on preview.. if you see it.. we will see it ...

with PB you can put multiple pix in one post .;..

ken

What perennials (including bulbs, grasses, ferns, etc., as well as traditional herbaceous perennials) do you all think should be used more often?

My list would include the following:

1. Many of the so-called minor bulbs like winter aconites, snowdrops, puschkinia, Corydalis solida, hepatica and wood anemones (Anemone nemorosa and A. ranunculoides). It is hard to obtain viable, good quality stock of these plants but they can be spectacular once growing and multiplying.
2. Erythroniums
3. Trilliums of all types
4. Ranunculus aconitifolius 'Flore Pleno' aka Fair Maids of France
5. Natives like Mertensia virginica, Stylophorum diphyllum, Geranium maculatum, Phlox divaricata, Phlox stolonifera, Uvularia grandiflora and spring beauties (Claytonia virginica)
6. Native alliums like A. cernuum and A. stellatum as well as rhizomatous hybrids like 'Milennium'.
7. Lycoris
8. Native, shade-loving, fall asters like Aster divaricatus and A. cordifolius.
9. Martagon lilies
10. Anemone 'Honorine Jobert', probably my favorite fall perennial.
11. Smaller narcissus like Narcissus pseudonarcissus and 'W. P. Milner' (the latter opens pale lemon yellow and then slowly fades to creamy, silvery, glowing white). Both of these are shorter than most daffodils and have foliage that is far less conspicuous than the larger types.
12. Hosta plantaginea. Perhaps it is too elegant to be taken seriously as a "real" hosta, lol?
13. Pasqueflowers (Pulsatilla).

So that is my baker's dozen. What other treasures would you add?

Phlox subulata often looks better if you shear it right after it blooms. Then it flushes with new green growth that looks pretty good the rest of the season.

Instead of eliminating such great plants from your list, I'd try to find out why such strong perennials won't grow for you.

So...

I normally don't water plants. My attitude is deal with whatever Mother Nature is dlivering. My astilbe does not get that treatment. Last August it was extremely hot and dry. During the worst of it, I watered my astilbe every single day (and I'm talking a half gallon of water, slowly poured into the base).

Penstemon. Man, I love penstemon. But I have clay soil. So to plant them, I literally dug out a huge hole, threw a hadful of river stone in the bottom of the planting hole and then mixed the clay with half again as much sand. I then mulched with more river rock. Pretty back breaking all in all.

But my Penstemon Red Riding Hood has come back two years in a row, more gorgeous and full each year. Have a picture!

Some of my favorite connoisseur plants:

Dodecatheon meadia
Gillenia trifoliata
Orienpet/OT lilies
Martagon lilies (species and hybrids)
Dictamnus
Lycoris (squamigera, chinensis, sprengeri, longituba)
Cephalaria gigantea
Geranium pratense 'Violaceum Plenum'
Crambe maritima

All of the above can take 2-3 seasons to really start showing what they are capable of Also, nothing in my world says "class" better than naturalized minor bulbs.

The Itoh peonies are fabulous! I planted 'Bartzella' this spring but, of course, it hasn't done much yet ;-)

These puppies are long-lived as far as I can tell and TOUGH plants, I've had the same clumps the entire time I've been at this house, 13 years. "They" say you shouldn't move them because of the tap root...pfffttt - I've moved mine around the yard so many times I can't even count and like I said, they're still going...

@rouge21, I'm not sure why I thought that. I remember reading about someone else here who was sceptical and asked the question, but I've read in some places that it's hardy to zone 4. My tag says zone 5. Regardless I think I will be ok, although I lost my beloved Harvest Moon - it never came back this year.

Here it is, it was a small plant that never really grew as big as the pink ones but it stood out so gracefully from everything around it. RIP, Harvest Moon.

This plant blooms over and over. I'm impressed that it is constantly in bloom. I've never seen a Penstemon bloom so long. It does get floppy, but this was a first year plant and I'm still impressed. I will be planting more of these. It's so easily rooted in a glass of water near a window!

