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RE: Durango limestone backsplash? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: charlikin on 10.13.2008 at 02:08 pm in Kitchens Forum

Ngng, I found your backsplash in the blog yesterday - that is SO gorgeous with your granite! Is your durango honed or tumbled? Would you mind very much if I just copied your backsplash verbatim??? (I thought it might be too traditional for what I was thinking of as my contemporary kitchen, but the carpenter starting putting up the crown molding today, and it's starting to look a little more traditional...)

What does everyone think of diagonal tile on the backsplash with a diagonal floor? (Only a narrow strip of floor will show - about two tiles across - it's a galley kitchen!)

Keepingitsimple, no decision yet. I really would like to do the backsplash now (i.e. in a few weeks), while I've got the contractor's attention... because I really need to paint, and I want the paint color to coordinate with the backsplash. Seeing the kitchen take shape might help me figure it out... for example, that crown molding might influence a few things. (Glad I didn't buy those super-contemporary cabinet door handles yet!!!)


clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 02:09 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 02:09 pm

RE: Anyone with a 1/8 grout line? (Follow-Up #28)

posted by: ccoombs1 on 10.01.2008 at 07:28 am in Kitchens Forum

ngng, that is honestly one of the nicest backsplashes I have ever seen. The color of the think accent strip is a perect compliment to your granite but does not take away from the granite at all. VERY nice job!


clipped on: 10.02.2008 at 01:35 pm    last updated on: 10.02.2008 at 01:36 pm

RE: Anyone with a 1/8 grout line? (Follow-Up #25)

posted by: lynn2006 on 09.30.2008 at 12:48 am in Kitchens Forum

ngng, I love your travertine tiles so much and I love the thinner 1/8th grout line! What color grout did you use? What is the name of the travertine tiles you used that would be a great for a kitchen!


clipped on: 10.02.2008 at 01:35 pm    last updated on: 10.02.2008 at 01:35 pm

RE: still need help with backsplash-granite or tile? (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: erikanh on 09.23.2008 at 10:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

I vote for tile as well. I think ngng's backsplash is stunning and would recommend something similar with accents that pick up the color of your granite.

I tried to Paint your backsplash but couldn't do it because it wasn't a straight-on photo.


clipped on: 09.26.2008 at 01:54 pm    last updated on: 09.26.2008 at 01:55 pm

RE: OT: Now I feel like crying...these crooks just keep getting (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: sailormann on 09.25.2008 at 11:51 pm in Kitchens Forum

"Isn't there a way we can request a forum to be started that can be dedicated for these types of issues? Somewhere where members can go to convey positive and negative issues they've experienced with specific companies they're working with. I think it would be an invaluable resource for members of the forum, don't you? In the meantime, I hope this turns around for you, and you're able to come out of it ok. -- Lukki"

There are three websites that I check out before I do business with anybody. They are:, Homestars and the Better Business Bureau. Of the three, Homestars is my favorite. I encourage everyone on this forum to use Homestars. At the very least, bad work should be reported to the Better Business Bureau.


places to check !!
clipped on: 09.26.2008 at 01:44 pm    last updated on: 09.26.2008 at 01:44 pm

RE: Wine Glass Racks (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: abbycat9990 on 09.11.2008 at 10:53 am in Kitchens Forum

I can fit three different sizes of wine glasses, and also brandy snifters on my Ikea wine glass racks. The metal tine sets are 5" apart, so unless users of these racks only have glasses that exceed 5" in diameter, one should be able to stagger the glasses by width as necessary.

