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RE: Bluestar questions for Bluestar owners (Follow-Up #28)

posted by: langour on 01.03.2013 at 02:06 pm in Appliances Forum

Happy New Year all,

I have owned the 36" SS six burner for 7-8 it.
I have the high backsplash with it...must have in my application.

Just a few comments:
1) Its a Ferrari, fast, high heat - the broiler works great, the issue is the height adjustment for the racks, with the current broiling pan...they are either too high or too low...I therefore use a 1/2 sheet pan under my broiling fine.
2) Wok cooking...OMG...if you have a hand hammered steel are in good as any asian restaurant...BTW I live in Oakland, CA...I eat in SF and Oakland China Towns alot.
3) Huge oven - full sheet pan - cook anything
4) Relatively easy to clean - with the way I cook, I have to break the top down @ 1/month and clean the whole thing.

1) Fit and finish is not Wolf...some sharp edges, one or two knobs a little loose...I dont mind...easy fixes.
2) One oven bottom support came loose...aluminum rivets broke...need to replace...its the angled piece for the removable bottom in the back under fan...its probably my fault, I left a pizza stone on the oven floor for several years...probably overheated the bottom.
3) Ignitors...major issue for many people...the complaint is they break...yes they do. I think I know the problem...after many replacements...its operator error. The heat from the front burners will sometimes run away from you...especially if you've been drinking :-P (ie careless) and dont pay attention. The ignitor sits in the flame...the insulator is ceramic. When you have a boil over, the 212 deg water comes into contact with the 400+ deg ceramic...crack! Ive simply come to terms with my Ferrari...I buy @ 6 ignitors a year and replace as big deal.
4) Ignitor module - it broke on me once...several years ago...I bought a new one, replaced it...its been fine ever since.
5) Oven cleaning...not bad, but its a huge oven, so it takes a little longer, I get a little dirty...oh cast iron butterflied chicken is unbeatable.

I love this will change the way you cook.

I installed my range, had to recalibrate my oven initially...very easy...small screw in oven dial shaft.

When friends come over...they always want to help out cooking...I havent been able to figure that one out yet :-D


note re ignitors. would Tim have to keep fixing these?
clipped on: 01.04.2013 at 05:28 pm    last updated on: 01.04.2013 at 05:28 pm

RE: Noise from roof-mounted blower? How bad is it? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: billy_g on 12.01.2011 at 08:30 pm in Appliances Forum

We have a 1400 CFM Abbaka blower mounted on the roof just above our master bedroom. The duct is in the wall between our bedroom and closet. First, we're rarely in our bedroom when the blower is running, but even then we hear very little noise. I surrounded the duct with rockwool before the drywall went up, and we have a ton of insulation at the roof (closed cell spray foam plus dense-packed fiberglass Spider insulation.

It's not a problem for us. The Abbaka blower is quieter than the blowers from Broan and othes, so this helps.



we need more insulation?
clipped on: 01.03.2013 at 12:32 pm    last updated on: 01.03.2013 at 12:32 pm

RE: Range hood for 48in CC with grill (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: zartemis on 06.10.2012 at 03:38 am in Appliances Forum

Will you go with a 27" deep (front-to-back) hood? And by 30" inch high do you mean that is how high over the range it will be mounted (if so, that's good).

Provided you have good ducting (not too long, nor too many bends), the 1266 should be plenty unless you really do plan to run all burners with open pots plus the grill simultaneously and want to be able to vent that.

If you are considering going with the 2016 fan, check with fantech about what it pulls at the lowest setting (and also check your local code and MUA issues).

Ours isn't the scale of yours, but here's a data point:

We have the Abbaka 1400 external blower, with a 36" range and 42" hood. We never need to run it on high and wish it was lower at the lowest setting. We should have gotten the 1000cfm one. At high, it was so powerful it sucked up some of the metal panels surrounding the baffles (Modernaire, our hood maker, replaced them with heavier duty ones). There is so much air flow that the baffle noise is very loud on high and higher than we'd like on low (if you take out the baffles, you hardly hear a thing - because our blower is remote and there is a silencer as well, so nearly 100% of the noise is air-over-baffle noise).

Also, if you do go with 2016, get a hood with the largest square footage of baffle area possible. Our hood has spacers which reduce the baffle area, increasing the noise. We plan to take out those spacers and get a custom baffle to expand the area to reduce the noise. (yes, that will reduce the air speed -- but so would getting a lower CFM fan which the hood is rated for).


is our hood 27" deep?

check noise without baffles

clipped on: 01.03.2013 at 12:25 pm    last updated on: 01.03.2013 at 12:25 pm

RE: BS vs Wolf (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: alexr on 07.22.2012 at 12:48 am in Appliances Forum

So all the burners on a Bluestar no matter what size - can be adjusted at their simmer setting. That is, you can 'fine tune' the lowest flame setting of any burner and then it will keep that setting when the knob is turned to simmer.

It requires you or someone to slide the knob off, and use a small flat blade screwdriver to lower the simmer flame. This adjustment doesn't affect the high full open flame setting. The second adjustment is the air shutter, which mixes air in to the flow of gas going to the burner. Also very easy.

You can set the flame so low that it barely pop up from the hole, but does not cause the ignitor to re-spark.

Anyway, that can be a very small flame.. If you set it too low not enough gas comes out of the burner to light every hole and the flames 'wander' from hole to hole and eventually the ignitor will spark. You get the idea.

Then it's just a question of how many holes- the smaller burner has about 35 flame holes and the other sizes add 4 or 8 more holes on each arm of the 'star' burner, or an additional 32 for the 15K and an extra 32 holes for the 22K.

The largest 22k Bluestar burner's simmer produces about the same heat as the lowest simmer setting on a Capital Culinarian- a competing open burner range.


clipped on: 01.02.2013 at 09:21 pm    last updated on: 01.02.2013 at 09:21 pm

RE: Bluestar simmer - needs adjustment right? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: alexr on 10.24.2012 at 02:26 am in Appliances Forum

I also agree with everyone that has written so far. It is surprising how a small adjustment can make such a difference. It's easier to do the adjustment in a slightly darkened room, so that you can see the flame better.

Do the little 'trial' test that Stooxie suggests- slowly turning the knob back towards 'off' until the flames barely float but the ignitor doesn't start clicking. That will give you an idea of how low you can then adjust all your burners...when the knob is turned back to simmer.

To do the adjustment requires removing the knob. Rather than explain it, I'll link to buffalotina's post

Here is a link that might be useful: Bluestar Simmer Fixed Do's and Don't


go to this whole post if need more info.
clipped on: 01.02.2013 at 09:18 pm    last updated on: 01.02.2013 at 09:18 pm

RE: Bluestar simmer - needs adjustment right? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: stooxie on 10.23.2012 at 09:45 pm in Appliances Forum

Here's a really simple test: put the knob on "high" and then turn RIGHT slowly as if to turn off. That will give you an infinite amount of control to lower that flame as low as you like. If it is much lower than your "low" then the valve needs to be adjusted as racmrc suggests.

You should be able to have a service call make the adjustments if you prefer not to.

