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honed virginia mist pics

posted by: deee on 09.07.2007 at 05:08 pm in Kitchens Forum

Just installed today! I'm really pleased. Many, many thanks to this forum for all the advice and hand holding. Be sure to check out my galaxy sink too. I'll post more pics of the kitchen when finished.

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clipped on: 09.18.2007 at 09:35 pm    last updated on: 09.18.2007 at 09:36 pm

RE: Plugmolds--have you had problems with them? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: needanap on 09.05.2007 at 09:30 pm in Kitchens Forum

Love my plugmold! Mine are mounted at a 45 degree angle in the back corner between upper cabinets and top of backsplash. That makes them very easy to use. I think you can find angled plugmold which is more $$ than regular flat plugmold, but my builder just mounted the flat stuff on an angled block of wood in the corner. Works great - wouldn't want it any other way! Here is a pic. Hope this helps. It is completely hidden from view by the light rail, unless you bend down to see it.

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clipped on: 09.15.2007 at 06:12 pm    last updated on: 09.15.2007 at 06:12 pm

RE: blumotion (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: debi_2006 on 09.12.2007 at 12:28 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's a link for the separate Blumotion hinges that can be attached to any cabinet for soft door closes. We have these and I can't say enough good things about them. We don't have Blum hinges on our cabinets so these are perfect.

I don't know if you can get separate Blumotion units for drawers though, but luckily, our drawers came with them, but the doors didn't. Now everything in our kitchen has soft close.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blumotion for doors

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clipped on: 09.13.2007 at 02:30 pm    last updated on: 09.13.2007 at 02:30 pm

RE: Does All Granite Require Sealing (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: stonegirl on 09.09.2007 at 08:44 am in Kitchens Forum

Sealing or not sealing stone is not a matter of saving the fabricator money or not. A good, experienced fabricator will be able to tell you if your stone requires sealer or not.

Some people ascribe to the theory that they will seal anything, regardless - it could not hurt anything, right? This is not quite true. Unnecessary application of a sealer can often cause problems on a stone that, without sealer, would be a breeze to maintain.

I will use TRUE Black Absolute as an example here, since it is a problem that often occurs and has probably the easiest symptoms to spot: This stone is dense. It will not absorb water, much less a sealer. If a sealer gets applied, the sealer will not absorb into the stone as it was designed to do. In stead, if the residue is not buffed off completely, it will just dwell on the surface of the stone. This forms a layer that can react to exposure to acids, leaving white marks (ghost rings and ghost etches) It could also be a cause of a smudgy, streaky appearance. The stone now looks awful and leaves the client with regrets about choosing the stone to begin with. After all - now - a stone that was supposed to be easy to maintain has turned into an ugly maintenance nightmare.

It is a relatively easy problem to fix, though. The sealer needs to be stripped and the stone has to go "au naturel". The ghost rings and other white marks and smudges will disappear once the sealer is removed, leaving the stone beautiful once more.

Please note that I am referring to the true BA in my example. It is a dolerite and is impervious to liquids and non-reactive to acids. Some Chinese and Indian stones being sold as BA have calcium binders and actually will etch if exposed to acids.

The only way to find out for sure if your stone requires sealer, would be to test an untreated sample of your slabs for absorption. See if it darkens when exposed to water. If it does, it could benefit from the application of sealer. If it doesn't darken, you never had a problem to begin with :)

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clipped on: 09.09.2007 at 09:23 pm    last updated on: 09.09.2007 at 09:23 pm

RE: another weird granite question (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: carpentershop on 08.22.2007 at 10:39 pm in Kitchens Forum

I know that some of the guys over at stoneadvice.com posted that the "black list" was for fabrication issues only, and I am quite familular with the thread. There were some complaining that some stones shouldn't be on the list.

That said, why did they pull the thread off the public pages and put it in the "Dark Room"? Were the thread just about PITA stones to fabricate, homeowners would benefit from knowing which ones have a built in charge for difficulty to fabricate. Some of the stones were on their for scratching or staining, some were labeled as "Junk" by individual fabricators.

Here is the list, as of last May. Look down aways for the actual list. Note the fabricator taking down his sample of White Persia, Genisis crumbling like blue cheese in this woman's hands (Never again, she says), Breccia Oniceata fabricator says to stock up on epoxy before cutting it, and Black Matrix that is near impossible to polish on the edges and is easy to scratch.

