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new granite water stain

posted by: julesl on 11.08.2013 at 07:45 pm in Kitchens Forum

We recently had a granite countertop installed and I'm noticing water stains on it that don't scrub off. I was told the granite was sealed. Is the contractor responsible for this? Or, do we just have to learn to live with it?


Helpful thread on water "etching".
clipped on: 05.07.2014 at 10:57 am    last updated on: 05.07.2014 at 10:58 am

Modern Walnut Cabinets?

posted by: pipdog on 01.17.2014 at 07:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

Our old white kitchen is now officially gone, and we're in the initial planning stages of a kitchen remodel/facelift for a mid century mod kitchen in our new home. Can anyone recommend manufacturers or sources of modern looking walnut cabinets? We're open to custom, but would like to price out all options before we head the custom route. I'm seeing a handful of European manufacturers, but I'm not sure about the quality and would love some GW recs if you all have them or could point me in the right direction.

We're looking for walnut cabinets that look something like this (these are bathroom vanities, but you get the idea of the color and wood grain):

 photo Screenshot2014-01-17at33929PM_zps2ca43a05.png
 photo Screenshot2014-01-17at33903PM_zpsdac5a4f8.png


clipped on: 03.18.2014 at 05:29 pm    last updated on: 03.18.2014 at 05:29 pm

Recipe Blogs or Websites..tell us what you follow

posted by: firsthouse_mp on 12.12.2013 at 08:19 pm in Kitchens Forum

Just curious if you follow any blogs of cooks or if you have certain websites that you like? Would love to hear what our GW cooks are looking at these days!

I like GirlCooksWorld for her gluten free recipes. I search Pinterest for recipes if I can't figure out what to do with my Butternut Squash and want to find something new to do with it. I love the pictures and the recipes from Sprouted Kitchen (gives me great ideas for my garden).

Tell us what you follow and like......


clipped on: 12.16.2013 at 03:32 pm    last updated on: 12.16.2013 at 03:32 pm

RE: Shopping for more modern faucet? Please share your pics (Follow-Up #60)

posted by: IliN on 11.09.2013 at 10:54 am in Kitchens Forum

We got this hansgrohe from eBay can't beat the price! It has a toggle switch for the spray and I love the clean shiny look.


clipped on: 11.10.2013 at 10:47 am    last updated on: 11.10.2013 at 10:47 am

RE: Shopping for more modern faucet? Please share your pics (Follow-Up #59)

posted by: barthelemy on 11.09.2013 at 08:15 am in Kitchens Forum

I looove the Karbon and put one in my parents' kitchen but as it is a bit too expensive for my budget I picked Hansgrohe's Citterio M two holes pull down faucet. Mine is not installed yet but I can't wait to use it :) .


clipped on: 11.10.2013 at 10:46 am    last updated on: 11.10.2013 at 10:46 am

More marmoleum fun. Not. Need input, please.

posted by: deedles on 01.06.2013 at 07:48 am in Kitchens Forum

Now we have this all over our marmoleum floor.


My dh layed the floor per the instructions of the flooring installers. 3/4" plywood tongue and groove Sturdifloor, nailed with galvanized Paslode ring shanks nails. We asked them specifically if that would be good or if something else should go on top and were told this would be fine as they'd use a floor leveler over the top, which they did.

Some of you may remember my earlier problem with the heat weld seam necessitating replacement of half the floor.

What do we do? Blame ourselves for the floor underlayment or try and hold the installers responsible?

The floor was intalled in July and we've now just noticed this since the heat has been on. Plywood shrinkage? I've searched the web and found mention of this, too. It really looks awful. So bummed about this expensive flooring looking like crap.

Thoughts, advice?


clipped on: 04.25.2013 at 09:01 am    last updated on: 04.25.2013 at 09:01 am

RE: Everything I Wanted to Know About Drawers... (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: angela12345 on 02.02.2013 at 02:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have posted this other places before, but I am going to try to consolidate it *all* in one place.

My kitchen cabinets from UltraCraft are semi-custom. LOVE them. They are Frameless cabinets that allow size modifications in 1/16" increments to height, width, and depth (or all 3) at no additional cost. So, go ahead and make your uppers 13" or 14" deep for those extra large mixing/salad bowls and charger plates, and maximize your storage space for example storing glasses 4 deep instead of 3 deep. Have deeper base cabinets. Make your toekick slightly shorter so you have an extra inch or two for more drawers height. Cut down on the fillers you need by making your cabinets the exact width you need them, instead of being forced to choose from 3" increments. I like that all my uppers are flat across the bottom (no frame/dividers between cabinets), so I could install one long plugmold and one long under cabinet light, then hide it all with lightrail at the front. Also, standard is Blum full extension soft close drawer glides, soft close doors, no charge for finished sides (like end of cabinet run), all dovetail drawers with fully captured bottoms, and bunches of other stuff is standard. 100 year warranty. Yep, I LOVE them !!!

Cabinet Decisions - I emailed this part to a friend recently, so am copying here ...
1. One of the first things to decide is what cabinet door overlay you want. Inset doors or overlay doors ? Inset doors sit inside of the cabinet box frame rather than attached to the front of the cabinet box. Overlay is further broken down into traditional overlay, partial / modified overlay, and full overlay and determines how much of the cabinet box/frame behind the door you want to show. The hinges can be exposed or concealed for all overlay styles except full overlay which only allows for concealed hinges. The overlay you choose will automatically knock out some cabinet options and cabinet mfgs who may not make that type of cabinet. (My cabinets are full overlay)
See ...
And ...

2. Then you want to decide on the cabinet boxes ... framed or frameless ? Some mfgs only make one or the other, but not both, so this will knock out other mfgs. Framed cabinets have a frame on the face of the cabinet box that the doors attach to and allows for inset doors as well as all 3 overlay styles (traditional, partial, and full overlay). On frameless, the doors attach directly to the cabinet box sides instead of a face frame. Frameless are typically full overlay, but inset is also possible. I think a small partial overlay is possible on frameless if you are using semi-custom or custom cabinets - you would order slightly smaller doors so a little of the cabinet box would show. Traditional overlay is not possible on frameless because the cabinet box sides are not wide enough to show the traditional 1"-2" of the face frame. (My cabinets are frameless)
See ... BOX - construction.asp

The disadvantage of framed is you give up useable space in drawers/pullouts and ease of access on cabinets with doors. This is because the drawer or pullout has to clear the face frame that goes around the opening, so they are narrower from side to side and also shallower from top to bottom. In a small kitchen, the extra useable space from frameless could make a big difference. Estimates say frameless gives 10-15% more space, so 100 inches of framed would be 110 inches in frameless. To me, an extra 10 inches of drawer space is huge, especially when you don't have much to begin with !! Frameless cabinets with doors also offer easier access - there is no face frame creating a 1-2" obstruction on the left, right, and top inside the cabinet doors, also there is typically no center stile between double doors in frameless.

