Here is what you should know about Swanstone:
1) There is caulking (and the associated periodic maintenance) in the corners where the panels meet and also at the base of the panels where they meet the tub. This will have to be re-done every 3-5 years if you dry your tub/shower after use. If you don't towel down your walls, you'll need to do it more frequently.
2) Swanstone requires carbide blades to cut. Don’t even think about reusing a carbide blade for cutting other materials after it has been used on Swanstone. Even carbide dulls quickly when cutting this material. You’ll destroy a hole saw and probably 3 or more scroll saw/saber saw blades during your installation. Plus a 40 tooth finish grade carbide circular blade. Consider it part of the price of your project. Make sure you have extras before you even start.
3) Scribing and coping the panel walls so they fit closely in the corners and against the tub is a must. Swanstone is easy to sand with a belt sander (makes a mess, use a good respirator). An Accuscribe tool makes this a lot easier.
4) 2 people are required to move and dry fit the panels. They are unwieldy and the material is very dense. Both people need good dry leather gloves on. The edges, when cut with carbide blades, are sharp.
5) You want a really solid backer board behind Swanstone. The panels are a quarter inch thick so they can bow unless adhered to something that is quite rigid. I used Durrock cement backer board. The backer board should be primed with a good primer (Zinsser) before installing the Swanstone product.
6) Acetone!! They say you can clean the Swanstone product well enough with alcohol before caulking. Don’t waste your time with alcohol. Use acetone. In my experience, Swanstone is impervious to acetone and you will create a much faster drying and oil free bonding surface for silicone caulk with acetone. I wiped all sides and edges with acetone to remove all oil and fine dust after cutting & coping and dry fitting prior to installation. The bond to the walls is very strong.
7) The biggest headache is the required 2x4 bracing. Setting this up is a royal PITA. Use masking tape to hold vertical 2x4’s in place against the panels while you position and wedge into place the horizontal 2x4’s that create the side to side pressure. Measure the inside dimension between the vertical 2x4’s exactly and then add 1/16 of an inch, this is enough to create sufficient side to side pressure. Make sure you pre-drill holes at an angle through the horizontal braces so that you can screw them to the vertical braces. If a horizontal 2x4 falls out, it will damage your tub and you get to start all over. Bracing the back wall panel with shims takes time and patience. Do not be in a hurry, you have plenty of time before the silicone adhesive sets up.
8) A word on framing: Use Timberstrand studs behind the cement backer board. This will draw a lot of comments from folks, but here is the line of logic: Timberstrand is delivered with a much lower moisture content than any other kind of stud except steel. It is also perfectly straight & square. Due to its low moisture content, it undergoes much less dimensional change once installed. This is critical behind tub & shower walls. Timber strand is 3 times more expensive than regular lumber, but it is worth it in this area. When you frame with it, take the time to get everything perfectly square and plumb and you will have a much easier time with coping and fitting the Swanstone panels.

Further up in this thread, there was a comment made about redoing grout in tile after 3 years. Yeah, that is true in my experience if the lumber behind the backer board was "wet" (high moisture content) when the tile was installed. This is common. Problem is, it becomes a self perpetuating problem that requires major tear out and remodeling in pretty short order. The cycle goes like this: Tile & grout is installed over high moisture content lumber. The lumber twists and shrinks as it dries out causing micro fine cracks in the grout (grout is brittle). Folks shower and the walls get wet which introduces more moisture that gets behind the grout and ultimately the tile. Do this daily for a year or so and the backer board is now wet. The backer board transfers moisture to the studs so they undergo expansion causing bigger gaps to appear in the grout and more water to be added to the system. Leave it untreated for 5 years and your studs will begin to rot and tile starts falling off the walls. Plus you have mold growing in cracks in your grout that is really tough to keep out.
I’ve done two bathrooms in my current house with pretty intricate tile work. They are beautiful! Nothing looks as nice as well done tile. However, both are occasional use bathrooms that get used maybe 10 times per year. I did Durrock over steel studs in both tiled shower areas and they should hold up for 20+ years with nothing more than yearly resealing of the grout. The two daily use shower areas are Swanstone over Durrock with Timberstrand studs in one and steel studs in the other. They should now hold up for 20+ years as well with twice daily use and once every three years re-caulking of the seams.

We must keep in mind that the supply pipe (pipe from the municipal main or well pump) is a single line that conveys all the water consumed in the structure. Once the supply arrives at the structure it is then divided into two separate but fairly equal systems, the Hot & Cold distribution systems. IN order to insure a balanced pressure the Hot & cold systems should each have a capacity of approximately 1/2 the volume of the supply line which is acheived by reducing the pipe size by one nominal trade size. Thus, if you have a 3/4" supply both the hot and cold distribution systems should be 1/2". Idealy the supply line runs undiminished in size until it reaches the junction of the Hot & Cold systems at the water heater then both the hot and cold water lines downstream of that junction are reduced one nomininal trade size.

The proper method of determining line size is by means of the code tables of "Fixture units". We have one table that lists all the types of fixtures that would commonly be found in a structure and it assigns a fixture unit value for both hot and cold water.

We begin by listing all fixtures in the structure and thier associated fixture unit value. From that we can determine a total load for both Hot & cold water as well as a total fixture unit value for the structure. We then consult another table that breaks the available static head pressure into three groups by example, the International Residential Code lists the pressures as 40-49psi, 50-60psi and 60+psi. We then need to know the length of the line from the municipal source to the furthest fixture. From the available pressure and length of the line we can then find the total fixture unit load on the table to determine the proper size of the supply line. We then use the cold water demand fixture unit value to determine the cold water line size and repeat the method to determine the hot water side.

