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RE: Bosch Dishwasher Feedback & Concerns (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: mindstorm on 09.27.2008 at 09:45 am in Appliances Forum

Data is what you've been getting above before your second post. Homeowners telling you that they use jetdry and their plastics come out damp (eandhl & paddy) to somewhat damp (lightly starched and then me). Effiemyrtle added her level on satisfaction on the dry plastics debate after your post.
To this extent, this is all the data you're going to get in an anonymous, blind, unregulated forum, consequently, I still don't understand what you're hoping to get from your post. There are so many variables that govern drying performance - water conditions, jet-dry setting being just a couple of the variables.

I will tell you that the majority of people who have reported being delighted with their european DWs are that way because they are taken with the fantastic WASHING performance as even quite messy dishes come out excellently clean. The quiet while doing so is the other big appeal. These are the two distinguishing characteristics. You're just not going to find people euphoric about the DWs drying results - we are all generally more than satisfied with that but we are thrilled with how reliably clean the DW turns up.

Allow me to summarize what has been reported on this site on DWs:
Most folks do use jetdry.
Most folks for whom bone dry is a preference purchase domestic DW that does have a heated dry.
Most folks with a bosch/miele/asko dw deal with the water that's left and don't find it too cumbersome.
Some people really hate the dishwashers that they have bought (including the domestics GE, KA, WP etc.).
;-)

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clipped on: 10.16.2008 at 09:51 am    last updated on: 10.16.2008 at 09:51 am

RE: Bosch Dishwasher Feedback & Concerns (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: lightlystarched on 09.25.2008 at 02:20 pm in Appliances Forum

I have a Bosch. It is not stainless, and was around $700-800, so not top-of-the-line. I don't understand the non-heated drying issue??? My contractor when installing it told me I wouldn't like the Bosch because it doesn't have a heated dry, but when the cycle is finished and I go to unload the dishwasher, the dishes are HOT. I have to leave the door open and let them cool a bit.

I wash a LOT of plastic - I have small children that have lots of plastic cups/sports bottles and multiple plastic bins from their bento-style lunch boxes. No, the plastic does not completely dry. I end up putting most of it on a dishtowel on the counter for an hour or so to finish drying.

If my tankless hot water heater is set high (120 degrees)the cycle time is 104 minutes or so. In the summer when we keep the water below 105, cycle times can be up to 120 minutes.

If we go out of town, I do notice a slight musty smell in the dishwasher upon return. I think it may just be the smell of "wet stainless" if that makes sense.

When we first got the d/w I did comment that I thought it didn't hold as much as our old Kennmore. I think the sidewalls are a little thicker to allow better noise insulation. We used to run the d/w every day and now I find I run it 3 times in 2 days. But, now that I think about it, I did get new pots and pans (All-Clad) that I put in the dishwasher. I used to handwash my old Calphalon hard anodized. That's probably where the extra washes are coming from.

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clipped on: 10.16.2008 at 09:46 am    last updated on: 10.16.2008 at 09:46 am

RE: Bosch Dishwasher Feedback & Concerns (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: paddy_99 on 09.25.2008 at 10:02 am in Appliances Forum

I have a Bosch SHX55M05UC-SS that I truly enjoy. The plastic food storage containers are not dry when the cycle is finished but that is not a major problem. I have never had to clean a filter,I think it only has one and it is only about 1 1/2" in diameter and pulls out very easily. When the contractor installed it and we ran it through its cycle for the first time he said it was the quietest washer he had ever heard. Cycle takes about 1 1/4 hours depending on load size.

The dishes are so sparkling clean that I have to put on sunglasses when I unload it. That may not be totally true but the dishes are certainly clean and sparkling. We had another Bosch previously but the dishes did not look as good as the ones do from this machine.

I was going to suggest you look at a French Door refrigerator but I see you already have a SxS. After only having the FD for a few weeks I certainly would not consider going back to a SxS.

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clipped on: 10.16.2008 at 09:44 am    last updated on: 10.16.2008 at 09:44 am

RE: Quietest Dishwasher (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: petlady1 on 05.06.2008 at 04:02 pm in Appliances Forum

After dumping the Whirlpool QuietMaster III (or some such name) after only three years, which we'd bought on the recommendation of "Consumer Reports," which was so noisy we couldn't hear the TV or talk on the phone AND it did a lousy job of cleaning the dishes, anything would have to be an improvement. A friend had Bosch but had to have frequent service calls because some wire kept breaking. In her new home, she bought a Miele. Although I choked at the price, we bought a Miele 6 mos. ago, the diamante. We LOVE it. It does a fab job on our dishes, and we have to check to see if it's really on, because it's so quiet. We haven't regretted our decision for a second.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:45 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:45 pm

