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Planning For Storage (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: buehl on 05.17.2009 at 12:59 am in Kitchens Forum

Once you've finalized your basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size/configuration of your cabinets and drawers. (The following is a general write-up I've come up with...)

  1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your new kitchen, regardless of where it's stored now...kitchen, basement, dining room, etc.
  2. Next, take the list and group the items according to function. Will they be used during prep? cooking? baking? cleanup? Some items, like pot holders, may belong in two different zones (in this case, cooking & baking). You can either find storage between the two zones or have duplicates and store one in each zone.
  3. Now, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)
  4. The next step depends on the stage you are in the design/order process...

  5. If you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have. So...

    • Identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.
    • Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.

  6. If you are still in the design phase, you will have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.

    • Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.
    • Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).
    • Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)
    • Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.

You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

This not only helps you to "see" how things will fit, but it also will help when you move back into the kitchen...you won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy "map" for everyone to help find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!

Common Zones, Appliances In That Zone, and Suggestions For What To Store There:

  • Storage--pantry & refrigerator--tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags
  • Preparation--sink & trash--utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books, paper towels
  • Cooking--cooktop/range & MW--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.), paper towels
  • Baking--ovens/range--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins, paper towels
  • Cleanup--sink & DW & trash--detergents, linens, dishes & glasses, flatware
  • Eating/Serving--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR--table linens, placemats, napkins, dishes & glasses, flatware
  • Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords
  • Message Center--phones, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard

Less Common Zones:

  • Tea/Coffee Bar--coffeemaker--mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot
  • Pet Zone--feeding area--food, snacks

Commonly Used Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer

NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.

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clipped on: 03.31.2014 at 04:59 pm    last updated on: 03.31.2014 at 04:59 pm

What goes where?

posted by: peace_rose on 06.01.2009 at 12:30 am in Kitchens Forum

I've been reworking the draft of our kitchen layout (thanks everyone!), and have been assessing what's in our current kitchen and trying to find a home for everything on paper. I want to put the right cabinets in the right places. Does anyone have a ready-made list of "what goes where"? Such as:

- Cereal and canned goods go in the pantry
- silverware and glasses near the dishwasher
- potholders go near the stove
- Most appropriate place for the trash can
- best place for storage of cookie sheets, measuring cups, etc.
- etc, etc, etc (Someone, somewhere must have done this before, right? Feel free to mention even the most obvious!)

This is like putting a puzzle together!

I'm sure there's some universals, and some that depend on the particular set-up. Ours is shaping up to be an L-shape with an island.

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clipped on: 03.31.2014 at 04:57 pm    last updated on: 03.31.2014 at 04:57 pm

RE: Range in Island (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: live_wire_oak on 02.15.2013 at 09:35 am in Kitchens Forum

Remember, actual cooking is only 10% of the time you spend in your kitchen. Prep is 70%. So, keep that in mind if you want to have an island cooking zone.

Having an island cook station can be a great choice IF...

If there is enough landing space to either side and rear for safety. NKBA standards are 12" to one side and 9" to the rear and behind. But, that's in the process of being revised to larger. I personally prefer at least 18" on one side and 24" to the other with 24" to the rear if you have seating there.

IF you want to prep there beside the cooktop, you'll need even more space. At least 36" on one side of that cooking station. And that will be cramped, as you will still need the emergency landing spot next to the hot zone. 48" is better. And that leaves you turning back to people to access water, which is MUCH more critical to the prep process (70%) than it is to the cooking (10%). You may find that even with a nice sized space, that you still don't face out into your room because it doesn't have easy access to water.

IF you want to have a "do it all" station on the island with a prep sink so that you can face outward, you're going to have a pretty big island. 24" safety zone + 30" range + 48" prep and safety zone is already 102" (plus counter overhang). Add in an 18" cabinet for a prep sink on the end, and you're at a 10' island. Without any landing space on one side of that prep sink. Add in a minimal 12" for that, and count your counter overhang, and you're at a 135" island. It takes a BIG kitchen to manage to do that.

IF you do overhead ventilation properly, you will about double the expense of a perimeter vent's costs. It's not just about having a more difficult route to vent outside. It's the fact that your vent is open on all sides. No adjacent cabinets or walls to help contain the cooking byproducts and funnel them into the vent. That means your vent needs to be wider and deeper---and more CFM than if you went with wall ventilation. And that just might pull you into the dollar bill suck zone of having to have heated makeup air. New building code regulations call for this. THe actual CFM at which this is required does vary according to location, as it's more of an imperative in a cold location like MN than a warm one like MS, but it is a national building code requirement that all of the states have adopted. Some are just more serious about enforcement than others.

Done correctly, with all of the proper safety and ergonomic considerations, and with proper ventilation, island cooking can be a great choice! (It's just that most people really and truly don't manage to actually DO what's needed to make it a successful choice.)

