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RE: Looking for a true gray (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: funcolors on 01.31.2013 at 05:46 pm in Home Decorating & Design Forum

In architectural paint, a "gray" can be found from every hue family. You're just picking out the ones with blue, purple or green hue parents.

Many people do that because near neutral gray paint colors from the blue, purple, and green hue families look most similar to a real neutral gray - everyone has a similar notion of what a neutral gray should look like. And even though near gray paint colors from the blue, purple and green hue families look most like the actual color known as neutral gray, they are not gray. They are still colors. It's an easy mistake to make.

It can be very difficult to identify what hue family a paint color that is very near a neutral gray belongs to -- because there's so little hue in the color to "see" and then categorize into a hue family.

I'm going to post a picture of near neutral gray paint colors from a color system that orders its color based on hue family. It shows paint colors that are all in the very same, very tight range of grayness. In other words, each of these colors has the very same amount of grayness. The blue, purple and green paint colors shown in the picture are no more or no less gray than the other colors. We know that because these colors have notations which means they've been measured.

Picture #2 is a picture of the Benjamin Moore color rack. You can see how it's organized by hue family across the top. At the bottom you can see how the colors get grayer - colors from every hue family get grayer. Not just the colors from the blue, purple and green hue families.

The solution for you is to broaden your perception of what gray means. Start looking for paint colors that are indeed very near a neutral gray but from other hue families besides just blue, purple and green.

Because one of them will partner with the light you have to work with and deliver to meet your perception of a "truer medium gray".


clipped on: 06.17.2013 at 02:09 pm    last updated on: 06.17.2013 at 02:09 pm

RE: Anyone have brackets/corbels under top cabinet ends? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: boxerpups on 05.26.2011 at 08:23 pm in Kitchens Forum

I wish I had corbels. I love all these images below.
I hope they help you with ideas.








Black Counter


white appliances



large sink





clipped on: 05.28.2011 at 02:43 pm    last updated on: 05.28.2011 at 02:43 pm

fire & ice backsplash

posted by: favabeans5 on 10.05.2008 at 09:30 pm in Kitchens Forum

anybody out there shopped around for this tile? What/where did you get the best price? I've seen anywhere from $19 to $14/sq ft on here but not always where they got the prices from?

hope this isn't against any sort of forum rules..



clipped on: 05.05.2011 at 09:01 pm    last updated on: 05.05.2011 at 09:01 pm

Any install advice for fire and ice?

posted by: kristine_2009 on 06.08.2010 at 11:49 pm in Kitchens Forum

Well, my fire and ice is finally here! We are thinking of installing it ourselves. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? Wondering what color grout to get and what type of thinset. Any tips on cutting?

I am excited to get it up and finally have a finished kitchen! :)


clipped on: 05.05.2011 at 08:47 pm    last updated on: 05.05.2011 at 08:47 pm

RE: Oyster vs. Morel (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: la_jan on 02.08.2010 at 11:13 am in Kitchens Forum

I am a lurker and have never posted before, but have learned so much hanging out. I got excited and came out of the shadow when I heard Moral vs. Oyster. I used the moral with heirloom finish in my kitchen. I liked it because it was more creamy white than the oyster, which seemed to have more yellow than I wanted. I used light oak floors, honed calcutta gold backsplash and a verde lichen quartzite counter top. I used green soapstone on the hutch. Wall paint was BM Fossil. You can see how lighting can affect color.


clipped on: 03.02.2011 at 03:43 pm    last updated on: 03.02.2011 at 03:44 pm

Dark Numerar Countertop from IKEA

posted by: reshal on 08.10.2009 at 10:57 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here are photos of one of a Numerar countertop we bought at Ikea. I stained it with the same stain as my floors and finished it with Waterlox satin. Grand total approx. $215 for wood and Waterlox. This is to the left of my refrigerator, I did another one with a sink for the right of my fridge. Just thought someone out there in GW land might be thinking how a dark stain would look on the inexpensive IKEA wood beech countertop...




clipped on: 02.09.2011 at 10:10 pm    last updated on: 02.09.2011 at 10:11 pm

pictures of warm white cabinets with lighter granite

posted by: eks6426 on 02.12.2010 at 12:49 pm in Kitchens Forum

Many people have the contrast look with warm white cabinets and dark (often black) counter tops. I felt my kitchen was too small to handle dark counter tops so I chose a lighter granite. Now, it's getting close to install time and I'm starting to panic thinking that light granite on top of warm white cabinets might be too much light. I have medium brown wood floors and lighter sage green walls.