The mix I use is available on the net for $36 per quart bottle but you can easily mix it yourself. Since I use it every season for the small amount that manages to come into the atrium from outside I make it up one quart at a time but that quart bottle will last me 2 seasons and I've got tons of plants.

Be sure you mix it in advance and then use a small amount to make up a one gallon sprayer. Be sure and mix thoroughly. A small bottle of Pyrethrin can be bought in a farm store for under $6 and will last for 10 years. A bottle of Canola oil (one quart) is less than $2. Mix about one tablespoon of the Pyrethrin into the entire bottle of Canola oil and shake well every time you use it.

Put a couple of Tablespoons of the concentrate in a one gallon sprayer and mix it with warm water. Shake well as you spray. Mark your bottle well so you don't cook with it! When I make up a quart it will last more than two seasons in my atrium. I use the same stuff if I see anything suspicious. The oil and Pyrethrin make it impossible for an insect to breathe and it will die in minutes.

The entire spray mix will vanish into the atmosphere in an hour or two leaving no serious trace.

I know tons of members of the aroid society that use this with great success but if you prefer another method it is only presented as an option. If you choose to try it use it persistently until all chance of any living eggs is gone.

Steve

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Google of images of Eupatorium coelestinum

Terrance

Peonies are heavy feeders, and should be fed a couple of times during the year; I like Plant-Tone myself, but every so often I give mine a shot of non-organic 10-10-10.

Here is a link that might be useful: look at first picture

With any plants I figure I can't go wrong with the old iron horses, they've been around a long time for a reason whereas I'm generally fairly wary of new introductions.

If you get insect infestations - well, that's not the fault of the plant, it just is what it is and unfortunately it happens, so, yea - if coneflowers are a problem in that regard then perhaps you're better off with something else.

Must have tried to grow well over two dozen different types (species and hybrids).

The few that did survive and that are still doing well, after five or more years are: Penstemon barbatus 'Coccineus', P. digitalis 'Husker Red', P. hirsutus 'Pygmaeus', P. pinifolius and P. strictus.

I've put my general lack of success with penstemons down to our alkaline soil.

Here is a link that might be useful: Edelweiss Perennials

The picture is the cultivar Veronicastrum virginicum 'Fascination', that shows fasciation (flower spikes growing along a line rather than to a point).

One of the several things I like about this plant is the fact that the flower spikes (shape) apparently appeals to bees. Trimming off the central spike, after flowering, puts me right in the middle of the bees. They just do their thing and I do mine.

(It takes this long in great part due to its location ie it is in a very shady part of the garden...very shady)

So what plant was the last in your garden to finally give forth wonderful flowers?

I'll start.

Agastache heatwave, centranthus, dahlias and purple fountain grass. The agastache bloomed nonstop from july.

Eupatorium pink frost, veronica royal candles and coreopsis showstopper.

Stargazer lily, echinacea primadonna and helenium mardi gras

Eryngium big blue, double knockout rose and newly planted phlox nora leigh

Sedum dazzleberry, sedum autumn charm and gaillardia apricot

rouge21, It really is a great rose, isn't it? Really blooms it's head off and has the cleanest foliage. I do find it is not as fragrant as the David Austin Roses, so I like to have both, and the yellow roses on the 'Julia Child' are a little smaller. I would highly recommend it for anyone who wants to grow roses without spraying.

This post was edited by rouge21 on Sun, Jan 20, 13 at 6:04

BUT by mid to late August all of them were overrun by aphids...yuck. If there had been no infestation I would rate them as a perfect 10, I will give them another season hoping that first year infestation won't repeat.

This post was edited by rouge21 on Sun, Feb 24, 13 at 9:15

Once you upload your pictures to a site such as Photobucket, Flickr, etc, find their web address by right clicking on each image and copying the image location. Some sites may even provide your image's location address in a text box below the photo for your convenience.

