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RE: ATTN Farmers Daughter (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: frmrsdghtr on 09.28.2011 at 03:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

Sure... I can give you some details. You are referring to this post.

"This is clearly out of the norm, but we are almost finished with our $1000 DIY mini makeover in our kitchen (i know right? $1000? :D) and my hubby did a concrete overlay on our existing formica countertop. I helped him with the artistic part (staining) and for a couple of hundred bucks I got a brand new look. Love it!"

This was my kitchen before. (We aren't done yet! :)

current kitchen

My hubby is working so I can't give too many details because I'm not sure what is all involved. I do know this -
he had to clean and scuff the surface really well. It was a special mix of concrete. It was two layers, with drying time in between, he says he should have done three but I was extremely impatient and thought it looked fine :D. All the coloring is concrete stain. We used various things like feathers, sponges, brushes etc to get the look we wanted. The surface was grinded, sealed, and polished. The whole process took at least several days. He said he'd be much faster next time. :)

However, I would not consider this an average DIY project. My hubby has extensive experience with concrete - he has a concrete business (patios and curbing). He's considering doing countertops during the winter months. He's done just a couple of them but never an overlay. I get all his experiments :). Sealers and finishes have come a long way even in the last couple of years. It's the under-educated installers and old products that often give concrete a bad rap. Here's one he did in a basement bathroom/kitchen a few months ago:


Sorry this got so long! Hope that answers a few questions!


clipped on: 10.02.2011 at 05:45 pm    last updated on: 10.02.2011 at 05:45 pm

For Those with Frig Doors that Hit Wall -- Solution!!

posted by: houseful on 07.10.2011 at 03:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi there,

I know there is at least one other person here that had this problem. She had a paper bag wedged beside the door so it wouldn't hit her wall.

Anyway, my frig would have been fine if it wasn't for an unexpected framing issue. It's been a problem since we moved into the new kitchen in December. I have had the frig pulled forward to avoid it hitting the walls. So literally in the middle of the night last night, I had an idea. If any of you are familiar with the Jeep Wranglers, you may know that the doors will swing all the way open unless held in place by a strap. If figured I could attach these straps to the frig somehow.

The first thing I did this morning was scope out a place to attach the straps to the frig. As it turns out, the screws for the hinges were in just the right places to hold the straps. I had to cut them shorter, but they are working perfectly to stop my doors from opening too wide. Yes, I did make sure I could remove the drawers and shelves :) Now I can slide my frig in all the way!!

Hinge on frig box above bottom freezer


Screw on under side of door itself


Frig door closed and no sign of strap


We have our own Jeep accessories business, so I just grabbed a set from our garage. However, you can find this material on something as simple as a dog leash. The Jeep straps are a double layer, but this material is fairly stong in general.

HTH at least a few people!!


clipped on: 07.12.2011 at 11:43 am    last updated on: 07.12.2011 at 11:43 am

RE: Some of the best advice from the braintrust on this forum (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: buehl on 02.05.2011 at 03:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

I don't know if you've read the "Read Me" thread, but the "Best Advice" and other, similar, threads are linked in it. They're located in the "Miscellaneous Information"-->"Helpful Threads" topic.

Here's your list, reformatted for ease of reading (see "Curious about text in messages (adding bold, italics, etc.)", also in the "Miscellaneous Information"-->"Helpful Threads" topic.)


  • lay the kitchen out on the ground outside with all the measurements and walk around it to see if it felt right. I took my measurements and scraps of wood and laid them out in the various plans I had come up with.

  • check out the sound of the fan in the new ovens. I would have been pretty steamed to spend a bunch on a new range and have that sound come blaring out each time I used the oven.

  • putting Blumotion on the cabinet doors. This is my favorite feature in our kitchen and the cost was cheap to add these on after the cab install.

  • "zones" on this forum, and designed my kitchen around them, with a tremendous amount of help from my forum friends. In my old kitchen, the dishwasher opened across from the island (right into the backs of my legs). Now, the cleanup zone is on the peninsula, the prep area is between the fridge and sink, etc. It's really wonderful.

  • No air gap -- most modern dishwashers don't need them, so you don't have to have that extra unattractive "thing" on your countertop. Easy way around that if you need to pass code inspection is to drill the hole for air gap... pop it on for inspection and when they've gone take off the air gap and pop on your soap dispenser. Then put the loop in the hose at the back of your dishwasher...

  • Advantium

  • Miele dishwasher

  • Test tube rack for spice storage

  • Lay it out with tape to double check

  • advice for setting up a temp kitchen

  • Measure from 3 points wall to wall. Had I known this when we remodeled the entire house in 1990, I would now have the room to put in a pro-style range. As it is, I am exactly....1/4" short. Talk about frustrating! Our cabs are in great shape and I love them, but I'm stuck with the 29-7/8" width on the range.

  • I really like this that I stole from Dmlove--- I love not having all those cords on my desk/countertop! So best advice from this forum... details make the difference! for now my phone sits over the hole

  • pull down (rather than pull out or side spray) faucet

  • Bluestar, after asking about the best 30 inch slide-in range

  • batch-feed garbage disposals

  • adding outlets

  • Galaxy Tool Supply for our sink

  • Never MT

  • Plugmold

  • Wide/shallow cabinet for William Sonoma ultra-thin step stool.

  • Airswitch on disposal. Never minded the wall switch, but now that I have a nice backsplash and an island

  • Floodstop on icemaker and washing machine.

  • I put power into the back of 4 drawers, so each family member has a place to charge the cell phone (or camcorder or whatever) out of sight.

  • I also have a false panel behind a niche so that the power / wallwarts / phone wire / wireless access point is hidden. Only the phone sits out exposed. Similar to the idea above, but using depth.

  • Don't pack your booze prior to remodeling (this is VERY important! VERY IMPORTANT!)

  • Lacanche

  • caulk on change of planes verses grout...look at the underside of your cabinets

  • Plugmold for under the ends of my island so I didn't have to cut outlets into my beautiful cabinets

  • integrated drainboard cut into the countertop

  • raising the countertop for my wall oven - which gave me a bonus "standing desk" for my laptop

  • never thought I could get talked out of gas. So, that is the best advice so far

  • I'm a single sink convert, based solely upon the reviews on this website.

