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RE: Are double sinks a waste of space? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: mongoct on 06.17.2007 at 04:23 pm in Bathrooms Forum

You can see from the replies that the answer is up to you.

How you and your spouse get along, how the two of your groom, are you compatible in terms of cleanliness, will you both be needing exclusive use of the sink at the same time, etc.

I'm along the same lines as you. I always thought I'd have two sinks in my master bathroom.

My bath is spacious enough...around 250 sqft or so...but we realized that for us, a second sink would be a waste of money, a waste of counterspace, and use-wise, we both prefered one large sink over two smaller ones.

I'm not a slob, neither is my wife. When we use the bath together, there's no conflict.

In our case, after the decision was made to go with one sink my original thought was to add a sit-down area for my wife. She didn't want that, as she prefers to primp while standing.

So on the sink wall, I have a floor-to-ceiling closet at the near end of the picture, then a 6'long countertops with a single large sink, then a tall 48" cabinet at the end of the run to hide the toilet. The top drawer of the 48" tall cabinet has outlets in it, so she keeps her curling iron/blow dryer permanently plugged in. The bottom drawer in the 48" cabinet is almost like a pull-out pantry, it's divided in two vertically. The sink side is sort of like her medicine cabinet, the toilet side holds TP, toilet cleaning supplies, etc.

In the end, she's thrilled with how it looks and how it "works".

I'm happy as I saved $$ by not having to do a second sink and faucet, and that I was able to build the cabinets for "smart storage", in terms of everything being in a logical place.


Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


clipped on: 04.11.2008 at 01:23 pm    last updated on: 04.11.2008 at 01:26 pm

RE: Are double sinks a waste of space? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: mongoct on 06.17.2007 at 10:18 pm in Bathrooms Forum


The wall is load bearing and capped by a beam. The vent from the toilet stack comes out of the wall, into the bath , and around the beam.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

ABOVE: You can see by the pic that the soffit is, shall we say...just big enough to hide the vent above the toilet. Hah!

The reason I made it so large was to create a bit of balance between the top of the closet on the far left and what would have otherwise been a miniscule soffit over the toilet on the far right. See the pic below.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

I brought the pillar down from the soffit to the teak countertop on top of the 48" tall cabinet that's just to the left of the toilet to balance things out on the wall. It makes the left sconce the same distance from the left closet as the right sconce is from the pillar on the right.

So yeah, it's overkill. But in person, when you can see the entire room, it looks nice. It makes everything to the left and to the right of the central sink feel balanced.



clipped on: 04.11.2008 at 01:24 pm    last updated on: 04.11.2008 at 01:25 pm

contrasting trim is Adex Hampton dk blue

posted by: peavee on 04.10.2008 at 12:42 pm in Bathrooms Forum

I meant Adex Hampton for contrasting trim in white subway tile shower stall not bananappeal blue.


interesting tile site, liked the floral design maybe for kids bath
clipped on: 04.11.2008 at 11:33 am    last updated on: 04.11.2008 at 11:34 am

are your ranges flush against the back wall or is there a space?

posted by: anna_2006 on 03.13.2008 at 10:37 pm in Kitchens Forum

The installation saga continues...

If my range is pushed only so far so that the crack and oven door project beyond the adjacent cabinets, then there will be a 1 1/4" space between the range and the back wall.

However, the back wall is not yet tiled, so how much will tiles take up after they are grouted to the wall? 1/2"?

Then the space between the range and back wall will be 3/4". Is this not too big? Should the range not be flush against the wall?

My range has a 3" tall backsplash attached to it which I could take off and just use the island trim, but either way, there will still be a 3/4" space.

If you have a space, how large is it? Does it bother you? Any photos?

I think I should be talking to the cabinet maker tomorrow instead of just the appliance guy. I also have to call the granite fabricator since he already came to do a template and if anything changes with the cabinets, then that will change his template.