I'd love to see some pictures of warm white cabinets with lighter countertops.



clipped on: 02.08.2011 at 10:46 pm    last updated on: 02.08.2011 at 10:46 pm

Some of the best advice from the braintrust on this forum

posted by: gsmama on 02.05.2011 at 11:25 am in Kitchens Forum

I was googling gardenweb and advice last night and came across a great thread that is no longer open but that had been bumped up a few times since it was started by justadncr in 2007 by asking everyone to share the best advice they'd picked up on this forum.

There are a bunch of gems I hadn't run across and wouldn't have even thought to ask or google ( don't know what you don't know). Plumgold? Never MT? All news to me from reading the thread. I consolidated the info so that I could print it (it would have been a breathtaking 41 pages had I tried to print it straight...) and thought I'd share for other newbies and to maybe get any other additions...

The biggest tip I learned and did as a result was that lumberyards sometimes carry mainstream cabinet lines for less. The place I ordered for carries Dynasty Omega, Shiloh and Meridian and the bulk of their business goes to contractors which helped with the pricing in my case vs. going with a custom cabinet maker--I got a variety of quotes.

With thanks to the OP and everyone who shared, here is their wisdom (please pardon the bullets are reading as diamonds with question marks. Oh well.):

Best advice I got from this forum:

� lay the kitchen out on the ground outside with all the measurements and walk around it to see if it felt right. I took my measurements and scraps of wood and laid them out in the various plans I had come up with.
� check out the sound of the fan in the new ovens. I would have been pretty steamed to spend a bunch on a new range and have that sound come blaring out each time I used the oven.
� putting Blumotion on the cabinet doors. This is my favorite feature in our kitchen and the cost was cheap to add these on after the cab install.
� "zones" on this forum, and designed my kitchen around them, with a tremendous amount of help from my forum friends. In my old kitchen, the dishwasher opened across from the island (right into the backs of my legs). Now, the cleanup zone is on the peninsula, the prep area is between the fridge and sink, etc. It's really wonderful.
� No air gap -- most modern dishwashers don't need them, so you don't have to have that extra unattractive "thing" on your countertop. Easy way around that if you need to pass code inspection is to drill the hole for air gap... pop it on for inspection and when they've gone take off the air gap and pop on your soap dispenser. Then put the loop in the hose at the back of your dishwasher...
� Advantium
� Miele dishwasher
� Test tube rack for spice storage
� Lay it out with tape to double check
� advice for setting up a temp kitchen
� Measure from 3 points wall to wall. Had I known this when we remodeled the entire house in 1990, I would now have the room to put in a pro-style range. As it is, I am exactly....1/4" short. Talk about frustrating! Our cabs are in great shape and I love them, but I'm stuck with the 29-7/8" width on the range.
� I really like this that I stole from Dmlove--- I love not having all those cords on my desk/countertop! So best advice from this forum... details make the difference! for now my phone sits over the hole
� pull down (rather than pull out or side spray) faucet
� Bluestar, after asking about the best 30 inch slide-in range
� batch-feed garbage disposals
� adding outlets
� Galaxy Tool Supply for our sink
� NeverMT
� Plugmold
� Wide / shallow cabinet for William Sonoma ultra-thin step stool.
� Airswitch on disposal. Never minded the wall switch, but now that I have a nice backsplash and an island
� Floodstop on icemaker and washing machine.
� I put power into the back of 4 drawers, so each family member has a place to charge the cell phone (or camcorder or whatever) out of sight.
� I also have a false panel behind a niche so that the power / wallwarts / phone wire / wireless access point is hidden. Only the phone sits out exposed. Similar to the idea above, but using depth.
� Don't pack your booze prior to remodeling (this is VERY important! VERY IMPORTANT!)
� Lacanche
� caulk on change of planes verses grout...look at the underside of your cabinets
� plugmold for under the ends of my island so I didn't have to cut outlets into my beautiful cabinets
� integrated drainboard cut into the countertop
� raising the countertop for my wall oven - which gave me a bonus "standing desk" for my laptop
� never thought I could get talked out of gas. So, that is the best advice so far
� I'm a single sink convert, based solely upon the reviews on this website.
� Dh and I made a "never mt" out of tubing bought for $0.46 at Lowes. It's really not very exciting, though. It's clear tubing (like the kind you see on aquariums) attached to the bottom of the soap dispenser thing, and then extends down through the lid and into the bottom of the bottle of soap. (We just drilled a hole in the top of the bottle and shoved the tubing down.) So low tech! The tubing is something like $.23/ foot and we bought 2 feet. Super easy.
� Landing space between appliances
� Aisle clearances
� Wait until its right - the right plan, the right time, the right appliances.
� instant hot water heater
� Getting a 36" range
� baking center
� online resources for sinks and faucets
� the importance of putting functionality first in all design decisions
