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RE: Front Entry Doors in Seattle Area (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: kudzu9 on 10.06.2014 at 04:32 am in Remodeling Forum

In the Seattle area, I suggest you take a look at:
- Frank Lumber "The Door Store" on 15th Ave NE in Shoreline
- Windows, Doors and More in Georgetown on Corson Ave S.

I have no connection with them other than having done business with both and found them to have a large selection of quality products at good prices.


clipped on: 11.04.2014 at 03:30 am    last updated on: 11.04.2014 at 03:30 am

Suzanne, spinossisima

posted by: harborrose on 03.30.2014 at 01:06 am in Antique Roses Forum

Does anyone grow a spin called 'Suzanne'? I am wondering about rebloom on it - and anything else you can tell me. I am really excited to have it but know very little about spins as mine are all pretty young and haven't bloomed. I've acquired Seager Wheeler, Doorenbos Selection, Mrs. Colville and Stanwell Perpetual but as I said, all are really young. I know they'll sucker. I have r. xanthina and hugonis as well and neither have bloomed.

I'm curious about pruning of spins in general as well. Do they as a class generally dislike pruning?

Thanks for any information, everybody! Gean


clipped on: 04.01.2014 at 06:39 pm    last updated on: 04.01.2014 at 06:39 pm

Tuscany Superb-I am in love

posted by: maggiepie on 07.03.2010 at 03:16 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Second year.

Tuscany Superb

Tuscany Superb

Whole bush, we had so much rain last week that all the canes were lying on the ground so had to prop it up.

Tuscany superb-bush

I hope the canes get less lax as the bush matures.


pruning advice on once bloomers
clipped on: 11.25.2013 at 03:18 am    last updated on: 11.25.2013 at 03:19 am

Differing pruning philosophies - what's yours?

posted by: lbuzzell on 12.08.2012 at 05:01 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Every year here in California we seem to have long discussions about the pros and cons of winter pruning. Some folks still swear by cutting their HTs down to 12" - 18" as if they were living back East and a mighty storm was headed their way. Others, like Gregg Lowery of Vintage Gardens, advocate a more hands-off approach, especially on OGRs, with just summer pruning for size control if needed. David Austin is also big on summer pruning for size control on the English roses. British rose research seems to indicate that the rose is perfectly happy and flowers even better with no pruning. As Gregg says, we prune for us, not for the rose.

In our garden, we mostly go with the no-pruning philosophy, mixed with year-round removal of deadwood and shaping in summer if a rose seems to be getting out of bounds. What's your philosophy?



clipped on: 11.01.2013 at 07:47 pm    last updated on: 11.01.2013 at 07:47 pm

RE: What's with these two Fairy Tale roses? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: Nippstress on 10.13.2013 at 12:00 am in Roses Forum

I had a similar experience with Lion's Fairy Tale that I mistakenly put at the front of the bed thinking it would be 3-4 feet at most. Like yours, this one sent out 6-8 feet canes that bloomed at the ends, and I'm way too lazy to move roses unless I really have to. In that case, I waited a year or two until I was sure the rose was well-established then whacked it off mercilessly at around 2.5 feet all around. It sent off these lovely well-branched canes from that point that still would rather be tall but can be kept to 4-5 feet with deep deadheading (pruning each spent branch back to around 2.5 feet after blooming). Now I have a bushy rose that blooms from 4.5 feet all the way down the cane to the shorter branches I prune more heavily, and it works OK at the front of the bed now that the bushes behind are more substantial.

I have Golden Fairy Tale and Red Riding Hood too, and they both want to do the exact same thing. Golden Fairy Tale can get taller where I have it, so I don't prune it as much, but I'm sure I'll have to do the same treatment to Red Riding Hood in a year or so. For now, I let the canes droop horizontally along the ground for RRH now, and I'll prune it back to let it bush up in the spring.

It's your choice to move them or prune them back like this, but they're not a naturally short bush in the way something like Pretty Jessica or Sharifa Asma is. If you really want to keep them below 4 feet it'll take a lot of training, and you're liable to prune out some bloom cycles.



pruning strong canes on ft roses
clipped on: 10.14.2013 at 02:26 am    last updated on: 10.14.2013 at 02:26 am

Tapla's 5-1-1 Container Mix in More Detail

posted by: goodhumusman on 02.26.2009 at 12:44 pm in Container Gardening Forum

I recently joined the forum and discovered Al's 5-1-1 Mix, but I had several questions that Al was kind enough to answer by email. I also found the answers to other questions in several different threads. I thought it would be useful to organize all of the info in one place so that we could have easy access to it. 98% of the following has been cut/pasted from Al's postings, and I apologize in advance if I have somehow misquoted him or taken his ideas out of proper context. The only significant addition from another source is the Cornell method of determining porosity, which I thought would be germane. I have used a question and answer format, using many questions from other members, and I apologize for not giving them proper credit. Thanks to all who contributed to this information. Now, here's Al:

Tapla's 5-1-1 Mix

5 parts pine bark fines
1 part sphagnum peat
1-2 parts perlite
garden lime
controlled release fertilizer (not really necessary)
a micro-nutrient source (seaweed emulsion, Earthjuice, Micro-max, STEM, etc,)

Many friends & forum folk grow in this 5-1-1 mix with very good results. I use it for all my garden display containers. It is intended for annual and vegetable crops in containers. This soil is formulated with a focus on plentiful aeration, which we know has an inverse relationship w/water retention. It takes advantage of particles, the size of which are at or just under the size that would guarantee the soil retains no perched water. (If you have not already read Al's treatise on Water in Container Soils, this would be a good time to do so.) In simple terms: Plants that expire because of drainage problems either die of thirst because the roots have rotted and can no longer take up water, or they starve/"suffocate" because there is insufficient air at the root zone to ensure normal water/nutrient uptake and root function.