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clipped on: 01.02.2014 at 12:44 am    last updated on: 01.02.2014 at 12:44 am

Cooktop in Island - love it or hate it?

posted by: muskoka_mum on 01.28.2010 at 04:38 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am leaning towards our cooktop in the island. Some say don't do it and others say do it....

I like the idea of facing out and socializing while I cook, watching tv, etc. As opposed to my back to everything.

Our island is about 3.5ftx9.5ft.
For those with their cooktops in your island - how do you feel?

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clipped on: 01.01.2014 at 03:09 am    last updated on: 01.01.2014 at 03:09 am

Frameless vs frames

posted by: olivertwist on 05.27.2012 at 01:35 am in Kitchens Forum

I really want to maximize storage space. Are there any cons to frameless cabinets?

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clipped on: 10.28.2013 at 01:30 am    last updated on: 10.28.2013 at 01:30 am

Granite counter top support over a dishwasher

posted by: ricardojgomez on 05.01.2010 at 12:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

Good morning everyone. I am new to the forum so I hope I am doing this right.

I am in the process of updating my counter tops in my kitchen. I have a question regarding what options I have to support the stone while it goes over my dishwasher. Saddly our dishwasher is at the end of the counter so the granite cant be supported on the other end because the stove is adjacent to it.

Is there some sort of bracket I can mount to the back wall or am I going to have to go with some sort of sheet metal that will span the entire length of the counter top to support the stone.

I appreciate your help and time on this.

Cheer,
Ricardo Gomez

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clipped on: 08.20.2013 at 12:52 am    last updated on: 08.31.2013 at 01:45 am

Corner Cabinet Space Calculations and Analysis

posted by: davidahn on 02.20.2013 at 02:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

This is an attempt at putting some numbers to the age-old question: what do I do with this darned corner?!? I have answered this question for myself, but thought my analysis might be helpful to others pondering this same question.

Methodology:
- Tried to standardize on a 24D x 48W blind cabinet
- Lazy susan & corner drawers required 36 x 36 corner cabinet
Total usable space is calculated based on the interior space of the drawer/pullout
Usable space given is PER TIER and calculated based on the footprint of the box
Multiply usable space by number of tiers/drawers for total storage area
Drawers and pullouts are 22” deep minus 5/8” drawer front/back
Drawer widths are box width minus 3/4” box sides, 1/2” drawer slide clearances, and 5/8” drawer sides
- Your cabinet builder’s specs may vary slightly from my numbers

Corner Cabinet Studies

Shelves & Non Corner Drawers
Plain shelves (not shown) maximize space use (88% of footprint due to plywood box sides and back) but minimize accessibility. The gold standard is drawers (see 'Non Corner'), balancing space utilization and accessibility (only 73% of footprint due to hardware and clearances), but obviously, two drawer stacks are NOT an option for a corner. Space efficiency should be compared to the drawer 'gold standard' rather than plain shelves which are a terrible idea for any deep cabinet, especially corner cabinets!

Corner Drawer
The corner drawer solution (53% of footprint, 73% of non-corner drawers) does have LARGE dead dead space in both corners, and awkward angles all over the drawers. The pluses are: you can store a lot of stuff by having 4 drawers (2728 sq in), and you can have access to ALL of your stuff. 4 corner drawers offer 81% of two 24W drawer stacks, but takes up 12.5% more floor space.

Super Susan
The super susan (60% of footprint, 82% of non-corner drawers). It’s impractical to do more than 2 tiers, and it lacks a certain sex appeal, and stuff can fall off and get lost in the dead space areas. There’s a maximized version of the Super Susan called the Korner King, which looks like it stores a LOT of crap, but it looks like a Frankenstein’s cabinet, an esthetic purist’s nightmare. For those not offended by its looks, functionally it has a lot of broken up pieces of storage of which only about 10-40% of your stuff is accessible at a time.

Custom Corner
My 'custom corner' (narrow pullout, wide side slide), my choice, has the same usable space as drawers per tier (73% of footprint), but a lot less accessibility due to the limitations the corner imposes. I chose it because while we have lots of storage space, I still wasn’t ready to seal off the corner. The large sideways slideout is perfect for items like our 60 and 100 qt pots that wouldn’t fit in drawers anyway (we occasionally cook for LARGE groups). The main pullout would have 3 tiers for more often-accessed items, for a total of 1494 sq in (514 s.i. x 1 full height slideout for big pots, 327 s.i. x 3 for front pullout), a decent amount of storage including a very large, full height side-slide. 2 L + 3 S tiers would give 2009 s.i.

Dead Corner
The simplest corner solution, the 'dead corner,' only gives 29% of the footprint in storage, or 40% of the storage of 48' of non-corner drawers. But if you use a 4-drawer stack, you get a lot of functional storage - 1348 sq in, though no room for tall/large items.

Magic Corner
Hafele’s Magic Corner offers that WOW factor when you see it gleaming and gliding in and out with soft-close. But it’s only 536 s.i. per tier (49% of footprint, 67% of non-corner drawers), 1072 total s.i. It could store more, but it’s designed to fit in more applications (21D cabinets, narrower cabinets), and therefore has a lot of dead space.

