Once you've finalized your basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size & configuration of your cabinets and drawers.

1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your new kitchen, regardless of where it's stored now...kitchen, basement, dining room, etc.


2. Next, take the list and group the items according to function. Will they be used during prep? cooking? baking? cleanup? Some items, like pot holders, may belong in two different zones (in this case, cooking & baking). You can either find storage between the two zones or have duplicates and store one in each zone.


3. Now, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)

The next step depends on the stage you are in the design/order process...
4. If you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have. So...


• Identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.


• Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.


5. If you are still in the design phase, you will have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.
• Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.


• Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).


• Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)


• Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.

You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

Sample storage map: http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x108/Buehl/2008-2009 Remodel/Kitc hen/20 Designs/Storage Plans/StorageMapping-CooktopWall.jpg

This process and the resultant "map" will not only help you to "see" how things will fit, but the map will also help when you move back into the kitchen...you won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy map for everyone to use when attempting to find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!

Common Zones, Appliances In That Zone, and Suggestions For What To Store There:

• Storage--pantry & refrigerator--Tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags


• Preparation--sink & trash/recyclables--utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books, paper towels


• Cooking--cooktop/range & MW (and near a water source)--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.), paper towels


• Baking--ovens/range--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins, paper towels [often combined with Cooking Zone]


• Cleanup--sink & DW & trash--detergents, linens, dishes & glasses, flatware


• Eating/Serving--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR--table linens, placemats, napkins, dishes & glasses, flatware


• Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords


• Message/Communication/Command Center--keys, phones/answering machine, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard, pens/pencils, sticky notepaper

Less Common Zones:

• Tea/Coffee Bar--tea/coffeemaker (and near a water source)--mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot


• Snack/Beverage Center--near MW & refrigerator or small refrigerator--snacks, snack dishes, glasses [often combined with Tea/Coffee Bar]


• Pet Zone--feeding area--food, snacks, leashes, medicines (if no children in the home), etc.

Overlapping of Zones

Due to space constraints, some zones often overlap. If this is the case in your kitchen, be sure there is enough work space in the overlap for both activities. Zones that commonly overlap...

• Prep & Cooking Zones--These zones should be adjacent to each other, so this is a common overlap and is generally not a problem. Just be sure you have enough room for prepping as well as landing space for the range/cooktop. (It is strongly advised you have enough room for emergency landing space on both sides of a range/cooktop.)


• Prep & Cleanup Zones--If there is only one sink in the kitchen, these zones will be adjacent to each other because of the need for a water source for both zones. However, true overlapping is not generally a good idea. Instead, try to keep the cleanup area separate from the prep area by putting the sink between them. E.g., DW on one side, Prep Zone on the other side. (You should strive to keep the DW out of the Prep Zone as well as out of the path between the sink and Prep & Cooking Zones and between the refrigerator and Prep & Cooking Zones.) Also try for at least 36" (42" or more is better) of room on the Prep Zone side of the sink for ample workspace as well as accommodating the inevitable dirty dishes that will accumulate next to the sink.

Commonly Used Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer

SPECIAL NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.

Some helpful threads:

forestfire..please help me with my lists [Missing In Action as of 5/16/10...if anyone has saved it, please let me know by emailing me via "My Page"]

List of stuff in kitchens?

What should go within easy reach of the cooktop?

What goes where?

Reloading the new kitchen, any tips where things should go?

Only one lower cabinet...would you do it?

Here's the plan (so people don't have to switch back and forth) and it should be easy enough to put the garages side to side. The only window would be over the vanity (which isn't really necessary) and you could take out that side door, and have outside access to the garage, from the porch instead. Just an idea :)

From Cottage house plans

My kitchen cabinets from UltraCraft are semi-custom. LOVE them. They are Frameless cabinets that allow size modifications in 1/16" increments to height, width, and depth (or all 3) at no additional cost. So, go ahead and make your uppers 13" or 14" deep for those extra large mixing/salad bowls and charger plates, and maximize your storage space for example storing glasses 4 deep instead of 3 deep. Have deeper base cabinets. Make your toekick slightly shorter so you have an extra inch or two for more drawers height. Cut down on the fillers you need by making your cabinets the exact width you need them, instead of being forced to choose from 3" increments. I like that all my uppers are flat across the bottom (no frame/dividers between cabinets), so I could install one long plugmold and one long under cabinet light, then hide it all with lightrail at the front. Also, standard is Blum full extension soft close drawer glides, soft close doors, no charge for finished sides (like end of cabinet run), all dovetail drawers with fully captured bottoms, and bunches of other stuff is standard. 100 year warranty.
http://www.ultracraft.com/ Yep, I LOVE them !!!

Cabinet Decisions - I emailed this part to a friend recently, so am copying here ...
1. One of the first things to decide is what cabinet door overlay you want. Inset doors or overlay doors ? Inset doors sit inside of the cabinet box frame rather than attached to the front of the cabinet box. Overlay is further broken down into traditional overlay, partial / modified overlay, and full overlay and determines how much of the cabinet box/frame behind the door you want to show. The hinges can be exposed or concealed for all overlay styles except full overlay. The overlay you choose will automatically knock out some cabinet options and cabinet mfgs who may not make that type of cabinet. (My cabinets are full overlay)
See ... http://www.hansoncustombuilders.com/questions3.html
And ...http://www.kraftmaid.com/learn/choose-right-cabinetry/door-overlays/

2. Then you want to decide on the cabinet boxes ... framed or frameless ? Some mfgs only make one or the other, but not both, so this will knock out other mfgs. Framed cabinets have a frame on the face of the cabinet box that the doors attach to and allows for inset doors as well as all 3 overlay styles (traditional, partial, and full overlay). On frameless, the doors attach directly to the cabinet box sides instead of a face frame. Frameless are typically full overlay, but inset is also possible. I think a small partial overlay is possible on frameless if you are using semi-custom or custom cabinets - you would order slightly smaller doors so a little of the cabinet box would show. Traditional overlay is not possible on frameless because the cabinet box sides are not wide enough to show the traditional 1"-2" of the face frame. (My cabinets are frameless)
See ... http://www.cabinets.com/FORM/THE BOX - construction.asp

The disadvantage of framed is you give up useable space in drawers/pullouts and ease of access on cabinets with doors. This is because the drawer or pullout has to clear the face frame that goes around the opening, so they are narrower from side to side and also shallower from top to bottom. In a small kitchen, the extra useable space from frameless could make a big difference. Estimates say frameless gives 10-15% more space, so 100 inches of framed would be 110 inches in frameless. To me, an extra 10 inches of drawer space is huge, especially when you don't have much to begin with !! Frameless cabinets with doors also offer easier access - there is no face frame creating a 1-2" obstruction on the left, right, and top inside the cabinet doors, also there is typically no center stile between double doors in frameless.

For full overlay doors, there is very little difference in the looks of framed vs frameless. From an exterior appearance standpoint, these cabinets will basically look alike. Because the doors are full overlay, you don't see much or any of the frame and would have to open the door or drawer to see if the cabinet was framed or frameless. For inset doors, the framed cabinets would have a wider frame around the door than the frameless cabinet would.

In the below two pics, the cabinet on the left is framed, and the one on the right is frameless. Looking only at the size of the opening, see how the drawer for frameless is wider from left to right and also has more open space from top to bottom. The useable drawer space is a couple inches more in each direction in the frameless. If they both had the same size full overlay exterior drawer face on them, they would look alike from the exterior. You would not be able to see the useable interior space until you opened the drawer. If they both had inset doors, the framed cabinets would have a much wider "frame" around the door and drawer.

3. The third thing to consider is the cosmetics ... the door style you like, the drawer style (slab/flat/plain drawer front or drawer front that matches your door style), as well as wood species (cherry, oak, maple, etc), and stain or paint colors, glazing, etc. (My cabinets are slab drawer, raised panel door, cherry with a chestnut stain, no additional finishes or glazes)
This website shows just a few of the different door styles available ... http://www.cabinets.com/FORM/THE DOOR - style.asp

4. The fourth thing to consider is stock cabinets vs semi-custom vs custom cabinet mfgs. Stock cabinets are available in 3" width increments (cabinets have to be width of 12", 15", 18", etc), filler strips fill in gaps between cabinets and wall or appliances, you have to choose from the heights and depths they offer, and there are very few options available, which can be pretty pricey to add on. Semi-custom cabinets vary by manufacturer in what customizations and options they offer, but they offer many more options than stock and allow sizing modifications. With custom cabinets, there should be no limitations including drawings for non-standard items, custom molding profiles, door styles, alternate wood species, custom stains & finishes, construction, accessories and options. (My cabinets are semi-custom)

5. Finally, you want to consider the cabinet construction. Not that this is the least important ! It is one of the most important things. Pretty much all the other stuff is just the "pretty" stuff, LOL. This has to do with how well the cabinets are made - are the drawers stapled, dowelled, glued, dovetail ? What materials are the cabinets made of ? etc, etc.

Drawer depths
My bases are 24" deep bases and are all 20" useable interior from front to back. I'm pretty sure I could have (and definitely should have!) requested the drawers be an extra 1-2 inches deep to fill up the inside of the cabinet. I *think* the full extension glides would not have pulled out that extra inch or so, but I could have lived with that !! I could have fit my 8qt stock pots 2 deep front to back in the drawer instead of having to offset them slightly in the drawer if I had even an extra 1/2".

Drawer Heights
The height of my drawer fronts do not line up all the way around the 4 sides of my kitchen, but do line up when you are looking at any one section at a time. I have 2 stacks together that are 6-12-12 separated by a stove. On the opposite corner of the kitchen are 2 stacks that are 6-6-9-9. What helps is that my stacks are caddy-cornered across the kitchen with appliances and base cabinets with doors separating them ... it would be very hard to look in any direction where you could see the "mis-matches" at one time.

My one advice ... find out the interior useable height of your drawers ahead of time. My Ultracraft cabinets are frameless so have more than framed would. They have undermount glides. On the 6-12-12 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 10.5, 9.5 (top to bottom on stack). Where this becomes an issue ... I wanted to store all of my pans, pots, etc vertical on their edges in the drawers so they wouldn't have to be stacked. The middle 10.5" drawers are tall enough for all of the casserole/baking dishes and pie tins, the roasting pan, and almost all of the pans, pots, and lids to stand on edge (the 9.5" drawers are not tall enough for a few of those items to stand on edge). Both height drawers are definitely tall enough for all of the big pots (even the 8qt stockpot) that I own except the huge "canning" pot.

Obviously, neither drawer is tall enough for my 12" pans/skillets to stand on edge (arrggh!). I have really been struggling with how to store these. Right now I have them flat in the bottom of the 9.5" height bottom drawer. Big waste of real estate !! I wish I had a shallower drawer I could put the big skillets in, or either had made my drawer heights 6-9-15 which would have given me 4, 7.5, 12.5 useable. My tallest 8qt pots are 7" tall, so all of them could have gone in the middle drawer and everything on edge could have gone in the bottom drawer (including the 12" skillets!). Google for images of drawers with pans on edge.

On the other side of the kitchen with the 6-6-9-9 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 (top to bottom). I use the top 6" drawers all around the kitchen for silverware, spatulas and all the other kitchen gadgets, in-drawer knife block, foil wax paper cling wrap and plastic baggies, potholders, dish towels, etc. All of those things fit with no problem in these drawers including the ladle and the box grater. The 3rd drawer holds all of the tupperware and is the perfect height for this - 6 would have been too shallow and 12 would have been too deep. The bottom drawer is where we currently keep the paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

(note: the interior drawer heights listed above vary slightly for the bottom two 12" drawers, the top two 6" drawers, and for the bottom two 9" drawers because of an interior cross support and space to clear the granite without scraping at the top)

ALSO: the drawer face to interior useable space ratio will be DIFFERENT depending on if your drawer face is inset, partial overlay, or full overlay, and depending on if you have undermount glides or sidemount glides as catbuilder says above. For example on my 6-6-9-9 four drawer stack ... 1.5" counter + 6 + 6 + 9 + 9 + 4.5" toekick = 36" finished height. My useable heights are 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 = 22.5" total useable height. I lose 1.25-2.25" useable height for each drawer.
Compare to quiltgirl above inset drawers ... 1.5" counter + 5.5 + 5.5 + 6.25 + 6.25 + 4.5 toekick (assumed) = 29.5". Are her cabinets shorter than mine ? No ! Add in between each of her drawers approx 1.25" face frame. She has undermount glides as well so her useable heights are 4, 4, 4.75, 4.75 = 17.5" total useable height. She only loses 1.5" useable height for each drawer face showing, but she is also losing useable height in the face frame between each drawer which is why her total useable space is less.
This is FINE !! Nothing at all against her cabinets. They will be beautiful. And she knew she was going to lose space with the inset when she chose them, but chose to do it because inset is the look she loves.