I grow in highly-aerated soils with the bulk of the particles in the 1/16"-1/8" size, heavily favoring the larger particles, because we know that perched water levels decrease as particle size increases, until finally, as particle size reaches just under 1/8" the perched water table disappears entirely.

Ideal container soils will have a minimum of 60-75% total porosity. This means that when dry, in round numbers, nearly 70% of the total volume of soil is air. The term 'container capacity' is a hort term that describes the saturation level of soils after the soil is saturated and at the point where it has just stopped draining - a fully wetted soil. When soils are at container capacity, they should still have in excess of 30% air porosity. Roughly, a great soil will have about equal parts of solid particles, water, and air when the soil is fully saturated.

This is Cornell's method of determining the various types of porosity:

To ensure sufficient media porosity, it is essential to determine total porosity, aeration porosity, and water-holding porosity. Porosity can be determined through the following procedure:

* With drainage holes sealed in an empty container, fill the container and record the volume of water required to reach the top of the container. This is the container volume.

* Empty and dry the plugged container and fill it with the growing media to the top of the container.

* Irrigate the container medium slowly until it is saturated with water. Several hours may be required to reach the saturation point, which can be recognized by glistening of the medium's surface.

* Record the total volume of water necessary to reach the saturation point as the total pore volume.

* Unplug the drainage holes and allow the water to freely drain from the container media into a pan for several hours.

* Measure the volume of water in the pan after all free water has completed draining. Record this as the aeration pore volume.

* Calculate total porosity, aeration porosity, and water-holding porosity using the following equations (Landis, 1990):

* Total porosity = total pore volume / container volume
* Aeration porosity = aeration pore volume / container volume
* Water-holding porosity = total porosity - aeration porosity

The keys to why I like my 3-1-1 mix:

It's adjustable for water retention.
The ingredients are readily available to me.
It's simple - 3 basic ingredients - equal portions.
It allows nearly 100% control over the nutritional regimen.
It will not collapse - lasts longer than what is prudent between repots.
It is almost totally forgiving of over-watering while retaining good amounts of water between drinks.
It is relatively inexpensive.

Q. Why do you use pine bark fines? Bark fines of fir, hemlock or pine, are excellent as the primary component of your soils. The lignin contained in bark keeps it rigid and the rigidity provides air-holding pockets in the root zone far longer than peat or compost mixes that too quickly break down to a soup-like consistency. Conifer bark also contains suberin, a lipid sometimes referred to as nature�s preservative. Suberin, more scarce as a presence in sapwood products and hardwood bark, dramatically slows the decomposition of conifer bark-based soils. It contains highly varied hydrocarbon chains and the microorganisms that turn peat to soup have great difficulty cleaving these chains.

Q. What is the correct size of the fines? In simple terms: Plants that expire because of drainage problems either die of thirst because the roots have rotted and can no longer take up water, or they starve/"suffocate" because there is insufficient air at the root zone to insure normal water/nutrient uptake and root function.Pine bark fines are partially composted pine bark. Fines are what are used in mixes because of the small particle size. There will be a naturally occurring "perched water table" (PWT) in containers when soil particulate size is under about .125 (1/8) inch, so best would be particulates in the 1/16 - 3/16 size range with the 1/16-1/8 size range favored.

Note that there is no sand or compost in the soils I use. Sand, as most of you think of it, can improve drainage in some cases, but it reduces aeration by filling valuable macro-pores in soils. Unless sand particle size is fairly uniform and/or larger than about � BB size I leave it out of soils. Compost is too unstable for me to consider using in soils. The small amount of micro-nutrients it supplies can easily be delivered by one or more of a number of chemical or organic sources.

Q. Do you use partially composted pine bark fines? Yes - preferred over fresh fines, which are lighter in color.

Q. I found some Scotchman's Choice Organic Compost, which is made of pine bark fines averaging about 1/8" in size, and, after adding all ingredients, the 5-1-1 Mix had a total porosity of 67% and an aeration porosity of 37%. Is that all right? Yes, that is fine.

Q. What kind of lime do you use? Dolomitic.

Q. What amount of lime should I add if I used 10 gal of pine bark fines and the corresponding amount of the other ingredients? @ 5:1:1, you'll end up with about 12 gallons of soil (the whole is not equal to the sum of the parts when you're talking about soils), so I would use about 10-12 Tbsp or 2/3-3/4 cup of lime.

Q. What grade of coarseness for the lime? Most is sold as garden lime, which is usually prilled powder. Prilling makes it easier to use in drop & broadcast spreaders. The prills dissolve quickly. The finer the powder the quicker the reactive phase is finished. Much of the Ca and Mg will be unavailable until the media pH equalizes so the plant can assimilate the residual elements. Large pieces of lime really extend the duration of the reactive phase.

Q. Does this mean that I need to make up the soil in advance? Yes. 2 weeks or so should be enough time to allow for the reaction phase to be complete & residual Ca/Mg to become more readily available from the outset .