  • DH and I made a "never mt" out of tubing bought for $0.46 at Lowes. It's really not very exciting, though. It's clear tubing (like the kind you see on aquariums) attached to the bottom of the soap dispenser thing, and then extends down through the lid and into the bottom of the bottle of soap. (We just drilled a hole in the top of the bottle and shoved the tubing down.) So low tech! The tubing is something like $.23/ foot and we bought 2 feet. Super easy.

  • Landing space between appliances

  • Aisle clearances

  • Wait until its right - the right plan, the right time, the right appliances.

  • instant hot water heater

  • Getting a 36" range

  • baking center

  • online resources for sinks and faucets

  • the importance of putting functionality first in all design decisions

  • how to test granite for durability

  • remote blower for hood fan

  • single deep fireclay sink

  • lots of great online resources for sinks, faucets, etc

  • Never NEVER NEVER!!!! Leave your construction site to go on vacation ::scary music:: I MEAN NEVERRRRR!!!!!

  • the best (and most costly) is don't settle. You have to live with this kitchen for quite some time. Don't settle! (Even if that means you scrapped the cabinets today, called of the GC for 8 weeks while you order new ones, and you can't live in your home so you have to find somewhere else to live for three months). And maybe Santa won't know where you live!!!

  • Pegasus under-cabinet lighting here. Slim, good-looking, very energy-efficient, and reasonably priced.

  • I was convinced of the superiority of the Miele cutlery rack

  • do not rush..get a good plan in place. Pick what you love ..NOT what the designer loves

  • Brizo Floriano/pulldowns in general

  • xenon lighting

  • Venting

  • Tapmaster

  • take pictures of everything while your walls are open. It is very helpful to have that photographic record of where electric, pipes, studs etc. actually are. Also, plan for where you want to install pot/wall racks, shelf brackets, etc.--and add extra framing in the walls before they get closed up.

  • Get your floor plan right!

  • The Franke Orca sink ... to die for.

  • Inexpensive but quality Ticor sinks for laundry and prep.

  • Plugmold giving me a crisp, clean and outlet-free backsplash.

  • The personal, real life stories shared here gave me the confidence to push back at the stoneyard and insist on marble for my island. It pairs beautifully with the soapstone perimeter.

  • Bertazzoni range

  • White America Quartzite to go with SS

  • LED undercabinet lights

  • internet and eBay vendor recommendations

  • Hancock & Moore leather furniture (from GW furniture forum)

  • Microfiber cloths for cleaning SS and granite.

  • we had scaled drawings, pictures, and sketches taped to walls and cabinets all over the kitchen. A sketch of the island layout, a drawing with dimensions for light fixtures and switches, a sketch showing the spacing of shelves, a picture of how we wanted plugmold installed - you name it, we had it on a piece of paper and taped on a wall. When we would discuss anything with the electrician, plumber, etc., usually we would show them a drawing or sketch so they would know exactly what we were looking for. Then we would post it on the wall in the kitchen. It may have been slightly annoying to those working there, but it was amazing how much it helped. A number of times after someone screwed something up I would just point to a drawing and they would immediately have to take the blame and offer to fix it. There was never any chance to claim that we never told them or that we had said something else. It was right there on the wall the whole time.

  • undercounter light switch for undercounter lights

  • tilt-out shoe storage cabinet

  • Get hardwoods instead of laminate. Once I investigated I couldn't believe at how little difference in cost between the two (good decent laminate vs. hardwood)

  • This is AWESOME! I now have a list of things I had never even heard of to check on...and I thought I was on top of things!

  • posters here are willing to share their good and bad experiences so that newbies like me can have a smoother reno.

  • Something that I'm slowly realizing as I continue to read the posts here is that, despite the best of planning, something (or things) likely will not go as planned.

  • Buy appliances available locally (so service is available), from retailers who will actually stand behind the sale instead of shifting all blame and responsibility to the manufacturer - even when they shipped a defective product. Just finished reading a long thread about someone that bought from an internet retailer, and it was shocking to see the attitude of the retailer. Forget the pre sale promises and assurances from some of these disreputable internet companies who won't be there if you have a problem and just get them locally. No small percentage of savings is worth it if you end up with a defective product shipped and the retailer says it isn't his problem. If you must buy via internet, make sure you get in writing that the product will be shipped defect-free and if there's anything wrong with the unit at all - IMMEDIATELY contest the charge with your credit card company. Don't rely on promises that a minor (or major) problem will be promptly repaired by a service company.

  • learning all the lingo was great. When the contractor asked if I wanted plugmold I didn't go "huh?" I think by being knowledgeable before talking to the contractor it helps a lot.

  • Knobs vs. Pulls. There have been several discussions of knobs vs. pulls. Some comments:

  • Knobs on base cabinets can catch on clothing (and rip sometimes).

  • Cabinets/drawers w/pulls can usually be opened w/one finger...even the pinky finger.

  • Susan Jablon glass tile. Everyone who comes in my house walks up to my backsplash and has to touch it. I had just about given up the idea of a glass tile backsplash before finding out about her site on this forum. The price of her tile, even with shipping, was about half of what I could have bought it for locally and it is gorgeous!

  • No sockets/switches in backsplash (under cabinet plug strip)

  • Toe kick on trash pop out BUT... ADD a second spring to add power to the pop (thank you for whoever mentioned this ingenious bit of info)

  • Double layered cutlery drawer (secret drawer within a drawer)

  • What to look for when choosing undercabinet lighting eg... reflection, spread of light, color of light, heat...

  • Benefits of a large farmhouse sink

  • Miele dishwasher

  • superb

  • Thermador cooktop and all the controversy about the popup draft and how I could get away with not having one. THANK YOU!

  • Miele warming drawer FANTASTIC and thank you for making me realize that it doesn't have to be on the floor under the oven!!!

  • PLAN YOUR STORAGE SPACE. measure boxes, measure food processor, mixer, stack of plates etc. etc. then make a note of contents in the drawers or cupboards on your plans or diagrams or in your notes.

  • Plug strip under center island.

  • YOU ARE NOT ALONE- PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT YOUR CD FRIDGE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU and it's OK to really take your time with your decisions

  • Orca single sink

  • Pot rack in upper cabinet (I think this idea was from loves2cookfor6??)