Simply adding a larger fixture such as a soaker tub or whirlpool tub does not necessarily require a larger line because the tub mixer is still rated at the max 4gpm flow rate.

The code minimum size for a residential supply line is 3/4" which is normally sufficient for a structure with up to two bathrooms,a kitchen and laundry.

Painfuly labor intensve.

Sister pieces of ripped 2x (half a2x4 stud works well) by screwing to the side of the old studs ad sticking out just enough to create a flat plane for the cement board.

I usually screw the studs top and bottom and then go back and nail them about every 2 feet with a nail gun.

Hammering the nails can damage the wall on the other side of the bathroom studs.

Find the high spot of the existing studs and make that the new plane location.

if it is very bad you might need to get a had power plane to face off the old studs, but nails will tear up the cuter quickly.

Simply using a Sawzal to cut away a little more than needed works better.

MASTER BATH

I'm guessing that the shower and the clawfoot tub will be separate entities? The links are simply for reference, I'll stay within the Hansgrohe family if able.

1) Hansgrohe Shower on slidebar: You can buy items separately or as a kit. But in whatever combination you'll need:
1a) wall bar
1b) hose to connect handheld shower head to supply outlet
1c) handheld shower head
1d) wall supply outlet/elbow

2) For the Hansgrohe Rainshower head:
2a) Shower head
2b) Shower arm for out of the ceiling OR wall.

3) Thermostatic Valve:
3a) to get the water to the handheld and/or the rainhead, you'll want a thermostatic with built-in diverter to keep things simple. Hansgrohe has the Hansgrohe iBox that will do the trick.

For an alternative choice, Hansgrohe has the Thermobalance III valve. It has three outlet ports, you only need two. The extra port can not be capped. So what your plumber can do it to plumb port "A" to one shower head, then loop ports B and C together and have them feed the other shower head. Additional instructions are in the installation manual for the valve.

3b) You'll need a trim kit for the valve to make it all purdy.

If getting another valve, you'd need a trim to match that valve. In general, trim kits are not universal. Though they come in different styles, they are matched to the specific valve they are mated to. So always make sure the trim kit will fit the rough-in valve that you have chosen.

4) Grab bar:
4a) You'll want blocking behind the walls for the grab bar. If not, then consider Wing It anchors.

4b) For grab bars and, take a look at grab bar specialists.

5) Clawfoot Tub: Depends on the tub, but you can have faucets that mount on the tub rim, the bathroom wall, or freestanding faucets that come through the floor next to the tub.

5a) Pick your poison!

5b) Now that you've filled the tub, you need to drain the tub. You'll need a drain/overfill mechanism.

SECOND BATH:

Shower on slide bar (goes over tub in an alcove)
Tub spout, stopper etc.
Thermostatic valve
Divertor?
Grab bars
Wall mounted fold down seat (one of the users will be my elderly mother. Not sure what to look for here)

You can get a complete trim kit for this through Hansgrohe, or again buy the items individually.

Complete trim kit but you'd also need the iBox valve listed in the master bath description.

The iBox valve and the listed complete trim kit would take care of everything but the grab bars and shower seat.

If you wanted to break things out individually, then for the handheld you'd need the same stuff as above: Wall bar, wall outlet, hose, handheld head.

For the valve, you'd need the iBox valve and the iBox trim kit or your choosing. Or if using another valve like the Thermobalance II, you'd need the TBII valve and a TBII trim kit or your chosing. The TBII is an "A" or "B" diverter, which is fine for a shower/tub combo.

For the tub spout, you'd need to pick out a spout that DOES NOT have a diverter built in to the spout since the iBox valve already has the diverted in the valve itself. The spouts with diverters are usually used with pressure-balanced valves.

For the tub, if the plumber is not supplying it, you'll need a drain assembly. Any generic one will do.

Grab bars are the same as previous.

Shower seats, it's a personal reference, but I like a large shower transfer seat. Sit down, swing your legs into the tub, then bathe while sitting or standing.

A lot of links, hopefully they all work.

Best, Mongo

Go to any local ACE or True Value hardware store and you can find a generic shower head that is solid brass and just slightly larger diameter than the shower arm pipe. These shower heads have on ring of tiny holes and produce a spray that rivals the output of a pressure washer. And the best part, they are under $5,,In fact, at the plumbing supply house they come in a two pack for $5.

They don't look impressive and you certainly won't have the upscale brandname for bragging rights, but if you want a forceful shower this is the best $5 you will ever spend.

We once put these shower heads in all 200 rooms during a motel remodel and the motel guests were so impressed that the motel sells those shower heads in their gift shop for $14

There are 2 different head styles available. We like the E, but the S is a bit more modern. There are also more bar styles, but this is our favorite.

Here is a link that might be useful: S head

Onelady, I know the wallbar can be used with a tub spout, not sure about the rainhead, although it should be possible with the right controls - check with a local store. For a shower only, you need the wallbar and shower head (sold as a set or separately), a wall outlet (at least 3 styles available), the rough valve, and the valve trim. The trim comes in lots of different styles to coordinate with the HG sink faucets. I prefer the Thermobalance II or III trim because it lets you control the temperature and pressure separately. We had the less expensive pressure balance valve and trim in our last house and it worked well (all our prior showers worked that way), but now we like to just set our favorite temperature rather than adjusting it each shower (you get spoiled once you have the separate controls, but you will never miss it if you have never had it). For a shower/tub combo, you need a valve & trim with a diverter built in, the tub spout, plus the items listed above.