Q. During those 2 weeks, do I need to keep turning it and moistening it? No

Q. Can I go ahead and fill my 3-gal. containers, stack them 3-high, and cover the top one to prevent moisture loss during the waiting period? Something like that would be preferred.

Q. The perlite I use has a large amount of powder even though it is called coarse. Do I need to sift it to get rid of the powder? Not unless it REALLY has a lot - then, the reason wouldn't be because of issues with particle size - it would be because you had to use larger volumes to achieve adequate drainage & larger volumes bring with it the possibility of Fl toxicity for some plants that are fluoride intolerant.

Q. What about earthworm castings (EWC)? I think 10% is a good rule of thumb for the total volume of fine particles. I try to limit peat use to about 10-15% of soil volume & just stay away from those things that rob aeration & promote water retention beyond a minimal perched water table. If you start adding 10% play sand, 10% worm castings, 10% compost, 10% peat, 10% topsoil, 10% vermiculite to a soil, before long you'll be growing in something close to a pudding-like consistency.

Q. Do you drench the mix with fertilized water before putting in containers? No - especially if you incorporate a CRF. It will have lots of fertilizer on it's surface & the soil could already be high in solubles. If you added CRF, wait until you've watered and flushed the soil a couple of times. If you didn't use CRF, you can fertilize with a weak solution the first time you water after the initial planting irrigation.

Q. How much of the micronutrients should I add if I am going to be fertilizing with Foliage Pro 9-3-6, which has all the micronutrients in it? You won't need any additional supplementation as long as you lime.
Q. Just to make sure I understand, are you saying I don't need to use Foliage Pro 9-3-6 until after the initial watering right after planting even if I don't use a CRF? And no additional micronutrients? That's right - on both counts.

Q. Do I need to moisten the peat moss before mixing with the pine bark fines? It helps, yes.

Selections from Notes on Choosing a Fertilizer

A) Plant nutrients are dissolved in water
B) The lower the nutrient concentration, the easier it is for the plant to absorb water and the nutrients dissolved in the water - distilled water is easier for plants to absorb than tap water because there is nothing dissolved in distilled water
C) The higher the nutrient content, the more difficult it is for plants to absorb water and the nutrients dissolved in water
D) To maximize plant vitality, we should supply adequate amounts of all the essential nutrients w/o using concentrations so high that they impede water and nutrient uptake.

All that is in the "Fertilizer Thread" I posted a while back.

Q. Do you use the Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 exclusively throughout the life of the plant, or change to something else for the flowering/fruiting stage? I use lots of different fertilizers, but if I had to choose only one, it would likely be the FP 9-3-6. It really simplifies things. There are very few plants that won't respond very favorably to this fertilizer. I use fast soils that drain freely & I fertilize at EVERY watering, and it works extremely well.

If you are using a soil that allows you to water freely at every watering, you cannot go wrong by watering weakly weekly, and you can water at 1/8 the recommended dose at every watering if you wish with chemical fertilizers.

Q. What about the "Bloom Booster" fertilizers? To induce more prolific flowering, a reduced N supply will have more and better effect than the high P bloom formulas. When N is reduced, it slows vegetative growth without reducing photosynthesis. Since vegetative growth is limited by a lack of N, and the photosynthetic machinery continues to turn out food, it leaves an expendable surplus for the plant to spend on flowers and fruit. There are no plants I know of that use anywhere near the amount of P as they do N (1/6 is the norm). It makes no sense to me to have more P available than N unless you are targeting a VERY specific growth pattern; and then the P would still be applied in a reasonable ratio to K.

Somewhere along the way, we curiously began to look at fertilizers as miraculous assemblages of growth drugs, and started interpreting the restorative effect (to normal growth) fertilizers have as stimulation beyond what a normal growth rate would be if all nutrients were adequately present in soils. It�s no small wonder that we come away with the idea that there are �miracle concoctions� out there and often end up placing more hope than is reasonable in them.

What I'm pointing out is that fertilizers really should not be looked at as something that will make your plant grow abnormally well - beyond its genetic potential . . . Fertilizers do not/can not stimulate super growth, nor are they designed to. All they can do is correct nutritional deficiencies so plants can grow normally.

Q. Should I use organic ferts or chemical ferts in containers? Organic fertilizers do work to varying degrees in containers, but I would have to say that delivery of the nutrients can be very erratic and unreliable. The reason is that nutrient delivery depends on the organic molecules being broken down in the gut of micro-organisms, and micro-organism populations are boom/bust, varying widely in container culture.

Some of the things affecting the populations are container soil pH, moisture levels, nutrient levels, soil composition, compaction/aeration levels ..... Of particular importance is soil temperatures. When container temperatures rise too high, microbial populations diminish. Temps much under 55* will slow soil biotic activity substantially, reducing or halting delivery of nutrients.

I do include various formulations of fish emulsion in my nutrient program at certain times of the year, but I never rely on them, choosing chemical fertilizers instead. Chemical fertilizers are always immediately available for plant uptake & the results of your applications are much easier to quantify.