I don't know anymore if my concerns are valid or not. DH is upset that I am holding things up. I need your advice.


clipped on: 03.17.2008 at 01:25 am    last updated on: 03.17.2008 at 01:26 am

RE: Do those little extras really make life easier? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: igloochic on 02.05.2008 at 03:19 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have toe kick drawers in every toe kick available. You can store lightbulbs, linens, step stools, trays, etc in them. They can be used as hidden storage as well in other areas. You never know when you might need a pistol in the garage.....wait that's a secret :oP KIDDING! We are putting one in the son's bathroom that will be flipped upside down while he's small to use as a step up to the sink for him, and then can be flipped back over when he's grown for storage. Add up four inches of storage extra below all of your kitchen adds up to A LOT of storage!

Never MT is about $20 and takes care of the dish soap bottle for a cool is that? A prep sink...well I went out of my way to design with that included because it makes a one cook kitchen into a two cook kitchen very quickly. The main cook in our kitchen can use the main sink and the pot filler, but the other cook can make salad, etc., at the other sink, and scrape plates due to it's proximity to the dining room opening when the main sink is full from the crazy cook.

Pot filler...they flow much faster than a normal faucet, which is nice if you ever fill up a bit pan of water for soup on a regular basis. We do, and can't wait until it's in place.

I don't want to do away with any of those items, though we could have purchased less expensive ones. Did we need a 55 1/2 inch range....I think not :) But will we use it to it's capacity, oh ya! We entertain and cook for large groups and can't wait to use every inch of it.

The plate warmer or warming drawer...I'm only sorry I didn't make room for one in the bathroom...I hear they're fabulous for towel warmers!

We did research that quite a bit because of the design space for the warming drawer (in the kitchen). In the end, we purchased a range with a warming cabinet which will work even better than the drawer. The folks we know with the drawers who cook a lot, use it every night. The folks we know who have them but don't cook...think they're useless except for pizza. But for a couple of those folks..their range and sinks are useless LOL

I think it's such an individual thing, these luxuries. I'm with the above poster who didn't like the big jug of soap on the counter (and with two sinks...two counters) so the never MT was a big deal to me. The same can be said for the sink issue. The luxuries I could have done without (but didn't want to) were the upgrades. Things like squirrel knobs and pulls shaped like moose :oP The tile backsplash could have been cheaper and still lovely. The stove could have been bigger and cheaper and still functional..the glass could have been standard verses stained. It's those areas I'd change first, before I'd change the actuall functioning pieces. After all, that moose head drawer pull isn't going to make the drawer open any better...and not nearly as well as the full extension glides will :)

(But it's awfully cute!)


clipped on: 02.06.2008 at 02:37 am    last updated on: 02.06.2008 at 02:37 am

RE: Now that I have [X], I think I could have lived without it. (Follow-Up #69)

posted by: sombreuil_mongrel on 10.16.2007 at 06:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

My top three favorites are, in no particular order:
Second sink. It's great being able to do veggies in a sink that never sees dishes or handwashing and is always clean and ready to go.
Pro-style range. The large burners are lightyears better than what I was tolerating for 12 years. And the built-in grill and convection oven part is great, too.
I have to say that the little cuisinart convection/toaster oven is the best of it's kind (toaster ovens) under $150, and it has a good three-year track record with no problems. (my sister goes through a cheap B&D type toaster oven every six months!) This one features something called precision temp or constant temp, and it really is amazing for crisping up bread on the convection mode.
The flat panel 26" Aquos TV, Soapstone counters, fireclay apron sink, Jenn-Air CD FD Fridge, Advantium oven, Vinatta faucets, trash pull-out, and inset cabinet doors tie for 4th. /Insufferable gloat mode off./


Vinatta faucet?
clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 01:24 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 01:24 pm

RE: Now that I have [X], I think I could have lived without it. (Follow-Up #58)

posted by: abbycat9990 on 10.15.2007 at 12:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

I wish we had not replaced the planned 12" wide cabinet next to range (for cookie sheets & cutting boards) with a 12" spice pullout. I don't like bending down to get the oil, etc. Original plan was to have a narrow shelf over backsplash for oils & most-used spices. Now the cutting boards are in a drawer. Not ideal.

