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RE: vessel sink - where's the overflow? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: igloochic on 04.15.2009 at 01:12 am in Bathrooms Forum

I am currently selling five different vessel sink drains because they didn't work with my various vessel sinks (two copper and one onyx). They cost a fortune and I'll probably get five bucks each at the contractors garage sale.

So, lesson learned, make sure you buy the right pieces for your sink! The onyx one was the worst frankly.

But it's to the height, there are a couple issues to deal with. First, the rim of the vessel needs to be at or below 36" to be "standard" (typically it's 32" on a vanity or less). Then there's the faucet from the rim of the bowl height, which should be between 5 and 6" up from the rim (put your hand under a sink want room to move your hands around without hitting it bascially). Then the distance from the faucet to the should drain just behind the edge of the drain hole, which as noted above, will cut way down on splashing that you get with a direct center or forward placement.


clipped on: 08.19.2013 at 09:56 pm    last updated on: 08.19.2013 at 09:56 pm

RE: vessel sink - where's the overflow? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: flyinghigh on 04.13.2009 at 02:30 pm in Bathrooms Forum

There are indeed two styles of drains for 1.5" standard bath sinks. One style for sinks with overflows (what you find with most faucets) and one for sinks with no overflow (sometimes referred to as "vessel style").

Within the category of drains for vessel sinks (i.e. sinks with no overflow), there are "grid drains" (drain is always open), umbrella style (touch once to close, touch again to open), and a few others I have seen in the past including a "butterfly style" where the drain rotated open and closed.

We have several vessel style sinks installed and have always tried to get about 6" from the lip height of the vessel to the spout height. This seems to work fairly well. The spout extension can be anywhere from about 2" in from the lip to the drain - however, I don't like the spout directly above the drain, but rather slightly behind (less splashing).

Hope this helps.


clipped on: 08.19.2013 at 09:55 pm    last updated on: 08.19.2013 at 09:55 pm

RE: Porcelain tiles that look like wood (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: swtsae on 06.20.2012 at 11:48 pm in Flooring Forum

Hi Jane sorry i havent checked back here in a while. The tile cost $3.79 a sq ft, I got a "family discount" pn install so we paid $2 sq/ft. I estimate the thinset and grout was about $0.25 sq/ft. So all in all about $6.25 ish sq/ft.

I will say this we ended up getting a "hook-up" on the grout. We ordered Laticrete Perma-color and they screwed up our order and ended up upgrading us and didnt charge us. So we got Laticrete Spectra-lock. Which i'm told is 4x more.


clipped on: 06.03.2013 at 08:35 am    last updated on: 06.03.2013 at 08:35 am

RE: Porcelain tiles that look like wood (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: swtsae on 05.18.2012 at 01:46 am in Flooring Forum

The tile is made by Exotica the color is Walnut. We got it at Floor and Decor.


clipped on: 06.03.2013 at 08:34 am    last updated on: 06.03.2013 at 08:34 am

RE: Porcelain tiles that look like wood (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: swtsae on 05.17.2012 at 02:22 pm in Flooring Forum

We just finished the install of our porcelain plank wood tiles. We love em, and think they turned out great.



clipped on: 06.03.2013 at 08:33 am    last updated on: 06.03.2013 at 08:33 am

RE: Show us your 'under $20K' kitchens! (Follow-Up #106)

posted by: janie-k on 03.18.2009 at 02:46 pm in Kitchens Forum

I decided to add our almost finished kitchen to this thread, since it will likely remain in this almost finished state for a while more.

Before Kitchen

Here are the details:
Cabinets- 5000
Tile- 600
Tile Install- 1500
Elecrical- 2500
Sheetrock- 1200
RH Lights- 300
Pendant Lights- 100
Hardware- 500
Appliances- 5500
Cabiet Install- 300
Paint & Misc- 300
Sink- 250
Faucet- 100
Countertop Supplies- 300

Total: $18,450


clipped on: 05.25.2013 at 03:30 pm    last updated on: 05.25.2013 at 03:31 pm

RE: Show us your 'under $20K' kitchens! (Follow-Up #113)

posted by: janie-k on 04.02.2009 at 05:10 am in Kitchens Forum

buddyrose - I'm not sure if you mean the semi-flush ceiling lights? If so, those are from Restoration Hardware and I got them on clearance for $100 each.