The niches are pretty easy to do. Your'e correct, the whole thing is hydrobanned with just a smooth rectangle for each niche.
I cut the shelves (marble baseboard pieces from home Depot) to just shy of the width of the niche opening. Measure each one separately and carefully because the hydroban can lump a little bit here and there, so it's not a totally smooth and square space.
I started tiling at the bottom. I installed the first shelf, making sure it had a bit of a pitch forward. (I'd pitched the cement board underneath just a tad.) Then, using spacers, install the side and back tile. The fist row of my side/back pieces are cut on a very slight angle to match the slight pitch of the shelf. Tile up to the level of the next shelf.
Now your're ready for the next shelf. It is simply supported by the tops of the side and back wall tile. There's plenty of depth in the tile to support it. Once it's all grouted it's super sturdy :)
Repeat!

(For what it's worth, we had GW tile guru Bill Vincent tile our master shower and I just copied his method! I'm pretty sure this is the correct, pro-approved way to do it, so, no worries...)

onelady1dog2girls, I used "regular" grout in my master bathroom and kitchen. I'm really disappointed with the floor grout in the master bath. It stained immediately. In the second bath that I just did, I used epoxy grout on the floor (Spectralock) and it's fabulous. But it was a bit hard to work with, and I didn't want to have to do it on the walls and shower area. There, I used Tec Accucolor XT (the "XT" is important if you're looking for it) which is a highly modified grout. More modified than other modified grouts, if I understand right. It's alos a little harder to work with, but not too bad. And so far, it's been a breeze to keep clean.

Of course, white grout is harder to keep clean than darker colors. I used regular grey grout in my master shower floor and it hasn't been too bad, although that awful pink stuff does grow in it. That pink stuff hasn't touched any of the grout in my daughters bath (with the two grouts listed above) and they get the same amount of use and cleaning.

Terri, there are some photos of my master bath during the renovation here:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bath/msg1207570323032.html

and here:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bath/msg0108091815115.html

and here (this one has the most finished photos, at the top and halfway down the thread):
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bath/msg010946331466.html

Here is a link that might be useful: staceyneil's master bathroom

Eliza, one of the main reasons we chose the Relexa ultra is that we wanted to use it as a main showerhead. There's no other showerhead in this bath. I have a Kohler Purist in my master bath (along with a regular showerhead) that's fairly pivot-able but the Relexa is much better. I went and saw one in a showroom before I bid on it on ebay. The mechanism that attaches to the slide bar slides up and down, swivels side to side, AND has a rotating holder on the handset end, so it's pretty much infinitely adjustable. I was nervous about it working as we wanted it to, but it's perfect. I mounted the slide bar pretty high up, AND I mounted the bar's supports at the very ends of the bar, rather than in a few inches the way it's usually pictured, so that there's more range and the showerhead could be high enough for tall people. If you have the choice, and intend a set-up like this, you might want to get the longer slide bar. Mine is the shorter one, but since I paid less than 1/3 retail for it, I couldn't be too picky :) But that would give you even more showerhead location options, good if you have little kids or whatever.

The valve assembly you have shown there will provide all the water controls that you desire....

The tub drain control is part of the tub "Waste & Overflow" kit, which is sold separately.

Allow me to give you some basic information on tub "waste & overflow" kits & P-traps" so you will be sure to get the correct one, and hopefully I can help you save a lot of money.

First off, there are two types. The type most ppl are familiar with is the slip joint type where the drain pipe from the tub drain and the riser up to the overflow are made in two sections and have an adjustable slip joint to permit adjusting the length of each tube to fit your tub.

The slip joint type are primarily intended to be used on clawfoot tubs where the piping is exposed and visible.

If you install a slip joint type waste & overflow and P-Trap in a concealled location such as on a skirted tub code requires that you must have a 12"x12" service access hole either through the adjacent wall or up from the bottom.

For a concealed location that does not have an access panel you are required to use either a brass solder in type or a plastic (PVC or ABS) glue in type.

Unless you have a local code requiring the brass type I would disregard it for a couple reasons:.1. the metal kits are very expensive, 2. Unless you have considerable experience with soldering pipe you will find soldering light guage brass tubing into cast brass fittings is somewhat of an art and generally not within the realm of the DIY'er, 3. There are some very harsh acids that form in drain lines and they can eat right through the brass pipe in 10 or 15 years, whereas plastic is impervious to the acids.

When selecting the waste & overflow you have to select the type of drain control you desire. The basic drain control is the one we are all familiar with where there is a small lever extending out of the center of the overflow cover and you lift it up to stop the drain and push it down to open the drain. With that type they generally supply a small round flat drain cover that fits over the recessed drain opening in the tub. (There is a cross at the bottom of the tubs recessed drain opening and the cover is held in place by a bolt that goes through the cever and screws into a threaded hole in the center of the cross.

The other two common types of tub stoppers is the "Toe-Kick" and the "lift & turn". With the toe-kick type you press down on the drain cover and it locks down in the closed position, when you want to drain the tub you tap it down again and it will pop up to the open position.

The lift & turn is also in the tubs drain opening. To close it you give it a 1/4 turn and it drops down to the closed position, then to open the drain you lift it upwards and turn it 1/4 turn to lock it in the open position.

