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RE: Mongo? Anyone? Tub deck framing & subfloor questions... (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: mongoct on 11.18.2009 at 10:46 pm in Bathrooms Forum

I'd build something like this:

That drawing just depicts the top frame made of 2x4s on edge. 3-1/2" thick.

Add legs under it to get the height you need.

On top of this you'll have 3/4" advantech, then 1/2" cement board, then what, say 1/8" of thinset and 3/8" tile? that's 1-3/4" of topping over the 3-1/2" of 2x4, for a total thickness of 5-1/4".

So if you wanted the top of your tile to be 20" above the bathroom subfloor, your legs would be 14-3/4" tall.

Note that I doubled up the sides.

You could cover it as drawn with advantech pieces instead of cutting the top from one full sheet.

Don't have cement board seams fall over advantech seams.

Now if you were to build it with a single 2x4 on each side instead of the doubled up 2x4s on each side, then I'd say cut the top out of a single sheet of advantech.

Does that make sense?

NOTES:

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clipped on: 11.21.2009 at 11:47 pm    last updated on: 11.21.2009 at 11:50 pm

RE: Mongo? Anyone? Tub deck framing & subfloor questions... (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: mongoct on 11.18.2009 at 05:36 pm in Bathrooms Forum

I forgot about that thread.

As to the 2x4s on the flat or on edge, you'll have a more rigid top by putting them on edge. Not sure why I drew it the other way!

Yes, you can build the deck on a 3/4" subfloor.

I always have built room walls over the subfloor and then installed underlayment where needed, between the walls. You can put underlayment in the shower area and build the pan and curb on top of the underlayment.

Install a "slip sheet" of tar paper or plastic on top of the subfloor so the deck mud can move independent of the plywood.

Don't install tar paper as the slip sheet over radiant floor heat. Use plastic instead.

NOTES:

I'd build something like this:

That drawing just depicts the top frame made of 2x4s on edge. 3-1/2" thick.

Add legs under it to get the height you need.

On top of this you'll have 3/4" advantech, then 1/2" cement board, then what, say 1/8" of thinset and 3/8" tile? that's 1-3/4" of topping over the 3-1/2" of 2x4, for a total thickness of 5-1/4".

So if you wanted the top of your tile to be 20" above the bathroom subfloor, your legs would be 14-3/4" tall.

Note that I doubled up the sides.

You could cover it as drawn with advantech pieces instead of cutting the top from one full sheet.

Don't have cement board seams fall over advantech seams.

Now if you were to build it with a single 2x4 on each side instead of the doubled up 2x4s on each side, then I'd say cut the top out of a single sheet of advantech.

Does that make sense?

o
RE: Mongo? Anyone? Tub deck framing & subfloor questions...

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* Posted by staceyneil (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 19, 09 at 8:02

wow, that's great, Mongo, thank you!!!

It does make sense:)

One clarification: the legs on the back and sides (i.e. against the existing walls)... do they need a "sole plate" under them or can they just be like legs sitting on the subfloor?

I assume that the FRONT legs need a sole plate, so that there's something to fasten the bottom edge of the cement board to???

This is very timely, I think this is getting framed tonight or tomorrow, and I can print it out and show my handyman who's helping with framing.

Thank you SOOOOO much!

Stacey

o
RE: Mongo? Anyone? Tub deck framing & subfloor questions...

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* Posted by mongoct (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 19, 09 at 9:35

Correct, you don't need a sole plate on the back or side walls. The front apron framing would need a sole plate for cement board support, and the front apron legs would have to be positioned to fall behind any seams in the cement board.

clipped on: 11.21.2009 at 11:44 pm    last updated on: 11.21.2009 at 11:49 pm

Mongo? Anyone? Tub deck framing & subfloor questions...

posted by: staceyneil on 11.17.2009 at 09:03 am in Bathrooms Forum

I had bookmarked Mongo's excellent post on tub deck framing (http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bath/msg0122342313537.html) but I have a question.

The drawing has the top plate as a 2x4 laid flat, like you'd frame a standard wall. But the photos show the top frame built like a floor, with the 2x4s gong the tall way.

In my application, which do you think is best to build? The space is surrounded by three walls and is only 6'4" wide. I'm framing in a 36" deep x 6'4" wide deck for a 60" x 32" tub. The long sides can just be the "walls" created by 2x4s (3.5" deep) and I think that'll provide enough overlap under the tub lip/flange. It's the 8" on each end that are trickier.

Can I frame this all like Mongo's drawing, with the flat side of the 2x4 up?

I'm intending to add 3/4" Advantech plywood and 1/2" cement board over the tub deck top.

*******

****** One last question: The subfloor is 3/4" Advantech in the whole room. Is that sufficient to build the deck on?

I'd read that I should add an additional 3/8" plywood, fastened into the 3/4 subfloor but NOT the joists, in the areas where we will be installing floor tile (with also 1/4" cement board and radiant floor wire before the ceramic tile.) Yes? What about in the shower area? Can the pan be built on the 3/4" alone or does it need the extra 3/8" there? If it needs the 3/8", should that be installed BEFORE the shower walls and curb are framed, or after and fit into the space? I understand that the idea is to allow a slight movement zone between the wood and so I wondered if framing walls on top of it defeats that purpose?

Am I totally overthinking this????? :)

NOTES:

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clipped on: 11.21.2009 at 11:46 pm    last updated on: 11.21.2009 at 11:48 pm

RE: Show me appliance garages or other electric toothbrush hiders (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: pepperidge_farm on 04.20.2009 at 08:32 pm in Bathrooms Forum

Yes- the cabinet is recessed. The stud that framed the cabinet in the wall on the side was cut out for the electrical box to fit into- so instead of the outlet facing into the room, it faced into the cabinet. I don't have interim pics of that. I hope that makes sense. The wall was put there by us in the reno, it has electrical because the vanity lights are there too, as well as outlets on the backsplash.

We had the AC vent going down the wall where one of the cabinet's was meant to go... DH said, "oh well, can't recess it," I said, "that's OK, we can just bump out behind the bathroom wall in the bedroom and run the vent there :-))) We also had to carefully plan the drain vent stack in that wall.

Some of the plans I made that created extra work he had to make happen, some I did, so it all worked out.

NOTES:

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clipped on: 09.27.2009 at 11:29 pm    last updated on: 09.27.2009 at 11:29 pm

RE: Show me appliance garages or other electric toothbrush hiders (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: pepperidge_farm on 04.19.2009 at 07:38 pm in Bathrooms Forum

I put ours inside the medicine cabinet. With this latest reno, I put an outlet inside each cabinet so it could charge there as well. I am so thrilled with this set-up! DH has the same in his side.

Outlet in cabinet

NOTES:

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clipped on: 09.27.2009 at 11:28 pm    last updated on: 09.27.2009 at 11:29 pm

bathroom tile FAQ's

posted by: bill_vincent on 07.01.2008 at 09:31 pm in Bathrooms Forum

This is going to take me a while, so I'll post as many as I can each night until it gets done. To start, here's the first set of questions and answers:

Okay, here we go. These questions come from the thread on the discussions side where I solicited questions from everyone for this thread. These are in the order they were asked:

Q) What are the different types of tiles you can use in a bathroom and what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?

A) There are several types of tile available. They fall into two general groups: ceramic and natural stone. I'll take these one at a time:

Ceramic tile-- For purposes of this discussion, there's glazed conventional, unglazed porcelain, and glazed porcelain. All three are good tiles for bathroom use, but the porcelain is a better choice only because of its density and lack of water absorbsion, which makes upkeep and cleaning easier. Also, with reference to steam showers, you DO NOT want to use natural stone, being that the steam would tend to permeate into the stone even more readily than liquid water, and could end up giving you algae problems, as well as mold and mildew problems, unless you don't mind being tied down to your bathroom.