  • Electrical outlet inside a drawer for a charging station

  • filling in the gap between the fridge and the cupboard above it with some leftover filler and a piano hinge. Cambro...where did you see this idea? Just yesterday we discovered that we might have a significant gap b/w the top of the refrigerator & the bottom of the cabinet above. Our contractor is just going to use filler to hide the gap, but if we put it on hinges it would actually become usable space!

  • knife drawer (I hated that block)

  • gel stain

  • Getting rid of my ugly phone jack and getting a phone that doesn't need one!

  • How to get rid of the drip inside my oven door - with a hanger and a sock going up through the holes at the bottom of the door. Worked like a charm!

  • Get a spine when talking to GC about his version vs. my version of cleaning up the jobsite each day (aka our home).

  • Use masking tape and a measuring tape and make a mock up of where your new cabinets will go. This is a biggie!

  • Dimmer switches! I put them on ALL of the new lighting, including the patio lights adjacent, and have not regretted it once.

  • how great Silgranit sinks are to live with. Never even heard of one before GW.

  • Buying Sources

    • Ticor sinks: Ticor Sinks at Galaxy Tool Supply:

    • Tapmaster:

    • Never-MT: Never-MT:

    • Pop up Outlets: Popup Mocketts:

    • Plugmold Power Strips:

    • Angle Powerstrip:

  • Our Vac Pan. Ours is hooked up to a wet/dry vac in the basement because we do not have central vac. The idea came from this forum and our electrician and contractor figured out how to make it happen.

  • DIY on gel stain. Thanks Celticmoon and Projectsneverend.

  • Soapstone, getting it, finding the right fabricator right here, and caring for it

  • where to find a deal on saddle stools

  • Kohler Vinnata

  • Not to put my cooktop on my island.

  • best advice I got was around my budget and how to make the hard decisions on what should stay in and what should go (that was from Buehl).

  • What is not that important to me and doesn't add functionality? [Candidate for elimination altogether]

  • What can I do at a later date? [Candidate for deferring until a later date]

  • What can't be done at a later date and I can't live without? [Candidate for keeping and doing now]

  • This forum helped me see which terms are worth using, and which can be saved for later. This forum helped me get clearer communication going. Resistance could be expressed when I raised ideas; it all helped to refine the concept.

  • This forum helped me justify personal innovations. This forum confirmed ideas.

  • Tweaking and innovating. I tweaked everything in my kitchen along the way.

  • I don't know if I would have a remodeled kitchen if it weren't for this forum. I would have still been looking at the dreadful old one wishing it was nice and not knowing how to get it nice. Even the ideas & photos of things I didn't want for me helped to define what I did want.

  • I have to give credit to my carpenter, too. There was a time when his eyes rolled when I said, "but the people on the kitchen forum say......." But I had photos and conversations printed off to show him what I meant.

  • Lisalists organized drawers where the dividers go from front to back or side to side so you don't have to nest objects-and you can fit so much stuff in. Easy, easy access. No nesting. Yay

  • Layout, efficiency. This has to be the most important thing I've been learning here. What tasks do you perform, what zones will you organize them in, what items do you need close at hand in each zone, how does traffic between and through zones flow. etc.

  • Styles, materials, looks. People here have great ''eyes'' for style and looks. My eyes have been opened to these looks, and I've learned the vocabulary to describe them.

  • Specific ideas/features I learned about here that seem like they'll be useful: prep sinks, base cabinet drawers, counter top materials other than granite, true convection ovens, unfitted kitchens, under-counter refrigeration.

  • Many things, one of which is using a 13-15" depth cabinet for inset cabinets, as 12 is not sufficient.

  • Carefully placing all the appliances and storage thinking about what you use with what. For example, I moved the microwave to be next to the refrigerator because we use it mostly for reheating leftovers. I have fridge, prep sink, prep area, range, more prep area on one side and on the other I have prep area/ landing zone (across from fridge), main sink, prep area / dishwasher (across from range, but offset so both people can work) in the island.

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!


clipped on: 02.07.2011 at 11:35 pm    last updated on: 02.07.2011 at 11:36 pm

Am I missing anything? meeting with electrician tomorrow

posted by: robinson622 on 08.17.2010 at 11:38 pm in Building a Home Forum

I've compiled a list of ideas from this forum over the years for electrical wants/needs. Forgive me if some don't make sense, they were copied directly from previous posts. Add any ideas you may have & let me know if there are any in the list that you find really unnecessary. Sorry for the repeats, there are quite a few.