� how to test granite for durability
� remote blower for hood fan
� single deep fireclay sink
� lots of great online resources for sinks, faucets, etc
� Never NEVER NEVER!!!! Leave your construction site to go on vacation ::scary music:: I MEAN NEVERRRRR!!!!!
� the best (and most costly) is don't settle. You have to live with this kitchen for quite some time. Don't settle! (Even if that means you scrapped the cabinets today, called of the GC for 8 weeks while you order new ones, and you can't live in your home so you have to find somewhere else to live for three months). And maybe Santa won't know where you live!!!
� Pegasus under-cabinet lighting here. Slim, good-looking, very energy-efficient, and reasonably priced.
� I was convinced of the superiority of the Miele cutlery rack
� do not rush..get a good plan in place. Pick what you love ..NOT what the designer loves
� Brizo Floriano/pulldowns in general
� xenon lighting
� Venting
� Tapmaster
� take pictures of everything while your walls are open. It is very helpful to have that photographic record of where electric, pipes, studs etc. actually are. Also, plan for where you want to install pot/wall racks, shelf brackets, etc.--and add extra framing in the walls before they get closed up.
� Get your floor plan right!
� The Franke Orca sink ... to die for.
� Inexpensive but quality Ticor sinks for laundry and prep.
� Plugmold giving me a crisp, clean and outlet-free backsplash.
� The personal, real life stories shared here gave me the confidence to push back at the stoneyard and insist on marble for my island. It pairs beautifully with the soapstone perimeter.
� Bertazzoni range
� White America Quartzite to go with SS
� LED undercabinet lights
� internet and ebay vendor recommendations
� Hancock & Moore leather furniture (from GW furniture forum)
� Microfiber cloths for cleaning SS and granite.
� we had scaled drawings, pictures, and sketches taped to walls and cabinets all over the kitchen. A sketch of the island layout, a drawing with dimensions for light fixtures and switches, a sketch showing the spacing of shelves, a picture of how we wanted plugmold installed - you name it, we had it on a piece of paper and taped on a wall. When we would discuss anything with the electrician, plumber, etc., usually we would show them a drawing or sketch so they would know exactly what we were looking for. Then we would post it on the wall in the kitchen. It may have been slightly annoying to those working there, but it was amazing how much it helped. A number of times after someone screwed something up I would just point to a drawing and they would immediately have to take the blame and offer to fix it. There was never any chance to claim that we never told them or that we had said something else. It was right there on the wall the whole time.
� undercounter light switch for undercounter lights
� tilt-out shoe storage cabinet
� Get hardwoods instead of laminate. Once I investigated I couldn't believe at how little difference in cost between the two (good decent laminate vs. hardwood)
� This is AWESOME! I now have a list of things I had never even heard of to check on...and I thought I was on top of things!
� posters here are willing to share their good and bad experiences so that newbies like me can have a smoother reno.
� Something that I'm slowly realizing as I continue to read the posts here is that, despite the best of planning, something (or things) likely will not go as planned.
� Buy appliances available locally (so service is available), from retailers who will actually stand behind the sale instead of shifting all blame and responsibility to the manufacturer - even when they shipped a defective product. Just finished reading a long thread about someone that bought from an internet retailer, and it was shocking to see the attitude of the retailer. Forget the pre sale promises and assurances from some of these disreputable internet companies who won't be there if you have a problem and just get them locally. No small percentage of savings is worth it if you end up with a defective product shipped and the retailer says it isn't his problem. If you must buy via internet, make sure you get in writing that the product will be shipped defect-free and if there's anything wrong with the unit at all - IMMEDIATELY contest the charge with your credit card company. Don't rely on promises that a minor (or major) problem will be promptly repaired by a service company.
� learning all the lingo was great. When the contractor asked if I wanted plugmold I didn't go "huh?" I think by being knowledgeable before talking to the contractor it helps a lot.
� Knobs vs. Pulls. There have been several discussions of knobs vs. pulls. Some comments:
� Knobs on base cabinets can catch on clothing (and rip sometimes).
� Cabinets/drawers w/pulls can usually be opened w/one finger...even the pinky finger.
� Susan Jablon glass tile. Everyone who comes in my house walks up to my backsplash and has to touch it. I had just about given up the idea of a glass tile backsplash before finding out about her site on this forum. The price of her tile, even with shipping, was about half of what I could have bought it for locally and it is gorgeous!
� No sockets/switches in backsplash (under cabinet plug strip)
� Toe kick on trash pop out BUT... ADD a second spring to add power to the pop (thank you for whoever mentioned this ingenious bit of info)
� Double layered cutlery drawer (secret drawer within a drawer)