Drawer widths
The maximum cabinet width my manufacturer would do for drawer bases is 36" wide. I have 4 drawer bases at 21", 32", 17", and 36" wide. The interior useable width of these drawer bases are 18, 29, 14, 33 wide, so 3" less than the exterior width in each.

Going around my kitchen ... first I have a 6" wide pullout broom closet. Next are two 30" wide fridge/top freezers. Then a 24" full height cabinet with pantry space at the top, MW, single oven, and 6" high drawer under oven (4.5" useable height).

The 21" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the left of my stove. Top drawer holds knife block, sharpener, scissors, trivets, potholders. 2nd drawer holds baking dishes on their edge. Bottom drawer is basically empty - it has one 8qt stockpot. If my drawer heights had been 6-9-15 instead (did I say grrrr?), I would have used the middle drawer as a bread drawer and stored the bakeware on edge in the bottom drawer.

Next is the stove.

The 32" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the right of the stove. Top drawer holds spatulas, spoons, ladles, wood spoons, basting brushes, meat thermometer, etc - things that are used at the stove. 2nd drawer holds frying pans, the smaller pots (1qt 2qt 3qt), and lids all on their edges. Bottom drawer holds 8qt pots. Also, the 12" skillets with lids, splatter screens, and griddle are all stacked in one stack flat in bottom of drawer, Grrrrrrr. If they were in the drawer with the other frying pans instead of taking up real estate here, that lone 8qt pot in my other cabinet would have been here with the other pots.

Turn the corner and next is the first dishwasher and then a 36" sink base with Ticor S405D sink (70/30 double bowl).
Turn the corner and next is a 36" wide all door base cabinet (no upper drawer). I use this base cabinet for all my small appliances - blender, beaters, toaster, George Foreman, etc. Next to this base cabinet is the second dishwasher, followed by an 18" prep sink base with a Ticor S815 14x15x8 sink, and an empty space for an ice maker which is where the trash can currently resides.

The 17" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 sits between the trash area/future ice maker and the peninsula and is on the opposite corner of the kitchen from the other drawer bases. The top drawer holds foil, wax paper, cling wrap, plastic baggies, chip clips, and restaurant menus. The 2nd drawer is our "junk" drawer and has some of everything including screwdrivers, clothespins, matches, flashlights, sewing kit, lint brush, etc. The 3rd drawer holds medicine, bandaids, alcohol, peroxide, as well as dish towels and plastic utensils from takeout restaurants in a tub. The bottom drawer is for tupperware without partners - bowls and lids with no matches.

The 36" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 forms the peninsula. The top drawer holds all eating utensils (silverware and kid utensils), serving utensils, chopsticks, handheld can opener, wine opener in a strategically easy-to-access location, etc. The 2nd drawer holds all the other kitchen gadgets that aren't to the left and right of the stove like shrimp deveiners, graters, whisks, rolling pin, pizza rolling cutter-thingy, mashers, salad tongs, etc, etc. The 3rd drawer holds tupperware with their matching lids. The bottom drawer holds paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

Handles
We went with the same size handle for all of our drawers and also only one handle for all of the drawers, no matter what the width of the drawer. They are 4" wide. We maybe would have used different widths, but the ones we liked in the finish we wanted did not come in a bunch of widths. The cabinet guy said they would look fine and they do. We have slab drawer fronts and the pulls are centered top to bottom and side to side on each drawer. We used round knobs on all doors.

Drawer Organizers
We ordered the drawer divider channels from Lee Valley so we could completely customize the interior of our drawers. They often have free shipping on orders over $40. Google for images - lots of gardenweb members have used these.
www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=40168
http://www.google.com/search?q=lee+valley+dividers+site:gardenweb.com&tbm=isch

These are not my cabinets ... examples of pans stored vertically ...

This is my kitchen ...

This post was edited by angela12345 on Sat, Feb 2, 13 at 21:21

Boy, that's a fuzzy photo. Sorry about that. Here's a more focused one.

I (uncharacteristically) did not take many "during" photos. But my step-by-step is basically:
1. Rip out carpet, railing, newel post, and ballusters. Sell the latter for $20.

2. There were cheap pine tread and risers, and they extended beyond the edge of the stairs, so I ripped them out and replaced with stained oak treads and painted poplar risers.
3. I put stained cove molding below the treads to make them look beefier and prettier.
4. I cut a stringer board to go on the outside edge to cover up the drywall edge.
5. I hand cut the curved white cut-outs from 1/8" poplar to cover the edge of the risers. Miter cutting the corners of the skirt board to meet the risers just wasn't in my skill (and tool) set.
6. We attached the railing and ballusters (googling "install iron ballusters" gives a good run-down of the process).

Here's a couple close-ups of the trim-out.

So is this normal or do I have a big problem on my hands? What else do I need to be looking for? This is a brand new custom built house that was finished end of Sept 2011 and we moved in first of Oct 2011. DH checked in the attic and no sign of any water damage or anything like that. We are calling the builder tomorrow, but I want to make sure I am educated and prepared to have a two-way discussion with him & make sure I'm not missing something he may not want to bring up. The floorplan and pics of cracks are posted below. Thanks for any help we can get!

Floor Plan:

Master Bath:

Master Closet:

Master Bedroom:

Zach's Bedroom:

Laundry:

We've asked you for your input in the past and many of you came up with really good critiques about our plan.

Here are the links to our previous discussions...

1 - Background and Initial Plan Presentation
2 - Second Plan Iteration
3 - Front Elevation Discussion

There were quite a few things about the flow of the house that didn't work for you (or for us obviously). Coupled with the fact that the plan had ballooned to over 3100 square feet and would stretch us really thin budget wise... we decide to cut some significant square footage. Out came the extra deep (or 3rd) garage bay along with the sunken family room. Other cuts here and there left us with about approx. 2700 square feet of interior space (not including basement). We found that this was too deep of a cut and left living space a little too cramped in some spots. After going back and forth with our drafter, we think we finally have found the sweet spot: 2870 square feet and a much more "livable/workable" layout.

Front Elevation

Took some of the advice and stopped trying to shove "10 pounds of sh*t in a 5 pound bucket" as someone eloquently commented. We still have different materials, but it less busy and is placed in a more horizontal fashion.

1st Floor

As mentioned, a whole room (and possibly a whole lot of trouble) was cutout from the previous iteration. The sitting/office was converted into a family room with built-in bookshelves. The office part will be set-up in one of the upstairs rooms until kids or whatnot force it to the basement. The fridges in the kitchen are way too wide on the plan - we'll probably aim for a 42" or 48" side-by-side.

2nd Floor

Some rooms are smaller, however due to the new roofline, we're able to have a window at the top of the stairs to bring in some much needed light in the area. Bedroom #3 will serve as a nursery once we have kids and will eventually serve as the guestroom once the kid(s) outgrow it. The fireplace in the master bedroom is still an option (dependant on budget). If it does not make it in, the width of the walk-in closet will be adjusted to give Bedroom #3 a little more space.

Basement

The basement will remain for the most part unfinished for the initial build, but serves as a guide to where the plumbing rough-ins should be located and shows location of extra rooms. The "Exercise Room" will have an egress window and will have the option of being a future guest or kids room.

-----

So that's it! I think we're ready to go ahead with the completion of the plans - unless something important or major is raised by you great folks. So please, let us know what you think!

Then look for a Fernco Waxless Toilet Seal. They have a 3" and 4" model.

When you have to stack wax rings, you increase the likelihood of a side load blowout or the wax ring if the toilet is ever plunged or if there is a backup in the waste line. The other nice thing about the FTS-4 (or the FTS-3) is that once it's set on the bottom of the toilet porcelain (with adhesive), you can set and pull the toilet repeatedly. Unlike wax rings, the FTS is reusable.

Plus, most of my construction has radiant floor heat, so this takes away the problem of the floor heat softening the wax ring.

I can thank positive feedback from GW for my Miele DW with utensil rack, which I adore.

Also, warnings from knowledgeable appliance forum members saved me from getting an AG range that would've vented heat and grease directly onto my white marble slab b-splash.

When I was considering buying a green range, GWers opinions helped sway me away from that choice. I still love that green range, but I know I would've regretted committing to a color since I change my mind and my likes and dislikes so often!

A GWer gave me the recipe for an all-natural cleanser to use on my marble counters. I use it every day, and now I'm using it on my floors.

A GW member provided me with an easy and obvious solution (although somehow I didn't see it myself...) to a kitchen layout problem in my parents' new home. We're rebuilding the cabs per her advice.

I'm not sure how my kitchen would've turned out without the help of Gardenweb!!

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Let's say that you installed the cement board right on the studs and held it just above the tub flange.

Mix up a bit of stiff thinset and fill the gap. Make it flush with the face of the cement board.

Then when you Hydroban, just Hydroban the face of the cement board, and down and over the thinset-filled gap. That should give you a continuous coverage of thinset all the way to the tub deck, if that makes sense.

Then when you tile, hold the tile a grout width's gap off of the tub deck. Caulk that gap.

Sort of like this:

Once you get down to the studs the better way would be what has been mentioned. Adding a 1/2" thick cement board like Durock or wonderboard, and then "painting on" a topical membrane like Hydroban on the cement board. Then tile right on the membrane.

Anyhow, that's a start. Come back with additional questions, someone here will help.

Your main concern with that route is how well the bottom edge of the cement board, or the thickness of the cement board, marches up with the thickness of the flange on the tub. You'd want the face of the cement board to be in plane, or stand slightly proud of, the face of the tub's flange. Then the tile can overhang the flange without the thickness of the flange interfering with the tile, or "pushing the tile out".

Sort of like this drawing. Just think of the Hydroban being where the Kerdi is in the drawing:

If your tub's flange is thicker than the cement board, then you can pad out the cement board by adding furring strips to the faces of the studs. This drawing shows furring strips in place, but it's not drawn specifically for your situation. The intent of the drawing is to simply show the furring strips between the cement board and the wall studs:

I remember seeing some great bathrooms here in the "It's September ..." type threads, but I did not clip them and I am having a hard time finding them now. So ... if anyone is willing to share pics of their bathroom - all types - master baths, kids baths, powder rooms, I would love to see them!!! Thanks!

Placement/ layout
1. Cans should be > 24 to 30 inches from the wall (on center). Most countertop spaces have upper cabinets (typically ~ 12" deep) + crown molding. The edge of the can may be spaced ~ 12" away from the edge of the crown molding (if present or cabinet if there is no crown molding) making the average distance between 26 to 30 inches.

2. Assuming the need for a fairly uniformly lit space @ 35 lumens per sq ft, the cans may have to be spaced closer together - between 3 - 4 ft apart (if all general lighting is provided by recessed lights). A fairly regular pattern is preferable to a random layout.

3. The actual layout of cans will be impacted by the location of ceiling joists, HVAC ducting, electrical wiring, plumbing, ceiling height, fire suppression sprinklers and other obstructions above the ceiling.

Dimming
The Cree LR6 series lamps do not dim as well as the later models (CR6, ...). ELV dimmers probably work better with LR6 than incandescent dimmers since the total load of the lights may not meet the minimum load requirement for the incandescent dimmer.

Dimmers such as the Lutron Diva CL dimmers work well. The max output is 95%.

Some Choices (in order of preference) and notes
Cree CR6 or ECO-575 (Home Depot branded CR6)
ECO4-575 (Home Depot branded Cree CR4 4" recessed light)
The above are only available in 2700k light color.

Cree LR6 series - including the LE6.

The Cree CR6 and LR6 lamps will not fit into 5" housings.

The standard LR6 behaves more like a surface mount than a recessed light as the LED emitters are close to the surface and the recess is shallow. Some may not like the amount of light spillage (standard LR6).

There is a higher output version of the LR6 that has a much deeper recess.

To prevent the Cree lamps from falling out, the 3 prongs have to be fully extended and a slight clockwise twist made when push installing. The slight clockwise twist will ensure that the prongs are fully extended.

The Cree lamps are currently the best available today (2012).

Sylvania RT-6, RT-4. The lights could be easier to install than Cree lamps as they utilize the torsion spring mechanism. However, the lights do not look as pleasant as the Cree lamps.