-Attic fan & whole house fan
-outdoor speakers
-outdoor uplight landscaping lights;
-outlets placed in the floor of my family room so I could have a light placed behind the sofa on my sofa table;
-all four corners of the home with motion sensor lighting; connected to both back doors and master bedroom as well as front door sconces
-TV/Cable/internet in my kitchen; under cabinet tv
-low voltage-xenon under cabinet lighting wired to switch on dimmer
-wire for outlets above cabinet for rope lighting connected to a switch in kitchen
-a lot of 4 light switches/switch plates for almost all my rooms so I could add something!
-carbon monoxide sensors
-surround sound in rec room & playroom
-Place outlets in my mantle
-Wired for Cat 7 whole house audio.
-We knew in advance where we were planning to hang the plasma televisions, so we wired the wall where they were hang so there wouldn't be any visible wires.
-Outside outlets
-outlets inside bathroom cabinets such that hair dryers can be plugged in and placed inside a drawer rather than being draped over the countertops.
-'boogie-man' lights switch and switch to room lights by the bed
-outlets on either side of the front door for Christmas decorations wired to interior switch
-outlets in ceiling of porch above pillars for decorations
-switch for gas fireplace starter
-Outlets under roof eaves/soffits for Christmas lights wired to one switch inside foyer closet
-Outlets under inside of windows for 'candle' lights
(and place them on switches as well).
-Where are you going to put your Christmas tree?
Place an outlet in that corner controlled by a switch!
-Place an outlet at front of the side base for a lighted garland up the staircase.
-Place outlets on every exterior wall for landscape lighting or yard work.
-Several outlets in walk-in pantry
-Outlets on both ends of island
-Place an outlet adjacent to telephone jacks for cordless telephone base.
-GFI outlet under the sink for the instant hot water dispenser and garbage disposal
-If you are putting in a security system or intercom
(or are just pre-wiring), be sure to provide
electrical service to these areas.
-Light switch in hall, etc. for attic
-For furniture placed in the middle of a room,
place outlets and fixtures directly above or below exact location.
-Place outlets in convenient locations at bathroom vanity inside drawers for razor, electric toothbrush, hairdryer
-For a home office, fully consider computer, scanner, printer, answering machine, lamps, chargers, radios...need I say more?
-Do you need a plug-in for a laptop computer? Where?
-Where your TV is located, don't forget the DVD, VCR, CD...
-what else did I forget?...oh, yeah...satellite receiver? Dvd and all other peripherals in cabinet and wired to tv
-In a bedroom, don't underestimate the number of plug-ins at your bed stand: alarm clock, cordless phone, lamps. A quad outlet may be needed. Put outlets on opposite walls too in case room is changed around.
-Add outlets in exercise room closet for treadmill & elliptical
-Wire for flat screen tv in exercise room
-Remember that your dishwasher also needs an undersink (usually) plug, so you might want a 4 receptacle outlet -- of course, GFCI.
-dimmers on every entry point to kitchen, living, rec, foyer and mud
-Quad outlets in study for printer/wireless router/etc. and kitchen
-Outside closet light switches.
-I think running 3/4" or 1" PVC conduit for comm wiring is probably the smartest thing to do. That way, you're pretty much ready for anything that the future throws at us.
-Floor outlets in middle of family room
-Dedicated circuit? Outlet in master closet for ironing and outlet for charging cell phones
-Step lights on front porch, up stairs and in area under stairs
-put a motion sensor on the wall next to the door to the deck so we can carry stuff out there from the kitchen and the lights will go on automatically.
-lights for our deck along the top rail
-rope lights under bathroom vanities
-lighting for backyard
-outlets for cable and electric behind the tv
-sconces next to entry to study and family room, sconces in hallways - upstairs and on sides of mirrors in bathroom
-quad outlets rated for 20A in front storage area for air compressor, etc.
-wire for lighting in storage area
-interior switch to exterior outlets
-light in area under stairs
-run 2 inch pvc pipe from attic to first floor/crawl space for future wiring purposes
-bedside lamps wired to switch
-outlet and gfci outlet for future bar area near kitchen
-make sure all outdoor lights arent only on one switch so they can also be turned on individually instead of lighting up the entire outside when not necessary
-outlets in storage area set at 4ft height
-switch for lights above island on the island

My kids have closets with bifold I need a light in those closets?

Rope lights under vanity? How do you feel about them? Just for the kids' bathroom if at all?
I know I'll forget something, but I'm waaaaay better off than I would have been if I didn't have GW.

Thanks in advance!


clipped on: 02.07.2011 at 12:06 pm    last updated on: 02.07.2011 at 12:28 pm

RE: who uses the bathroom forum? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: laxsupermom on 10.27.2010 at 08:35 am in Kitchens Forum

Is this the one?
nosambos posted it in this thread.


Subway tile offset by 1/3 instead of 1/2
Interesting layout on the ceiling header and pattern on the ceiling itself.
clipped on: 10.28.2010 at 08:48 pm    last updated on: 02.07.2011 at 12:10 pm

RE: wedi for steam shower (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: mongoct on 07.03.2010 at 02:05 pm in Bathrooms Forum

Either is fine. Both are excellent for this application, and in a steam shower I'll use them on all six sides (walls, floor, ceiling) of the steam shower cube.

Personally I use Kerdi due to the limited availability of Wedi in my area. I've been using Kerdi for over 10 years with no problems.

If you go with Kerdi I recommend going over cement board (not fiber-cement, but Durock or Wonderboard). The cement board can be hung just like in a "regular" shower, but the seams do not have to be thinsetted and mesh taped as the Kerdi will serve that function.

If your guy goes with Wedi, then he has to pay specific attention to the fasteners and seams, every penetration through the Wedi board has to be detailed. It's not as onerous as it sounds, it's just that details need to be paid attention to.

For a steam shower you won't want a ceiling vent inside the shower unless it is a positively dampered vent. You don't want steam entering the fan housing or going up into the duct where it will cool, condense, and drip back down into the stem shower.

Lights should be gasketed vapor-proof lights.

All plumbing penetrations through the wall should be sealed to the Kerdi or Wedi membrane. Steam showers have a strong vapor drive, they will push moisture vapor through any crack or crevice that is not detailed. The goal is to keep moisture within the shower and out of the framing cavities.

The ceiling should be sloped a minimum or 2" per foot.

I recommend porcelain or ceramic tiles in a steam shower over natural stone tiles in a steam shower due to vapor drive, the porosity of natural stone, and the free minerals within some natural stones.

The floor will be tiled? Wedi has their own sloped floor tray, if you can use one to conform to your desired shower size that's one way to go. Kerdi has a similar manufactured presloped tray.

Since most showers I do are one-off and custom sized, with Kerdi I build my floor slope from deck mud, Kerdi goes over the sloped mud, and tiles goes on the Kerdi. Easy to do.

There is a thread with a Kerdi installation, though it's not a steam shower.

Another option would be to cement board the shower cube, then thinset and tape the seams, and then use a trowel/roll/paint on membrane over the cement board. Most membranes in that family are waterproof but not vaporproof. You need both. I'm fairly certain that Ultraset is a vaporproof vapor barrier, but your tile guy should look into that.


clipped on: 01.18.2011 at 11:55 am    last updated on: 01.18.2011 at 11:57 am

Does anyone have zinc counters?

posted by: raenjapan on 11.29.2010 at 12:34 pm in Kitchens Forum

Does anyone have zinc counters in their kitchen? I'm seriously considering replacing our formica with zinc. It would fit with the style of the house, it would be cheap, and I know we can DIY. On Rotometals,com, it looks like the materials would be around $4-500 for our kitchen, which is great.

But, I can't find much about this material, particularly how it's going to patina. I want patina, but can't find much in the way of photos.

Anyway, if you've got any experience with this metal, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks!


clipped on: 11.30.2010 at 01:17 pm    last updated on: 11.30.2010 at 01:17 pm

RE: Budget Backsplash -- Where can I skimp/still have it look dec (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: andrea345 on 11.21.2010 at 01:38 pm in Kitchens Forum

I used a combination. I laid down copper leaf on a primed 1x4 (raw lumber), then sealed with a heavy duty polyurethane. My walls were painted & then I did a geometric copper leaf design on top. Polyurethaned the wall. When that was dry, I siliconed in the coppered lumber. Cleans up great!

