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RE: Pushopen/pedal trash bins (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: cat_mom on 12.15.2007 at 04:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

People with different cabinet brands/manuf. have used the trash pedal openers succesfully. FWIW, our cabs are from a NJ manuf., and they installed the Hailo (by Hafele) trash can holder, glides, and toe-kick pedal door opener system in their shop.

The door is pulled open by bungie cords on the inside of the door. They clip onto a holder that is mounted on the floor of the cabinet itself, with three positions in a row for attaching it (the furthest in creates the loosest tension, the one furthest out creates the tightest tension).

The door does spring open far enough, and it doesn't fly open so fast or with so much force that you need to fear injury!

The only thing I will tell you, is that if you do install one, try to discourage opening the door with the handle. Use the pedal. I think pulling on the door at the handle can cause the bungies to loosen up and/or cause the door alignment to get a little out of whack.


clipped on: 02.05.2008 at 08:19 pm    last updated on: 02.05.2008 at 08:19 pm

RE: Pushopen/pedal trash bins (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: buehl on 12.15.2007 at 05:57 pm in Kitchens Forum

They're an after market item that you retrofit. As Cat_Mom said, they're sold by Hfele and are available online from various online stores (e.g., and

The silver one is for trash cans mounted on rails or shelves (i.e., suspended from a shelf or rail): 502.15.220
Foot Pedal, Rails/Shelf (TrashcansAndMore)
Foot Pedal, Rails/Shelf (KitchenSource)

The black one is for trash cans mounted on a base drawer/shelf (i.e., sitting in a base): 502.15.113
Foot Pedal, Base (TrashcansAndMore)
Foot Pedal, Base (KitchenSource)

They're designed for frameless cabinets BUT, if you check the link below you will find a series of 4 pictures describing how a GWer made them work for face frame cabinets!

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Pull Out Trash Foot Pedal--How to make it work with Face Frame Cabinets (4 pics & description)


clipped on: 02.05.2008 at 08:18 pm    last updated on: 02.05.2008 at 08:18 pm

RE: Rev-A-Shelf Spice Racks for Fillers -- Have you seen these!!! (Follow-Up #29)

posted by: alku05 on 11.26.2007 at 05:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

Kbmas0n, purchasing pullouts as an aftermarket item is usually much cheaper than ordering them from the cabinet company. For example, we chose to order the plain cabinet from the cabinet company requesting an unattached door, and our pullout trash hardware from revashelf (a good accessories company). We put in the pullout ourselves, attached the door to it, and all-in-all saved about $200.

The pullout filler we started talking about in this thread is the only option that actually takes the place of something you'd order from the cabinet company. Everything else (pantry pullouts, trash pullouts, Buehl's oil pullouts) are things that get installed inside of plain cabinets you order from your cabinet company.

Check out the link below to browse some of the many aftermarket items out there. (There are less expensive sources for these items, but the site below is very useful for browsing.)

Here is a link that might be useful: KitchenSource cabinet accessories


clipped on: 02.05.2008 at 01:32 pm    last updated on: 02.05.2008 at 01:32 pm

RE: Rev-A-Shelf Spice Racks for Fillers -- Have you seen these!!! (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: alku05 on 10.11.2007 at 10:49 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have them on either side of my rangetop and love them! I highly recommend them if you need a 3" filler somewhere.


Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

They hold about 40-44 spice bottles apiece.


clipped on: 02.05.2008 at 01:22 pm    last updated on: 02.05.2008 at 01:22 pm

What would you have done differently -- Thread 2

posted by: fern4 on 01.29.2008 at 08:45 pm in Kitchens Forum

The last thread on this topic is now dying as it drifts to oblivion. Here's an attempt to consolidate the 150 posts:

drawers instead of pullouts (lots disagree), no skimping on labor, push back refrigerator instead of getting counterdepth, hoods wider than cooktops, run lighting plan by the lighting forum experts, more effort at design stage, more attention to countertop templating, no divided lites in glass cabinets, deeper upper cabinets, more time spent reviewing cabinet plans, slight negative reveal on sink to hide edge, no microhood, measure everything yourself (especially for appliances), honed the granite, checked out appliances for noise level before buying them, avoided granite altogether, two sinks instead of one, planned where light switches would go instead of on-the-run, measure how your cabinet space will be used, saying go-ahead-and-do-what-you-think to the contractor when you should make the decision, make sure that things won't result in appliances sticking out into the room, under cabinet lighting in strips not pucks, consider location of towels, stayed home to supervise carpenter, hired professional painter, knocked down old walls, 3-drawer cabinets instead of 4-drawers, avoided side-by-side and/or French door refrigerators (or not!), thought about location of prep work, location of other people in kitchen, built in more work stations, added a pantry, big drawer for plastic containers, custom cabinets, trusted my own taste, had taller cabinets, avoided filler pieces in lots of places, don't trust designers/contractors/subs, carefully consider cabinet hardware on your own cabinets, electric not gas over, nonsplashing faucet, consulted plumber before plans were finalized, check your cabinet drawings a million times, not getting gas stove, granite with too much or too little movement, run undercabinet lights towards front not center, stained interior of glass fronted cabinets to match outside, made more money to pay for it all, more outlets on island, wider baking drawer stack, avoided blind cupboards, avoid lowest bidders, planned better for demo, no full granite backsplash, not put a pull-out shelf over the refrigerator, more research, not checking references, keeping the peace with subs when we should have told them "no," nearly anything that I didn't decide myself but let someone else decide for me, large single bowl sink, included induction cook top and Advantium oven, used plug mold, put in an alcove over the cook top, deeper counter tops, and wood floors. Not perfect but a pretty good summary.


clipped on: 01.29.2008 at 10:24 pm    last updated on: 01.29.2008 at 10:24 pm

RE: what gauge stainless steel sink? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: sherilynn on 01.20.2008 at 11:32 am in Kitchens Forum

FYI: about any stainless steel sink. I recently had a huge compliment from my brother, a builder of high end homes. He was very impressed at how good my sink always looks. He is not a fan at ALL with SS. He prefers porcelain, which chips.