The Cree and Sylvania lamps do outperform 26W CFLs (and incandescents) in a standard recessed can in terms of light spread and output as the standard bulb in a can solution traps a significant amount of light. The Cree and Sylvania recessed lamp solutions referenced above have all the LED elements facing outwards so that the effective light output is higher.

The CRI (Color Rendition Index) of Cree and Sylvania recessed lamps > 80.

There is no warm up time required for Cree recessed lamps, unlike CFL light bulbs.

Most recessed lighting is used with flat ceilings. Sloped ceilings would require special solutions such as the LE6 or some other form of lighting (i.e. -non recessed lighting).

Some common objections to recessed can lights stem from
1. looks and performance of traditional can lights (standard bulb in a can)
2. swiss cheese effect from too many holes.

Okay, here we go. These questions come from the thread on the discussions side where I solicited questions from everyone for this thread. These are in the order they were asked:

Q) What are the different types of tiles you can use in a bathroom and what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?

A) There are several types of tile available. They fall into two general groups: ceramic and natural stone. I'll take these one at a time:

Ceramic tile-- For purposes of this discussion, there's glazed conventional, unglazed porcelain, and glazed porcelain. All three are good tiles for bathroom use, but the porcelain is a better choice only because of its density and lack of water absorbsion, which makes upkeep and cleaning easier. Also, with reference to steam showers, you DO NOT want to use natural stone, being that the steam would tend to permeate into the stone even more readily than liquid water, and could end up giving you algae problems, as well as mold and mildew problems, unless you don't mind being tied down to your bathroom.

Natural Stone-- There are several types of stone that are used in bathrooms. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're all GOOD IDEAS for bathrooms, expecially the softer (and more absorbant) stones, such as slate or limestone. Now, I know I'm going to get a world of flack about this from epople who have bathrooms finished in these materials. I know they CAN be used.... so long as you're aware of the extra upkeep involved. But if you're someone who doesn't like to keep after things, you may want to pick an easier material to maintain. Generally speaking, the softer the stone, the more the upkeep. Limestone being the softer of the stones, and that would include travertine, next would be many slates (although some would actually be harder than even most marbles, such as brazilian and british slates), then marbles, with quartzite and granite rounding off the list as the harder and more dense stones that you could use.

Q) What should I be sure to look for when choosing tile for a bathroom?

A) Short answer-- something that you like! The bathroom is the one place that just about anything the showroom has can be used. The only limitations are basically the upkeep you want to put in, and slip resistance on the floors of your bathroom and shower. Now, although ceramic tile is basically maintenence free, you don't want to use something with a texture to it that will catch all kinds of junk in the shower, making it more difficult to keep clean. At the same time, you don't want to use a polished stone or bright glazed ceramic tile for the shower floor, either. These both CAN be used, but again, it comes down to upkeep for textured wall tile, and doing something to rectify the slippery floor.

Q) Where should I use tile and where not?

A) Tile can be used on every single surface in the bathroom, if that's what you like. This is all a matter of taste... for the most part. About the only place where there's a requirement is any place there's a showerhead involved. If tile is to be used either in a shower or a tub/ shower combo, The tile MUST go up to a minimum of 72" off the floor. Past that, it's up to the disgression of the owner.

Q) What size tile and what layout patterns to use in various areas?

A) Again, this is a subjective question that can really only be answered by the owner. The ONLY place where there's a recommendation for mechaincal reasons is on a shower floor. TCNA recommends that mothing bigger than 6" be used on shower floors due to the cone shape of the floor's pitch. In addition, most installers will request no bigger than 4", and prefer a 2x2 tile to work with on the shower floor. This is also advantageous to the homeowner who'll be showering in there, because the added grout joints will add more traction to the floor.

Now, I've heard many times that you shouldn't use large format tiles in a small area like a powder room floor, and if you have a wide open bathroom, you don't want to use real small tiles. My response to both is the same-- HORSEHOCKEY. I've done bathrooms both ways-- 24x24 diagonal in a 3' wide powder room, and 1" hex ceramic mosaics in an open 100 sq. ft. bathroom floor. The rule of thumb is if you like it, it's right!

Q) How do I find/choose someone to install the tile?

A) Many people will tell you to get names from the showroom you get your tile from. This is no good, unless the showroom is willing to take responsibility for the installer by either having them on payrool, or as a subcontract. Then they have something to lose if they give you a bad installer. Many people will also tell you to get references and to actually check them out. This ALSO doesn't work. I've been in this work for just under 30 years now, and I've yet to find a single installer who ever gave the name of someone they had a problem with. They say even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in a while. The same can be said for "fly-by-nights" and good work.

So if you can't trust recommendations, and checking references is a lost cause, what do you do? REVERSE THE PROCESS!! Instead of finding an installer and getting references, get references, and thru them, find your installer!! No matter where you live, if you drive around, you'll find constructions sites and developements. Stop and ask who the GC uses. Get a name and phone number. Sooner or later, after asking around enough, you're going to find that the same names will begin to show up time and time again. THESE are the guys you want to use. But don't expect a bargain price, and be prepared to wait, because these guys will be in high demand, even in the worst of times, and they may demand a bit higher price, but they'll be worth every penny, if for no other reason, just because of the peace of mind they'll give you in knowing you're getting a good quality installation. Ask anyone who's gone through this experience, good or bad-- that alone is worth its weight in gold.

Q) What are the proper underlayments for tile?

A) There are several, and I'll take them one at a time:

CBU (cementitious Backer Units)-- This is the term that generally covers all cement boards (such as Wonderboard or Durock) or cement fiber boards (such as Hardibacker). This is the most common used tile underlayment. Generally speaking, it comes in two thicknesses-- 1/2" and 1/4"-- and each has its use. !/2" must be used for wall installations, due to the fact that the 1/4" is way too flimsy with nothing to back it up, and would flex too much to last. Besides, the 1/2" CBU will usually match up nicely to most sheetrocks. The 1/4" is used for floor installations, unless the added height of the 1/2" is needed to match up to other floorings. Being that neither has very much structural strength, so long as the subfloor is 3/4" or more, the 1/4" CBU is all that's needed. Keep in mind that even though it's basically fiberglass reinforced concrete, the only thing it adds to the floor is a stable bonding surface, so the 1/4" will do just fine. One place where alot of contractors will try and shortcut is by using greenboard instead of CBU for shower walls. This is expressly forbidden in the IRC (International Residential Code) by the following code:

IRC Greenboard Code:
The 2006 International Residential Code (IRC) states in
Section R702.4.2 that "Cement, fiber-cement or glass mat
gypsum backers in compliance with ASTM C1288, C1325
or C1178 and installed in accordance with manufacturers’
recommendations shall be used as backers for wall tile in
tub and shower areas and wall panels in shower areas."

The 2006 IRC also states in Section R702.3.8.1 that
"Water-resistant gypsum backing board [Greenboard] shall
not be used where there will be direct exposure to water."

Membranes-- There are several around that work well over many different surfaces. Most of them are what's called "Crack Isolation Membranes". Just about every manufacturer has one, from trowel ons or roll ons, such as Hydroment's Ultraset or Laticrete's 9235 or Hydroban, to sheet membranes such as Noble's CIS membrane. All will give the tile a little more protection against movement than just going over CBU. However, there's another class of membranes called "uncoupling membranes" of which the most popular by far is Schluter's Ditra, that are made from bonding two layers together, usually a fabric fleece backing and a plastic sheeting with dovetailed waffling to "lock" the thinset in place ( as opposed to accepting a thinset BOND). These membranes will, as their name implies, uncouple their two layers in case of movement, to save the floor, and for thinset floors, it's the most protection you can give your tile floor.

Plywood-- This is one where I get the most flack. I'm one of a dying breed that still believes in tiling directly over plywood. However, I can very well understand the reluctance of the industry to embrace this installation method, even though the TCNA DOES approve of its use for interior installations (Those with a handbook can check Method F-149). The reason I say that is it's a very "tempermental installation method. You need to be very familiar with what you're doing, or you risk failure. There are even many pros I wouldn't trust to tile using this method. Everything you do is important, from the species of plywood used, to the direction the grain is laid with relation to the joists, to how it's gapped, and a host of other specs, as well-- many of which won't be found in the handbook, and if you miss just one of them, you're flirtin with disaster. All in all, when people ask me about it, I tell them that with the membranes available, there's no need to go directly over plywood. There are other methods that will give you just as long lasting a floor, and aren't NEARLY as sensitive.

Mudset-- This is the oldest, and still, after THOUSANDS of years of use, the strongest installation method available. In a mudset installation, a minimum of 1 1/4" of mortar called "drypack" (mixed to the consistancy of damp sand) is either bonded to a concrete slab, or laid down over tarpaper or 6 mil poly with wire reinforcement, packed, and then screaded off to flat level (or pitched) subfloor. This is what most people see when tiling a shower pan. Initially, the mud will be a somewhat soft subfloor. But over time, if mixed properly, it'll be stronger than concrete.

Q) What are the proper tile setting compounds?

A) This is one where I could write a book. It all depends on what kind fo tile you're installing, and what the underlayment is that you're going over. I'll give a generalized list:

Polymer/ latex modified thinset: For all intents and purposes, this is the "cure-all". For almost any installation the modified thinset, which is basically portland cement, silica sand, and chemical polymers added for strength, will work. There are some that are specialized, such as the lightweight non-sag thinsets (such as Laticrete's 255 or Mapei's Ultralite), or the high latex content thinsets (like Latictrete's 254 Platinum or Hydroment's Reflex), but with the exception of going over some membranes, there's a modified thinset for every installation.

Unmodified thinset: This is the same as above, but with no polymers added. It's usually used in conjunction with a liquid latex additive, but will also be used mixed with water for going over some membranes. It's also used as a bedding for all CBU's.

Medium Bed Mortars-- This is a relatively new class of setting mortars, used mainly for large format tiles, where the normal notched trowels just don't put down enough material, and with thinset, it would be too much, causing too much shrinkage as it dries, causing voids under, and poor bond to, the tile, but at the same time, there's not enoough room for a mudset installation. This mortar is usually used with either a 1/2x1/2" or 1/2x3/4" notched trowel.

Mastics and Premixed Thinsets: THESE HAVE VERY LIMITED USES!! Let me say that again-- THESE HAVE VERY LIMITED USES!! They work well for vertical installations, where the tile used is 8x8 or less, and it's not a wet area. ALL THREE of those conditions must be met!! I know just about every pail of type 1 mastic says it can be used in showers except for the floor. DON'T BELIEVE IT!! Also, both mastic and premixed thinset (which is just mastic with a fine sand mixed in to give it bulk) claim they can be used for floor installations. Unfortunately, for the amount of material needed under virtually all floor tiles to bond to the subfloor, neither of these will fully harden. I had a personal experience where I helped a sister in law across country, telling her husband exactly how to do his main floor, what to use, and how to use it. Unfortunately, he went to the big box store to get his tile and materials, and they talked him into using premixed thinset. I didn't hear about it until SIX MONTHS LATER when his tile and grout joints started showing cracks all over the floor. When he called me I asked him what he used for thinset, and sure enough, this is when he told me. I told him to pull one of the tiles, and SIX MONTHS LATER, IT WAS STILL SOFT!!! DOn't let them talk you into it!! Use the proper thinset, and don't try and shortcut your installation. You're spending alot of money for it to be "just practice"!!

Q) How do you deal with different thicknesses of tile?

A) Whatever it takes. I've used membranes, built up the amount of thinset being used, I've even doubled up tiles when it worked out that way. Whatever it takes to get the two tiles to be flush toeach other.

Q) What are the typical tools required to lay tile?

A) Generally speaking, this is a list for just about all installations. Some may require specialized tools, but this would be for all:

Proper sized notched trowel
measuring tape
chalk line
margin trowel
nippers
high amp low speed drill and mixing paddle (best would be 6 amp or better and less than 400 rpm)
several buckets
score and snap cutter for straight ceramic cuts
4 1/2" grinder with a continuous rim dry diamond blade for ceramic, anything other than straight cuts
wet saw (can be used for ALL cuts, ceramic or stone)
grout float
hydra grout sponges (2-- once for grouting, one for cleaning)
24" and 48" levels (for vertical work)
heavy duty extension cords
KINEE PADS!! :-)
screwgun or nailgun (where CBU will be used)

Q) What about tile spacing and tpes of grout?

A) According to Dave Gobis from the Ceramic Tile Education Foundation in Pendleton, South Carolina, there will finally be a new standard for ceramic tile next year. The tolerances are shrinking. There will also be a standard for rectified tile. Along with that, there will be a revision to the installation standards that will specifically recommend a grout joint no less than 3 times the variation of the tile. For rectified tile the minimum grout joint width will be .075 or just over a 1/16".