Let's say, as an example, that the address of the picture you want to post is http://somepicturesite.com/yourpicture.jpg

To embed the picture into a post, use the command:
<img src="http://somepicturesite.com/yourpicture.jpg">

If your picture is too large to fit nicely into the text page, you can add a width attribute. The command with the width attribute would look something like:
<img src="http://somepicturesite.com/yourpicture.jpg" width=600>

Note that I had to use special characters to get the commands above to show up here without turning into pictures, but you can use them as shown (with the correct image web address, of course).

Using this technique, you can place multiple images right into your text post. This will make it much simpler for readers to find and view your pictures. Don't forget the width attribute if your pictures are large. That will keep the text and pictures much easier to view.

milk

Powdered milk may work. Coffee whitener did not work for me.

Nancy

1. "copy" the content of the THIRD BOX on photobucket. It's labeled HTML Code, and contains the letters IMG.
2. "paste" that content directly into your Message.

See photos below.

You can do your own sleuthing too though, put on a rain hat, go out after dark with a flashlight and look. If it's slugs, give them an individual spritz with 1 part household ammonia mixed with 3 parts water from a spray bottle, instantly dead and it won't hurt foliage.

Wear a glove and you can pick off weevils, crush.

Climbing cutworms are my caterpillar type foe here, I snip them in half with my oldest pruners.

All three, night feeders.

Ian

Here is a link that might be useful: how to post pix

Step 1 - Create an account on a photo hosting website. You need this to upload and store pictures you want to share. Many hosting sites are free to use - I'll use Photobucket as an example.

Step 2 - Uploading your photos. Click the green bar marked Upload now in Photobucket. You now have choices of where picture is coming from(most likely your computer) and where it will be stored(Album), click the green bar marked Select photos and videos.

A popup window with directories appears - locate and select the picture(s) you which to download and click Open. The files will start downloading -- when complete you can add a title and description if you wish -- Press Save and continue to my album

Step 3 - Copying your stored photo into your message. It is easier to do this if you have a couple of tabs open in your web browser - i.e. Hosta Forum with your message in one tab, Photobucket and your picture in a second tab. Click on photo you just uploaded - photo will get larger and 4 sets of code will appear - for GardenWeb you need the HTML code. Click on either HTML code or the actual line of code to its right -- you should have briefly seen "copied" appear. You can now switch to your message tab - move to the spot where you want photo to appear and paste the HTML code into your message.

Step 4 - Preview Message with Photo - If you see the photo when you preview your message - so will we when you submit the message. If you don't see you picture and instead see code - I'm guessing you didn’t copy the HTML code or deleted a character or more in the code -- review step 3 and correct.

If you want to add another photo - repeat step 3

Step 5 - Click Submit- You're done.

After you have added photos a few times to your messages - you will see what I meant by how easy it is.

Like any skill you learn - if you don't use it often, you forget. So post a photo once a week or month for awhile. If you're in a Southern Climate it is very important to begin posting as soon as your gardens emerge since us Northern States are still shivering and looking for our hosta fix early in the season. We will return the favor later in the season.

Paul

-----------------------------
Side Note - One way I make finding pictures easier to download is to first export them(copy) from my photo managing program(like Picasa) to the Desktop. Easier for me to find on Desktop - and remove copy once I am through with download.

Bunchberry
Doll's Eyes
Red Baneberry
Blue Cohosh
Trilliums (Red and white)
Jack-in-the-pulpit
DogTooth Violets
Wild Violets (purple and white)
Canadian Columbine
May Apple
Bloodroot
Pale Corydallis
Canadian Ginger
Solomon's Seal
False Solomon's Seal

Ferns that I have are:

Osterich
Royal
Cinnamon
Male
Lady
Maidenhair
Harts Tongue
Christmas
Sensitive
Japanese Painted (non-native)
Tatting (non-native)
Holly (non-native)
Autumn (non-native)

Hope that helps some.

Barb
southern Ontario, CANADA zone 6a

Here are some links to places that you can buy laboratory
raised plants that stand a much better chance of growing for you.

Cyp Haven

Sprangle Creek Labs

Vermont Lady Slipper

Hillside Nursery

cheers.

Flexiculis and caesia are for part shade to shade, not full sun, so be careful siting them.