I asked him why he was so impressed with my sink and hates SS? It was because he has had to replace multiple high end sinks before closing because a workman or someone would have used a new homeowners SS sink and caused a 'scratch' in the bottom of the sink. The new homeowners would insist on a brand new sink before they would close.We all know that we can tolerate the damage that we do to our stuff, but not anyone else! When you spend well over a $1,000 to $1,800 for a sink, of COURSE you want it to be unblemished!

Well, I told him my 'secret' to keeping my 12" deep single basin Franke sink looking good. I've used this 'method' on ALL of my sinks and I just love it! My sink glows because of the 'patina' that it now has...and yours can, too. The finish looks better each time you use my method, too.

I use my sink! I also have a large family that I cook for and use some commercial size, heavy pans. Guests sometimes want to help in the kitchen, or teens, and they bang up the bottom, scratching the sink, and it will look just awful when they're done. They always apologize because they think they've ruined my sink. Never fear. I can 'fix' it in as little as 3 minutes from start to finish.

I've now trained my teens on how to help me maintain a good looking sink. AND if they scratch it, they restore it! It's that simple.

Here's what I do. About every other day, I use Bar Keepers Friend and one of the green scrubby pads that you can buy just about anywhere. It will keep average use to your sink 'maintained' between 'restoration' cleanings.

When there are scuffs and deeper scratches in the sink, I use sandpaper to wet-sand the metal in different grades of paper to restore the sinks. I prefer the black 'wet or dry' sandpaper by Norton that you buy at HD. I already have about 3" squares in multiple grades already cut out and in a baggy under my sink, so I'm ready when I need to 'do this'.

I start with about 150 grit working on the problem areas when I get to them, then work up to at least a 400 grit. I use small circular pattern and overlap all of my work. I never just 'rub' a scuff or scratch in a straight pattern; I always blend my work.

I start in the furthest back left corner and work across the back of the sink moving left to right, just as you would work if you were writing on lined paper. I do the entire sink bottom, then move to the sides. I start with 150 grit paper, then change to 220, then 320, then 400. I rinse the sink after each grit paper is used. Sometimes I use a little soap or BKF depending on my needs so I can move faster with the paper. Once you try it, you will understand what I mean.

I finish off with a good soapy rinse with a rag, then apply a 'finish' of Franke Inox cleaner or a wiping coat of vegetable oil. I have even used Rain-X to help repel spots. I'm just out of it right now and have been using up products I have under the sink. I use 'whatever' to just help the sink repel water right down the drain a.s.a.p..

My brother now had one of his guys using my method on their Franke sinks before final walk thru before closing on a new home. Guess what? They're not having to replace sinks anymore.

After you clean your sink a few times, your sink will start to gain a beautiful patina and smoothness to the finish and you will start to love stainless steel. I also use this method on my $10,000 Thermador Range top. It glows. I just love it.


clipped on: 01.28.2008 at 11:11 pm    last updated on: 01.28.2008 at 11:11 pm

RE: Anyone NOT have counter-depth refrigerator? Pics (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: patti_bee on 01.13.2008 at 03:42 pm in Kitchens Forum

I think it will look fine, especially where your fridge is located. Another idea is to consider making the counters on that wall of the kitchen 30 inches deep instead of 24. We have that and the full-depth fridge blends right in plus the lovely benefit of deeper drawers and more counter space. It may be too late in your process to do this but I just love my deeper drawers and counters. Here's a view that shows how the fridge fits with 30 inch counters --


clipped on: 01.13.2008 at 07:44 pm    last updated on: 01.13.2008 at 07:44 pm

RE: 15in Base Cabinet- Anyone convert one to a trash pullout? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: buehl on 12.09.2007 at 08:54 pm in Kitchens Forum

If you are willing to go the route of after-market hardware, Rev-A-Shelf makes trash pullouts in various sizes. To determine which one will fit your cabinet:

(1) Determine the width of the cabinet opening-measure it to find out exactly. If you have face frame, it's probably 12" or so; if frameless, it's probably around 15".

(2) Next, check the specs for the various options for one that has a width < the width of your cabinet opening. Some of them will tell you the minimum opening needed.

If you do have face frame cabinets, I think the one that will fit is RV-15KD-2 S, Rev-A-Shelf Pull-Out, 2-27qt. Waste Container.

If you have frameless, you can get one that holds 2-35qt containers RV-18PB-2 S, 2-35 Qt Waste Container w/FE Slides, White.

They both have full-extension slides.

And then, you could install a foot pedal to make it hands-free! (hands-free for base mounted trash cans OR hands-free for rail/shelf mounted trash cans)

Note: The Rev-A-Shelf links take you to Ovis and the foot pedal links take you to TrashCansAndMore. However, if you search you will find that other sites also carry these items.



Note links for hands-free cabinets with trash can
clipped on: 01.13.2008 at 02:21 pm    last updated on: 01.13.2008 at 02:21 pm

RE: 16' deep uppers (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: native_tx on 01.13.2008 at 12:23 pm in Kitchens Forum

My older cabinets are 12" deep, but I recently added 16" deep cabinets over a counter with microwave and assorted stuff. My counters are 24" deep with 20" clearance. I LOVE the extra depth and it looks and functions just fine. I really don't notice the extra depth except for the additional storage. Go for it!


clipped on: 01.13.2008 at 02:04 pm    last updated on: 01.13.2008 at 02:05 pm

RE: Filler pullouts ! (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: flatcoat2004 on 01.09.2008 at 10:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

Yep, I originally saw the idea for brooms etc, both here on GW and on the IkeaFans website, I've attached a link. But I kind of dismissed the idea, since the fridge is up against the wall of a framed-in closet that I will use for brooms, mops etc.