Natural Stone-- There are several types of stone that are used in bathrooms. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're all GOOD IDEAS for bathrooms, expecially the softer (and more absorbant) stones, such as slate or limestone. Now, I know I'm going to get a world of flack about this from epople who have bathrooms finished in these materials. I know they CAN be used.... so long as you're aware of the extra upkeep involved. But if you're someone who doesn't like to keep after things, you may want to pick an easier material to maintain. Generally speaking, the softer the stone, the more the upkeep. Limestone being the softer of the stones, and that would include travertine, next would be many slates (although some would actually be harder than even most marbles, such as brazilian and british slates), then marbles, with quartzite and granite rounding off the list as the harder and more dense stones that you could use.

Q) What should I be sure to look for when choosing tile for a bathroom?

A) Short answer-- something that you like! The bathroom is the one place that just about anything the showroom has can be used. The only limitations are basically the upkeep you want to put in, and slip resistance on the floors of your bathroom and shower. Now, although ceramic tile is basically maintenence free, you don't want to use something with a texture to it that will catch all kinds of junk in the shower, making it more difficult to keep clean. At the same time, you don't want to use a polished stone or bright glazed ceramic tile for the shower floor, either. These both CAN be used, but again, it comes down to upkeep for textured wall tile, and doing something to rectify the slippery floor.

Q) Where should I use tile and where not?

A) Tile can be used on every single surface in the bathroom, if that's what you like. This is all a matter of taste... for the most part. About the only place where there's a requirement is any place there's a showerhead involved. If tile is to be used either in a shower or a tub/ shower combo, The tile MUST go up to a minimum of 72" off the floor. Past that, it's up to the disgression of the owner.

Q) What size tile and what layout patterns to use in various areas?

A) Again, this is a subjective question that can really only be answered by the owner. The ONLY place where there's a recommendation for mechaincal reasons is on a shower floor. TCNA recommends that mothing bigger than 6" be used on shower floors due to the cone shape of the floor's pitch. In addition, most installers will request no bigger than 4", and prefer a 2x2 tile to work with on the shower floor. This is also advantageous to the homeowner who'll be showering in there, because the added grout joints will add more traction to the floor.

Now, I've heard many times that you shouldn't use large format tiles in a small area like a powder room floor, and if you have a wide open bathroom, you don't want to use real small tiles. My response to both is the same-- HORSEHOCKEY. I've done bathrooms both ways-- 24x24 diagonal in a 3' wide powder room, and 1" hex ceramic mosaics in an open 100 sq. ft. bathroom floor. The rule of thumb is if you like it, it's right!

Q) How do I find/choose someone to install the tile?

A) Many people will tell you to get names from the showroom you get your tile from. This is no good, unless the showroom is willing to take responsibility for the installer by either having them on payrool, or as a subcontract. Then they have something to lose if they give you a bad installer. Many people will also tell you to get references and to actually check them out. This ALSO doesn't work. I've been in this work for just under 30 years now, and I've yet to find a single installer who ever gave the name of someone they had a problem with. They say even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in a while. The same can be said for "fly-by-nights" and good work.

So if you can't trust recommendations, and checking references is a lost cause, what do you do? REVERSE THE PROCESS!! Instead of finding an installer and getting references, get references, and thru them, find your installer!! No matter where you live, if you drive around, you'll find constructions sites and developements. Stop and ask who the GC uses. Get a name and phone number. Sooner or later, after asking around enough, you're going to find that the same names will begin to show up time and time again. THESE are the guys you want to use. But don't expect a bargain price, and be prepared to wait, because these guys will be in high demand, even in the worst of times, and they may demand a bit higher price, but they'll be worth every penny, if for no other reason, just because of the peace of mind they'll give you in knowing you're getting a good quality installation. Ask anyone who's gone through this experience, good or bad-- that alone is worth its weight in gold.

Q) What are the proper underlayments for tile?

A) There are several, and I'll take them one at a time:

CBU (cementitious Backer Units)-- This is the term that generally covers all cement boards (such as Wonderboard or Durock) or cement fiber boards (such as Hardibacker). This is the most common used tile underlayment. Generally speaking, it comes in two thicknesses-- 1/2" and 1/4"-- and each has its use. !/2" must be used for wall installations, due to the fact that the 1/4" is way too flimsy with nothing to back it up, and would flex too much to last. Besides, the 1/2" CBU will usually match up nicely to most sheetrocks. The 1/4" is used for floor installations, unless the added height of the 1/2" is needed to match up to other floorings. Being that neither has very much structural strength, so long as the subfloor is 3/4" or more, the 1/4" CBU is all that's needed. Keep in mind that even though it's basically fiberglass reinforced concrete, the only thing it adds to the floor is a stable bonding surface, so the 1/4" will do just fine. One place where alot of contractors will try and shortcut is by using greenboard instead of CBU for shower walls. This is expressly forbidden in the IRC (International Residential Code) by the following code:

IRC Greenboard Code:
The 2006 International Residential Code (IRC) states in
Section R702.4.2 that "Cement, fiber-cement or glass mat
gypsum backers in compliance with ASTM C1288, C1325
or C1178 and installed in accordance with manufacturers
recommendations shall be used as backers for wall tile in
tub and shower areas and wall panels in shower areas."

The 2006 IRC also states in Section R702.3.8.1 that
"Water-resistant gypsum backing board [Greenboard] shall
not be used where there will be direct exposure to water."

Membranes-- There are several around that work well over many different surfaces. Most of them are what's called "Crack Isolation Membranes". Just about every manufacturer has one, from trowel ons or roll ons, such as Hydroment's Ultraset or Laticrete's 9235 or Hydroban, to sheet membranes such as Noble's CIS membrane. All will give the tile a little more protection against movement than just going over CBU. However, there's another class of membranes called "uncoupling membranes" of which the most popular by far is Schluter's Ditra, that are made from bonding two layers together, usually a fabric fleece backing and a plastic sheeting with dovetailed waffling to "lock" the thinset in place ( as opposed to accepting a thinset BOND). These membranes will, as their name implies, uncouple their two layers in case of movement, to save the floor, and for thinset floors, it's the most protection you can give your tile floor.

Plywood-- This is one where I get the most flack. I'm one of a dying breed that still believes in tiling directly over plywood. However, I can very well understand the reluctance of the industry to embrace this installation method, even though the TCNA DOES approve of its use for interior installations (Those with a handbook can check Method F-149). The reason I say that is it's a very "tempermental installation method. You need to be very familiar with what you're doing, or you risk failure. There are even many pros I wouldn't trust to tile using this method. Everything you do is important, from the species of plywood used, to the direction the grain is laid with relation to the joists, to how it's gapped, and a host of other specs, as well-- many of which won't be found in the handbook, and if you miss just one of them, you're flirtin with disaster. All in all, when people ask me about it, I tell them that with the membranes available, there's no need to go directly over plywood. There are other methods that will give you just as long lasting a floor, and aren't NEARLY as sensitive.

Mudset-- This is the oldest, and still, after THOUSANDS of years of use, the strongest installation method available. In a mudset installation, a minimum of 1 1/4" of mortar called "drypack" (mixed to the consistancy of damp sand) is either bonded to a concrete slab, or laid down over tarpaper or 6 mil poly with wire reinforcement, packed, and then screaded off to flat level (or pitched) subfloor. This is what most people see when tiling a shower pan. Initially, the mud will be a somewhat soft subfloor. But over time, if mixed properly, it'll be stronger than concrete.

