As most of you know, systemic pesticides are chemicals you typically apply to the soil, and or seed, that are taken up into the tissues of the plant. Insects are then (theoretically) exposed when they eat the plant. The most widely used of these chemicals are the neonicotinoids, specifically imidacloprid. Imidacloprid is the largest selling pesticide in the world. Chances are, if you purchase a plant at a commercial nursery, imidacloprid has been applied in the soil. Even if a salesperson tells you that they don't apply pesticides, they mean at the sales location (like a big box store). However, a systemic probably has been applied when the plant was first grown. Sometimes before it even germinates.

These pesticides have been implicated in colony collapse disorder (bees dying off). These pesticides are found in sub-lethal levels in nectar and pollen. The argument between scientists and the chemical companies is whether pesticides are responsible for CCD. It is difficult to prove conclusively because they are at sub-lethal levels.

I have seen at least one study that indicates that imidacloprid is found in flower nectars and that butterflies do not die drinking it. There is little research on what other effects it might have, other than death, because butterflies are not a commercially important species. Certainly, when applied to host plants, the caterpillars die.

However, this is the important scary part. I have now read two studies by researchers in Italy, that document high levels of systemic pesticides (including imidacloprid) in guttation drops. Guttation drops are water droplets expelled by plants at night. Plants use transpiration (the process of water moving through the plant through evaporation) to expel excess water and waste products. However, at night, they cannot use transpiration. So many have adapted by creating specialized cells to eliminate water and other waste products. What we think of as dew, is actually this process and the drops are called guttation drops. Many insects use this water, first thing in the morning to rehydrate.

Anyhow, the Italian researchers grew corn in fields, that the seeds had been treated with systemic pesticides. Bees where then exposed to the drops of water. They drank them and died within two minutes ( here is a video link but don't watch if you don't like seeing animals die https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Nsn4KvjwM ).

These pesticides are commonly applied not only to your flowers but also to our yards. Advantage is a common turf pesticide used to kill grubs. It's main ingredient is imidacloprid. I will let you draw your own conclusions. However, I cannot walk through wet morning grass without thinking about this. the argument in use of systemics was that we were not exposed to them because they were in the soils. Whoops, looks like we could be exposed to them in higher levels than before.

Oh, and by the way, they are now saying that they last in the soil up to 500 days.

Sigh,
Elisabeth

"...A Novel Way for Intoxication for Bees"
http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/Girolami.pdf

Salvia Seed Sowing

Fill pots with moist potting mix that drains well. Sow seeds on the surface of the potting mix. Mist seeds well after sowing.

Optional Step
Place pots in a tub or sink filled with warm water. Allow the water to seep up through the mix until it breaks the mix surface. Remove the pots and allow to drain.

Place pots with sown seeds in a bright window. Cover pots with a plastic bag, for individual pots. If using a seed sowing kit place pots in tray and cover the whole tray with the plastic dome. Keep seeds moist, mist if needed.

A heat pad will help with germination.

Most salvia seeds will develop a gelatinous coating once they are moistened. Some will also develop a fuzzy mold on this coating prior to germinating. Salvia seeds start to germinate ( when the root first breaks through the seed shell) anywhere from 2 - 14 days, some may take even longer. A light misting can help stubborn seeds germinate.

Once most of the seeds have germinated and the seed leaves have emerged remove the covering from the pots. When the second set of true leaves appear pot the seedlings up into individual pots. This can be done after the first set of true leaves appear if the seedlings are getting lanky or are large.

Water seedlings from the bottom as needed.

PLEASE NOTE: Some species germinate better after the seeds have been aged (8 mths. to a year) in dry storage. I use paper coin envelopes to store my seed. I do not refrigerate them.

SG

I used a kitty litter container (larger than a milk jug) to grow my last batch. I chose this container because I was able to leave the seedlings in there for two seasons. They thrived all summer; great autumn color when I peeked at them in Oct. This next year we will either pot up or put outside. Survival rate after this is about 30%.