The other pendants (hanging over the breakfast bar and in front of the window over the kitchen sink) are from Lowes for $19 each. The bases were a perfect match to my RH lights and I swapped out the shades with some $3 fluted glass shades to match the optic glass shades on the ceiling fixtures. I searched long and hard for pendants to match and I couldn't find any I liked for less than $200/each. That wasn't going to work because we needed so many. I was in Lowes one day and was shocked to see these and for $20!


clipped on: 05.25.2013 at 03:29 pm    last updated on: 05.25.2013 at 03:29 pm

Some of the best advice from the braintrust on this forum

posted by: gsmama on 02.05.2011 at 11:25 am in Kitchens Forum

I was googling gardenweb and advice last night and came across a great thread that is no longer open but that had been bumped up a few times since it was started by justadncr in 2007 by asking everyone to share the best advice they'd picked up on this forum.

There are a bunch of gems I hadn't run across and wouldn't have even thought to ask or google ( don't know what you don't know). Plumgold? Never MT? All news to me from reading the thread. I consolidated the info so that I could print it (it would have been a breathtaking 41 pages had I tried to print it straight...) and thought I'd share for other newbies and to maybe get any other additions...

The biggest tip I learned and did as a result was that lumberyards sometimes carry mainstream cabinet lines for less. The place I ordered for carries Dynasty Omega, Shiloh and Meridian and the bulk of their business goes to contractors which helped with the pricing in my case vs. going with a custom cabinet maker--I got a variety of quotes.

With thanks to the OP and everyone who shared, here is their wisdom (please pardon the bullets are reading as diamonds with question marks. Oh well.):

Best advice I got from this forum:

� lay the kitchen out on the ground outside with all the measurements and walk around it to see if it felt right. I took my measurements and scraps of wood and laid them out in the various plans I had come up with.
� check out the sound of the fan in the new ovens. I would have been pretty steamed to spend a bunch on a new range and have that sound come blaring out each time I used the oven.
� putting Blumotion on the cabinet doors. This is my favorite feature in our kitchen and the cost was cheap to add these on after the cab install.
� "zones" on this forum, and designed my kitchen around them, with a tremendous amount of help from my forum friends. In my old kitchen, the dishwasher opened across from the island (right into the backs of my legs). Now, the cleanup zone is on the peninsula, the prep area is between the fridge and sink, etc. It's really wonderful.
� No air gap -- most modern dishwashers don't need them, so you don't have to have that extra unattractive "thing" on your countertop. Easy way around that if you need to pass code inspection is to drill the hole for air gap... pop it on for inspection and when they've gone take off the air gap and pop on your soap dispenser. Then put the loop in the hose at the back of your dishwasher...
� Advantium
� Miele dishwasher
� Test tube rack for spice storage
� Lay it out with tape to double check
� advice for setting up a temp kitchen
� Measure from 3 points wall to wall. Had I known this when we remodeled the entire house in 1990, I would now have the room to put in a pro-style range. As it is, I am exactly....1/4" short. Talk about frustrating! Our cabs are in great shape and I love them, but I'm stuck with the 29-7/8" width on the range.
� I really like this that I stole from Dmlove--- I love not having all those cords on my desk/countertop! So best advice from this forum... details make the difference! for now my phone sits over the hole
� pull down (rather than pull out or side spray) faucet
� Bluestar, after asking about the best 30 inch slide-in range
� batch-feed garbage disposals
� adding outlets
� Galaxy Tool Supply for our sink
� NeverMT
� Plugmold
� Wide / shallow cabinet for William Sonoma ultra-thin step stool.
� Airswitch on disposal. Never minded the wall switch, but now that I have a nice backsplash and an island
� Floodstop on icemaker and washing machine.
� I put power into the back of 4 drawers, so each family member has a place to charge the cell phone (or camcorder or whatever) out of sight.
� I also have a false panel behind a niche so that the power / wallwarts / phone wire / wireless access point is hidden. Only the phone sits out exposed. Similar to the idea above, but using depth.
� Don't pack your booze prior to remodeling (this is VERY important! VERY IMPORTANT!)
� Lacanche
� caulk on change of planes verses grout...look at the underside of your cabinets
� plugmold for under the ends of my island so I didn't have to cut outlets into my beautiful cabinets
� integrated drainboard cut into the countertop
� raising the countertop for my wall oven - which gave me a bonus "standing desk" for my laptop
� never thought I could get talked out of gas. So, that is the best advice so far
� I'm a single sink convert, based solely upon the reviews on this website.
� Dh and I made a "never mt" out of tubing bought for $0.46 at Lowes. It's really not very exciting, though. It's clear tubing (like the kind you see on aquariums) attached to the bottom of the soap dispenser thing, and then extends down through the lid and into the bottom of the bottle of soap. (We just drilled a hole in the top of the bottle and shoved the tubing down.) So low tech! The tubing is something like $.23/ foot and we bought 2 feet. Super easy.
� Landing space between appliances
� Aisle clearances
� Wait until its right - the right plan, the right time, the right appliances.
� instant hot water heater
� Getting a 36" range
� baking center
� online resources for sinks and faucets
� the importance of putting functionality first in all design decisions
� how to test granite for durability
� remote blower for hood fan
� single deep fireclay sink
� lots of great online resources for sinks, faucets, etc
� Never NEVER NEVER!!!! Leave your construction site to go on vacation ::scary music:: I MEAN NEVERRRRR!!!!!
� the best (and most costly) is don't settle. You have to live with this kitchen for quite some time. Don't settle! (Even if that means you scrapped the cabinets today, called of the GC for 8 weeks while you order new ones, and you can't live in your home so you have to find somewhere else to live for three months). And maybe Santa won't know where you live!!!
� Pegasus under-cabinet lighting here. Slim, good-looking, very energy-efficient, and reasonably priced.
� I was convinced of the superiority of the Miele cutlery rack
� do not rush..get a good plan in place. Pick what you love ..NOT what the designer loves
� Brizo Floriano/pulldowns in general
� xenon lighting
� Venting
� Tapmaster
� take pictures of everything while your walls are open. It is very helpful to have that photographic record of where electric, pipes, studs etc. actually are. Also, plan for where you want to install pot/wall racks, shelf brackets, etc.--and add extra framing in the walls before they get closed up.
� Get your floor plan right!
� The Franke Orca sink ... to die for.
� Inexpensive but quality Ticor sinks for laundry and prep.
� Plugmold giving me a crisp, clean and outlet-free backsplash.
� The personal, real life stories shared here gave me the confidence to push back at the stoneyard and insist on marble for my island. It pairs beautifully with the soapstone perimeter.
� Bertazzoni range
� White America Quartzite to go with SS
� LED undercabinet lights
� internet and ebay vendor recommendations
� Hancock & Moore leather furniture (from GW furniture forum)
� Microfiber cloths for cleaning SS and granite.
� we had scaled drawings, pictures, and sketches taped to walls and cabinets all over the kitchen. A sketch of the island layout, a drawing with dimensions for light fixtures and switches, a sketch showing the spacing of shelves, a picture of how we wanted plugmold installed - you name it, we had it on a piece of paper and taped on a wall. When we would discuss anything with the electrician, plumber, etc., usually we would show them a drawing or sketch so they would know exactly what we were looking for. Then we would post it on the wall in the kitchen. It may have been slightly annoying to those working there, but it was amazing how much it helped. A number of times after someone screwed something up I would just point to a drawing and they would immediately have to take the blame and offer to fix it. There was never any chance to claim that we never told them or that we had said something else. It was right there on the wall the whole time.
� undercounter light switch for undercounter lights
� tilt-out shoe storage cabinet
� Get hardwoods instead of laminate. Once I investigated I couldn't believe at how little difference in cost between the two (good decent laminate vs. hardwood)
� This is AWESOME! I now have a list of things I had never even heard of to check on...and I thought I was on top of things!
� posters here are willing to share their good and bad experiences so that newbies like me can have a smoother reno.
� Something that I'm slowly realizing as I continue to read the posts here is that, despite the best of planning, something (or things) likely will not go as planned.