Behind my range is a piece of fired copper. We wanted E-Z to clean. We finished in 2005 & it's all holding up just wonderfully!

Here is a link that might be useful: backsplashes


clipped on: 11.24.2010 at 07:02 pm    last updated on: 11.24.2010 at 07:02 pm

RE: colors gone wild! (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: jterrilynn on 09.20.2010 at 10:21 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi, I know this style of kitchen & tile may not be for you but just wanted to show that you can get all the color you want in a backsplash. Lets say you picked a natural cherry finish for your cabinetry in a door style you loved and used the dark countertop you picked and then added a colorful backsplash with reds and pumkin...that would be pretty. You can also buy these colors in a washable wallpaper which is pretty cool. I Love the warm colors too but it can get tricky. Best of luck on your picks!¤t=0307_sunset_redkitchen_l.jpg" target="_blank">Photobucket


Note the inset shelf/niche with contrasting back color.
Interesting example of how a colorful backsplash livens up a plain, neutral kitchen.
clipped on: 10.29.2010 at 10:01 pm    last updated on: 10.29.2010 at 10:03 pm

Finished Kitchen: Circa 1840 Working Farmhouse, IKEA Budget Reno

posted by: brickmanhouse on 08.19.2010 at 01:46 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi all,

Well, we've finally got a (mostly) finished kitchen! This kitchen's been in the planning stages for 8 years and I've been in and out of this forum for just about that long-- wow, time flies! Whether I've posted or just lurked, the information I've gotten here has been INVALUABLE.

I can unequivocally say that my kitchen would not look anything like what it does without this Forum, and for that I offer my profound gratitude-- there is, quite literally, no way I could have done it without all of you, past and present.

So, here are the photos of the finished result:

From 2010-0818

From 2010-0818

From 2010-0818

From 2010-0818

From 2010-0818

From 2010-0818

From 2010-0818

For the entire album with detailed photos, just click on the link below any of the photos above!

Here are the details:

Cabinetry: IKEA Lidingo White (with glass uppers) for the perimeter, Tidaholm Brown/Black for the island
Island Knobs & Pulls: Anne at Home Farm Collection and Lewis Dolin Glass Cup Pulls (from
Perimeter Knobs and Pulls: Anne at Home Horse Collection, generic polished chrome knobs, cup pulls, and bar pulls (from
Wall Paint: BM Revere Pewter
Trim, Hood, and Fireplace Paint: Valspar Bright White (from Lowe�s)
Perimeter Counters: IKEA Butcher Block, stained Black with India Ink and sealed with Waterlox
Island Counter: IKEA Butcher Block, sealed with Watco food safe butcher block sealer
Main Sink: Whitehaus 36" farm sink (from
Island Sink: IKEA single Domsjo, undermounted instead of the usual overmount installation
Faucets: IKEA Hjuvik
Refrigerator: Because we grow a lot of what we eat (so we don't need to store much) and have a large fridge in an adjacent laundry room, we chose a generic small undercounter fridge (Home Depot, off the shelf)
Wine chiller: Sunbeam (Home Depot, off the shelf)
Dishwashers: Kenmore and Hotpoint, both existing and 5-7 years old
Microwaves: 8 year old Kenmores
Island Oven: IKEA Datid 30"
Hood: ProLine 36" range hood (from eBay)
Range: IKEA Praktfull Pro A50
Backsplash Behind Range: Handthrown Williamsburg brick (local brickyard, left over from another project)
Flooring: Lumber Liquidators, Hand Scraped Teak
Island and Sink Pendants: IKEA Ottava
Cabinet lights: IKEA Grundtal single puck lights
Chandelier over the Table: Progress lighting, black 5-light chandelier (Home Depot, off the shelf)
Fireplace: Style Selections 36" Vent Free LP fireplace (Lowe�s, off the shelf)

A few notes about the remodel, just to hit some discussion points I see come up a lot in this Forum:

Our kitchen lives in a big old 1840 farmhouse, which has been part of a working farm since the day it was built. Originally it was soybeans, but now it's part of a gentleman's farm (horses, heritage gardens and poultry), so everything has to be hard wearing and practical. It needs to stand up to heavy traffic, mud, hay, tools, and the occasional chicken (though usually when they wander in, they don't go much further than the family room, because they like the television). That definitely informed our choices for surfaces-- they needed to be hard cleanable, and ultimately easily refinished or replaced down the line.

Because the entire house already has strong architectural elements (huge moldings and built-ins), we worked within the style we already had-- all the kitchen moldings, mantels, panels and cabinets match (or are closely styled after) what already exists in the house. We definitely didn't do a period kitchen (we wanted a 2010 layout with all the conveniences), but we wanted the kitchen to look like it belonged in the house.

The big thing for us was budget-- believe it or not, the entire kitchen was done for UNDER $20K. Four big things contributed to that:

1/ We DIY'ed the ENTIRE project, start to finish. The only thing we hired out was the gas line install for the fireplace and range, because state law requires it. Other than that, all planning, demo, sourcing, and construction was on us. Might be why it took us 8 years. . .

2/ We reused what we could, and scrounged a lot, especially construction materials (which could have been buckets of money, considering all the custom work we did in the space), and kept what appliances we could. It was also a great way to be environmentally responsible on a project that, let's face it, has a lot of non-necessities involved.

3/ IKEA, IKEA, IKEA. If you're anywhere reasonably close to an IKEA, and you're on anything approaching a budget, go check it out. The cabinet quality for the price can't be beat (except for a few pockets of custom cabinet makers), and there are a lot of great accessories, appliances, lighting and other things to be had for a terrific price. As always, you have to pick and choose your items for quality and value, but at least in our experience, it is definitely there to be had for the buyer with a good eye.

4/ We didn't go for major appliance upgrades. Our whole family LOVES to cook (and eat!), and we wanted a great looking, functional space to do it all in, but we just weren't convinced that we needed more than the basics right now. If we want to upgrade down the line, it's easy enough to do, but right now our Wolf budget is standing in our barn eating hay, and our LaCanche budget is steered towards this Show Hunter prospect I have my eye on . . .

So there's our formula for a great kitchen that works for us considering the (kind of odd!) parameters we had. Hope you all can take at least something useful away from our experience.

I've submitted the kitchen to the FKB, and I'll answer whatever questions you've got. . .