Thoughts
- Unlike straight base cabinets where there’s clear consensus that drawers are best, corners are ALL about limitations and compromise (and debate, with everyone having their own favorite corner solution that fits their needs)
- Drawers offer the greatest accessibility, and by using 3 or 4 drawers, you quickly make up for less space efficiency over 2-tier solutions. For example, even though the dead corner only offers 29% of the footprint of storage per tier, multiply that by 4 drawers = 1348 sq in, more than the Magic Corner’s 1072 s.i. and almost as much as the Super Susan’s 1550 s.i. with 144 s.i. smaller footprint. Despite the large dead spaces, the Corner Drawer offers a LOT of potential storage, up to 2728 s.i. with 4 drawers, though losing large item capability.
As impressive as the 'Magic Corner' solutions are to demo (I too “ooooh”ed at first), they are extremely costly (about $900 and up after hardware and baskets) and optimized to fit in shallower cabinets so have more dead space than other solutions.
My custom corner maximizes total use of the footprint area and also maximizes large and bulky item storage with relatively limited access to the inside corner area, while minimizing cost.
- As with marriage, there is no perfect match, only great or poor fits for your needs. If you’re unhappy with your corner solution, either ignore the limitations or find a better solution. Just don’t expect perfection!

Here is a link that might be useful: Korner King - not for me, might be right for you?

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clipped on: 08.12.2013 at 07:36 pm    last updated on: 08.12.2013 at 07:36 pm

RE: Your experience with Kashmir white granite? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: suzannesl on 02.14.2012 at 08:36 am in Kitchens Forum

We have the Kashmir Gold which has gray to gray-blue tones. It has a "lifetime" sealer on it, so I don't anticipate having to re-seal. No issues with staining, etc. Our KG seems pretty light to me - I've seen KW which is lighter and KG which is darker, but ours seems to be in that middle ground. We had originally thought we'd go with a green paint for the walls, but when we chose this granite we picked up the blue tones instead.

Overview

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clipped on: 08.10.2013 at 09:09 pm    last updated on: 08.10.2013 at 09:09 pm

RE: giallo ornamental granite??? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: suzannesl on 05.04.2012 at 10:58 am in Kitchens Forum

How much natural light will there be in the kitchen? With the natural cherry cabinets, I like the darker granites. My only hesitation would be all the pine paneling *if* there's very little natural light. With natural light, I think you'll be fine.

Photobucket

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clipped on: 08.09.2013 at 01:57 am    last updated on: 08.09.2013 at 01:57 am

daveinorlando.....

posted by: kngwd on 09.03.2010 at 11:46 am in Kitchens Forum

I saw in another post that you sell Interstock cabinets??? You're also one of the only ones I've seen mention Kabinart...Would you mind giving me your insight on both?? We have a quote from a small place up here in NJ for Kabinart,which seems very reasonable and I like what I've read about the cabinets. But friends recently re-did their shore house with Interstock and say they love it. We were wary of the 'made in China' stigma and no warantee. We are hoping to hit their warehouse facility in NJ this weekend to quote it out. This is our forever house so we want something that will last but the kitchen is pretty big (probably about 20 or so cabinets, with 2 or 3 pantry cabs and hopefully cabs around the fireplace with bookselves above if we can swing it!)and we are limited with our budget. We will be DIY'ing everything to save on costs. Willing to pay more if we need to for quality, but if Interstock fits the bill for less money, we are open!

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clipped on: 07.31.2013 at 02:12 pm    last updated on: 07.31.2013 at 02:12 pm

your opinions needed for final kitchen layout

posted by: messyguy on 05.01.2013 at 02:44 pm in Kitchens Forum

Thanks to many feedbacks from you , I revised my kitchen design, i moved the dishwasher from the right of the sink to a different wall. This change enabled us to keep get more storeage for the prepzone and separate the prep zone from the cleaning up zone. Please, help me check for any design issues/ draw back before I order cabinets. Thanks!

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clipped on: 05.01.2013 at 03:30 pm    last updated on: 05.01.2013 at 03:30 pm

Books about kitchen design

posted by: marvelousmarvin on 04.28.2013 at 03:09 pm in Kitchens Forum

Any recommendations for some good books or sources about kitchen design?

I checked out a bunch of kitchen books from the library. But, most of them were just pretty pictures of kitchens and they really don't explain or teach kitchen design. And, that becomes a problem because those kitchens become dated if there's no underlying sense of good design. Some of those books were from 2000s, and those kitchens are already dated.

I'm looking for a book that has more than just pretty pictures of what's popular for kitchens today. I want a book that really explains why this design choice is better than than design choice. I don't just want a pretty kitchen- I also want a functional, smartly designed kitchen.

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clipped on: 05.01.2013 at 03:25 pm    last updated on: 05.01.2013 at 03:26 pm