On simmer you should have just little blue dots.



clipped on: 01.02.2013 at 09:17 pm    last updated on: 01.02.2013 at 09:18 pm

RE: Bluestar simmer - needs adjustment right? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: racmrc on 10.23.2012 at 05:20 pm in Appliances Forum

Whoever installed your BS should have performed two adjustments:

1. Adjust the air shutters on all burners. This adjustment will allow for the proper amount of air/gas (controls the color of flames, lowers lifting flames, etc)

2. Adjust the minimum/low flame on all burners. This is done by removing the front control knobs and inserting a small flat screwdriver. Then turn the screw to adjust the burner flame height from high/low positions (this screw can initially be tight so a good screwdriver should be used).

The default settings on our rangetop had the low settings a bit high. They were adjusted down to only a small blue dot on each burner hole without any clicking. On the small (9k) burner you should be able to hold you hand over the burner when on low and it should not burn you - plus you can also raise the center round part of the grate if needed.


clipped on: 01.02.2013 at 09:16 pm    last updated on: 01.02.2013 at 09:17 pm

RE: help please with ventilation (Follow-Up #30)

posted by: breezy_2 on 08.02.2008 at 09:05 pm in Appliances Forum

malhgold and kates,

You both had a number of points and questions so I won't go back to see whose was whose so forgve me if I misspeak. And again, clinresga is directly on point and thorough with the advice given so far but I would add a few observations.

Presitge also offers a wall mount light dimmer and fan control system. We ordered it but got the ones mounted in the liner. We did not get charged for the wall mount controls and kept the one sent. It has been just fine but I would agree the wall mount would have been a bit nicer.

I have heard many on these forums argue that internal blowers are definitely more effective CFM for CFM than remote (whether in-line or roof/wall mount). That said, I would over size CFMs however necessary to go remote if possible. To piggyback on to one of clinresga's comments and add my experience too, in most cases, remote blower systems are SIGNIFICANTLY quieter than internal and that should not be taken lightly. Having had both, I can say that comfortly and with conviction. My current 2500 CFM roof mount system (no silencer) is much quieter on high than my previous 900 CFM internal system was on low and I am not exaggerating (and my previous system was a very good system so no complaints or fault as to manufacturer IMO). Having a conversation at normal levels in front of my current system on high is pretty effortless but conversations over the 900CFM internal blower on medium was a chore. I haven't responded top this post in a while so fogive me if I have repeated myself here but it has been such a difference for us.

I said in most cases. I believe malhgold mentioned venting directly through to an outside wall. Often this means a very short if any duct run. I have generally read on GW that it takes a minimum of about 6 feet of duct to get any effective noise reduction going remote. And yes its true that the wall/roof mounted termination caps/housing are pretty large.

I think kates mentioned having a custom cabinet built and mounted liner. I did too. As I understand it, most cabinet shops build these units so that the mounting surface for the liner is flush or even with the bottom of the cabinet unit itself. I actually had mine made so that the mounting surface was recessed about 4 inches into the cabinet making the whole cabinet enclosure unit effectively a part of the capture area. I say the norm is that these are normally built flush b/c I have heard descriptions here and I spent a lot time drawing this specification out and explaining this to my cabinet guy but when the cabinets came in, the mounting surface of the hood was flush with the bottom of the enclosure so I sent it back and he had to rework it. Think of it as a smoke lip (as that term is used in building fireplaces) for lack of better words. Seems simple and insignificant but the recess is a very effective method. I hope my description of the set up is understandable enough and I cannot put enough emphasis on its effectiveness from a performance and appearance perspective.

I have been very happy with the Prestige product so far and their folks were great to work with as well but I did not know about MA when I was going through the process and, from clinrega's comments, they sound great too. I think clinresga and I both are avid fans of more is better for CFMs (within reason).

HTH! and good luck!


"minimum of 6 feet of duct run"?
clipped on: 01.30.2009 at 12:05 am    last updated on: 01.30.2009 at 12:06 am

RE: help please with ventilation (Follow-Up #28)

posted by: clinresga on 08.02.2008 at 12:23 pm in Appliances Forum

No, you're doing fine. If you go with an internal blower, the only other things you'd need are the ductwork, which your HVAC guy would do. I think you might still need a backflow damper, which just prevents outside breezes from blowing backwards down your ductwork, Jeff can confirm.

An external blower is definitely NOT needed to vent outside. Just remember, all you are doing is blowing air. There must be a fan somewhere that will do this. It can be at the "beginning" of the ductwork (inside your hood), in the "middle" (an inline fan in the attic), or at the "end" (on the roof where the duct exits the house).

Most folks use the internal blower in the hood, as you have been discussing. It's a much simpler installation. The only advantage of the inline or external blower is reducing the noise of the fan motor by moving it somewhere outside the kitchen. Otherwise, an internal and external blower of the same cfm rating should perform roughly the same. So, unless you are obsessing about noise levels and are willing to deal with the extra complexity of mounting a blower located remotely, it's fine to stick with an internal blower. Then it should just be one order to MA and you're done. All the stuff I was talking about was if you were going to do a remotely mounted inline blower, so it's unneccessary for your configuration. Just trust Jeff to get it right!


clipped on: 01.30.2009 at 12:03 am    last updated on: 01.30.2009 at 12:04 am

RE: help please with ventilation (Follow-Up #26)

posted by: clinresga on 08.02.2008 at 10:00 am in Appliances Forum

kateskouros and mahlgold:
Options are a curse and a blessing. With Modern-Aire, you really have many options:

1) buy a hood liner with an internal blower mounted inside the hood. This would all come from Modern-Aire

2) buy a hood liner but with an inline blower (the kind that mounts in the attic). You would get a Modern Aire hood and then purchase the blower and needed accessories. You CAN, but do not have to buy the blower from Modern Aire. This is what I did. I chose to use a Fantech blower and silencer based on my prior experience with Fantech. It happens that this is a blower that Jeff at Modern Aire also liked (and I'd certainly recommend it--it's the FKD10XL blower and the LD10 silencer).

I ended up buying the Fantech from MA even though Jeff suggested I look online for it. I do think I could have saved several hundred dollars in cost and shipping had I done that, but I was on a tight timeline, and did not want to take the risk of buying equipment from an unknown internet vendor and finding out that I got the wrong thing. So, I paid closer to list price and shipping from Cal to Georgia, but had the luxury of Jeff telling me exactly what I needed.

3) hood liner plus external blower (mounts on roof). Jeff had suggested the Abakka low profile roof mount unit. We elected to go inline.

Regarding the infinitely variable, remotely mounted controls: this is a feature I love about the Modern Aire. Two advantages: the continuously variable speed control allows you to adjust the fan speed exactly to what you need. That's particularly useful (versus for example the Vent a Hood we have at the lake) when you want a very low setting--say just simmering something. The VAH even at low is annoyingly loud. The MA hood, with an external fan and silencer, should be close to inaudible on a very low setting.

Having the switches for fan and lights on the wall is also nice. I'm tall enough that to see the three switches on my VAH hood I have to bend over and then crane my neck to look into the hood. Contrast that to reaching to hit the switch on the wall next to the range. A little point, but a nice plus with hoods that allow remote location.

Again, advantage for me with MA has been that one person has helped make all my choices. I tortured Jeff for weeks with emails with all kinds of questions which he patiently answered. They made sure I ordered all the requisite accessories for the blower (backdraft damper, clamps, rheostat, etc). And they were able to build a hood which was exactly to my specs--we went with a 64'' width, NOT a standard hood width, to go over our 55'' Lacanche range.

