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30 and 36" Wide Drawers is there a rule for pull sizes?

posted by: lucas_tx on 03.04.2013 at 07:12 am in Kitchens Forum

Haven't selected hardware yet but will have a number of drawers that are 30 and 36" wide. They will be the paneled type not slabs.

One cab is split top and and will have two 18" wide drawers as well.

Any rules of thumb I should use in evaluating hardware? We will use some type of bar pull.



clipped on: 03.19.2013 at 03:17 am    last updated on: 03.19.2013 at 03:17 am

RE: Installing A Vent Hood - DIY (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: live_wire_oak on 02.12.2012 at 12:37 pm in Kitchens Forum

You install blocking or plywood in the wall behind the drywall. Then the backsplash is installed over that. Then the mounting points are drilled into the stud/blocking/plywood. Different manufacturers have different methods, but if you have the wood behind the wall, it'll all work out fine.


clipped on: 03.18.2013 at 08:10 pm    last updated on: 03.18.2013 at 08:11 pm

Finished Kitchen - 20 pounds of sand in a 10 pound bucket

posted by: mamadadapaige on 10.29.2012 at 08:19 am in Kitchens Forum

Not sure if you remember last spring when I was working on the layout of my kitchen... super long list of stuff I had to get in there and a very challenging floorplan with a chimney and two staircases to work around.

You were all so helpful during that time and more recently too with lighting decisions.

My number one priority was seating for four and also being able to have the kids work with me - the peninsula allows both of those and it is working out SO well. I also love having so much more natural light coming in with two new windows (although the windows mean less wall cabinet space but I love having the light so I would still opt for this).

Here are some before pictures:
And After Pictures






clipped on: 03.18.2013 at 07:01 pm    last updated on: 03.18.2013 at 07:05 pm

RE: Air gaps - which cover is the least of the cheesy? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: wa8b on 04.02.2010 at 01:52 pm in Kitchens Forum

If your walls are still open, you can avoid an air gap in the countertop all together by installing a devise known as a "Johnson T" or sometimes "Johnson Tee". It's essentially an air gap that is vented through the wall above or near the dishwasher. The one in my house is vented through the outside wall, so it's not seen in the kitchen at all. All that's seen on the exterior wall is a round disk, about 2" in diameter. The disk can be painted, so it becomes practically invisible. I've also seen them vented through the inside wall in the backsplash, but in those cases, the vent cover is usually are about an inch in diameter and has a more decorative chrome or other metal finish. The big advantage of having the vent on the wall, rather than on the countertop, is that it's one less thing to have to work around when you're wiping up the counters.



clipped on: 04.03.2010 at 02:18 am    last updated on: 04.03.2010 at 02:18 am

Contemporary/Modern kitchen just about done!

posted by: scottdim on 04.02.2010 at 10:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Its been a long road, we started our demo in mid December and are finally just about done. Still need to get some window treatments, a few little things here and there and clean, clean, clean. Its unbelievable how dirty the rest of the house got during this process. No matter how much tape and plastic you use, the dust still finds a way into everything!

Here are the before pictures. It was a small U-shaped kitchen in which the prior owners added onto. They added another row of shallow cabinets along the far wall. This was nice for additional storage, but didn't flow well with the kitchen since you had to leave the "U" to get to it.



To make the kitchen more functional, we removed the U and turned it into an L-shape. This really opened up the room and helped everything flow together. The lower cabinets as shown in the first picture outside the U were brought out from 18 inches to 25 inches allowing more storage space. We also added a beverage center and a trash drawer. Everything was built custom (which turned out to be good and bad).


My wife wanted an island, but the kitchen was way too small for that so we ended up doing an island cart that tucks away at the end of the L as shown here


Cart easily slides out for use :)

More pics

Finally we added a pantry on this far wall which also holds our microwave. As you could see from the Before pics, we had an OTR microwave. Utilizing this wall gave us some much needed space after putting in the range hood!


It feels nice to be almost done!!

Click on the link below to see tons more pics including close ups of the backsplashes

Let me know what you think, good or bad :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Finished kitchen pics!


clipped on: 04.03.2010 at 01:49 am    last updated on: 04.03.2010 at 01:49 am

RE: placement of recessed lighting cans - help, please! (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: wa8b on 03.31.2010 at 09:19 pm in Kitchens Forum

You want the cans above the counters. One fixture every 3'-4'. If you mount them in the ceiling behind where you'll be standing, you'll always be working in your shadow.

You might also want to think about some general ambient lighting. If all of your fixtures are recessed, the floors will be illuminated, but the upper reaches of the room and ceiling will appear dark. Adding a more ordinary ceiling-mounted light fixture or two, will provide you with more even room lighting. I usually like to switch the general fixtures separately from the recessed fixtures and use dimmers. That way you can adjust the two types of lighting for balance and to suit your work or activity.


clipped on: 04.01.2010 at 03:04 am    last updated on: 04.01.2010 at 03:04 am

Now, you're done-what do you wish you had known while planning?

posted by: eks6426 on 02.23.2010 at 08:54 pm in Kitchens Forum

For those of you with finished kitchens, what do you wish you had known? What's in your kitchen that you think "this isn't quite right...if only I had done...such and such?"

I've made most of my choices. Cabinets get delivered this week. I'm now double guessing everything and wondering what I'm going to find that I should have done differently. I'm sure others who are only in the planning period would love to hear what others have learned...


clipped on: 03.30.2010 at 05:01 am    last updated on: 03.30.2010 at 05:01 am

sink support

posted by: lindalp on 03.27.2010 at 04:23 pm in Kitchens Forum

Is there any "cradle system" available that will help support the kitchen sink?
Our silgrant sink was undermounted yesterday, with that "screw system". What worries me, is that the support is on the short sides of the sink. I think I'd feel better if there was a way to add additional support. Am I just worried for nothing?


clipped on: 03.29.2010 at 03:53 am    last updated on: 03.29.2010 at 03:53 am

RE: Sad day! (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: azstoneconsulting on 03.26.2010 at 01:14 pm in Kitchens Forum

Depending on the material size and the size of your applicaion - you'll
either HAVE a seam or you wont.