For full overlay doors, there is very little difference in the looks of framed vs frameless. From an exterior appearance standpoint, these cabinets will basically look alike. Because the doors are full overlay, you don't see much or any of the frame and would have to open the door or drawer to see if the cabinet was framed or frameless. For inset doors, the framed cabinets would have a wider frame around the door than the frameless cabinet would.

In the below two pics, the cabinet on the left is framed, and the one on the right is frameless. Looking only at the size of the opening, see how the drawer for frameless is wider from left to right and also has more open space from top to bottom. The useable drawer space is a couple inches more in each direction in the frameless. If they both had the same size full overlay exterior drawer face on them, they would look alike from the exterior. You would not be able to see the useable interior space until you opened the drawer. If they both had inset doors, the framed cabinets would have a much wider "frame" around the door and drawer.

3. The third thing to consider is the cosmetics ... the door style you like, the drawer style (slab/flat/plain drawer front or drawer front that matches your door style), as well as wood species (cherry, oak, maple, etc), and stain or paint colors, glazing, etc. (My cabinets are slab drawer, raised panel door, cherry with a chestnut stain, no additional finishes or glazes)
This website shows just a few of the different door styles available ... DOOR - style.asp

4. The fourth thing to consider is stock cabinets vs semi-custom vs custom cabinet mfgs. Stock cabinets are available in 3" width increments (cabinets have to be width of 12", 15", 18", etc), filler strips fill in gaps between cabinets and wall or appliances, you have to choose from the heights and depths they offer, and there are very few options available, which can be pretty pricey to add on. Semi-custom cabinets vary by manufacturer in what customizations and options they offer, but they offer many more options than stock and allow sizing modifications. With custom cabinets, there should be no limitations including drawings for non-standard items, custom molding profiles, door styles, alternate wood species, custom stains & finishes, construction, accessories and options. (My cabinets are semi-custom)

5. Finally, you want to consider the cabinet construction. Not that this is the least important ! It is one of the most important things. Pretty much all the other stuff is just the "pretty" stuff, LOL. This has to do with how well the cabinets are made - are the drawers stapled, dowelled, glued, dovetail ? What materials are the cabinets made of ? etc, etc.

Drawer depths
My bases are 24" deep bases and are all 20" useable interior from front to back. I'm pretty sure I could have (and definitely should have!) requested the drawers be an extra 1-2 inches deep to fill up the inside of the cabinet. I *think* the full extension glides would not have pulled out that extra inch or so, but I could have lived with that !! I could have fit my 8qt stock pots 2 deep front to back in the drawer instead of having to offset them slightly in the drawer if I had even an extra 1/2".

Drawer Heights
The height of my drawer fronts do not line up all the way around the 4 sides of my kitchen, but do line up when you are looking at any one section at a time. I have 2 stacks together that are 6-12-12 separated by a stove. On the opposite corner of the kitchen are 2 stacks that are 6-6-9-9. What helps is that my stacks are caddy-cornered across the kitchen with appliances and base cabinets with doors separating them ... it would be very hard to look in any direction where you could see the "mis-matches" at one time.

My one advice ... find out the interior useable height of your drawers ahead of time. My Ultracraft cabinets are frameless so have more than framed would. They have undermount glides. On the 6-12-12 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 10.5, 9.5 (top to bottom on stack). Where this becomes an issue ... I wanted to store all of my pans, pots, etc vertical on their edges in the drawers so they wouldn't have to be stacked. The middle 10.5" drawers are tall enough for all of the casserole/baking dishes and pie tins, the roasting pan, and almost all of the pans, pots, and lids to stand on edge (the 9.5" drawers are not tall enough for a few of those items to stand on edge). Both height drawers are definitely tall enough for all of the big pots (even the 8qt stockpot) that I own except the huge "canning" pot.

Obviously, neither drawer is tall enough for my 12" pans/skillets to stand on edge (arrggh!). I have really been struggling with how to store these. Right now I have them flat in the bottom of the 9.5" height bottom drawer. Big waste of real estate !! I wish I had a shallower drawer I could put the big skillets in, or either had made my drawer heights 6-9-15 which would have given me 4, 7.5, 12.5 useable. My tallest 8qt pots are 7" tall, so all of them could have gone in the middle drawer and everything on edge could have gone in the bottom drawer (including the 12" skillets!). Google for images of drawers with pans on edge.

On the other side of the kitchen with the 6-6-9-9 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 (top to bottom). I use the top 6" drawers all around the kitchen for silverware, spatulas and all the other kitchen gadgets, in-drawer knife block, foil wax paper cling wrap and plastic baggies, potholders, dish towels, etc. All of those things fit with no problem in these drawers including the ladle and the box grater. The 3rd drawer holds all of the tupperware and is the perfect height for this - 6 would have been too shallow and 12 would have been too deep. The bottom drawer is where we currently keep the paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

(note: the interior drawer heights listed above vary slightly for the bottom two 12" drawers, the top two 6" drawers, and for the bottom two 9" drawers because of an interior cross support and space to clear the granite without scraping at the top)

ALSO: the drawer face to interior useable space ratio will be DIFFERENT depending on if your drawer face is inset, partial overlay, or full overlay, and depending on if you have undermount glides or sidemount glides as catbuilder says above. For example on my 6-6-9-9 four drawer stack ... 1.5" counter + 6 + 6 + 9 + 9 + 4.5" toekick = 36" finished height. My useable heights are 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 = 22.5" total useable height. I lose 1.25-2.25" useable height for each drawer.
Compare to quiltgirl above inset drawers ... 1.5" counter + 5.5 + 5.5 + 6.25 + 6.25 + 4.5 toekick (assumed) = 29.5". Are her cabinets shorter than mine ? No ! Add in between each of her drawers approx 1.25" face frame. She has undermount glides as well so her useable heights are 4, 4, 4.75, 4.75 = 17.5" total useable height. She only loses 1.5" useable height for each drawer face showing, but she is also losing useable height in the face frame between each drawer which is why her total useable space is less.
This is FINE !! Nothing at all against her cabinets. They will be beautiful. And she knew she was going to lose space with the inset when she chose them, but chose to do it because inset is the look she loves.