Again, I sound like a MA crony, and I'm not, I have NO personal interest in them!! But I have had a very good experience with them. I am confident other companies can do something similar, but I greatly prefer dealing with a small company like MA or Independent or Prestige rather than trying to get customer svc from a huge company like Broan. Or, if my assessment is correct, from your clueless appliance company.



clipped on: 01.30.2009 at 12:02 am    last updated on: 01.30.2009 at 12:02 am

RE: xenon vs. LED vs. fluorescent undercab lighting (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: capecodder on 12.21.2008 at 01:07 pm in Kitchens Forum

Xenon here too, Kichler. High and low switch, and we dim them all the wired. Love them...


clipped on: 01.29.2009 at 11:28 pm    last updated on: 01.29.2009 at 11:28 pm

RE: xenon vs. LED vs. fluorescent undercab lighting (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: craig00 on 12.21.2008 at 12:08 pm in Kitchens Forum

Seagull lighting 12" xenon light bars. They get warm, not hot and IMO give far superior lighting than florescent, which I really dislike. High/low/off switch is fine and no dimmer is necessary.


clipped on: 01.29.2009 at 11:27 pm    last updated on: 01.29.2009 at 11:27 pm

RE: xenon vs. LED vs. fluorescent undercab lighting (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: mojua on 12.20.2008 at 03:59 pm in Kitchens Forum

Wife and I met with lighting designer this morning. Told her that our builder suggested fluorescent. She said NO WAY, and steered us toward xenon. Said they cast a 'better' light, and that they're no where near as hot as people expect them to be...guess we took her word for it, and went with the following...

Here is a link that might be useful: American Lighting Xenon


clipped on: 01.29.2009 at 11:26 pm    last updated on: 01.29.2009 at 11:26 pm

Please help me pick a vent hood color!

posted by: erikanh on 01.26.2009 at 02:34 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm at decision-making overload. I'm ready to start flipping coins or throwing darts or something so that I won't have to make any more decisions.

Please help me choose a color for my vent hood ...

I'm getting a Modern Aire PS26 wall mount. Trying to decide between a black powder coat finish to match my cooktop or a stainless steel color. Both would have mirror finish stainless steel bands with rivets and pots rails on the sides:


Here's the cooktop:

Countertop around cooktop will be stainless steel, cabinet color is paper white and backsplash will be carrara marble slab like this, except I won't have any wall cabinets around the hood:


Double wall ovens to the right of cooktop area will look similar to this (new F&P double ovens that aren't out till next month, so don't have a photo):

Thanks in advance for any help!



2nd hood!!
clipped on: 01.27.2009 at 10:52 pm    last updated on: 01.27.2009 at 10:52 pm

Kitchen Finished Pics-need backsplash advice

posted by: lanugget on 12.09.2008 at 12:25 pm in Kitchens Forum

My kitchen is finished except for a backsplash, and I need a few ideas. I have been a longtime lurker-sometime poster over the last few months. I have gotten a lot of great ideas and tips here, the best one being to look into having the cabinets made by a local cabinet maker. The start to finish time of this project was 8 weeks, with just a few hiccups along the way. Here is a before and after photo from the same view. I think if you click on them they will take you to some more shots.

2008-09-11 012



clipped on: 12.11.2008 at 12:19 pm    last updated on: 12.11.2008 at 12:19 pm

RE: Is a backspash necessary? How about Beadboard? Pictures? (Follow-Up #16)

posted by: arlosmom on 12.11.2008 at 09:19 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi Maureen. We have a subway tile backsplash with accent tile only behind the stove, and a 4" soapstone backsplash the rest of the way around the kitchen. We're very pleased with how it looks in our old house. Here are a couple of photos:

backsplash behind range


clipped on: 12.11.2008 at 12:15 pm    last updated on: 12.11.2008 at 12:15 pm

RE: Marble - warm and cool (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: coleen3201118 on 12.10.2008 at 07:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi victoriajane - Another kitchen w/ soapstone/creamy perimeter cabinets and an island with carrara and stained cherry. I have never thought they competed. I really like the look of them together. I also got my subways to match the creamy cabinets.

Hope this helps. I don't think you should have to settle to get what "matches". Get what you love. It will look great. Good luck!


clipped on: 12.11.2008 at 12:04 pm    last updated on: 12.11.2008 at 12:04 pm

RE: Any Advice Re Modern-Aire Range Hoods? (Follow-Up #22)

posted by: clinresga on 08.20.2008 at 09:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

I had not realized that the active version of this thread was here on Kitchen, not on Appliance.

I wanted to clarify the issue of blower types. First, (patting self, kaseki, breezy, edlakin etc on back), the thread that malhgold linked to in her first post (the third one on this thread) has a ton of information including detailed discussions of the different types of blowers, advantages, disadvantages etc.

It also includes what I think is the single best post anywhere on GW on capture area and hood performance from kaseki, which I think anyone who is as obsessed with ventilation as I am should commit to memory.

Having said that, there are three options: internal, inline, and external blowers. From a performance standpoint all can be equal: for same ducting and cfm rating all should be roughly equal in ventilation. The big difference is in noise levels. Obviously the inline blowers (which are typically mounted in an attic or other unoccupied space) or external blower (usually mounted on the roof or an exterior wall) greatly reduce motor noise. However a substantial part of hood noise is airflow related and more dependent on baffle design, duct size, and cfm rating. Still, if noise is a priority, a remote blower will always outperform an internal blower. That is even more true if a silencer is used, as trailrunner notes.

By the way, on the subject of which brand of fan to use: I don't know the Thermador line but I would strongly suggest consideration of the Fantech line of blowers and silencers. They are "industry standard" and are, for example, Modern-Aire's choice for an inline blower.

They are often rebranded. In particular, the Universal Metal Industries blowers and silencer that trailrunner linked to are based on the photos almost certainly a Fantech FKD blower and LD silencer resold under their name.

Our LD10 silencer is 42'' long and about 18'' in diameter--much wider than the 10'' ductwork we are using. It's pretty much huge, but I hope it's worth the hassle of mounting.


clipped on: 12.03.2008 at 12:40 pm    last updated on: 12.03.2008 at 12:40 pm

RE: Any Advice Re Modern-Aire Range Hoods? (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: trailrunner on 08.20.2008 at 02:15 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hey Celeste. I am pleased that you are able to use the info. I can hardly wait to see your finished kitchen.

I am somewhat confused as to your question about the blower. There is the remote blower( roof mounted or outside wall) and the one right in the hood over the cooktop. The inline silencer is for the remote blower. You have to have the silencer if you get the remote blower. That is if you want the quiet aspect it involves. It is 3 ft long and the same diameter as the vent pipe ,that is hard pipe NOT FLEX. It has neoprene lined fittings on each end of it. There are good pics and descriptions at the link below.

I am coming back Oct 22-Nov5 so I KNOW I will get to see you !! c

Here is a link that might be useful: info on in-line silencers and blowers


clipped on: 12.03.2008 at 12:37 pm    last updated on: 12.03.2008 at 12:37 pm

RE: Any Advice Re Modern-Aire Range Hoods? (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: klb_2000 on 08.20.2008 at 02:31 am in Kitchens Forum

Hello there! I do have a Modern Aire hood, and have posted comments on other threads that you've probably already read, and which francy has summed up. My primary reason for going with the MA was because I loved how it looks, and it DOES look great--it always gets the first compliment when people visit my kitchen. But I'm definitely happy with the performance, too. I was getting a little grease drip in one corner at the back of the hood, although it hasn't been a problem lately so maybe I finally got the baffles cleaned up! It does a fine job sucking--when I am cooking anything smoky, you can see the smoke curving back in and up the hood. It must do a pretty good job, because I don't end up with much grease on stuff (francy, maybe that was some one else's complaint?)--not even on the spatulas etc. I have hanging on my backsplash. Not that I'm frying chicken every night by any means. All in all, it does everything I would expect it to do--I haven't been disappointed in performance at all.