Q) What are the proper tile setting compounds?

A) This is one where I could write a book. It all depends on what kind fo tile you're installing, and what the underlayment is that you're going over. I'll give a generalized list:

Polymer/ latex modified thinset: For all intents and purposes, this is the "cure-all". For almost any installation the modified thinset, which is basically portland cement, silica sand, and chemical polymers added for strength, will work. There are some that are specialized, such as the lightweight non-sag thinsets (such as Laticrete's 255 or Mapei's Ultralite), or the high latex content thinsets (like Latictrete's 254 Platinum or Hydroment's Reflex), but with the exception of going over some membranes, there's a modified thinset for every installation.

Unmodified thinset: This is the same as above, but with no polymers added. It's usually used in conjunction with a liquid latex additive, but will also be used mixed with water for going over some membranes. It's also used as a bedding for all CBU's.

Medium Bed Mortars-- This is a relatively new class of setting mortars, used mainly for large format tiles, where the normal notched trowels just don't put down enough material, and with thinset, it would be too much, causing too much shrinkage as it dries, causing voids under, and poor bond to, the tile, but at the same time, there's not enoough room for a mudset installation. This mortar is usually used with either a 1/2x1/2" or 1/2x3/4" notched trowel.

Mastics and Premixed Thinsets: THESE HAVE VERY LIMITED USES!! Let me say that again-- THESE HAVE VERY LIMITED USES!! They work well for vertical installations, where the tile used is 8x8 or less, and it's not a wet area. ALL THREE of those conditions must be met!! I know just about every pail of type 1 mastic says it can be used in showers except for the floor. DON'T BELIEVE IT!! Also, both mastic and premixed thinset (which is just mastic with a fine sand mixed in to give it bulk) claim they can be used for floor installations. Unfortunately, for the amount of material needed under virtually all floor tiles to bond to the subfloor, neither of these will fully harden. I had a personal experience where I helped a sister in law across country, telling her husband exactly how to do his main floor, what to use, and how to use it. Unfortunately, he went to the big box store to get his tile and materials, and they talked him into using premixed thinset. I didn't hear about it until SIX MONTHS LATER when his tile and grout joints started showing cracks all over the floor. When he called me I asked him what he used for thinset, and sure enough, this is when he told me. I told him to pull one of the tiles, and SIX MONTHS LATER, IT WAS STILL SOFT!!! DOn't let them talk you into it!! Use the proper thinset, and don't try and shortcut your installation. You're spending alot of money for it to be "just practice"!!

Q) How do you deal with different thicknesses of tile?

A) Whatever it takes. I've used membranes, built up the amount of thinset being used, I've even doubled up tiles when it worked out that way. Whatever it takes to get the two tiles to be flush toeach other.

Q) What are the typical tools required to lay tile?

A) Generally speaking, this is a list for just about all installations. Some may require specialized tools, but this would be for all:

Proper sized notched trowel
measuring tape
chalk line
margin trowel
nippers
high amp low speed drill and mixing paddle (best would be 6 amp or better and less than 400 rpm)
several buckets
score and snap cutter for straight ceramic cuts
4 1/2" grinder with a continuous rim dry diamond blade for ceramic, anything other than straight cuts
wet saw (can be used for ALL cuts, ceramic or stone)
grout float
hydra grout sponges (2-- once for grouting, one for cleaning)
24" and 48" levels (for vertical work)
heavy duty extension cords
KINEE PADS!! :-)
screwgun or nailgun (where CBU will be used)

Q) What about tile spacing and tpes of grout?

A) According to Dave Gobis from the Ceramic Tile Education Foundation in Pendleton, South Carolina, there will finally be a new standard for ceramic tile next year. The tolerances are shrinking. There will also be a standard for rectified tile. Along with that, there will be a revision to the installation standards that will specifically recommend a grout joint no less than 3 times the variation of the tile. For rectified tile the minimum grout joint width will be .075 or just over a 1/16".

As for grout, there's only one thing that determines whether you use sanded or unsanded grout, and that's the size of the grout joint. Anything less than 1/8" you use unsanded grout. 1/8" or larger, you need to use sanded grout. The reason is that the main ingredient in grout is porland cement, which tends to shrink as it dries. In joints 1/8" or larger, the grout will shrink way too much and end up cracking ans shrinking into the joint. The sand give the grout bulk, and the sanded grout won't shrink nearly as much and therefore, can be used in the larger joints.

NOTES:

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clipped on: 09.21.2009 at 02:24 am    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 07:11 pm

Tub deck tiling/cabinet question

posted by: kgsd on 07.14.2009 at 08:51 am in Bathrooms Forum

We have a drop-in tub on a deck in the corner of the bathroom (i.e., walls on two sides of the deck). The bathroom vanity cabinets run right up to the side of the deck, so the cabinets cover about 2 ft of the side.

How should I handle that side of the deck? Should I attach the cabinets to the bare framing, and then caulk the place where they meet? Or should I tile the whole deck and not attach the cabinets?

Thanks!

NOTES:

Answer:

It depends on whether the tile on the face of the tubdeck would interfere with the operation of the doors of the vanity. If not, then by all means, attach it right to the bare tub skirt, and tile up to it. If it WOULD interfere, then tile first and then install the vanity.

clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 06:38 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 06:39 pm

RE: Ideas for tub deck/apron (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: monicakm on 06.17.2009 at 08:42 am in Bathrooms Forum

Sorry, I meant to include a picture

NOTES:

Bain Ultra tub. Travertine lookalike porcelain tile deck and apron w/ glass tile inserts. Tumbled travertine and glass tile border above porcelain on walls.
clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 06:29 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 06:30 pm

RE: my bathroom. I'll post from start to finish (Follow-Up #46)

posted by: folkman on 07.07.2008 at 09:58 am in Bathrooms Forum

July 7,
Hope you all had a good 4th.

So my girlfriend and I were basically locked in the bathroom all weekend but we got a lot done!

First off here is a show of the shower. We have the nitch in and the accent tile in the center (matches the style we mounted on the vanity). Today they do the shower floor and grout. They will come back in a few days to color enhance!
Photobucket

First thing on Friday was to close off the walls with drywall. This was tricky. The original drywall was 3/4 thick and I can only buy 1/2 now so I first put in a 1/4 drywall panels then the 1/2 on top. By the way I hate drywalling!:

Photobucket

Then started the beadboard. That went pretty smoothly. I cut to length, my girlfriend applied the "liquid nails" and I put in place. I used some finish nails to hold it all in place

Photobucket

I ran out of beadboard at the very end which was very tough but I moved to doing the cap moulding and baseboard. This went pretty easily and I liked the finished look.

Photobucket

This image shows the cut out I did for the "concealed cabinet" I am building behind a picture frame. I'll work on that next:

Photobucket

So all in all a good week. I called the electricians to come back and finish their work. Plumber will be in Thursday and tile guys later this week too.

Have to find tile to look at shower doors this week.

Its coming together!

NOTES:

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clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 06:17 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 06:17 pm

RE: my bathroom. I'll post from start to finish (Follow-Up #43)

posted by: folkman on 07.03.2008 at 09:17 am in Bathrooms Forum

July 3.
Okay some progress! The tile work moves on and we have the shower area mostly done. See the image. I love the square slate border tiles we picked out and the tile setter suggested the diamond turned tiles for the top half. Looks nice:

Photobucket

Then they finished the floor tile. I really like this as well.