Drawer widths
The maximum cabinet width my manufacturer would do for drawer bases is 36" wide. I have 4 drawer bases at 21", 32", 17", and 36" wide. The interior useable width of these drawer bases are 18, 29, 14, 33 wide, so 3" less than the exterior width in each.

Going around my kitchen ... first I have a 6" wide pullout broom closet. Next are two 30" wide fridge/top freezers. Then a 24" full height cabinet with pantry space at the top, MW, single oven, and 6" high drawer under oven (4.5" useable height).

The 21" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the left of my stove. Top drawer holds knife block, sharpener, scissors, trivets, potholders. 2nd drawer holds baking dishes on their edge. Bottom drawer is basically empty - it has one 8qt stockpot. If my drawer heights had been 6-9-15 instead (did I say grrrr?), I would have used the middle drawer as a bread drawer and stored the bakeware on edge in the bottom drawer.

Next is the stove.

The 32" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the right of the stove. Top drawer holds spatulas, spoons, ladles, wood spoons, basting brushes, meat thermometer, etc - things that are used at the stove. 2nd drawer holds frying pans, the smaller pots (1qt 2qt 3qt), and lids all on their edges. Bottom drawer holds 8qt pots. Also, the 12" skillets with lids, splatter screens, and griddle are all stacked in one stack flat in bottom of drawer, Grrrrrrr. If they were in the drawer with the other frying pans instead of taking up real estate here, that lone 8qt pot in my other cabinet would have been here with the other pots.

Turn the corner and next is the first dishwasher and then a 36" sink base with Ticor S405D sink (70/30 double bowl).
Turn the corner and next is a 36" wide all door base cabinet (no upper drawer). I use this base cabinet for all my small appliances - blender, beaters, toaster, George Foreman, etc. Next to this base cabinet is the second dishwasher, followed by an 18" prep sink base with a Ticor S815 14x15x8 sink, and an empty space for an ice maker which is where the trash can currently resides.

The 17" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 sits between the trash area/future ice maker and the peninsula and is on the opposite corner of the kitchen from the other drawer bases. The top drawer holds foil, wax paper, cling wrap, plastic baggies, chip clips, and restaurant menus. The 2nd drawer is our "junk" drawer and has some of everything including screwdrivers, clothespins, matches, flashlights, sewing kit, lint brush, etc. The 3rd drawer holds medicine, bandaids, alcohol, peroxide, as well as dish towels and plastic utensils from takeout restaurants in a tub. The bottom drawer is for tupperware without partners - bowls and lids with no matches.

The 36" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 forms the peninsula. The top drawer holds all eating utensils (silverware and kid utensils), serving utensils, chopsticks, handheld can opener, wine opener in a strategically easy-to-access location, etc. The 2nd drawer holds all the other kitchen gadgets that aren't to the left and right of the stove like shrimp deveiners, graters, whisks, rolling pin, pizza rolling cutter-thingy, mashers, salad tongs, etc, etc. The 3rd drawer holds tupperware with their matching lids. The bottom drawer holds paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

We went with the same size handle for all of our drawers and also only one handle for all of the drawers, no matter what the width of the drawer. They are 4" wide. We maybe would have used different widths, but the ones we liked in the finish we wanted did not come in a bunch of widths. The cabinet guy said they would look fine and they do. We have slab drawer fronts and the pulls are centered top to bottom and side to side on each drawer. We used round knobs on all doors.

Drawer Organizers
We ordered the drawer divider channels from Lee Valley so we could completely customize the interior of our drawers. They often have free shipping on orders over $40. Google for images - lots of gardenweb members have used these.

These are not my cabinets ... examples of pans stored vertically ...

This is my kitchen ...
 photo 4-5-11-kitchen.jpg

This post was edited by angela12345 on Sun, Feb 3, 13 at 11:44


clipped on: 02.03.2013 at 01:29 pm    last updated on: 02.03.2013 at 01:30 pm

RE: Walk-in Pantry Potato & Onion Storage? (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: rhome410 on 06.19.2010 at 03:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have plastic baskets for mine. The garlic and onions are in smaller stackable ones and the potatoes and usually several pounds of oranges in separate, larger ones...You can see the larger ones in this photo...the potato one has the white handle facing out, and the orange one is adjacent to it on the right. The onion and garlic baskets are too far over on the right shelf to see them.



clipped on: 12.27.2012 at 04:54 pm    last updated on: 12.27.2012 at 04:54 pm

I also need the stainless steel sink cleaning trick

posted by: marti8a on 12.22.2012 at 04:18 pm in Kitchens Forum

I can't remember who posted it. I've searched here and on google and can't find it. Someone told what they do to keep their SS sinks looking great and on an old SS sink that made it look like new.

Mine has a rust spot from something sitting in it. I usually use Zud on rust spots but thought I'd check that advice first, and now I can't find it.

Edited to add: I just checked my Clippings and someone recommended Bayes, but I don't think that's the post I remember.

This post was edited by marti8a on Sat, Dec 22, 12 at 16:21


Lots of tips on cleaning stainless.
clipped on: 12.23.2012 at 11:30 pm    last updated on: 12.23.2012 at 11:31 pm

my pantry is finally finished (but still empty)!!!!!

posted by: arlosmom on 02.05.2011 at 12:46 pm in Kitchens Forum

I think I'm more excited about the pantry than I was about the kitchen. It's been almost three years since we finished the kitchen. I love my kitchen, and it's a joy to cook in. We didn't have our contractors finish the pantry at the time because we were mulling over finishing details and just kind of hit a wall. We put in temporary shelving to make the pantry space usable in the meantime. It was fine. It functioned. Here is the pantry space before:


Fast forward to now. Over the past month, our carpenter has been working on the pantry, trimming out the window and door and installing baseboards and shelving. Yesterday he finished it. YAY!!! It's hard to photograph because it's a small space, but here goes. It is 5' by 5' with a 1' by 2 1/2' vertical soffit boxed out of the back corner for HVAC ducting (not in the original plans, but our architect screwed up). The back shelves are 12" deep. The can shelves are 4 1/2" deep. The toaster oven will live on the shelf with the electrical outlet. I keep vases, table linens, plastic grocery bags and a couple of small appliances in the walnut cabinet. My folding step stool fits in the space just to the right of the walnut cabinet.