Someone mentioned the Kenmore Elite DW with turbo. Never use the turbo feature, as it's an energy guzzler. Got it because I wanted all appliances to match--what was I thinking???

Love the pedal trash can with soft close lid and print-proof stainless (Simple Human)
Love the pantry cabinets (24" wide and 12" deep), which allow me to see--and easily reach--everything. Wider would have been better, but we had limited wall space.
Love all the drawers! Only sink base and pantries have doors. No upper cabs. 3 drawer bases. Love them.

Wish I'd posted layout here, so I could have gotten input on pantry & fridge cabinet heights. Also wish we'd brought gas into house so we could have chosen a gas cooktop.


trash can with pedal
clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 01:17 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 01:17 pm

Cooktop in front of kitchen window?

posted by: lindatsr on 12.29.2007 at 10:46 pm in Kitchens Forum

We are in the early stages of planning a kitchen remodel. One thing I would like to do is switch the location of our sink and our cooktop, which would put the sink and adjacent counter space (where I spend most of my time) at a "bar" facing out into the living room and the cooktop in front of an existing window. The window view isn't fantastic, but I would like to maintain at least some window space in that location for light. The window sill currently sits about 8" above the countertop. We could reframe the window to make it smaller if needed and I assume we would need to have some sort of safety glass. It could be frosted or something decorative as it will be behind the cooktop where a backsplash would normally be. I plan to have a 36" gas Wolf cooktop and will probably have a chimney style cooktop hood or other wall hood.

Does anyone have a similar setup? Any thoughts on the feasibility of this setup would be appreciated. Obviously cleaning will be an issue, but maybe no worse than cleaning any other backsplash.


entire category for window/range
clipped on: 01.01.2008 at 12:11 pm    last updated on: 01.01.2008 at 12:12 pm

RE: What do you wish you had done differently? (Follow-Up #102)

posted by: amsunshine on 09.29.2007 at 04:31 pm in Kitchens Forum

I love my pullouts!! In my own unique situation, I found that they gave me more flexibility than drawers in two of my base cabinets. I have two cabinets with two pullouts each and one shelf each -- three storage levels below the top drawer (so four altogether). The top pullout is for "flat storage", where I have placemats in one cabinet and dishtowels and microfiber cloths in the other. The next level down is a shelf which holds my heavier roasting pan(s) and the other holds my most used handled pots for quick grabbing. The bottom rollouts store my other pots and pans. If I had gotten drawers, I would lost the upper flat storage pullout, which I love having. But again, this works for my unique kitchen and the way I operate in it.


clipped on: 12.31.2007 at 11:27 am    last updated on: 12.31.2007 at 11:27 am

RE: What do you wish you had done differently? (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: pkirkha1 on 07.30.2007 at 02:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

I really hate my microhood - I didn't really have a choice due to space issues and I really, really did not want it on the counter but I don't like it and don't think it vents well. I did a flush reveal on the undermount sink and wish I had done a slight negative reveal to hide the rim. Otherwise I am very happy.


clipped on: 12.31.2007 at 10:44 am    last updated on: 12.31.2007 at 10:44 am

RE: What do you wish you had done differently? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: jeri on 07.30.2007 at 11:47 am in Kitchens Forum

Done Right:

1. Drawers everywhere! Including under the sink for trash and recycling.
2. IKEA cabinets which include Blum full extension and soft close drawers.
3. Recessed standard depth fridge so it looks like a counter depth but cost less and has more space.
4. Large single bowl sink.
5. Every shelf in my pantry is a pullout.
6. Removed wall to family room
7. Office area room for 2 computers and storage for "office" stuff.

Things I will do in my next kitchen:

1. Induction cook top
2. Advantium oven
3. Plugmold
4. alcove behind cook top
5. granite slab with lots of movement
6. Deeper counter tops
7. wood floors


clipped on: 12.31.2007 at 10:42 am    last updated on: 12.31.2007 at 10:42 am

RE2: Kitchen Renovation Advice (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: buehl on 11.29.2007 at 10:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

I drew up an idea...

