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RE: Storage behind backsplash ? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: malhgold on 11.13.2009 at 07:34 pm in Kitchens Forum

Is this something like what you're talking about?

Here is a link that might be useful: Sliding Backsplash Panels


trash solution+sliding backsplash panels
clipped on: 11.14.2009 at 10:24 pm    last updated on: 11.14.2009 at 10:27 pm

RE: Advice on moving back into new kitchen, please (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: plllog on 09.21.2009 at 09:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

Buehl, Bless you for being a kind and grateful daughter-in-law!!

I'm not a freak out kind of person, except when it comes to finding stuff. Maybe it's because I have too much stuff (I admit to sometimes being something of a magpie), but when things are in the wrong drawer I lose it a little (not when anyone is watching, usually).

Dancingcook, I think you have a good system going! If there's nothing pushing you out of the basement kitchen, you can bring things up with getting too tired to think about where you want them, and do everything in a considered way. It's also easier to wash anything that was stored somewhere dusty if you only have a little bit to get through.

Other than the zones, and the whole philosophy of mise en place (things in their correct place for efficient cooking), I don't know what advice could help. Here's my basic list (though I'm not in yet) in case you can use it. The list is purposefully general and implies "and stuff like that":

1. Fridge/MW Zone: Kitchen dishes, flatware and glasses. Bread, cereal, cookies, dried fruit.

2. Cook Zone: Pots, stirrers, meat fork, spatulas, slotted spoon, wooden spoons, splatter screens, etc. Grab while cooking herb shakers (Italian Herb, Lemon Pepper, etc.), Wondra, olive oil, salt. Immersion blender.

3. Prep Zone: Colander, mixing bowls, ramekins, custard dishes, etc., as well as knives, whisks, and specialty tools. Cutting boards.

4. Baking Zone: Scrapers, pastry blender, pastry cutter, etc. Staples (flour, sugar, etc.) and spices. Baking pans and cooling racks. Mixer and attachments.

5. Clean-up Zone: Wraps and bags, containers, dishwashing and kitchen surface cleaning supplies, cutting board oil, sponges, tea towels.

Small cooking appliances go under the ovens (crock pot, waffle iron) and oven racks go above.

I have a separate area for most of my entertaining supplies, but those are things that by definition are less used, so they are got to put in wherever they fit once the things you need to be convenient are situated.

Enjoy your new kitchen!!


clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 09:34 am    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 09:34 am

RE: Morton5- your 'small' disposal? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: morton5 on 09.21.2009 at 03:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

Thanks, westsider and owls4me! The prep sink disposal was purchased at Home Depot, and is a Badger 1/3 HP model 1-83. Badger is Insinkerator's less expensive line. I think the Insinkerator might be a tad larger because of its metal housing. The Insinkerator may have worked with my under-sink-pullout set-up, but I was focused on finding the smallest compactor possible to maximize the chances of having room for everything I wanted. The Badger has worked just fine so far, but as owls quoted, it gets light use.


clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 09:24 am    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 09:24 am

RE: Counter Depth Confused ??? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: buehl on 09.20.2009 at 02:48 am in Kitchens Forum

What we recommend doing here, is "building in" the refrigerator. This makes the refrigerator look built-in and hides the sides...whether the refrigerator is surrounded by cabinetry or not. Some people surround the refrigerator by walls and then mount the cabinet above b/w the walls. However, I think it looks much more finished to use finished end panels even if the refrigerator is surrounded by walls. But, that's my personal opinion. Here's how to do it:

  • Surround the refrigerator on both sides with 3/4" finished end panels that are as deep as the refrigerator carcass/box + the distance b/w the back wall & the back of the refrigerator.
    • This "distance" in the back is the amount of room behind the refrigerator needed for air clearance, anti-tilt mechanism, plug, and/or plumbing for ice maker & ice/water dispenser. This hides the sides but does not interfere with door hinge operation.
    • The finished end panels are "flat" or plain panels that are the same wood and have the same finish as your cabinets. (You can put fake doors on top of the finished end panels if your refrigerator is at the end of a run or is "stand alone" with one or two fully exposed sides.)

  • Next, mount a full-depth cabinet above the refrigerator and b/w the two end panels.
    • When I say "full-depth", I mean the depth of the refrigerator carcass.
    • If you cannot afford or cannot get a full-depth cabinet for above the refrigerator, then take a standard depth over the refrigerator cabinet (usually 12" deep) and pull it forward so it's mounted flush with the front of the end panels. You won't have the advantage of deep storage, but you'll still have the visual advantage of looking full-depth.