Q. Should I feed the plants every time I water? In a word, yes. I want to keep this simple, so I�ll just say that the best water absorption occurs when the level of solutes in soil water is lowest, and in the presence of good amounts of oxygen. Our job, because you will not find a sufficient supply of nutrients in a container soil, is to provide a solution of dissolved nutrients that affords the plant a supply in the adequate to luxury range, yet still makes it easy for the plant to take up enough water to be well-hydrated and free of drought stress. All we need to do is supply nutrients in approximately the same ratio as plants use them, and in adequate amounts to keep them in the adequate to luxury range at all times. Remember that we can maximize water uptake by keeping the concentrations of solutes low, so a continual supply of a weak solution is best. Nutrients don�t just suddenly appear in large quantities in nature, so the low and continual dose method most closely mimics the nutritional supply Mother Nature offers. If you decide to adopt a "fertilize every time you water" approach, most liquid fertilizers can be applied at � to 1 tsp per gallon for best results.

The system is rather self regulating if fertilizer is applied in low concentrations each time you water, even with houseplants in winter. As the plant�s growth slows, so does its need for both water and nutrients. Larger plants and plants that are growing robustly will need more water and nutrients, so linking nutrient supply to the water supply is a win/win situation all around.

You can tell you've watered too much (or too little - the response is the same - a drought response) when leaves start to turn yellow or you begin to see nutritional deficiencies created by poor root metabolism (usually N and Ca are first evident). You can prevent overwatering by A) testing the soil deep in the container with a wood dowel ... wet & cool - do not water, dry - water. B) feeling the wick & only watering when it's dry C) feel the soil at the drain hole & only water when it feels dry there.

Soils feel dry to our touch when they still have 40-45% moisture content. Plants, however, can still extract water from soils until they dry down to about 25-30%, so there is still around a 15% cush in that plants can still absorb considerable moisture after soils first feel dry to us.

Q. When you water/fertilize, do you give it enough that 10% leaches out the bottom each time? Yes, I try to do that at every watering. Remember that as salts accumulate, both water and nutrient uptake is made more difficult and finally impaired or made impossible in severe cases. Your soils should always allow you to water so that at least 10-15% of the total volume of water applied passes through the soil and out the drain hole to be discarded. This flushes the soil and carries accumulating solutes out the drain hole. In addition, each thorough watering forces stale gases from the soil. CO2 accumulation in heavy soils is very detrimental to root health, but you usually can't apply water in volume enough to force these gases from the soil. Open soils allow free gas exchange at all times.

Q. Should I elevate my pots? The container will not drain the same % of water if it's sitting in a puddle, but the % won't be particularly significant. What will be significant is: if water (in a puddle) is able to make contact with the soil in the container through surface tension and/or capillarity, it will "feed" and prolong the saturated conditions of any PWT that might be in the container. However, if water can soak in or if it will flow away from the containers, there's no advantage to elevating when you're not using a wick.

Q. I like a pH of about 5.7. Is that about right? That's a good number, but you won't have any way of maintaining it in your soil w/o some sophisticated equipment. I never concern myself with media pH. That doesn't mean you should ignore water pH, though. It (water pH) affects the solubility of fertilizers; and generally speaking, the higher the water pH, the lower the degree of nutrient solubility.

Q. How do you repot? Some plants do not take to root-pruning well (palms, eg), but the vast majority of them REALLY appreciate the rejuvenational properties of major root work. I'm not at all delicate in my treatment of rootage when it comes time to repot (completely different from potting-up). Usually I chop or saw the bottom 1/2-2/3 of the root mass off, bare-root the plant, stick it back in the same pot with ALL fresh soil, use a chopstick to move soil into all the spaces/pockets between roots, water/fertilize well & put in the shade for a week to recover. I should mention that this procedure is most effective on plants with woody roots, which most quickly grow to be inefficient as they lignify, thicken, and fill the pot. Those plants with extremely fibrous root systems are easier to care for. For those, I usually saw off the bottom 1/2 - 2/3 of the roots, work a chopstick through the remaining mat of roots, removing a fair amount of soil, prune around the perimeter & repot in fresh, well-aerated soil.

I find that time after time, plants treated in this fashion sulk for a week or two and then put on a huge growth spurt (when repotted in spring or summer). Growth INVARIABLY surpasses what it would have been if the plant was allowed to languish in it's old, root-bound haunts. Potting up is a temporary way to rejuvenate a plant, but if you look ate a long-term graph of plants continually potted-up, you will see continual decline with little spurts of improved vitality at potting-up time. This stress/strain on plants that are potted-up only, eventually takes its toll & plants succumb. There is no reason most houseplants shouldn't live for years and years, yet we often content ourselves with the 'revolving door replacement' of our plants when just a little attention to detail would allow us to call the same plant our friend - often for the rest of our lives if we prefer.

Q. Is there any rule of thumb as to how often to root prune? I'm going to answer as if you included 'repotting' in your question. There is no hard, fast rule here. Some of you grow plants strictly for the blooms, and some plants produce more abundant blooms in containers when they are stressed in some manner. Often, that stress is in the form of keeping them root-bound. I'll talk about maintaining a plant's vitality & let you work out how you want to handle the degree of stress you wish to subject them to, in order to achieve your goals. Before I go on, I'd like to say that I use stress techniques too, to achieve a compact, full plant, and to slow growth of a particularly attractive plant - to KEEP it attractive. ;o) The stress of growing a plant tight can be useful to a degree, but at some point, there will be diminishing returns.