What I *DO* need, however, is storage for small stuff like keys, leashes, collars, pens, scissors, tape, doggie cleanup bags etc. And it wasn't until I saw the picture on the RevAShelf website that I realised that this dead space could be used for this purpose. I would prefer two separate ones I think. I know the clever folks at IkeaFans build their own, but not really an option here. I think I saw them at about $180 each earlier today, so I suspect it's cost-effective for me just to buy them pre-made.

Here are some of the pictures that made me go "hmmmmmm .... !"

Here is a link that might be useful: IkeaFans pullout broom closet


clipped on: 01.10.2008 at 03:13 am    last updated on: 01.10.2008 at 03:13 am

Filler pullouts !

posted by: flatcoat2004 on 01.09.2008 at 04:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

What a fantastic idea they are ! I just came across an old thread that had information about the RevAShelf 3" filler pullouts. I had seen them before, but I didn't really have much filler needed for my straight run of base and wall cabinets, and I plan to store spices etc elsewhere anyway.

The opposite wall of the kitchen will have just a refrigerator (butted up against a wall as close as possible while allowing the doors to open properly), with a shallow sideways pantry on the other side of the refrigerator. I had tinkered with the idea of putting in one of those cool broom closet pullouts between the wall and the refrigerator, but I have plenty of broom storage elsewhere, so it seemed unnecessary. But I just saw the RevAShelf base pullouts with pegboard, and I can think of a million things I could stash in one of these 3" units ! mostly keys and leashes etc.

So I quickly drew up some elevations to see if it would work, if I could stack two of these pullout units over each other. What do you think ? Am I missing anything ? Can these units be installed right next to the wall like this ?


Use full length RevAShelf with pegboard for broom closet, per Ikeafans
clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 09:27 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 09:28 pm

RE: Basic rules of layout- measuring 3 points? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: buehl on 01.09.2008 at 01:59 pm in Kitchens Forum

Those who have done it, as I recall, have erected an angled wall behind the range to put the range & hood against. See the Finished Kitchen's Blog link below for one person's kitchen who did just that. (If you click on her picture link, and "view" the album, the 9th picture is a closeup of the corner range.)

***** Some helpful advice on Kitchen Remodels *****

First step: Take the "Sweeby Test" It will help you define what it is you want out of your remodel (besides new "things").

Next, evaluate your current kitchen...what works, what doesn't AND what do you like, what don't you like (not always the same thing!) How many people will be working in the kitchen? Do you have children? These are just a few of the questions to ask yourself. See Beginning a Kitchen Plan

While doing the above... Think about and set your budget. Keep 10% to 15% in reserve for emergencies...those unexpected surpirses like insect damage, unsafe floors, etc. When walls are opened up or floors pulled up, you sometimes find unexpected situations...sometimes good, but probably not so good!


Layout: Once you've figured out what it is you want from your new kitchen, it's time to start thinking about the layout itself.

* The best place to start is to draw up your kitchen (to scale, if possible) without cabinets & appliances. This means measuring everything...walls, ceiling height, widths of doors & windows, distances between windows, walls, doorways, etc.

* If you cannot move plumbing or gas, mark them on your drawing as well.

* Mark all doorways & windows (w/dimensions) and label them as to where they lead. If they're actual doors, mark how they swing.

* It also would be helpful to see the connecting rooms, even layouts so you see how they interact with the kitchen and/or extend the kitchen feel and flow.

Make a list of things like:

* What is your goal E.g., more counter space, more storage, seating in the kitchen (island? peninsula? table?), etc.

* Do you plan to merge two rooms/areas (e.g., Nook and Kitchen into a Kitchen only)

* Where are you flexible?
.....Can windows or doorways change size?
.....Can they be moved?
.....Can windows be raised/lowered?
.....Can any walls come down?
.....Does the sink have to be centered under a window?
.....Does it have to be under a window at all?

* Do you bake? Do you want a coffee/tea/beverage center?

* What appliances do you plan on having (helps to figure out work flow, work zones, and types of cabinets...upper/lower vs full height, etc.)
.....Range or Cooktop?
.....Single or Double or no Wall Oven?
.....Warming Drawer?
.....MW? (Advantium, drawer, OTR, countertop, built-in, shelf?)
.....DW? Standard or drawers? If drawers, 1 or 2?
.....Refrigerator CD or standard depth?
.....Vent Hood?
Sizes of desired appliances (e.g., 30" or 36" or 48" cooktop; 36" or 42" or 48" wide or other Refrigerator? etc.)

* Pantry: Walk-in or cabinets?

***** Very Important *****

Is there anything you:
* Can't live without?
* Definitely don't want?
* Would like if we can find a way?

This information will be valuable to not only you, but also any Kitchen Designers you may hire or talk to. Additionally, if you've been haunting the site, you'll notice that we also help with almost all aspects of the remodel, including layout help.

If you do ask for help, then all of the above information will help us help you. Sometimes we stray from what you think you want to give you some ideas that you might not have thought of, but it's your kitchen and you can veto anything...we may argue for something (we're good at that!), but in the end it's what you want. And remember, nothing is ever cast in stone here and in the end when you finalize your design it's whatever you want and decide on! After all, this is your kitchen!

Good luck and welcome to the Kitchens Forum!

Links that might be helpful:

Sweeby Test

Kitchen Forum FAQ

Kitchen Forum Acronyms

Beginning a Kitchen Plan

Finished Kitchens Blog

Appliances Forum

Here is a link that might be useful: FKB: SharB's Kitchen (corner range)


clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 07:02 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 07:02 pm

Guidelines & Recommendations (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: buehl on 01.09.2008 at 09:25 am in Kitchens Forum

I just realized that I didn't answer your last question!