As for grout, there's only one thing that determines whether you use sanded or unsanded grout, and that's the size of the grout joint. Anything less than 1/8" you use unsanded grout. 1/8" or larger, you need to use sanded grout. The reason is that the main ingredient in grout is porland cement, which tends to shrink as it dries. In joints 1/8" or larger, the grout will shrink way too much and end up cracking ans shrinking into the joint. The sand give the grout bulk, and the sanded grout won't shrink nearly as much and therefore, can be used in the larger joints.

I'm going to post my experience with self-leveling compound here in case these tips might help others. (I found a dearth of good info on line, myself!)

I have just finished pouring self-leveling compound in my second bathroom. In both cases, the main purpose was to cover electric radiant heat wires prior to laying tile.

I used loose wire from warmingsystems.com.
I used LevelQuik RS from Home Depot. (I would have prefered LevelQuik ES -extended set as opposed to rapid set- but it was not available locally.)

First, the old subfloor was replaced. The new plywood was then primed with the LevelQuik primer per the directions (diluted over plywood.) After the primer is dry, you need to dam up any crevice, gap, or hole where the SLC could run away. In the first bathroom, I did not really understand how important this was!!! I'd heard to go around the edges of the room with Sill Seal (that pink foam strip you use under a house sill) which would create a nice expansion gap with some give. So I taped it around the edges, and around plumbing holes. This was NOT adequate! When we poured the SLC, you could see it moving towards the gaps and trickling down. We even had to do a second pour since we lost so much down into the crawl space below: ouch! In the more recent bathroom we didn't lose any. Here's what we did:
Fill large gaps at the room perimeters with foam insulation backer rod and Great Stuff spray foam (gap and crack formula).
Stuff foam rod around toilet drain coming up through the floor.
To make a dam at doorways and other straight edges, install a 2x4 with the nails not pounded all the way in.
Go around with a cheapie tube of painters caulk and caulk EVERYTHING!!!! Caulk both inside and outside edges of the 2x4s, and anywhere else there's even a remote change of a tiny hole or gap.

Next, lay the heating wire. (Chisel down a bit to create trenches for the factory splice and thermostat probe. WE install two probes, and leave the second's wires free behind the thermostat, in case the first one fails at some point in the future.) Our wire came with aluminum tape to stick it down with. I used only that tape in the first bathroom, but the water in the SLC caused to to let go so a lot of the wires floated to the surface :( In the second bathroom, I first laid out my wire with painters' tape, then secured it with a hot glue gun. Brilliant! It worked really well, no floating wires. (I removed the painters' tape after the glue was set.)

Then get ready to pour. Figure out how many bags you're going to need. This took some heavy math for me, since my second bathroom's floor sloped about 5/8" over 5' and I assumed the SLC would level that out, so I had to figure out the cubic feet needed using calculations for figuring swimming pool volume, then covert to the square footage at 1/8" coverage stated by the SLC manufacturer.

Have your buckets ready: we assumed we'd need 3 bags and had two buckets already measured with the correct amount of cool water, and then another batch of water pre-measured and ready to pour into the first bucket when it was empty.
I read that cool water extends the working time -or at least the pot life- of the stuff, so we made sure our water was cold. (We were mixing outdoors in Maine in November, so that wasn't too difficult!) The pot life is supposed to be 30 minutes, and the working time is only about 5 minutes once poured (10 for feathering) so we wanted to make sure everything was set to go.

Last time I poured, I used a floor squeegee as a spreader. It didn't really work all that well. The instructions call for a gauged trowel (notched) but we didn't want to use a metal implement for fear of hurting the wires. I saw an EXCELLENT how-to on line that recommended cutting a rubber squeegee into notches. I bought an 18" black rubber squeegee head, cut 1" notches out of it with a utility knife, and screwed it onto a broom handle. This allowed me to spread the SLC around in such a way that it was still able to self-level rather than being pulled up into hills like the straight spreader caused.

OK- so mix the SLC with a heavy duty mixing paddle (I used the round type for paint mixing, about 4 or 5" around) and a 1/2" electric drill. With the water in the 5 gallon pail, have one person running the drill while the other dumps the powder in fairly quickly. We mixed about 1 minute 45 seconds after the powder was all in, then did the next bag, then gave the first bucket another 5-second mix and brought it inside. You'll see how at about 1.5 minutes, the stuff is smooth and a consistency of cake or pancake batter: that's what you want.

My DH person poured, I spread the SLC with the notched rubber spreader. DH went out and gave the second bucket another quick mix, then brought it in and poured. If we'd needed a third bucket, he'd have gone and quickly mixed that one. It turns out we did not. It looked like it was leveling out beautifully. You can tell how the stuff is flowing by white contour lines on the surface, so we knew it wasn't dripping down any unseen holes. (We later checked in the basement and this was correct, yay!) The mix had been perfect consistency, smooth, flowed well. It all looked beautiful- as compared to the first time when the level kept going down, the tape let go and the wires floated to the surface: yuck!)

After a few hours I put a long level on it. The surface is beautifully flat, no hills or valleys -so the large-format tile I'm laying should go on well- BUT.... I was surprised to see that the floor still slants in the same direction. it's maybe 1/8" less pronounced, but the slant is still there. It's funny to me that the SLC would level itself out so beautifully in relation to the floor beneath it, but not in relation to gravity as a whole. I'm sure someone can explain why this is... something about surface tension maybe? It's OK- it's not going to be a problem in this bathroom, but it's just curious! I would have expected the floor to be perfectly level now, wouldn't you?

Anyway- I hope this helps someone!

and

http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-building-science-HERS-BPI/bid/55519/a-good-window-is-still-a-poor-wall?source=Blog_Email_[A Good Window Is Sti]

it isn't only about how the window looks.
condensation causes a lot of damage rotting
from sills down to sole plates.

best of luck. and remember if nfrc sticker
is not on brand you are shopping...shop another brand.

The 111PD is a "hardware only" kit with 3/4" wheels. Your framers/carpenters should be able to build the opening just fine.

For the hardware only kits, I recommend you look at the 200PD and the 100PD. The 200PD has a 400lb capacity and 4 wheels per truck. The 100PD has a 200lb capacity and a 3-wheel truck.

For the entire door kit (framing plus hardware) they have a 2000 series for 2x4 walls and a 2060 series for 2x6 walls, they use the same hardware as the 200PD hardware only kit (400# capacity, four 1" wheels per truck, jump proof track).

The 1500 series framing plus hardware kit is for 2x4 walls and the 1560 is for 2x6 walls, they use the same hardware as the 100PD hardware kit (200# capacity, three 1" wheels per truck, jump proof track).

The 2511 2x4 wall door package that I described as their "entry level kit" uses the same hardware as the 111PD hardware only kit.

For glass doors I always recommend jump proof tracks. You have a single 2-6 x 6-8 door, solid wood stiles and rails with glass. It's heavy, but not ridiculously heavy. I'd recommend having your builder look at the 100PD hardware only kit, or the 1500/1560 complete door kit which uses the 100PD hardware. Upgrade the kit from the standard trucks to the 1125 ball bearing trucks and you have 200# of capacity, three 1" ball bearing wheels per truck, and a jump proof track.

Again, that's just a recommendation.

if you do venture into that scary kitchen forum
you are braver than I am.
even if you don't have a kitchen designer
(KD in kitchenfourmspeak) pretend you do,
else they won't talk with you. (just kidding)

if you do chose recessed lights over track lighting
know these things.
(note the first two are my personal bias, the latter
two, my professional bias)

1-unlike track lights where you can adjust them to
shine where you want them, and as your tastes change
as to highlighting different things in the kitchen,
recessed lights are fixed.
hole in the ceiling, immobile can lights.

2-you have to cut a hole in the ceiling into
the hot attic. a big hole. in the ceiling.
into the hot dusty attic where the can will
be surrounded by whatever type of insulation
that is on the attic floor.

3-folks don't seal the holes they cut. if the
hole is oversized...the trim will cover it.
that is the general mentality.

4-there are different types of recessed lights.
not talking sizes of recessed lights..but that also
will come into play if you chose that route.
there are IC lights..insulation contact meaning that
the insulation can be in contact with the housing
of the light.
and there are ICAT insulation contact Air Tight..
pay attention now..ICAT lights have no holes in the
housing. This keeps air & insulation in the attic..
in the attic.
IC cans allow air to enter the house via these holes.
as the cans are surrounded by insulation, as the air
moves through these holes, it picks up insulation
particles which now have a dedicated pathway into
your home.

recessed lights are sold in boxes of 6. cost difference
between IC rated lights and ICAT rated lights are about
$15-$20 per box.
this is cheap. if you install IC cans and want to make
them air tight, you will pay $15 per insert, per light.
it is worth it to make the trip to the store yourself
and purchase ICAT lights. take one out of the box
and make sure it has no holes in the housing.

all lights have stickers inside the cans. Cooper lighting
is the most common brand. Juno, Halo..all cooper lighting.
their sticker is white with red writing that says AirTight
but if you read the small print..it continues on to say
when used with the following trims..
ICAT however has a white sticker with orange writing.
this is the light is truly air tight.

even with the ICAT cans properly installed when the
hole in the sheetrock is cut, this opening will need
to be sealed to the housing of the recessed can.
I use mastic tape, but it can be carefully caulked
or an air tight trim piece used.

one recessed light = 1 sq ft of uninsulated attic,
due to amount of air that moves through the holes
in the housing & the cut in the sheetrock.
enough attic air comes through recessed lights
to add to heating and cooling loads.

so if you do chose can lights..upgrade to ICAT.
make sure hole in sheetrock ceiling is sealed
to housing of can before trim piece is installed.

or go with track lighting..

either way use cfl's.

ok thats my rant.
share it with everyone
you know who is thinking about installing
recessed lights.
esp if they have cellulose
insulation. the 'dust' from cellulose is
fine newspaper treated with borate. circulating
this 'dust' throughout the house adds to cleaning
time, and if anyone has allergies will exacerbate
the problems.

best of luck

Here are the details for those who may be interested:

Tub: Kohler Expanse (I adore this)
Handheld Showerhead: Grohe Relexa Rustica
All other fixtures: Kohler Kelston
Sink: Kohler Ladena undermount
Vanity: Bertch Morocco in Fawn (?)
Toilet: Kohler Memoirs Stately
Exhaust fan: Panasonic
Heated floor: EasyHeat
Subway & Floor tile: Vallelunga Villa Adriana in Calcatta (porcelain)
Glass tile: Crystal Stone Mosiac in Ivory
Shower Rod: Moen Curved

There were a few glitches along the way, but not many and I am very pleased with the result.

Tub / Shower area:

Close up of niche and subways:

Vanity area with glass shelves to the right:

Detail of backsplash and Kelston faucets:

Kohler Ladena sink

Switches and dials! Thermostat for floor

Floor and my toes (I'm Not a Waitress by OPI):

If I can give you any more info, just ask. I got plenty of help by reading this forum. Thanks for looking!

If the pan can't bear the weight of the wall framed right on top of it, probably the easiest would be to build a 2x6 wall and notch out the bottom of one side of the studs to go over the curb.

Example...let's say your curb is 4" wide and 3" high. Think of the stud standing vertically. You'd want the notch to be tall enough to clear the curb height, say 3-1/8" to 3-1/4". You'd want the notch to be deep enough to cover most of the curb, but not so deep that the stud is too fragile after it is notched. So for this example make the notch 2-3/4" deep, leaving 2-3/4" of the 5-1/2" width of the 2x6 uncut. A 2-3/4" deep notch will cover 2-3/4" of the 4" of curb width, leaving 1-1/4" of the curb exposed.

In the drawing below, think of the "x" as the stud and the "o" as the pan. You can see how the stud is notched out to accept the pan. The "z" is the sole plate for the wall. You'll have two sole plates. One at the bottom of the wall that will sit on the bathroom floor, one at the bottom of the notch that will sit just above the top of the pan's curb. "c" is the cement board and "t" is the tile.

xxxxxxct
xxxxxxct
xxxxxxct
xxxxxxct
xxxzzzct
xxxoooooo
xxxoooooo
xxxooooooooooooooooooooooo
zzzooooooooooooooooooooooo

When you add the cement board and tile to the inside face of the wall, it'll build it out a bit, but a bit of the edge of the curb will remain visible. How much depends on the style of the curb, if the edge is closer to square, or if it has a generous radius, etc. If you use 6-mil poly in that wall, seal the bottom edge of it to the top of the curb.