When you need to repot to correct declining vitality:

1) When the soil has collapsed/compacted, or was too water-retentive from the time you last potted-up or repotted. You can identify this condition by soil that remains wet for more than a few days, or by soil that won't take water well. If you water a plant and the soil just sits on top of the soil w/o soaking in, the soil has collapsed/compacted. There is one proviso though: you must be sure that the soil is wet before you assess this condition. Soils often become hydrophobic (water repellent) and difficult to rewet, especially when using liquid organic fertilizers like fish/seaweed emulsions. Make sure this effect is not what you're witnessing by saturating the soil thoroughly & then assessing how fast the water moves downward through the soil. The soils I grow in are extremely fast and water disappears into the mix as soon as it's applied. If it takes more than 30 seconds for a large volume of water to disappear from the surface of the soil, you are almost certainly compromising potential vitality.

I'll talk about the potential vitality for just a sec. Plants will grow best in a damp soil with NO perched water. That is NO saturated layer of water at the bottom of the pot. Roots begin to die a very short time after being subjected to anaerobic conditions. They regenerate again as soon as air returns to the soil. This cyclic death/regeneration of roots steals valuable energy from the plant that might well have been employed to increase o/a biomass, and/or produce flowers and fruit. This is the loss of potential vitality I refer to.

2) When the plant is growing under tight conditions and has stopped extending, it is under strain, which will eventually lead to its death. "Plants must grow to live. Any plant that is not growing is dying." Dr. Alex Shigo Unless there are nutritional issues, plants that have stopped extending and show no growth when they should be coming into a period of robust growth usually need repotting. You can usually confirm your suspicions/diagnosis by looking for rootage "crawling" over the soil surface and/or growing out of the drain hole, or by lifting the plant from its pot & examining the root mass for encircling roots - especially fat roots at the container's edge. You'll be much less apt to find these types of roots encircling inner container perimeter in well-aerated soils because the roots find the entire soil mass hospitable. Roots are opportunistic and will be found in great abundance at the outside edge of the soil mass in plantings with poor drainage & soggy soil conditions - they're there looking for air.

3) When the soil is so compacted & water retentive that you must water in sips and cannot fully flush the soil at each watering for fear of creating conditions that will cause root rot. This isn't to say you MUST flush the soil at every watering, but the soil should drain well enough to ALLOW you to water this way whenever you prefer. This type of soil offers you the most protection against over-watering and you would really have to work hard at over-fertilizing in this type of soil. It will allow you to fertilize with a weak solution at every watering - even in winter if you prefer.

Incidentally, I reject the frequent anecdotal evidence that keeping N in soils at adequacy levels throughout the winter "forces" growth or "forces weak growth". Plants take what they need and leave the rest. While there could easily be the toxicity issues associated with too much fertilizer in soils due to a combination of inappropriate watering practices, inappropriate fertilizing practices, and an inappropriate soil, it's neither N toxicity NOR the presence of adequate N in soils that causes weak growth, it's low light levels.

Q. Is there any rule of thumb as to how often to remove and replace the old soil? Yes - every time you repot.

As always, I hope that those who read what I say about soils will ultimately take with them the idea that the soil is the foundation of every container planting & has effects that reach far beyond the obvious, but there is a snatch of lyrics from an old 70's song that might be appropriate: "... just take what you need and leave the rest ..." ;o)


clipped on: 09.12.2013 at 11:43 am    last updated on: 09.12.2013 at 11:43 am

Fertilizing Roses in Pots

posted by: landperson on 08.07.2011 at 11:38 am in Antique Roses Forum

Okay, okay, I probably always will be confused about something, and even more probably I'll continue to be a bit confused about this thing, to me some more about fertilizing when roses are in pots.

This year I have accumulated several HT's and Floribundas and I am keeping them all in 2.5 and 5 gallon pots for a while. I am interested in seeing them put on some good size and knowing better what they are really going to look like before putting them into the ground. So, I'm wondering about balancing the fertilizing for them....

It seems to me that fertilizing roses in pots is a totally different ball game than fertilizing roses in the ground where they can seek out what they need and stretch farther for small bits that might be missing right close to them. Also their need for more water must mean they need more constant replenishing.....right?

So, how do you approach your potted roses that differs from how you approach your in-ground roses?

And, yes, in spite of all of my previous protestations to the contrary, I will even use Miracle Gro if you make an argument on its behalf.....



salt exchange
clipped on: 08.15.2013 at 12:27 am    last updated on: 08.15.2013 at 12:27 am


posted by: JessicaBe on 05.15.2012 at 09:21 pm in Antique Roses Forum

I was wondering if a sport of a rose is a mutation then how do you keep that mutation growing.. Do you take a cutting from that stalk...



clipped on: 07.26.2013 at 10:59 pm    last updated on: 07.26.2013 at 10:59 pm

How do I prepare soil for drought tolerant woodsy garden?

posted by: anise-hyssop on 06.19.2013 at 07:33 pm in Northwestern Gardening Forum

In my new Seattle home, there is an area that has been separated from the rest of the yard (by a concrete wall) which I'd like to enhance.
It has 3 doug firs, sword and maidenhair ferns, some rhodies, lilacs, mountain ash, a southern magnolia, weigelia, ribes, a couple mystery plants, and absolutely no ground cover.
There are 2-3 inches of bark mulch mixed with needles, and beneath that is what appears to be a low humus grayish sandy loam. With lots of roots in it. All the plants there seem to be healthy.
What is the best way to amend and prepare this soil before planting ground covers? I'm going for a partial to deep shade, draught tolerant garden with a walk in the woods feel.
P.S. I'm open to plant suggestions too! So far, epimedium is sounding good, and oxalis.
Thank you!


clipped on: 06.27.2013 at 01:40 am    last updated on: 06.27.2013 at 01:40 am

Pruning Hybrid Perpetuals...What do YOU do?

posted by: cincy_city_garden on 12.10.2008 at 08:24 am in Antique Roses Forum

This past Spring I planted my first hybrid perpetuals, Ardoisee de Lyon being one of them. I planted her as a wee band and she's now a jolly green octopus with arching canes about 6 feet. I've staked a couple because the wind was whipping them about and loosening the roots. I've held off on pruning it because I had the impression you should just let new roses get established.