There's no "hard and fast" rule, but there are recommendations from the NKBA (National Kitchen & Bath Association). Item #3 addresses work center distances. It says:

In a kitchen with three work centers* the sum of the three traveled distances should total no more than 26 with no single leg of the triangle measuring less than 4 nor more than 9.

When the kitchen plan includes more than three primary appliance/work centers, each additional travel distance to another appliance/work center should measure no less than 4 nor more than 9.

Each leg is measured from the center-front of the appliance/sink.

No work triangle leg intersects an island/peninsula or other obstacle by more than 12".

Remember, as with all guidelines, these are just that...guidelines. Design your kitchen for what works for you!


Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA Kitchen Planning Guidelines with Access Standards


clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 06:46 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 06:47 pm

Please help me identify this faucet......

posted by: smurfette2004 on 01.09.2008 at 01:31 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi all,

Well husband and I have agreed on a faucet we both like - we just don't know what it is.

We saw it in the countertop fabrication display at Costco. I looked all over it (and underneath) for a name or stamp but could not find anything.

Does anyone recognize this faucet or could you recommend a similar non-pullout/non-pulldown faucet?

Thanks in advance!



clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 03:12 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 03:12 pm

Natural stone primer/ granite 101 by stonegirl

posted by: mary_in_nc on 11.04.2007 at 09:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Found this through google search- apparently this was a previous thread in KF by Stonegirl. Felt it worth repeating.

Hi folks -

This is a little article I wrote on another forum and in reply to a few questions regarding the selection of natural stone and stone fabricators.

In an industry that has no set standards, there are a lot of unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued or brushed should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab, looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab. Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This got done at the plant where the slabs were finished and is to add support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.

On cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e. there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure. A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole nother can of worms.

On resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer. Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed does not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but gets resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Now for some pointers on recognizing good craftsmanship and quality fabricators:

Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality and their placement and still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:

- It should be flat. According to the MIA a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.

- It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)

- The color on either side of the seam should match as close as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.

- Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.

- The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.

- The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)

- The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as close as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try an make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

Seam placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

Among the things the fabricator needs to look at when deciding on the seam placement are:

- The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)

- Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available

- Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will impact seam placement here alone.

- Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some don't. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.

- Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -

- Installability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again a 1001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

With modern glues and seaming methods a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam was done well, there would be - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs, and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece.

Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent, would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e. eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.

Like I said earlier - edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.

A good edge should have the following characteristics:

- Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull or waxy.

- The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.

- The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.

- A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.

- A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanised fabrication (i.e. CNC macines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

We have seen some terrible edges in jobs done by our competitors.

Do your research and look at actual kitchens. Talk to clients and ask them about the fabricator. Most good fabricators will not hesitate to supply the names and numbers of clients willing to provide referrals. Do your homework.



clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 02:58 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 02:58 pm

RE: RTA Cabinets (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: mollyred on 01.08.2008 at 05:14 am in Kitchens Forum

Scherrs is great! Even DH, who is quite picky about building and engineering matters, raves about them. For what it would have cost to get fairly basic models of Thomasville or Diamond, without pullouts, self-closing hardware or any non-standard sizing, we got beautiful, well-made cabinetry with all the bells and whistles from Scherrs.

It did take us 3 days to put together our cabinets, but we did a very big kitchen! Also at least half a day of that was due to me, because I'd forgotton Leon's directions as to where to find the assembly instructions, and DH wouldn't lift a screwdriver until he had figured out every detail of the mechanics.

The Scherrs folks are some of the nicest and most responsible people you'll meet in the remodelling industry. So Whynot Minot?


clipped on: 01.08.2008 at 01:52 pm    last updated on: 01.08.2008 at 01:52 pm

RE: Should you mount towel bars on tile walls? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: kgwlisa on 09.06.2007 at 02:07 pm in Bathrooms Forum

The screws on the towel bars I have seems plenty long to go through tile and backer for the tile I am using, but you could probably take the screws to home depot and get longer versions of the same screws if you need to. You just need to drill with the right bit to get through porcelain (can be time consuming with how hard porcelain is though). While you have the walls open, plan for where you are going to put them and add blocking so you can screw right into studs and not mess around with anchors, which may not work so well with the extra thickness.


clipped on: 01.08.2008 at 04:05 am    last updated on: 01.08.2008 at 04:06 am

RE: #@(*! Glass tile is making me crazy - mini subways, other id (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: rococogurl on 07.19.2007 at 03:24 pm in Bathrooms Forum

First of all I would tile all the way to the ceiling on the main shower wall and on the window wall. I'd go over the window, tile the jut out, and behind the heating pipe. I have the same bathroom and the verticals make it look narrower. I'd get rid of them.

As for the horizontals -- If the mini subs are too expensive, why not use mosaic squares, which might save you as much as $6/foot?

Let me show you a bathroom done like that which I feel is gorgeous. I love the way that looks. I'd also run the color around the as a border at the same height as the top of the window, to create a line there and make it look more integral. There are 3 or 4 different sizes of tile done in the same color and it looks very rich. If the subs on the walls had been white and the borders and floor were the same then that also would be nice.

My friend only did wainscot tile because she doesn't have a regular shower in that bath, as you can see. But they put the rail at exactly the right height to tie in the window. I'm suggesting the reverse for yours, essentially.