I was intrigued by Igloo's comment re wine glass girth. I wondered if I've been missing out on buzz quality by not having giant bowls in which to swirl my wine. I found the link below for a brief intro to wine glass sizes and their benefits. I still don't see any glasses greater in girth than 5", and I think my buzz quality remains uncompromised. Granted, we only imbibe with other university folk or neighbors, and perhaps our tastes are not as refined as those of the oil elite ;-)

Anyway, here's our setup:

Here is a link that might be useful: Intro to wine glass sizing


clipped on: 09.11.2008 at 01:24 pm    last updated on: 09.11.2008 at 01:25 pm

RE: Kitchen budget revamp - almost complete! (jel stain!) (Follow-Up #25)

posted by: projectsneverend on 06.24.2008 at 08:17 am in Kitchens Forum

I pretty much followed celticmoon's steps... (THANK YOU celticmoon!! :)

My process:
Remove doors. Remove hardware. We did leave hinges on and taped them off. (DH was afraid he'd never get them back on and didn't want to mess with getting new -- I picked my battles and went with it! ;)

I lightly sanded mostly using sanding sponges which allowed me to get into the cut-outs better. My doors were VERY shiny so I sanded enough to get the shine off. Then tack clothed them, then mineral spirits.

I put on a thick layer of General Finishes Gel Stain - JAVA. This stuff is so awesome. Then I wiped off. I left it on pretty thick... too thick. If I was to do it over I would definitely wipe off more because it took a loooong time to dry. I was trying to skip steps but I think 2 or 3 thin coats would have been better. It was a rainy weekend, too, so drying was tough in the first place.

DH had rigged up a way for me to hang the doors by the hinges so I hung them to dry which enabled me to do fronts and backs. When they were finally dry I did a thin layer of General Finishes Gel Clear Coat. I spread it on until it all looked wet but wiped away any drips. Once dry I very lightly sanded, then tack clothed, then we put the doors back on. I did another clear coat with the doors up and left the doors open to dry.
I've done a few touch ups here and there with a stain and a clear coat.

I would highly recommend general finishes gel stain! I babied the cabs for a few days but my 3 and 5 year old kiddos have not and the color seems to be holding up perfectly.

The plate rack - we needed to do something with the space above the micro since the doors would not fit back on. I measured it and ordered cheap plate racks from Target to fit across the space. I stained them to match and DH screwed them in. It was really too simple.

Our granite was about $2300. We used a granite slab from an installer's shop which saved us about $500, supposedly. I LOVE my granite.

Thanks for the brick compliments, also. I painted that quite a long time ago and have debated ever since about ripping it out and putting in a real backsplash. But I do like the simplicity of it and it all seems to tie together now.

Igloochic - I'm not sure what you mean with the trim... I've seen it where they put wood fronts on the soffits to make them look like cabs but I'm not clear here. Do you mean there would be a trim piece on top of the cab, then painted soffit, then another trim piece?

I think the wall is going to come out end of summer. Yikes. Another project in the making. Then we'll have to figure out new flooring.

By the time we're done with this house - I'm not going to want to leave! :)

Thanks again for all of the nice compliments. It's really hard for me to get good pics of the cabs and everyone that has seen them irl says my pics don't do justice!

I love this site!


gel stain
clipped on: 06.24.2008 at 01:06 pm    last updated on: 06.24.2008 at 01:07 pm

RE: Kitchen budget revamp - almost complete! (jel stain!) (Follow-Up #24)

posted by: celticmoon on 06.22.2008 at 11:18 pm in Kitchens Forum

I just posted my step by step on a nearby thread. Projctsneverend reported that sealing with a clear coat BEFORE the color gel coats helped the color be even, She used General Finishes products also I think.

Any other tips, Projectsneverend??

Here is a link that might be useful: other gel stain thread with steps/info


gel stain
clipped on: 06.24.2008 at 01:04 pm    last updated on: 06.24.2008 at 01:04 pm

RE: Is your dishwasher attached to your granite or the countertop (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: momj47 on 06.13.2008 at 11:56 am in Kitchens Forum

Mine is attached to a small strip of wood set into a groove routed into the bottom of the granite in front of the dishwasher. My granite fabricators/installers and KD did a good job with appliances.


great idea
clipped on: 06.13.2008 at 01:24 pm    last updated on: 06.13.2008 at 01:24 pm

RE: A cautionary tale about strawberries on granite (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: stonegirl on 06.09.2008 at 12:24 pm in Kitchens Forum

You can poultice an organic stain with beauty shop strength hydrogen peroxide and diatomaceous earth or any other poultice base (talc, flour or even white paper towels)

Be sure to reseal the stone once you have poulticed out the stain.


stained granite fix
clipped on: 06.09.2008 at 12:25 pm    last updated on: 06.09.2008 at 12:26 pm

RE: Blanco Silgranit Sink (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: sundodger on 08.22.2006 at 03:31 am in Remodeling Forum

I'm a bit late on this follow-up, but I figured I'd share my experience. Story time, story time, gather 'round.