Structural changes:

I removed the following walls:
* both pantry wall sides (left the back wall)
* the wall next to the current refrigerator

I then expanded the kitchen 3' into the said you would consider expanding into the "Christmas Tree room" :-) If 3' is too much, you could do 2' and reduce the depth of the Pantry and the "Dish Hutch" (more on that later). However, unless you want a counter-depth refrigerator, I would at least leave the 3' depth for the Message Center & Refrigerator...both of which are contained in the original pantry alcove space.

I added another pantry wall 4' from the DR side (see pic below)


I incorporated all your appliances and added a prep sink.

Your work flow goes from the the prep sink and prep on the the cooktop or the cleanup sink or DR.

Message Center: You mentioned the peninsula seems to be a clutter magnet. By adding a Message Center you should be able to cut down on some of the clutter. The Message Center would have the house/land line phone (this location is convenient to both the kitchen and the FR); a place to recharge cell phones, cameras, etc.; a place to store phone books & directories; and a place for your keys and other paraphernalia that seems to accumulate at entrances.

Refrigerator: Good location b/c while it's in the kitchen, it's still convenient to the FR and outsiders using it won't interfere with the prep, cooking, and cleanup. Landing Space: Dish Hutch

Dish Hutch: This 30"W x 30"D cabinet is really a 30"W x 30"D base cabinet plus a countertop plus a 30"W x 15"D ceiling height wall cabinet with, possibly, glass doors. This will give it a furniture look and will provide a lot of storage space for dishes, small appliances, gadgets, etc. The 15" deep countertop can also serve as landing space for the Refrigerator and Pantry.

Pantry: This actually can work two ways:

(1) Shallow walk-in. 48"W x 30"D with 15" deep shelves floor to ceiling along the back wall. Then, along the side walls, you could install peg boards and store things like brooms, mops, etc....or anything else you like (e.g., someone on GW stores their pots & pans in their very shallow (12"D?) pantry hung from pegboards on the back and side walls.) Bi-fold doors provide full access to the pantry front.

(2) Pantry Pullouts. You could alternately put in 52" of pullout pantry cabinets. Why 52" instead of 48"? B/c if you use pantry cabinets you won't need that 4-1/2" wall like you do w/the walk-in. (There may be a way to eliminate that wall for the walk-in as well, but I would be careful since a door will be hanging from it. Shelves can be secured along the back.)

Landing Space: Dish Hutch

Peninsula: From what I can tell from your current layout, it appears that you currently have a 12" overhang. 15" is recommended for counter-height seating. It means expanding only 3" into the FR.

It also provides a nice expanse of countertop (84" x 39"!! I'm envious!!) for baking, normal prep work, school/art/craft projects, and homework (if you have school-age children). Hopefully, DW will be OK with that.

I also added a prep sink to that area to keep the cleanup and prep zones separate (and to provide a place to wash hands or get a drink of water w/o interfering w/the kitchen work). [In our home, DH and I are always in each other's way since we only have one sink and it's only 24" away from the range. We're adding a prep sink and moving the cleanup sink to the other side of the kitchen when we remodel.] Prep Sink Landing Space: Right of sink

Next to the prep sink, I added a 12" trash pullout for prep scraps.

Note one other thing: I put in a Beverage Chiller (or could be Wine Chiller or small refrigerator) under the peninsula counter on the FR side and added a 12" x 12" wall cabinet facing the FR on the end of the window wall to hold cups, napkins, etc. Things that might be useful in the FR. It could also have 2 doors--one opening on the kitchen side and the other the FR side.

Window Wall:

I put in a 33" double-bowl sink (1-3/4) under the window. It's not quite centered (off by 1.5"), but I don't think it will be noticeable. I wasn't sure if you wanted a double- or single-bowl, so I put in a double. [If you're unsure, search the forum for several discussions on single vs double sinks!...oh, be sure to use the "search" box at the bottom of the page, not the top!]