Maron Cohiba
Labrador Antique
Delicatus
Sea Foam Green
Golden Ice
Sucuri
Honey Gold
Gold and Silver
Antique Brown
Negro Rosada
ghibli
kash white
kash gold
brown antique (kryptonite in there...snaps finger bits)
rain forest
borduex
corral reef
some rainforst material
all the indian juperanas
delicatus
gahriba beach
coral reaf
Mascarello
purple dunas
juperana golden
Aqua Grantique
Mantegna
Bianco Antico
Tropical Treasure
Amadeus
Geriba Beach
Oro Romano
White Spring
Matrix
Black Forest
Amber Fantasy
gold carrocca
Azul Macuba
Angelica Black
Metallic-it has gneiss, which is a striated metamorphic stone AKIN to granite
jurassic green
Copper silk
GENESIS

I used to tell people how great the stoneadvice.com site was, but when they yanked this, they did consumers a disservice.

Here is a copy of the last page, where you will find the comments about some of the stones.










Stone black List

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blaight
Trusted Friend

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 48
Location: salmon arm, bc. canada

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: For what it's worth

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI....Just finished the white persia kitchen...found out that if you use a sander and 80 thru 320 grit sand paper we had zero blow outs or crumbling of this stone..went to 800 wet and up after that and it was a beauty of a finish.....
I'm still taking down my sample of this stone...........
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Brian Laight
Hard Rock Granite
Salmon Arm, BC.
250-832-4341
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Checketts
Best Friend

Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Providence Ut.

Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:03 am Post subject:

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All Bianco Romano slabs must not be created equil.
We did a 3cm job with a 2-3/4'' edge on a very large island with no problems.
The island was so long we had to use the ends off of a bookmatched slab to make it long enough.
I have another job coming up. Hope it goes just as well.
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Rock on!
Chris Checketts, SFA
http://www.stoneadvice.com/forum/Stone-Tips4928.html
Granitetopsofutah.com
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actoffice
Best Friend

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Cleveland, GA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject:

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STAY AWAY FROM GENESIS!!!!

I am screaming that for a reason- expensive stone that crumbles like blue cheese. In fact, when we were trying to repair a piece, I was taking pieces of it and crushing it in my hands (and I am not that strong of a girl).

NEVER AGAIN!!

BTW, I compiled a list of the stones we have been talking about- I will post it in a few minutes, that way we have something to work with.

Jackie
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Mark Lammers,SFA or Jackie Peck, SFA
http://www.appalachianwaterjetandstone.com
Cleveland, GA
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actoffice
Best Friend

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Cleveland, GA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject:

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Stone Fabrication Black List (as of 5/21/07)

Maron Cohiba
Labrador Antique
Delicatus
Sea Foam Green
Golden Ice
Sucuri
Honey Gold
Gold and Silver
Antique Brown
Negro Rosada
ghibli
kash white
kash gold
brown antique (kryptonite in there...snaps finger bits)
rain forest
borduex
corral reef
some rainforst material
all the indian juperanas
delicatus
gahriba beach
coral reaf
Mascarello
purple dunas
juperana golden
Aqua Grantique
Mantegna
Bianco Antico
Tropical Treasure
Amadeus
Geriba Beach
Oro Romano
White Spring
Matrix
Black Forest
Amber Fantasy
gold carrocca
Azul Macuba
Angelica Black
Metallic-it has gneiss, which is a striated metamorphic stone AKIN to granite
jurassic green
Copper silk
GENESIS
_________________
Mark Lammers,SFA or Jackie Peck, SFA
http://www.appalachianwaterjetandstone.com
Cleveland, GA
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Mark Lauzon
Platnum Fez Cap Wearing Super Homeboy

Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 4301
Location: Oregon

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject:

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Why is antique lab on the list? That is really a nice stone.
We also have processed TONS of succuri with no issues.
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Regards,
Mark Lauzon, SFA, MIA
www.stoneworks.cc
www.granitemonster.com
Get Allied...Join The SFA!
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actoffice
Best Friend

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Cleveland, GA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject:

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I just placed on the list what was posted in the past from other people. We have done Succuri as well that turned out nice.

I thought about placing small snipets of the opinions of the stone with it- but I had a customer come in when I was pulling this together. I will try to edit it tonight after I spend time with my ankle biters (kids- sorry)

Have a great Monday!
Jackie
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Mark Lammers,SFA or Jackie Peck, SFA
http://www.appalachianwaterjetandstone.com
Cleveland, GA
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Timm


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Gig Harbor, Wa.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: Gerbia Beach

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We just got a job with gerbia beach, and I noticed it on the black list. Does anyone have any advice on what to be carefull with when fabricating this stone? Should I be weary about doing an undermount on it? Thanks
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fellow fabricator
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Chris
Uber Super Dooper Friend

Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 1648
Location: Willows, Ca

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject:

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That's it, I'm not cutting stone anymore, too many black listed materials.
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Chris Freeman, SFA
Freeman Granite & Marble Inc.
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Clyde Kingry
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Dothan, Alabama

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:

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Breccia Oniceata......