� Buy appliances available locally (so service is available), from retailers who will actually stand behind the sale instead of shifting all blame and responsibility to the manufacturer - even when they shipped a defective product. Just finished reading a long thread about someone that bought from an internet retailer, and it was shocking to see the attitude of the retailer. Forget the pre sale promises and assurances from some of these disreputable internet companies who won't be there if you have a problem and just get them locally. No small percentage of savings is worth it if you end up with a defective product shipped and the retailer says it isn't his problem. If you must buy via internet, make sure you get in writing that the product will be shipped defect-free and if there's anything wrong with the unit at all - IMMEDIATELY contest the charge with your credit card company. Don't rely on promises that a minor (or major) problem will be promptly repaired by a service company.
� learning all the lingo was great. When the contractor asked if I wanted plugmold I didn't go "huh?" I think by being knowledgeable before talking to the contractor it helps a lot.
� Knobs vs. Pulls. There have been several discussions of knobs vs. pulls. Some comments:
� Knobs on base cabinets can catch on clothing (and rip sometimes).
� Cabinets/drawers w/pulls can usually be opened w/one finger...even the pinky finger.
� Susan Jablon glass tile. Everyone who comes in my house walks up to my backsplash and has to touch it. I had just about given up the idea of a glass tile backsplash before finding out about her site on this forum. The price of her tile, even with shipping, was about half of what I could have bought it for locally and it is gorgeous!
� No sockets/switches in backsplash (under cabinet plug strip)
� Toe kick on trash pop out BUT... ADD a second spring to add power to the pop (thank you for whoever mentioned this ingenious bit of info)
� Double layered cutlery drawer (secret drawer within a drawer)
� What to look for when choosing undercabinet lighting eg... reflection, spread of light, color of light, heat...
� Benefits of a large farmhouse sink
� Miele dishwasher � superb
� Thermador cooktop and all the controversy about the popup draft and how I could get away with not having one. THANK YOU!
� Miele warming drawer FANTASTIC and thank you for making me realize that it doesn't have to be on the floor under the oven!!!
� PLAN YOUR STORAGE SPACE. measure boxes, measure food processer, mixer, stack of plates etc. etc. then make a note of contents in the drawers or cupboards on your plans or diagrams or in your notes.
� Plug strip under center island.
� ARE NOT ALONE- PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT YOUR CD FRIDGE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU and it's OK to really take your time with your decisions
� Orca single sink
� Pot rack in upper cabinet (I think this idea was from loves2cookfor6??)
� Electrical outlet inside a drawer for a charging station
� filling in the gap between the fridge and the cupboard above it with some leftover filler and a piano hinge. Cambro...where did you see this idea? Just yesterday we discovered that we might have a significant gap b/w the top of the refrigerator & the bottom of the cabinet above. Our contractor is just going to use filler to hide the gap, but if we put it on hinges it would actually become usable space!
� knife drawer (I hated that block)
� gel stain
� Getting rid of my ugly phone jack and getting a phone that doesn't need one!
� How to get rid of the drip inside my oven door - with a hanger and a sock going up through the holes at the bottom of the door. Worked like a charm!
� Get a spine when talking to GC about his version vs. my version of cleaning up the jobsite each day (aka our home).
� Use masking tape and a measuring tape and make a mock up of where your new cabinets will go. This is a biggie!
� Dimmer switches! I put them on ALL of the new lighting, including the patio lights adjacent, and have not regretted it once.
� how great Silgranit sinks are to live with. Never even heard of one before GW.
� Buying Sources
o Ticor sinks: Ticor Sinks at Galaxy Tool Supply:
o Tapmaster�:
o Never-MT: Never-MT:
o Pop up Outlets: Popup Mocketts:
o Plugmold�/Power Strips:
o Angle Powerstrip:
� Our Vac Pan. Ours is hooked up to a wet/dry vac in the basement because we do not have central vac. The idea came from this forum and our electrician and contractor figured out how to make it happen.
� DIY on gel stain. Thanks Celticmoon and Projectsneverend.
� Soapstone, getting it, finding the right fabricator right here, and caring for it
� where to find a deal on saddle stools
� Kohler Vinnata
� Not to put my cooktop on my island.
� best advice I got was around my budget and how to make the hard decisions on what should stay in and what should go (that was from Beuhl).
� What is not that important to me and doesn't add functionality? [Candidate for elimination altogether]
� What can I do at a later date? [Candidate for deferring until a later date]
� What can't be done at a later date and I can't live without? [Candidate for keeping and doing now]
� This forum helped me see which terms are worth using, and which can be saved for later. This forum helped me get clearer communication going. Resistance could be expressed when I raised ideas; it all helped to refine the concept.
� This forum helped me justify personal innovations. This forum confirmed ideas.
� Tweaking and innovating. I tweaked everything in my kitchen along the way.
� I don't know if I would have a remodeled kitchen if it weren't for this forum. I would have still been looking at the dreadful old one wishing it was nice and not knowing how to get it nice. Even the ideas & photos of things I didn't want for me helped to define what I did want.
� I have to give credit to my carpenter, too. There was a time when his eyes rolled when I said, "but the people on the kitchen forum say......." But I had photos and conversations printed off to show him what I meant.
� Lisalists organized drawers where the dividers go from front to back or side to side so you don't have to nest objects-and you can fit so much stuff in. Easy, easy access. No nesting. Yay
� Layout, efficiency. This has to be the most important thing I've been learning here. What tasks do you perform, what zones will you organize them in, what items do you need close at hand in each zone, how does traffic between and through zones flow. etc.
� Styles, materials, looks. People here have great ''eyes'' for style and looks. My eyes have been opened to these looks, and I've learned the vocabulary to describe them.
� Specific ideas/features I learned about here that seem like they'll be useful: prep sinks, base cabinet drawers, counter top materials other than granite, true convection ovens, unfitted kitchens, under-counter refrigeration.
� Many things, one of which is using a 13-15" depth cabinet for inset cabinets, as 12 is not sufficient.
� Carefully placing all the appliances and storage thinking about what you use with what. For example, I moved the microwave to be next to the refrigerator because we use it mostly for reheating leftovers. I have fridge, prep sink, prep area, range, more prep area on one side and on the other I have prep area/ landing zone (across from fridge), main sink, prep area / dishwasher (across from range, but offset so both people can work) in the island.