Generally there are no markings on the drain covers to indicate who made them so even if you are into the bragging rights of brand names, I would highly consider just using a generic waste & overflow kit. The difference here being that if you buy the high end desinger label you can expect to pay $150 or more, whereas you can get a generic kit for $20 to $25 and in all probability the are both the same kit....LOL

No one knows it is there, but you press on it and it opens up.

My hall bath is the mirror image of yours but 12" narrower (5x9). We used glass mosaic tile accents vertically. A 15" strip behind the toilet and a 5" strip in the shower. The four colors of the mosaics tie in with the mirror edge, eq countertop, floating cabinet, and both of the floor-to-ceiling wall tiles.

HTH! docdom

For water supply, copper is still king, though PEX is making inroads. Things may have changed, but as of early last year PEX was not allowed for potable water supply applications in California and Chicago. CA was on the verge of allowing PEX, but I don't know where Chicago is headed. If anywhere.

As to one being better than the other, they both have advantages and disadvantages when compared to each other. It depends on the application and the specific trait you're comparing.

In my area (CT) PVC is pretty much used just for DWV. Black iron pipe is used for boiler work, plumbing oil tanks, plumbing some gas lines, etc.

"Is there one type that is main supply and then another type that connects to the brass-inside-the-wall-parts?"

If PEX is used, usually metal (copper and/or black pipe) will be run off the water heater or boiler to a manifold. PEX will run from the manifold to the areas of use. Behind the wall at the area of use (near the toilet, near the sink) the PEX will transition back to copper before coming out of the wall. So you'll have PEX behind the wall and copper sticking out of the wall.

PEX is like Dracula, it's not good for it to see the light of day. UV from the sun will oxidize the PEX and cause it to lose it's elasticity. The only PEX failure I've seen was PEX in a basement ceiling run, the PEX ran in front of a small basement window and turned a corner right in front of the window. It eventually suffered a sidewall split in the bend. The PEX on either side of the window was fine, the area in front of the window it was discolored yellow. UV damage.

When comparing 1/2" PEX versus 1/2" copper, PEX has a smaller inside diameter. A few people have complained on this forum of trying to fill their bathtubs through a tub spout with a diverter built into the tub spout, and while filling the tub, water was also pouring out of the shower head up above. Those set-ups works on simple gravity flow. With the tub spout being plumbed with PEX instead of copper, the lesser inside diameter of the PEX allowed less water to flow through it, so water was backing up the vertical tubing and flowing out the next exit point, the shower head.

"I have also seen on This Old House a type of fitting to connect pipes that has - for lack of a better description - like teeth to connect copper pipes instead of sweating or threading. Is this common? Acceptable for code?"

Probably Sharkbite fittings. They may or may not be code acceptable. Years ago they were allowed with restrictions. Today while national code may allow them, some local codes still prevent them. Sometimes they are allowed but not enclosed within framing bays. They're easy, but pricey.

For a handyman or DIY repair they might be worth it for the convenience and for not having to fire up a torch in a tight space. But for whole-house, cha-ching!

I will say there are three types of PEX; PEX-A, PEX-B, and PEX-C. The difference is how they are cross-linked. I prefer "A", which is cross-linked by the "peroxide" or "Engel" method. You'll find others who use B (silane) or C (electron beam) methods. No big deal. I'm simply an "A" guy. Personal preference.

With copper, there are three basic versions of copper tubing used in residential construction, or three versions generally available to the DIY crowd; K, L, and M. "K" has the thickest sidewall, "M" the thinnest.

K is usually used for buried applications, L for residential water supply, and M for low-pressure applications like water runs to/from baseboard heating, or water runs from a boiler to a radiant floor heat manifold.

Top of my head numbers, the sidewall thickness of K is about 20% thicker than L, and L is about 40% thicker than M. Thickest to thinnest, K is about 75% thicker than M.

They all use the same fittings, meaning a simple 1/2" elbow will fit all three types. Flow restriction through any of the tubing is not an issue even with the variations in sidewall thickness.

I don't use M for anything, but that's my personal preference. Just K or L.

In a box store, you have to be careful if they sell all three. If they sell it, with the thinnest sidewall M will be the least expensive, so it might look attractive to the budget. But it should not be used for domestic water supply lines.

First, I'm obviously biased by my experiences both as a user and an installer.

For a small shower, a single shower head on an arm high on the wall will do you quite nicely. In a tub surround the shower head up high with the tub spout with diverter down low is still king. Nothing wrong with it at all.

A question I often get is about handhelds. Now when I was a kid handhelds were trash. They leaked, they had the 4-in-1 massage heads where the only thing they massaged was your eyeball because there always seemed to be a pinprick stream of water that would leak out the fitting and nail you in the eye. After a few weeks of use they'd be spraying water out the side seams of the head, up and over the shower curtain, soaking your bathroom floor. Ugh.

Not any more.

Handhelds today are pretty darn bueno. The heads are the same quality as those that get mounted up high on static arms. The hose fittings no longer leak. The hoses no longer twist upon themselves like demented strands of spaghetti.

The big benefit of handhelds is the length of the hose allows you to wash/rinse any part of your body without having to be a contortionist. For shaving legs you can take the head off the bracket and hold it in your hand, or mount it on another wall bracket at knee-height. Or you can use the handheld and it's long hose to rinse off remote corners of the shower's walls when cleaning. Or when bathing kids. Or dogs. Versatility.