There's ways of getting your seams to be super tight and chip free -
I TEACH that technique at AZ School of Rock....

There's also a new seaming system that works perfectly on ALL Natural Stone
Engineered Stone and ALL "GREEN" Countertops (Bottlestone included)
it's called the Accu-Seam

There is a DIY version coming out in April - as well as the Pro Models -
Fabricators are using the Accu-Seam, along with the Seam Phantom, Gorilla Grips
and OmniCubed SSVCA and getting REALLY COOL RESULTS!!!



Here is a link that might be useful: Accu-Seam


clipped on: 03.27.2010 at 03:36 am    last updated on: 03.27.2010 at 03:36 am

Induction Cookware

posted by: shar18 on 02.11.2010 at 09:46 pm in Appliances Forum

Thanks to everyone for all the valuable advise. Getting ready to put the final decision on the Miele induction cooktop, but last minute hesitation at the Williams Sonoma store today, where they said that the Copper Core All Clad does not work on induction. Any experienced thoughts on that? What stockpots can be used, since that is one not usable from All Clad.

Going to an NBA all star event this weekend at Cantoni, that will have reps from Miele, Gaggenau, Bosch and Thermador....Very anxious to pick their brains on steam ovens and induction vs. gas.


clipped on: 03.26.2010 at 04:18 pm    last updated on: 03.26.2010 at 04:18 pm

Morton5's Finished Kitchen: Ikea and Fire and Ice

posted by: morton5 on 05.27.2009 at 11:49 pm in Kitchens Forum

We completed our kitchen seven months ago, but I've procrastinated on posting finished photos. Here they are at last!
Thanks to all for your many helpful ideas and comments as I went through the process.

I planned the kitchen myself-- a little tricky as the room is not rectangular. I originally planned a white/soapstone kitchen, but ended up going with a more earthy scheme because the kitchen is open to the FR, and also I thought the colors would be more family and pet friendly-- we have 5 kids, a dog and a cat. We are all very happy with our new space, and the surfaces are indeed forgiving.

We remodeled mainly because I disliked the downdraft range on my island. Plus, the cabinets were looking pretty shabby and some of the doors were splitting. I cook a lot, often for a big crowd, and I am loving the efficiency of my new kitchen.

Here are the details:
Cabinets: Ikea Tidaholm oak in black/brown, and Adel birch in medium brown (in pantry area and planning peninsula). I chose Ikea because I love their organization systems and their Blum tandembox drawers and glides. I assembled all of the cabinets myself and changed the edgebanding to match the door/drawer fronts. I was kind of excited to find "Made in Italy" stickers on all the Tidaholm doors. My GC's carpenter installed the cabinets. All drawers are full extension with soft close.
Pulls: Hickory Hardware
Granite: Madura Gold
Backsplash: Jeffrey Court's Fire and Ice, enhanced, kashmir grout (thanks Jodi in SoCal for the inspiration)
Range: Bluestar 36" RNB with island trim. The cabinet run on the range wall is pulled out 3 inches.
Hood: Futuro Futuro 48" plane (980 cfm)
Ovens: GE Monogram Advantium over ZET
Dishwasher: Bosch Integra 800 series
Refrigerator: Samsung French door RFG297. We pulled out surrounding cabs to make the fridge look built-in.
"Kid fridge" 24" LG LRBP1031 in Titanium-- love it! Holds the kids' yogurts, drinks, fruit, ice cream, frozen baked goods, ice packs-- and keeps the kids out of my way. In the same footprint as refrigerator drawers, I got twice the space at half the price. Between the Samsung and the LG, I have almost 40 cu. ft. of refrigerator/freezer space.
Faucets: Grohe K4 (prep sink) and Alira (main sink)
Tapmaster at main sink
Soap dispensers from Never MT web site
Sinks: Zero radius, 15 gauge stainless from Ebay-- 30" at main sink and 23" at prep sink
Table: Oak from reclaimed antique floor joists, from Ebay (
Chairs: Bonded leather from Overstock-- love them
Floors: Red oak, Refinished and stained Minwax golden oak, 3 coats of oil-based poly
I kept my old kitchen light fixture and ceiling fixture. I'm still planning on adding a couple of puck lights to the shelf behind the hood-- I have outlets at the tops of the high cabs, with a switch next to the range.

Thanks for looking!


Here is a link that might be useful: Morton5's finished kitchen


clipped on: 03.26.2010 at 03:53 pm    last updated on: 03.26.2010 at 03:54 pm

RE: Has this happened to you? I don't care for my kitchen (Follow-Up #59)

posted by: boxerpups on 02.20.2010 at 09:45 am in Kitchens Forum


I love the idea of going through your closet (Smiling)
and looking for colors that you love and don't even
know you love.

And I also agree with the idea of pulling some warm colors
to bring the wood floor to it's glory.

Here are some ideas that pop into my mind when I look
at your kitchen. But keep in mind that these are thing
I would do and would not be the least insulted if you
found them to be UGLY. Remember my taste comes out
of my ear sometimes. : )

1) paint the back wall of the glass cabinet
a favorite color. So when you look at the wine glasses
you see a punch of color. And if you are afraid to paint
the cabs you can try to put shees of paper against the wall
to see if you like the idea and then tape them down.
Good paper is the scap booking kind you can find at
Target, Walmart or Joann's fabric

2) find some fun art you love. I love wine posters.

I can't help it I am a boxer fan.

I love this one gives me a feeling of romance



The simple wine label

I love green with your floors and other elements. Again.
I am a green addict.

Plants always add an earthly peice

Some wood that matches the floor but now up on the counter.
helps pull that warm into the cool. Lovely.

window coverings

Okay maybe not this color but a fabric shade
with your favorite print. There are some inexpensive
patterns from JoAnn fabrics.