Here are a couple pictures. In the side view, I tried to get a picture of how the smoke pulls up, but you can't really see it too well.

Good luck with your decision! :)


stuff in glass cabs looks good!!
clipped on: 12.03.2008 at 12:36 pm    last updated on: 12.03.2008 at 12:37 pm

RE: Any Advice Re Modern-Aire Range Hoods? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: trailrunner on 08.20.2008 at 12:51 am in Kitchens Forum

I have the 54" Tradewind liner in a custom wood hood that my cab guy built. Mine is 1400 cfm and has baffles and remote blower ( Thermador ) and inline silencer with neoprene rings .

I spent months looking into hoods. We do lots of stirfry and have the deep fat fryer. This is what I know. You want the Thermador blower, no other brand will suck as well. You want baffles, they are quieter than mesh and they are a breeze to clean. You HAVE TO HAVE an inline silencer if you want the quiet and the neoprene is the thing that prevents vibration. My cooktop is 36" wide and the fryer is 12" wide and they are 6" apart on the countertop. My hood is exactly at the same width. I haven't had one drop of grease anywhere on the surrounding surfaces...not one drop. The wood hood and the walls and the open shelves are all pristine 1 1/2 years after install. Only dust. So that is what you need at least , I couldn't do anything wider. It is very deep also to the counter but not 27". We have no HOGS at all since we have this hood. Heat,Odors,Grease,Steam.

Good luck ladies...and Francy don't you be puttin' all the responsibility on Celeste ! :)


clipped on: 12.03.2008 at 12:35 pm    last updated on: 12.03.2008 at 12:35 pm

RE: 1200 CFM Independent Overkill for 6 Burner Capital Range? (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: clinresga on 07.20.2008 at 02:54 pm in Appliances Forum

weissman: we've batted this around before. It's obviously an issue of what each of us considers acceptable, but it was our experience at the lake house with a 600 cfm VAH hood over a 5 burner PGM365 Dacor cooktop that pushed me to spec a 1200 cfm Fantech remote blower and a 64'' Modern Aire hood liner over the new Lacanche in our home kitchen renovation.

If I sear hard over the 15,000 BTU burner on the Dacor (i.e. preheat pan for 5 minutes over maximum heat and then dump in meat or fish) I get smoke that temporarily overwhelms the VAH blower and spills into the kitchen. Since that's kind of how I like to cook, it was an issue for me. So, for me 600 cfm (or, per the VAH hype, "equivalent to 900 cfm with a conventional blower"--which I don't buy) was inadequate for even one burner when doing this kind of cooking. I'm hoping the 1200 cfm will be more effective (though now I have fan envy, as there is someone who has recently posted about his 2500 cfm blower--now there's a reason for makeup air!).

yoyoma: Re the continuously variable speed control--it's an option I'd consider a must if you're spending this kind of money on a vent hood. Again, this is based on my experience with our VAH, which also has a 3-speed control. The main thing a continuously variable control gives me is the option to run at a very low cfm setting, say if I'm just cooking one pot of rice. The VAH is just so darn loud even at low that I wish I could run it slower. The sound issue is also obviously why I went with a remote attic-mounted fan and the Fantech LD10 silencer. The silencer is a popular option as I know of several installations where the LD10 was used even when the blower was from a different manufacturer. For example, one appliance dealer quoted me a Wolf hood system but with the Fantech silencer.

Do beware of the good point paddy 99 makes. I know that I'm going to get significantly less than 1200 cfm given a 20' duct run and the silencer, as well as one 90 degree turn. I did consider going even higher but at least with Fantech blowers it would have necessitated going to an even larger duct size which I did not have the room to use. BTW, I assume you're aware that it's important to use the largest ducting possible, typically 10'' size.

And, as for yoyoma's choice of the Independent liner--it is by all reports a very high quality unit. My only issues with it revolves around the limited number of blower options. Their website makes it sound like you have to use their blowers. That makes sense with an in-hood unit, but I'm not sure that's really true if you're using a remote blower, which I think is the superior option. My guess is that you could use other remote blowers without problems, which would allow you to
1) use a fan with a continuously variable speed control and
2) choose an attic-mounted fan rather than a roof-mounted unit, which is what I think the Independent CFMR1400 that they sell appears to be.

Issues with roof mounts are:
1) difficulty in installing (particularly with a multistory house and/or a steeply pitched roof)
2) Potential risk of roof leaks once you punch through it with the ductwork
3) Wear and tear to the fan due to 24/7 exposure to the elements on the roof versus in a protected attic.

Well, that's all I know about hoods. Hope it helps.


clipped on: 12.01.2008 at 08:32 pm    last updated on: 12.01.2008 at 08:32 pm

RE: 2 appliances on disabled list already! (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: fenworth on 05.06.2008 at 07:24 pm in Appliances Forum

Of course it's discouraging to hear of problems like this. I hope they get resolved without too much pain.

For some reason the popular opinion here is that appliances break either within the one year warranty or after five years. Time and time again people disagree with me about buying extended warranties. Even though I point out that in my experience it's virtually a net zero cost. (A saleman gladly reduces the price of the appliance by close to the cost of the warranty because his/her commission is higher on the warranty.) I hope you "wasted" your money on an extended warranty. I know that overall I'm ahead of the game for having bought them. Most things are crap these days - protect yourself if you can!


clipped on: 05.07.2008 at 11:24 pm    last updated on: 05.07.2008 at 11:24 pm

RE: Calling Stonegirl, Kevin et al - Proper way to hone Marble?? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: florida_joshua on 05.06.2008 at 07:24 pm in Kitchens Forum

OK, the low down from doing a little research. Mind you I am not an expert with working with marble, but I do believe the info I'm giving you is correct.

First off when you chemically hone marble it will act differently depending on the makeup of the stone. So make sure the fabricator knows what he is working with because I believe different marbles will turn out completely different. This will put more texture on the stone rather than a mechanical hone which leaves the finish silky and flat.

Which leads me to the mechanical hone. This is the method most used in the industry, unless going for a certain 'look'. In my opinion mechanical is the better option if you want that smooth flat or matte look. Different shops have different techniques for honing so there is no right way as long as the finished product is what you want. So make sure you get a sample of their work before you sign the dotted line. For a fabricator this process is not difficult but takes some finesse to get the perfect sheen and a little time so you may be charged a bit more if the slabs you picked are not honed.


clipped on: 05.06.2008 at 10:12 pm    last updated on: 05.06.2008 at 10:13 pm

RE: How to write a job specification for contractors to bid on? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: mls99 on 05.01.2008 at 09:46 am in Kitchens Forum