My question: Can I prune these canes now, or should I wait until Spring? Also, how long? In the info I've found, it says the HPs need hard pruning. What do you all think of pruning the canes down to 3ft or so?

How do all of you prune your HPs?




ideas for pruning and pegging hps
clipped on: 05.23.2013 at 07:39 pm    last updated on: 05.23.2013 at 07:39 pm

Rose Pillar construction details

posted by: isabella__ma on 01.26.2008 at 07:38 am in Roses Forum

Hi, new to the rose forum. I have searched for rose pillars, but the old posts were gone. I have found some great references Gertrude J. on pillars, but no real details on their construction.

I finally found a great rose that thrives in my light shade garden (Zephrine D.), and now I need a structure for it to climb on. Now it's just floundering happily on the ground, but it needs a support for it to be shown to its best.

Would a 4X4 PT 12-foot post be adequate support or would additional footholds need to be added? Does anyone have any details to share?



clipped on: 04.29.2013 at 09:24 pm    last updated on: 04.29.2013 at 09:24 pm

New & Improved Calcium for Botrytis Thread

posted by: michaelg on 09.12.2007 at 12:30 pm in Roses Forum

The other thread has enough mistakes and false starts to get Thomas Aquinas all confused, so let's start over.

--There is ample scientific evidence that getting extra calcium into rosebuds reduces botrytis flower blight in cut roses by 2/3 to 4/5 and increases vase life by 1/3. Only greenhouse hybrid teas were studied, but the findings should have some pertinence for gardeners.

--Botrytis causes balling and rotting of flowers, red-spotting and brown rotten spots on petals. It also causes black cankers and dieback of green canes and gray mold on cuttings. One study found that extra calcium as a spray reduced botrytis stem lesions on tomato. Calcium has also been shown to control several other fungal diseases, especially on fruit.

--Calcium strengthens resistance to fungal attack by strengthening cell walls. It slows the aging of flowers and reduces production of ethylene gas. In one study, the high pH of calcium sprays was thought to reduce germination of botrytis as well.

--In various studies, extra calcium (beyond normal nutrition) was successfully applied in three different ways: through vase water solutions, by spraying buds before harvest, and by feeding through the roots. However, in fertigation experiments, little extra calcium reached the flowers when normal levels of potassium and magnesium were in the nutrient solution. This finding suggests that applying calcium to the garden soil wouldn't accomplish the full benefit.

--Calcium is not very mobile in plants and would not be translocated much if any from leaves (which would be a "downward" movement from leaf to stem), so buds and their stems need to be treated directly or from the roots.

--Various calcium salts were effective in the experiments, including calcium sulfate, calcium nitrate, and calcium chloride.

--Calcium sulfate--
I have been experimenting with garden gypsum, which is impure calcium sulfate dihydrate. It is slow to dissolve and will not form a strong solution. However, there is a convenient way to get a solution. Put 1 tb. gypsum in 1 gallon of water (for example, a clean water jug) and let stand for a week at room temperature. This should produce a solution suitable for spraying (10 mM to 25 mM). Pour off the solution, leaving the sediment. It's a good idea to measure the sediment at least once to see how much is dissolving, which will vary according to the purity of the gypsum and the fineness of particles. I recovered 1 tsp of sediment after a week, so 2/3 of the gypsum dissolved. If you get more than 1 tsp sediment, start with 4 tsp/gal next time so that at least 2 tsp dissolve in a week. The pH of my solution, without the spreader, is neutral.

I have sprayed this solution three times on some stems with no mechanical problems or damage to petals or leaves. Once I combined it with sulfur fungicide. A surfactant (spreader) is needed. I used one tsp/gal of insecticidal soap or dish soap. The scientific studies used a non-ionic surfactant, Tween 20 (polysorbate 20).

One could spray the whole garden or just spritz buds and flowers with their stems, especially those intended for cutting or exhibition.

For vase solution, dilute the spray solution with 3 parts water.

We haven't had much botrytis weather since I took this up. I have been comparing recently-sprayed with unsprayed-for-17-days buds of the same susceptible varieties. I wet them one evening before a cool night, 5 days ago. Although there is no severe botrytis on the control group, most flowers have minor symptoms. The recently-sprayed flowers are almost entirely clean. These stems were sprayed 3 times so far at weekly intervals, but there is probably little benefit from the older sprayings. Sprayed flowers seem to last longer as cut flowers.

--Calcium chloride--
This is available as ice melting and dust control products. Agricultural grade calcium chloride would also be sold in farm stores in areas where apples and other fruits are grown. Calcium chloride has more calcium than the other forms. Although it is more phytotoxic, it is commonly used in agriculture because it dissolves easily.