RE: Opinions on Bosch DW (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: clinresga on 09.23.2008 at 12:16 pm in Appliances Forum

I'm going to repost my comments from an earlier thread as I think they're still representative of our rather extensive experience with Bosch DW's:

"We have owned three Bosch DW's to date, the oldest of which we have had for perhaps 10 years now. Regarding capacity, I have not seen any significant loss of capacity versus the generic GE we had prior to buying the most recent Bosch. We have a family of four with two teenagers, so our use is probably less than a family with small kids using sippy cups etc but it's more than adequate for daily use. We do have a second Bosch currently in the basement which we use for spillover, mainly after entertaining.

The comment about "drying overnight" is ridiculous. Yes, Bosch like other European manufacturers uses residual heat rather than an electric heating element to dry. It works well for glassware and silverware. Tupperware and other plastics are often still damp to wet, and we will sometimes put them on a drying rack before storing. The typical length of a cycle, including drying, is about 90-100 minutes. If you take dishes out as soon as the cycle is over, everything is dry except the plastic ware. Certainly there is absolutely no need to wait "overnight" to get things dry.

Reliability has been generally good. We had to replace one circuit board but it was my fault (spilled a glass of apple juice directly down the vent in the door). The soap dispenser is somewhat fragile--on the 10 year old model it pops off the track if you push it too hard, so I'm careful to close them correctly (push door til closed, then push DOWN on the back of the door to lock the door--don't just keep pushing harder and harder to get it to lock).

Overall they are very nice machines. Quite quiet, although interestingly the newer ones are a bit louder than the oldest one. Confession--for our ongoing renovation, we are actually getting two Miele Excellas--but that's mainly for the crystal capability and the fully integrated look."

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:40 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:40 pm

RE: Plastics and dishwashers (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: jerrod6 on 06.01.2008 at 12:45 am in Appliances Forum

In Europe most of the connections are cold water so the DWs and washers are designed to heat the water. Some models sold in the USA, at least Miele, can be connected to cold water and it will heat the water it draws for the wash and last rinse to the temperature it needs so it doesn't care what's in your hot water heater, plus this may be more efficient than setting a big tank of a water heater to a higher temp just for a dishwasher.

If you have incoming water of 110F and the cycle you are using needs 167F it will heat the water to that temp. If you are using the china cycle which uses a temp of 115F it will heat the water to that temp. However many brands made for the USA market tell you to run the water at the sink and make sure it is 120F because they are not expecting to heat cool water and in fact their manuals state that if you use the sanitize cycle and the water is not 120F the sanitizing will fail.

Most plastic nowadays, even plastic wrap, can withstand the temperatures in a microwave so I don't think melting plastic from hot water is a danger.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:36 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:36 pm

RE: Plastics and dishwashers (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: fahrenheit_451 on 05.29.2008 at 11:48 pm in Appliances Forum

Miele's Excella and LaPerla both have a plastics cycle (click the link named "programs" under Standard Features). Miele will also be releasing its new models later this year (so they say) and their new G 2002 La Perla has one of the following features:

Unique Advanced Drying Features

Mieles drying process is the most innovative of any dishwasher made today. The Clean Air drying system circulates room air around the exterior cavity in the machine. This pulls moisture from the dishware to the walls of the dishwasher where it drains away. To assist this process, the new Sensor Dry feature measures room temperature so that it can adjust the heat of the water, rinse aid distribution and drying time to maximize performance. Drying Plus opens the door automatically at the end of the cycle to let out moisture and provide superb results, especially for plastics.

We currently have an eleven-year old Asko that does plastics just fine. We do intend to replace it with the new Miele LaPerla when it is released.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:34 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:34 pm

RE: Plastics and dishwashers (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: gizmonike on 05.29.2008 at 11:40 pm in Appliances Forum

Our Miele Excella has a Plastics program that has a lower temperature than "normal". We've also used other programs for loads that contain some plastic, & it's still works well. Everything comes out so clean, & no warping. One thing I really like about the Miele is that we can load anything anywhere, since there's no exposed heating element to melt anything.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:33 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:33 pm

RE: After 2 bad dishwashers, need advice and help! (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: david1217 on 10.14.2008 at 10:31 am in Appliances Forum