As an example:
  • My refrigerator's carcass is 24-1/8" deep.
  • The back of the refrigerator is right around 1-7/8" forward of the back wall.
  • This means the distance b/w the back wall and the front of the refrigerator carcass is approx 26" (24-1/8 + 1-7/8).
  • The end panels surrounding my refrigerator are, therefore, 26" deep.
  • The doors of my refrigerator stick out another 4-3/8". So, the depth of my refrigerator box and doors but w/o handles is 28-1/2".
  • The door handles stick out yet another 2-5/8", bringing the total depth of my refrigerator to 31-1/8".
  • The cabinet above my refrigerator is 36" wide x 24" deep.

Here are some pictures that tell the story of building in a refrigerator:

(1) 26" deep finished end panel is the depth of the refrigerator carcass + gap b/w refrigerator & back wall.

The 26" finished end panel covers the entire black side of the refrigerator plus the gap behind the refrigerator. It looks much more finished this way.

(2) Finished end panel all the way to the floor on the side w/cabinets

(3) 26" Finished end panel on the side of the refrigerator against the wall

Even though there's a wall next to the refrigerator, we still put in a finished end panel. I think it looks more finished with the end panel on both sides rather than just one. Additionally, the wall is only about 24" deep. While this means we didn't need filler to allow the doors to open fully, it also meant it would not quite cover the black sides of the the 26" deep end panel covers the couple of inches that would have otherwise shown beyond the wall.

(4) Finished end panel all the way to the floor on the side w/the wall

(5) Full-depth cabinet above the refrigerator

Note there are several inches of filler b/w the top of the refrigerator and the cabinet above. This will allow me to put in a taller refrigerator in the future. It gives me some wiggle room height-wise. The alcove itself is 36" wide and should fit all future 36" wide refrigerators.

Some people put in a piano hinge door that swings up where the filler is over my refrigerator. It's a great idea that I had difficulty getting my Contractor to do, so I let this one slide. If you do put in a door like that, it gives you a place to store platters, flat baskets, or other things that are long and shallow.

(6) Full view from right front of "built-in" refrigerator

(7) Full view of "built-in" refrigerator


clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 09:04 am    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 09:22 am

RE: Apples to apples for comparing cabinet prices (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: sweeby on 06.19.2008 at 02:00 pm in Kitchens Forum

That sounds so reasonable.

And while it certainly can't hurt, I'm not optomistic that it will help much because when it comes to "apples to apples", I don't think there are many vendors who sell "generic apples" (in other words, where even the same standardized cabinet is completely comparable), or many kitchens that are made up overwhelmingly of "generic apple" cabinets. And, as you correctly point out, it's the "zinger" cabinets (and inserts, trim, molding, special sizes, finish upgrades, island parts, and glass doors) that drive up the price of the total kitchen.

When my initial whole-kitchen cabinet quote came in too high, I had a BUNCH of options:

- Switch to another cabinet line (the question you're addressing, no?)
- Drop a few of my custom-size modifications (in Brand K, this saved a LOT of mopney; but in Brand M, the upcharge for special sizes wasn't much at all)
- Drop my special inserts (A big savings all around)
- Switch to a plainer molding (again, very different cost savings between brands -- and very different moldings also)
- Drop the light-rail (But some cabinets had ugly bottoms, so you really needed a light rail for them.)
- Switch to a cheaper door style. But only THREE door styles out of the 50 or so offered by each brand were TRULY comparable: Slab, plain Shaker and simple butt-end Raised Panel.
- Switch from 5-piece to plain drawer fronts on the top drawers.
- Drop the "free hardware" (which may not really be free at all!)
- Eliminate the glazing (Saves 10% here, 15% there, but 20% on those doors...)
- Change the species of wood to one that's not an upgrade.
- Buy my island parts elsewhere (Big Savings)
- Switch to particle board sides and/or shelves.
- Go back to non-self-closing, non-full-extension drawer slides.
- Change my flush-finished ends to attached door-panel ends, or all the way down to 'stained to match' ends.
- Eliminate the interior-finishing and beadboard on my glass-door cabinet.
- Cut the distressing.
- Change my layout to fewer larger cabinets from a few more smaller cabinets (I good idea for space, not just cost).
- Live with a 'dead corner' instead of a corner base cabinet.
- Change some drawer bases to regular door bases.