Digging from private land without landowner consent is illegal, no matter how carefully you dig or what plant you take. You must ask the landowner for permission before trespassing to look for plants as well as for permission to dig and remove plants from the land.

Absolutely, a good reason to join. I have introduced many a gardener to native plants and enjoyed watching their interest in natives grow. By the way, we do have native Irises (as you probably know) and next time you could always point that out next time ("you really should see some of the native iris"). I have Iris cristata and Iris verna (such petite blooms!) and Iris fulva (Copper iris).

Here is a picture of my copper iris blooming for the first time this year:

I gave away about 30 seedlings and the rest have been growing in holding beds for 1-2 years. Full sun is a rare commodity in this yard and so are being planted into shrub borders in an open woodland situation - partial sun.

Here's some of the species I got -

Cornus racemosa / Gray Dogwood - these are growing GREAT, most are approx 3 feet tall already and a couple are 4! Can't wait to see the white berries.

Cornus alternifolia / alternate leaf Dogwood - also growing great, the only Dogwood with alternate leaves, the growth habit and shape of leaves are very elegant on this tree

Myrica pennsylvanica / Northern bayberry - can't say enough good things about these seedlings, very rugged and drought tolerant, the foliage is gorgeous, stays semi evergreen thru winter, berries on female plants

Amelanchier spp. / Serviceberry, seedlings are rugged, most had very nice fall color ranging from orange-red, and my older tree make delicious berries!

Sambucus canadensis / Elderberry - amazing growth in first year!! 4-5 feet tall. They are taking over the poor Serviceberries. Gotta move Amelanchier and thin these ASAP.

Viburnum lentago / Nannyberry - growing great, I will train most of these to a single trunk. Makes edible purple berries.

Corylus americana / American hazelnut - drought and shade tolerant. Nice range of fall colors. Edible nuts, supposedly the squirrels love them!

Rosa virginiana / Virginia rose - these are not growing too well, and are being eaten by something. Will move next Spring. Makes nice pink flowers and rose hips.

Below is a link for the flowers. Mine don't flower often, so maybe it takes certain conditions or maturity. I'm also in NC in the mountains, a bit further west than you.

Rattlesnake plaintains (Goodyera oblongifolia) are also commonly found in the same area as puttyroot.

Jeanne

Jeanne

Here is a link that might be useful: Puttyroot Orchid

Bowman's Wildflower Preserve (they're not showing 2010 info yet, but have had sales the other years I've looked):
http://www.bhwp.org

NJ Audubon Native Plant Sales (PA may have the equivalent)
http://www.njaudubon.org/SectionBackyardHabitat/WildlifePlantsforSale.aspx

I've bought at both Bowman's and one Audubon center and have been happy with the plants at both.

I also sometimes find more native plants than at a typical nursery at Master Gardener and arboretum sales.

Cranberry
Winterberry
Nannyberry
Serviceberry
Arrowwood Viburnum
Mulberry
Alternate Leaf Dogwood
Silky Dogwood

Hope that helps some...

Barb

Other interesting shade tolerant trees: bigleaf magnolia (Magnolia macrophylla), silverbell (Halesia tetraptera is found naturally in TN), snowbell (Styrax americanus and Styrax grandifolius both found in TN), red buckeye (Aesculus pavia)and of course there are many shrubs that can be considered small trees in the understory.

Colors of berries:

japanese honeysuckle - dark blue berries
decumaria barbara/wood vamp - brown seeds, not berries
wild rose - red "hips"
poison ivy - white berries
cat brier - blue berries, green stems
Virginia creeper - blue berries

Pm - if you look underneath the foliage you'll see teenee-tiny light green caterpillars - these tiny guys can skeletonize a rose bush nearly overnite!!! They don't touch the blossoms - last season 2 of my KOs were full of blossoms completely undressed of foliage. Daily dousing of the formula took care of the bushes - very soon Rose bushes were normal again!

Whaass if you asked the nursery they sell you a spray bottle of insecticidal soap = at least 10 to 13 $$. A bottle goes very fast!!!