Thanks again, everyone!


Cabinetry plan for butler's pantry
clipped on: 10.19.2010 at 01:04 pm    last updated on: 10.19.2010 at 01:09 pm

RE: Painted wall treatment for Coastal Kitchen (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: amylucey on 10.18.2010 at 03:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

montanapacnw: Thanks for your comments! I haven't checked this post in a while, so thanks for redirecting me...

Okay. The paint color. (You're so right! Greys are HARD and soooo different.) We went with Revere Pewter for our wall color in the kitchen and it looks gorgeous with the painted wall. (Just an FYI).

As far as the grey I used. I have the paint can here (my contractor handed me a paint can he had in his shop that was grey and I went with it, so I can't say I picked it myself).

Here's the details on the can:

Sherman Williams
7667 Zircon

BAC Colorant: 02 32 64 128
B1-Black: - 13 1 -
R2- Maroon: - - 1 1
Y3- Deep Gold: - 3 - 1

(Eggshell interior latex)

Hope this helps. Its actually a bluish/grey at glance. The wood underneath plays a part. Ours was light brown and dark brown in various spots.

Hint: To make it look authentic wipe some of the boards harder than others - this way it looks like some bleached out a little more than others.

Let me know how it goes. It's really so easy...
Good luck!


Water down by one third
clipped on: 10.19.2010 at 12:46 pm    last updated on: 10.19.2010 at 12:47 pm

RE: Dark Numerar Countertop from IKEA (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: reshal on 08.11.2009 at 12:10 pm in Kitchens Forum

Thank you again for the compliments! I just checked the can and the stain is by ML Campbell, Woodsong II. The stain is oil based. The color is a custom mix my cabinet maker and I came up with for my cabinets. It's basically cherry stain with a lot of brown mixed in, which we now call "Browner Cherry" because I kept asking him to add more brown.

My husband is an experienced wood worker and a great finish carpenter, but doesn't do it for a living. He told me he used a 1/2" round over bit on the first pass on the edge and then an Ogee router bit for the second pass. I can get the model number of the bits if anyone needs them after he gets home from work. The sink hole was harder and took some time to get right.
To finish the countertops I first sealed them with Benite. Then I applied two coats of stain, the first with a brush that turned out all blotchy and then I flooded the surface with stain and hand wiped with a rag. I attempted to "streak" the surface so the wood would look more like the higher end wood countertops I've seen. I sort of faux finished them, I guess.

Then I did three coats of Waterlox original with a foam brush. They looked amazing, just way too shiny for my taste. I lightly sanded in between coats.

Then the nightmare began. I did a coat of Waterlox Satin with a foam brush. The countertop was splotchy and there were bumps in it. I posted on GW about my troubles. I finally got the surface right after another two coats of Satin, another coat of Original and then a two more coats of Satin. The final two coats were applied with a lambswood applicator. So there are a grand total of 10 coats of Waterlox on the counters. They feel great and don't look plastic-y close up.

Here are some photos of the sink hole (before and after) and another photo of the countertop that is installed.






As for seams, each countertop is 6 feet long which a stock size Numerar, so there aren't any seams. I have these countertops for my laundry room also that form an "L". I'm not sure how my husband will handle the seam in there, probably biscuit join and glue them so the seam will be tight.

Thanks again for the nice responses!


Used two router bits: roundover then ogee
clipped on: 09.15.2010 at 08:24 am    last updated on: 09.15.2010 at 08:25 am

Marin's Kitchen (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: doonie on 08.22.2010 at 05:12 pm in Kitchens Forum

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


Mairin's kitchen
clipped on: 09.14.2010 at 06:21 pm    last updated on: 09.14.2010 at 06:22 pm

98.627% Finished Kitchen - Transitional White Inset w/ glass til

posted by: theanimala on 03.24.2010 at 08:27 pm in Kitchens Forum

After reading this site daily for 6 months now and getting tons of great advice it's time for us to post our finished kitchen. In keeping with the style of the house we needed to go more modern than traditional, but we didn't want something too contemporary. Also, we couldn't decide on painted or stained cabinets, so we decided to do both by painting the perimeter while having the island stained.
Although we moved no walls, it ended up being a bigger project then we expected as the old tile floor went through our foyer, powder room and laundry room. Also didn't have correct sub-flooring, and we wanted to move some of the appliances around, etc. The reason the it is only 98.627% completed, is we still have 1.373% left to do, such as glass shelves in glass front doors so in cabinet lighting can shine all the way through, etc.


Cabinets - Inset Shiloh Homestead painted MB Softwhite, Island Maple stained Espresso
Flooring - Tile Fashion Coffee 12 x 24
Countertops - Caesarstone Raven, Ceasarstone Misty Carrera - Mitred Edge
Main Sink - Franke 33" SS Apron - FHX710-33S
Main Faucet - Generic Costco Brand
Prep Sink - Elkay - ELU1618
Prep Faucet - Danze Como Pulldown
Refrigerator - JennAir CD FD - JFC2089HES
Ovens - Electrolux - EW30EW65GS
Warming Drawer - Electrolux - EW30WD55GS
Microwave - Electrolux - EL27MO45GS
Cooktop - DCS 36" Drop-in - CTD-365
Hood - Bosch - DKE9365AUC
Beverage Center - GE Monogram - ZDBC240NBS
Dishwasher - Bosch
Backsplash - White Glass subway tile from
Backsplash - Stainless Steel 1x2 tiles
Pulls - TopKnobs - Princetonian
Paint - BM 1542 Himalayan Trek






Sink Area:







Island - Backside:


Pantry Area - Closed:


Pantry - Open:


Lazy Suzan - Corner Pullout:


A big thank you to everyone who gave such great advice over the past few months. If anyone has any questions on what we like /dislike please let us know.


clipped on: 09.14.2010 at 06:20 pm    last updated on: 09.14.2010 at 06:20 pm

RE: I don't like our new master bath (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: joannaca on 04.12.2010 at 10:39 am in Bathrooms Forum

Thanks for all the suggestions and comforting words. I don't know why the tile stops where it does. He did the same thing in the basement shower. That one is plain old cheap 4x4 white tile with green glass tile accent and we love it! He used more glass tile there. (photo below)
Maybe if he could have done something similar in the master, it would have looked better.

