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RE: Storing Bare Root Daylily Rhizomes? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: jackarias on 11.12.2007 at 12:41 pm in Daylily Forum

If they were my daylilies I would keep them dry and just above freezing with good air circulation.


clipped on: 11.12.2007 at 07:46 pm    last updated on: 11.12.2007 at 07:46 pm

bacteria vs fungi (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: jackarias on 11.09.2007 at 07:54 pm in Daylily Forum

Both bacteria and fungi are necessary to outcompete the pathogens and keep them at bay. Some tests have indicated that it is usually the fungi that is insufficent to provide good pathogen protection so any tea made for that purpose should be weighted towards growing fungi and not bacteria. The bacteria will be there, it is the fungi that is hard to get.


clipped on: 11.10.2007 at 12:39 am    last updated on: 11.10.2007 at 12:39 am

RE: Happy compost chat --?tea? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: jackarias on 11.09.2007 at 07:52 pm in Daylily Forum

Sugars such as molasses grow bacteria. There is always sufficient bacteria in compost if the compost was kept aerobic.

The compost if properly made will have more than sufficient bacteria and if the compost contained a high percentage of woody material such as wood pellets or chips for horse bedding it will also have sufficent fungi, again assuming it was kept aerobic.

If you want to brew tea and you do it aerobic it will smell good and be good. Don't put any bacteria food such as molasses in the compost tea since the bacteria can grow so fast the aeration cannot keep up with the growth and it can still go anaerobic.

The trick is to grow fungi. Daylilies prefer a soil that has three times as much fungi as bacteria so you need a compost that is primarily woody material with about 30-40 % manure. The wood grows fungi. You need fungal foods such as rolled oats, cornmeal, feathers. Then you can get the fungi to attach to the fungal foods and you are on your way to excellent aerobic compost tea.

Good compost is better than compost tea, but more expensive and more difficult to spread so that is why compost tea is used.

It takes about 1 cup of compost to make 4-5 gallons of compost tea.


clipped on: 11.10.2007 at 12:38 am    last updated on: 11.10.2007 at 12:39 am

RE: Rust in 2007 (Follow-Up #38)

posted by: katlynnlily on 10.23.2007 at 06:13 pm in Daylily Forum

I have kept close track of the rust in my garden this year. I plan to do as Ed suggests and cut back all of the foliage this winter, even the youngest seedlings. I have gotten rid of the daylilies that were most prone to rust. They were, IMO, rust magnets and not worth the trouble they were causing. The worst cultivars were:


I have had some daylilies for over 4 years that have never had rust. And I have some that have have had very little rust. The little bit of rust I have found on the following DL's (if any) has been confined to the bottom leaves closest to the ground. When these leaves are removed, the clump has stayed rust free for an entire growing season. I consider the following to be rust resistant:


There are an additional 70+ registered daylilies in my garden that I haven't listed. They aren't listed because they've been here less than 1 year ... or I have found them to be somewhere in the middle (they aren't good enough to call rust resistant nor bad enough to call rust magnets).


clipped on: 10.24.2007 at 03:33 am    last updated on: 10.24.2007 at 03:34 am

RE: Crown Rot....or What? Is It Catching? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: jackarias on 09.18.2007 at 02:04 pm in Daylily Forum

When we put in the new bed, we added composted manure (purchased at Lowe's), lots of peat moss, and cottonseed meal. We spread alfalfa pellets on top of the ground before adding pine bark mulch.

It is difficult to buy good bagged soil ammendments. You either don't need them or you use the wrong thing or they are not consistent and every once in awhile you "shoot yourself in the foot" using them. You either have to order compost from a place that will do it right, I've never found one, or do it yourself. The heat combined with too wet was the problem. The alfalfa pellets could have also been a factor. They will heat up as they break down and if concentrated they will cause problems. I know people love them and swear by them but it is really a waste of money. I recommend good compost made aerobically, never anaerobic compost. That is the problem with alfalfa tea, it is almost always made anaerobically so it will release good nutrients but the anaerobic conditions breed harmful microbiology. If it is kept aerobic then it will only breed beneficials but it is too hard. Just use good compost, whatever you can get your hands on. The mulch is a great idea too, the coarser the better because it will allow air to go through it and will not hold too much moisture against the foliage. Also coarse mulch reduces thrips by as much as 50%.

We haven't ever used Milorganite.

Milorganite is human manure so it is not chemical, heavy metals are removed and it is baked to kill everything including the beneficials.

Did we add something that would have contributed to crown rot?

Water. Possibly the alfalfa but probably not.

What about the composted manure?


What about one dose of alfalfa tea?

I never recommend any tea made anaerobically.

As a precaution, we dusted all the roots with sulfur before they were put in the ground.