Also, I'm not loving the very dark floor with nothing to tie it into on top. If you did a wenge look floor and then some java colored glass mosaics in the border it would make more sense to me than 3 colors that don't relate. The floor will look like an afterthought otherwise IMO. Alternately, use tile in one of the border colors on the floor.


clipped on: 01.08.2008 at 01:12 am    last updated on: 01.08.2008 at 01:20 am

RE: Dish cloth or sponge? And where do you store it between uses? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: gibby3000 on 11.11.2007 at 11:55 am in Kitchens Forum

I use both but use a dishcloth alot more. The sponge is more of a scrubby for scrubbing rather than wiping counters, etc. I store both under the sink in here.

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clipped on: 01.07.2008 at 06:58 pm    last updated on: 01.07.2008 at 06:58 pm

RE: Double Ovens versus Big Stove (with double ovens) (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: zelmar on 01.07.2008 at 11:41 am in Kitchens Forum

I'm glad we ended up with a 48" range. I like having a small oven and large oven. We seem to use the small oven about 90% of the time. The large oven comes in handy when needed. I like the idea of heating a smaller space for the majority of our oven use. My 87-year-old mother seems to use the "low" range ovens just fine. I think lifting a lasagna up to a higher oven would be a problem for her (especially since she broke her shoulder a few years ago and her range of motion has suffered because of it.)

I'm all for convenience and would never get a low mw because I find them hard to see into and the controls hard to see. Neither of these problems are an issue with the range since the controls are at counter height and the racks slide out (and the viewing angle is better even without the racks pulled out--at least for the bottom rack.)

We maximized our window space and sacrificed wall area in the process. I prefer using the limited space for tall cabinets for pantry items where hunting for things at eye level can be helpful.

As weismann has pointed out, I have found the hood to be a good thing over the oven, especially when the kitchen gets over heated. I'm pretty sure the vent helps pull out the hot air from the oven vents.

And visually, I really like a range. We have an older house and the black range seems to fit with the style better. I guess it would be considered the focal point.

Good luck with your decision. You really can't go wrong (since both configurations seem to have many fans.)


clipped on: 01.07.2008 at 02:26 pm    last updated on: 01.07.2008 at 02:26 pm

RE: Double Ovens versus Big Stove (with double ovens) (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: weissman on 01.07.2008 at 09:27 am in Kitchens Forum

Another advantage of a range is that you can have a vent hood over it which will vent the exhaust from the ovens.


clipped on: 01.07.2008 at 02:23 pm    last updated on: 01.07.2008 at 02:23 pm

RE: Double Ovens versus Big Stove (with double ovens) (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: sahsah on 01.07.2008 at 12:51 am in Kitchens Forum

homersgarden ,

I too, grappled with the same decision. I had a 42" range,
with 2 ovens & didn't want to go down to a smaller range. I bought a 48" Five Star, 6 burner, dual fuel, convection, 2 ovens--1 gas w/broiler & 1 electric, self clean, grill/griddle. It was considerably less than a Wolf, etc & also less than what it would cost to buy the cabinets for the ovens & range top plus the 3 appliances. The unexpected plus was the way we use the griddle almost everyday, for all meals. Also, my DH has taken a liking to the griddle.
The lowness of the oven does not bother me as I have no mobility issues. When I get too old to use the ovens it will not matter as I should be a bit shorter by then!


clipped on: 01.07.2008 at 02:22 pm    last updated on: 01.07.2008 at 02:22 pm

RE: Appliance garage or not? Plzzz help decide (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: zelmar on 01.07.2008 at 09:14 am in Kitchens Forum

We have 2 appliance garages and I really like them. I feel as though they "anchor" the upper cabinets and make the kitchen feel more cohesive. This is particularly true at the ends of cabinet runs, the way you have them placed. And I like that they are a quick space to stash clutter when I need to clean up quickly--much better than having the misc. items that accumulate sitting on the counter. Some may consider it a waste of space--I consider it very useful (we don't let items accumulate there for any length of time since that would impact the ease of pulling out the appliances.) Along with our appliances, we also keep tall bottles in the garages--we would have no place for them, otherwise (liquor bottles, tall bottles of olive oil.) They have also been used to store bulky snack bags when we accumulate more than the usual for guests.

I'm concerned that the proportions of your garages would be awkward. I think having the appliance garage narrower than the upper cabinet door could make it look like an after thought rather than an extension of the upper cabinet (but maybe that's just something that jumps out for me on paper and wouldn't make a visual difference in the actual kitchen.) It seems that the appliance garage is usually sized relative to the upper cabinet rather than the lower one.

I like the look of some appliances on the counter. We use our garages for lesser-used appliances such as our food processor, rice cooker and bread maker. Our toaster oven, blender, mixer and coffee maker live out in the open. We have quite a bit of counter space which may be one reason I feel the appliance garages work well for us. After living with them, I would consider putting them in again, even if they were just for extra storage rather than for appliances. In our kitchen, storage space is in more demand than counterspace.


clipped on: 01.07.2008 at 01:30 pm    last updated on: 01.07.2008 at 01:30 pm

RE: Appliance garage or not? Plzzz help decide (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: linda-z on 01.07.2008 at 08:32 am in Kitchens Forum

Ok, here is the contrarian. I like my garages, a lot! I have one for my breadmaker, one for our coffeemaker, and one for our toaster. Before the redo, my counters were so cluttered that perhaps I went to the extreme. On the other hand, I have a large island and peninsula, so counter space is not an issue. I think that would have been my deciding factor...did I have counter space to spare vs. cabinet space to store?

Here is the coffee one. I like that there is still landing space there, since it is diagonal to my refrigerator.


Here is the toaster oven. The cabinet above holds the kitchen TV, which is on a pullout.