Hi fauguy, just to add my experiences on Bosch dishwashers.
I have had three Bosch dishwashers, the first two in a larger home side by side, been doing a great job and trouble free for seven years. Now in a smaller home and with one Bosch dishwasher , this one three years old and trouble free. Yes they have an odd smell as they break in , usually lasting a few weeks. I have never , never found anything in the filters to rinse or clean out. I have cooked for twenty people dinners with different people loading the dishwashers and never anything in the filters.
Everything is clean if loaded so it can get sprayed properly and plastic is dry especially if doesn't trap water. I would talk to Lowe's and get a Bosch. Sorry about your troubles but if Electrolux is a Fridigaire I had trouble with a brand called Euroflair by Fridigaire which was the last time Fridigaire brought a so called high end line over from Europe. Good luck David.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:27 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:27 pm

RE: can I use powder and no rinse agent in Bosch dishwasher? (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: kali200 on 06.01.2008 at 11:34 pm in Appliances Forum

I would NEVER buy a Bosch , ever, again...I was SO excited when I had it installed....It was the top of the line, $1100 4 years ago...From day one it has NEVER, EVER, EVER dried my dishes...I have used every rinse aid on the market and it makes no difference whatsoever...I have had Sears out 9 times to try to fix it and they finally said, sorry, can't do anything else for ya....So, I get to wash my dishes in a $1100 dishwasher, then get up and hand dry them...What a waste of money...I have spoken with others who have the same problem...DO NOT buy a Bosch unless you want to be disappointed...

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:18 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:18 pm

RE: can I use powder and no rinse agent in Bosch dishwasher? (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: mindstorm on 12.03.2007 at 08:07 pm in Appliances Forum

Meg, not at all and thank you in turn for not bristling at my post which I'll confess was more than a bit sarcastic. There are a couple of things I've heard people here report (with Bosch's, sadly!)that surprised me and that, had I been told I was required to do to make my Bosch DW perform, I would return the DW stat and no buts about it: the opening to dry and increasing their hot water feed temperature to some ungodly (and unsafe number). The opening the door to dry is actually perhaps the lesser of the two sins. Some time ago, a few people came here reporting that they were told to increase their hot water feed temperature to their DW to - I don't recall but something quite high like 140 or 160deg. The safe limit for residential purposes is supposed to be 110 or 120degs as I recall, not to mention that in addition to risking an accidental scalding, one is burning fuel and money for no good reason than that the DW is not doing its job. And they did it! And then propounded it to others as the thing to do to enable the DW to clean or to dry or something nutty! Anyhow, both can cause so much self-inflicted injury (personal or pecuniary) that it gets me a bit excited. Sorry.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:17 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:17 pm

RE: can I use powder and no rinse agent in Bosch dishwasher? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: mindstorm on 12.03.2007 at 07:41 am in Appliances Forum

I wonder how Bosch has such a great customer satisfaction rating when I read so many posts about non-drying and bad smells....

...because most people use rinse aid and don't have an issue with the dishes not being dry

because the dishes *are* dry. I use the minimum qty of rinse aid I can get away with in my DW and the dishes really are dry. I do need to mop up water pooled in the backs of mugs but that is about it.

I read about people opening their dishwashers to vent 'em to dry and I have to think that these folks are being penny wise (and even that bit is dubious), pound foolish. I wouldn't want to expose the cabinetry around the dishwasher to hot humid air escaping from the cracked DW every day for hours on end. That hot humidity can do more expensive damage to the cabs which would be far far more complex and expensive to correct than replacing a dishwasher. This DW really does dry the dishes just fine! either figure out how your installation is off nominal and address or else spring for a new one. There is NO way that pouring hot steam over your cabinets is the thinking man's solution! Really. And I'm being kind there! :-)

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:16 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:16 pm

RE: Which of these Bosch/Miele dishwashers will be best? (Follow-Up #16)

posted by: poseyjungle on 07.23.2008 at 04:26 pm in Appliances Forum

I was thinking recently about the appliances we bought when we remodeled our kitchen three years ago, and I realized that both our Bosch appliances - a dishwasher and cooktop - have been a disappointment. The dishwasher doesn't come close to getting the dishes clean unless I scrub - not rinse, scrub - them before I run it. While the cooktop works well, there are little quality issues like screws falling off and loose parts that shouldn't be happening in such an expensive appliance. It also scratches terribly. These were our "higher end" purchases, which makes it even more disappointing.

To each his own, but I will never buy Bosch appliances again.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:13 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:13 pm

RE: Which of these Bosch/Miele dishwashers will be best? (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: cindyinsocal on 07.22.2008 at 01:10 am in Appliances Forum

I have a two and a half year old Bosch and I have to say that I do NOT love it. We have had draining issues three times and it smells! We have snaked the drains, cleaned out the hose, and everything suggested. I still smell it. We have not had it installed for the last four weeks, as we are in the middle of a kitcehn remodel. Just befroe taking it out, it stopped draining again. We thought for a few days about replacing it, but in the end my DH fixed it once again and it is going back in. I have to say that my old kitchenaid was the best ever. Got things very clean. The biggest plus that the Bosch has going for it is that it is so quiet. Sometimes I forget if I have even turned it on.