Photobucket

So today they want to finish up most of the tile work and do the grout. This gives me the long weekend to close up the walls with drywall and start getting that beadboard on. So it will be a busy weekend. I hope to have a big change to show you all by Monday!

Oh some people have asked. The square tile for the shower has different names on it but all say "00412" Sometimes called Antique gold, sometimes something else but the "00412" number is constant so we knew it was the same tiles (there is a lighter version of this same tile also at HD but they all carried a different number).

also next week we will get to the shower door place to pick out the door and have them come measure. I want a frameless, clear glass one but we'll see what the prices are!

Happy 4th!

NOTES:

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clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 06:08 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 06:09 pm

RE: bathtub installation questions - Mongo, anyone else? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: mongoct on 07.09.2009 at 10:22 am in Bathrooms Forum

For the deck, my technique:

Yes, for a "generic" installation you frame it, then use CDX ply on the top of the frame, then 15 lb felt on top of the ply, then use thinset and screws to set the cement board on top of the ply/felt.

If you think you'll be getting a lot of water/splashing on the tub deck, you can treat the top surface of the cement board instead of using felt underneath the cement board. Use RedGard, Kerdi, or some other topical waterproofing to better protect the deck. You can also run the waterproofing up the walls a little bit.

Here's where paths can diverge regarding tub installation.

After the cement board is installed, some will install the tub and leave it shimmed high so that the deck tiles can be slipped under the tub's rim when the tiling is done at a later date. Others will tile the deck first, then drop the tub in on top of the tile. Some others even drop the tub in with the rim in contact with the cement board, then tile up to the edge of the tub rim, and caulk the gap.

I prefer tiling the deck completely then dropping the tub in on top of the tile.

You only put the mortar bed down at the moment when you are ready to set the tub. And remember, it's the base of the tub (mortar bed) that supports the tub, not the rim. You don't want the tub "hanging" from the rim. The mortar bed (or tub feet for a non-mortared installation) should support the tub with the rim just contacting the tile.

After the tub is set you can make the plumbing connections, test for leaks, then tile the front apron.

For a soaking tub there's generally no need to treat the adjacent walls unless you think your soaks will create the occasional tidal wave. If you're going to add a baseboard or trim piece where the tub deck meets the wall, you can fold the tar paper (or previously mentioned Kerdi or Redgard) up the wall a few inches and cover it with the trim piece. Some people also run a row of tile on the wall as a transition.

Caulk the junction where the tub deck meets the wall trim or wall tile.

There should be no need to remove and replace the existing wall board around a soaking tub installation.

I do all the work myself, so I can control the work order and shift from one thing to another. If you're subbing out the tile, you might be better served by arranging things so your tiler can tile everything at once to minimize site visits and installation costs. In that case an access panel for the plumbing would help.

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.10.2009 at 05:36 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 05:59 pm

RE: kohler archer airbath, kohler tea for 2 soaking, or toto 1550 (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: marisany on 09.20.2009 at 09:53 pm in Bathrooms Forum

marie-louise, after agonizing over the decision for months, and having as recently as last week been sure that I would order cast iron, I am about to order the Archer (soaker; no jets) tomorrow. You are lucky to have a place like Tubz. I have dragged around to more than half a dozen bath showrooms, and each had only a few tubs for me to try. I tried the Archer on Friday, and went back and tried it again on Saturday. It is, as you say, very very comfortable. I have found that I don't usually like lumbar support (strange lump at bottom of tub slope), and the reason I went back was that I saw the drawings and noticed the lumbar support. I went back to make sure that it was comfortable. Somehow the lumbar support doesn't bother me, maybe because it is minimal.

For those who are wondering, I am 5'8" tall, and my feet don't quite meet the end of the 5' long Archer. The width is something like 32" and that is plenty for me (and I am not, alas, thin!)

I was, at one point, on the brink of ordering a 24" deep tub. Then I learned how difficult it is to get in and out of. The Archer is a good compromise - the high overflow slit means that it fills up more, so you get a good DTO with a low tub height.

It is also very inexpensive - I was quoted under $300 for 5' long.

Oh, and I somehow became sold on acrylic in the last week - a combination of reading posts here, looking at the tubs, and learning from salespeople.

Hope your reno goes well, marie-louise. My contractor started Friday, and demolition is almost done.

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clipped on: 09.22.2009 at 05:56 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2009 at 05:56 pm

RE: What's your favorite BM beige? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: marisany on 07.08.2009 at 03:23 pm in Bathrooms Forum

I was searching for the thread I posted last summer, in which I agonized over which beige to use in my small bathroom with white toilet and sink, durango limestone floor. I had posted photos of the bathroom with about a dozen color samples. I guess they disappear after a while?

I ended up using BM Everlasting, which is, I believe, on the same color strip as Stone House, which I also love. Everlasting is lighter. I also considered SW Bagel, a great color.

Here's a photo of the almost-finished bathroom with Everlasting walls:

Photobucket

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clipped on: 07.10.2009 at 05:38 pm    last updated on: 07.10.2009 at 05:38 pm

RE: Urgent! - need a decision for pony wall or not?? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: mongoct on 07.02.2009 at 03:21 pm in Bathrooms Forum

What pharoah said.

I have a photo somewhere that shows a pony wall alternative...the "pony wall" I built is actually a cabinet about 48" tall and 12" wide that I made for additional storage in the bath. But the size of my bath prevents it from creating a choke point.

the one limitation is your 5' depth...I'd say do quick mock up with cardboard and see if:

1) It looks good to you and

2) Thew wall doesn't create a traffic choke point where you have to squeeze around it to get to the toilet.

the 19" on either side of the toilet centerline is adequate. Code minimum is 15" per side.

Mongo

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clipped on: 07.05.2009 at 09:48 pm    last updated on: 07.05.2009 at 09:48 pm

RE: Handshower for bathtub worth it? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: zippy_one on 04.26.2009 at 11:51 am in Bathrooms Forum

The diverter I have used is:
Hansgrohe Inversa Diverter-
"Diverts between showerarm and showerhead"

Here is a link that might be useful: Hansgrohe diverter

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clipped on: 07.01.2009 at 11:39 pm    last updated on: 07.01.2009 at 11:39 pm

RE: Handshower for bathtub worth it? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: nkkp on 04.26.2009 at 09:36 am in Bathrooms Forum

Zippy one makes a great point. Use a faucet with a diverter and you can save big money. You won't need an additional valve and it will save on clutter on the top of the tub. I did a quick google search and found a sample of one: Tub Faucet with Diverter for Hand Held

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clipped on: 07.01.2009 at 11:38 pm    last updated on: 07.01.2009 at 11:38 pm

RE: Mongo, would you give me some specs on your fab bath?? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: mongoct on 04.01.2009 at 03:36 pm in Bathrooms Forum

Okay, going from left to right:

1) The closet on the left, 20-3/4" wide and 23-3/4"deep.

2) cabinet to the left of the sink: 18-1/4" wide, 21-3/4" deep, cabinet is 33-1/4" tall, with 1-1/2" thick countertop the top of the teak countertop is 34-3/4" high.

3) center sink cabinet: 32-1/4" wide, 23-1/4" deep.

4) same as #2.

5) The tall dividing cabinet: 15-1/2" wide, 32-3/4" deep, the cabinet is 48" tall, and with the 1" thick teak on it, the top of the teak is 49" tall.

Cabinet #5 is indeed a pullout pantry type of cabinet. The top drawer has electrics in it, my wife uses that for keeping her hair dryer, etc, plugged in.