He painted all of the shelving before installing it, so it has had about a week to cure already. I'm chomping at the bit to load up the shelves, but I don't want to mess up the paint. Anybody know how long I need to wait?


Fantastic fixed shelf pantry!
clipped on: 12.19.2012 at 12:47 am    last updated on: 12.19.2012 at 12:48 am

The lowdown on Super White

posted by: karin_mt on 10.26.2012 at 07:01 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am mostly a lurker here so far, and as our kitchen remodel plans take shape I have been enjoying seeing other people's progress and taking comfort that there is a strong community of kindred spirits who like to sweat all the glorious details of a kitchen!

I'm a geologist so perusing the slab yard is always fun. Rarely do you get to see so many fascinating rocks all in one place.

So today when I picked up my backsplash tile and put down a deposit for some small slabs (a separate story), I had a great time visiting various slabs with one of the fabricators. We talked about the minerals and textures that make some rocks winners in the kitchen, and others not so good.

I asked to see some Super White, knowing there is a lack of clarity about what this rock really is. He gave me a piece to bring home and I did some diagnostics. Maybe this is common knowledge to you all, but here's the lowdown.

The rock is dolomitic marble. It's not quartzite - it's not even close to quartzite in terms or hardness or resistance to acid.

Dolomitic marble is a sibling to regular marble. Regular marble is made of calcite. Dolomite is made of calcite plus magnesium. Calcite is CaCO3 and dolomite is CaMgCO3. So this rock started out as the sedimentary rock called dolomite then was metamorphosed (heat + pressure) to cause the grains to recrystallize into dolomitic marble.

My hunch is that this marble would be slightly more resistant to etching than regular calcite marble. But it is still just as soft as marble and has all the other requirements of caring for marble. It sure is a beautiful rock. But no way will it wear like granite or quartzite.

The decorative stone industry has a whole different way of naming and classifying rocks than geologists do. (The first time someone showed me a back granite I protested loudly. There is no such thing as black granite!) But I am coming around to understand how the rocks are classified from the countertop point of view. So yes, the terms are contradictory and confusing, perhaps even deliberately so in some cases. But at least in this case I am certain of what the actual rock type is.

I hope that's helpful or illuminating. And if you have questions about the real identity or geologic history of your countertop, I may be able to shed some light!



Really informative thread about different kinds of rock. So cool!
clipped on: 11.27.2012 at 11:10 am    last updated on: 11.27.2012 at 11:11 am

Way cool Lee Valley organizers: way too much?

posted by: aliris19 on 06.30.2011 at 04:20 am in Kitchens Forum

I think those Lee Valley channels for lathe to create your own customized drawer dividers looks really brilliant: Lee Valley drawer divider channels: customize your own!.

However, on second thought, why not just nail your lathe straight into the box? I know at least one person has done that.

I'm not a carpenter though I've carpented some a bit in my past. Still, I can't quite make out whether it would be hard to secure 1/4" lathe by shooting in a nail at an angle or not. Would the channels be much easier? What about if the channels, which are 2.5" are too high? As they are "plated steel" I can't imagine they'd be very easy to cut. So that's what got me to thinking about just using the lathe directly.

Anyone have any insight? People who've done either, direct-install or channel-mediated drawer dividers? Carpenters? Lee Valley CS? There are lots of impressive pictures (e.g. bob_cville?) with and without the channels (can't remember who posted recently about dh's direct-install results. Beautiful!) ;)

Let me be more explicit about my questions:

1. Are the Lee Valley channels hard to use? One poster mentioned using a fancy squashing plier and that seems intimidating. I don't want to buy a new tool, I don't want to find it very hard to get the channels to grab wood. Did yours seat easily or require a 2-ton gorilla backup team?

2. Was just securing lathe directly to the drawer box as easy as fiddling with channels?

3. What would you do if the drawer box is less than the channel's 2.5"? Direct-insatll? Let the channels ride above the box (they'll still close, e.g.)?



Useful thread about configuring kitchen drawers.
clipped on: 11.19.2012 at 09:09 am    last updated on: 11.19.2012 at 09:09 am

RE: Old Question Revisited...To Vent or not to Vent (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: bikesr2tired on 10.29.2011 at 06:32 pm in Fireplaces Forum

The main draw of a Ventless Gas Log installation the amount of heat output it is capable of. Ventless Gas Logs are able to operate with the fireplace damper closed. This way the heat circulates into the room rather than up the chimney. This leads to efficient and low-cost heating of your room. In situations of power loss, a Ventless Gas Log set can even be used as a backup heat source.

Since burning material of any kind creates a certain amount of carbon monoxide, one may wonder how an unvented log set can safely operate. Unvented Log Sets actually burn so hot that nearly 100% of the fuel is combusted. This decreases the amount of soot and carbon monoxide generated down to a negligible level, allowing Ventless Gas Log sets to operate in a safe manner.

Another byproduct of using a Ventless Log Set is a small amount of moisture. In the winter months this moisture can be beneficial in a dry room. If you are also using a humidifier, excess moisture may result in condensation on windows.

For an additional safeguard, Ventless Gas Log Sets are always equipped with an Oxygen Depletion Sensor. An ODS measures the amount of available oxygen in the room and will turn off the burner before the oxygen in the room reaches a dangerous level. The method in which this fuel burns can be thought of as similar to how a natural gas range works in your kitchen. The burner on your range is specifically designed to achieve a clean and smokeless flame. The technology available in Ventless Gas Log Sets on the market today works on similar principles.