Palladian Blue Ben Moore

See how great the wood looks with this color
This color is called Woodlawn Blue by Ben Moore

or maybe soft celery

or maybe beach glass. This beautiful punch of
color will excite the room

Okay this color is a bit shocking but this color
would is an extreme difference to the cool colors.
So if you feel the cool colors are not going well
no one would notice the eye would be drawn to the
brightness of this Sangria BM color and the cool
colors would remain strong. I know if you dislike
red this one is out. ( I did say I won't be the
least bit insulted if every idea I suggest is tossed out,
I just want you to know you are not alone and ideas
only generate new ideas and one of them is bound to be
helpful to you.) Hugs!

Rhubarb BM

or maybe a Soft Marigold BM

Repaint the dog food bowls in a safe paint or just
the outside of the bowls.

Add a favorite vase. Walk around your house or closets
and find things you have stuffed away. Find a small
tube of paint. Repaint them a bright fun color
and use this as an accent for your counters or cabinets.

a fun mirror even a tiny one can add interest

Okay, Okay, I am driving you and everyone nuts with this
shopping for ideas.
Enjoy or chuck them.
Just know you will fall in love with your space again.


clipped on: 03.23.2010 at 05:38 pm    last updated on: 03.23.2010 at 05:38 pm

Finished IKEA kitchen: Tidaholm & soapstone

posted by: sw_in_austin on 02.06.2010 at 06:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

After some encouragement on the recent IKEA Kitchens thread, I finally decided to post our finished kitchen. I've kind of gone crazy with the pictures and descriptions; I hope it's not too much.

We are more than happy with our decision to use IKEA cabinets. They cost about $6,000 less than a comparable kitchen done with Kraft Maid in maple. Because we saved those dollars we felt comfortable spending more on the soapstone and the backsplash. And we are completely happy with how the cabinets look and function. Who knew I could love full-extension, soft-close drawers so much? If I had any doubts they were put to rest when our somewhat snooty neighbor came in and looked around and said, "Nice. Are they custom?"

The old kitchen was original to the house, which was built in 1945. The cabinets were painted metal, there was no dishwasher, too little storage, and counters were crowded with microwave, toaster oven, and dish drainer. We lived with it for 15 years (we intended to redo it much sooner but other projects -- two kids not the least of those -- intervened).

The kitchen functioned well, layout-wise, and we left the main elements in place. We removed a strange peninsula at one end of the long side and took the wall between kitchen and dining room (behind the stove in the picture below) down to half-height. We took out a door to the backyard that we never used and replaced it with a window. We took out a hot water heater closet (and put in an on-demand unit that hangs on an exterior wall), which gave us 4 additional linear feet of cabinets and counters.

Here is the old kitchen, taken as we were packing up. I did give up my O'Keefe & Merritt stove, which I loved as a sculptural object and for sentimental reasons, but the need for a stove with a smaller footprint and a bigger oven won the day.

Here is the new kitchen:

At the last minute we decided to make a space within our new pantry (white doors at right below) to house the microwave. It got the micro off the main counter and having it out of the way is just fine. The pantry was custom-built to fit in the space of what had been a shallow regular-height closet. Now it gives us floor to ceiling storage.

We pulled the base cabinets next to the refrigerator out 5 inches to keep our existing frig from sticking out; the counters here are about 30 inches deep. We also hung 30-inch-tall uppers here (others are 39-inch) with a floating shelf (of IKEA butcher block) below.

We had a cart built of butcher block and steel from the local welding shop that slides under the counter. The bookshelf above was built of the same materials. The black cabinet at right was built by our carpenter to fit a shallow spot to the right of the new window. One slab of soapstone took care of most of the counters, but using butcher block over this section worked out perfectly.

Sills for the new windows made of soapstone tiles. Much better than the old painted wood.

We had this big blank wall (cabinets here wouldn't have left room for the table where we eat almost all our meals) so we painted a piece of masonite with chalkboard paint and bolted it to the wall. The corkboard covers the circuit box, which would have cost $1500 to move.

We love steel so we had the pass-through top made of 1/2-inch sheet steel.


Cabinets: IKEA, Tidaholm door style (European white oak; solid oak frame with veneer center), except for custom-built pantry and one shallow cabinet beneath the bookcase, stained ebony; bookcase and cart also custom built of steel angle-iron uprights and IKEA butcher block shelves
Countertops: Beleza soapstone from Dorado Soapstone in Austin
Backsplash: Sonoma Tilemakers (from our favorite tile store, Architerra); subways are Star line, 3x6, color Trellis Green; glass tiles are Tantrum 1x2, color Tazo (chosen because it matched the green inclusions in the soapstone)
Grout: Light gray (maybe Oyster Gray?)
Hardware: Restoration Hardware Aubrey pulls in brushed nickel, 4-inch on doors, 6-inch on drawers
Pendants in front of windows: Meridian from Sundance Catalog
Pendant over kitchen table: IKEA (a placeholder to get the final inspection done; I was looking for a cone-shaped pendant to echo the Meridian pendants but with a solid or frosted shade; I couldn't find one in time and now we'll probably have this forever)
Undercabinet lights: Microfluorescent T4 light strips from Pegasus Associates Lighting (online)
Sink: Ticor S112 from Galaxy Tool Supply
Faucet: Kohler Essex with side spray in brushed nickel
Range: Kenmore Elite
Dishwasher: Kenmore Elite
Refrigerator: Kenmore (existing)
Floors: Existing long leaf pine (refinished)


clipped on: 03.22.2010 at 09:19 pm    last updated on: 03.22.2010 at 09:20 pm

RE: Tray Divider Over Fridge (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: buehl on 03.19.2010 at 02:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

GW Tip...Instead of putting the trays & tray dividers on the floor of the cabinet and a shelf above, put the trays & tray dividers on the shelf and the have the smaller/shorter place for platters, etc. beneath sitting on the cabinet floor.

In most cases (especially if your trays are over ovens), you can reach the bottom of things on a shelf a few inches up. For trays, cooking racks, cookie sheets, etc., you only need to get to the lower corner and pull, you don't need to reach the top of the item to remove.

This setup allows you to be able to access not only the items in the tray dividers w/o a stool, but also the platters, etc.