Just my two cents worth, bt if it was me, I wouldn't spend the money on a Bosch.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:12 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:12 pm

RE: Which of these Bosch/Miele dishwashers will be best? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: chinook73 on 07.15.2008 at 10:02 pm in Appliances Forum

We have a Bosch (not one of the models you listed but all Boschs are pretty much the same from a mechanical standpoint) and my vote is that you go with a Miele.

Our Bosch has just been meh, and it STINKS, it has stunk from pretty much day one. I maintain it really really well and it's still rank. Google "smelly bosch dishwashers" and you'll find plenty of other people with the same problem.

We're moving into a new house next week and I went with a Kitchenaide because I couldn't stand the thought of another Bosch. I just don't think they live up to the hype.

Good luck!

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:07 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:07 pm

RE: Bosch vs Miele dishwasher (Follow-Up #34)

posted by: susanandmarkw on 09.02.2008 at 11:43 am in Appliances Forum

I've never had a Miele but heard such great things about them here and planned on them for our new house build (a few years ago now) but when I went to test them--not available locally--I couldn't put a LOT of my pots, pans or cookie sheets in them. Even salespeople tried--and they tried hard--but no luck. I ended up with two top-of-the-line Boschs and am reasonably happy. I put EVERYTHING in the dishwasher (HATE washing dishes by hand) and 8 or 9 times of 10 they come out clean and no problem. Yes, plastic stuff doesn't get dry (not an issue for me, as I hate plastic and never used it, until we had a toddler; now plastic cups, etc. are a necessary evil) and occasionally a load will have to be run twice because the dish soap dispenser didn't open. Also glad I got them locally, since I had LOTS of problems with other "out of area" appliances I purchased. One of the Bosch's arrived non-working and the (local) dealer/company exchanged it for me within 72 hours with a brand new, working unit, installed. Both run very quiet (barely hear them in our great room--only during the drain cycle).

So, not perfect, but pretty damn good is my assessment of the Bosch and, cost-wise, they were a tiny bit less expensive than the comparable, top-of-the-line Miele.

-Susan W.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:04 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:04 pm

Bosch 18 inch dishwasher (Follow-Up #31)

posted by: pixchick on 07.27.2008 at 12:43 pm in Appliances Forum

I have an 18 inch Bosch dishwasher on order, but haven't made a final decision on whether to order their stainless door (extra $300) or attach a matching panel from my cabinetry, which requires (according to Bosch) an accessory hinge kit ($150). I can not find ANY information on how to determine what size panel is needed or how to attach it. My appliance store said that I should get that information from wherever I ordered the cabinets but the cabinet place is telling me that the door length I need to make everything line up is over an inch longer than the maximum door length recommended by Bosch. Very frustrating. Does anyone have any information about this? I even called Bosch, and they couldn't give me an answer. They said they don't let their tech people talk to customers, which would be fine if someone else there was able to answer the question. I don't even have the dishwasher yet and I'm starting to hate it....

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:03 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:03 pm

RE: Bosch vs Miele dishwasher (Follow-Up #29)

posted by: sandyk666 on 03.30.2008 at 04:01 pm in Appliances Forum

Has anyone had a problem with an oily/tar like odor coming from the exterior top of their Bosch DW.????
Bosch has replaced mine 3 times (it's only one month old!!!) and there still is a odor.
They are now just going to remove the machine. They know there is a problem accoding to their service reps.
Model SHE55MO

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 03:02 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 03:02 pm

RE: Bosch vs Miele dishwasher (Follow-Up #22)

posted by: goodcookin on 03.28.2008 at 06:17 pm in Appliances Forum

Weissman, thanks for your thoughts about the possible reasons. Wish that was it. Have always used rinse aid, have never pre-rinsed the glasses and have followed all other advice about avoiding etching re detergent and water types.

Started out scraping plates. Kept on doggedly scraping plates. Kept on getting specks of glued on food and a mess in the case of oatmeal. And my stacking was definitely good. Found that pre-rinsing regular dishes and pots was the only thing that helped, but still had to check every item for cleanliness before putting it away. Assumed the Bosch just didn't work as well as my previous machines. Perhaps mine has been faulty from the get go in addition to the most recent lower rack failure. I wish Guadelupe well with the new Miele.