Since we're doing a whole house remodel I didn't have time to micromanage every detail, so I just gave him the tile, he suggested a pattern, and we went with it. When I came back, this is how it looked.

Here is a photo of the vanity. It doesn't do it justice, as the counter top is really a very nice quartz with little gray and mirror flecks. But it's very white, compared to the rest of the room. Btw, the color of the walls IS the color we chose. It's Ellen Kennon's Gustavian Grey. It has a very pale blue cast, but looks white to me, probably because we don't have light fixtures in yet. Maybe we need a little more color than that.


Downstairs shower:


tile pattern
clipped on: 09.14.2010 at 06:17 pm    last updated on: 09.14.2010 at 06:17 pm

Thank you for my kitchen! (Long, lots of pics)

posted by: jsweenc on 07.05.2010 at 02:36 pm in Kitchens Forum

Start: Jan. 19, 2010
Finish: July 5, 2010

It is not an exaggeration to say that this kitchen is a result of GWs collective wisdom. I did not ask that many questions but I gleaned untold amounts of information from searches and reading and participating in others threads and revisiting the FKB every time I had a new detail to conquer.

There are so many of you who have a good eye for the big picture as well as details when looking at layouts; and even more impressive and appreciated is that you take the time to walk each person through with honest, detailed feedback and encouragement. Thank you for looking so consistently at all the posts requesting help. rhome and buehl come to mind immediately -- I know there are others who do that as well and I am sorry for not remembering everyone to acknowledge.

Many others have kitchens posted to the FKB that gave me great inspiration, answers to questions and solutions to problems. You were a huge help and didn't know it, and I wish I could list every single one of you! (Many of these were not white shaker inset kitchens.)

Special thanks to jrueter for counter help and encouragement, among other things -- aside from the layout itself, that was one of my biggest challenges.

It feels good to be finished, and now I hope I can start to give back a fraction of what I received. Thank you to everyone!

DW - Bosch
Like - Gets dishes clean
Dont like - Plastics are wet in am unless I leave the door ajar; door catch is already broken, door won't stay halfway open (should be covered under warranty)
Hood - VAH PRH18, 36", 350 cfm (wish I had gotten more, salesman talked us out of it)
Fridge - Whirlpool Gold french door
Range - Electrolux Induction slide-in; still learning it but love it so far
MW - Sharp

Tar River Custom Cabinets, Creedmoor, NC, white inset with Blum glides
Like - Looks, the 30" and 36" drawer bases
Dont like - Not as much useable space with inset; drawer glides dont all work smoothly

Counters -
Leathered Impala Black, 3 cm, 3" radius corners, 1" radius corners, no radius
Love - Easy to keep clean, dont show fingerprints, just the color I was looking for in a matte finish (didnt want shiny)
Dont like - sink reveal is not uniform, slightly negative in most places (I asked for flush, was told that slope of sink prevented exact flush but in one area its actually positive, one its flush, so sink is not set in perfectly; not being picky and preferring to have it finished, I am leaving it alone)
Supplier - Daltile
Fabricator - The Countertop Factory, Raleigh NC

Wood counter - Walnut edge grain, classical edge minus one bead from; finished for non-food use

Sinks - Blanco Silgranit in Anthracite ordered from
Clean up - BlancoDiamond Super Single (drop in) 33"
Prep - BlancoPrecis Large (undermount) 24"
Like - Looks, size, location, maintenance
Faucets - Delta Leland 978 (Main) 9978 (Prep) (ordered from
Like - Looks, function, ease of use

Hardware - Amerock
Like - Looks, feel
Dont like - One set of cup pulls, on my one deep drawer, were not placed well but it was too late by the time I saw it

Pendants - Edison by Hudson Valley, with glass # D12 (~$600 total for 3 pendants)
Like - Looks, adjustable length
Tracks - WAC

Paint - Timberlake Painting, Mickey Smith
Kitchen walls - BM Quiet Moments (LR walls @ 50% formula of QM)
Laundry walls - Valspar Safari Beige
Garage hall walls - Valspar Oatbran (on same strip as Safari Beige)
Trim, ceiling, etc - White gloss (dont know color, just agreed with painter to do white)

Floors - red oak, refinished with oil-based poly satin finish

Windows - Monarch double casement

Backsplash - Adex Neri White 3x6 beveled subway tiles, 1/2 round liners

Trash pullout, tall pan divider

Sweeby Test
warm or cool, tranquil and soothing or energetic and vibrant? calm, happy, dramatic?
Cool, tranquil, soothing, calm

cozy or spacious? light and bright or dark and rich?
Open, spacious, light, bright

subtle tone-on-tone, boldly colorful, textured?, woody or painted?
Simple, unobtrusive, painted (maybe not exactly subtle but not bold, overstated colors)

modern, traditional, vintage, rustic, artsy, retro, Old World, Arts & Crafts, Tuscan?
Backdrop rather than focal point, no particular theme, time period or style to stand out (vintage would be closest but not overtly so)

elegant, casual? sleekly simple, elaborately detailed, or somewhere in between?
Casual, simple (not sleek), understated touches of elegance, but not be intimidating

pristine or weathered, professional or homey?
Simple, summer cottage; Clean (pristine?), homey

whimsical, sophisticated, accessible, romantic? masculine or feminine?
Accessible, maybe a touch of whimsy and zing (in decorative elements); Neither overly masculine nor feminine (functional, clean straight lines for ease of construction, with a few rounded edges to soften)

How much zing? and where?
Quiet, unobtrusive but a breath of fresh air so when people walk in, invites but does not distract from fellowship

I've been saying "I really like my kitchen". DH was surprised that I wasn't saying "I love my kitchen". That's because it wasn't truly finished and clean until today when we got everything hung and most everything put away (still a few very minor things to do). So as of today, I can say "I LOVE my kitchen". I also LOVE my utility room just as much!

We are not completely finished with the house; we plan to add to the front to expand the LR and add a MBR. With the kitchen construction, we were all crammed into a small room together during the day, but with the addition, we have a refuge with our new kitchen.