This was mine:
1. Obtain all required permits and inspections
2. Remove and dispose of old kitchen and appliances - keeping dishwasher
3. Replace windows in dining room and kitchen, and remove/dispose of old windows and window treatments
4. Close off doorway to sitting room
5. Open up existing doorway to dining room: remove wall to dining room, and patch ceiling, floor, and walls
6. Plumbing
- Remove baseboard heat in kitchen
- Tie off plumbing for old sink, disposal, and dishwasher
- New plumbing for sink, disposal, dishwasher, fridge on inside wall
7. Electrics
- Confirm 40A circuit
- Wire up cooktop, hood, oven, microwave, dishwasher, disposal (cover control), wine fridge, fridge, toekick heater
- Wire up fluorescent lights on ceiling, undercabinet lights on inside and outside walls, incabinet lights in wall cupboards, light switches near eating bar
- Replace brown sockets with white
- Wire up 1 additional white sockets on window wall
8. Refinish floor in kitchen, dining room, sitting room
9. Clean and prepare walls
10. Build and install IKEA cabinets
11. Install appliances (cooktop, hood, oven, microwave, dishwasher, disposal, wine fridge, fridge, toekick heater)
12. Template and install countertops
13. Install drop-in sink, faucet, and undersink water filter
14. Paint ceiling and walls in kitchen, dining room, sitting room, halls
15. Install glass backsplash behind cooktop and sink

It worked well (we'd been burned a little once before on a bath remodel, where we really only thought about fixtures rather than the work involved).


clipped on: 05.05.2008 at 10:34 pm    last updated on: 05.05.2008 at 10:35 pm

RE: Toxic copper countertops? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: kkupstate on 04.30.2008 at 08:33 pm in Kitchens Forum

Maybe the link below will help you in your quest? We were *this* close to going with a copper sink and backsplash but have since changed out minds. Hey, you never know, they might still change back again...

Here is a link that might be useful: copper sheet metal


could I use this for roofing?
clipped on: 04.30.2008 at 09:08 pm    last updated on: 04.30.2008 at 09:08 pm

RE: Shaker Style Cabinets Anyone? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: frankoma on 03.30.2008 at 11:46 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's another version of Shaker, with a coved detail, from Custom Cupboards. This was not an easy to find style, a couple years ago when I was looking anyway. I saw one other manufacturer that offered this but can't remember the name. They were inset and not in the budget.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


I love this detailing!
clipped on: 03.31.2008 at 10:42 pm    last updated on: 03.31.2008 at 10:43 pm

RE: no upper cabs-- open shelving instead? (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: trailrunner on 01.18.2008 at 01:38 pm in Kitchens Forum

louisa: thanks. It is amazing the shelves are very sturdy and hold a lot of weight. The ones on the left are longer than the ones on the right. I wanted my cab guy to build shelves but he and I had a parting of the ways at the end and I went for months looking for an alternative idea. I saw these and am so glad. They are very easy to install also.

About the hood. I have a Tradewind liner. I will post pics and a link. It is 1400 cfm as I have the Caldera gas 36" cooktop and a Miele builtin deep fat fryer. You will not see anyone else with this hoodliner and I don't know why. I have posted about it for over a year and yet folks still go with VAH which has numerous problems , according to posts, and is not as efficient or quiet. I have a remote blower and inline silencer. The whole outfit is much less cost than the brands others have and it gets every singls bit of odor and grease etc when we stirfry on the 18K burner. I have never yet had to wipe down the wooden hood covering except to dust in over a year ! We cook with oil and high heat several times a week so I think that is a good test. Also we have baffles which are much quieter and easier to clean and also last forever.

If you haven't decided on a cooktop you might want to look at the Caldera. It is absolutely wonderful. There are threads on it on Appliance Forum. Good luck and I hope this helps. Would love to see pics of your space and plans. Caroline

Collin and Robert and Amanda cooking together


Collin deep frying Mahi-Mahi and Marlin for fish tacos

Here is a link that might be useful: Tradewind Hood liner


clipped on: 02.28.2008 at 05:14 pm    last updated on: 02.28.2008 at 05:14 pm

RE: Niches In Wall Behind Cooktop & In Pantry Wall--Anyone Have? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: babka on 02.27.2008 at 06:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Ours goes between the studs. There is a pull-out pantry right next to the wall so nothing could stick out past the wall more than 1/2". The electrical sockets are mounted to the stud and hidden by the wood "shelf" which actually was our drawer front sample. We use it for a phone and small radio.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


clipped on: 02.28.2008 at 10:10 am    last updated on: 02.28.2008 at 10:10 am

RE: Please Educate Me On Cooktop Hoods (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: weissman on 02.27.2008 at 07:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

Is there already ductwork to the outside in the hood? If not, you'll need to have someone put in ductwork? If so, what size is the ductwork - 6", 8", or 10". You'll need to get a hood liner that correctly matches the existing duct.


or will we change the ductowrk and/or move it?
clipped on: 02.27.2008 at 10:13 pm    last updated on: 02.27.2008 at 10:13 pm

RE: White Marble Countertops (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: osswb on 02.26.2008 at 01:38 pm in Kitchens Forum

Just joining in to ditto the love of marble. I have honed white marble in my bake center - which is also between the fridge and MW so it sees LOTS of use other than just baking projects. In the pic below, see that raised counter above the MW? That counter is a magnet for everyone, and everything gets placed/spilled on it especially from the MW (by my 18 yo son who is NOT careful AT ALL). And I ditto oofasis in that THERE ARE NO STAINS ON MY MARBLE either. :)

I used StoneTech's BulletProof Sealer - applying about 5 or so times over two days. The secret is to apply the sealer until the marble no longer "wets" or soaks in any more sealer as evidenced by grey or darkened areas on the marble.



like the MW height--and note little cab behind.
clipped on: 02.26.2008 at 10:49 pm    last updated on: 02.26.2008 at 10:50 pm

RE: Fireplace in your kitchen? (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: trailrunner on 02.12.2008 at 12:46 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi Holly, I sit about 1- 2 ft away and that is fine . The higher the setting the more heat the farther away you sit. We have a local chimney sweep who also sells and installs the FP's. I had the plumber run the gas line which was no biggie as we already had gas for heat and waterheater. He also put in the stainless steel liner in a new chase that my contractor built as that particular old chimney was no good. So you need to have a plumber for sure for the gas stuff and a licensed person to install the FP. I have switched fp guys this year as I found someone much much better about 45 min. away. He is very reasonable and has a great attitude . You might want to see what the installer/local fp places have in stock and then you would not have to order the fp yourself. A raised hearth sounds lovely and you could have cushions and sit there on a cold morning and have your coffee too ! Caroline


answers to my questions re raised hearth, who should install, etc.
clipped on: 02.12.2008 at 01:56 pm    last updated on: 02.12.2008 at 01:57 pm

RE: Walk-in pantry has door activated light (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: saskatchewan_girl on 01.15.2008 at 07:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

We just installed this into our walkin pantry. I'm so looking forward to it : ) Mine has a switch to turn it off/on/motion 150 deg so it will activate when the door opens. It is in the switch but isn't attached to the door jam, just activates by motion. It was approx $30 at HD and $38 for the 180 deg motion activated one.
I think you will like it : )


clipped on: 02.05.2008 at 11:29 am    last updated on: 02.05.2008 at 11:29 am

RE: Whirlpool Duet on 2nd floor - pedestals? (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: gneegirl on 10.12.2007 at 11:10 pm in Laundry Room Forum

Hi acomom,

If you'll see my post - "new toy", my 800 was delivered today. I'm usually on the kitchen forum and read about people smiling and touching and gazing at their granite. I had to laugh at myself because I've been walking around the house looking for laundry (although most of it is done), just to use my new machine. I can't get the smile off of my face!! I absolutely love the Bosch. The delviery guys told me that these things are the best in the business. He listens to the customers all the time and bases his opions on what they say. When he left he told ne not to worry; the Bosch is tops. I did notice a slight vibraton on the spin cycle but I don't think it's a problem (at least I hope not). But other than that, I love it. I'm on load 3 now!!