I haven't tried spraying calcium chloride, but I have used an impure form sold as ice melter in vase solutions. It seems to extend vase life.

Vase solution: 1/8 teaspoon/quart. Do not combine with bleach.

Spray: I would try 1 or 1-1/2 tsp/gallon, with a spreader. Solutions of 3-4 tsp/gal are used on apples, but are said to be phytotoxic to apple foliage above 81 F. Calcium chloride is said to be compatible with fungicides normally used on apple.

--Calcium nitrate--
Commonly available as fertilizer, it dissolves readily with a small amount of sediment. A fully soluble or greenhouse grade is also produced, and this could be used if there are any mechanical problems with the fertilizer. I have not experimented with it.

Vase solution: probably 1/4 tsp/quart.

Spray solution: probably 2 tsp/gallon, with spreader, dissolved separately before adding to the tank without the sediment.


clipped on: 12.08.2012 at 02:46 am    last updated on: 12.08.2012 at 02:46 am

Work in progress in the Rose Walk

posted by: morrisnoor on 01.15.2009 at 09:04 am in Antique Roses Forum

Hello to everyone! :o)

I've already tried to put a reply on my old thread... but this apparently does not work :o(, the updated thread does not shows on the main page in the discussion Forum.

"...Hi guys, :o)
it's time to update this thread!
The work is still in progress, a few Roses are still waiting to be planted, and some architectural detail need to be completed, but in a few weeks all should be done!

Here's some pictures to share with you the work in progress :o)

I've started by the end of April, planting the very first roses, even if nothing of the hardscaping work was done :oP
There where still the giant cardoons that I was going to uproot by the end of June. (The blooming rose to the right is the Wichurana Rambler 'Paul Noel')

I keep on planting all the summer long, step by step, working very early in the morning (it was SO hot!!), and by the end of August nearly all the Roses have been in place - A bad picture prom the North side of the (shapeless) walk

By the end of September, with a more pleasant, fresh air and a couple of showers, we have started with the path, steps and a few other architectural details...

A picture with my father in the background, to better show proportions. The path seems to be larger than necessary, but this is to allow the roses and perennials to spread out in the path.

By October, two big Moroccan jars have been placed making a striking focal point at each end,
The North side (I've planted a Rosemary hedge behind it to hide the back structures and to make a "firm" background)

And the South side...

In November, some Roses where in flower ('Gloire de Rosomanes' and 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' in the foreground, with green flowered Chrysanthemums ( many weeds to pull out...!)

The last picture I've take, a few days ago. Note the chipped leaves of the Olive Tree to cover the path, and the steps leading to the small vegetable garden.

It looks so bare now...I'm waiting for Spring to come!!

Ciao! :o)

Here is a link that might be useful: I'm dreaming of a 'coup d'tat' in my garden... a Rose walk!


clipped on: 11.08.2012 at 12:36 pm    last updated on: 11.08.2012 at 12:36 pm

Bummer! Crown Gall!

posted by: annececilia on 05.03.2009 at 11:02 am in Roses Forum

I have never had a case of crown gall before, but there is no mistaking it when you see it, I guess. Out pruning this morning, I got around to a 9 year old plant of "Odense City" - a real beauty of a small shrub in a rich creamy yellow color. This rose has been crown hardy for me with some surviving cane here in zone 4 (in spite of it being rated to zone 6 on HMF.) Before I even made my first cut, I could see the galls all over at the base of the rose. Probably formed last season, the leaves at the base were so dense that I never noticed it. I just spent an hour digging it up and removing the soil around it. Man, was that hard work - and what a hole in the garden I have now!! I am really distressed and even though I took a lot of the soil I'm hesitant to put a new rose in that spot although the whole garden plan will be out of balance without one there. According to the research I've just done, the bacteria can remain in the soil for 10 years. Oh pooh and bother! :>(


description of crown gall and treatment
clipped on: 04.07.2012 at 12:57 am    last updated on: 04.07.2012 at 12:57 am

Rosa primula

posted by: gardenwheels on 03.12.2010 at 07:10 pm in Antique Roses Forum

I'll post this on the general rose forum. I encountered Rosa primula in an English garden -- magical scented leaves -- and would love to grow it here. Does anyone know a source? Thanks.


clipped on: 02.22.2012 at 11:51 am    last updated on: 02.22.2012 at 11:51 am

Not spray cecile brunner

posted by: harborrose on 07.08.2011 at 08:44 pm in Antique Roses Forum

This came from Ashdown Roses before Rogue Valley got their stock. It was finally planted last spring and has bloomed for the first time this year. It's not Spray Cecile Brunner, which is what it came tagged as ... the closest I can come is maybe Nastarana. The blooms are not fragrant, but the leaves are. It does have some prickles.