I have a black Silgranit sink, and recently grouted my tile backsplash. When it was all done, the backsplash looked good, the sink, not so much. I didn't know about how the grout can leave a haze on the Silgranit finish until after seeing it happen to my sink (and reading this thread to see it's a known issue).

I got in touch with the distributor, who told me that she had accompanied a Blanco rep on a "house call". To remove a similar haze, the rep had used CLR and a regular green Scotch-Brite scouring pad.

So it was now my turn. Bottle of CLR, and instead of the green "heavy duty" pad, I went with the blue "no scratch" pad. Poured some CLR into a glass container, dunked the pad, and scoured the sink rather lightly. About 2-3 minutes later, rinsed the sink and dried it. The haze was still there. Second try, this time I put some muscle into it, scouring in circles. Again, after about 2-3 minutes, rinsed and dried. This time, the haze was mostly gone. For grins, I did a final, third pass with the CLR, scrub, and rinse. After the rinse, I made sure all the CLR was gone by going over the sink with soap and water. It works!

Now, I don't know if it's fully recovered, but I think it's darn close. I also have a Silgranit bar sink that I never use, and that sink seems to be blacker, and the water pools better. That may just be a coat of oil or something left over from manufacturing (did I mention I never use my bar sink?). But it's definitely looking nice again. No more ugly haze.


clean sink
clipped on: 06.05.2008 at 02:25 pm    last updated on: 06.05.2008 at 02:25 pm

RE: new to granite (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: bill_vincent on 06.04.2008 at 09:45 am in Kitchens Forum

Get yourself a wormdrive skillsaw (that's the one that looks like a "stretch" model) You're also going to want a dry diamond blade for it. Now, you can do one of two things. You can either cut just with that, which may give you a bit of a chipped edge. But if this is for garden "steps", that shouldn't be a big deal. OR, you can look on line for a water hookup for the saw (they DO make them, and yes, they're safe. I've used them several times myself) and cut the stone wet. Either way will work.

Or, you could do it the poor man's way, and just hold a sopping wet sponge against the blade as you cut, too. (been there, done that one, too!)

Which ever way you end up cutting. make sure to put down some kind of tape for the "plate" of the saw to ride on so you don't scratch the stone.


cutting granite
clipped on: 06.04.2008 at 01:41 pm    last updated on: 06.04.2008 at 01:41 pm

RE: Custom drawer insert - am I crazy? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: kompy on 04.26.2008 at 11:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

I drew up a similar drawing for my DH. He made these for me. I love them. Click on the image to enlarge. I'm a KD and I have thought about having him make these for my customers per their specs. He told me once he'd charge about $65 per drawer. But I have never gotten around to having him make me a display model. Maybe someday.

If you know anyone who is handy, have them make it for you. My DH is fairly handy, but not a craftsman type at all.



drawer insert
clipped on: 04.28.2008 at 02:41 pm    last updated on: 04.28.2008 at 02:41 pm

RE: new here and begging for help! (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: remodelfla on 04.20.2008 at 09:15 pm in Kitchens Forum

I used Excel because I had so much trouble using the drawing programs that are compatible with a Mac. Try this:
1. Use Excel spreadsheet. Set your column width and height to a size to represent 1' for each square (.33 for both or .25 worked for me)
2. Create your layout using the tools (rectangle, lines)
3. Once it's done open up Powerpoint.
4. Copy your Excel layout and then paste it into Powerpoint (presentation option)
5. Once it appears on your slide save it into pictures as a jpeg.
6. Go to and create an account (free)
7. You can then upload your saved jpeg slide in powerpoint into photobucket.
8. From photobucket, you can imbed layout drawing into your message in this forum. If you copy/paste the html. address option under your photobucket slide into your message, it will appear when you post.