I don't check this forum often any more but give much credit to starting my old age hobby of winter sowing five years ago. What fun! And a wonderful way to get some of those rare plants, too.

Below, I will link an article that gives quite a bit of info about franklinia stratification and germination. Go down to page 16 (original page 535).

Here is a link that might be useful: See page 16 (535)

@terrene - You would look for a crab apple seedling that is around a foot or two tall. It doesn't have to be anything special just the same species as the bird tree, or any apple tree of the malus species. It should also have the same trunk diameter as the scion.. You don't want a scion larger then the rootstocks trunk.. Most people use grafting tape or budding tape. Then cover that with a parafilm tape, or wax, rosin or that paint stuff..

J

Meat meal is not all that different from any other protein-based animal byproduct used as an organic fertilizer - bone meal, blood meal, feather meal, fish meal, etc., etc. Typically, you will see it listed as MBM - meat and bone meal - as one is heavier on the N levels and the other on the P. Together they form a relatively balanced and fast-acting basic nutrient source.

Organic fertilizers are intended to supply specific nutrients that may be missing or deficient in existing soil. Simply adding organic matter can not always satisfy the nutrient demands of fast growing crops in a single growing season. Organic farming operations have utilized supplemental fertilization practices for decades in addition to the more typical annual cover cropping or applications of manures, composts or other OM. That is why many organic fertilizers are OMRI approved -- if they were never necessary (or somehow bad for the soil) as some posters would lead you to believe, there would not be the massive market for them there is nor any need for the organic gardening/farming approval.

Since all organic fertilizers (other than mined minerals) are derived from plant and animal byproducts, they ARE JUST AS MUCH ORGANIC MATTER as is compost or animal manures. That emphasis is intended for those who persist in thinking they are not. They require activation (mineralization/digestion) by soil organisms to release the nutrients into plant-accessible forms. In this way, they encourage all manner of soil biology and improve the soil in much the same manner as any other form of OM. Plus they offer the benefit of specific nutrient supplementation and often in a much more fast-acting form than does typical OM.

First, grab a copy of a good butterfly field guide as I cannot draw pictures on this board :). The guide should have an description of the bands on the hindwing. You should be familliar with "marginal","submarginal","postmedian",and "median" (basically end, before the end, after the middle, and middle. Leave it to the scientists to complicate things. Oh wait! I is a scientist! That exlains a lot :))

Okay, here we go!

1) Look at the dorsal hindwing.
a)on the black female tiger, there is a black band that dissects the submarginal band from the post median band. The blue that extends above this tends to be faint to absent (although it can be strong through the median portion of the wing).

In black swallowtails, the blue stops above this line and is replaced with faint yellow spots on the female (I think of the males strong yellow band here).

On spicebush, this black line is faint to absent and the blue extends through to the median band. The color of blue has more green and white in it (depending on where you are).

In pipevines, this line is absent, and the blue extends through the median portion of the hindwing. The pipevine is the only butterfly where the blue is predominantly caused by irridescence only and not pigment as in the others. So, depending on which direction you look at the wing, it can look black or flash with brilliant blue.

b) the top of the thorax has faint lines on either side, and the abdomen is black to striped on the tiger.

On the black sw, the thorax has two dots on either side. The abdomen has a row of spots on either side extending down it.

The spicebush will have four small spots on the top of the thorax with stripes extending down from the bottom two spots. The pipevine has a similar pattern, though the strips might be fainter. Also, the pipevine occasionally has iridescence on the body as well.

c)the lunules in the submarginal band of the tiger and black swallowtail are similar. I think the tigers are more well developed and have more orange. The Hindwing spot of the black is more developed and has a black "bullseye" in it (the only swallowtail in the east to have this).

The lunules of the spicebush are white with a bluish (or greenish) cast to them. They are larger than those of the tiger and black. The hindwing spot looks like a pair of mad eyes (the white extends along the side unlike the tiger and black)

The lunules of the pipevine are the smallest and the blue often extends down over them and into the tails.

Phew, anyone want to add anything or correct any mistakes?

-Elisabeth