I'm sure you will love yours.


clipped on: 10.13.2007 at 12:30 am    last updated on: 10.13.2007 at 12:30 am

RE: A word to the wise - when you are all done... (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: ovenbird on 10.11.2007 at 08:59 am in Kitchens Forum

Check with the title companies in your area to see if they will handle the paperwork for you. We did not get a loan for our major reno and had Chicago Title handle the lien waivers and payments for us. It cost us about $350 for 3 payments and $50 for each extra payment. But it was well worth it to have someone else keep track and give us peace of mind.

I think the process went as follows.

When the GC wanted to get paid, he filled out a partial or final lien waiver itemizing payment amounts due to himself and his subs. We approved that the itemized work on the waiver had been done and then authorized payment. The GC got paid only for his work; he did not pay the subs. Rather, the subs had to go to the title company office and give them a lien waiver for the work identified in the GC's waiver, in order to get paid.

The subs always think it's a bother but were used to it since they have to go through this process whenever a loan is involved.


clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 12:58 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 12:58 pm

RE: A word to the wise - when you are all done... (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: bevangel on 10.11.2007 at 03:41 am in Kitchens Forum

loves2cook4six is absolutely right. A lot of people don't understand M&M Liens (a.k.a. "Mechanics and Materialmans Liens") and Lien waivers. The details of the laws regarding M&M liens vary from state to state but they have certain elements in common.

An M&M Lien is a document that any person who supplies goods or services for the improvement of real property may file with the court IF they have not been paid for those goods or services. The exact language you'll see on liens from different states vary but what all the legal mumbo-jumbo means is: "I (the lienholder) swear that I provided the following goods or services with a value of $x on such-and-such-a-date for the improvement of real property located at such-and-such-an-address and have not been paid." The M&M Lien protects the tradesman (lienholder) because it ensures that he will eventually get paid.

The reason why is because the lien is a "cloud" on the title of the real property. If the property owner tries to sell the property (or maybe get a loan based on it), the lien will be discovered when a title search is done. (Title insurance basically is a Title Company's way of telling a buyer or lender, "We have done a thorough search for any liens against this property and have not discovered any so if, at some time in the future, some pre-existing lien suddenly comes to light that we should have found but did not, we will pay it off for you so as to clear your title.") No one with any sense will purchase or make a loan on property with a clouded title so any lienholders will get paid when the property is sold or the homeowner tries to get a mortgage loan.

A property owner who has a lien filed against the property WHILE he owns it will have to clear the title before he can sell or get a loan. And he will have to do it without the help of a Title company because the title insurance he purchased when he first bought the property does not apply to liens that arise after that date.

In order to clear the clouded title the homeowner must do one of three things:

1) Produce the signed lien waiver he got back when he first paid for the goods or services (and has kept carefully filed away ever since.)
2) Pay the lienholder AGAIN - plus accumulated interest - in order to induce the lienholder to sign a lien waiver.
3) Go to court and PROVE that he already paid the lienholder or that the lien holder never did the work claimed (i.e., the lienholder filed a false lien.)

Most homeowners stuck with choosing between #2 and #3 probably just pay the lienholder again because that is cheaper than going to court...especially for "small jobs."

So, the Lien Waiver protects the homeowner from unscrupulous tradespeople who try to get paid twice.

gizmonike gave exactly the right advice. If a tradesperson, or a supplier refuses to sign a lien waiver, then don't pay them. There is no reason whatsoever for a tradesman to refuse to sign a lien waiver when he is paid ... except ignorance regarding lien law OR a desire to "stick it to the homeowner" later by filing a false lien! For an honest trademan, the lien waiver is nothing more than a receipt.

M&M Laws in the different state vary as to details so you should find out what they are in your state. Some variations are:
1) The time limit (after supplying the goods or services) for filing the M&M lien;
2) whether or not the property owner must be given Notice prior to the filing of the lien;
3) How long the lien remains in effect and, if not "in perpetuity", whether or not the lien can be renewed and the process for doing so; and
4) Who bears the burden of proof if a lien dispute goes to court. (In a civil dispute, the "burden of proof" is kind of like a presumption of guilt/innocence in a criminal case. Whichever party has the burden of proof is (sort of) presumed guilty, while the other party is (sort of) presumed innocent. It's harder to win if you have the "burden of proof.")

I hope the above general information is helpful but, for specific legal advice regarding liens in your state or haw they apply to the facts of your situation, talk to a lawyer licensed in your state.


clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 12:57 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 12:57 pm

RE: A word to the wise - when you are all done... (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: gizmonike on 10.11.2007 at 02:25 am in Kitchens Forum

No lien waiver, no payment -- that's the incentive. A lien waiver is simply language on a piece of paper that says the payee received full payment for such & such work. We required our GC to provide lien waivers signed by the subs for every sub invoice before we paid the GC.


clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 12:55 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 12:55 pm

A word to the wise - when you are all done...

posted by: loves2cook4six on 10.10.2007 at 12:45 pm in Kitchens Forum

get lien waivers, AND HAVE THEM AUTHENTICATED BY A LAWYER, from EVERY SINGLE person who worked in your house before you make your final payment.

And I say every single person, because a subcontractor may be busy and bring in someone else to do the work or may not pay one of his workers for work they did in your house and the lien would be against you.

This just saved my brother 1000's as someone tried to put a lien on his house not remembering they had signed the waiver 7 months ago.


clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 12:53 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 12:54 pm

RE: Opinion please...Advantium 120 enough as 2nd oven? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: needanap on 10.03.2007 at 11:54 pm in Appliances Forum

I have the Monogram Advantium 120 over the Monogram oven ZET1SLSS (I think that is the model #). Really love the main oven. Wonderful glide racks and control knobs. Cooks very evenly. Very quiet. Here they are, stacked over a warming drawer. In the first picture, it was just installed, I hadn't even taken the plastic off the handle yet. I find that the Advantium is actually a little too high in that location. The door opens down, and I am short (5'0"), so I can't reach in very far. The door is practically in my armpits when I try to get food in and out. It is a problem trying to get the various trays in and out when the oven is hot. And I have to use a step stool to clean the back. Another important point is to plan a spot to keep the accessories nearby. I find myself changing from glass tray to metal tray quite often, and I would hate to have to go across the kitchen looking for the right tray every time I wanted to zap something quickly. I keep my trays in the cabinet above, as shown. The trays are large diameter and only fit on an angle. If I had to do it again, I would lower the ovens by a foot or so, and put the warming drawer somewhere else. A good idea would be to keep the trays in a drawer under or right next to the advantium.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


clipped on: 10.04.2007 at 11:52 am    last updated on: 10.04.2007 at 11:52 am

RE: Opinion please...Advantium 120 enough as 2nd oven? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: needanap on 10.03.2007 at 01:57 pm in Appliances Forum

I have the advantium 120 as my second oven and it works well for that. Some thoughts, though. When I have something cooking in there, and then need to nuke something else quickly while getting dinner ready, I have to wait until the main dish is done. I never realized how much I use the micro until it was otherwise occupied! Another thought is that I don't find the keep warm function all that useful. First of all, the fan noise is loud when it is on (like a microwave) so wouldn't want that running for a long time while waiting to serve dinner. Also, I usually need the warming drawer for one dish while waiting for something else to come out of the oven. If the advantium IS your oven, you can't use it for your warming drawer, too. I do like mine, though, and so far I'm happy with the choice.