One disadvantage of Ventless Logs are that the flame is generally smaller. A realistic flame is still possible, but it may not be as large as a flame from a Vented set of comparable size.


clipped on: 11.15.2012 at 11:12 am    last updated on: 11.15.2012 at 11:12 am

RE: Beyond Tephlon and Unhealthy Non-stick (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: localeater on 11.11.2012 at 07:30 am in Kitchens Forum

I use my cast iron skillet, I can only do 3 pancakes at a time, but that's what warming drawers are for.
I don't mean to offend, but I think you may not know how to treat your cast iron pan right, you should not need to use a lot of butter. I use one or 2 spritzes of oil for a double recipe of buttermilk pancakes.
Re-season your pan. This entails heating it on the stove, adding a high temp neutral oil, like peanut. Rub the oil around with a cotton rag or a wad of paper towels. Stick the hot smoking pan in a hot 350 oven for 45 minutes, turn the oven off. Leave it in there to cool.
After this, never let it soak in your sink, soaking is the enemy of seasoning and as you found out, really bad for your sink. And, don't use soap. If you have to use soap, you may need to re-season. After you use the pan, wipe it out with a paper towel, then run it under the tap, to rinse rinse it. You can aid the rinse with a soapless scrubby. If it still looks dirty or has a lingering odor, think fried fish, then put in 1/4 inch of water, bring to a boil, dump the hot boiling water, rinse and put the pan back on a burner to dry or dry it with a rag. cast iron cannot air dry, air drying = rust. If there is stuck on stuff, dump a handful of salt in the pan and scrub with the salt and a nylon bristle dish brush. A clean pan should look shiny and smooth, if it looks dull and dried out, it needs to be re-seasoned. I probably cook 70% of our meals in my two large cast iron skillets, last night I made roasted brussel sprouts with chili oil and agave nectar, washed as I told you and this morning we will be scrambling eggs for breakfast burritos.
In my house, no one is allowed to clean the cast iron pans except me, because they screw it up. If I am not around to clean it, it must just stay on the stove burner. I find if I have a cold pan to clean the pores of the metal are more open and so some of the seasoning seems to leach out. For cold pans, after boiling and drying, I wipe with a thin coat of oil and heat on stove top, skipping the oven part.


Great explanation of how to keep cast iron seasoned.
clipped on: 11.13.2012 at 09:42 am    last updated on: 11.13.2012 at 09:42 am

RE: Can I see your non-built in microwaves? (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: brianadarnell on 04.11.2012 at 10:03 am in Kitchens Forum

We don't use the microwave frequently, so I hated the concept of giving up a lot of space for it. When we do use it, the doors slide back on a track so they aren't hanging out in the aisle.



Another clever microwave idea
clipped on: 11.10.2012 at 07:42 pm    last updated on: 11.10.2012 at 07:43 pm

RE: Can I see your non-built in microwaves? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: clinresga on 04.11.2012 at 08:11 am in Kitchens Forum

We think we have the best of both worlds, by using a microwave concealed in a cabinet with a garage door style hinge:

Microwave in cabinet, open

Microwave in cabinet, closed

Allows easy access when door is opened, while on rare occasions where we're entertaining etc we can close door and it's invisible.

And it's far superior to any built in MW--a terrible idea, they are overpriced, and near impossible to replace when they inevitably fail. And they contain the same "guts" as any $200 Sharp or Panasonic off the shelf unit, as these two companies are the only manufacturers worldwide.


Very Clever idea for the microwave.
clipped on: 11.10.2012 at 07:40 pm    last updated on: 11.10.2012 at 07:40 pm

Tall pull out pantry

posted by: olivertwist on 11.08.2012 at 12:34 am in Kitchens Forum

Trying to decide on what type of pantry next to the fridge: tall pull out vs a tall shallow cabinet that opens from the side. I know I may lose a little storage space with the pull-out due to the amount of space required for the hardware, but what else should I consider? I have heard that sometimes the pull outs get too heavy to open when full. Will my kids be able to open it? Anyone regret installing a tall pull-out pantry?



clipped on: 11.08.2012 at 12:37 am    last updated on: 11.08.2012 at 12:37 am

LED recessed cans guide for kitchen ...

posted by: davidtay on 01.30.2012 at 01:27 am in Lighting Forum

A collection of tips/ answers
Since kitchens have higher lighting requirements, I like to use 35 lumen per sq ft as a rule to compute the number of lights. If there are additional sources of light that will be used, the output (lumens not watts) from those sources can be deducted from the total.

Placement/ layout
1. Cans should be > 24 to 30 inches from the wall (on center). Most countertop spaces have upper cabinets (typically ~ 12" deep) + crown molding. The edge of the can may be spaced ~ 12" away from the edge of the crown molding (if present or cabinet if there is no crown molding) making the average distance between 26 to 30 inches.

2. Assuming the need for a fairly uniformly lit space @ 35 lumens per sq ft, the cans may have to be spaced closer together - between 3 - 4 ft apart (if all general lighting is provided by recessed lights). A fairly regular pattern is preferable to a random layout.

3. The actual layout of cans will be impacted by the location of ceiling joists, HVAC ducting, electrical wiring, plumbing, ceiling height, fire suppression sprinklers and other obstructions above the ceiling.

The Cree LR6 series lamps do not dim as well as the later models (CR6, ...). ELV dimmers probably work better with LR6 than incandescent dimmers since the total load of the lights may not meet the minimum load requirement for the incandescent dimmer.

Dimmers such as the Lutron Diva CL dimmers work well. The max output is 95%.

Some Choices (in order of preference) and notes
Cree CR6 or ECO-575 (Home Depot branded CR6)
ECO4-575 (Home Depot branded Cree CR4 4" recessed light)
The above are only available in 2700k light color.

Cree LR6 series - including the LE6.

The Cree CR6 and LR6 lamps will not fit into 5" housings.

The standard LR6 behaves more like a surface mount than a recessed light as the LED emitters are close to the surface and the recess is shallow. Some may not like the amount of light spillage (standard LR6).

There is a higher output version of the LR6 that has a much deeper recess.

To prevent the Cree lamps from falling out, the 3 prongs have to be fully extended and a slight clockwise twist made when push installing. The slight clockwise twist will ensure that the prongs are fully extended.

The Cree lamps are currently the best available today (2012).

Sylvania RT-6, RT-4. The lights could be easier to install than Cree lamps as they utilize the torsion spring mechanism. However, the lights do not look as pleasant as the Cree lamps.