Bottom line - I'm afraid there are just too many moving pieces to be able to get meaningful comparisons based on a standardized unit...


clipped on: 06.20.2008 at 01:20 pm    last updated on: 06.20.2008 at 01:20 pm

RE: 24'' sink...too small??? (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: kailleanm on 04.04.2008 at 06:53 pm in Kitchens Forum

Venice - we used a 24" Ikea cabinet. No notching was necessary.

The link below will show the dimensions of my sink (purchased on Ebay). Space below is limited, largely because the sink itself is 10" deep. I modified my cabinet door to be a pullout, which makes access much easier.

Under my sink, I'm able to store my garbage can, a 12" square bucket filled with cleaning supplies, as well as a few other bottles of cleaners, etc. It's adequate for my needs.


Here is a link that might be useful: Sink on Ebay


clipped on: 04.04.2008 at 09:47 pm    last updated on: 04.04.2008 at 09:47 pm

RE: Custom doors for IKEA cabinets? Has anyone done this? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: linley1 on 02.17.2008 at 11:34 am in Kitchens Forum

I've been looking into going this route as well since I'd like to do a more traditional door style. I've run across a few examples online with pictures and or details of using custom doors with Ikea cabinets.

A contemporary kitchen with custom walnut doors.

This message has pictures and pricing information on another kitchen with custom doors.

Nice blog post about using custom doors from Scherrs with lots of details.

Discussion of custom doors on Ikeafans

List of alternative door suppliers and some pricing info re: Scherrs


clipped on: 02.17.2008 at 05:09 pm    last updated on: 02.17.2008 at 05:10 pm

RE: egress window (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: guy_exterior_man on 07.30.2007 at 07:41 am in Windows Forum

The building code states you must have a minimum net clear opening of 5.7 sqft in any habitable space (above or below ground) and every sleeping room. There is also an exception which many people are unaware of that states you only need 5.0 sqft for a window that sits on a grade level. If your window sits on a grade level you can get by with a smaller size. You'll have to check with your local building code to see if this is acceptable in your area though. The windows I sell have a slider that has a unit size of 48 1/2" wide by 43 1/2" tall that meets the 5.7 sqft. It can go even smaller if the window is on ground level. From what it sounds like in your post, you must live in a split level house that has a lower level which isn't completely under ground level. If I'm understanding you properly it sounds like your only half way under ground with a look out view at ground level. If so, you can go with a smaller window size and not have to dig out to accommodate the new opening. Trying to find a window that is 36" or under in height may be difficult.

Just make sure you check with your local inspector to make sure. It's also very important to make sure the ground level is far enough under the window opening to prevent water leakage. Make sure you grade beneath the window in case you have torrential rains and the ground saturates. You don't want water rolling in that opening to your basement floor. That would make things much worse. Hope this helped and good luck!!!


clipped on: 02.04.2008 at 07:01 pm    last updated on: 02.04.2008 at 07:02 pm

work in progress - before/after pics (contemporary)

posted by: sojay on 12.22.2007 at 06:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here are some pics from before and almost after of my cosmetic upgrade.
Before: (previous owners)

After a coat of paint and some new applicances while deciding on a color scheme:

After painting the cabinets, new handles, almost done with replacing the suspended ceiling tiles with bamboo laminate, and veneering the cabinets on the island with the same bamboo:

An overview:

I haven't finished doing the ceiling tiles. I'll have to order some more bamboo, since I had only ordered for the ceiling and thought I'd try to experiment with laminating some of the cabs. It was easier than I dared expect, although a couple need to be redone, since I was too stingy on the glue.

I decided on this color scheme with the bamboo on the island and the ceiling to tie together the bamboo floor in the living room and the wood panelling in the small adjacent den or whatever you want to call it.

same view before:

I liked the crispness of the black cabs, but was afraid it would be too dark in this kitchen which doesn't have a lot of daylight. The upper cabs I painted white to make them almost fade into the white walls. I love when there are no upper cabs, but needed the storage, so white on white was my compromise.

Also the somewhat dated way of positioning the wall oven on an angle in the corner was something I came to terms with as being OK after a lot of attempts at reconfiguring, but that would have busted my budget. So I tried to camouflage the vertical lines with the horisontal lines of the rows of black and white cabinets. And the narrow very red wall is instead the vertical focal point.


Also I changed the lighting from flourescent to halogen. It took me some major soul searching to do the opposite of what is politically correct, but even with the special spectrum flourescent bulbs, the quality of light with the halogens makes a major difference, plus I could put dimmers on.


Another view:

I didn't replace the black dishwasher as it still works fine, but now I don't know when it will be time to replace it whether I should NOT get a stainless steel one, but stay with black, as it blends in nicely with the cabs.