Must have plenty of epoxy around before starting fabrication, especially running 2cm Ogee in the CNC.

BAM!!! Get the glue.

Every time we work with this stuff, I say "never again".
_________________
"Our Reputation Is Set In Stone"
__________________________

Clyde M. Kingry, SFA, MIA, MBNA
Vice President
Southside Granite Co.
Dothan, AL 36301
est. 1941

(334) 794-4161
(334) 797-5083
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Stone Dude
Best Friend

Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Southern California

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:55 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POOP ON BLACK MATRIX
_________________
Cameron DeMille
Natural Stone Restoration
@
DeMille Marble & Granite
MIA member

check out DeMilleMarble.com
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Clyde Kingry
Best Friend

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Dothan, Alabama

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:44 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stone Dude wrote:
POOP ON BLACK MATRIX

We had some stuff called Matrix a few weeks ago. The stuff was strange looking, but nice looking. Had a stratified appearance when broken. Nearly impossible to get a good polish on the edge. Very easily scratched. It was a grey metallic color. I don't care if we see anymore of it.

Same stuff?
_________________
"Our Reputation Is Set In Stone"
__________________________

Clyde M. Kingry, SFA, MIA, MBNA
Vice President
Southside Granite Co.
Dothan, AL 36301
est. 1941

(334) 794-4161
(334) 797-5083
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Here is another thread talking about the black list, look about half way down, june 10th or so and one shop mentions that using black listed materials voids their warranty, the word crap was mentioned.

http://www.stoneadvice.com/forum/feeling-silly-dark-granites-most-durable-t2962.html?highlight=granite%20black%20list
True sometimes they mention that the black list is more toward fabrication, but do a search and you will find threads where consumers were clearly using the list to pick out their stone. Sometimes the experts said nothing, other times they claimed the list was for fabrication.

How about it Stoneadvice.com, how about putting it back up so consumers can make up their own minds?

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clipped on: 09.09.2007 at 08:52 pm    last updated on: 09.09.2007 at 08:52 pm

Is that a real granite? (and does it really matter?!)

posted by: stonegirl on 09.05.2007 at 02:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

As with so much in the natural stone industry, there is a fairly large amount of confusion regarding the actual geologic classification of most commercially available slab materials. The amount of misinformation is astounding and often quite discouraging for the average Sally and Joe Consumer trying to decide on what material would make just the best counter top for their new kitchen. With this article I will try to clarify some of the intricacies of stone classification.

I'll start with a given: Not all commercial granites are true geologic granites. I can already hear you sigh and roll your eyes. I sympathize - science was not my forte either, but take heart, I will try my best to make this entertaining!

In the commercial realm, a "granite" gets classified as a hard natural stone which can be polished and that requires more aggressive tools and abrasive than what would be used on marble. This is a pretty broad and not very scientific kind of description, which leaves some pretty big loopholes and some really wide wiggle room.

A true geologic granite gets classified as an igneous rock consisting mainly of quartz, feldspars and mica - much more concise and restrictive.

To be quite honest, real geologic granites are not very exciting pieces of rock at all (from a design perspective, I have to add). They will have quite an homogeneous grain pattern and can range in color from grays to browns, yellows or pinks. A good example of a real geologic granite would be Georgia Gray (from Elberton, GA and it has a water absorption weight of 0.2%-0.3%). True granites are not reactive to acids, but could be quite absorbent as our example illustrates. This stone would be OK for use as a counter top, but would require sealer. It has been used as cladding for buildings and for monuments and gravestones for many, many years, though.

The rest of the commercial granites can be divided into a couple of broad groups: Magmatic rocks and Metamorphic rocks.

Magmatic rocks are formed when magma cooled and crystallized. True granites (like Tropic Brown), syenites (like Ubatuba), gabbros (like Black Absolute), diorites (like Brazilian Black) and charnokites (like Atlantic Green) will fall under this umbrella.