The Cree and Sylvania lamps do outperform 26W CFLs (and incandescents) in a standard recessed can in terms of light spread and output as the standard bulb in a can solution traps a significant amount of light. The Cree and Sylvania recessed lamp solutions referenced above have all the LED elements facing outwards so that the effective light output is higher.

The CRI (Color Rendition Index) of Cree and Sylvania recessed lamps > 80.

There is no warm up time required for Cree recessed lamps, unlike CFL light bulbs.

Most recessed lighting is used with flat ceilings. Sloped ceilings would require special solutions such as the LE6 or some other form of lighting (i.e. -non recessed lighting).

Some common objections to recessed can lights stem from
1. looks and performance of traditional can lights (standard bulb in a can)
2. swiss cheese effect from too many holes.


clipped on: 11.05.2012 at 06:37 pm    last updated on: 11.05.2012 at 06:37 pm

undercabinet lighting for open shelving?

posted by: htracey on 10.29.2012 at 10:12 am in Kitchens Forum

We are going to have only open shelving for upper cabinets. This is an attempt to keep the kitchen feeling more open (small kitchen). We figure if we don't like it we can always add upper cabinets later!

SO here is my question: I still want undercabinet lighting, but without real cabinets, I don't know how to hide the hardware! I know you could put it in the wall, but that would mean tearing the walls all apart and drilling through all the studs (and also mean that hubby would kill me!). Does anybody have any ideas? I have beem looking at some LED options that are very small that might work, but LED is usually a very harsh & cold light...


clipped on: 10.29.2012 at 08:33 pm    last updated on: 10.29.2012 at 08:33 pm

Finished Kitchen - 20 pounds of sand in a 10 pound bucket

posted by: mamadadapaige on 10.29.2012 at 08:19 am in Kitchens Forum

Not sure if you remember last spring when I was working on the layout of my kitchen... super long list of stuff I had to get in there and a very challenging floorplan with a chimney and two staircases to work around.

You were all so helpful during that time and more recently too with lighting decisions.

My number one priority was seating for four and also being able to have the kids work with me - the peninsula allows both of those and it is working out SO well. I also love having so much more natural light coming in with two new windows (although the windows mean less wall cabinet space but I love having the light so I would still opt for this).

Here are some before pictures:
And After Pictures






clipped on: 10.29.2012 at 11:43 am    last updated on: 10.29.2012 at 11:44 am

RE: Toe kick drawers - worth it or a waste? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: loves2cook4six on 02.12.2011 at 03:14 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have them as well and love them too However, my cabinets were custom built and the toe kick area of the cabinets was incorporated into the bottom drawers making them deeper.

This is my can storage

Can Storage

and this is how they look from the side:


Excuse the dust, these were taken during construction. These open by just hooking your toe under the trim and pulling. You can push them shut with your foot as well.


clipped on: 10.18.2012 at 11:50 am    last updated on: 10.18.2012 at 11:50 am

RE: Who has toekick drawers and do you like them? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: chicagoans on 11.06.2011 at 09:09 pm in Kitchens Forum

I was thinking what marcolo said. I saved pictures of someone's and I apologize because I can't remember whose kitchen it is. (I do remember they have GREAT cabinets!)

This is a good side view that shows how the toe kick was cut out of (or built into) the drawer:


clipped on: 10.18.2012 at 11:44 am    last updated on: 10.18.2012 at 11:44 am

RE: hood guidance please? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: amcook on 08.30.2010 at 06:17 pm in Appliances Forum

There have been several discussions about hood choices in just the last couple of week so you guys might want to use the search function and read up on those. I say this not to be an a** but as a friendly suggestion since some people who regularly read and contribute here may get tired of answering the questions and simply not reply.

That said, I'll try to recap some of the general concepts and suggestions. Vent systems generally consist of four components: hood, filter, blower, ducts. Ducts are self explanatory so I will simply say to make sure they are sized correctly to the blower and possibly filter/insert. The remaining three elements can be purchases separately or together. In some cases, like Vent-a-Hood, they must be purchased together since it's an integral system by design. I'll go over each of the three parts as an overview since there seems to be some confusion.

Blowers can be internal, inline, or remote. Internal blowers are blowers that are built into the hood and filter unit or in some cases into a filter insert that can be used with a custom hood. In general the most cost effective solution is to buy an internal blower in a combined hood/filter/blower system. This is typically cheaper from both a component and installation cost standpoint. My "cheaper" statement must be qualified with: "with the exception of Vent-a-Hood". Vent-a-Hood is a patented design that they charge a pretty steep premium for. As a general rule of thumb, the amount of cfm you'll need is 1 cfm for every 100BTU/hr which means for 100k BTU/hr total power, you'll need 1k cfm. This measure largely depends on the type of cooking you typically do and the shape/size of hood. It can also depend on placement, e.g. island placement would require higher cfm to be as effective. The differences between inline, remote, or internal is basically one of installation condition and noise. Internal blowers obviously generate more noise in the living space but the perceptual affect is arguable.

The hood is the part you see. It typically provides a volume of space to capture smoke so that it can be pulled out by the blower, through the filter. The purpose is containment. Standard recommendation is to overhang the hood about 3" left and right (also front and back for island install) if possible. That means the hood will be 6" larger total than the size of your range. This is often ignored by sales people because they know that most buyers have heartburn over the hood price. A lot of this depends on if you stirfry, pan fry, saute, or deep fry a lot. Also if you have a grill on the rangetop. If you don't do any of these regularly then you can probably get a hood the same size as your range provided it's a standard wall location with cabinets on both sides.

The filter (also called "inserts") is the part that goes inside the hood. There are basically three types of filters: baffles, mesh, and centrifugal. Baffles is probably the most common for high end home and commercial restaurant use. It's not patented so most manufacturers have baffle filters. Mesh filters use to be standard for home hoods but they aren't popular today due to the fact that they decrease efficiency very drastically if not cleaned very regularly. Also, buildup will eventually require the mesh to be replaced. Both mesh and baffles operate by providing a surface for vapors to condense on. The difference is baffles provide solid surfaces that grease can drip off of into a capture container where a mesh filter holds onto it in the same space the air flows through. The third is what Vent-a-Hood uses which is basically to spin the grease to the inside of a housing. The housing holds the grease and needs to be removed to be cleaned. I've used all three and prefer baffles.