warming function noise
clipped on: 10.04.2007 at 11:48 am    last updated on: 10.04.2007 at 11:49 am

RE: Hood Angst (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: dseng on 10.04.2007 at 11:30 am in Appliances Forum

We were very happy with a Kobe hood in our last kitchen remodel and plan to use them for the one that we're planning. Quiet, reliable and uses a telescoping chimney system. I just helped a friend install a VAH about 4 weeks ago and understand exactly what your issue is.


clipped on: 10.04.2007 at 11:45 am    last updated on: 10.04.2007 at 11:45 am

RE: can granite be honed in place? bad idea? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: stonegirl on 10.02.2007 at 05:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi hollylh - the mechanical procedure I am referring to will be muddy - if anything. A good stone resto guy will mask and protect the surrounding area and thoroughly clean up after himself. He will use a grinder and diamond and resin pads to grind your stone to your preferred level of hone. After this, he will clean up the stone and seal and/or enhance it - however you asked him to finish it. He should also be able to give you examples of different finishes and discuss with you how he will proceed to reach them. Unfortunately I have no way of telling how much such services in your area will be worth. Be prepared to interview a restoration guy just as you would any other contractor. Ask for references and check up on them. Look at examples of his work and talk to prior clients before you decide on who to use.

I am sure you will find a great guy to do what you need done :)

Hi oofasis - It depends :) It depends on the porosity of your stone and on the quality of the sealer. It would also depend on what you clean it with and how often you clean the tops.

If he has sealed the tops when they were installed, test for absorption. Drip water on the stone, leave it sit a while and wipe it off. If the drops left dark marks, seal them again. Test after 24 hours and repeat if neccessary until the water beads up and won't absorb any more.

As far as resealing is concerned: it will need to be done once you start noticing the stone starting to absorb liquids again. It is impossible to put a time frame on that. There are just too many variables involved. Most modern sealers have a lifespan of about 5 years, so sealing is really not the chore it once was.

Congratulations on your soon to be new tops!


clipped on: 10.03.2007 at 11:34 am    last updated on: 10.03.2007 at 11:34 am

RE: can granite be honed in place? bad idea? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: jackie1775 on 10.02.2007 at 06:20 am in Kitchens Forum

Hollylh- I've had both polished and honed Ubatuba, and I find the honed finish easier to care for. It doesn't show every little fingerprint and smudge the way the polished finish does. I sometimes use a little green windex on it, but usually just wipe it down with a sponge. It was sealed with Miracle 511 Impregnator over a year ago, and doesn't seem to need resealing yet. I really liked my polished Ubatuba in my old house, but I LOVE my honed.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


picture! yay
clipped on: 10.02.2007 at 08:25 am    last updated on: 10.02.2007 at 08:26 am

RE: anyone have white cabs & wood counters? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: mnhockeymom on 09.30.2007 at 10:40 pm in Kitchens Forum

I've got walnut counters from Brooks Wood (see two posts above) - don't have pics yet but can tell you they're wonderful! BW does custom AND production tops so there's different price levels to choose from - can't say enough about their customer service and support! Spevka and Boos are good options too - have even seen some posts from Lumber Liquidators but have NO experience with that so can't say either way.


wood options
clipped on: 10.01.2007 at 12:07 pm    last updated on: 10.01.2007 at 12:08 pm

RE: Under Cabinet Lighting (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: kailuamom on 09.29.2007 at 10:27 pm in Kitchens Forum

We went with pegasus flourescents - I wanted cool light that I could keep on as much as I wanted without worry about heat or energy. They're great and fit the bill! (I spent about $150 for the whole kitchen.)


pegasus also makes xenon, these also throw off heat apparently
clipped on: 10.01.2007 at 11:52 am    last updated on: 10.01.2007 at 11:52 am

RE: Under Cabinet Lighting (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: imrainey on 09.29.2007 at 02:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

We had Kichler in the pantry that was done months and months before the kitchen proper. Because I've been very happy with it I'm having it put in the rest of the kitchen as well.

The thing I like about it is once the tracks are in place you can decide where you want the light units and have as many or as few as you like or concentrate some more in selected areas than at other parts of a track. You're also not stuck with one decision. If your needs change, you can pop the light units out and move them around.

In the link below you can see the effect it provides and a variety of uses. And if you look on the right margin you can see what they look like under the cabinets.

Originally I bought a kit with a transformer built into the plug. I had to have an outlet added to the inside of a cabinet so that the plug and cord were unobtrusive. Later I found out I could have gotten a transformer installed anywhere in the attic basement to operate multiple sets of lights/tracks that operate from a single switch. That's what we'll be using for the kitchen proper.

I got them at The Great Indoors where they also had round puck-style lights and other options as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: linear lighting


these are florescent
a lot of posters had these
many didn't like halogen either for heat
clipped on: 10.01.2007 at 11:51 am    last updated on: 10.01.2007 at 11:51 am

RE: Under Cabinet Lighting (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: amsunshine on 09.29.2007 at 04:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

I chose WAC undercabinet fluorescent light bars. I really like them. I'm in California, so fluorescent was pretty much the only option. Also, I wanted cool operating lighting -- so halogen and xenon were out as I had heard too many comments on those lights generating heat. The only drawback I see with fluorescent is they are not dimmable. However, I personally never really need a dimmer. I have three levels of lighting and adjust it by turning on/off the different levels according to my needs. If dimmability is important to you, fluorescent may not be the best option.


clipped on: 10.01.2007 at 11:50 am    last updated on: 10.01.2007 at 11:50 am

RE: Care to share your best kitchen storage ideas? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: dianalo on 07.28.2007 at 10:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

I copied the following from the IKEA fans website a few months back. I love the ingenuity...
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

So now you can tell your contractor it does not take a lot of space to make a broom closet, lol.


clipped on: 10.01.2007 at 10:50 am    last updated on: 10.01.2007 at 10:50 am

RE: Store brooms behind 3' hinged frame on the side of fridge? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: thinktoomuch on 10.01.2007 at 10:40 am in Kitchens Forum

My kitchen is not installed yet, but we did tell the cabinet maker to go ahead and make the 3" hinged. Why not, otherwise it would just be static. I am not sure what I will use the space for yet, but some thoughts other than brooms - the table pads for my DR table or even an extra leaf if I prop it up in case of a water leak from the fridge. I'll let you know it should be installed in about a month.


great idea for table leaf storage
clipped on: 10.01.2007 at 10:47 am    last updated on: 10.01.2007 at 10:47 am

RE: Suggestions On Thickness of Butcherblock Island? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: gibby3000 on 09.05.2007 at 09:49 pm in Kitchens Forum

I think mine is 2 inches.

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looks too thick?
clipped on: 09.29.2007 at 09:58 pm    last updated on: 09.29.2007 at 09:59 pm

RE: Butcher block counters? Pros/cons? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: ellene613 on 08.20.2007 at 02:07 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have a butcher block island/peninsula-- 36" x 73.5". I cut on it daily, it's the center of of my kitchen and the main prep area. Butcher block is a soft, visually warm, forgiving surface. Glasses don't break if set down hard. It's a quiet surface; pots and pans don't clang on it. It feels comfortably warm and pleasant to the touch. Upkeep is minimal; I've been applying mineral oil about once a month.