I also bumped out the sink 3" to give you more room behind the sink. I've noticed that most sinks take up the majority of the depth of counters, leaving very little room for faucets & soap dispensers. By adding 3" it gives you a little "breathing space" behind the sink. The 3" on either side could be converted to a "filler pullout" (see the Rev-A-Shelf Spice Racks for Fillers -- Have you seen these!!!! thread).

If possible, I would also recommend bringing the window down to the counter height and running your counter into the sill. Several GWers have done this and it looks very nice... (see the Counter Height Windows Love them? Hate them? thread)

The DW is to the left of the sink (it's the reason I had to put the sink slightly off center. If the sink is smaller, it could probably be centered).

To the right of the sink is a full-size trash pullout for sink & cooking scraps. You may also be able to put a recycle can in there (2 cans total).

There's a 36" lazy susan b/w the trash pullout and the cooktop (corner)

Sink Landing Space: Both sides of sink

Cooking Wall: This wall has your 36" induction cooktop w/a 42" vent hood, vented to the outside. It is highly recommended that vent hoods be at least 6" wider than your cooktop to better catch heat, grease, smoke, etc.

There is also a 6" spice/oils pullout to the left of the cooktop. (see the Rev-A-Shelf thread above).

Then, there's 24" of landing/space b/w the cooktop and the ovens.

The oven stack contains your Convection MW and Convection Wall Oven.

Cooktop Landing Space: Left & right of cooktop
Oven Landing Space: Left of oven stack

Doorways & Clearances:

Between the ovens and pantry: 42". This is also the size of the doorway into the DR.

Between the Message Center and peninsula: 42"

+++++++++ And now, the picture! ++++++++++++

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


Some general recommendations:

* Mostly drawers in your base cabinets. Especially the wider ones. The wider drawers are perfect for pots & pans. Other drawers are great for "tupperware", utensils, linens, baking tools, prep tools, etc.

Check out the following threads:

What do you wish you had done differently?

Best advice from this forum

Now that I have [X], I think I could have lived without it

Checklist For Granite Installation? (just in case!)

tray cabinets - top 1/2 wasted space

And, to help you with our kitchen design:

Kitchen Forum FAQ

I hope you like it. However, remember this is your kitchen, so if you don't like it, change it!

Good luckand let me know if you have any questions or thoughts!


clipped on: 12.31.2007 at 10:34 am    last updated on: 12.31.2007 at 10:36 am

RE: Kitchen Renovation Advice--Storage (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: buehl on 11.29.2007 at 10:58 pm in Kitchens Forum

Since I'm on a roll tonight, I thought I'd the following! ;-)


Once you have the basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size of your cabinets/drawers. (The following is a general write-up I've come up with...)
. . .

1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your kitchen (regardless of where it's stored, basement, dining room, etc.)
. . .

2. Next, take the list and group the items according to function. Will they be used during prep? cooking? baking? cleanup? Some items, like pot holder, may belong in 2 different zones (in this case, cooking & baking). You can either find storage b/w the two zones or store them in both zones.
. . .

2. Now, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)
. . .

The next step depends on the stage you are in the design/order process...
. . .

3. If you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have. So...

....a. Identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.

....b. Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.
. . .

4. If you're still in the design phase, you'll have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.

....a. Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.

....b. Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).

....c. Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)

....d. Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.
. . .

You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

This not only helps you to "see" how things will fit, but it also will help when you move back into the won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy "map" for everyone to help find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!
. . .

Common Zones:
* Storage--pantry & refrigerator; tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags, paper towels
* Preparation--sink & trash; utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books
* Cooking--cooktop/range & MW; utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, dishes & glasses, flatware, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.)
* Baking--ovens/range; utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins
* Cleanup--sink & DW & trash; detergents, linens
* Eating--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR; table linens, placemats, napkins
* Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords
* Message Center--phones, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard

Less Common Zones:
* Tea/Coffee Bar--coffeemaker; mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot
* Pet Zone--feeding area; food, snacks

Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer

Potential Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.


clipped on: 12.31.2007 at 10:33 am    last updated on: 12.31.2007 at 10:33 am