And here is the breadmaker garage:


So, after all this, as I re-read your post, Raehelen is right. 16" x 11" is not huge; it looks like its about the same size as my coffee garage. I have my krups coffee pot in there, 3 or 4 travel mugs, and my vitamins.



clipped on: 01.07.2008 at 01:30 pm    last updated on: 01.07.2008 at 01:30 pm

RE: Show Me Your Subway Tile Backsplashes (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: athomedad on 12.28.2007 at 12:34 pm in Kitchens Forum


The tiles are by Sonoma Tilemakers. It's their Artisan series in a color called "Java". It's more beigy than off-white, and the tiles are hand made, so they don't look exactly the same. The tile "frame" around the mosaic tiles above the range are also Sonoma Tilemakers, as are the raised rosettes in the center. They make many different styles, colors and finishes.
I ended up with larger grout lines than I originally wanted, so that we wouldn't have to use half tiles. I now think the larger grout lines help make the kitchen look more "old fashioned", which was the look I was going for.
I also used "plugmold' outlets under the cabinets, so the back splash is visually uninterrupted by electrical outlets or switches.


The area above the stove(and all of the back splash), are very easy to maintain. I'm not sure if it's because I don't cook things that end up splashing a lot(my cooking skills leave lots to be desired), or that I try to use the front burners as often as I can and splashes can't reach the back splash. I also think using the exhaust fan above the range helps keep things cleaner.

When my DW and I first started talking about redoing the kitchen, she left all the decisions up to me, and I think that helped make a very stressful process much more enjoyable. I was truly lucky to have such a supportive spouse!



clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 10:15 pm    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 10:15 pm

I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

posted by: sharb on 10.30.2007 at 02:17 pm in Kitchens Forum

We learn so much AFTER the remodel is completed.

My pantry suggestion, after living with my new pantry for almost a year now, is to ventilate your pantry. My foods are picking up odors from the pantry and I hate the taste. Even a fairly new box of cereal takes on this taste. I'm going to have to get someone out here to help me remedy this.

Another suggestion while I'm at it.. I would put all electrical switches in the kitchen/dining area grouped in one spot. I suggested this during construction and was told that would not be most efficient.. I should not have listened. I would like to stand in one spot and regulate the lighting from there. Why walk around the room searching for switches?

Just thought I would pass along a couple of things that irritate me so that I might be able to help someone else.



clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 02:53 pm    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 02:53 pm

Modern kitchen in Bauhaus home

posted by: evergreendan on 09.16.2007 at 10:54 am in Kitchens Forum

I posted this already in the regular discussion area, but apparently FKB needs it posted here. So here it is.

Slide show (long)

Home style: Bauhus modern, built in 1965, white vertical siding, walls of glass.
Cabinets: Custom curly sycamore on Medex with maple plywood boxes, Valli & Valli pulls, soft-close drawers.
Countertops: 3cm Honed Absoulte black.
Bartop: 8/8 African Pearwood (Moabi), bookmatched slabs.
Backsplash: Bisazza Logos 24"x24" glass aglomerate tile
Shades: Draper Flexshade motorized shades
Lighting: 6" cans with Crestron infiNet dimmers/controllers; Seagul 12v Xenon undercabinet, with transformer hidden behind false panel above range hood.
Thermador Freedom 18" freezer and 30" fridge
Bluestar RNB36 6-burner range
Kitchenaid built-in microwave
Miele dishwasher
Miele washer & dryer
KWC Matterhorn sink & Blanco Precision prep sink
Hans Grohe ADA compliant pull-down faucets
Hunley InstaHot dispenser w/ filter

Special features:
Fridge / Freezer panel extends to ceiling; Freezer trim bezel elminated for cleaner look.
Floodstop of ice dispenser and washer, connect to alarm in Crestron control system
Dynaudio in-ceiling speaker connected to basement audio rack
4 large pots-and-pans drawers.
Custom dividers in 4 main cutlery / sharps / utensil drawers
Pull-out shelf in cabinet for toaster oven and coffee grinder
"McDonalds" style hidden custom trash can with pull-out wood trashcan on casters
Undercabinet paper towel dispenser and 2 plastic bag recycling / dispensers.
Pneumatic pushbutton disposer buttons.
Never-MT soap dispensers
Aluminum plug mold with blank section behind sink (on GFCI)
Hood lights wired to undercabinet dimmer.
Phone niche with false panel concealing outlet, phone/internet/cable connections, and wireless access point.
4 drawers with in-drawer plugmold, wired to retractile cord and plugged into hidden outlets behind drawers.
Food pantry drawers, 2 shallow ones for cans, 2 deep ones for containers, plus upper cabinet with 4 pull-out trays behind a door.
Washer/dryer cabinet built with studs removed behind it for extra depth, plus external cold air supply so dryer can run with doors shut. Booze storage above, with hidden removable back panel to access plugs for washer, dryer, and floodstop.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 01:36 pm    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 01:37 pm

RE: Cool cabinet 'insides' ideas... (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: revans1 on 09.19.2007 at 08:25 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here are ours....Alno is the brand...

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clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 05:50 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 05:50 am

RE: Cool cabinet 'insides' ideas... (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: evergreendan on 09.19.2007 at 05:41 pm in Kitchens Forum

Custom Dividers for cutlery, sharps, flipper, etc. I have 4 organized drawers.

Deep base drawers for pots & pan, serving dishes, salad spinner, etc.

Waist-height drawer for tupperware -- so much easier than in a base cabinet or upper cabinet.

I have power in a drawer for cell phones, similar idea to above. I have 4 of these -- one for each family member so that's where their junk goes when cleaning up. (Got that idea from a friend.)

Pull-out shelf for toaster oven & coffee grinder. (Can grind behind closed door ahh, quiet. Outlet in back.

Hidden niche for phone jack, power, internet. I have mine behind a false cabinet back, but others have put it just below the counter in a base cabinet. Use a grommet.

I have a unique "McDonalds" flapper trash cabinet, with the trash can on wheels (rolls right out).