Negatives: A sink set into butcherblock requires vigilance to avoid water damage. Will show stains (they fade in after awhile). Ends can split if they dry out, as can occur next to a range.


clipped on: 09.29.2007 at 09:12 pm    last updated on: 09.29.2007 at 09:12 pm

RE: Help...Should I cancell Kenmore washer and dryer order? (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: iasheff on 09.18.2007 at 10:21 am in Laundry Room Forum

We found that the savings in utility costs alone were enough to make the FL our choice. Our water and sewer costs are outrageous. Going from 45 gals a load to 15 gals a load and doing 1/2 as much laundry (due to the larger load size) was a BIG selling point. I do a LOT of laundry. Way way way more than the average family-- we have a large family plus I do home day care.

We have had our FL for over 5 years and have had only one problem... we had to replace the drain pump but that was through no fault of the washer-- a pocketful of BBs were washed (dang kids!!). My husband usually does all our appliance repairs himself and he claims the front loader is the easiest appliance he has had to work on!

The cleaning ablility of the FL is awesome. The clothes stay looking new much longer. I can especially tell when we go to school functions and kids are all wearing school t-shirts that were purchased at the same time (like for football season, etc) and my kids shirts look like new compared to a lot of the other kids shirts and I know my kids wear and wash their shirts just as often.

Our family rides ATVs and I have even had other people ask me how I keep the kids riding clothes looking like new week after week when going through the mud and yuck that they do on a regular basis.

The savings in detergent is remarkable too. I now use Sears detergent-- a huge bucket was $20 and will last forever. It states for 275 loads but since I don't use nearly as much as stated on the package, it will last more than that. Sure a whole lot cheaper than buying $10 bottles at Walmart that lasted a week or two!

We have had a little bit of vibration problem. We have a huge old house and the laundry is on the main floor. All the floors are hardwood. We had to put a piece of 3/4" plywood cut to fit exactly under the washer and dryer and that seemed to alleviate most, if not all, the vibrations. It depends on what is being washed-- sometimes a "heavy" load will shake a bit.

I know that I, for one, would never be able to go back to doing laundry in a TL on a regular basis!!


note plywood cut to fit under w/d...old house...eliminates vibration
clipped on: 09.22.2007 at 01:09 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2007 at 01:09 pm

RE: Help...Should I cancell Kenmore washer and dryer order? (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: mcubed on 09.17.2007 at 07:36 pm in Laundry Room Forum

hailefinn - I just recently purchased my first FL and I will outline the pros/cons as I see them for you. I wasn't planning on replacing my stacked Maytag set, but am so glad I did! I love, love my new set of Whirlpool Duets. After a lot of reserach and figuring out which ones I wanted, I purchased them online from AJ Madison (free shipping, no tax, great price + rebate and extremely reasonable extended warranty cost for 5 years):

Cons :
1) Kinda had to relearn new laundry techniques + try new detergents until I found ones that I was happy with
2) Having to leave open the washer door and wipe out gasket each time I am finished to dry it out to keep from getting mildew/musty smells.
3) I already had to use the warranty for the dryer door because it was hard to shut and was popping open during the cycle + there was a vibrating noise. BUT, I called AJ Madison and they sent someone out to fix it, no problem. Seems the doors easily get put off-kilter in the shipping process. Works like a charm now.

Pros :
1) I do WAY less laundry now. It's great! The washer holds so much more! I have about 1/2 the loads I used to.
2) My clothes are much cleaner. My DD's white socks that were pretty grey on the bottom from running around w/out shoes look awesome and presentable now.
3) I only have tiny little bottles/boxes of various detergents to store instead of that GIANT jug from the warehouse store to lug.
4) I haven't gotten my water bill, but I am looking forward to a marked drop in that bill, as well.
5) This washer/dryer is a lot quieter.

I hope this helps and good luck with your purchase!


clipped on: 09.22.2007 at 01:03 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2007 at 01:04 pm

RE: Cabinets to the ceiling..Did I make a mistake?? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: vjrnts on 09.14.2007 at 08:14 am in Kitchens Forum

Same here; I have a small kitchen in an old house, and I went to the ceiling with dramatic moldings.

I doubt that you really want "trendy" in any case; "trendy" will look dated in five years. I'm hoping that my kitchen will fit the period of my house for a good long time. You can say that soapstone and subway tiles are trendy right now, but they were trendy in the 20s, too!


clipped on: 09.15.2007 at 11:02 pm    last updated on: 09.15.2007 at 11:02 pm

RE: Cabinets to the ceiling..Did I make a mistake?? (Follow-Up #33)

posted by: vjrnts on 09.14.2007 at 08:21 pm in Kitchens Forum

hollylh, here's another view. It really looks great. My kitchen is an odd shape, kind of a lopsided U, and the molding goes all the way around.


clipped on: 09.15.2007 at 11:01 pm    last updated on: 09.15.2007 at 11:01 pm

information for cheap solid wood doors for ikea cabinets

posted by: reyesuela on 09.04.2007 at 08:14 pm in Kitchens Forum

I posted a while ago about my remodel in which I planned to use custom wood doors on IKEA cabinets for a more traditional, custom look. I've been overwhelmed with the move and so haven't been with it enough to post results or info, BUT now I can! I don't have pics in a good form still, though--I may at some point, but not yet.

Anyhow, the results were fabulous and cheaper than any but the cheapest IKEA doors! I took in actual IKEA doors because they're really in metric, not English, units and had them measured on-site. AT MY REQUEST, THE COMPANY IS SAVING THE IKEA MEASUREMENTS FOR FUTURE REMODELERS! So this means that you won't have to buy more than, at most, a few IKEA doors or drawers because they already know what 6, 12, 15, 25, 30, etc., "inches" on IKEA cabinets really is!

The company is called Evans Cabinet and Doors. This is their website: Their work is top-quality and SUPER FAST--as in, my stuff was ready a week after I ordered it. The price simply can't be beat, and they ship all over the country for very reasonable rates.

On the stained cabinetry, they do NOT do bookmatching or other super high-end work (you'd have to go completely custom and be paying more than $500 a linear foot for cabinetmakers who do that), but the stuff is still really, really nice--it can meet or beat any of the major cabinet brands.

I had a ridiculous number of doors--nearly 100--and they didn't make a single mistake.

They can also drill holes that fit the IKEA door hardware, taking a lot of the frustration out of it.

Please spread this to anyone who is interested! I love to see people who do such great work for such a bargain rewarded!

These are their door designs:

Evans doesn't do the glass inserts themselves on regular door orders, but they make the doors for the inserts.


clipped on: 09.15.2007 at 10:57 pm    last updated on: 09.15.2007 at 10:58 pm

RE: Plugmolds--have you had problems with them? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: needanap on 09.05.2007 at 09:30 pm in Kitchens Forum

Love my plugmold! Mine are mounted at a 45 degree angle in the back corner between upper cabinets and top of backsplash. That makes them very easy to use. I think you can find angled plugmold which is more $$ than regular flat plugmold, but my builder just mounted the flat stuff on an angled block of wood in the corner. Works great - wouldn't want it any other way! Here is a pic. Hope this helps. It is completely hidden from view by the light rail, unless you bend down to see it.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


clipped on: 09.15.2007 at 10:54 pm    last updated on: 09.15.2007 at 10:54 pm