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clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 02:59 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 02:59 pm

RE: Miele owners: self-clean or perfect-clean (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: trailrunner on 06.14.2007 at 04:33 pm in Appliances Forum

I have the double ovens and the Perfect Clean. I also have a baking stone that I got on Amazon. It is the right size for the oven racks and makes great use of the 500 degree convection bake to do pizzas and bread. We bake our homemade pizzas for 8 minutes and they are wonderful. I use the rottiserie and have had no problem wiping up the Perfec Clean surface. The product to use for cleaning with a Dobie pad is called Citrus Magic. It is what the appliance store suggested and works very well. It is true that if you let stuff bake on and turn black it is harder to get it off but the C.M really does the trick. Hope this helps. Caroline

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clipped on: 01.27.2008 at 08:33 pm    last updated on: 01.27.2008 at 08:34 pm

Meile Masterchef oven settings

posted by: chinchette on 01.06.2008 at 02:45 pm in Appliances Forum

I am interested in learning more about my oven. Roccoco, if you are out there, you say that you use the auto-roast setting a lot. I have been doing chicken on auto-roast at 400 and it comes out great. How is that different from the some of the other settings at 400? I am a bit confused because the oven says it is searing at 400, but in this case the entire bird it cooked at 400 the whole time. So... I am not sure what the oven is doing.

Anyone else have tips on how to best use the settings? The main thing I cook is chicken at 400 auto-roast, and brisket at 325 intensive.

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clipped on: 01.06.2008 at 05:12 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 05:16 pm

RE: Meile Masterchef oven settings (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: rococogurl on 01.08.2008 at 03:35 pm in Appliances Forum

I make 2 pound meat loaf in a glass loaf pan. It cooks for 50-60 minutes at 375 on convection roast or at 400 on regular bake. Never used a meat thermometer for that -- stick a skewer in it and if the juices run clear it's done.

Jamesk's meat thermometer looks like a good one though. I have older Taylor instant reads that come in handy though using the probe eliminates testing and gives me the countdown at the end so I can time veggies.

Chinchette -- roasting is high heat ocoking basically and it's open cooking -- meaning that you want the air to go all around it so that it's evenly browned all around. Autoroast is a setting that browns and uses air -- perfectly for chicken, turkey, rolled roasts, leg of lamb, cornish hens, whole fish -- anything that needs to brown.

I use 400 on autoroast most of the time, even for fish fillets. You can lower it to 375 if it's spattering like mad or getting dark too quickly. But 400 is my autoroast default

Intensive is good for brisket.

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clipped on: 01.09.2008 at 06:26 am    last updated on: 01.09.2008 at 06:26 am

RE: grrr miele do. spend $$$ no instruction (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: rococogurl on 10.21.2007 at 03:27 pm in Appliances Forum

Fairegold, just for your own edification, "Master Chef" settings are the automatic settings on the Miele oven geared to people who don't know how to cook and may not have time to learn.

So you put in your turkey and the oven will calculate the cooking time and prompt you before it's done.

There's nothing to push -- the oven controls are done on an electronic touchpad. There is a learning curve associated with using it, however.

Recently, I made a video of the new Turbochef oven, which I saw at an NKBA new product fair. It's the first new type of cooking technology I've seen in a very long time: big blast convection combined with microwave.

What was most interesting is that, like the Masterchef, the controls are food driven, not temperature driven.

If you're cooking a leg of lamb, the setting is meat, lamb, leg etc. -- not 375 dgrees for 1 hour 20 minutes.

The Masterchef is partway there. But more importantly, I think we'll see more of the food-driven technology vs assumed knowledge, combined with moving from slow, single-energy heating systems towards faster and combi- energy oven systems. We see it already.

If one of your pals on the Cooking forum has a newer Miele, you might find it educational to take a look at how it works even though you might never use or want one yourself. It's different and cooking-forward.

I'm a classically trained and made a living cooking for a decade. What's such fun for me now is to adapt my my tried and true recipes to the way my new oven works.

Recently I bought a round roast on sale. It weighed less than 2 pounds. Rather than do any calculations, I stuck my probe into it, set the doneness for 135 (medium rare) and put the oven on autoroast (setting I prefer for meat and poultry) at 375. 4 taps on the pad.

I always cooked like autoroast -- starting foods hotter to sear them then turning the oven heat down-- but now it's automatic.

I have no idea how long the roast cooked. I know that 20 minutes before it was cooked to perfection, the oven beeped me and the 20 minute countdown to done started on the readout. The oven beeped again when the meat was done.

The OP needs her owner's manual. I'll bet they will send her a replacement if it's too cumbersome to download. I keep mine in the drawer next to the oven.

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clipped on: 01.08.2008 at 11:27 am    last updated on: 01.08.2008 at 11:27 am