Shallow pantry drawers for cans (on their backs so you can read the labels), plus deep ones for cereal, etc.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 05:49 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 05:49 am

RE: Cool cabinet 'insides' ideas... (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: beatrix_in_canada on 09.19.2007 at 04:11 pm in Kitchens Forum

The best solution for me was the pull-out pantry. We also have a recycling pull-out. And I love my spice drawer!


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 05:47 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 05:48 am

RE: Planning my cabs - what's your favorite cabinet feature? (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: kitchenkelly on 11.05.2007 at 07:41 pm in Kitchens Forum

One thing I had done was add a few outlets inside of cabinets. That was you can have items that need to be plugged in out of sight. Like a dustbuster or battery chargers.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 05:43 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 05:43 am

RE: How to deal with kitchen recycling/trash ? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: owl_at_home on 01.04.2008 at 02:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am building a house, and this is something I was really concerned about, too, when designing our kitchen.

I found some slide-out trash containers (at Home Depot) that each have two cans, one behind the other. I bought two of them and put them right next to each other so there are four containers in total. They are going in an undercab, and I'm having fronts made for what will appear to be doors but will hook to the front of the sliders and pull the cans out two at a time. I'm planning to designate one for trash, one for cans, one for glass and plastic, and one for paper/burnables. The only thing I haven't figured out yet is what to do with large cardboard. I may be able to keep it, flattened, inside my pantry.

I'm sorry I can't post a picture, but we're still building and don't actually have this installed yet. I posted a similar question, "How do you organize your recycling," on the organization forum, and got several responses if you want to check that out.

Good luck!


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 05:37 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 05:37 am

RE: How long to plan? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: plllog on 12.16.2007 at 05:00 pm in Kitchens Forum

There are actually more stages besides "planning" and "doing". I'm in the same stage you are, I think: Education.

These are the stages of remodelling:

I. "Idea" or "Dreaming": This is when you look at what you've got and think you want something else. You start looking at pictures in magazines or online or on TV. They have nothing to do with your particular room, but you start to get a sense of the style you like. You start saving money for the "but we're going to remodel" kitty.

II. Education: You learn about the various things that go into the project. You figure out why the old one isn't working for you and what you can do to fix it. You learn what will and won't fit into your room, your budget, your lifestyle. People you know who've been through it (and the lovely, generous people on GW) tell you about all the tricks and details you might never have found (plugmold, tapmaster, air switch, etc.).

III. Planning (overlaps II and IV): You work on the actual layout for the room, the flow, the work stations, the actual sizes of appliances, cabinets, etc., and how they'll work and interact. This is when you hire a KD or other person helping you with the design.

IV. Finishes: You choose the exact countertop, stain/paint, faucet, knobs, etc.

V. Preparation: Move all your stuff out of the way. Set up your temporary quarters. Pin down all the details that pop up saying, "what about me?" Set your calendar. Pray a lot.

V. Demo and Construction: You might hire the people doing the work earlier in the process and have them helping with the design, but it's a lot easier in the long run if you have the design and purchases lined up before you actually start this stage. Change orders are very expensive, and, as has been reported here, demo before the delayed whatever (especially cabinets) has arrived can make the process worse.

VI. Final Details: Touch up paint. Add switch plates and other details. Fix the little things that aren't quite done or are a little askew. Resolve any disputes. Sign off on the job when everything is satisfactory then pay folks your final payments.

VII. Moving and Learning: Fit your favorite old things and shiny new ones into the new space. Learn how to use the new appliances and make your recipes come out right. Figure out the new traffic patterns. Make the space yours.

VIII. Party time! Share your new space with friends and family and post your pics on GW!


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 04:59 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 05:00 am

RE: plugmold - sitting on backsplash, or between backsplash & cab (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: nuccia on 11.09.2007 at 08:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

My plug mold is mounted between my cabinets and backsplash at a 45 degree angle. I saw this on someone's posting and showed it to my GC who thought it looked great (it does). He had the cabinet installers rip a piece of maple matching my cabinets at a 45 degree angle and the electricians then mounted the plugmold. I especially like that I don't have to lean under and crane my neck to figure out where the plugs are. This technique also eliminates the knuckle-scraping problems mentioned above. It can also solve some wiring issues because you could fish wire across the back. I have stainless plugmold installed and love the way it looks.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 04:31 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:31 am

RE: angled plugmold? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: needanap on 12.18.2007 at 08:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

Plugmold is just a strip of outlets. It can be used in place of traditional outlets so as not to interrupt the backsplash. Most people mount it at the top of the backsplash, just under the cabinets, so it is out of sight, but I've also seen it mounted along the bottom, where the counter and backsplash meet (then you don't see dangling cords). I've also seen it used on the side of an island, under the granite edge. Most plugmold is flat, but they also make an angled version, which fits neatly in the corner, to make it easier to plug things in. However, I believe angled plugmold is much more expensive. My installer used flat plugmold, but mounted it on an angled block of wood, to achieve the same result. I love it! Having it on the angle makes it very easy to use. I did not put in any traditional outlets as buehl suggests, because I don't leave any of my appliances plugged in all the time. Just depends on your needs. Here is a picture of mine.
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clipped on: 01.05.2008 at 10:50 pm    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:29 am

RE: Plugmold-Do these replace outlets in backsplash? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: sweeby on 11.09.2007 at 07:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

You can GFI the whole circuit - That's what we did.

If the boxes are for a disposal switch, that can be replaced by an airswitch (great invention, those), or by a low-profile box mounted into the recess at the bottom of your cabinet.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 04:27 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:27 am

RE: Plugmold-Do these replace outlets in backsplash? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: talley_sue_nyc on 11.09.2007 at 07:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

If you mention GFI'ing the whole circuit by using a GFI circuit breaker, electricians often say, "it's more expensive!" as if somehow it's the end of the world.