To summarize the possible combos:
1. hood, filter, and blower all separate
2. hood/filter unit with separate blower
3. filter insert with internal blower as one unit (typically used with custom or built-in hoods)
4. All three together.

Most hoods come with a filter or both filter and blower. I'm surprised you have not found any single units with all three since most major manufacturers offer single unit solutions. Internal blowers tend to be around the 600-900 cfm range. At 1200cfm, choices tend to lean towards inline or remote blowers. It does not sound like you are interested in a custom hood or super high 1200+ cfm so a single combined unit is probably your best bet to stay in budget.

Without knowing the type of cooking you do, it's hard to know how much venting power you'll need but I'd say at least 600cfm with either a 36" or 42" with an internal blower. If you've got the room, I'd go with the 42" since it's not that much more. If you regularly stirfry or saute, I'd suggest 900-1000cfm in a 42" hood. As I said before, I prefer baffle filters.

Good luck.. hope this helps.


clipped on: 10.09.2012 at 03:04 pm    last updated on: 10.09.2012 at 03:05 pm

DIY Soapstone People Show Your Counters !

posted by: enduring on 03.01.2012 at 10:17 am in Kitchens Forum

For those who asked about DYI soapstone counters on Angie_DYI 's post (new soapstone in her backyard) inquiring if there has been a post to show DYI counter...

Lets show them.

First counter installed, small one that was very pretty:
Option 3 Backsplash Tile, Cream or off white cracked glaze shiny ceramic tile. Rather large for my purposes I believe. I like this color and texture, very nice.

Large sink portion with seam down the center that Dorado pre cut for me that was very good! I glued! This is before I had a local fabricator come out and cut my sink hole:

Recent install of several scraps I glued together to complete my "nook". No factory cut seam here but take my word for it, you can't tell the diff with my cut and glue. It is very good. I am proud. I still need to caulk in place and put a tile backsplash to finish it off:

My other short wall area with 2 pieces installed:

Glamour shot with my marble backsplash:

Whats Next?
I've got 30sf of SS remnants that I am going to use in my bathroom remodel, which is just off the kitchen. I will make my own soapstone sink. I've got plenty of material to practice.


Marble backsplash -- beautiful!
clipped on: 10.04.2012 at 08:50 pm    last updated on: 10.04.2012 at 08:51 pm

Built in rice cooker?

posted by: justmakeit on 10.02.2012 at 05:01 pm in Appliances Forum

We eat a ton of rice, especially since my husband has celiac disease, and I am wedded to my rice cooker. But it's a honking big thing sitting on my counter, and I'm wondering if there's such a thing as a built in rice cooker. Ever heard of that?


clipped on: 10.02.2012 at 05:02 pm    last updated on: 10.02.2012 at 05:02 pm

RE: How deep are your open shelves? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: pps7 on 12.03.2010 at 12:08 am in Kitchens Forum

Wow, what a great space. I much prefer it without the cabinets. I think open shelves would be great and would preserve the airy feel. Ours are 11".




clipped on: 09.23.2012 at 10:54 pm    last updated on: 09.23.2012 at 10:54 pm

Copper countertops a resale success! (retroactive reveal)

posted by: circuspeanut on 09.12.2012 at 09:40 am in Kitchens Forum

Well, we put our beloved bungalow up for sale last week. (A tip for the wise: NEVER allow 2 weeks to finish painting the exterior of your house yourself.) Those of you who walked me through the remodel of my kitchen 4 years ago know how much I adore it, and it's a wrench to let it go. So, despite my dislike of "reveals", here it is as a last hurrah.

I feared that my DIY copper countertops & vintage stove/fridge would turn people off, but to the contrary, folks LOVED them. We got 6 offers in the first 2 days on the market and were under contract for well over the asking price in 3. I suppose another point of this post is to point out that DIY need not be a buyer turn-off, nor is the dearth of granite and stainless steel -- hopefully a reassuring data tidbit for those considering something new and different but gnawing fingernails over the standard cautious "neutral for resale" advice.

Those who know my kitchen will immediately see that we replaced our O'Keefe & Merritt with a Chambers range for the sale. Great story: I bought the Chambers locally from Craigslist, and as things turned out, the seller was a Kitchen Forum member as well. Small world, even up here in the wilds of the Northeast! We had a laugh over the awkwardness of meeting someone in person only known formerly via an unusual online handle.

And as luck would have it, the house we purchased had a wonderful vintage GE fridge, so we were able to swap that out and keep our Liebherr, too.

Our realtor took great kitchen photos for the listings. For those who've only seen bits and pieces in my posts, here's the kitchen in its entirety:

Floors: vintage douglas fir, refinished with waterlox and waterbased poly
Cabinets: solid cherry inset with inlays, Heritage Custom Cabinetry, recycled from Habitat for Humanity and re-customized to fit the space
Countertops: DIY roofing copper and copper bar
Sink: Whitehaus 501 27" fireclay
All hardware: vintage from eBay
Faucets, main sink: Moen Aberdeen and Moen AquaPur filter in Polished Copper
Facuet, prep sink: Kohler Essex in Vibrant Brazen Bronze
Lighting: fixtures from Schoolhouse Electric with vintage glass shades
Backsplash: New England Art Tile in color Harvest
Stove: Chambers 90-C (formerly O'Keefe & Merritt 600)
Hood: Sirius 901 insert, tile & design all DIY
Fridge: 1950's General Electric (formerly Liebherr 30")
Paint color: BM Cambridge Heights in matte Aura

Again, thank you all, collectively, for the wonderful insights and advice. I look forward to depending heavily upon you as I embark on this next kitchen remodel in our new old house!


clipped on: 09.22.2012 at 11:08 am    last updated on: 09.22.2012 at 11:08 am

RE: Kobe 36" hood? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: akchicago on 09.21.2012 at 08:46 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi Kailaemiko - the way I would narrow down the Kobe undercabinet hood choices is first to look for hoods that have baffle filters (not mesh). Baffle filters are more efficient, while mesh filters tend to clog quickly with grease. Second I would look for a hood that is at least 24" deep. Anything less deep will not cover your front burners well to exhaust. Out of the Kobe 36" undercabinet hood models, those 2 requirements are in the CH00-1, CH-101 and CH-03. (A couple of those look from the pics like they are chimney style hoods, not undercabinet, but actually the chimney piece is optional, and they are undercabinet hoods).