Hs - I don't think it's that difficult - my dil's were badly curled, dousing daily got to the culprits & took care of the problem! Try it you might like it ... saves $$!

Took care of Sawfly caterpils' attack on my roses & Earwigs hiding in foliage folds as well!
Good luck!

Strawberry Bush (Euonymus americanus)
Oakleaf Hydrangea (Hydrangea quercifoia)
Spicebush (Lindera bezoin)
Ninebark (Physocarp. opulifolius)
Piedmont Azalea (Rhododend. canescens)
Pinxterbloom Azalea (Rhod. periclymenoides)
American Bladdernut (Staphylea trifolia)
Farkleberry (Vaccinium arboreum)
Arrowwood Viburnum (Viburnum dentatum)

Heres a start for the flowers

White Baneberry (Actea pachypoda)
Wild Columbine (Aquilegia canadensis)
Jack-in-the-pulpit (Arisaema triphyllum)
Wild Ginger (Asarum canadense)
Wild Geranium (Geranium maculatum)
Alumroot (Heuchera americana)
Crested Iris (Iris cristata)
Cardinal Flower (Lobelia cardinalis)
Wild Blue Phlox (Phlox divaricata)
Jacob's Ladder
Solomon's Seal (Smilacina racemosa)
Solomon's Plume (Smilacina racemosa)
Wreath Goldenrod (Solidago caesia)
Foamflower (Tiarella cordifolia )

Many people have different likes and dislikes to one what might be pretty another ewwww lol. Try a search for native shade garden. I know I went to the usda site and did a search on plants just in my area it pulled up a database of 13,000 plants. Try even a search like tennessee native plant list of course use your state see what you get. Enjoy and happy gardening.

Also, hollies are wonderful for attracting all sorts of birds. And they serve as a cover for wildlife. Serviceberry, (amelanchier spp) is another. Also known as downy shadblow or shadbush, these can be small trees or large shrubs and they attract a variety of wildlife. Other shrubs include buttonbush> cephalanthus occidentalis, blackhaw viburnum> viburnum prunifolium, mountain laurel> kalmia latifolia, rhododendron spp. and azalea.

I have virginia creeper growing into a large white pine that produces small grape-like berries in the fall and crimson foliage. It does tend to pop up around the yard from time to time but I haven't found it to be a major problem. The berries are loved by many birds.

There are many others but these are a few that will tolerate shade and all of these are native with the exception of (most) rhodies and azalea's.

Btw, spicebush attracts; great crested flycatcher, eastern kingbird, Swainson's thrust, hermit thrush, gray cheeked thrush, veery, red eyed vireo's, white eyed vireo and white throated sparrow. It's a larval source for spicebush swallowtail and tiger swallowtail. (that info was taken from "Gardening for the Birds" written by Thomas Barnes. A wonderful and informative book on attracting and feeding wildlife.)

Good luck~

Aronia arbutifolia and melanocarpa (chokecherries)
Clethra alnifolia (summersweet)
Gaultheria procumbens (wintergreen, teaberry)
Vaccinium corymbosum, macrocarpon
shrub dogwoods
various viburnums
Mitchella reptans (partridgeberry)

Here is a link that might be useful: MidAtlantic Native Plants bibliography

http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/f/fotgar/fotgar1.html

Anyway, there are no Catbirds here this year so I have been able to eat lots of the fruit myself. Last year the Catbirds just about camped out in the Serviceberry Shrubs and would eat the berries all day long as they ripened.

Fruit on the Grandiflora is not ripe yet but I did eat some fruit off the Honeywood Serviceberry. It does taste slightly different from the Regent and not quite as big. I like the Regent better. Really, I think Regents are the best of the shrub Serviceberries and they only grow about 6 feet tall so never get too big. They set an amazing amount of fruit and start at an early age.