The bottom part of the pantry is storage. Looking at it from the front, vertically it's divided in half. When you pull it open, the shelves that face the sink are 4" deep. It's almost like a medicine cabinet for my wife. The shelves that face the toilet side are about 5-1/2" deep, that's where we store cleaning supplies, rolls of toilet paper, etc. I sized the shelf depth for rolls of TP and paper towels.

Construction was very basic. Birch plywood carcasses and poplar face frames. There is some MDF mixed in there as well. Oil primer. Two coats of latex topcoat in that room. I'm almost always an oil paint guy, but I think I painted that room in the winter and with closed windows I went with latex.

I may have some as-I-went construction photos.

Original design had a slightly different layout; two sinks, and a makeup "desk" area with a kneehole. My wife wanted no part of a makeup area, she stands in front of Cabinet #5 and uses the round mirror. She also wanted no part of two sinks. We share, no issues.

I did a mock up of the countertop height, as I'm 6'4" and my wife is 5'1". She actually loves the taller height.

Mongo

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clipped on: 07.01.2009 at 11:17 pm    last updated on: 07.01.2009 at 11:17 pm

RE: another weird granite question (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: carpentershop on 08.22.2007 at 10:39 pm in Kitchens Forum

I know that some of the guys over at stoneadvice.com posted that the "black list" was for fabrication issues only, and I am quite familular with the thread. There were some complaining that some stones shouldn't be on the list.

That said, why did they pull the thread off the public pages and put it in the "Dark Room"? Were the thread just about PITA stones to fabricate, homeowners would benefit from knowing which ones have a built in charge for difficulty to fabricate. Some of the stones were on their for scratching or staining, some were labeled as "Junk" by individual fabricators.

Here is the list, as of last May. Look down aways for the actual list. Note the fabricator taking down his sample of White Persia, Genisis crumbling like blue cheese in this woman's hands (Never again, she says), Breccia Oniceata fabricator says to stock up on epoxy before cutting it, and Black Matrix that is near impossible to polish on the edges and is easy to scratch.

Maron Cohiba
Labrador Antique
Delicatus
Sea Foam Green
Golden Ice
Sucuri
Honey Gold
Gold and Silver
Antique Brown
Negro Rosada
ghibli
kash white
kash gold
brown antique (kryptonite in there...snaps finger bits)
rain forest
borduex
corral reef
some rainforst material
all the indian juperanas
delicatus
gahriba beach
coral reaf
Mascarello
purple dunas
juperana golden
Aqua Grantique
Mantegna
Bianco Antico
Tropical Treasure
Amadeus
Geriba Beach
Oro Romano
White Spring
Matrix
Black Forest
Amber Fantasy
gold carrocca
Azul Macuba
Angelica Black
Metallic-it has gneiss, which is a striated metamorphic stone AKIN to granite
jurassic green
Copper silk
GENESIS

I used to tell people how great the stoneadvice.com site was, but when they yanked this, they did consumers a disservice.

Here is a copy of the last page, where you will find the comments about some of the stones.










Stone black List

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blaight
Trusted Friend

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 48
Location: salmon arm, bc. canada

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: For what it's worth

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI....Just finished the white persia kitchen...found out that if you use a sander and 80 thru 320 grit sand paper we had zero blow outs or crumbling of this stone..went to 800 wet and up after that and it was a beauty of a finish.....
I'm still taking down my sample of this stone...........
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Brian Laight
Hard Rock Granite
Salmon Arm, BC.
250-832-4341
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Checketts
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Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Providence Ut.

Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:03 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Bianco Romano slabs must not be created equil.
We did a 3cm job with a 2-3/4'' edge on a very large island with no problems.
The island was so long we had to use the ends off of a bookmatched slab to make it long enough.
I have another job coming up. Hope it goes just as well.
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Rock on!
Chris Checketts, SFA
http://www.stoneadvice.com/forum/Stone-Tips4928.html
Granitetopsofutah.com
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actoffice
Best Friend

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Cleveland, GA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STAY AWAY FROM GENESIS!!!!

I am screaming that for a reason- expensive stone that crumbles like blue cheese. In fact, when we were trying to repair a piece, I was taking pieces of it and crushing it in my hands (and I am not that strong of a girl).

NEVER AGAIN!!

BTW, I compiled a list of the stones we have been talking about- I will post it in a few minutes, that way we have something to work with.

Jackie
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Mark Lammers,SFA or Jackie Peck, SFA
http://www.appalachianwaterjetandstone.com
Cleveland, GA
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actoffice
Best Friend

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Cleveland, GA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stone Fabrication Black List (as of 5/21/07)

Maron Cohiba
Labrador Antique
Delicatus
Sea Foam Green
Golden Ice
Sucuri
Honey Gold
Gold and Silver
Antique Brown
Negro Rosada
ghibli
kash white
kash gold
brown antique (kryptonite in there...snaps finger bits)
rain forest
borduex
corral reef
some rainforst material
all the indian juperanas
delicatus
gahriba beach
coral reaf
Mascarello
purple dunas
juperana golden
Aqua Grantique
Mantegna
Bianco Antico
Tropical Treasure
Amadeus
Geriba Beach
Oro Romano
White Spring
Matrix
Black Forest
Amber Fantasy
gold carrocca
Azul Macuba
Angelica Black
Metallic-it has gneiss, which is a striated metamorphic stone AKIN to granite
jurassic green
Copper silk
GENESIS
_________________
Mark Lammers,SFA or Jackie Peck, SFA
http://www.appalachianwaterjetandstone.com
Cleveland, GA
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Mark Lauzon
Platnum Fez Cap Wearing Super Homeboy

Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 4301
Location: Oregon

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is antique lab on the list? That is really a nice stone.
We also have processed TONS of succuri with no issues.
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Regards,
Mark Lauzon, SFA, MIA
www.stoneworks.cc
www.granitemonster.com
Get Allied...Join The SFA!
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actoffice
Best Friend

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Cleveland, GA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just placed on the list what was posted in the past from other people. We have done Succuri as well that turned out nice.

I thought about placing small snipets of the opinions of the stone with it- but I had a customer come in when I was pulling this together. I will try to edit it tonight after I spend time with my ankle biters (kids- sorry)

Have a great Monday!
Jackie
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Mark Lammers,SFA or Jackie Peck, SFA
http://www.appalachianwaterjetandstone.com
Cleveland, GA
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Timm


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Gig Harbor, Wa.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: Gerbia Beach

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We just got a job with gerbia beach, and I noticed it on the black list. Does anyone have any advice on what to be carefull with when fabricating this stone? Should I be weary about doing an undermount on it? Thanks
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fellow fabricator
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Chris
Uber Super Dooper Friend

Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 1648
Location: Willows, Ca

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's it, I'm not cutting stone anymore, too many black listed materials.
_________________
Chris Freeman, SFA
Freeman Granite & Marble Inc.
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Clyde Kingry
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Dothan, Alabama

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Breccia Oniceata......

Must have plenty of epoxy around before starting fabrication, especially running 2cm Ogee in the CNC.

BAM!!! Get the glue.

Every time we work with this stuff, I say "never again".
_________________
"Our Reputation Is Set In Stone"
__________________________

Clyde M. Kingry, SFA, MIA, MBNA
Vice President
Southside Granite Co.
Dothan, AL 36301
est. 1941

(334) 794-4161
(334) 797-5083
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Stone Dude
Best Friend

Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Southern California

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:55 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POOP ON BLACK MATRIX
_________________
Cameron DeMille
Natural Stone Restoration
@
DeMille Marble & Granite
MIA member

check out DeMilleMarble.com
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Clyde Kingry
Best Friend

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Dothan, Alabama

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:44 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stone Dude wrote:
POOP ON BLACK MATRIX

We had some stuff called Matrix a few weeks ago. The stuff was strange looking, but nice looking. Had a stratified appearance when broken. Nearly impossible to get a good polish on the edge. Very easily scratched. It was a grey metallic color. I don't care if we see anymore of it.