In this case, your curb is 4" thick, the notch is 2-3/4" deep, leaving 1-1/4" of curb exposed. The 1/2" of cement board, the 1/8" thickness of thinset, and the 1/4" thickness of the tile will cover another 7/8ths-inch of the curb, leaving 3/8" of the curb exposed.

One other comment...if the inside edge of the curb is dead straight then all will look fine. If the inside edge of the curb waivers in and out a bit, that 3/8" of curb might go from 3/8", to 1/2", to 1/4", etc, as the curb waffles around. The more your curb waffles in and out, the more curb you need to leave exposed to compensate for the waffling.

With 2x6 framing, this will be a "thick" wall. A great opportunity to use the stud bays for storage. A shower niche on the inside, or a tall "medicine cabinet" or "storage pantry" built in to the stud bays on the opposite side.

White Down Cabinets (Catsam's kitchen, about 1/3 of the way down the page)

*Lancaster White/Antique White cabinets (mamadadapaige's last kitchen...stock cabinet color was Antique White, but her 'matching' trim and baseboards are in BM Lancaster White)

Timid White Cabinets

Linen White Cabinets (halfway down, positano's kitchen - color-matched)

Acadia White Cabinets (jbrodie's kitchen - whiter in sunlight, darker in evening, and almost look two-toned in the varying light)

Mannequin Cream Cabinets (9th pic down, wine bottle on counter)

Seashell Walls (thanks to boxerpups)

I also found a thread where julie92 talked about painting her cabinets Navajo White and was having 2nd thoughts about whether it was too beige or not. Does anyone know if she changed the color or posted finished kitchen pics?

I will have to give the cutting project some thought. If I do the herringbone I want it to be even. Here is a plan view of my idea:

I wonder if the pattern on the floor will be too busy with the other tile. Or am I just over thinking this?

Anyway, for now a simple question--if we choose to do an open shower (no door), what kind of material needs to be used for the walls of the bathroom? Greenboard or regular sheetrock? (I am assuming more steam on the walls if no shower door).

As a bonus: if I go for a tiled shower floor (something I didn't think I'd do), how do I make sure I get a really great install so that I don't end up with a rotten huge structural beam underneath (second floor is held up by this beam).

My guy really likes to do mud pans. And, he said he could epoxy grout (spectralock) the base if I wanted to be really sure. He also has mentioned redguard, and liners. So, he may be more old school? He also said he really like wonderboard over hardi--and from what I've read, that is fine.

Any help is hugely appreciated. I have read through many old posts, including the one from Mongo where all the pictures on how to do a kerdi shower have disappeared but seems like it'd be a great tutorial...
Thanks!

Sorry if I missed your previous post. I seem to be hit and miss on the forums these days.

I'm a little confused by the "mudbed/liner" comment and the desire to use it in conjunction with a topical membrane. So let me ramble a bit:

I consider "liners" to be the CPE or CPVC thick shower membrane liners, the ones where you use a deck mud preslope, then install the liner over that with a clamping drain, then top the liner with another layer of deck mud, and you tile upon that. If that's what you're asking about, no I wouldn't use a topical membrane on top of all that.

Here's what I consider to be a liner installation.

Now back-tracking a bit: There are folk that use a topical membrane with a clamping drain, but they have to "dish out" the sloped mud bed as it gets close to the drain. It's sometimes referred to as the "divot method". That way the topical membrane will drain to the drain's weep holes. If you don't use a divot, then the raised part of the clamping drain can sort of act like a dam, causing water under the tile to pool around the drain. The area around the drain might appear perpetually wet.

The divot method is not a technique I embrace. Nothing really wrong with it, it's just not my cup of tea. Here is a photo showing the "divot" carved out of the mud base:

Virtually every shower I do is a one-off size or shape, so I'm almost always doing a sloped deck mud base. As to which topical membrane to use, when using Kerdi, I'll do a sloped mud pan and then cover that with Kerdi.

If using Hydroban, then I'll still use a Kerdi drain in the sloped mud floor but then use Hydroban on the floor and walls.

So if you want to use a topical membrane, then no , do not also use a liner within the floor. One membrane is all you want.

Does that help?

In anticipation of renovating our bathrooms in a NYC prewar apartment and having read many posts about tile problems/water leak issues I wondered if Bill V and Mongo could clarify my interpretation of the readings I've done. I don't want to be surprised by the contractor!

Here is my understanding. Am I correct?

1) Bathroom floors: subfloor--then mortar bed--then Cement Backing Unit (CBU)--then lay tiles with thinset and then grout tiles(laticrete)?

2) Shower walls in bathroom with tub: CBU--then membrane (?)--then lay tiles with thinset and then grout tiles (laticrete)?

3) Shower stall floor in bathroom without tub: subfloor--mortar bed--kerdi drain--shower membrane --lay tiles with thinset and then grout tiles (laticrete)?

Thank you in advance for correcting any mistakes and guiding me.

docrck

Closet & Organization
- Plugs in several closets
- Make sure your closet has enough space for both double hung rods, and singles to accomadate long clothes
- Full size broom cupboard in pantry or laundry room to hide all the cleaning items away from sight.
- More closet/linen space than you think you'll need
- Cubbies in mudroom with an outlet in each one
- Motion sensor on pantry and closet lights

Bath
- Plug in master toilet closet for night light
- Outlets inside vanity cabinets (upper and lower) in bathroom for dryer etc.
- Heated towels racks
- Don't caulk the bottom of your toilet to the tile to hide potential leaks
- Make use of the pony wall in a bathroom by turning it into storage.
- Vac pans for hair
- Appliance garage on counter

Outdoor
- Run conduit under the driveway for future wiring or plumbing needs
- Prewire speakers both indoor and outdoor
- Ensure you have hose outlets and power on all 4 sides of your house, and on top of any raised areas
- Hot/cold outdoor water is good for washing pets
- Motion sensor pre-wire for selected exterior lights
- Keypad entry on garage door (Keypad entry on front door is great as well)
- Gas line to grill

Kitchen
- Plugs in kitchen pantry for charging, or for items that may end up living there
- Recess the fridge
- With wide islands put cabinets on the both sides. While they are not easy to get to, they are good for storing seldomly used items.
- Built in paper towel holder
- Custom storage organization in kitchen drawers
- Warming drawer in dining room
- Pantry entrance near both kitchen and garage
- Custom shelves and a place to plug in appliances in pantry
- Plugs above cabinets for Christmas lighting
- Set up for both gas and electric appliances
- Pantry door on swivel
- Pantry light on motion sensor
- Copper tubing for your ice maker from the freezer and until it's out of the kitchen wall
- Drawer microwave
- Knife drawer
- Pull-out garbage/recycling/laundry (for dirty dish towels/napkins/bibs!)
- Paper towel holder in drawer slot
- Drawers for all lower cabinets (more efficient use of space)
- Two soap pumps at sink (one for handsoap, one for dish soap)
- Easy-access place to store frequently used appliances
- place to hang hand towels & aprons

Electrical & Plumbing
- Prewire security system & cameras
- Run wire and prepare roof for future solar
- Run a 2" PVC pipe up from the basement to the attic for future wiring needs, some suggested double conduits.
- Seperate 20z circut with outlets at waist height in garage to plug in tools
- Seperate 20z ciructe for TV and a/v equipment
- Identify areas for low voltage can/rack
- Pre-wring for music and speakers, inside and outside
- iPad controllers in the walls to control whole house music systems
- Pre-wire for generator to essential areas
- Carbon monozide unit on the wall upstairs
- Make sure plumbing in bathrooms are done correctly. One commenter's toilet was placed too close to the tub pipes so I couldn't get the deeper tub because they didn't allow room.
- Cast iron pipes for the plumbing drops from the second floor cuts down on noise
- Take pictures of all the walls before Sheetrock went up so you knew where all the wiring was in case you needed to add or change anything.
- Include a 220V to garage (tools, future electric car etc)
- Measure the location of anything under the slab, and various utilities out in the yard.
- Run an electrical line with a few floor outlets, especially since we have very open floor plan and couch sets are not against a wall
- Plumbed for a built-in drinking fountain,

Lighting
- Light switch to the attic in the hallway (and remember lights in attic in general)
- Solar tubes in areas that don�t get natural sunlight
- In cabinet lights and outside lights on timers
- Make sure you check the cost ratings of ceiling fans
- Check all remotes for ceiling fans prior to construction completion
- 3 way switches where helpful
- Master switch from master that controls all exterior lights
- A master switch at each exit (Front, back or garage), that turns off all of the power to the switches/lights in the house, so that you can turn off all lights without going to each room and/or light switch.

Master
- 4 plug outlets near the bed in the master
- A light switch at the head of your bed so you can turn out the light once you are in bed.

Holiday
- Plugs under eaves for holiday lights, with a switch inside to turn on and off.
- Enough storage for Christmas decorations
- Seasonal closet with hangers for wreaths, and space for rubbermaid storage boxes.
- Plugs for Christmas lights: over cabinets, in stairway, in porch ceiling, under eaves

Heating, Cooling, and Vacuums
- Central Vac with vac pans, if you have hardwood floors - get a Hideahose
- Plan where furnace vents will go instead of letting the builder decide
- Hepa filtration for allegergy sufferers
- WarmFloors heating

Overall
- Read Myron Ferguson has a book out, "Better Houses, Better Living"
- Receptacles for fire extinguishers. Maybe plan some cutouts so they are flush to the wall.
- Where possible pocket doors
- Secondary dryer lint trap http://www.reversomatic.com/category/Accessories-Catalogue/Lint-Traps.html
- Soundproofing where needed
- Stairs from garage to basement
- A phone by the door leading into the garage for those pesky calls when you are getting in or out of the car
- An inside button to open and close your garage door for when guests arrive and its raining.
- Additional support during framing on the top side of windows for curtains
- Power outage flashlights and keep in outlets around around house. Recess these into the space with each fire extinguisher.
- Mailbox sensor to alert you whenever your mailbox is opened so that you're not running out of the house checking for mail when it's not there.
- Ensure builders don't "box" off spaces, where storage or shelving could go
- Make copies of manuals prior to installation and give the builder the copies so you can keep the originals.
- Minimal walls, and lots of windows.
- A laundry room. Not just a hall, or closet, a room.
- Spindles and hand rail made that can be removed for moving furniture
- Handicapped accessible.
- Plan an elevator shaft in case you want to install one later, in the meantime it will serve as storage closets.

Pets
- Plan a specific place for your dog food,
- Place for the kitty box,
- Place for dogs to be bathed
- place for dog crates
- Exhaust fan in laundry room for litterbox

Regional considerations:
- an ante-room, with coatracks and shoe storage, and a way to keep the heat in.
- An entrance to the basement from outside for salt delivery, repair men etc so they don't track thru your house.
- storm shelter to weather the threats your area faces.
- a mosquito system http://www.mistaway.com/watch-the-mistaway-video.html and http://www.mosquitonix.com/mosquitonix
- little covered niche for bear spray at/near each entry.
- Drain in the garage to get rid of the excess water quicker from vehicles after it snows
- Pest line (brand name Taexx) a small tube is run around the perimeter of the home through the framing, and then pest control can spray within it.

A door at least slightly wider tan the opening is needed if there is any trim pattern to the door (like panels).

You need to trim off some of the 'show' edge to center the decoration while leaving some of the pocket edge in the pocket when the door is closed.

Stop molding may also be needed on the jamb opposite the pocket to provide privacy.

I do not use the typical plastic guides to prevent door sway (they will scratch the face of the door eventually).

Mount a short section of aluminum angle on the floor of the pocket and cut a mating groove in the bottom of the door to prevent sway.

There are ways and there are ways. This post shows a couple of ways to do it.

Shower is a walk-in, about 5' by 7'. Door is at a 45 degree angle.

Walk in to the shower and on the short wall to the immediate right are two supply valves, the lower one supplies the wall mounted handheld, the upper supplies an overhead 12" rainshower head.

Moving counterclockwise from that wall, the long wall on the right is on an exterior wall, nothing but tile.

The short back wall has a 2-shelf niche, about 36" wide and 30" tall. The lower niche space is 15" high, the shelf itself is 4" thick, the upper niche space is 11" high.

The last wall, the long wall to the left as you enter, has the wall-mounted hand-held. If I recall, the sliding bar is 40" tall.

Tile backer? I prefer cement board on the walls. Wonderboard or Durock. I used Wonderboard on these walls. The ceiling and niche is done in Hardie, as Hardie is less brittle so for me it's easier to cut into narrow strips to trim out the niche, and not as prone to snapping when installing full sheets overhead.