View 1
Photobucket Photobucket
Still need a piece of molding on either end to cover up the holes made to install Plugmold, which I couldn't stand and had replaced with Sillites

View 2

View 3

View 4


Mudroom Photobucket

Baskets - World Market
Bag - Belvah, custom embroidered by
Shelf - salvaged from 200 yo house DH bought for office
Hooks - Pier 1 Imports

Pantry Photobucket
Countertop and pullout shelves recycled from previous kitchen
Upper shelves built by carpenter

Laundry from kitchen


Laundry toward kitchen


Communication center and laundry shelving
4" shelves built by carpenter
Upper box shelves - Pottery Barn Outlet
Calendars, etc -
Fabric boxes - World Market, Target

Here is a link that might be useful: Photobucket link


-double doors to pantry
-laundry set up
clipped on: 09.14.2010 at 06:12 pm    last updated on: 09.14.2010 at 06:13 pm

RE: Black Granite with Walnut Cabinets?? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: sparklekitty on 09.13.2010 at 11:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

Beachbum - Just depends on the look you are going for. One of my favorite combos is walnut with a white marble (like calacatta) but I am a big fan of measured contrast. I have a friend who just did cherry with a dark gray quartz, but cherry has a very red tone and walnut (very beautiful) has a brown to ash or gray tone to me.) I guess the black stone would pick up the dark grain in the wood.

So after all that noodling above, I did a search on google and found this image. It is beautiful.

Here they have the very light floors and a nice color on thew wall to accent. Note - there is no back splash. Not sure how I would feel with a lighter backsplash - that could be come the center of attention versus the wood, which I think is the designers goal. With white counters, that is more of the highlight. I love walnut.

And now here is the walnut, dark counters and light backsplash (I think it is marble slab.) Like it less than the one above - not necessarily because of the BS but because I think the green paint above really pulled it all together. Maybe this one just needs to be lived in (looks a bit sterile, hard to do with wood :)

Hope all this noodling helps. Bottom line is you need to do what you want - look at these two photos - do you like them? Search google for walnut with marble (just an easy way to see a light counter) do you prefer that look?


clipped on: 09.14.2010 at 06:07 pm    last updated on: 09.14.2010 at 06:08 pm

I'm thankful for...a finished kitchen!!!!

posted by: traci29 on 11.29.2009 at 03:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

Wow, I can't believe I'm FINALLY posting a finished kitchen! :) It's actually about 99% finished since I haven't totally organized everything (but that's hidden - haha) and don't have window treatments, etc. (not sure if I'm going to put up blinds), but I'm just glad to have gotten to this point!!

Thanks to everyone on this forum for all the great advice and for simply listening to my vents at times! I've met such great people through here and hope to keep in touch! My only complaint is that while waiting for my kitchen to finally be done, I've had to endure looking at too many gorgeous finished kitchens and seeing things "I should have done" - haha :)

So...let's see, the process began in Sept 2008 (yep, you read that correctly!) and it's now almost 2010 - yikes, that looks even worse in print! :) The kitchen was part of a 1000 sq. ft. addition that included a master suite / kitchenette on the second level. I could go on and on about what went wrong (might be much easier to say what went right!), but I won't - it's too depressing :) The second floor is *almost* finished but the outside is supposed to have 2 decks and a balcony off the master, none of which have even begun, so who knows when everything will be complete. I'm just VERY thankful that at least the inside is approaching the point where I hopefully will not be dealing with anyone coming in and out and getting things dirty as soon as I clean! Well, other than my husband and dog of course - they do a good job of dirtying up the house all by themselves - haha!

I've tried to list the major details, since I know everyone on GW usually wants to see those, but if I've forgotten something or you have a question, feel free to ask :) So without further ado, here are the photos!

Here's the old kitchen "before":

And here's the old kitchen "after":

Sorry, couldn't resist - that really is the old kitchen, since the current kitchen is an entirely new addition to the house - so here it is:

With island pendants and plinth lights on:

An unstocked pantry :) It's actually a walk-in but hard to tell from photo

- Perimeter: Cambrian Black antique finish
- Island: Persian Pearl antique finish
- Crackle glass shelf on island: Custom by Advanced Glass Designs, Atlanta, GA
- Tile: Calcatta Gold 3 x 6 subway tile, honed, (less than $7/sq. ft.!!)
- Grout: Silver Grey StarQuartz QuartzLock
- Range: 48" gas American Range, 6 burners with grill
- Vent hood: Vent-a-Hood
- Dishwasher: LG (already had)
- Refrigerator: SubZero 48" (already had - just painted the panels to match the cabinets rather than getting stainless steel))
- Wine fridge: Vinotemp? (not sure, but I think this is the brand - we got it at Costco)
- Main sink: Lansen double bowl stainless steel 15 gauge
- Island sink: Ticor stainless steel 18 gauge
- Faucet, main sink: Industrial polished chrome pull-out faucet (no brand?!) - Ebay
- Faucet, island sink: Delta, polished chrome
Red oak, ebony stain (refinished all existing hardwood throughout house to match), satin finish poly
Walls (what little paint can be seen): SW Argos
Bar stools: "Modern Silver Bar Stool"
- Island pendants: Local Atlanta lighting designer - pendants are called "Droplet"
- Sink pendants: Mercury Glass Pendants from
- Island toekick lighting: Small LED plinth lights (more common in UK)
Cabinets (custom by local Atlanta cabinet maker):
- Perimeter: Shaker style maple wood, SW ??? (supposed to be Snowbound, but isn't - long story, but basically we found out months after that the paint isn't Snowbound, so have no idea what it actually is!)
- Island: Shaker style cherry wood, custom stain
Cabinet Hardware:
- European style long bar pulls, stainless steel
- Knobs: Hickory Hardware, stainless steel, Euro Contemporary 1.5 inches


clipped on: 08.02.2010 at 08:24 pm    last updated on: 08.02.2010 at 08:24 pm

Hiding the Refrigerator Carcass

posted by: cocaty on 06.27.2009 at 12:00 am in Kitchens Forum

In order to get the built in look with a Samsung 25 cu' french door refrigerator, the cabinets have to be built out to 31" in order to allow for ventilation in the back. This is what my design currently calls for. The top cabinet is built out and the uppers and lowers on the side of the refrigerator are also deeper than standard. I'm concerned that 31" is quite a bit. Buehl is a big proponent of this look but recently suggested someone do it even if it meant moving the cabinets out as far as 26". Clearly I'm 5" beyond that. And clearly I'm concerned! Any thoughts? Thanks.


clipped on: 08.02.2010 at 08:07 pm    last updated on: 08.02.2010 at 08:07 pm