Now my next project will be to remove the clunky breakfast table so I can panel the last side of the island. I plan to put a height adjustable table on wheels in that place. One that can be at table height or counter height and positioned either butted out from the window wall, along the window wall or against the island, depending on function. I've got the special table legs already, just need to make the table top.

That brings me to the counter top. The sink area needs to undergo so changes. I've bought a wonderful Danze faucet and a Ticor square sink, and am making a concrete table top and concrete backsplash. But that'll be another month or so till it's installed.
This is the color I plan to do, although considerably paler: (acid stain on white cement)

The color will tie in with the bamboo and add another earthy element to counter balance the urban crispness of the black and steel. What do you think? Too much orange? I think the while counters look OK, but dislike corian and eventually I want to change out the counter on the island also.

A couple more views:

I'd really like to unclutter a bit more, but it's so hard to do, as I need most of the countertop appliances and the utensils in the canisters all the time. I cook a lot.

I would have loved to advance the sink cabs to the fridge front and make the fridge look built-in, but a) the aisle between sink and island is too narrow, and b) I like using the side of the fridge for magnet stuff.
Hopefully one day I'll have the budget for a sleek new hood also, but for now, this will have to do.

Lastly, I want to thank you all for being so helpful.


clipped on: 01.30.2008 at 12:18 am    last updated on: 01.30.2008 at 12:19 am

RE: Anyone have a cabinet to store a step ladder? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: rmkitchen on 11.18.2007 at 10:25 pm in Kitchens Forum

I wonder if evergreendan's is the one you remember seeing:

It's in the gallery section. I'm pretty sure the stepladder is from Williams-Sonoma, like cat_mom's.


clipped on: 01.17.2008 at 08:07 pm    last updated on: 01.17.2008 at 08:07 pm

RE: Can I see your message centers? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: saskatchewan_girl on 11.12.2007 at 06:59 pm in Kitchens Forum

This idea isn't mine but something I found long ago while "googling". This would work if you have limited space.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


clipped on: 01.13.2008 at 03:36 am    last updated on: 01.13.2008 at 03:36 am

RE: Counter Height Windows Love them? Hate them? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: alku05 on 08.24.2007 at 04:53 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's mine:

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I really like the windows at counterheight, especially behind the sink (more room!).


clipped on: 01.12.2008 at 10:23 pm    last updated on: 01.12.2008 at 10:24 pm

RE: Appliance Garage (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: holligator on 01.06.2008 at 10:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

My favorite "appliance garage" (just in case you haven't seen it) is julie7549's. I wonder if you could make a cabinet like this one so you don't need the slide out? Here it is closed and open:

And here's the whole thread with other pics of her gorgeous kitchen: julie7549's gorgeous kitchen


clipped on: 01.07.2008 at 02:02 am    last updated on: 01.07.2008 at 10:03 pm

RE: Sad - Mistakes showing up (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: igloochic on 10.31.2007 at 02:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

One good that comes from our bad mistake with cabinets is that the cabinet I'd planned for our main dish storage will be changed in the new order. I had some fancy wine cubbies added to the bottom of the cabinet. If that would have stayed I wouldn't have been able to reach the cabinet easily. Six inches dosen't seem like much, but it really is :)

I did go with 15" uppers instead of 12" deep. It makes it so much easier to reach things when leaning over the counters. I also took the cabinets to the ceiling and I can't reach over shelf two :o) But that's why god made stools right? I wanted the storage, height be danged!

You can hang your cabinets out a couple inches and trim out the gaps with fillers. You wouldn't even noice them and you'd find that the 18" high issue won't matter at all. You just nail (or screw...I'm not the carpenter) a two by four (or whatever size you want) to the studs and then hang the cabinets on those. Our lower cabinets on one run are done this way so that our cabinets bump out to the range debth.


clipped on: 01.04.2008 at 01:32 pm    last updated on: 01.04.2008 at 01:32 pm

RE: wall oven dilemma - miele, dacor, electrolux, or ge monogram (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: rococogurl on 12.30.2007 at 12:29 pm in Appliances Forum

The wall ovens which are consistently well reviewed on this board include the Miele, GE Monogram, Fisher & Paykel and Gaggenau.