That will not help crown rot and will kill the beneficial bacteria in the root area so probably not a good idea.

It's funny, the nameless daylilies I bought at a fund-raiser a few years ago and stuck in the ground out in front of our board fence along the road are doing great. Planted in terrible soil, they got no weeding, no fertilizer, no watering, nothing

So you have answered your own question. No WATER!! No fertilizer. Daylilies are not heavy feeders. I put mine in 100% compost and then add milorganite about 3 times a year. I use a 6.2.0 formula so it is organic and a very slow and low form of nitrogen.

In nature it is the bacteria that plants use (some fungi) for nitrogen. Bacteria have a ration of calcium to nitrogen of 5:1. As the beneficial fungi protozoa, and or beneficial nemetodes eat the bacteria they release the excess nitrogen to the plants. The vertical worm are a good sign there is healthy soil as they grind the soil to eat the bacteria and fungi. If earthworms are plentiful then it is a sign the soil is healthy. I'm not talking about the horizontal red worms that live under the duff and are also beneficial, but the big ones that make tunnels up and down in the soil.

Bacteria glues itself to the soil particles which helps build soil structure and the glue is a critical factor in maintaining the pH. It is the type of bacteria and fungi and the amount that is ultimately determining the pH. If you have lots of vertical worms you can assume they have plenty of food so you can also assume the pH is good.


clipped on: 09.19.2007 at 06:26 am    last updated on: 10.19.2007 at 11:46 am

RE: Crown Rot....or What? Is It Catching? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: jackarias on 09.18.2007 at 11:10 am in Daylily Forum

Crown rot is not infectious. Brown's Ferry is not responsible for your losses. Some plants have a better immune system than other so some plants are susceptible to rot while other never get rot. It isn't that they are prone to rot so much as they are prone to everything. It is just the same in that some plants are rust magnets while others never get rust. The mechanism to prevent certain diseases are healthier in some plants, it is in the genetics. Also the beneficial bacteria and fungi are more plentiful in some gardens. For example: If you over fertilize, especially with inorganic high nitrogen fertilizer you will get more of all diseases short and simple, it has been proven over and over but too many still fall into the over fertilizing routine. I have had a plant die of crown rot and planted another daylily right in the same spot doing nothing with the soil and then next plant in the same hole thrived.

During prolonged very hot and humid conditions rot can run as high as 25% of the plants where other areas with the very same plants will never get rot because of a less stressful climate.

Often it occurs with plants that have been recently dug and shipped or replanted so it is easy to blame the shipper.

Moisture is the key. In hot (above 95 degrees) and very humid conditions plants need to be kept dry, even if it means allowing the tops to die back the plants will live.

Twice I have had a clump that I dug die out entirely both those I shipped and those I kept so I assume that particular cultivar is prone to crown rot.

The first clue is you will see the entire top turn yellow and fall over. Once you notice that it is almost always to late to save the plant. When you examine the crown it is gray, mussy, and smells terrible - that is the rot. If you catch rot early enough and keep the crown dry enough you can almost always save the plant but few catch the rot in time and even fewer are willing to dry the plant out bone dry. I have read of many cures but they all involve getting the mushy part out that is loaded with bacteria, cleaning the wound, and then keeping the wounded area dry.

If you saw a corpse lying in the woods decomposing you would not say the animal died of rot. It is the same with daylilies, something else is happening and the rot is natures way of cleaning up.

I have observed that MILDRED MITCHELL & TEXAS WHOPPER STOPPER are rotters and yet I have had TEXAS WHOPPER STOPPER since it was introduced in 1998. I've learned to keep it on the dry side when it is dug. Fortunately we don't have heat or humidity here in San Diego so rot is almost never a problem but in areas such as Houston it can be a huge problem with losses of well established plants.

With rot the best thing to do is dig the plant and clean out the crown area as best you can then dry it with something like agricultural sulphur which will absorb the moisture and kill bacteria without killing the plant. They keep it dry till it starts growing again so you don't reintroduce rot. Planting the crown above the soil level will help. Plants planted to deep are more prone to rot. It may be that there was air under the plants crown. If too many roots are left on the plant the old roots can hold the plant up while the dirt under the crown settles. Then the plant settles too deep and the plant is more prone to rot. I always trim to roots down to 4"-5" inches and plant with the crown at soil level. I like to keep new plants in pots (I use excellent potting soil that I buy by the pickup truck load) until the pot is filled with roots and then set it out in the soil in its permanent location.


clipped on: 09.19.2007 at 06:16 am    last updated on: 10.19.2007 at 11:41 am

RE: First LA Win arrival!! (Pics) (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: fairysoapgirl on 09.11.2007 at 01:17 pm in Daylily Forum

How to post photos:

Get a free account at Photobucket. It is easy to use and everyone here knows how to help you. It should guide you through how to use it, but here are some links on this forum if you have trouble:

And Here


clipped on: 09.14.2007 at 06:16 pm    last updated on: 09.14.2007 at 06:16 pm

RE: What cultivars increase the Most and the Least (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: shive on 09.13.2007 at 05:36 pm in Daylily Forum

Fast increasers:

Ruby Lipstick from 1 to 5
Asian Fairy Bluebird from 2 to 5
Ada May Musick - from 3 to 7
Magic Amethyst - from 4 to 9
Adamas - from 2 to 6 fans
Kokopelli - from 2 to 6 fans
Robes For the Queen - from 2 to 5 fans

Slowest Increasers:
Creative Edge - Still one fan after three years
Sierra Grande - Still one fan after three years
In Search of Angels - Still three fans after three years
Symphony of Praise - Still two fans after two years.
Techy Peace - Still four fans after three years.


clipped on: 09.14.2007 at 12:36 am    last updated on: 09.14.2007 at 12:36 am

RE: Counting Fans (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: jackarias on 08.18.2007 at 01:56 pm in Daylily Forum

When a seller refers to a fan they should refer to a blooming size fan unless they clearly state otherwise. However, when refering to more than three fans they normally mean any independent piece of daylily which when planted will grow into a new individual plant.

I have received daylilies so small I could blow the fan through a straw but that is not typical. Plants coming from the south have a much longer growing season so the fans coming from the south are typically much larger than fans coming from the north. It is not fair to expect as large a fan or as many fans from a northern grower -- their season is just too much shorter.


clipped on: 09.13.2007 at 06:00 pm    last updated on: 09.13.2007 at 06:01 pm

RE: Rust Question (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: jackarias on 08.18.2007 at 01:50 pm in Daylily Forum

From reading here I think I understand that rust won't survive the winter in Massachusetts (assuming that global warming doesn't change my zone this winter) that right?

Global warming is only a problem with liberals however since you live in MA it will probably affect your state first unless Mit Romney finds a way to tax global warming and thus stop its growth through taxation.

We are protected from global warming, but not global whining, here in California through our liberal policies towards global warming.

Rust in MA is not a problem yet. For rust to live the spores must find a viable host within a few weeks so if the cold kills the foliage and there is not new healthy foliage available for a couple of months all is gone. Also for rust to take hold the foliage must remain moist for 4-5 hours so hot dry areas do not have a problem with rust.

If you get a plant with rust on it and plant it outside the rust will not overwinter.


clipped on: 09.13.2007 at 05:54 pm    last updated on: 09.13.2007 at 05:55 pm

Keeping them organized (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: jackarias on 09.12.2007 at 02:04 am in Daylily Forum

Again there are several methods to keep things organized. What are you going to do with all the plants? Will you sell them? Who will you sell them too? Will you have a catalog or walk in traffic or sell them on the internet or a combination?

The most organized system I saw was John Shooter. He has labels in the garden with a bar code, much like you see in a grocery store. He uses a bar code reader to scan the bar code right out in the garden and puts in an inventory count. That is downloaded into the computer. When he sells a plant a label is printed and the inventory is automatically adjusted right off the computer program.

They use golf carts to get around and go out with the printed labels and dig the order and bring it back to an area where they can wash, trim, and deliver the plants. For walk in traffic the entire clump is left with all the foliage and they tie it into a bundle and hand it to the customer.

Most of the other hybridizers I have seen plant in a row and they just lift out the item sold and hand it to the customer although most also have some in pots where the customer can just pick up the pot and take it to the sales area.


clipped on: 09.12.2007 at 01:35 pm    last updated on: 09.12.2007 at 01:35 pm

RE: Soil, Raised Beds or Pots (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: jackarias on 09.12.2007 at 01:54 am in Daylily Forum

In the ground is far easier than any other method. Pots don't always drain well, or wet well. It is common for the water to run down the sides of pots and wash the dirt away from the roots. If some soil is heavy and some soil is light the pots do not absorbe water at the same rate and you can have them too dry and too wet at the same time.

In the ground the roots can go deep but in pots they can easily get root bound.

You need to go to daylily Mecca (Orlando, FL) in May and see how Stamile, Trimmer, Hansen, Kinnebrew (raised beds in pots), and Frank Smith do it. (Also Abajian, Lambertson, and Rielly are in the same area.) You can ask the pros what they have tried and what works and why they do it the way they do.

I asked Jan Joiner how she plants, and she uses a seed wheel that spaces the seeds 4" apart and just walks down the row and plants all of her seeds.

Bob Carr uses little pots in a tray in a greenhouse to plant his seeds. A friend of mind tried the Bob Carr method and had disasterous results so what works for one will not necessarily give the same results to another. Keep in mind Florida has sandy soil. I have heavy clay so they water daily with free water pumped from a well. I pay one of the highest rates in the nation for water, my water bill for a small back yard 120 feet wide and 40 feet deep was $437 last month. Dan Hansen waters over 3 acres for about $8 a month.