Like this:


clipped on: 03.21.2010 at 01:47 am    last updated on: 03.21.2010 at 01:47 am

RE: Tray Divider Over Fridge (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: skoo on 03.19.2010 at 11:34 am in Kitchens Forum

This is what we did over the fridge:

We measured the height so that it would fit a half sheet pan on its side, which is the longest that we wanted to store in the dividers. The horizontal area on top is for full sheet pans and other large platters, etc.


clipped on: 03.21.2010 at 01:44 am    last updated on: 03.21.2010 at 01:44 am

Air gaps - does your area require one?

posted by: needsometips08 on 03.18.2010 at 01:48 am in Kitchens Forum

I am so sad and mad right now that our stinkin state follows the UPC (United Plumbing Code) instead of the IRC that many (most?) other states follow. My hours of research are basically stating that in the UPC you have to have an air gap period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Very clear language. No exceptions.

I am calling our inspector tomorrow to confirm, but I am 99% sure there are no exceptions allowed. From what I understand CA is another state that is absolute in the air gap requirement.

So it looks like a hole will have to be cut in my granite to allow for this monstrocity.

How many other people here have to deal with this? How did you come to grips with it?

Do you think it's going to ruin the entire look of the sink area? I HATED that thing in the old kitchen. Plus it collected muck and gunk.

I am half tempted to change it out after the final inspection happens by installing under the counter like most of the rest of the USA and putting a soap dispenser in it's place except then I'd have to either get a new faucet or have 2 soap dispensers since my faucet handle and sprayer are all part of the faucet and I had them drill 2 holes already at that sink.

I am so glad to be going the inspection route, but this is really peaving me. If it's good enough for most of the rest of the US, it should be good for WA state too!

Forgive my rant, I am just so bummed.


clipped on: 03.19.2010 at 03:31 am    last updated on: 03.19.2010 at 03:32 am

Kitchen in progress - Adel Birch & Soapstone is in

posted by: gayleski on 03.12.2010 at 04:39 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi all - I've been mostly a lurker here for a few years now. Our soapstone was installed yesterday, and I couldn't help but post some pics. :)

It's Green Mountain Original. RMG Stone did the fabrication and install. My husband is very taken with the veining on the bar.

The same view with sinks installed, back splash up, and stone oiled.

Sink detail

Doors and drawers installed



Here is a link that might be useful: More soapstone pics


clipped on: 03.13.2010 at 03:05 pm    last updated on: 03.13.2010 at 03:06 pm

RE: Gel stain vs. Polyshades (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: celticmoon on 01.23.2010 at 04:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

Ditto. No comparison between the two. The Polyshades was sticky and dried tacky with a harsh gloss like this

The GF gel has a much nicer look, feel and finish.
And is way easier to work with. I would drive 100 miles to use GF gel over Polyshades.

Your kitchen situation sounds a lot like mine was.
1998 side wall

last wall
I have posted a way long 'how to' a bunch of times here. Search engine isn't pulling it up, so with apologies for the repetition here's more than you need to know:

It is a very doable project. You just need time, $50 in supplies, and patience. No skill.

My cabinets were frameless, good condition and good layout. But the finish had gone orange and ugly, with the oak graining too busy for me. Cabinet were 18 years old, very poorly finished oak veneered slab doors. Plain with no crevices. They didn't even take the doors off to finish them!!! No stain or finish was even put on the hinge side edges. Bad workmanship.

I looked into changing out cabinets, but that was way too much money, since my layout was OK. Painting didn't seem right because the doors were plain slabs. I considered new doors but that still meant a lot of money. For a few years I tried to figure a way to add molding toward a mission look, but the rounded door edges made that impossible. Then trolling in a kitchen emporium showroom this last year I noticed dark wood slab doors, kind of like mine, but darker. That was the answer.

First I tried Minwax Polyshades. Dicey product. Hard to brush on neatly, then gummy, then seemed to leave a sticky tacky residue. I did a thread on the Woodworking Forum "Evil Polyshades to the Rescue" which elicited a lot of conflicting "expert" opinions and arguments that one must strip to bare wood. (Thread may still be around as that Forum moves slowly.) Long ago when I was young and stupid I properly stripped acres of woodwork in an old Victorian. Never again! Jennifer-in-Clyde (in the same boat) and I stumbled around on that woodworking thread to get to this method.

-electric screwdriver or screw drill bits
-mineral spirits to clean the years of gunk off the cabinet
-miracle cloths (optional)
-fine sandpaper
-box-o-disposable gloves from Walgreens or the like
-old socks or rags for wiping on coats
-disposable small plastic bowls or plates, and plastic spoons or forks for stirring/dipping (optional)
-General Finishes water base Espresso stain (pretty thick, but not quite a gel) NOTE: This one may not even be a needed step if the Java gets it dark enough.
-General Finishes Java gel stain (poly based)
-General Finishes clear top coat (poly based)
-old sheets or plastic sheeting or newspaper

Rockler woodworking stores are a good place to find the General Finish products. Or some larger hardware stores. Quart of each was more than enough for my 60 doors and drawer fronts and goes for $12-14 at Rockler. There are smaller sizes if your project is small.

You will need a place to work and leave wet doors to dry overnight - I set up 2 spaces: garage for sanding/cleaning and basement for staining/sealing. Use newspaper or plastic to protect the surface and floor. Figure out how you will prop doors to dry. Plan blocks of 20-30-minutes for sanding/cleaning bundles of, say, 6 doors at a time. Then just 10-minute sessions to wipe on coats. The coats will need to dry for about 24 hours, so figure that each section of the kitchen will be doorless for 4 or 5 days. Divide the job up into manageable chunks.

Take off doors and drawer fronts. Try using screw drill bits on an electric drill if you don't have an electric screwdriver. Remove all the hardware. *Mark alike things so you know what goes back where.* Clean the doors thoroughly. Not with TSP but with something pretty strong and scrub well. There's years of grease there.
Sand LIGHTLY, just a scuffing really. Just enough to break the finish and give it some tooth, no more than a minute a door. A miracle cloth is good for getting most of the dust off. Then wipe well with mineral spirits to clean and get the last of the gunk off.