Suggest you read the various Dacor threads before going there.


clipped on: 01.04.2008 at 09:48 am    last updated on: 01.04.2008 at 09:48 am

RE: Care to share your best kitchen storage ideas? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: lascatx on 07.28.2007 at 10:51 pm in Kitchens Forum

I love the Ikea ideas. We talked about doing something similar but decided on a 12" tall cabinet. We put an outlet on the side for charging a hand vac and flashlight. We are putting a set of hooks for keys and hooks for the dog leashes on the side. I will probably put a small note board onthe inside of the door. There is room for a step ladder -- important with cabinets to 10 ft ceilings, a broom and dustpan. For now, the mop is staying outside and that seems okay.

I would really look for a way to incorporate a space for a broom and dustpan in the kitchen. I was so tired of having to run outside tothe garage or trip over laundry on the floor (that's probably my next project -- solve the laundry room issues) and to the far end of my laundry room to get a broom. If you make things easier to use, you will use them more easily, more happily and more often.


clipped on: 12.30.2007 at 11:54 pm    last updated on: 12.30.2007 at 11:54 pm

RE: What do you wish you had done differently? (Follow-Up #131)

posted by: plinker on 12.24.2007 at 06:12 pm in Kitchens Forum

I would not have purchased a counter depth, 36 inch refrigerator. I would have splurged and purchased a 42-48 inch refrigerator. The counter depth Jenn-Air French model is much to small and I am sick about it.


clipped on: 12.30.2007 at 10:52 pm    last updated on: 12.30.2007 at 10:52 pm

RE: What do you wish you had done differently? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: livingthedream on 07.29.2007 at 11:34 pm in Kitchens Forum

I wish I had made the refrigerator compartment deep enough for a regular fridge rather than counter-depth.

If we had pulled out the lower cabs and made the counter two or three inches deeper, we'd have been able to have deeper uppers as well. That wouldn't have cost a lot extra, and then we'd have saved hundreds on the fridge -- and gotten more space to boot.


clipped on: 12.30.2007 at 10:32 pm    last updated on: 12.30.2007 at 10:32 pm

RE: To Advantium or not to Advantium..... (Follow-Up #76)

posted by: chipshot on 12.27.2007 at 03:10 pm in Appliances Forum

Is the Kenmore speedcook oven (link below) essentially a re-badged Advantium?

How messy do 240V Advantium interiors get when cooking meats? Are they more difficult to clean than conventional microwave ovens?

Here is a link that might be useful: Kenmore Speedcook Oven


clipped on: 12.27.2007 at 05:41 pm    last updated on: 12.27.2007 at 05:42 pm

RE: Help-Decision time (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: shoshanadh on 12.26.2007 at 11:09 am in Kitchens Forum

Thanks all. Keep 'em coming. Conate -yes it is an L-shape layout but with the oven on the long leg and the sink/dishwasher against the far wall. My appliance choices right now include the Fagor 24" refrigerator (which will be sunk into the wall on the left(we're taking space from the bedroom closet), a GE 18" DW, Miele 24" wall oven below either the Dive 24" or LG 30" induction cooktop (no gas in the building). We're going to have a shallow, between-stud cabinet on one wall (next to the refrigerator) for glassware and a drop-down narrow (12") "counter" below it although I may replace those with a pot rack. I change my mind every five minutes.


clipped on: 12.27.2007 at 03:32 pm    last updated on: 12.27.2007 at 03:32 pm

RE: Care to share your best kitchen storage ideas? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: dianalo on 07.28.2007 at 10:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

I copied the following from the IKEA fans website a few months back. I love the ingenuity...
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

So now you can tell your contractor it does not take a lot of space to make a broom closet, lol.


clipped on: 12.24.2007 at 10:17 pm    last updated on: 12.24.2007 at 10:18 pm

RE: Do you like your appliance garage? What do you keep in there (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: montalvo on 10.30.2007 at 08:31 pm in Kitchens Forum

We have two appliance garages, side-by-side, enclosed by tambour doors. The expected use was to house a toaster oven and although we found one that fit, it was a piece of junk that couldn't hold a temperature. So we use one to house a coffee maker, filters, etc. and the other to house our assortment of breakfast cereals. We only use the coffee maker when we have guests as our primary one is in the master bath. So in summary, our garages would have been just as well suited with an upper cabinet that came all the way down to the counter. Fortunately, we have a very large pantry where we store most of our appliances and the mixer is in a base cabinet with a spring-hoist.

With tambour doors, you have to ensure that the base of your electrical outlet plate is just level with the countertop. Otherwise, the top of the tambour door will descend down and cover the outlets when the door is in the raised position.


clipped on: 12.22.2007 at 12:27 pm    last updated on: 12.22.2007 at 12:27 pm