The next thing I would look at would be the cfm requirements for your range top. You didn't say what it was. Is it gas or electric? Do you know the total btu's? That will help you figure out how powerful a hood you need to get.

And finally I would ensure that your exhaust duct from the kitchen to out of the house matches in diameter to the hood you are choosing. So, if your duct is 8" diameter, that will fit most hoods. If your duct is 6" in diameter, you will have fewer hoods to choose from. If you install a hood to a 6" duct, but the hood needs an 8" duct, you will have a very noisy hood, and one that is less effective, through no fault of the hood. If you are still in construction of your kitchen, you can make sure your contractor installs the correct size duct.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kobe Undercabinet Hoods


clipped on: 09.21.2012 at 09:41 am    last updated on: 09.21.2012 at 09:42 am

RE: Did your fabricator understand about postive reveal? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: circuspeanut on 09.20.2012 at 07:27 pm in Kitchens Forum

Both of my sinks have positive reveals, LOVE them. They're harder to get right, thus the fabricator reluctance, I suspect.

We made a cutting board for the prep sink, just as you describe:


clipped on: 09.20.2012 at 11:41 pm    last updated on: 09.20.2012 at 11:41 pm

Oops! picture didn't appear... (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: viva99 on 03.17.2011 at 11:31 am in Kitchens Forum

Sorry this is so big.



clipped on: 09.08.2012 at 11:51 am    last updated on: 09.08.2012 at 11:51 am

RE: Prep sink in a small kitchen? (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: bmorepanic on 04.29.2010 at 06:06 am in Kitchens Forum

I think your spouse is saying to plan for the family you are, not the family you wish you were. You can always spend more later, but you can't get the money back if you've spent it remodeling for a possible future that never happens.

Right now, you're thinking $500 for a sink is a budget buster. Been there! There are a couple of other budget things that you may not know - so here goes. The labor for everything will be close to the cost of "the stuff." Sometimes, if you buy inexpensive stuff, the labor can actually be more. In other words, because you buy ikea cabinets doesn't mean the drywall guy is going to charge you less than someone who bought cabinets costing 3 times as much.

Whatever you think you'll spend, you'll exceed it. If this is your first major remodeling project - it's likely you'll exceed it by 50 to 100% of your total budget.

You'll run into unexpected things. If you're moving the utilities, doing walls or replacing windows, they can have small to whopping price tags depending on your local area rates and what your municipality may require. Your house may have weird wiring, plumbing or heating. Your city may require 15 sets of architect drawn plans. What you want to do may not meet building codes.

You'll think you can do it yourself, but you guys are so busy you probably can't without incurring significant stress ON TOP OF the tremendous stress load that accompanies a remodel. And you won't know some stuff that comes from experience - like you'll probably spend at least $100 on paint.

We're almost done and have just crossed the "pain line" financially. This is partly because this remodel was forced upon us, but also partly because of decisions we made in the process. They were wonderfully thought out as far as adding to our lives, but poorly thought out as to their impact on the budget and helped along by some undiscovered water damage.

The time and money causes some relationship stress! :) In our case, we've done this before so we both know we're stressed out and a bit snippy. We know that will pass.

You sound like you're carrying an internal picture of "home" and what you'd like your kitchen to be. I'd like mine to be 16 x 24 feet with windows on 3 sides and a big french range, but that it's the kitchen or budget I have. Seeing who you are and not being driven by an internal magazine picture is the hardest part.


clipped on: 09.08.2012 at 11:35 am    last updated on: 09.08.2012 at 11:35 am

RE: What is the 'One True Kitchen? I Want Photo Examples Please (Follow-Up #50)

posted by: marcolo on 11.19.2011 at 05:48 pm in Kitchens Forum

And the One True Kitchen spoke to her, making her heart sing:

I. I am the One True Kitchen, who brought thee out of the land of cheap builder's grade oak and shiny brass. Thou shalt not install any strange kitchens before Me; nor paint thy walls a non-neutral color; nor make for thyself any likeness of the Sopranos' kitchen, or early '90s Tuscan. Nor shalt thou apply any graven appliques upon thy Shaker cabinets. Thou shalt not prefer other kitchen styles, for I, the One True Kitchen, am a jealous Kitchen, visiting iniquity on them that hate Me.

II. Thou shalt not take any countertop unless it came with veins.

III. Remember the annual Crown Point holiday sale; eleven months shalt thou pay full retail; but on the twelfth month thou shalt negotiate, when it shall be surprisingly affordable.

IV. Honor thy subway tile and thy farmhouse sink, that thou shall not tire of thy kitchen for many days.

V. Thou shalt not spill, especially wine or lemon juice unless thou buyest soapstone.

VI. Thou shalt not commit to any slab unless thou hast tested it first with ketchup.

VII. Thou shalt steal everything from Christopher Peacock's website that isn't tied down and copy it exactly.

VIII. Thou shalt not bear to go without a false door unless it is up against a neighboring cabinet.

IX. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's colorful countertop; or her colorful backsplash; or her colorful paint; or her stained cabinets; or her dreadful four-inch strip of granite before the tile starts, what was she thinking.

X. Thou shalt not covet anything that is thy neighbor's, for it is not timeless and classic and she has no taste.


clipped on: 09.03.2012 at 02:46 pm    last updated on: 09.03.2012 at 02:46 pm

RE: Grey walls -- gorgeous or cold? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: pipdog on 09.03.2012 at 12:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

Nimbus in a bed/bath:


Gray shade.
clipped on: 09.03.2012 at 01:58 pm    last updated on: 09.03.2012 at 01:58 pm

RE: Pantry photos/ pics of pantries (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: holligator on 02.08.2009 at 10:07 am in Kitchens Forum

Good idea for a thread. I wish I had paid more attention to the design of my pantry. My focus was on the appearance, which I am pleased with, but the function could be better. If I were to do it again, I would make the cabinets a few inches shallower. They are 18" now, and I think 15" would probably work a bit better so things don't get lost in the back. I would also have had drawers, or at least pullouts, in the bottom sections of both pantry cabinets.

Here is my pantry wall...

And here are the insides, before they got overloaded...


clipped on: 08.28.2012 at 01:02 am    last updated on: 08.28.2012 at 01:02 am