Same stuff?
_________________
"Our Reputation Is Set In Stone"
__________________________

Clyde M. Kingry, SFA, MIA, MBNA
Vice President
Southside Granite Co.
Dothan, AL 36301
est. 1941

(334) 794-4161
(334) 797-5083
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Here is another thread talking about the black list, look about half way down, june 10th or so and one shop mentions that using black listed materials voids their warranty, the word crap was mentioned.

http://www.stoneadvice.com/forum/feeling-silly-dark-granites-most-durable-t2962.html?highlight=granite%20black%20list
True sometimes they mention that the black list is more toward fabrication, but do a search and you will find threads where consumers were clearly using the list to pick out their stone. Sometimes the experts said nothing, other times they claimed the list was for fabrication.

How about it Stoneadvice.com, how about putting it back up so consumers can make up their own minds?

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clipped on: 08.24.2007 at 08:12 pm    last updated on: 08.24.2007 at 08:12 pm

95% done

posted by: njd1227 on 07.11.2007 at 10:33 pm in Kitchens Forum

Crown molding and handles were installed today. The undermolding never made it by 7pm. Maybe Friday. Still waiting for the plumber and electrician. The cabinet installer suggested what he calls "end panels" on 2 upper end cabinets and 1 lower. He said it would give it a more finished look. They look like the door panels but no handles. The granite on the uppers (backsplash) spills over about 3/4" beyond the cabinets. These end panels will fill that space. It sounded reasonable and I can envision it. Have you ever heard of this?

Here is a link that might be useful: granite install and crown moldings

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clipped on: 07.12.2007 at 05:55 pm    last updated on: 07.12.2007 at 05:56 pm

RE: Built In Microwave - Any ideas on models? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: cloud_swift on 02.21.2007 at 10:18 am in Appliances Forum

blessed, I think that is tall enough for most bowls. It is over 7 inches (almost 7 1/2") from the lip on the turn table to the top of the front opening. Once inside, the distance is more like 8" because the ceiling goes up a bit so anything that fits in the opening would have some breathing room.

Since microwaves heat shallow things best, I usually put things in wide shallow bowls where possible for best heating. If you had a really large quantity of stuff or something that you couldn't transfer, it would be likely to fit. It is 1.4 cu ft which makes it mid-sized. The side opening KA KCMS185JSS is 1.8 cu ft.

In another post you were asking about convection microwaves. I think the height and size is fine for a microwave. If you want a convection microwave to be a second oven, the size might be kind of limiting.

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clipped on: 07.12.2007 at 05:39 pm    last updated on: 07.12.2007 at 05:39 pm

RE: please share eat-in kitchen island pics (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: shawneeks on 07.11.2007 at 01:17 pm in Kitchens Forum

We also use the island for the kids and friends quite often, and have the dining table right next to it.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

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clipped on: 07.11.2007 at 11:32 pm    last updated on: 07.11.2007 at 11:32 pm

RE: What length pulls for 30' drawers? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: meg711 on 07.11.2007 at 08:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

We used 6" pulls throughout our kitchen, from the narrowest 15" drawers to the 35" pot drawers, and on each of the doors which were over 50" high.

Here's a photo. Sorry if it's a little out of focus:

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Here's the pull, from Top Knobs:

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

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clipped on: 07.11.2007 at 09:47 pm    last updated on: 07.11.2007 at 09:47 pm

RE: Support for overhang on granite counter top. (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: pacmary on 05.15.2007 at 08:49 pm in Remodeling Forum

I am definitely going with the steel bars. My Silestone dealer says my 12 inch overhang definitely needs support. They recommend at least 3 for my 8 foot countertop, but we're doing 4- 1 toward each end and 1 on each side of the sink where the overhang is most vulnerable.

I called "steel fabricating" companies (in the Yellow Pages) and they all carry (and had in stock) 1/4 inch thick "rolled steel flat bars". They come in 20 foot lengths and in 2, 2.5, and 3 inch widths. The cost per bar ranged from $22 to $30, and the company I am using charges $1 per cut. They cut while you wait. I did not ask about hole drilling because we can do that ourselves. All 4 will cost under $35!!

I am thrilled that I don't need corbels. Had them, hate them. No matter where you put them, they are always in the way of the chairs and/or the knees!

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clipped on: 07.03.2007 at 06:45 pm    last updated on: 07.03.2007 at 06:45 pm

RE: Anyone understand how to get an airswitch put in? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: lovingwdw on 06.30.2007 at 09:15 pm in Kitchens Forum

Dh installed ours--he says ours has a regular plug, that plugs into a regular outlet. The garbage disposal has a regular cord as well, that plugs into the switch. There is a tube that runs from the airswitch at the counter to the part that plugs into the wall. All the electrician did for us was install a regular outlet under the sink, and attach the power cord to the disposal. The last part really doesn't have anything to do with the airswitch--it had to be done either way, and the electrician didn't even know we were getting an airswitch.

We purchased our airswitch at Expo, I think it's an Insinkerator brand. It was relatively inexpensive, and works great!

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clipped on: 06.30.2007 at 10:17 pm    last updated on: 06.30.2007 at 10:18 pm

RE: Kenmore 36' Induction Granite Mounting Kit? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: psg8064 on 05.08.2007 at 05:24 pm in Appliances Forum

Don't waste your money on the Kenmore granite installation kit. They charge over $100 for a couple of brackets and a tube of RTV silicone sealant.

The brackets look exactly like the ones that come with the cooktop, except they a have series of small holes that help the RTV sealant stick to the granite. You can make your own by drilling the extra holes in each of the brackets that came with the countertop and buying a tube of RTV silicone sealant at your local hardware store.

That's what I ended up doing and I'm returning the kit for a refund.

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clipped on: 06.28.2007 at 06:21 pm    last updated on: 06.28.2007 at 06:21 pm

RE: removing wall between kitchen and living-good idea? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: patti823 on 05.25.2007 at 11:11 pm in Kitchens Forum

Thanks yaknakterry!!
I bet you cannot wait until you see your finished kitchen!! I cannot even imagine it taking a year. I'm sure you won't be sorry that you removed the wall, I love my open room. It sure is a shock seeing it gone, isn't it? I got my slate at a place called the Tile Shop. There is one near where I live, so I picked it up from the store. Here is a link to their website, you can order from there if there's no location near you. I got the baoding cream tiles, and I enhanced them when we sealed it(it's an all in one product). You don't have to enhance them, you can just seal them if you prefer a lighter, more dusty look. If you wet them with a spray bottle of water, you can see what the tiles would like like when they're enhanced. It took me a long time to decide which way I liked better, but in the end I'm glad I enhanced them. It really brings out the textures and colors. Best of luck with your kitchen!
Patti

Here is a link that might be useful: The Tile Shop

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clipped on: 06.28.2007 at 05:32 pm    last updated on: 06.28.2007 at 05:32 pm

RE: Another input request -backsplash to dazzle my new granite (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: patti823 on 04.06.2007 at 08:53 am in Kitchens Forum

Here is my backsplash.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

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clipped on: 06.26.2007 at 05:37 pm    last updated on: 06.26.2007 at 05:37 pm

We're done! (pics)

posted by: amro62 on 06.17.2007 at 09:55 pm in Kitchens Forum

The kitchen is finished!