There... I think I remember all the steps for you. Hope that helps!


Mac related
clipped on: 04.21.2008 at 01:48 pm    last updated on: 04.21.2008 at 01:48 pm

RE: Only one without design software? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: remodelfla on 04.07.2008 at 11:13 am in Kitchens Forum

I was so where you are now just a week ago. It was driving me absolutely crazy that I couldn't figure out how to draw a layout. Sketchup was just too sensitive (or something) for me. I downloaded LiveInterior for free and ended up purchasing it ($80) just so I can save one of my drawings. The easiest, cheapest, and most user friendly thing ended up being Excel. Just set the height and width range of the cells to something to resemble graph paper (I used .31 but could have gone a little larger I think). Make sure that whatever you set them , you set them the same size.

After you draw and save; you then want to open up Powerpoint Presentation.
Copy and paste your Excel drawing into powerpoint. Save in Powerpoint as a jpg. (will be on the pulldown menu asking what you want to save it as). Once you do that you can upload the image you create in Excel into photobucket from your Powerpoint Presentation slide. Once in photobucket, you can then imbed the image into a forum question or create a link for readers to click on.

I drove myself mad till I got this and couldn't have done it without other forum members help. I really hope this helps you. I can actually feel your frustration. Good luck!... it will get easier.


drawing software
clipped on: 04.10.2008 at 12:40 pm    last updated on: 04.10.2008 at 12:40 pm

RE: Pegasus T4 Fixture Owners: Install Question (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: glassman on 03.31.2008 at 09:38 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here is a possible option for you. I used a shallow box intended for surface wiring, like plug mold. You can get these at Lowes (see link below) or Home Depot. They are 15/16 inch. When adding a standard blank cover, the total thickness is about 1 1/8 inches. I used a grommet for the T4 wire (see photo). I think I used a big grommet for the Romex line wire, but an electrician could figure out what would work best to keep the box installed thickness <1 inch.

The light rail shown is 1 1/8 inch, which nicely hides the lights in an unobtrusive frame.

Here is a link that might be useful: Shallow box


u/c wiring
clipped on: 04.03.2008 at 02:26 pm    last updated on: 04.03.2008 at 02:27 pm

RE: Please vote on grout color for my tumbled Noce backsplash. (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: socabeth on 03.01.2008 at 08:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's the look with light grout:
I think thats the same stone as yours. I used the light grout to go with the cabinets, but I'm not sure that is the look for you! It would go with your granite though!


clipped on: 03.03.2008 at 05:24 pm    last updated on: 03.14.2008 at 05:14 pm

RE: Show me your Gadget Drawer (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: cat_mom on 03.08.2008 at 03:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here are some of mine:

tongs, spatulas, ladles, measuring spoons, peelers, etc...

wine, whisks, and more!

upper cab to left of range hood


gadget drawer
clipped on: 03.09.2008 at 09:22 pm    last updated on: 03.09.2008 at 09:22 pm

RE: What do I use where the tile backsplash meets the granite? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: bill_vincent on 02.26.2008 at 06:36 pm in Kitchens Forum

Can I use a sanded siliconized acrylic latex caulk ???

That's exactly what you want to use. He can pick it up in the very same color as your grout from the same place he bought your grout.


clipped on: 02.27.2008 at 10:26 pm    last updated on: 02.27.2008 at 10:26 pm

Picture (Follow-Up #27)

posted by: lindawink on 01.24.2008 at 09:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

Oops, lets try again



clipped on: 01.30.2008 at 02:13 pm    last updated on: 01.30.2008 at 02:13 pm

RE: Need opinions on backsplash ideas (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: socabeth on 01.29.2008 at 09:14 am in Kitchens Forum

I ditto what pllog says....I like the shape of the third picture and like the idea of using your mosaic for a "rectangle". But it sounds like you want more color and contrast. Your kitchen looks pretty and soothing....I'm a "blendy" type and wouldn't want to distract too much from the rest of your beautiful kitchen!
But the reason I responded is to show you what they did around my window with the backsplash.....