Yield so little seed:

V. x burkwoodii actually hails from England, derived from the fine work of Mssrs. Burkwood and Skipwith early in the last century. It is a hybrid of V. carlesii and V. utile (which are Asian), and was selected for vigor, fragrance, and semi-evergreen character depending on what zone you garden in. This is a perfectly good plant for the bones of any garden, and that's all I'll say about it (since this is the native plants forum).

For the original question, big plants that grow quickly and fruit heavily for feathered friends would include:

•V. dentatum - arrowwood is the most rewarding shrub that requires the least work. There are over 25 different clones available for fall color, fresh foliage, fine flowering, fantastic fruiting, form...

•V. rufidulum - the rusty blackhaw rewards the gardener with lustrous substantial foliage and great fall color, on top of copious bloom and heavy fruiting. This is a small tree, and can be grown multi-stemmed if desired.

•V. prunifolium - blackhaw appears nearly the same plant as rusty blackhaw, differing mainly in the coloration of the dormant buds, timing of bloom, and less glossy foliage. It is another small tree that can be grown multi-stemmed.

•V. nudum - Raisin viburnum (this really needs a better common name) is a versatile big shrub with glossy summer foliage, tons of flowers, fruit that proceeds through an incredible range of colors before finally settling on a deep blue at maturity, and tremendous persistent fall color. 'Winterthur' is the most common clone available. Since one should always plant multiple related individuals (not solely one clone) in order to achieve best fruiting, look for others like 'Brandywine', 'Earth Shade', etc. so that cross-pollination is maximized.

With these four native species, you can create a 12 week flowering sequence (mid-spring to early summer) as well as a really long period of fruiting for birds and your enjoyment.

Except for the few species that have shown some invasive tendencies (notably V. dilatatum in the mid-Atlantic region), I'd venture to take a go at almost any viburnum you come across to increase your collection.

You are just completely wrong about "any male winterberry will pollinate any female winterberry", and you shouldn't distribute such misinformed opinions on this public website to less knowledgeable participants.

Despite your opinion about signs at many garden centers, the timing of bloom of certain named selections of Ilex verticillata (as well as the bloom times of genetically dissimilar provenances of Winterberry Holly) is based on science and solid observations of many learned growers of this species, and is well-documented and published.

Do a Google search for Simpson Nursery, and study the bloom chart. You will find that there is quite a spread in the actual bloom times for selections like 'Early Male' (in which 'Jim Dandy' fits), 'Apollo', and 'Southern Gentleman'. The newer selections like 'Skipjack', 'Rhett Butler', and 'Johnny Come Lately' all fit within the grand scheme of bloom times.

I am growing all of these, as well as many of the female selections of Ilex verticillata. I can vouch for the varying of bloom times.

At your peril (meaning, the missing out on pollination of your hollies and lack of subsequent fruit) will you listen to the un- or misinformed statements of participants here who obviously do not have the proper experience to make these statements.

The male and female plants must have overlapping bloom times in order for the insects that visit the flowers and move the pollen to successfully perform the pollinating activity. It is NOT magic.

'Red Sprite' blooms with 'Jim Dandy', 'Early Male', 'Skipjack', and may overlap with 'Apollo'. I think terratoma can expect success with these combinations. 'Southern Gentleman' and 'Johnny Come Lately' will NOT be appropriate to pair with 'Red Sprite'.

Am. Robins and Red-wing blackbirds nest in the area. I can very well imagine the juvenile robins (which are presently helping themselves crazy in the serviceberry tree!) trying clumsily to perch then breaking the twigs off.

But I wonder if this weakness of the plant is normal or a sign that something is wrong with it? A deficiency of some sort?

It it were but for the fruits, but those branches also bear new leaf sets, and I am a little worried about the growth rate of this screening plant.

There's a long list of shade tolerant shrubs and an even longer one if in a zone that will include more broadleaved evergreens. Yews, boxwood, fothergilla, itea, euonymus fortunei, various viburnums, rhodies and azaleas, daphne, clethra, leucothoe, kerria, hydrangeas, Japanese dappled willow, shrub dogwoods.......etc. Not all of these are necessarily dense by nature to begin with but they certainly won't become any more leggy in a shady position.