But it's like $60 per circuit breaker, or something. (it can be more; a 50A one can run over $120). Which is somewhere like $50 to $40 more expensive than an ordinary breaker.

Not enough to make me decide not to do it.

You can also install a GFI outlet or switch as the first junction box in the circuit, and that takes care of the whole thing.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 01:14 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:27 am

RE: Best advice from this forum (Follow-Up #93)

posted by: tklahr on 12.22.2007 at 02:51 pm in Kitchens Forum

This forum has been such an unbelievable help during our remodel. But the piece of advice that has been my favorite has been the suggestion to post reminders around the kitchen for those working there.

We may have gone a little overboard, but we had scaled drawings, pictures, and sketches taped to walls and cabinets all over the kitchen. A sketch of the island layout, a drawing with dimensions for light fixtures and switches, a sketch showing the spacing of shelves, a picture of how we wanted plugmold installed - you name it, we had it on a piece of paper and taped on a wall.

When we would discuss anything with the electrician, plumber, etc., usually we would show them a drawing or sketch so they would know exactly what we were looking for. Then we would post it on the wall in the kitchen. It may have been slightly annoying to those working there, but it was amazing how much it helped. A number of times after someone screwed something up I would just point to a drawing and they would immediately have to take the blame and offer to fix it. There was never any chance to claim that we never told them or that we had said something else. It was right there on the wall the whole time. Plus, since DW and I both work full-time, we could rarely be home to answer questions and remind them of all the little details. If someone was unsure about something or just forgot what was discussed, there was a good chance they could just look at a drawing and get their answer instead of ASSUMING the answer and getting it wrong.

So, whoever originally posted that wonderful suggestion, and everyone else who has taken the time to share their advice, THANK YOU!


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 04:23 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:24 am

RE: Best advice from this forum (Follow-Up #74)

posted by: klb_2000 on 11.07.2007 at 12:41 am in Kitchens Forum

Something I don't think has been mentioned yet....take pictures of everything while your walls are open. It is very helpful to have that photographic record of where electic, pipes, studs etc actually are.

Also, plan for where you want to install pot/wall racks, shelf brackets, etc--and add extra framing in the walls before they get closed up.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 04:16 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:16 am

RE: Best advice from this forum (Follow-Up #72)

posted by: imrainey on 11.06.2007 at 12:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

For me it was definitely the Tapmaster. I had already seen a DIY bit on kitchens where someone discussed how much they liked the dental office type floor pedals. So I knew I wanted foot operated water. But I had no idea that there was something so sleek and so much more utilitarian.

I've enjoyed trying out ideas here and hearing about other method and resources but the Tapmaster was the big "ah-ha!" that I'll always be grateful for.


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 04:15 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:15 am

RE: Best advice from this forum (Follow-Up #38)

posted by: igloochic on 09.06.2007 at 03:06 am in Kitchens Forum

Don't pack your booze prior to remodeling (this is VERY important! VERY IMPORTANT!)

And Lacanche :)

Oh there is so much more....caulk on change of planes verses grout...look at the underside of your cabinets....and mostly that you're not the only person remodeling your home, (read...the only person suffering) and you have a place you belong...(read...with the nutcases here) oh and morgue drawers :)


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 04:02 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 04:02 am

RE: Best advice from this forum (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: jkom51 on 07.18.2007 at 01:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

1) Measure from 3 points wall to wall. Had I known this when we remodeled the entire house in 1990, I would now have the room to put in a pro-style range. As it is, I am exactly....1/4" short. Talk about frustrating! Our cabs are in great shape and I love them, but I'm stuck with the 29-7/8" width on the range. Grrrrr..........

2) Full extension drawer slides, finished side panels, and finished bottoms on the upper cabs are no longer standard, as they were when we bought our Kraftmaid Euro6 cabs. Had I not read that here, our next house (we plan to move in 5 yrs or so) would need some emergency reorders or retrofits for those small but crucial items!


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 03:43 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 03:43 am

RE: Best advice from this forum (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: sweeby on 07.17.2007 at 11:24 am in Kitchens Forum

Great idea for a thread!

I already had my kitchen designed and cabinets ordered before finding this group, so that only leaves little things, but:

- Test tube rack for spice storage
- Air switch for a disposal on my island
- and how great Silgranit sinks are to live with


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 03:39 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 03:39 am

RE: Outlet on Island--Problem. (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: gizmonike on 11.02.2007 at 09:52 am in Kitchens Forum

We used a drawer space above our trash pullout to install outlets. The drawer front flips up & out of the way to use it.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 01:26 am    last updated on: 01.06.2008 at 01:29 am

RE: What is Plugmold? Can I still install it? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: talley_sue_nyc on 11.15.2007 at 09:55 am in Kitchens Forum

also, I'm not sure about that "6 inches from edge" idea.

The national code, as I understand it, is that no place on the counter (even an island) should be more than 24" from an outlet. That's because most appliance cords are 24", and they don't want you using extension cords.

And whoever told buehl that she/he couldn't put the whole strip on GFCI (or GF*) either wasn't clear or was just plain wrong. You can put an entire CIRCUIT on GFCI by using a circuit break that's GFCI. (in fact, you could put the whole kitchen or the whole house on GFCI using those circuit breakers if you wanted to; it's just that it's not necessary, would be overkill).

Those circuit breakers are more expensive than normal ones; maybe $60 instead of $10. I've seen GFCI (or GFI) breakers that were $130, and regular breakers that were $9. But capacity varied as well.

You can also get GFCI protection on a circuit by putting a GFCI outlet or switch as the first receptacle on the line. (of course, the GFCI outlet will be more expensive than a regular outlet, as well; but the price difference isn't as dramatic--$14 instead of $7)


clipped on: 01.05.2008 at 10:51 pm    last updated on: 01.05.2008 at 10:52 pm