clipped on: 05.16.2013 at 12:13 am    last updated on: 05.16.2013 at 12:13 am

RE: Shiloh cabinet pics anyone? (Follow-Up #34)

posted by: grlwprls on 01.12.2013 at 09:43 pm in Kitchens Forum


These are my Shiloh cherry in Vintage Sundance. I really love them paired with the walnut countertop. The rest of our cabinets are site painted Barker Cabinets since we needed to economize on $$ but not on quality.

We installed a mirror in the back of the glass door cabinet (on the left) to reflect the light from our French doors - cheaper than in cabinet lighting! They have a flush toekick since this isn't a work zone. It's basically dish storage and the pantry. I think I am also the only person who *installed* a soffit! But I needed to tie in the existing structural beams so this will make sense in the Big Reveal.


clipped on: 03.07.2013 at 07:54 am    last updated on: 03.07.2013 at 07:54 am

RE: Shiloh cabinet pics anyone? (Follow-Up #31)

posted by: shiloh2012 on 01.12.2013 at 03:04 am in Kitchens Forum

here is the awesome sink base, its the homestead door in the vintage collection in mandarin.


clipped on: 03.07.2013 at 07:52 am    last updated on: 03.07.2013 at 07:53 am

RE: Shiloh cabinet pics anyone? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: pps7 on 03.10.2012 at 08:45 pm in Kitchens Forum

We have Shiloh in our entire house: if you do a search, you may find lots of pictures that I have posted.

kitchen: inset, polar white. the inset came with upgraded hardware: full extention and soft close. Love it!

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

dining room. acorn maple with brown glaze. Wyatt door.
Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

master bath. espresso maple. Wyatt door/ drawers.

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

For the basement bar, we used their cheaper sequota line since it won't get much use, we got the praline maple which is very pretty. The quality is not as good, but good enough for the basement.

We got thermafoil in the laundry. It's actually very nice- I was surprised by how much I liked it.


clipped on: 03.07.2013 at 07:48 am    last updated on: 03.07.2013 at 07:49 am

RE: Frameless vs frames (Follow-Up #21)

posted by: jakuvall on 05.29.2012 at 09:25 am in Kitchens Forum

Over the years I've sold more frameless than framed primarily better middle of the road an up, remodeled more framed.
I've never had a call for a pulled out hinge in frameless.
Most I've sold use plastic inserts into the sides that the screws go into, bombproof. I've had a number of split stiles on framed from hinge screws being driven in without predrilling. It's a wash.