Handhelds are an obvious advantage in larger showers, but they can be of use in smaller showers too.

Slidebars versus brackets: In a master bath, it's possible the slide feature will be seldom used. You can still have one...I have one in my shower, my wife lowers it when she's looking for a dry hair shower. Other than that it pretty much stays up at my height. And we're 6'4" versus 5'1".

If you have kids, it's an advantage. Low when they are younger. Raise it up as they grow taller.

Different height users who are particular...I know a couple that resets the head height each time they shower. Although they have a small single-head shower, he demands it at his height, she at hers.

Slidebars can add visual clutter to a wall. But while they are functional clutter, in a small shower someone might prefer the cleaner look of wall brackets. A bracket up high. A bracket down low. Whatever you need.

While most companies' slide bars might be plastic or thin-walled metal, there are some that make them sturdy enough to function and be rated and approved as structural grab bars.

Rainhead? A true rainhead delivers a very gentle flow of water. Personally, if you're looking for a true rainhead, I'd recommend a minimum 10" diameter head. 12" is better. Rainheads generally have to be mounted parallel to the floor, as the water pretty much just "falls" out of the head instead of being sprayed by pressure. Were you to tilt a true rainhead, the water could just run along the tilted face of the head and flow off the low edge in a fat stream.

Due to the gentle flow, rainheads are a nice experience. Quite a bit different from the pin-prickish stronger flow of a traditional head. With the gentler flow, those with long/thick hair might find themselves running out of hot water before they are able to rinse shampoo out of their massive manes.

So I consider rainheads to be a nice secondary head, and I prefer them to be plumbed or mounted close to the center of the shower ceiling where it's easy to stand right under them, versus mounted on a wall arm with the rainhead close to the wall.

Rainheads have been modified, now there are ones with "turbo" functions, or air-entrainment, etc. Sort of halfway between a traditional standard head and a traditional rain head. You'll have to sort through that yourself as there are too many options.

Personally, I think a master shower will do just fine with a "standard head" handheld (can be a 4-in-1 head or whatever) on a long hose and a separate rainhead. That'll give you a functional shower plus the option for a soothing rain shower.

If a couple will be typically be showering together, then consider two one supply valve feeding a handheld head, plus another supply valve with diverter plumbed to feed either a second standard head or an overhead rain head. That will allow one person to shower at the handheld with one water temp setting, and another person to "standard" shower or "rain" shower (via the diverter) with a separate water temp setting.

Body Sprays: Personally, I consider them superfluous. I've used them...I think them a novelty. But there are folks who just adore them, so decide for yourself. Do realize that body sprays can pop the plumbing cost through the roof because:

Showers are required by code to have a minimum 2" drain line. Now you can have two 2" drains, or a single 3" drain, but typical is a single 2" drain line. "2 inch" and "3-inch" defines not just the size of the drain opening, but the diameter of the drain branch under the floor.

Code assigns values to drain lines for how much water they can carry away from the shower. A 2" drain line can evacuate 6DFU (drainage fixture units), a 3" line 20DFUs.

Miraculously, shower heads are assigned values as well. Each shower head is assigned a value of 2. A shower head is a handheld, or a fixed head, or an INDIVIDUAL body spray head.

So with a typical 2" drain (6DFUs), you can have three heads in a shower (3 heads x 2DFUs per head = 6DFUs). Since body sprays are usually installed in multiple groupings, installing body sprays can really ramp up your plumbing requirements, both for water supply lines, the water heater, as well as the drainage lines.

I know some inspectors that count the heads and multiply by two and there you go: a rain head, a handheld, three body sprays, that's 5 times 2 = 10DFUs, you'd need ether two 2" drains or a single 3" drain.

I know other inspectors that look at the supply valves and/or diverters and would recognize that the shower is plumbed so that only the two shower heads OR the three body sprays can be on at any one time...two heads times 2DFUs per head = 4DFUs, OR 3 body sprays times 2 = 6DFUs, a single 2" drain will suffice.

All-in-one shower towers? Another animal that I really can't discuss since they can vary from A to Z.

Anyhow, I'm out of coffee, so it's time to go.

A - As for plumbing needs there are many things not seen and possibly not included with your plumbing hardware. Your tub filler may slide over a section of 1/2" copper or may thread into a Brass fitting.

Your thermostatic control or temperature control valve needs to have integral stops (shut offs at this point - some have them built in others you need to purchase them). Plumbers use plumbers grease to lubricate O rings, they use Teflon tape to wrap threaded joints.

Most fixtures like body, jets, steamer outputs and showerheads mount to a 1/2" brass fitting. Items like copper, solder, flux, Pex pipe, Pex rings and a selection of 90 degree and 45 degree fittings.

Steam pipe needs to be insulated, as do many water lines.

Water lines should not touch metal or cross each other. Electrical tape, pipe tie downs and pipe fasteners can be used to prevent this behind the walls.

Q - "For a shower configuration (like the master bathroom with a separate tub) what is needed beside the shower head and on /off thingy?"

A - Mongo explained this very well - all I'll add is that there are so many ways to do this and so many different valves. I installed a Grohe fixture that could control both a handheld and the shower head - or both from one fixture and with only a 1/2" supply.

Make sure when your talking to your plumbing retailer and looking for your package you ask this questions "Is this everything I'll (my plumber) will need?" With that take your answer with a grain of salt and then call the supplier direct and review with them your purchase.