clipped on: 01.30.2008 at 01:50 pm    last updated on: 01.30.2008 at 01:50 pm

RE: Does anyone have under cabinet light molding? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: jraz_wa on 11.24.2007 at 06:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

We had a shaker style door and light molding. Here are some pics:

Cabinet and molding -

Close-up of molding -

Underside of cabinet -

I believe the molding was about 1" high. I used Gorilla Glue and clamps to attach it.


clipped on: 01.10.2008 at 05:18 pm    last updated on: 01.10.2008 at 05:18 pm

Natural stone primer/ granite 101 by stonegirl

posted by: mary_in_nc on 11.04.2007 at 09:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Found this through google search- apparently this was a previous thread in KF by Stonegirl. Felt it worth repeating.

Hi folks -

This is a little article I wrote on another forum and in reply to a few questions regarding the selection of natural stone and stone fabricators.

In an industry that has no set standards, there are a lot of unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued or brushed should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab, looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab. Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This got done at the plant where the slabs were finished and is to add support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.

On cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e. there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure. A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole nother can of worms.

On resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer. Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed does not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but gets resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Now for some pointers on recognizing good craftsmanship and quality fabricators:

Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality and their placement and still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:

- It should be flat. According to the MIA a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.

- It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)

- The color on either side of the seam should match as close as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.

- Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.

- The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.

- The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)

- The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as close as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try an make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

Seam placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

Among the things the fabricator needs to look at when deciding on the seam placement are:

- The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)

- Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available

- Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will impact seam placement here alone.

- Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some don't. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.

- Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -

- Installability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again a 1001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

With modern glues and seaming methods a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam was done well, there would be - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs, and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece.

Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent, would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e. eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.

Like I said earlier - edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.

A good edge should have the following characteristics:

- Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull or waxy.

- The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.

- The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.

- A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.

- A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanised fabrication (i.e. CNC macines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

We have seen some terrible edges in jobs done by our competitors.

Do your research and look at actual kitchens. Talk to clients and ask them about the fabricator. Most good fabricators will not hesitate to supply the names and numbers of clients willing to provide referrals. Do your homework.



clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 12:16 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 12:16 pm

RE: Where did you put recycle bin pull-out cabinet? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: linda-z on 11.15.2007 at 08:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have four long, narrow tilt-outs in the back of my island. One is for plastic/glass, another is for mixed paper, the third is for newspaper, and the fourth is for dog food! The bins are attached to the door, and there is a little shelf to hold the paper bags we use for recycling. It is very convenient.

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tilt out cabs
clipped on: 11.16.2007 at 03:32 pm    last updated on: 11.16.2007 at 03:32 pm

RE: Full granite backsplash vs 'something else'... (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: susan4664 on 11.16.2007 at 12:17 pm in Kitchens Forum

I had a difficult time with this decision as well. KD tried to talk me into full backsplash, and I might have been inclined to do it if I had chosen a light granite. I went with a dark granite and I didn't want that dark reflective look when I entered the kitchen. We went with a tumbled marble to give some contrast to the dark cabinet and countertop and we love it. People often comment on the backsplash. Here is a picture.

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backsplash and layout
clipped on: 11.16.2007 at 02:58 pm    last updated on: 11.16.2007 at 02:59 pm

RE: price differences of kitchen cabinets (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: susan4664 on 10.16.2007 at 09:33 am in Kitchens Forum

I just finished my kitchen rebuild and went through the same questions. We had a large kitchen company quote $19,000 for cabinets, a smaller kitchen place quote $15,000, Home Depot was $12,000 and a custom cabinet maker quoted $16,800. We went with the custom cabinet maker.

The kitchen companies order the boxes and install them. The cabinet guy built everything from scratch and made whatever minor tweaks were needed to fit everything "plum" and perfect! Originally the partial wall on the left did not have a cabinet because it was to short. He actually had drywall work done to extend it so that he could add the extra corner cabinet with the glass, making the kitchen look more balanced from the front. Good Carpenters are artists. The cabinets are magnifico! He turned out to be a real master craftsman. He spent many hours at our house custom-mixing stains until we hit just the right color. We didn't simply have to pick from a swatch of color choices. We chose maple wood, in a cherry stain.