So far I have
- Plugs in kitchen pantry for charging, or for items that may end up living there
- Full size broom cupboard in pantry or laundry room to hide all the cleaning items away from sight.
- Solar tubes in areas that don�t get natural sunlight
- Prewire security system
- Run wire and prepare roof for future solar
- Central Vac with vac pans

Any others to add?

I seriously will throw a party when I find that darned label maker! Oh the things I want to tag in my newly remodeled house....

I should take a new pic now that I've added my paprikas in the drawer. I'll link to the company, Specialty Bottle, below. Badgergirl and I both used the smaller TCT4 tins and the larger TCT8.

Love yours!! Your more petite drawer actually snuggles the tins better than mine. And wait until you're in the middle of a trenches cooking a big meal. You'll get a thrill from being able to see all your spices laid out where grabbing and measuring takes a mere second. You'll wonder how you ever got by reaching into a dark upper cab with toppling towers of spices.

And thanks for the kind shout-out. I can't believe I actually helped someone! You brightened the end of a sad day full of good-byes and made me smile. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Specialty Bottle spice tins with clear lids

And so you can see what I mean about lots of storage, here is a pic with the drawers open (that white thing in the middle drawer is a big bread machine):

The "Costco" snack drawer is one that is constantly accessed. We call it the "Costco drawer" because it generally has those huge Costco snack bags, popcorn, store bought cookies, and like items.

We are very happy with how our banquette bench turned out.

Here are some of the details.

Granite - Giallo Ornamental
Backsplash - (my least favorite part of the kitchen but that's another story) is Olympia - Cristalo Collection Light Beige with Creama Marfil
Sink: Blanco Silgranit in cafe brown (LOVE IT!!)
Faucet: Delta (Addison)
Island Lights: Origina Canada Lighting
Floors: Laurentian Hardwood, Legacy Series in Oak Coffee
Appliances: Fridge is Samsung Counterdepth. Slide-in range, dishwasher and microwave are Kenmore from Sears

When we bought this house 12 years ago I was so thrilled with my new golden oak kitchen. We loved it so much we ripped out the linoleum flooring and added more golden oak hardwood! The cabinets were in perfect shape which was another reason we chose to reface. It was hard to rip out perfectly good hardwood but I LOVE my new dark hardwood floors. The constant dusting & sweeping is worth it.

Here are a few shots of the BEFORE:

From Kitchen Reno

From Kitchen Reno

From Kitchen Reno

That backsplash did NOT come off easy...

From Kitchen Reno

During the reface:

From Kitchen Reno

From Kitchen Reno

And now the AFTER.

From Kitchen Reno

From Kitchen Reno

From Kitchen Reno

From Kitchen Reno

Very hard to get a good photo of the backsplash. I don't love it but it looks better in person than it does in photographs.

From Kitchen Reno

From Kitchen Reno

The drum lights over the island. I have a matching one for the kitchen table that will be put up whenever I get around to buying a kitchen table!

From Kitchen Reno

Now I'm on a quest to find the perfect bar stools, kitchen table and furniture for the adjacent family room. It never ends!

was thinking about your plan , and came up with this alternative ...

let me know your thoughts , please ...

We couldn't decide...so we have light and dark trim throughout the house. Here are some pics...

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

From .House Pics

Controls and Diverters
This may be almost impossible to thoroughly attack because there are so many variations in what people want and in what different manufacturers offer.

In general…

You need a volume and temperature control. You can buy just the valve body, which is the chunk of expensive brass that gets buried in the wall, and buy a separate trim kit, or you can buy a package that includes the valve body and the trim kit. The trim kit is the bright sparkly metallic knob/lever/escutcheon bling that you overspend for so your friends and neighbors will go "oooooh" and "aaaaah".

If you buy a pressure balanced valve, the valve in and of itself will turn on the water and allow you to control the temperature. If you buy a thermostatic valve, most valve bodies have two controllers on them, one to control volume and one to control temperature. Read the fine print though, because some thermostatic bodies just control temperature. You’ll need a separate valve body to provide volume control.

Stops. Some valves come with "stops" some do not. What are stops? Stops stop water flow at the valve itself so the valve can be taken apart without having to turn the water off to that branch circuit or to the whole house. They are normally incorporated onto the hot and cold water inlets on the valve body, and they can be opened or closed with a screw driver.

While I’m on this, I’ll also mention that some valves might mention having a "stop screw" to limit the maximum temperature. While a pressure balancing or a thermostatic valve will prevent you from being scalded if someone flushes a toilet, there is nothing to prevent someone from being scalded by setting the valve to allow 130 degree water to pass through it. Your first step is to lower the temperature on your water heater to about 120 degrees. For valves that have these stop screws, it’s then a simple matter of setting a screw that limits how far the temperature knob can be rotated. What you do is rotate the knob to set the water to the max temp that you’d ever want out of the shower, then you turn the set screw until it bottoms out. It will now prevent the temperature knob from turning past (hotter than) it’s existing position.

Downstream of that volume/temp control is where things get dicey. You can have a simple setup where your V/T control just runs to a single shower head. Easy to do. You can have a standard tub setup with a shower head and a tub spigot, where the diverter can be a lever or push button that sends water either to the tub spigot below or to the shower head above. Also easy to do.

If you want to supply water to more than one shower head, to a shower head and body sprays, or to both, either simultaneously or one at a time, then you’ll need more chunks of expensive brass to bury in your wall.

If you want separate controls and the ability to have differing temperatures come out of differing fixtures, then it’s easiest to go with multiple V/T controllers. One V/T controller for the shower heads, for example, and a separate V/T controller for the body sprays. This allows you to run different volumes and different temperatures out of the different heads. Your shower head can be 105 degrees and your body sprays 110 degrees.

Remember, the more hot water that you want to come out of your shower, the larger your supply tubing and valve bodies need to be, and the larger your water heater has to be. For sizing purposes, most shower heads and body sprays have a gallon per minute rating applied to them. In theory and planning only, if your hand held shower head is, for example, rated at 3gpm, your rain shower head rated at 4gpm, and each of your 8 body spray heads is rated at 1gpm, and you want to run them all at the same time…you’re looking at a flow of 15gpm. You need a water heater that can supply you with 15gpm of hot water, then you need supply tubing that can get 15gpm of hot water from your water heater to your bathroom, and you need valve/diverter bodies that can pass the required amount of water through them so you get decent flow out of each fixture.

Typical plumbing is 1/2", typical valves are 1/2". For high volume situations, 3/4" tubing and 3/4" supply valves may be required. Out of the valves you can usually run 1/2" tubing to your shower heads and body spray heads.

Back to the hardware. If you want a shower head and body sprays, and want to run either or both off of one valve, then you’ll want a diverter valve.

Diverter valves can be anything and everything. They can be simple A/B valves, where you can run the water through the valve to only "A", your shower head, or only to "B", your body spray heads. But not both at the same time.

Which leads to the A/B/AB valve, where you can send water only to "A", your shower head, or only to "B", your body spray heads, or to "AB", simultaneously to both.

And from here things go wild. There are A/B/C/AB/AC/BC/ABC valves, and things just can go on and on from there.

Diverter valves are usually described as having a certain number of "ports". 3-port, 4-port, 5-port, etc. Realize that one port is where the water goes in to the valve, the other ports are where the water comes out. So an A/B/C valve that has three outlets might be listed as a "4-port valve", with the fourth port being the inlet.

Not all 4-port valves can do A/B/C/AB/AC/BC/ABC, you’ll need to look through the description to find out where it can send the water to. A 4-port valve might just be an A/B/C valve, or it might be a more versatile A/B/C/AB/AC/BC valve. Read its description.

If you can’t get the customization you need from a single volume/temperature controller and a single diverter, you can run multiple diverters off of one V/T controller, or multiple diverters off of multiple V/T controllers. It all depends on how much brass you can afford, how much water you can supply, and if you have the space to hide all that brass in your walls.

Diverters can be knobs, levers, push buttons, the choice is yours. But do remember that you need to match up the valve body to the desired trim kit so that the bling that your neighbors can see will fit on the expensive chunk of brass that they can’t see. You don’t want your plumber to bury that expensive chunk of brass in your wall, then tile, then find out later that your bling won’t fit. Very depressing.

It’s all about reading the fine print.

Mongo

The sort of where, what, and why of pressure-balanced versus thermostatic:
Pressure-balanced or thermostatic temperature control valves are code-required in bathroom plumbing because they eliminate potential scalding and cold water shocks that can occur in a shower.

If you are using the shower and a toilet is flushed, as the toilet uses cold water to refill the tank, the pressure in the cold water line drops a bit below what it was when just the shower was running. If you had a non-balancing valve, you’d still get the same amount of hot water that you originally were getting, but with the drop in pressure in the cold water line you’d have less cold water coming out of your shower head, creating a potential for scalding. Vice-versa, if someone turns on a hot-water faucet elsewhere in the house, the hot water pressure drops and you get a shower of mostly cold water.

A pressure-balanced shower valve is designed to compensate for changes in water pressure. It has a mechanism inside that moves with a change in water pressure to immediately balance the pressure of the hot- and cold-water inputs. These valves keep water temperature within a couple degrees of the initial setting. They do it by reducing water flow through either the hot or cold supply as needed. Because pressure balanced valves control the temp by reducing the flow of water through the valve, if your plumbing supply is already struggling to keep up with the three shower heads and nine body sprays that you have running in your shower, if a pressure balancing valve kicks in and chokes down the water supply to keep you from getting scalded you could end up with insufficient water flow out of the heads in a multiple shower head setup. When it comes to volume control, in terms of being able to turn on the water a little or a lot, for the most part pressure-balanced valves are full-on when water is flowing or full-off when the valve is closed. Flow-wise, think of them as having no middle ground.

Where flow and volume control are important, as in a shower that requires a high volume of water, a thermostatic valve may be the better choice. They also control the temperature, but they do not reduce the amount of water flowing through the valve in doing so. Thermostatic valves are also common with 3/4" inlets and outlets, so they can pass more water through the valve than a 1/2" pressure balancing valve.

Which should you choose?
In a larger multi-outlet master shower, while a 1/2" thermostatic valve may suffice, a 3/4" thermostatic valve might be the better choice. But it does depend on the design of your shower and the volume of water that can be passed through your houses supply lines. In a secondary bathroom, or in a basic master where you have only one head, or the common shower head/tub spout diverter valve, a 1/2" pressure balancing valve would be fine.

If you want individual control and wanted multiple valves controlling multiple heads, then you could use multiple 1/2" valves instead of one 3/4" valve and all would be just fine.

What do the controls on the valve actually control?
While it may vary, a pressure balanced valve is normally an "all in one" valve with only one thing you can adjust…the temperature. The valve usually just has one rotating control (lever or knob) where you turn the water on, and by rotating it you set the water to a certain temperature. Each time you turn the valve on you’ll have to set it to the same spot to set it to your desired temperature. For the most part you really don’t control the volume, just the temperature. With the valve spun a little bit, you'll get 100% flow but it will be all cold water. With the valve spun all the way, you’ll get 100% flow, but it will be all hot water. Somewhere int eh middle you’ll find that Goldilocks "just right" temperature, and it’ll be at…you guessed it…100% flow. So with a pressure balancing valve, you control the temp, but when the valve is open, it’s open.

A thermostatic valve can be all inclusive in terms of control (volume and temp) or just be temperature controlling. If it’s just temperature controlling, you will need a separate control for volume or flow. Example, with an all inclusive you’ll have two "controllers" (knobs or levers) on the valve, one to set the temperature and a separate one to set the volume. In this case you can set the temp as you like it, then use the volume control lever to have just a trickle of Goldilocks water come out of the valve, or you can open it up and have full flow of Goldilocks water coming out of the valve. You can leave the temp where you like it when you turn the volume off after you’re done showering. The next time you shower, turn the volume on, the temperature is already set. Some thermostatic valves are just temperature valves with no volume control. You’ll need another valve/control to set the volume. Read the product description carefully to see what you're getting.

What size valve should I get?
Yes, valves actually come in different sizes. The size refers to the size of the inlet/outlet nipples on the valve. For a basic shower, a 1/2" valve will suffice. For a larger multi-head arrangement, a 3/4" valve would be better. Realize that you’ll need a water heater that can supply the volume of heated water you want coming out of the heads, so don’t forget that when you build or remodel. Also realize that if you’re remodeling and have 1/2" copper running to your shower, capping 1/2" copper supply tubing with a 3/4" valve provide you with much benefit as the 1/2" tubing is the limiting factor. You can, however, cap 3/4" supply tubing with a 1/2" valve or a 3/4" valve.