My experience over the years is that there is always something missed that turns out to slow the process down. The finish material does not line up with the rough in, there was not built in stop, the discharge is a sweated fitting and not threaded - etc.

Q - "What optional fixtures do you like (handheld, stuff like that) ?"

A - I think a second handheld for rinsing shampoo out of your hair and helping clean the shower is a great idea. My wife is a large water hog (blankets for that matter too) and I'm looking forward to the second supply (my supply) when showering together.

I'm waiting for inspections and just finished up installing our new boiler and water lines for some Column Radiators. I'll post a few pictures of the rough in work with descriptions to help label the "Thingings and Whacamacallit's".

Normally 1/2" copper tubing is run from the valve or diverter body to carry the water to the location of the outlet. If you're going to install something permanently, or if you're going to make a connection in a sealed wall, then it’s normally a soldered fitting.

For things like showerhead arms, or body sprays, these are normally threaded connections. A threaded connection allows you to change out the shower head and arm for a different one if the old breaks, or for a new style if remodeling. When making up a threaded connection, you'll want to use something on the thread, either teflon tape, teflon pipe dope, or some other sort of thread sealer that will allow you to break the connection at a later date.

A common way to connect your outlet to your spray head is to run your copper tubing to the location of the outlet, then solder a 90 degree drop ear fitting to the copper tubing.

You can see that the fitting has a smooth inlet for the 1/2" supply tubing to be soldered to, two holes in the "ears" to nail or screw the fitting to the framing, and a threaded outlet where the water will come out of. These fittings are manufactured in different configurations for different applications.

That brass drop ear fitting will be buried in the wall or ceiling. If you are connecting a shower head, then the arm of the shower head gets screwed into the drop ear fitting and the shower head gets screwed on the other end of the arm. That works if it is a wall or ceiling mounted shower head. For a body spray, you’ll need a brass nipple like this:

One end of the nipple screws into the drop ear fitting, the other end gets screwed into your body spray. Nipples come in various lengths to compensate for varying wall thicknesses.

For a hand held shower, the outlet for the hand held is mounted just like a body spray head is mounted. I usually mount the outlet for a hand held down low near the bottom of the bar and offset to one side. That way when the head is hung on the bar, the hose hangs in a graceful "U", right up against the wall. Do a dry run with a piece of rope or string the same length as your hose, you don't want your hose laying on the shower floor.

Hand held shower are usually mounted in a vertical bar, the head can be slid up or down the bar to adjust the height of the head. If you don’t want a bar, then there are wall brackets that the hand held head can be set into. You can use multiple bracket, one high for tall people, one lower for shorter folk, even one low on the wall to hold the head for the leg shaving crowd.

Both the bar and the brackets are surface mounted in the wall, they are held on the wall with screws. You’ll normally drill a pilot hole, insert a plastic anchor into the pilot hole, then attach the bar or bracket by driving the screw into the plastic anchor. It’s easier to drill a pilot hole through grout than it is to drill through tile. Prior to inserting the anchor or driving the screw, I always squirt a glop of sealer into the hole, it helps prevent water intrusion.

As to the hose for the hand held, some are plastic, some are metal. I prefer metal as they lay against the wall more consistently than plastic hoses. One end of the hose screws on to the outlet that you screwed into the wall. The other end snaps or screws onto the hand held shower head. Get a hose long enough so that it can reach all corners of your shower, and then some. It helps with rinsing and cleaning the shower, shaving legs, bathing young kids, or even the family dog.

For wall mounted handhelds, you can get everything in one kit, or you can mix and match. Just make sure that everything is compatible so that you don't end up with a head that won't attach to a bracket.

A good combination is a "standard" wall mounted shower head, OR a "standard" head as a hand held, combined with an overhead rainshower head. "Standard" heads give that nice spray that is strong enough to easily rinse your body or rinse shampoo out of your hair, they often have multiple spray patterns as well.

Rainshower heads give a much gentler flow of water. They provide a different experience than a standard spray head. A rainshower head's flow might not be adequate to quickly rinse shampoo from hair. Some manufacturers have rainshower heads designed to mount on a standard arm that comes out of the wall. Those might not be a good idea, as the rainshower heads work best when they are mounted level, not on a tilt. If the head is mounted on an angle, instead of the shower of raindrops, you might something more like a garden hose effect coming out of one side of the head. Since the water "drops" out of the head instead of spraying our of the head, it's better to not have them too close to the wall. I think rainshower heads work best when plumbed to a central location on the ceiling.

If you can only have one head in your shower, than a standard type head with adjustable spray patterns might be your best bet. When I was a kid, most of the hand held shower heads were of very poor quality. Hose fittings leaked or sprayed water everywhere, the multiple spray heads leaked or sprayed water all over. Today's handheld's are of much better construction.

Construction note: If in a freezing climate, try to keep supply plumbing tubing out of your exterior walls. And if running plumbing for an overhead rainshower in the ceiling, if it's unheated attic space above then you'll want to insulate above the plumbing in the ceiling. Also, pitch the horizontal run of plumbing downwards a bit as the plumbing goes towards the rainshower head, so that when you turn the water off, the water in horizontal run of tubing will flow out the rainshower head instead of pooling and being captured in that horizontal run of tubing.

Mongo

Controls and Diverters
This may be almost impossible to thoroughly attack because there are so many variations in what people want and in what different manufacturers offer.