The cabinet guy is the designer, builder, installer. He "owned" the job. With all the other companies the designer gets a commission, then a separate company delivers the pre-built cabinets, then separate people do the install, etc. The only word of caution is to pick someone after checking business licenses. The cabinet guy took 12 weeks to build and during that time he could have gone out of business, gotten sick, or any number of things that could have prevented him from finishing, after receiving several thousand dollars from us.

Here are my pictures. The granite is Peacock Green, which he helped us pick. We went with the tumbled marble backsplash because we felt the peacock green all around would make the kitchen look dark and closed in. We are sooo happy with all the choices and wouldn't change a thing, especially the cabinet maker!

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similiar layout
clipped on: 11.13.2007 at 03:50 pm    last updated on: 11.13.2007 at 03:50 pm

My favorite lighting links

posted by: jon1270 on 11.15.2006 at 08:13 am in Lighting Forum

Since I set about planning the lighting for my recent kitchen remodel I've spent a lot of time reading everything I could find on lighting design. It's been a bit of an obsession. Anyhow, I thought it might be appropriate to share the better online lighting design resources I've found.

Lighting Design Lab has all sorts of good stuff, including an Articles page with stuff like Eric Strandberg's Residential Ramblings.

Randall Whitehead's Top 10 Lighting Tips are worth looking at. His is the best of the lighting books I've read.

This site has another nice selection of short articles on general lighting design.

The California Lighting Technology Center at U.C. Davis has resources that focus on energy-efficient lighting, including the very nice Title 24 Residential Lighting Design Guide

If you're confused by some of the terminology, this lighting glossary might help.

Lastly, I found this PDF on Reflector lamp photometrics very helpful when learning to understand the most important properties of the bulbs used in the ubiquitous recessed can.

I hope these are useful!


clipped on: 11.10.2007 at 06:32 pm    last updated on: 11.10.2007 at 06:32 pm

RE: Air Gaps- how to re-work them (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: tahoebo on 10.31.2007 at 11:44 pm in Kitchens Forum

I've been struggling with the exact same thing. I found these combo air gap / soap dispenser things, which is what I'm probably going to go with.

Here is a link that might be useful: Air-gap soap dispensers


air gap soap dispenser
clipped on: 11.01.2007 at 12:59 pm    last updated on: 11.01.2007 at 01:00 pm

RE: Tell me how you handle storage under your sink? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: chmpgntst on 09.18.2007 at 08:30 am in Kitchens Forum

Well, springwater, this is a question I've been waiting for!

One of my goals in my new kitchen was to get the under-sink area organized. I was always losing stuff in the back.

I used a pull-out, two-tiered shelf from the container store. The bottom shelf is nice and deep so things don't fall over, and if something leaks or spills, it is contained. The top shelf is shallower and great for things like sponges, dishcloths, and random small stuff.

I didn't have enough room for another pull-out on the right due to the disposal, so I just put a plastic box from container store. When I get inspired, I will probably re-arrange so that the plastic box has the cleaning supplies I use all around the house -- so I can grab it and go.

I have had this set-up for a couple months now and it has served me well!

This is all under an Elkay stainless apron sink. It is not the deepest sink in the world, so YMMV. I just measured and my cabinet door opening below the apron is 20.5 inches high.