My own Brookhaven kitchen is 8 yrs old and haven't had to adjust doors (which is easier in frameless than framed). Remodeled a 25 yr old BH kitchen where the doors, hinges everything was perfect. Edge tape varies by brand but again I have never had a service call for it.

To me durability is a wash at a given price point.

Yes, frameless can be trickier to install. You can't rack them OUT of square. So if the corner of the walls are off that must be designed for with extended sides on exposed ends and the layout must be done properly or you run into trouble. But the same is true for framed insets, if you rack them you will have trouble with the doors- one reason better insets have full sub tops.

Aesthetically- frameless have a narrower space between the doors (reveal) than framed. I know of only two exceptions to that.

Advantage of framed is in the uppers- the recess at the bottom is enough to hide many types of lights. On frameless you need molding or to order recess bottoms. So aesthetically this can be a factor if you don't want molding. Recess bottoms in many brands are not that well done and are expensive. Typically the cost of the molding and/or recess bottoms can equal the difference in cost between a cheap flourescent uc light and a good led or xenon. Downside to walls is in middle of the road brands there is a small lip at the bottom of the cabinet where the floor meets the rail- a minor inconvenience. Better brands are flush. I don't think the recess at the side is an issue unless you make a desing mistake and use a tiny cabinet for cookie sheets.
The other advantage to framed cabinets is the ability to make larger continuous cabinets. This does not have to be done on site- many brands will combine cabinets. I do this almost always on inset cabinets where you start to gain width by doing it. Yes you give up some adjustability in shelving.

A disadvantage for short folks is that the bottom of the cabnet is 3/4" higher- not much but my wife is 5'-it matters. Frameless gains you 1.5" in height adjustment of the shelves- matters more on shorter cabinets (and with shorter people :)

Frameless advantage is in the drawers- you gain 1 1/2" width per drawer compared to almost every framed cabinet on the market. In my own kitchen that adds up to a 21" drawer. You gain even more in height clearance which makes it possible to design in more functional pot and pan drawers. In middle of the road cabs, without a sub top, you also avoid the issue of a ladle handle getting stuck behind the rail. In my own kitchen I have a 3 qt sauteuse nested in a 12 1/2" chefs pan in a top drawer. Can't do that in framed without resizing the drawers and adding a subtop.
Many trash po's require a 3" wider cabinet in framed but that has improved over that last few years. You can use a Hafele Suzi-Q in a corner susan (can also work in inset) which solves a lot of problems. A downside is that the majority of accessories are either sized for framed or metric which also seem to fit framed better. That too has begun to improve recently as more accessories are being offered to specifically fit frameless.

Mixing full overlay framed and frameless is brand specific. As noted the reveal can be different between the two which will make them look off. BH cabs notche the stile and use the same hinge, QCCI will use narrower rails; both solutions allow for the reveals to match. A custom builder could also do it. There has been some improvement in framed hinges over the last few years and reveals are getting smaller so that may become a non issue soon.
I've done two transitional displays with frameless lowers and inset uppers. I love the look but have not yet sold any.

As heri cles said-"different conclusions will be drawn by different people."


clipped on: 03.07.2013 at 07:45 am    last updated on: 03.07.2013 at 07:45 am

RE: Frameless vs frames (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: mpagmom on 05.27.2012 at 10:42 pm in Kitchens Forum

So far only two of my wall cabinets are installed and I don't have great pictures. Here are a couple though to give you an idea (and sorry they are huge).



Here is another kitchen from my inspiration pictures that has inset-upper/full-overlay-lower cabinets. I can't remember where I got this picture so I apologize if I'm posting someone else's kitchen!

I honestly don't see the problem your contractor is talking about, jamies.


clipped on: 03.07.2013 at 07:39 am    last updated on: 03.07.2013 at 07:39 am

RE: Frameless vs frames (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: mpagmom on 05.27.2012 at 11:10 am in Kitchens Forum

I did frameless full overlay on the bottom and framed inset on the top. I love the look of inset, but I really needed to save money and maximize storage space. Going frameless saved me 10% and gave me more space. The inset cost me an extra 10%, but I came out ahead because I have a lot more bottom cabinets than upper cabinets.

My door sizes on the bottom and upper cabinets are totally different, so there is no problem with them looking "off." I have mostly drawers on the bottom anyway.


clipped on: 03.07.2013 at 07:31 am    last updated on: 03.07.2013 at 07:33 am