In order, we're gonna put on:
-General Finishes Espresso water based stain (1 coat) - optional
-General Finishes Java gel stain (couple coats)
-General Finishes Clear urethane gel topcoat in satin (couple coats)

But first put on work clothes, tie up your hair and pop your phone into a baggie nearby (you know it will ring). Glove up.
***First do a trial on the back of a door and check if Java coats alone suffice. If the Java alone is to your liking, just skip the Espresso and return it.

Open and stir up the Espresso stain, then spoon some into a plastic bowl. Close the tin so it doesn't get contaminated. Slide a sock over your hand, grab a gob of Espresso and smear it on. Wipe off the excess. Let it dry well - overnight is good. It will lighten as it dries, but then darken again with any other coat or sealer. A second coat might result in a deeper tone at the end - though it seemed like the second coat was just dissolving the first. YMMV.

Repeat with Java gel. This is thicker and poly based (*not water cleanup!*= messier). Color is a rich dark reddish brown. Wait for the second coat to judge if the color is deep enough for you. I wanted a very deep dark color, like melted dark chocolate. So I went pretty heavy on these layers. I did not sand between coats.
Repeat with clear gel topcoat. This will give you the strength you need in a kitchen.

Do the same process with the cabinet sides, face and toe kick area. Might need to divide that up also, and stagger the work: doors/cabinets/doors/etc.

NOTE: The cloth or socks used for the gels are very flammable! Collect and store them in a bucket of water as you go and then dispose of them all properly.

I suggest you put the doors back up after one clear coat, then you can check everything over and darken an area with more Java if needed, followed by a clear coat. When it all looks right, go over it all again with another clear gel coat. Or two. (See my follow up notes below). Install your hardware.
The feel of the finish should be wonderful, really smooth and satiny. Color deep and rich - way nicer than that faded, beat 80's oak color.

Definitely experiment first with the back of a door or drawer front to be sure it is the look you want. Yes, this takes a couple days to coat, dry, recoat, dry, etc but you may discover that the Java alone does the trick and this will save you a LOT of work. Front-end patience is worth it.

This is a pretty easy project to do. Hard to screw it up. The worst is the prep - relative to that, smearing on the coats is cake. I had over 60 pieces (big kitchen) AND island sides and book shelves, etc and I admit I lost steam partway through. Had to push myself through the last of it. But it was worth it. Folks think I got all new cabinets - it looks that good.

Now the finish will not be as durable as factory finish - go at it with a Brillo pad and you WILL abrade it. But it has held up pretty well. And after a year of pretty heavy use, I had just a few nicks, easily repaired.
(6/08 Add: I'm now (18 months later) seeing some wear near the pulls on the most used cabinets. Will add color with Java if it bugs me.)
(9/09 Add: Never did bother to touch up those couple spots. Bugging me a bit more, and I will get to it soon. It is the drinking glass cabinet and the snack cabinet, LOL. And the garbage pull-out. The rest still looks perfect. Lesson: Use an extra coat or 2 of gel on the way frequently used cabinets.)
(12/09 Add: I did finally touch up the spots that were worn. Used just Java to get the color right, then a bunch of top coats. Looks perfect again.)

I added smashing hardware, raised my pass-through, resurfaced the Corian (also simple but messy and tedious) and replaced the DW and sink. It looks gorgeous to me and I really enjoy the space - how it sits all quiet, clean and serene, then gets all crazy with the food and folks du jour. I couldn't be happier, especially that I didn't have to work another year just to pay for the update!!

Link to cabinets in progress:

Link to almost finished cabinet pix:

Good luck with your project!! And let me know if you try it and how it turns out.

Here is a link that might be useful: more before during and after pix


clipped on: 03.08.2010 at 02:27 am    last updated on: 03.08.2010 at 02:28 am

PoorOwner's kitchen remodel (PART 3) 2010

posted by: poorowner on 01.18.2010 at 03:19 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hopefully this is the last installment. I can see the finishing line from here.

I am currently working on the dining area of my kitchen extension. Finally, new year's resolution kicked in, me and my wife installed new light fixtures. I have never seen wall sconces above a window before, maybe because it is not too easy to do, as I found out there is solid wood header right above it, but we pulled it off with some very careful planning. The blinds will be replaced to match the kitchen one will tone down the light washing effect.

It is going to be a 33" high counter area for baking prep and serving food.

I added an eyeball recess because I had a cut-out for an old ceiling fan, but otherwise staying away from recessed lights. I know the ceiling texture is out of style, when we run out of things to spend money on then we will find a company to remove it. But for now.. lights and music!

Here is a link that might be useful:

link to my kitchen remodel, Part 2


clipped on: 03.07.2010 at 06:56 pm    last updated on: 03.07.2010 at 06:56 pm

PoorOwner's kitchen remodel

posted by: poorowner on 11.16.2008 at 03:42 pm in Kitchens Forum

After lots of research..

My remodel begins: we are DIY using IKEA cabinets.

This thread is to keep you updated on progress and hopefully keep us motivated.

Old appliances and cabinets are gone.

Now we are TRYING to remove the paper, and there are lots of it everywhere.

In the kitchen area we have these bullet proof vinyl coated wallpaper, the stripper liquid will not penetrate, but a steamer helped. It seems to be a 2 stage process to remove the color layer, steaming, manually peeling, then let the stripper work on the backing.

DW helping with the wall paper removal in the dining area. Although I was working on the floor prep, we ended up working on the walls together.

Preparing floor for porcelain tiles: the luan removal was not fun. In my area our subfloor is over 1" thick plywood, and the people before us used extra long 2" staples to secure this layer. I choose to remove the staples instead of pounding them in. After the first 100 or so I have gotten very good.

Looking a little better.

Ikea did call us and says our order is ready to pickup. I think installing the cabinets will be more fun than this work. There are a few more steps to get the floor to tile-ready spec.


clipped on: 03.07.2010 at 06:51 pm    last updated on: 03.07.2010 at 06:51 pm

Ikea Kitchens

posted by: lisaslists2000 on 02.02.2010 at 09:44 pm in Kitchens Forum

Who is working on or has finished an Ikea kitchen? I think there are more of us out there than we know! I also think there are lots of finished Ikea kitchens that are not in the FKB.