In general…

You need a volume and temperature control. You can buy just the valve body, which is the chunk of expensive brass that gets buried in the wall, and buy a separate trim kit, or you can buy a package that includes the valve body and the trim kit. The trim kit is the bright sparkly metallic knob/lever/escutcheon bling that you overspend for so your friends and neighbors will go "oooooh" and "aaaaah".

If you buy a pressure balanced valve, the valve in and of itself will turn on the water and allow you to control the temperature. If you buy a thermostatic valve, most valve bodies have two controllers on them, one to control volume and one to control temperature. Read the fine print though, because some thermostatic bodies just control temperature. You’ll need a separate valve body to provide volume control.

Stops. Some valves come with "stops" some do not. What are stops? Stops stop water flow at the valve itself so the valve can be taken apart without having to turn the water off to that branch circuit or to the whole house. They are normally incorporated onto the hot and cold water inlets on the valve body, and they can be opened or closed with a screw driver.

While I’m on this, I’ll also mention that some valves might mention having a "stop screw" to limit the maximum temperature. While a pressure balancing or a thermostatic valve will prevent you from being scalded if someone flushes a toilet, there is nothing to prevent someone from being scalded by setting the valve to allow 130 degree water to pass through it. Your first step is to lower the temperature on your water heater to about 120 degrees. For valves that have these stop screws, it’s then a simple matter of setting a screw that limits how far the temperature knob can be rotated. What you do is rotate the knob to set the water to the max temp that you’d ever want out of the shower, then you turn the set screw until it bottoms out. It will now prevent the temperature knob from turning past (hotter than) it’s existing position.

Downstream of that volume/temp control is where things get dicey. You can have a simple setup where your V/T control just runs to a single shower head. Easy to do. You can have a standard tub setup with a shower head and a tub spigot, where the diverter can be a lever or push button that sends water either to the tub spigot below or to the shower head above. Also easy to do.

If you want to supply water to more than one shower head, to a shower head and body sprays, or to both, either simultaneously or one at a time, then you’ll need more chunks of expensive brass to bury in your wall.

If you want separate controls and the ability to have differing temperatures come out of differing fixtures, then it’s easiest to go with multiple V/T controllers. One V/T controller for the shower heads, for example, and a separate V/T controller for the body sprays. This allows you to run different volumes and different temperatures out of the different heads. Your shower head can be 105 degrees and your body sprays 110 degrees.

Remember, the more hot water that you want to come out of your shower, the larger your supply tubing and valve bodies need to be, and the larger your water heater has to be. For sizing purposes, most shower heads and body sprays have a gallon per minute rating applied to them. In theory and planning only, if your hand held shower head is, for example, rated at 3gpm, your rain shower head rated at 4gpm, and each of your 8 body spray heads is rated at 1gpm, and you want to run them all at the same time…you’re looking at a flow of 15gpm. You need a water heater that can supply you with 15gpm of hot water, then you need supply tubing that can get 15gpm of hot water from your water heater to your bathroom, and you need valve/diverter bodies that can pass the required amount of water through them so you get decent flow out of each fixture.

Typical plumbing is 1/2", typical valves are 1/2". For high volume situations, 3/4" tubing and 3/4" supply valves may be required. Out of the valves you can usually run 1/2" tubing to your shower heads and body spray heads.

Back to the hardware. If you want a shower head and body sprays, and want to run either or both off of one valve, then you’ll want a diverter valve.

Diverter valves can be anything and everything. They can be simple A/B valves, where you can run the water through the valve to only "A", your shower head, or only to "B", your body spray heads. But not both at the same time.

Which leads to the A/B/AB valve, where you can send water only to "A", your shower head, or only to "B", your body spray heads, or to "AB", simultaneously to both.

And from here things go wild. There are A/B/C/AB/AC/BC/ABC valves, and things just can go on and on from there.

Diverter valves are usually described as having a certain number of "ports". 3-port, 4-port, 5-port, etc. Realize that one port is where the water goes in to the valve, the other ports are where the water comes out. So an A/B/C valve that has three outlets might be listed as a "4-port valve", with the fourth port being the inlet.

Not all 4-port valves can do A/B/C/AB/AC/BC/ABC, you’ll need to look through the description to find out where it can send the water to. A 4-port valve might just be an A/B/C valve, or it might be a more versatile A/B/C/AB/AC/BC valve. Read its description.

If you can’t get the customization you need from a single volume/temperature controller and a single diverter, you can run multiple diverters off of one V/T controller, or multiple diverters off of multiple V/T controllers. It all depends on how much brass you can afford, how much water you can supply, and if you have the space to hide all that brass in your walls.

Diverters can be knobs, levers, push buttons, the choice is yours. But do remember that you need to match up the valve body to the desired trim kit so that the bling that your neighbors can see will fit on the expensive chunk of brass that they can’t see. You don’t want your plumber to bury that expensive chunk of brass in your wall, then tile, then find out later that your bling won’t fit. Very depressing.

It’s all about reading the fine print.

Mongo

The sort of where, what, and why of pressure-balanced versus thermostatic:
Pressure-balanced or thermostatic temperature control valves are code-required in bathroom plumbing because they eliminate potential scalding and cold water shocks that can occur in a shower.