Is one better than another?
Thermostatic valves are "better" in that with them you can control both volume of flow and temperature, so you have more control, and they hold the temperature to a closer standard (+/- 1 degree). They also perform better if you are running multiple outlets in the shower, as they do not choke down the amount of water in order to control the temperature. But you pay for that added flow and added control. Pressure balancing valves can be had for about $100-$200, thermostatic valves can be twice that amount. And more.

Will I suffer with a pressure-balancing valve?
For what it’s worth, when I built my house over 10 years ago I put pressure-balancing valves in my own house. While I have two outlets in my shower (sliding bar mounted hand-held on the wall and an overhead 12" rain shower head on the ceiling), I have a two separate pressure-balancing valves, one valve for each head. With both heads going in the shower, I notice no loss of flow in the shower when the toilet is flushed and the sink faucet is turned on simultaneously. I also notice no change in temperature. So they work for me.

If you are remodeling, if you have your existing sink running and you flush the toilet and notice a drop in volume coming out of the sink, then a thermostatic valve might be the better choice even if you're not having a multi-head setup installed.

If, as part of the remodel, you plan on running new supply lines through your house to the new bath, then properly sized runs will take care of that flow restriction and you can probably do a pressure balancing valve instead of a thermostatic.

So in a house with tricky plumbing, or with a restricted water supply, or with multiple outlets running off of one supply valve, a thermostatic valve might be the safer choice.

Mongo

Type in what is red. The black is the direct link you paste in from where you uploaded the picture.

Using shims is pretty much a guarantee for squeaks on stairs when the treads are set directly on the stringers. Because the weight of a person is increased on stairs as weight is on less area per square inch and the treads have only three mounting points which allows more movement.

Installing finished treads on foundation treads(2by material or even plywood) is much better. Install those with screws through the material into the stringers with the proper wood screws.

Using roofing felt or rosin paper under the finished treads prevents squeaks.

To install the finished treads, use the proper wood screws to screw up through the foundation material into the bottom of the treads. Or install the screws from the top and use plugs to cover the countersunk screw holes.

We reglazed our old tub once in our city apartment and totally regretted it. It started peeling and looked terrible. Had to have it redone before we sold.
Should have just replaced it for the money we spent.

On the whole, the layout looks pretty livable tho there are a few things you might want to consider altering.

First, noise from 2 story great room and upstairs study will bleed over. Depending on how you plan to use the study area, that may or may not bother you. You should also read up on issues involved with maintaining a comfortable temperature both upstairs and down where there is an overlook into a two story room. And, since you mention a new baby, you might also want to consider the safety factor involved in having a couple of balconies overlooking the great room and foyer when your infant starts walking (and climbing!) You might decide that it would be better to extend the "sloping ceiling" that is on the far right hand side of the great room clear across and then use the area above it (and next to the study) for extra storage.

Second, I personally don't like having to walk through a laundry room to get from the garage into the house. With kids, somehow the laundry never all seems to get done. (I'm sure you're finding this out!) So, consider if you and some friends are planning to go out shopping together. Everyone meets at your house with the intention of all riding together in your car. Your babysitter arrives and your friends put down their coffee cups, gather up their purses and you all head for your garage...and THEN you remember that big pile of dirty laundry on the floor of your laundry room that is waiting to go into the washing machine! It's one thing to escort a friend thru your mudroom with scattered shoes and jackets. Another thing altogether to expect them to step around and over piles of dirty laundry. With a house this size and this nice, I'd expect a separate "destination" laundry room.

If you made the garage a couple of feet longer by pushing the back wall back, you could then also push the back wall of the laundry room back a couple of feet. Then, if you gave up that walk-in pantry, you would have room enough for a separate laundry room in the back half of the current laundry room space and a mud room with cubbies in the front half. Like this:

This would also allow you to make bedroom 3 a couple of feet longer so that it it a bit closer in size to bedroom #2. If/when you have two kids, you don't one child to be jealous of his/her sibling's much larger room.

You may not want to give up the walk-in pantry but, as big as the kitchen is and with as much storage space as it has, you may not really need a walk-in pantry anyway. Especially since you have a storage space under the stairs where you can stash some items that might otherwise go into a walk-in pantry.

I'm a bit concerned that that island is smack dab in the middle of the kitchen "work triangle" so you might find you spend a lot of time walking around it to get to things you need. You might want to run the kitchen past the folks on the kitchen forum. They're whizzes at making kitchens truly functional!

Is that an elevator next to bedrooms 2 and 4? I can't quite read what the plan says. And, if it is an elevator, I'd have expected them to list that as a key feature on the plan specs page and they don't. So while it looks like an elevator, I'm not sure that it is. If it is an elevator, you're going to love that feature!!! When your little one gets old enough to push the elevator buttons (or has friends coming over to play that might do so), you might want to replace the door knobs on the outer elevator doors with locking knobs that need a key to be opened from the outside.

My 4 year old nephew came to visit at Christmas, got into the elevator by himself and opened the inner door (gate) while the car was between floors. Of course the car stopped immediately (as it is supposed to do) and there isn't enough room between the door and the wall for even a child to fall out. But he panicked and started shrieking and couldn't hear us telling him to close the gate so the elevator would start back up again. Had to go in and rescue him - which fortunately is pretty easy to do with a home elevator. But I'm not sure my SIL has quite forgive me yet for the trauma her baby endured. If your child grows up with the elevator, he/she probably won't play with it that much - but his/her friends probably will want to. So...

Other than those few things, I really like the plan. You picked a nice one. Go build it!

Are there any major negatives we should be wary of when using a pre-drawn plan? And specifically, what tweaks or improvements could be made on this plan we have picked out (tentatively)?

What we were looking for in a home plan:

Traditional / Craftsman / Country Styling
3000 Square Feet
Room for visiting grandparents with private bathroom attached
Bonus room
Laundry room off the garage that could be used for mud room
Functional front porch
Office

Thank you all so much.

Front Render

Rear Render

Main Floor

Upper Floor

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to the House Plan

We put in an Ultramax in 2003 and loved it, but the Aquia literally (pun intended) blows it out of the water. The seat's another $60, though! Pay attention to the install instructions with the clearances and line requirements; they're different than the standard install.

Don't skimp on the toilet or the tub. Like your kitchen sink, they take a lot of abuse, and penny-pinching on them usually ends up biting you in the a$$.

You can save lots of money on sinks, cabinets, lights, accessories (towel racks, TP holders, etc.) and flooring if you shop carefully and rigorously. Always remember that hired labor is your biggest component: my sheet vinyl flooring was less than $200 for the highest quality level, but the labor to install it was $500.

Check granite stores for remnants if you want a touch of stone bling for your countertop.

Use Moen or Delta or American Standard in the mid-price lines and you'll hit the 'sweet spot' for reliability, cost and performance.

I have a $30 Waterpik showerhead in our main-floor bathroom that is superior to the $300 Hansgrohe showerspray in our master suite in every way. The Hansgrohe is a huge disappointment; it is simply not worth the extra money for the name. The Hansgrohe is connected to a Delta showerfaucet, the latter of which works very well and saved us another $300 for a Hansgrohe faucet.

I mean really, can anybody look at a showerfaucet handle and tell who made it? Of course not. So skip the very cheap and the very expensive, and stay in the middle for your plumbing fixtures.

Don't forget stores like Target or even dollar stores for accessory stuff. And hardware stores like Ace and OSH often have great sales on homeware in January and February.

If you use acrylic or fiberglass for a showerpan, MAKE SURE the bottom is properly supported. A lot of people skimp on this and it's the worst thing you can do. These two materials can't take any flexing so it has to be solidly set. Make sure you pay attention to mfg's instructions for approved cleaning products. Using the wrong cleaner can strip the top gloss layer off and you'll never get the material to look clean again for long.

Easy to replace:
- bath cabinets
- sinks
- faucets (like to like only)
- countertops
- lights
- showerheads
- exhaust fans

More costly/time-consuming to replace:
- anything that needs a plumbing or electrical change
- Tubs
- Shower stalls and pans, depending on material
- flooring

The GF gel has a much nicer look, feel and finish.

And is way easier to work with. I would drive 100 miles to use GF gel over Polyshades.

Your kitchen situation sounds a lot like mine was.
Before:

After:

I have posted a way long 'how to' a bunch of times here. Search engine isn't pulling it up, so with apologies for the repetition here's more than you need to know:

It is a very doable project. You just need time, $50 in supplies, and patience. No skill.

My cabinets were frameless, good condition and good layout. But the finish had gone orange and ugly, with the oak graining too busy for me. Cabinet were 18 years old, very poorly finished oak veneered slab doors. Plain with no crevices. They didn't even take the doors off to finish them!!! No stain or finish was even put on the hinge side edges. Bad workmanship.

I looked into changing out cabinets, but that was way too much money, since my layout was OK. Painting didn't seem right because the doors were plain slabs. I considered new doors but that still meant a lot of money. For a few years I tried to figure a way to add molding toward a mission look, but the rounded door edges made that impossible. Then trolling in a kitchen emporium showroom this last year I noticed dark wood slab doors, kind of like mine, but darker. That was the answer.

First I tried Minwax Polyshades. Dicey product. Hard to brush on neatly, then gummy, then seemed to leave a sticky tacky residue. I did a thread on the Woodworking Forum "Evil Polyshades to the Rescue" which elicited a lot of conflicting "expert" opinions and arguments that one must strip to bare wood. (Thread may still be around as that Forum moves slowly.) Long ago when I was young and stupid I properly stripped acres of woodwork in an old Victorian. Never again! Jennifer-in-Clyde (in the same boat) and I stumbled around on that woodworking thread to get to this method.

SHOPPING LIST:
-electric screwdriver or screw drill bits
-mineral spirits to clean the years of gunk off the cabinet
-miracle cloths (optional)
-fine sandpaper
-box-o-disposable gloves from Walgreen’s or the like
-old socks or rags for wiping on coats
-disposable small plastic bowls or plates, and plastic spoons or forks for stirring/dipping (optional)
-General Finishes water base Espresso stain (pretty thick, but not quite a gel) NOTE: This one may not even be a needed step if the Java gets it dark enough.
-General Finishes Java gel stain (poly based)
-General Finishes clear top coat (poly based)
-old sheets or plastic sheeting or newspaper

Rockler woodworking stores are a good place to find the General Finish products. Or some larger hardware stores. Quart of each was more than enough for my 60 doors and drawer fronts and goes for $12-14 at Rockler. There are smaller sizes if your project is small.

SETUP AND PLANNING:
You will need a place to work and leave wet doors to dry overnight - I set up 2 spaces: garage for sanding/cleaning and basement for staining/sealing. Use newspaper or plastic to protect the surface and floor. Figure out how you will prop doors to dry. Plan blocks of 20-30-minutes for sanding/cleaning bundles of, say, 6 doors at a time. Then just 10-minute sessions to wipe on coats. The coats will need to dry for about 24 hours, so figure that each section of the kitchen will be doorless for 4 or 5 days. Divide the job up into manageable chunks.

PREPARATION:
Take off doors and drawer fronts. Try using screw drill bits on an electric drill if you don't have an electric screwdriver. Remove all the hardware. *Mark alike things so you know what goes back where.* Clean the doors thoroughly. Not with TSP but with something pretty strong and scrub well. There's years of grease there.
Sand LIGHTLY, just a scuffing really. Just enough to break the finish and give it some tooth, no more than a minute a door. A miracle cloth is good for getting most of the dust off. Then wipe well with mineral spirits to clean and get the last of the gunk off.

STAINING:
In order, we're gonna put on:
-General Finishes Espresso water based stain (1 coat) - optional
-General Finishes Java gel stain (couple coats)
-General Finishes Clear urethane gel topcoat in satin (couple coats)

But first put on work clothes, tie up your hair and pop your phone into a baggie nearby (you know it will ring). Glove up.
***First do a trial on the back of a door and check if Java coats alone suffice. If the Java alone is to your liking, just skip the Espresso and return it.

Open and stir up the Espresso stain, then spoon some into a plastic bowl. Close the tin so it doesn't get contaminated. Slide a sock over your hand, grab a gob of Espresso and smear it on. Wipe off the excess. Let it dry well - overnight is good. It will lighten as it dries, but then darken again with any other coat or sealer. A second coat might result in a deeper tone at the end - though it seemed like the second coat was just dissolving the first. YMMV.