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Whew!

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clipped on: 06.17.2007 at 11:40 pm    last updated on: 06.17.2007 at 11:40 pm

RE: Please show me your Marmoleum Kitchens (Follow-Up #38)

posted by: maureen_mn on 12.01.2006 at 05:40 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi --
We've had our marmoleum (color shell) in our new kitchen for a year and a half, and we really love it. It's so warm and really comfortable underfoot. And hides dirt so well. We went with the sheet floor and had it installed. The ambering was not noticeable at all, maybe because we were still getting used to the colors in there, how they change with the light.
Photo: Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Here is a link that might be useful: other kitchen photos

NOTES:

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clipped on: 06.08.2007 at 05:28 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2007 at 05:28 pm

RE: storing glass cookware in pantry - how? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: sharb on 03.05.2007 at 12:31 am in Kitchens Forum

I have this photo in my file and may have gotten it from here. I thought it was a good way to store some things in the pantry, but don't understand exactly if this is what you meant.. They have used small extension rods so you can make the spaces as wide or tall as you need.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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clipped on: 05.31.2007 at 02:42 pm    last updated on: 05.31.2007 at 02:42 pm

RE: KD advises against wood floor (Follow-Up #27)

posted by: mtnwomanbc on 04.03.2007 at 02:31 am in Kitchens Forum

Chiming in here with O'Donna...in my un-reno'ed kitchen, I have Hartco Pattern Plus engineered wood plank floors. It has an acrylic impregnated finish, not urethane or oil, that carries both the stain and acrylic all the way through the top layer. After almost 10 years, it's pretty bombproof. Much of my reno dilemma is how to keep the floor while changing the kitchen layout. (I only have about 7 planks leftover--good thinking, Donna, saving several boxes.)

Since both the bottoms and tongue-and-grooves are glued, water doesn't penetrate, either through the acrylic or through the seams.

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clipped on: 05.24.2007 at 10:30 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2007 at 10:30 pm

RE: KD advises against wood floor (Follow-Up #25)

posted by: organic_donna on 04.02.2007 at 09:40 pm in Kitchens Forum

There are good reasons that people get engineered instead of site finished floors. I live in a highrise and my subfloor is concrete. The best install for concrete is prefinished engineered wood with a glue down installation. Wood planks that are site finished need a nail down installation, which requires a subfloor that usually is plywood. I've had site finished floors in other houses and I like this floor better. The cashmere finish is really beautiful.
Donna

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clipped on: 05.24.2007 at 10:29 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2007 at 10:29 pm

RE: Floor underneath Cabients & Island? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: knot2fast on 03.27.2007 at 10:30 pm in Kitchens Forum

No need for expensive flooring underneath the cabinets, but you must run plywood (or equivalent) the same height as your flooring under them. Your appliances may not fit properly if the cabinets aren't set at finish floor height.

Usually, the finish flooring is run partway underneath the range, dishwasher, and refrigerator areas only so the plywood won't be exposed under the front of the appliances.

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clipped on: 05.24.2007 at 10:26 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2007 at 10:26 pm

RE: For Those With Electrical Outlets on Island... (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: cloud_swift on 04.06.2007 at 12:30 am in Kitchens Forum

We have three outlets on an 8 by 4 foot island. Two under the overhang - each near the corner. One of those is in a shallow box (which is I expect claybabe means by low relief) so as to not interfer with the positioning of pull out shelves that open toward the end of the island. The other one is not in a shallow box because it is a GFIC which is a little big for a shallow box.

Outlet under overhang:
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Inside the cabinet with the shallow box:
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
Someone here said they shouldn't have used a plastic box with conduit but I'm not worried about it because the I know the conduit is grounded into a metal box at the other end.

Here is the regular depth box on the outlet with the GFIC:
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The outlets are Lutron satin midnight and the cover plates are natural cherry from Arnev.com.
The third outlet is in the false drawer front of the prep sink convenient for food prep tool - it gets the most use.

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clipped on: 05.24.2007 at 07:53 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2007 at 07:54 pm

RE: Best lighting for Island cooktop/prep area (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: dmlove on 05.08.2007 at 07:47 pm in Lighting Forum

We have two prep areas, one that is lit by two recessed 50-eatt halogen lights in 4" recessed cans 4 ft. above the counter, and the other that is lit by a hanging inverted pendant that uses 4 60w candelabra-style bulbs. The pendant's "body" (called the diffuser, which should have given me a hint) is ivory colored acrylic. My point in telling you all this is that we don't think the pendant, even with 240 watts of bulbs) provides anywhere near the light as the 100 watts of halogen on the other surface. It must be due to the fact that the halogens are "pin-point" -- very directed to the area they're lighting, and the fact that the pendant's cover diffuses the light much more. That said, I love my pendant because it's beautiful - LOL!

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clipped on: 05.24.2007 at 04:52 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2007 at 04:52 pm

RE: Best lighting for Island cooktop/prep area (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: joanie212 on 05.12.2007 at 10:45 pm in Lighting Forum

The cans are in and what an adventure that is when it's a remodel. The lighting designer recommended a triangular configuration over the cooktop/prep area with it repeated at the other end over the eating area with the pendant lighting. Great idea, however, when doing a remodel you have to deal with joist, vents and all other kinds of stuff overhead. We tried to do it as evenly as possible and when something had to be moved 3-4 inches we tried to balance it on the other side. Not only were we dealing with cans, I also have an induction cooktop, speedcook oven and a TV that all needed their own circuits. My electrician was so accomodating and really wanted to make sure everything was done to my liking. I've taken alot of photos and will try to post them soon. I also asked him about the par30 vs. r30. He said cost was a big factor and if I wanted to pay $10 for each par30 vs. $2 for r30 I could change them anytime I wanted. He suggested I try the r30's and maybe change just specific ones to par 30's. He also made the comment that pars are "hotter" than r30's. That's it for now. The rough-in inspection is monday am. Thanks again everyone!

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clipped on: 05.24.2007 at 04:50 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2007 at 04:51 pm

RE: Support for Soapstone Overhangs (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: honeyb2 on 05.07.2007 at 05:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

I've been waiting for someone to ask this question because I made a compilation of words and pix from patti823, cloud_swift, patches123 and julirs and myself. Here they are:
1. honeyb2
You can get a metal fabricator to make metal bars for the counter to sit on. Then you don't need corbels. I have 2 for a 60 inch island. Flat bars work just as well as those shown here and are less visible from below. They are screwed in to the inside of the cabinet frame on the front of the island (right side of picture) and set into notches on the back side of the island where the granite overhang is.

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2. patches123 said....

We did the set up like honeyb2, but used flat bars...but we found the steel at Home Depot...its in the metalworks section. It took awhile to sort through them and get the really thick ones. We got a metal boring bit and screwed the metal into the cabinet (which requires notching the cabinets). I think it was $25 total for the metal.

3. julirs said her supports look like this....
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4. cloud_swift said.....

Here are ours - they stick out for about 12" and our overhang is 15". The black things inset into the plywood in our pictures are flat metal bars - 2" wide. I can't remember how thick they are - maybe 1/4". Our fabricator wants plywood under the granite. From what I've seen on stoneadvice, some fabricators want plywood under only 2 cm, some want it under everything and some don't use it. If your fabricator puts plywood on the cabinet tops, I expect they would also have it go under the overhang. Plywood enough isn't enough support for the overhang because it can flex under load - that's why the overhang needs the steel bars.

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5. patti823 said...