Metamorphic rocks were formed when one kind of stone i.e. sandstone, got transformed into another kind of material i.e. gneiss. An example of such a stone would be Giallo Veneziano (a gneiss from Brazil with a water absorption weight of 0.25%-0.35%). Metaconglomerates (like Verde Marinace), Quartzites (like Almond Mauve), migmatites (like Paradiso Classico), gneisses (like Santa Cecilia) and granulites (like Verde Jewel/Tropical Green) also fall under this group.

What makes the commercial "granites" so appealing, is the fact that they are just so diverse. You have hundreds of different colors and patterns that will go beyond even your wildest imagination.

And this brings us to the second part of my question: Does it really matter if it is not a true geologic granite?

In a word: No. (and yes - you are right - I am not done yet!)

Earlier in my dissertation you might have noticed me mentioning something called the "water absorption weight" (WAW - for further reference). This is an indicator of just how absorbent a specific stone might be. The lower the number, the less absorbent the stone would be.

Following the discussions of natural stone and how they always gravitate to the question of whether a sealer would be required, this number would be a pretty good indicator of how good a stone would stand up to use in a kitchen. Without further ado, I will list a few popular stones, along with their geologic classifications and WAW's:

Black Absolute (gabbro) WAW: 0.05%-0.15%
Baltic Brown (granite) WAW: 0.15%-0.2%
Santa Cecilia (gneiss) WAW: 0.25%-0.35%
Verde Butterfly (charnokite) WAW: 0.1%-0.2%
Shivakashki (gneiss) WAW: 0.25%-0.35%
Silver Sea Green (granite) WAW: 0.15%
Marinace Green (metaconglomerate) WAW: 0.05%-0.15%
Kashmire White (granulite) WAW: 0.3%-0.5%

As you can see from the above sample, there are a number of stones that far out-perform true geologic granites in the absorption department. There are also a number of stones that absorb a tremendous amount of water (take the Kashmire White for instance). On the other side of the scale, there are stones that are too dense to benefit from the application of a sealer any way - Verde Marinace would be a great example.

Although modern sealer technology has advanced a long way in making stones less absorbent, there are a few materials (notably mostly Chinese and Indian in origin) that, even with the best sealer on the market, should not be considered for use in any high traffic environment. Again the Kashmire White would be a shining example.

Testing for absorption issues on granite samples would be as easy as dripping some water on your sample and letting it sit for a while. If it darkens the stone a little, a sealer might help. If the stone immediately becomes darker and maintains the dark spot for some while, stay away! Maintaining this would be a constant battle.

Etching is another must-do test for stones to be used in a kitchen. A lot of stones are chemically inert. Baltic Brown, Verde Butterfly, the REAL Black Absolute, Blue Eyes, the list can go on and on. Some stones on the other hand do react to acids. Blue Bahia (a sodalite-syenite) would be one example. Etches will show up as dull spots on an otherwise shiny surface. Sealers will not prevent etches, purely because etches are chemical reactions and have nothing to do with the absorption rate of the stone in question.

There are two ways to work around this issue. One is to avoid the stone that etched in testing and the other is to hone and enhance the stone. This would still give you a depth of color, but the shine would be absent and thus the etch marks - though they would still happen - would not be as prominent as they would have been on a polished surface.

To test for etching, place a wedge of lemon or lime, cut side down, on the sample overnight. Wipe the sample in the morning and hold it at an angle to the light. If there is a rough looking spot where the shine is absent, you have an etch. Etches would normally occur where calcium or calcite is present in the make-up of the stone.

Another subject of relevance in this discussion would be resining. Resining is a process where resins get impregnated into the stone slabs before they are finished. The slabs then get polished and most of the resins get polished off, leaving it only in the pits and fissures in the slabs. This serves a few purposes:
1. It can consolidate a fissured or flaky slab (Golden Beach would be an example of this - without resin, this slab would probably not have been commercially available)
2. It can reduce the WAW of a material (Santa Cecilia is a great example here. Even though it is quite an absorbent material, once it is resined, it sometimes does not require the application of a sealer even)
3. It is conducive to a superior surface finish. (Flaky stones like Verde Butterfly get resined to eliminate surface crystals from flaking off. This then provides a smooth finish to the polished slabs)
4. Another side effect of the resining process is enhanced colors. On some stones like Lady's Dream the colors could deepen with the application of the resin.

So what would be the bottom line of all this? It does not matter whether the stone you have is a real granite or not. The geologic classification has virtually no impact on the performance of the material in a kitchen. I can also say with a lot of certainty that most stone suppliers and distributors will not be able to tell a gneiss from a schist if they ever had to. It is indeed sad, but oh, so true.