Please post pics of your finished Ikea kitchens in the FKB and here and progress pics here! Would love to see all that has been done.

I will post pics again soon, but with no countertops and figuring out where all is to go, it looks so messy. I still have to have part of floor resanded, then me apply polyurethane again, paint (not doing tile right now) backsplash, finish painting where soffits and repairs ( moving light fixtures, etc.) were done. I've got a working cooktop and hood and most of my doors and drawers done.

Share, guys!



clipped on: 03.04.2010 at 03:39 am    last updated on: 03.04.2010 at 03:39 am

quick ikea question for ikea experts

posted by: remodelfla on 02.25.2010 at 07:50 pm in Kitchens Forum

Do the base cabs for IKEA only come in 12" and 24" depth? We're discovering that my end cab on the window run should be narrower to allow for an adequate walkway by the frig. Here's the layout again. I'm referring to the end 18" cab. I may decide to make that one a 24" narrow depth cab. Also,instead of a corner unit I"m getting a blind corner. That will allow me a 12" drawer unit next to the cooktop.
final layout
I am going to redo the layout to show exact sizes. I have to redo everything cause my hard drive crashed and I lost everything. The only picture I have is the one saved to photobucket and I can't tweak that.


clipped on: 02.26.2010 at 06:26 pm    last updated on: 02.26.2010 at 06:26 pm

Need Advice - Kitchen Hood/Makeup Air

posted by: malcience on 11.18.2009 at 08:09 am in Appliances Forum

My wife and I are building a new house in the Pittsburgh area and we are getting close to our pre-construction meeting and plan confirmation. Our builder has said that according to 2006 IRC any kitchen hood that will produce more than 3 Pa of negative pressure needs to have a make-up air system installed with it. For our home the pressure requirement converts to 400+ CFM hood and we will have a Bluestar RNB 36" range so we want > 400 CFM. Our appliance vendor has apparently never heard this before.

I dont know anything about makeup air, our builder said it could be installed in-line with the hood (Independant INBQ) but again our appliance folks said they have never heard of it.

Could someone enlighten me as to what exactly a make-up air system entails?

What viable work-arounds exist? (or are we violating our home warrenty if we try?).

I am also going to be looking for any manufacturer sites and calling Independant to see if they can straighten me out, any other sites that could help me figure out what we need to get done would also be appreciated.



clipped on: 02.26.2010 at 04:15 am    last updated on: 02.26.2010 at 04:32 am

Pictures of wall where frig is recessed

posted by: shelly_k on 02.05.2010 at 07:09 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi all,

Do any of you have pictures of the wall where your frig is recessed? Preferrably in construction phase so my GC can see how it's done with the header and such?



clipped on: 02.21.2010 at 02:30 am    last updated on: 02.21.2010 at 02:30 am

Recessed Refrig - Need Help

posted by: drjoann on 02.20.2010 at 02:37 pm in Kitchens Forum

For our new build, we're creating a niche for a nominal 36" FD full depth freestanding refrigerator. I'm looking at the Samsung RFG298AA because it is supposed to be quiet and has good reviews.

I really need help figuring out the dimensions for the niche. It will be between a walk-in pantry and a small base cabinet with uppers on the other side (had orignally been the wall ovens so ignore that on the picture). Here is a picture of how the home designer (not a KD) had drawn this:


At the bottom I have a link to a Google Docs folder that has the spec sheets for this refrigerator and the GE equivalent that is supposedly made by Samsung, as well. There is a huge discrepancy for the clearances between the Samsung Quick Start, the Samsung User's manual and the GE Spec. Here they are, in that order:

- [Page 2] Sides: 3 3/4"; Back: 2"; Top 2"

- [Page 8] Sides: 1"; Back: 2"; Top 2"

- [Page 1] Sides: 1/8"; Back: 1"; Top 1"

As you can see, Samsung is not consistent between their two documents and there is a huge difference with the side clearance for the GE which should pretty much be the same box.

I can alter the plan to make this and, I hope, most any future refrigerator which is nominally 36" wide fit the space. I just need to know how to do it. Does the door protrude past the edge of the pantry/cabinets wall? By how much - the depth of the handle or the depth of the refrigerator door? I tried reading the article in the Feb issue of BH&G Kitchen & Bath Ideas on making standard depth refrigerators look build in, but there isn't much help on figuring out the dimensions.

We're meeting with the house designer & builder next week to get the plans finalized, so any help y'all can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks - Jo Ann

P.S. I'm leery of letting this to the house designer because, at one point, her assistant drew it with the refrigerator switched with the wall cabinet because she said there was some "rule" about having 10" on the side of a refrigerator. I didn't know what that was all about so said to use 3'9" since that was the width of the fridge and some roundup for the 3.75" air clearance needed on each side.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to Folder with Fridge Info


clipped on: 02.20.2010 at 02:59 pm    last updated on: 02.20.2010 at 02:59 pm

98.627% Finished Kitchen - Transitional White Inset w/ glass tile

posted by: theanimala on 01.02.2010 at 03:00 pm in Kitchens Forum

After reading this site daily for 6 months now and getting tons of great advice it's time for us to post our finished kitchen. In keeping with the style of the house we needed to go more modern than traditional, but we didn't want something too contemporary. Also, we couldn't decide on painted or stained cabinets, so we decided to do both by painting the perimeter while having the island stained.

Although we moved no walls, it ended up being a bigger project then we expected as the old tile floor went through our foyer, powder room and laundry room. Also didn't have correct sub-flooring, and we wanted to move some of the appliances around, etc. The reason the it is only 98.627% completed, is we still have 1.373% left to do, such as glass shelves in glass front doors so in cabinet lighting can shine all the way through, etc.