Jeff Salter uses raised beds but they are a lot of work and a lot of expense. To my knowledge all but Carr plant their 1st year seedlings right in the ground. I think raised beds give a lot of satisfaction for those who need the illusion of control. In the end they are expensive, time consuming, inflexible, and entropy destroys raised beds. They can leak at the corners. Smith uses raised beds but he has a crew and lots of money. Most hybridizers in FL have greenhouses so they use benches and pots in the greenhouse but plant in the ground for most of thier plants.

Karol Emmerich uses a greenhouse but plants right in the ground in the greenhouse.

In the end most use pots for some applications and the ground for other applications but the only ones I know that use raised beds is Salter, and Kinnebrew who uses cinderblocks with planting boxes setting on the cinder boxes filled with dirt.

It is easier to use a watering system for pots that are in rows, with all the same soil and all the same size, but the system itself must be maintained.


clipped on: 09.12.2007 at 01:34 pm    last updated on: 09.12.2007 at 01:34 pm

RE: rust (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: jackarias on 10.16.2006 at 09:41 pm in Daylily Forum

Daconil is a waste of money, don't bother with it. I've found Physan 20 works well and they say a 1% solution of Ultra Dawn dish detergent works well as a contact killer. You will need a good systemic in addition to the contact killer and I cannot help you there.


clipped on: 09.12.2007 at 09:08 am    last updated on: 09.12.2007 at 09:08 am

RE: Help with crown rot (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: xokientx on 08.08.2007 at 09:28 pm in Daylily Forum

Inspect the plants. If they are not growing, or if any growth is turning yellow, dig them up.
Inspect the crowns; if there is no firm crown left, they're dead - discard them.
Those with firm crowns, remove any soft tissue, trim foliage and soak in a 10% bleach solution for 30 minutes, then put out to dry well in cool area with good air circulation. Dust cut crowns with sulfur if you have it.
After they have dried well, maybe 2-3 days, soak in 1/2 teaspoon SuperThrive/3 gal water for 30 minutes. Pot up in new or sterilized potting medium. Water in with the SuperThrive. Put in a cool shady spot and go easy on the watering until you get strong growth. Bring under cover if a strong storm threatens.
Good luck,


clipped on: 09.12.2007 at 09:05 am    last updated on: 09.12.2007 at 09:06 am

RE: How important is it? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: shive on 08.16.2007 at 05:33 pm in Daylily Forum

If new plants I get in the early spring put up scapes, I let them bloom. I would cut scapes off a new one trying to bloom now. The plants need to put their energy into putting down roots and settling in for the fall/winter. A new plant that is stressed by trying to bloom in the heat of summer weather may not make it through the winter. Or, if it does, may not bloom at all the next year.



clipped on: 09.12.2007 at 09:03 am    last updated on: 09.12.2007 at 09:03 am

RE: Transplanting in the south (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: jackarias on 09.07.2007 at 11:33 am in Daylily Forum

Once the plants in pots have a good root system established they can go in the ground. When you slide the pot away from the root ball you should see lots of roots on the sides and in the bottom. You want to get the root ball in the ground before the roots fill the bottom of the pot and start to spiral around and around the bottom becoming root bound. In my experience this typically takes a minimum of 8 weeks to get established and about three months to start to get root bound. It will vary depending on climate, potting soil used, water and fertilizer but if they are in a pot and full of roots they can be in the ground and full of roots with no setback whatsoever.

In areas where the ground freezes hard the sooner you get them in the ground the better. In mild climates like mine where the ground never freezes they can be planted anytime but I've found it is still good to get the daylilies in the ground here by early October for best results.

The plants almost always do better in the ground than in pots. If the roots are not well established and you put them in the ground then give them a temporary shade barrier. We almost never get hot hot summers so summer dormancy and heat protection is not an issue for me but I am aware of how summers can cause heat stress, heat dormancy and rot in hot and humid areas such as Houston.


clipped on: 09.12.2007 at 08:57 am    last updated on: 09.12.2007 at 08:57 am

RE: beginner here with seedlings... (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: jackarias on 09.12.2007 at 02:08 am in Daylily Forum

Chris. My advice is to put all of the seeds of one cross into a one gal. pot whether there is one seed or 100 seeds. When they sprout and have roots about 2" long separate them out and plant them in a row in the ground. That way you are only planting the seeds that have sprouted. You will get better germination by planting them all together at least it worked well for me and my mentor Robbie has used this method for years.


clipped on: 09.12.2007 at 08:54 am    last updated on: 09.12.2007 at 08:54 am