So where does this leave the consumer? Well, kinda' up a creek, but hopefully I supplied a paddle here

TEST TEST and test your stone to see if it would hold up to the rigors in your kitchen. But probably the most important advice I could give you would be to choose your fabricator carefully. Make sure they have a knowledge of stone that you are comfortable with and could trust. Ask for references and look at kitchens they have done. New counter tops is a considerable investment. Do not make the mistake of thinking that stone is stone and that the guy doing it at $29 a foot will produce the same quality as someone more expensive. Conversely, do not expect the most expensive guy to be able to produce the best quality work either. A bad fabricator could make a mess out of even the best piece of stone on the planet.

Regards,
Adriana

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clipped on: 09.05.2007 at 05:50 pm    last updated on: 09.05.2007 at 05:50 pm

RE: Advice on Single Undermount Sink (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: dmlove on 06.12.2007 at 12:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

Sorry, I've never heard of the Houzer. Just wanted to let you know I (and many others on here) have the Franke Orca and love it. You don't have to get the utility shelf, it's an add-on (which I find very useful, in fact, as a place to dry those few items I hand wash) or the grid, although I also like that, as it keeps things raised so water can still run underneath (with the added benefit of keeping the sink from scratching). The 10" depth is a non-issue unless you hand-wash a lot, I suppose (or you are very tall, which I most definitely am not :). The price, well, we just sucked it up, like we did with everything else, but we're really happy with the choice we made.

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clipped on: 06.12.2007 at 02:54 pm    last updated on: 06.12.2007 at 02:54 pm

RE: Bread board--wood or granite? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: cpovey on 06.12.2007 at 09:13 am in Kitchens Forum

ditto liz-h.
Never cut on a granite board.

For that hunk of granite, use it as a cheese board. refrigerate it before use, and it will help keep cheeses cold during serving. You can get little rubber feet that will adhere to the bottom to prevent scratching.

For good cutting boards, look at John Boos. Don't buy bamboo, it is a poor cuting board. real Chinese chefs don't use it. It splinters too easily.

By the way, if your use of plastic cutting boards os prompted by sanitation concerns, studies at several universities have shown that wood cutting boards are more sanitary than plastic ones. Cuts in plastic boards can harbor colonies of bacteria, while a wood cutting board will dry out bacteria and kill them.

Myself, I use a wood cutting board for everything except raw chicken and turkey. For those, I have a dedicated plastic board. A dedicated board helps prevent cross contamination.

Here is a link that might be useful: John Boos

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clipped on: 06.12.2007 at 02:50 pm    last updated on: 06.12.2007 at 02:50 pm

here's a pic (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: sshrivastava on 02.03.2007 at 12:04 pm in Appliances Forum

dianalo,

One more thing... you may wish to consider installing a separate oven and cooktop, unless you like the one-piece look of a range. It's not too difficult to do the trim out for your oven and install a platform, then your countertop wraps around the cooktop and you get a very nice finished product. Here's a pic of my installation over a Dacor oven:

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clipped on: 06.08.2007 at 04:48 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2007 at 04:48 pm

RE: Soapstone recommendations in NY/CT (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: theresab1 on 06.07.2007 at 07:36 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm also in westchester, we went to a couple of granite places that also carried soapstone- one was in mt. vernon and the other was in bridgeport ct. I highly recommend the one in Bridgeport-its called ADKO- the warehouse was huge and all the slabs are laid out so you can walk through the aisles and look at each while making your decision. Good luck.

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clipped on: 06.08.2007 at 04:32 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2007 at 04:32 pm

Its is finished! Before/After Pics

posted by: molly8of9 on 06.07.2007 at 05:15 pm in Kitchens Forum

Thank you to the endless folks who helped us with this fun project! (both knowingly and unknowingly!).

Here is the before:

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Another view of the before:
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

One more before:

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

And After:
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

It was so much fun...but I am glad to be back to normal! I think I am going to take a breather before tackling the backsplash and the kitchen table!

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clipped on: 06.08.2007 at 04:20 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2007 at 04:21 pm

RE: Saving threads or at least the pictures (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: oofasis on 06.08.2007 at 02:05 pm in Kitchens Forum

If you look on the right hand side of each post, you'll see a pair of scissors next to the word CLIPPINGS. If you want to save a thread, click "Clip This Post" and in the next window click "Save to My Clippings." To view your saved clippings, use the Member Services link at the very bottom of the Kitchens Forum page. Use the Linking to Your Page option to get to your page where you can view the clippings youve saved.
HTH

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clipped on: 06.08.2007 at 04:19 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2007 at 04:20 pm