I have a 12 " overhang on my island, which has cabinets on the other side. My GC built the island with 2x4's and then drywalled it. I have 3 L brackets screwed into the drywall(there will be wood panels over that), and the fabricator then epoxied/siliconed the granite to the top of the drywall and the top of the brackets. You can't see the brackets unless you look up underneath the bar. It worked out fine. Here's a pic so you can visualize it.

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HTH!

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clipped on: 05.23.2007 at 02:51 pm    last updated on: 05.23.2007 at 02:51 pm

Sink reveal on Galaxy Sink-need help!

posted by: dragonfly717 on 05.15.2007 at 06:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

My granite fabricators came today to "template" the granite. The Galaxy Sink that I had ordered did not come with a template (I called and they said that some of the sinks do not come with a template because it is a Straight cut?).
Anyhoo--Does anyone have the SS508, or a similar sink. I would like to use the strainer and grid, so I want to make sure the I have enough of a reveal, but just enough. No need for a bigger ledge if it is not neccessary. Any insight?? The sink is below . . .Thanks!!

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clipped on: 05.16.2007 at 01:23 am    last updated on: 05.16.2007 at 01:23 am

RE: kenmore induction cooktop users are you pleased? (Follow-Up #45)

posted by: gbk1 on 12.13.2005 at 08:43 pm in Appliances Forum

vectorguy:

Link to pdf file of owner's manual:
http://www.sears.com/data/advertisements/appliances/IndCookOwnersManual.pdf

Link to pdf file of specs (includes countertop cutout dimensions, clearances, etc.):
http://www.sears.com/data/advertisements/appliances/Induction%20Cooktop%20Specs.pdf

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clipped on: 05.14.2007 at 10:53 pm    last updated on: 05.14.2007 at 10:53 pm

RE: kenmore induction cooktop users are you pleased? (Follow-Up #31)

posted by: Ronwald007 on 12.09.2005 at 07:41 pm in Appliances Forum

Am I correct that the unit, from top to bottom, is only 4 3/4 inches deep? If I deduct 3/4" for my granite, 5/8" for the plywood below the granite, and consider that at least 1/8" of ceramic glass will be above the granite, if my cabinets are 34 1/2 inches tall, that should place the bottom of the Induction top at 31 1/4 inches. Do I have this right?

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clipped on: 05.14.2007 at 10:51 pm    last updated on: 05.14.2007 at 10:51 pm

RE: kenmore induction cooktop users are you pleased? (Follow-Up #32)

posted by: jxbrown on 12.09.2005 at 09:17 pm in Appliances Forum

Oh no, it's thinner than that. There is 1/2" above the counter and 2" below the surface of the counter. The pigtail in back comes out of the bottom of the unit and the little elbow conduit that holds the power supply is about 1" high. My drawers don't go all the way back so the conduit is behind them. My countertop is 1.5" thick and the top of the cabinet box is 0.75" thick, so the cooktop doesn't extend into the inside of the cabinet box at all except the power supply.

There are vents below the ceran top and above the counter which account for the height above the counter.

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clipped on: 05.14.2007 at 10:51 pm    last updated on: 05.14.2007 at 10:51 pm

Sink base storage ideas for cutting boards, scrub brush, etc.

posted by: valinsv on 05.12.2007 at 10:55 am in Kitchens Forum

I'm would like to get some under sink organizers for my sink bases and am considering some Rev-a-Shelf products. Would love to know if anynoe has these and can recommend them or other solutions as well as best place to order.

We opted not to put in sink tilt-outs to store the scrub brush, vegi brush, etc. I was concerned it would set my sinks back too far. So, now where do I store this stuff out of the way, but still very accessable? I'm considering either of these two:

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cutting boards: Plan to use the plastic ones and storage under the prep sink cabinet. I'm thinking of putting an organizer on the back of the door; however, am also concerned about it messing up the door since they do get rinsed and cleaned a lot. There is this one by Rev-Shelf, but I'm not sure this is that practical if the boards are wet/damp. Also, have no need for the wooden cutting board.

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Disk towels: I'm thinking of getting one of the pull-outs in the sink. Anyone have them, like them?

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clipped on: 05.13.2007 at 11:22 pm    last updated on: 05.13.2007 at 11:22 pm

certifiable ths tko finished kitchen (long)

posted by: thull on 08.03.2006 at 04:07 pm in Kitchens Forum

We finally finished up our remodel to the point where we could move back in a few weeks ago. Have a lot of projects still to be done around the house, but the kitchen and master bath are done enough to show.

I'm going to try to insert pix as I go, so I apologize to anyone on a slow connection. And the photos aren't the greatest in terms of lighting. Taking them at night and keeping a good exposure balance wasn't easy.

The particulars:

Cabinets: Scherr's, doors are shaker with solid center panel in select cherry
Knobs/pulls: Knob Hill "martini" knob (HD only) and Liberty "retro curl" pull (knobsandthings.com)
Range: Bluestar 36" RNB, six burners
Hood: Vent-a-hood SEPXH18-242
Granite: Verde Butterfly, 3cm
Wall paint: BM, color is 1301, I forget the name of the red
Dishwasher: Kitchenaid KUDS02FRSS
Sink: Rohl Allia 6337 undermount
Faucet: Brizo Venuto in stainless w/ soap dispenser
Disposal: Insinkerator 444 w/ air switch
Fridge: Kitchenaid KSCS25INSS
Convection/Micro: GE JE1590
Pendants: forget brand- low voltage amber pyramid pendants from HD
Backsplash: 1x1 slate mosaic w/ "antique grey" outlet covers from Vermont Slate Art
UC Lights: GE Profile fluorescent
Floor: 3/4" oak strip, mixed new and c. '49; Minwax "Golden Oak" stain, Bona Traffic finish

OK, here's the overview. We haven't found counter stools yet, but there's a 12" overhang in the front of the island. It's supported by 3/8" steel bars, and the two center panels are actually doors to a cabinet. The island is roughly 5' x 8'.

Basically, before the project, this was two rooms, with a wall that lined up where the middle of the hood/range is. Left was the dining room, and the kitchen to the right.

Here's the view to one side of the island. Left of the door is the bar (where the plastic lock is on the door). The wall cabs are 13" deep.

The glass-front cabinets house our "company" dishes and various glassware. The 36" wide drawer bases below have everyday dishes, nice flatware, and various trays/bowls/baking dishes.

Here's a couple of closer views of the island and wall w/ the range. To the left of the range is a cabinet w/ tray dividers and a 4-drawer stack. Pot and pan drawers (30", 2-drawer stack) are to the right of the range)

Here's the wall w/ pantry cabs, more drawers, the fridge and MW. The big cab to the L of the fridge has pullout trays. We have another pantry in the laundry room (outside the french door in the other photos), and we haven't worked out what to put in each yet. Drawers to the L of fridge have everyday flatware, punkin gear, and overflow pots/pans. Drawers under microwave have bags/wraps, plastic ware, and colanders/mixing bowls. Above the MW are everyday glassware and misc stuff.


Closer view of the range:

Bad, but closer view of the backsplash:

Next is the sink/faucet/DW. Left of the sink (not pictured) are two cabs, one w/ a Rev-a-shelf trash pullout, and the other a skinny one for cutting boards w/ knives in a drawer above.

And finally, SWMBA (She Who Must Be Adored) aka "punkin," who finally gets to live in her house. She had just (finally) started walking all by herself, but was still doing it "monster style" because she was used to holding someone's hand(s).

Anyway, I've been reading, learning, and finally contributing at THS for several years leading up to this. So, we're really excited to finally be in the home stretch.

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clipped on: 03.06.2007 at 12:38 am    last updated on: 03.06.2007 at 12:39 am