� What to look for when choosing undercabinet lighting eg... reflection, spread of light, color of light, heat...
� Benefits of a large farmhouse sink
� Miele dishwasher � superb
� Thermador cooktop and all the controversy about the popup draft and how I could get away with not having one. THANK YOU!
� Miele warming drawer FANTASTIC and thank you for making me realize that it doesn't have to be on the floor under the oven!!!
� PLAN YOUR STORAGE SPACE. measure boxes, measure food processer, mixer, stack of plates etc. etc. then make a note of contents in the drawers or cupboards on your plans or diagrams or in your notes.
� Plug strip under center island.
� ARE NOT ALONE- PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT YOUR CD FRIDGE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU and it's OK to really take your time with your decisions
� Orca single sink
� Pot rack in upper cabinet (I think this idea was from loves2cookfor6??)
� Electrical outlet inside a drawer for a charging station
� filling in the gap between the fridge and the cupboard above it with some leftover filler and a piano hinge. Cambro...where did you see this idea? Just yesterday we discovered that we might have a significant gap b/w the top of the refrigerator & the bottom of the cabinet above. Our contractor is just going to use filler to hide the gap, but if we put it on hinges it would actually become usable space!
� knife drawer (I hated that block)
� gel stain
� Getting rid of my ugly phone jack and getting a phone that doesn't need one!
� How to get rid of the drip inside my oven door - with a hanger and a sock going up through the holes at the bottom of the door. Worked like a charm!
� Get a spine when talking to GC about his version vs. my version of cleaning up the jobsite each day (aka our home).
� Use masking tape and a measuring tape and make a mock up of where your new cabinets will go. This is a biggie!
� Dimmer switches! I put them on ALL of the new lighting, including the patio lights adjacent, and have not regretted it once.
� how great Silgranit sinks are to live with. Never even heard of one before GW.
� Buying Sources
o Ticor sinks: Ticor Sinks at Galaxy Tool Supply:
o Tapmaster�:
o Never-MT: Never-MT:
o Pop up Outlets: Popup Mocketts:
o Plugmold�/Power Strips:
o Angle Powerstrip:
� Our Vac Pan. Ours is hooked up to a wet/dry vac in the basement because we do not have central vac. The idea came from this forum and our electrician and contractor figured out how to make it happen.
� DIY on gel stain. Thanks Celticmoon and Projectsneverend.
� Soapstone, getting it, finding the right fabricator right here, and caring for it
� where to find a deal on saddle stools
� Kohler Vinnata
� Not to put my cooktop on my island.
� best advice I got was around my budget and how to make the hard decisions on what should stay in and what should go (that was from Beuhl).
� What is not that important to me and doesn't add functionality? [Candidate for elimination altogether]
� What can I do at a later date? [Candidate for deferring until a later date]
� What can't be done at a later date and I can't live without? [Candidate for keeping and doing now]
� This forum helped me see which terms are worth using, and which can be saved for later. This forum helped me get clearer communication going. Resistance could be expressed when I raised ideas; it all helped to refine the concept.
� This forum helped me justify personal innovations. This forum confirmed ideas.
� Tweaking and innovating. I tweaked everything in my kitchen along the way.
� I don't know if I would have a remodeled kitchen if it weren't for this forum. I would have still been looking at the dreadful old one wishing it was nice and not knowing how to get it nice. Even the ideas & photos of things I didn't want for me helped to define what I did want.
� I have to give credit to my carpenter, too. There was a time when his eyes rolled when I said, "but the people on the kitchen forum say......." But I had photos and conversations printed off to show him what I meant.
� Lisalists organized drawers where the dividers go from front to back or side to side so you don't have to nest objects-and you can fit so much stuff in. Easy, easy access. No nesting. Yay
� Layout, efficiency. This has to be the most important thing I've been learning here. What tasks do you perform, what zones will you organize them in, what items do you need close at hand in each zone, how does traffic between and through zones flow. etc.
� Styles, materials, looks. People here have great ''eyes'' for style and looks. My eyes have been opened to these looks, and I've learned the vocabulary to describe them.
� Specific ideas/features I learned about here that seem like they'll be useful: prep sinks, base cabinet drawers, counter top materials other than granite, true convection ovens, unfitted kitchens, under-counter refrigeration.
� Many things, one of which is using a 13-15" depth cabinet for inset cabinets, as 12 is not sufficient.
� Carefully placing all the appliances and storage thinking about what you use with what. For example, I moved the microwave to be next to the refrigerator because we use it mostly for reheating leftovers. I have fridge, prep sink, prep area, range, more prep area on one side and on the other I have prep area/ landing zone (across from fridge), main sink, prep area / dishwasher (across from range, but offset so both people can work) in the island.