Cabinets - Inset Shiloh Homestead painted MB Softwhite, Island Maple stained Espresso
Flooring - Tile Fashion Coffee 12 x 24
Countertops - Ceasarstone Raven, Ceasarstone Misty Carrera - Mitred Edge
Main Sink - Franke 33" SS Apron - FHX710-33S
Main Faucet - Generic Costco Brand
Prep Sink - Elkay - ELU1618
Prep Faucet - Danze Como Pulldown
Refrigerator - JennAir CD FD - JFC2089HES
Ovens - Electrolux - EW30EW65GS
Warming Drawer - Electrolux - EW30WD55GS
Microwave - Electrolux - EL27MO45GS
Cooktop - DCS 36" Drop-in - CTD-365
Hood - Bosch - DKE9365AUC
Beverage Center - GE Monogram - ZDBC240NBS
Dishwasher - Bosch
Backsplash - White Glass subway tile from
Backsplash - Stainless Steel 1x2 tiles
Pulls - TopKnobs - Princetonian
Paint - BM 1542 Himalayan Trek






Sink Area:







Island - Backside:

Pantry Area - Closed:


Pantry - Open:


Lazy Suzan - Corner Pullout:


A big thank you to everyone who gave such great advice over the past few months. If anyone has any questions on what we like /dislike please let us know.


clipped on: 02.20.2010 at 02:51 pm    last updated on: 02.20.2010 at 02:52 pm

put me out of my misery and just tell me what kind of cans to get

posted by: remodelfla on 02.15.2010 at 05:32 pm in Kitchens Forum

I've posted questions, researched, and read. Still can't figure out what kind of recessed lights to get. I'm figuring 4" and I basically know where to put them. But, what kind? I find it all so confusing. DH is ready to finish up with the electrician and I need to make a decision now and order them. Please... just tell me what to order so I can be done.


clipped on: 02.16.2010 at 10:21 pm    last updated on: 02.19.2010 at 06:14 pm

Vote! Wheat or clear alzak?

posted by: honeysucklevine on 02.19.2010 at 09:35 am in Kitchens Forum

Wheat or clear alzak?

Does wheat alzak affect colors in the room and is that bad or good?

(I plan on either copper or brass, wood, and possibly marble).


clipped on: 02.19.2010 at 06:12 pm    last updated on: 02.19.2010 at 06:12 pm

RE: Now that I have [X], I think I could have lived without it. (Follow-Up #68)

posted by: abbycat9990 on 10.16.2007 at 04:42 pm in Kitchens Forum

malhgold - Here are pics:

We moved kitchen to dining room. Moved door a little to the left, recessed fridge into space formerly occupied by 1970s double wall oven (it was harvest gold!), and squeezed in 2 x 24" wide pantries.

Replaced full height windows with these 47" x 47" fixed Pella windows. See the problematic 12" spice pullout on the right of the range. Oh yes, another thing I LOVE - space for cookbooks.


clipped on: 02.18.2010 at 03:06 pm    last updated on: 02.18.2010 at 03:06 pm

Scherrs vs Ikea vs Kraftmaid or other

posted by: chrisk327 on 01.13.2010 at 01:36 pm in Kitchens Forum

So, I'm switching houses, this time we're doing a whole house remodel. I'm excited and scared at the same time.

Either way, a new kitchen is coming, along with a lot of other house expenses. We want something that is budget friendly, doesn't have to be completly budget material.

I have Ikea currently, love the drawers, pantry and accessories. Not going to do the white painted doors again. Of the wood, we only "like" the Adel Medium brown, and are not in love iwth it the wood looks a little dead. May be an option but not first choice. Our old kitchen, which was done in ikea, I spent about $3500 on all the cabinets including a pantry wth pullouts.

How much do the other cabinet manufacturers cost? my inlaws paid about 10K for cherry kraftmaid cabinets for their kitchen, doesn't seem like a lot of cabinets, and low on options. The home depot guy did his kitchen with his discount at $12K and showed me the pictures of his small-medium kitchen. I was shocked at the cost.

I have more cabinets in my current kitchen and the new one should have a few more.

my question is
If I want a flat panel door, in cherry, with drawers and full extensions, what range should my budget be in?

I was origionally thinking I would be doing this for 8-10K essentially double to triple what ikea would run. Now it sounds like 15-20K.

I haven't gotten quotes yet, I'm still working on my plan. I'm just trying to see what I should be expecting. with the large discounts off of MSRP, and crazy upgrade costs, it seems very difficult to see if you're getting a fair deal.

I was considering Scherrs, are they any cheaper? I know they are high quality and custom. Quality I care about, custom not as much my kitchen can draw within the lines of a normal non-custom places.

What other frameless manufacturers are there?


clipped on: 02.18.2010 at 02:51 am    last updated on: 02.18.2010 at 02:52 am

Ikea Storage - One Reason I Chose Ikea

posted by: lisaslists2000 on 02.06.2010 at 09:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here are some pics of my new drawers/pantry. A frying pan and a lid are missing from cooking, and there are a couple of drawer fronts missing from the pantry. I love this new kitchen. Can't wait for countertops and sink! Trailrunner, notice if you read this thread that my cornbread and biscuit cast iron are in the baking drawer!

behind the door pantry

behind the door junk

behind the door cooking

behind the door baking


clipped on: 02.16.2010 at 10:25 pm    last updated on: 02.16.2010 at 10:25 pm

Update on problems with LG refrigerator

posted by: beache on 12.08.2006 at 09:51 am in Appliances Forum

To recap, my main control board and defrost controller failed again 10 months after they were replaced under warranty last December (when the fridge was 2 1/2 months old). I repeatedly called LG customer service and they kept saying a supervisor would call me back. This morning I called again and a supervisor finally got on the phone.
Before I even finished going over my story the person cut me off and said that I should have bought the extended warranty on the fridge. I was nice, but we went back and forth--me saying that LG should stand by it's products, do they expect them to fail? That we shouldn't have to pay for something that even LG's own techs admit is a continuing problem, blah blah blah. That they could at least make a good faith gesture. Bottom line is, they won't cover anything and if I choose to write to corporate headquarters about it, it would just go to her and she would deny me again.