Repeat with Java gel. This is thicker and poly based (*not water cleanup!*= messier). Color is a rich dark reddish brown. Wait for the second coat to judge if the color is deep enough for you. I wanted a very deep dark color, like melted dark chocolate. So I went pretty heavy on these layers. I did not sand between coats.
Repeat with clear gel topcoat. This will give you the strength you need in a kitchen.

Do the same process with the cabinet sides, face and toe kick area. Might need to divide that up also, and stagger the work: doors/cabinets/doors/etc.

NOTE: The cloth or socks used for the gels are very flammable! Collect and store them in a bucket of water as you go and then dispose of them all properly.

FINISHING AND REASSEMBLY:
I suggest you put the doors back up after one clear coat, then you can check everything over and darken an area with more Java if needed, followed by a clear coat. When it all looks right, go over it all again with another clear gel coat. Or two. (See my follow up notes below). Install your hardware.
The feel of the finish should be wonderful, really smooth and satiny. Color deep and rich - way nicer than that faded, beat 80's oak color.

FINAL THOUGHTS:
Definitely experiment first with the back of a door or drawer front to be sure it is the look you want. Yes, this takes a couple days to coat, dry, recoat, dry, etc but you may discover that the Java alone does the trick and this will save you a LOT of work. Front-end patience is worth it.

This is a pretty easy project to do. Hard to screw it up. The worst is the prep - relative to that, smearing on the coats is cake. I had over 60 pieces (big kitchen) AND island sides and book shelves, etc and I admit I lost steam partway through. Had to push myself through the last of it. But it was worth it. Folks think I got all new cabinets - it looks that good.

Now the finish will not be as durable as factory finish - go at it with a Brillo pad and you WILL abrade it. But it has held up pretty well. And after a year of pretty heavy use, I had just a few nicks, easily repaired.
(6/08 Add: I'm now (18 months later) seeing some wear near the pulls on the most used cabinets. Will add color with Java if it bugs me.)
(9/09 Add: Never did bother to touch up those couple spots. Bugging me a bit more, and I will get to it soon. It is the drinking glass cabinet and the snack cabinet, LOL. And the garbage pull-out. The rest still looks perfect. Lesson: Use an extra coat or 2 of gel on the way frequently used cabinets.)
(12/09 Add: I did finally touch up the spots that were worn. Used just Java to get the color right, then a bunch of top coats. Looks perfect again.)

I added smashing hardware, raised my pass-through, resurfaced the Corian (also simple but messy and tedious) and replaced the DW and sink. It looks gorgeous to me and I really enjoy the space - how it sits all quiet, clean and serene, then gets all crazy with the food and folks du jour. I couldn't be happier, especially that I didn't have to work another year just to pay for the update!!

Link to cabinets in progress: http://photobucket.com/albums/b45/celticm00n/kitchen cosmetic update project/kitchen during/

Link to almost finished cabinet pix: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/celticm00n/kitchen cosmetic update project/finished bit by bit/?start=20

Good luck with your project!! And let me know if you try it and how it turns out.

Here is a link that might be useful: more before during and after pix

My 10 "must haves" for staging any room are sparkling cleanliness, neutral paint, window treatments, artwork, lamps, books, pillows, throws, candles, and greenery. Exterior "do haves" are a clear house number that is easy to find and well lit along with a well maintained yard and some seasonal color in a pot or bed by the mailbox/drive area. Being winter, that means cabbage and pansies for most of the country or even a plain small evergreen if it's too far north for even pansies.

The 10 "don't haves" are personal pictures, religious pictures, pet furniture, bright colors, more than 3 large accessories, large TVs that are not wall mounted, beanbags or other "dorm" looking furniture, rugs on top of hardwoods, crammed closets and cupboards, and broken home items that convey.

I see way too many homes "staged" for sale that skip artwork on the wall and that's a big mistake. Artwork is a super cheap way of making a space feel "homey" and pulled together. You don't want a gallery wall, but every room should have at least one piece of artwork of some kind in it. It adds life and color without too much personality. One large piece is much better than several small. A room feels unfinished without window treatments and something on the walls. It can be as simple as the "recycled" paintings that Holly suggested, or it can be simple fabric panels stapled over stretcher bars. If you use the right hardware to hang it, you will never even punch a detectable hole in the wall. The Command adhesive hangers are perfect for this application.

Add in the larger lamps as suggested and place a couple of books at the bedside. Put a throw across the bottom of both the beds. Layers equate to a luxurious feeling. You also want a plant or flowers in both bedrooms. A small cachepot of African violets or a sanseveria or other hardy plant can work. Good quality artificial can work, but it should not be obviously fake.

Here's another idea moving as few walls and plumbing as possible. It's great that you have so many possibilites. I should have asked where the sloping walls were going to be raised upstairs. I like your upstairs bathroom better, but didn't want to duplicate it. Also, I wanted to make the master sinks wrap the wall, but the software wouldn't put anything in the corner.

I didn't add a half bath downstairs. If that bedroom is just guest room, one bath should be ok. You could even put a door into the bath from that bedroom so your guests didn't have to come out into the hall.

Here is what upstairs looks like now:

From GWfloorplans

Here is a proposal:

From GWfloorplans

My questions:
How would you finish out, ultimately, that master space? Would you keep the hard line wall of the 15x20 addition as the space boundry (with a 1' wall of storage in the hall bath), or would you jog the wall, as drawn and put in a 2' wall of hall bath storage?

And, how would you do the closet/bath? I am struggling a bit with that. We can have windows on the S and W walls, but not the E wall except right at the very end of it (like I've drawn) due to a cantilever in that wall.

Inspiration comes heavily from Summerfield and Bevangel's suggestions as seen in this post:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/build/msg0919404218347.html?15

With apologies for the length of this, I'm just gonna paste the whole bit here for you.

You are welcome to this writeup I did a while back. A couple people tried
it and reported all went well. You just need time, maybe $50 in supplies, and
patience. No skill.

Here's more than you need to know:

My cabinets are frameless, good condition and good layout. But the finish
had gone orange and ugly, with the oak graining too busy for me. Cabinets
are 18 years old, very poorly finished oak veneered slab doors. Plain with
no crevices. They didn't even take the doors off to finish them!!! No stain
or finish on the hinge side edges.
Cheezey, huh?

I looked into changing out cabinets, but that was way too much money, since
my layout was OK. Painting didn't seem right because the doors were plain
slabs. I considered new doors but that still meant a lot of money. For a few
years I tried to figure a way to add molding toward a mission look, but the
rounded door edges made that impossible. Then trolling in a kitchen
emporium showroom this last year I noticed dark wood slab doors, kind like
mine, but darker. That was the answer.

First I tried Minwax Polyshades. Dicey product. Hard to brush on neatly,
then gummy, then seemed to leave a sticky tacky residue. I did a thread on
the Woodworking Furum "Evil Polyshades to the Rescue" which elicited a lot
of conflicting "expert" opinions and arguments that one must strip to bare
wood.
(Thread may still be around as that Forum moves slow.) I properly stripped
acres of woodwork in an old Victorian when I was young and stupid. Never
again! Jennifer-in-clyde (in the same boat) and I stumbled around on
that
woodworking thread to get to this method.

SHOPPING LIST:
-electric screwdriver or screw drill bits
-mineral spirits to clean the years of gunk off the cabinet
-miracle cloths (optional)
-fine sandpaper
-box-o-disposable gloves from walgreens or the like
-old socks or rags for wiping on coats
-disposable small plastic bowls or plates, and plastic spoons or forks for
stirring/dipping (optional)
-General Finishes water base Expresso stain (pretty thick, but not quite a
gel) This one may not even be a needed step if the Java gets it dark
enough.
-General Finishes Java gel stain (poly based)
-General Finishes clear top coat (poly based)
-old sheets or plastic sheeting or newspaper

Rockler woodworking stores are a good place to find the General Finish
products. Or some larger hardware stores. Quart of each was more than
enough for my 60 doors and drawer fronts and goes for $12-14 at Rockler.
There are smaller sizes if your project is small.

SETUP AND PLANNING:
You will need a place to work and leave wet doors to dry overnight - I set
up 2 spaces, garagefor sanding/cleaning and basement for staining/sealing.
Use newpaper or plastic to protect the surface and floor. Figure out how you
will prop doors to dry.
Plan blocks of 20-30-minutes for sanding/cleaning bundles of, say, 6
doors at a time. Then just 10 minute sessions to wipe on coats. The coats
will need to dry for about 24 hours, so figure that each section of the
kitchen will be doorless for 4 or 5 days. Divide the job up into manageable
chunks.

PREPARATION:
Take off doors and drawer fronts. Use screw drill bits on an electric drill
if you don't have an electric srewdriver. Remove all the hardware. *Mark
alike things so you know what goes back where.*
Clean the doors thoroughly. Not with TSP but with something pretty strong
and scrub well. There's years of grease there.
Sand LIGHTLY, just a scuffing really. Just enough to break the finish and
give it some tooth, no more than a minute a door. A miracle cloth is good
for getting most of the dust off. Then wipe well with mineral spirits to
clean and get the last of the gunk off.
.

STAINING:
In order, we're gonna put on:
-General Finishes Expresso water based stain (1-2 coats) - optional
-General Finishes Java gel stain (couple coats)
-General Finishes Clear urethene gel topcoat in satin (couple coats)

But first put on work clothes, tie up your hair (Tom, you may skip this
step, LOL) and pop your phone into a baggie nearby (you know it will ring).
Glove up.
*First do a trial on the back of a door and check if Java coats alone
suffice.
If the Java alone is to your liking, just skip the Expresso and return it.*
Open and stir up the Expresso stain, then spoon some into a plastic bowl.
Close the tin so it doesn't get contaminated. Slide a sock over your hand,
grab a gob of Expresso and smear it on. Wipe off the excess. Let it dry well
- overnight is good. It will lighten as it dries, but then darken again with
any other
coat or sealer. A second coat can end up with a deeper tone at the end -
though it might seem like the second coat is just dissolving the first.
YMMV.

Repeat with Java gel. This is thicker and poly based (*not water cleanup!*=
messier). Color is a rich dark reddish brown. Wait for the second coat to
judge if the color is deep enough for you. I wanted a very deep dark color,
like melted dark chocolate. So I went pretty heavy on these layers. *I did
not sand between coats*.

Repeat with clear gel top coat. This will give you the strength you need in
a kitchen.

Do the same process with the cabinet sides, face and toekick area. Might
need to divide that up also, and stagger the work: doors/cabinets/doors/
etc.

NOTE: The cloth or socks used for the gels are very flammable! Collect and
store them in a bucket of water as you go and then dispose of them all
properly.

FINISHING AND REASSEMBLY:
I suggest you put the doors back up after one clear coat, then you can check
everything over and darken an area with more Java if needed, followed by a
clear coat. When it all looks right, go over it all again with another clear
gel coat. Or two. Install your hardware.
The feel of the finish should be wonderful, really smooth and satiny. Color
deep and rich - way nicer than that faded, beat 80's oak color.

FINAL THOUGHTS:
Definitely experiment first with the back of a door or drawer front to be
sure it is the look you want. Yes, this takes a couple days to coat, dry,
recoat, dry, etc but you may discover that the Java alone does the trick and
this will save you A LOT of work. Front end patience is worth it.

This is a pretty easy project to do. Hard to screw it up. The worst is the
prep - relative to that, smearing on the coats is cake. I had over 60
pieces (big kitchen) AND island sides and book shelves, etc and I admit I
lost steam partway through. Had to push myself through the last of it. But
it was worth it. Folks think I got all new cabinets - it looks that good.
Now the finish will not be as durable as factory finish - go at it with a
Brillo pad and you WILL abrade it. But it has held up pretty well. And
after a year of pretty heavy use, I've just had a few nicks, easily
repaired.

I added smashing hardware, raised my passthrough, resurfaced the Corian
(also simple but messy and tedious) and replaced the DW and sink. It looks
gorgeous to me and I really enjoy the space - how it sits all quiet, clean
and serene, then gets all crazy with the food and folks du jour. I couldn't
be happier, especially that I didn't have to work another year just to pay
for the update!!

Link to cabinets in progress:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b45/celticm00n/kitchen cosmetic update project/kitchen during/

Link to almost finished cabinet pix:
http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/celticm00n/kitchen cosmetic update project/finished bit by bit/?start=20

Good luck with your project!! Feel free to ask me any questions as you go.
And let me know if you try it and how it turns out.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/dealers.htm

Here's instructions [thanks to celticmoon]
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0619093520899.html

You can clip it and save in case it ever gets lost in space. On the top of a mesage is a little section that says 'clippings' and you can clip the post. Or just print it out!

Trish