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under sink storage
clipped on: 10.29.2007 at 07:17 pm    last updated on: 10.29.2007 at 07:17 pm

RE: Best online sites to buy appliances (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: gnomelover on 09.22.2007 at 04:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

I bought our microwave online at It is refurbished, but I bought it with shipping and no tax for $392. Retails for $550. It also comes with a one year warrnaty. I also went through and was able to get 4% back on my purchase after it was shipped. I wanted a kenmore elite cooktop, so I waited for it to be 20% off and then I bought it again through so that I would get another 2% back. I just picked it up in store. Also, for my wall oven, I googled the item number, found it the cheapest with free shipping. I printed this information out, and took it to Sears, who price matched it and gave me 10% of the difference.


sears discount
clipped on: 10.25.2007 at 03:15 pm    last updated on: 10.25.2007 at 03:15 pm

RE: Pulldown faucets with metal heads (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: lisa_sandiego on 10.24.2007 at 01:15 pm in Kitchens Forum

Yes, the sink is siligranite. Made by Blanco. $379 at Home Depot Expo. The faint white splotches on the back wall are reflections of the drains from the flash.
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siligranit sink
clipped on: 10.25.2007 at 01:18 pm    last updated on: 10.25.2007 at 01:18 pm

RE: Plugmolds--have you had problems with them? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: needanap on 09.05.2007 at 09:30 pm in Kitchens Forum

Love my plugmold! Mine are mounted at a 45 degree angle in the back corner between upper cabinets and top of backsplash. That makes them very easy to use. I think you can find angled plugmold which is more $$ than regular flat plugmold, but my builder just mounted the flat stuff on an angled block of wood in the corner. Works great - wouldn't want it any other way! Here is a pic. Hope this helps. It is completely hidden from view by the light rail, unless you bend down to see it.

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plug mold on 45
clipped on: 10.23.2007 at 06:59 pm    last updated on: 10.23.2007 at 07:00 pm

Rev-A-Shelf Spice Racks for Fillers -- Have you seen these!!!!

posted by: carrianne22 on 10.11.2007 at 08:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

We needed to add in a couple of 3-inch fillers to center our sink cabinet...stumbled upon the Rev-a-shelf spice rack for fillers. AWESOME!! I am so excited!!

I found the best price for them at:
Great customer service and super super fast shipping!

Rev-Shelf Spice Rack pictures:
Kitch Prog
Password: pics

Here is a link that might be useful: Rev-A-Shelf Spice Rack pictures


clipped on: 10.22.2007 at 07:38 pm    last updated on: 10.22.2007 at 07:38 pm

RE: Best advice from this forum (Follow-Up #23)

posted by: chmpgntst on 07.18.2007 at 04:21 pm in Kitchens Forum

Can I change my answer? I really like this that I stole from Dmlove---
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I love not having all those cords on my desk/countertop! So best advice from this forum... details make the difference!


clipped on: 10.19.2007 at 03:04 pm    last updated on: 10.19.2007 at 03:04 pm

RE: Finally buying the sink but... are they lying? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: sleepydrj on 07.29.2007 at 04:19 am in Kitchens Forum

There are two versions available now. The older one has the drain to the side (not center). It can be used as a drop in, or an undermount. If you undermount it, it is expected that you will route out the plywood under your countertop (granite). The new version is designed to be an undermount. It has the drain hole in the center. We used soapstone, and so have no plywood to route out... the old version would have caused us problems. We are loving the sink! The Biscuit color is great with black soapstone counters and white cabinets.


silgranit - two versions
clipped on: 08.02.2007 at 03:20 pm    last updated on: 08.02.2007 at 03:21 pm

RE: stainless dishwasher panel--where to find? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: nadine33 on 07.30.2007 at 12:30 pm in Kitchens Forum

We did this too. Try the following:

or just do a search for "dishwasher parts".


dishwasher panel
clipped on: 07.30.2007 at 03:30 pm    last updated on: 07.30.2007 at 03:31 pm

RE: tray cabinets - top 1/2 wasted space (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: needanap on 07.29.2007 at 05:23 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here is mine. I have only one tray divider on the right in this cabinet, for cutting boards. On the left, I keep the wok and baskets. The shelf above is great! I keep large serving trays, the pizza stone, and the griddle there. Those items could also go vertically in another tray divider, but this is how it ended up working for me. Great use of space, IMO. Works best for items that I don't access every day. They are tucked up and out of the way.
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tray divider w/ shelf
clipped on: 07.30.2007 at 03:07 pm    last updated on: 07.30.2007 at 03:07 pm