I am so frustrated with their attitude. I'm guessing that the main board and the controller will fail again within a year (that will be the 3rd time) and I will then have to decide whether to put another $400 into a fridge that originally cost $1200. I did tell her that the saying goes that an unhappy customer will tell 10 friends about their experience, and I will tell everyone I can not to buy LG.


clipped on: 02.16.2010 at 10:23 pm    last updated on: 02.16.2010 at 10:23 pm

Anyone have experience with Blanco Silgranit kitchen sinks?

posted by: sherean on 01.18.2010 at 09:03 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi there - We're looking at getting the Blanco Silgranit (Blanco Diamond Super Single Bowl) drop in sink for our kitchen. We like the look of stainless but my DH hates the scratches. He's looking for the holy trinity of sinks: scratch-resistant, stain-resistant, and chip-resistant. Once he figured out, that no such sink existed, he researched and thinks this one comes close. Wondering if anyone here has it and what their experience has been? Especially curious if the white one has done a decent job of resisting stains.

p.s. - I'm not sure the best place to post this so I may cross-post in the plumbing forums. Thanks You All!


clipped on: 02.16.2010 at 10:22 pm    last updated on: 02.16.2010 at 10:23 pm

best advice from this forum is...

posted by: crazyone on 01.30.2010 at 02:57 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am just reading thru an old thread from 2 years ago that lists the best advice learned on this forum.. I have found a few good points I may not have known

however in the last 2 years are there new and improved things?

I have read good and bad to the plug mold which is raved about on that thread .. is it still a have to have option?

the tapmaster sounds great for a quick rinse but do you hold it to fill the gi-normous over size single sink that they all loved?


clipped on: 02.16.2010 at 10:22 pm    last updated on: 02.16.2010 at 10:22 pm

Where to put all the stuff by the sink..faucet, air switch etc.

posted by: eks6426 on 02.16.2010 at 08:16 am in Kitchens Forum

Well, after many months, I am actually going to be getting cabinets this week. Granite fabricator is scheduled to come do templating late this week. I need to make some decisions on where to put everything by the sinks.

Here's what I'm going to have. Ideas for how to arrange all this stuff and keep it looking as least cluttered as possible appreciated...

Main sink: Kohler Smart Divide sink with smaller bowl/larger bowl configuration.
Kohler Stainless Simplice faucet (the one that just requires 1 hole...handle is on the faucet itself)
Air switch for garbage disposal
Instant hot faucet
Soap dispenser

Prep sink--Kohler cast iron undermount 14X16 size: Smaller version of the same faucet, air switch & soap dispenser.

Is it better to put the instant hot, air switch & soap dispenser all on the same side or should I spread them out? Ideas greatly appreciated.



clipped on: 02.16.2010 at 10:16 pm    last updated on: 02.16.2010 at 10:21 pm

Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens! [Help keep on Page 1]

posted by: buehl on 01.24.2010 at 08:11 am in Kitchens Forum

Welcome! If you are new here - you may find the following information and links helpful.

The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) pages contain helpful information about how to navigate this site as well as the world of kitchen renovations.

The Kitchen Forum Acronyms will help you understand some of the acronyms used frequently in posts.

The Finished Kitchens Blog has pictures and information about many GW members' finished kitchens. Not only can you see them alphabetically, but there is also a category list if you're looking for specific things like a kitchen w/a Beverage Center or a kitchen w/a mix of dark and light cabinets.

The Appliances Forum is very useful when you have questions specific to appliances.

To start off the process...take the Sweeby Test. Then, move on to Beginning a Kitchen Plan.

Other topics such as planning for storage can be found by doing a search on the forum.


  • Before posting a question, search the forum. There's a very good chance someone has already asked the question.

  • When using the "search" function, be sure to use the search box on the bottom of the page, not the top!

  • In the Subject, the site changes the double quote used as the inches indicator (") to a single quote ('). We don't know why. To compensate, use two single quotes and it will appear as a double quote in the Subject. Luckily, the double quote works in the message box.

  • When composing a new thread, you have a couple of options:

    • Have replies emailed to you: check the box offerring this option. However, you must have "Allow other users to send you email via forms at our site." box checked in your profile for this to work (see the "Your Profile" link at the very top of the page)

    • Insert a link: When you "preview" your message, you will be provided with two boxes for a is for the link itself and the second is for the name or description of the link.

  • When using the "Clip this post" option (far upper right corner of each post, small print), remember that only the current post is clipped, not the entire thread. Also, you are allowed a maximum of 50 clippings. Once you reach this max, you will no longer be able to clip or email posts.

How are the home page and the Forum organized? (from the FAQs)

  • The Kitchens Forum home page lists 30 thread titles, starting with those that don't yet have a response. Then threads are listed in order of most recent response. That first page displays the last 2 hours or so of activity. (If there is no response to a thread in an hour or two, the unanswered thread starts to drop
  • Below the thread list are page numbers 1-67 for the total 67 pages of threads available -- capturing maybe 2 months or so of threads, less when the Forum is busy.
  • Below that (and at the top of the thread list) is a space for you to switch to the Conversations or Gallery "sides" - these are set up similarly but not nearly as active.
  • Next down is a Search box -- very important! This is also the Search box you should use (not the one at the top of the page.)
    • Always refresh the page b/f assuming a thread has disappeared right after starting it.
    • As to searching...a thread will not be found during a GW search for up to 24 hours after it has been started. This may seem too technical, but...searches are done against what are known as "indexes". Indexes use key fields/words to find things. iVillage only indexes threads once a day. So, that means that until your thread is "indexed", it won't show up in a search. If you start a thread just before the index is taken, you will be able to retrieve your thread by searching soon after creation. If, however, you start your thread right after the daily index, then you'll have to wait almost 24 hours for the next index.

  • Next is a place for you to start a new thread. And finally there are some instructions and links at the bottom.

Kitchen Forum "Sides"

Discussions: This is the "side" you are on. It is for on-topic discussions concerning kitchens...renovations, use of, etc.
Conversations: This is the "side" where you can post off topic threads such as regional get-togethers and non-kitchen subjects.
Gallery: This is the "side" where members often post pictures...especially if you're posting a lot or a finished kitchen.


clipped on: 02.16.2010 at 10:17 pm    last updated on: 02.16.2010 at 10:20 pm