If you are using the shower and a toilet is flushed, as the toilet uses cold water to refill the tank, the pressure in the cold water line drops a bit below what it was when just the shower was running. If you had a non-balancing valve, you’d still get the same amount of hot water that you originally were getting, but with the drop in pressure in the cold water line you’d have less cold water coming out of your shower head, creating a potential for scalding. Vice-versa, if someone turns on a hot-water faucet elsewhere in the house, the hot water pressure drops and you get a shower of mostly cold water.

A pressure-balanced shower valve is designed to compensate for changes in water pressure. It has a mechanism inside that moves with a change in water pressure to immediately balance the pressure of the hot- and cold-water inputs. These valves keep water temperature within a couple degrees of the initial setting. They do it by reducing water flow through either the hot or cold supply as needed. Because pressure balanced valves control the temp by reducing the flow of water through the valve, if your plumbing supply is already struggling to keep up with the three shower heads and nine body sprays that you have running in your shower, if a pressure balancing valve kicks in and chokes down the water supply to keep you from getting scalded you could end up with insufficient water flow out of the heads in a multiple shower head setup. When it comes to volume control, in terms of being able to turn on the water a little or a lot, for the most part pressure-balanced valves are full-on when water is flowing or full-off when the valve is closed. Flow-wise, think of them as having no middle ground.

Where flow and volume control are important, as in a shower that requires a high volume of water, a thermostatic valve may be the better choice. They also control the temperature, but they do not reduce the amount of water flowing through the valve in doing so. Thermostatic valves are also common with 3/4" inlets and outlets, so they can pass more water through the valve than a 1/2" pressure balancing valve.

Which should you choose?
In a larger multi-outlet master shower, while a 1/2" thermostatic valve may suffice, a 3/4" thermostatic valve might be the better choice. But it does depend on the design of your shower and the volume of water that can be passed through your houses supply lines. In a secondary bathroom, or in a basic master where you have only one head, or the common shower head/tub spout diverter valve, a 1/2" pressure balancing valve would be fine.

If you want individual control and wanted multiple valves controlling multiple heads, then you could use multiple 1/2" valves instead of one 3/4" valve and all would be just fine.

What do the controls on the valve actually control?
While it may vary, a pressure balanced valve is normally an "all in one" valve with only one thing you can adjust…the temperature. The valve usually just has one rotating control (lever or knob) where you turn the water on, and by rotating it you set the water to a certain temperature. Each time you turn the valve on you’ll have to set it to the same spot to set it to your desired temperature. For the most part you really don’t control the volume, just the temperature. With the valve spun a little bit, you'll get 100% flow but it will be all cold water. With the valve spun all the way, you’ll get 100% flow, but it will be all hot water. Somewhere int eh middle you’ll find that Goldilocks "just right" temperature, and it’ll be at…you guessed it…100% flow. So with a pressure balancing valve, you control the temp, but when the valve is open, it’s open.

A thermostatic valve can be all inclusive in terms of control (volume and temp) or just be temperature controlling. If it’s just temperature controlling, you will need a separate control for volume or flow. Example, with an all inclusive you’ll have two "controllers" (knobs or levers) on the valve, one to set the temperature and a separate one to set the volume. In this case you can set the temp as you like it, then use the volume control lever to have just a trickle of Goldilocks water come out of the valve, or you can open it up and have full flow of Goldilocks water coming out of the valve. You can leave the temp where you like it when you turn the volume off after you’re done showering. The next time you shower, turn the volume on, the temperature is already set. Some thermostatic valves are just temperature valves with no volume control. You’ll need another valve/control to set the volume. Read the product description carefully to see what you're getting.

What size valve should I get?
Yes, valves actually come in different sizes. The size refers to the size of the inlet/outlet nipples on the valve. For a basic shower, a 1/2" valve will suffice. For a larger multi-head arrangement, a 3/4" valve would be better. Realize that you’ll need a water heater that can supply the volume of heated water you want coming out of the heads, so don’t forget that when you build or remodel. Also realize that if you’re remodeling and have 1/2" copper running to your shower, capping 1/2" copper supply tubing with a 3/4" valve provide you with much benefit as the 1/2" tubing is the limiting factor. You can, however, cap 3/4" supply tubing with a 1/2" valve or a 3/4" valve.

Is one better than another?
Thermostatic valves are "better" in that with them you can control both volume of flow and temperature, so you have more control, and they hold the temperature to a closer standard (+/- 1 degree). They also perform better if you are running multiple outlets in the shower, as they do not choke down the amount of water in order to control the temperature. But you pay for that added flow and added control. Pressure balancing valves can be had for about $100-$200, thermostatic valves can be twice that amount. And more.

Will I suffer with a pressure-balancing valve?
For what it’s worth, when I built my house over 10 years ago I put pressure-balancing valves in my own house. While I have two outlets in my shower (sliding bar mounted hand-held on the wall and an overhead 12" rain shower head on the ceiling), I have a two separate pressure-balancing valves, one valve for each head. With both heads going in the shower, I notice no loss of flow in the shower when the toilet is flushed and the sink faucet is turned on simultaneously. I also notice no change in temperature. So they work for me.

If you are remodeling, if you have your existing sink running and you flush the toilet and notice a drop in volume coming out of the sink, then a thermostatic valve might be the better choice even if you're not having a multi-head setup installed.

If, as part of the remodel, you plan on running new supply lines through your house to the new bath, then properly sized runs will take care of that flow restriction and you can probably do a pressure balancing valve instead of a thermostatic.

So in a house with tricky plumbing, or with a restricted water supply, or with multiple outlets running off of one supply valve, a thermostatic valve might be the safer choice.

Mongo