clipped on: 02.06.2011 at 09:42 pm    last updated on: 02.06.2011 at 09:44 pm

RE: Is two-toned too much? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: boxerpups on 02.02.2011 at 12:51 pm in Kitchens Forum

I love two toned kitchens. I do not think it is trendy or
that it would be dated. At least not anytime soon, as this is
an effect that can lend itself to many different kitchen
decor styles. It can be country, contemporary, rustic,
organic, modern, urban, english, french, spanish revival...
It is timeless.
I agree with you that you can lighten up the space with
going lighter on the uppers.

Crabtree Kitchens

North East Cabinetry

Beverly Leigh Binns

Johnny Grey

Luxury Kitchens


messages from the mothership blog

Kitchen and Bath Ideas

Chocolate Cabs


Attic Magic

Detroit Home Magazine

Tommy Smythe


The Clean Lines kitchen

Bungalo Hutch

Gray Cabinets

Pulp Remodel


clipped on: 02.02.2011 at 07:08 pm    last updated on: 02.02.2011 at 07:08 pm

RE: Finished Kitchen: Circa 1840 Working Farmhouse, IKEA Budget R (Follow-Up #74)

posted by: brickmanhouse on 08.24.2010 at 01:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

Thanks again for all the compliments, and the questions! It's great that everyone's interested to hear how we did things.

Joann301, we used birch, and stained them with India Ink-- no particular brand, just a big old $6 bottle of artist's ink. We put it on with a sponge brush, let it dry for a few hours, and then coated with six coats of Waterlox (4 regular, 2 satin). The counters are BLACK, with no woodgrain or color showing through-- they almost look solid-surface, so it wouldn't matter what wood you chose.

Scrappy25, all the cabinet stacks are 60" high. The two that flank the fireplace are two 30" wall cabinets stacked on top of each other. The one next to the window is comprised of two 15"-30"15" stacks, set side by side. Our ceiling height ranges from 8'6" to 9' (old house-- nothing's square or level!), and our countertops are a couple inches higher than standard, so we just configured the ceiling molding to take up the excess space from cabinet top to ceiling.

We did raise the cabinets off the counter with molding so that the doors would swing easily, and also because we liked the look. It's stock white IKEA cabinet molding, that can be used for a lot of different purposes. It's about 3/4" thick, and we just laid it flat on the counter, and mitred it in the corners. The doors swing with no obstruction. We also ran the same molding as a matching detail on the top of the cabinets.

We did the ogee edges on the perimeter counters ourselves, with a router. Honestly, though, if I had it all to do over again, I wouldn't have bothered-- it was kind of a pain, and I think the counters would have looked just as good with a flat edge. They're almost a bit too fussy for my taste.

The cabinet and main sink are pulled forward (maybe 6 inches or so?). I saw a photo of someone here who'd done it, and it looked good, so we copied it! There's no real change in function that comes with having it pulled forward, and it was easy to do. IKEA cabinets come with feet, so it's just sitting there between the two dishwashers, supported by its own feet.

I will definitely try to get details of the undermount install with a drip rail. A lot of times, people don't recognize that the drip rail is the leading edge of a wood platform that the sink sits on-- it's not a piece of molding tacked on to the front of the cabinet. I've seen drip rails tacked on after the fact, and no matter how well they're done, they look kind of funny. It's one of those little details that really makes a difference.


clipped on: 01.21.2011 at 11:27 pm    last updated on: 01.21.2011 at 11:27 pm

RE: drawers dimensions for 30' countertops, is it worth it? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: shortyrobyn on 01.20.2011 at 04:27 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have 12 1/2" uppers on the 30" side of one wall of my kitchen down to the counter. Like this:


If you have a galley or modified galley - I don't think people notice the different depths on different sides of the kitchen (in fact - I had never even thought of it with regard to my kitchen until I read this thread). Robyn


clipped on: 01.20.2011 at 10:18 pm    last updated on: 01.20.2011 at 10:19 pm

RE: Should I mix cabinet colors? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: boxerpups on 01.07.2011 at 07:17 pm in Kitchens Forum

I love a mix of cabinets.
Here are a few more mixed...

GreenWood Kitchens

Quaoified Remodeler

Edwardian Cream


Kitchen Ideas




clipped on: 01.14.2011 at 03:38 pm    last updated on: 01.14.2011 at 03:38 pm