Do you think this is a noisette or have any other thoughts? Thanks for any help.


not spray cecile brunner

not spray cecile brunner

not spray cecile brunner

not spray cecile brunner


clipped on: 02.08.2012 at 12:55 am    last updated on: 02.08.2012 at 12:58 am

pruning Alba Semi-Plena and Tuscany Superb

posted by: suesette on 11.16.2010 at 01:07 am in Antique Roses Forum

We are in the middle of an amazing spring.After more than a decade of drought we had a wet, wet winter and I now know why my roses were smaller than I expected. They were thirsty!
In my ignorant enthusiasm I've overplanted. My back garden is a beautiful forest.
Alba Semi-Plena and Tuscany used to be neibours. Now they are intertwined in a wonderful, but unsustainable mound. I love the look of them together.
When they finish flowering, how hard can I cut them back? Chainmail might be required for the job. I would hate to overdo it and lose them.
I'm so glad it wasn't Alfalfa tea that they needed.
Our climate is probably warm temperate, but in Melbourne you never know what to expect.


clipped on: 10.30.2011 at 12:49 am    last updated on: 10.30.2011 at 12:49 am

Soil testing and amending

posted by: vettin on 07.23.2010 at 07:21 am in Antique Roses Forum

I am impressed with the amount of flowers in some photos - e.g. berndoodle top ten - in the gallery, and want to learn more about soil testing and amendments.

Is it possible to do a soil test yourself - how?

Also - once you have a soil test, is there a forumla of what amendments you should have and in what quantities? Do you just amend the planting hole?

Thank you!


clipped on: 10.12.2011 at 01:48 pm    last updated on: 10.12.2011 at 01:48 pm

Calcium spray vs. botrytis/balling update

posted by: michaelg on 10.08.2011 at 02:27 pm in Roses Forum

harborrose asked about this on another thread. I am linking one of the old threads, which has a lot of information. If anybody has tried this, please report. (I confess I sort of lost interest once I thought I had figured out how to do it.) However, October might be a good month to break out the gypsum, since we get blooms of exceptional quality that can be marred by botrytis in the cool temps.

Here is a link that might be useful: old thread


clipped on: 10.11.2011 at 12:38 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2011 at 12:38 pm

RE: espalier - not apple or pear (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: flora_uk on 10.28.2005 at 11:49 am in Edible Landscape Forum

Again I've never seen an espalier fig but I have seen fans. But they are always a bit haphazard looking due to the nature of fig growth.


espaliering fruit trees - see link below
clipped on: 08.28.2011 at 07:42 pm    last updated on: 08.28.2011 at 07:42 pm

RE: need help with 'Reine des Violettes' (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: roseseek on 07.02.2011 at 01:33 am in Antique Roses Forum

Christina, I appreciate your desire to garden organically. Unfortunately, organics require time to begin doing their thing. Time for bacteria to begin digesting them; time for compounds to begin to disolve and leach through the soil. Chelated iron isn't "organic", neither is aluminum sulfate. There honestly isn't anything in the Miracid that will hurt anything you have going with your organics. If anything, it will help to jump start your organics in their activity. Bacteria require nitrogen to begin the digestion process. If there isn't already a readily available source of it for them to utilize, they rob it from the plants, making the nitrogen deficiency worse until they begin releasing enough of it from their digestion of the organic material.

The organics digest down into their salt components, which is the only form that can absorb into the plant. Miracid, like all other inorganic fertilizers, already IS the salt form. As long as you have everything watered well so there is sufficient water in the plants for the salt - water ion exchange to take place without removing too much water from an already stressed plant (what we call "burning" the plant), adding a dose or two of Miracid won't hurt a thing and can actually help quite a bit.

Ironite is formulated for our southwestern alkaline soils and water and does a great job. Keep it off your clothes, concrete and house as it WILL permanently stain them with rust. Chelated iron is useful, but easier to burn things with unless you follow the directions very closely.

Ironite also has a low dose of nitrogen in it, something like 7% unless they've changed it since I last purchased it (quite some time ago!), so it might be the most "cure-all" of them for you to use. I honestly can't think of anything organic that will give you fast results.

I personally, combine organic and inorganic fertilizers so I feed the plants and bacteria NOW and provide goodies for the bacteria to begin working on and conditioning the soil with. I use Grow Power Plus, with humic acid and all purpose organic so the total isn't really heavy in any one nutrient. It makes a HUGE difference! Grow Power Plus is a 5-3-1 formula. The all purpose organic is 5-5-5 so eventually, the formulation is around 10-8-6, and it lasts a long time. The bacteria begin working right away without robbing nitrogen from the plants and continue feeding as they digest the organics long after the Grow Power Plus is used up. It works quite well in my heavily alkaline water and soil and the heat we have here in the San Fernando and Santa Clarita Valleys.

If you like the slate-gray-purple of Reine, also take a look at Blue for You. Very nice foliage, very good fragrance and some AMAZING colors! Tom's purples which have done best for me in my own and in clients' gardens are Midnight Blue and Ebb Tide. ET can be a little slow to get going but once it does, it is gorgeous! Kim
Good luck! Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Blue for You


Kim Rupert, explanation of miracid's ability to lower pH for iron uptake.
clipped on: 07.03.2011 at 04:44 pm    last updated on: 07.03.2011 at 04:46 pm

Hard pruning RdV?

posted by: seil on 06.21.2011 at 11:47 am in Antique Roses Forum

I have a lovely Reine des Violettes that has just finished blooming. She's HUGE! And now that she's stopped blooming she will begin to grow again. She's already broken two trellises and I have to do something to bring her back under control. I know that a lot of OGRs resent hard pruning and will not flower if cut back severely but since she's finished pretty much for this year (she only gives me a handful of blooms after the first flush) could I cut her way back now and not hurt my bloom for next year? She would have the rest of the summer to put on some more growth before going into winter. Will that be enough for her to bloom next spring?


clipped on: 06.21.2011 at 11:42 pm    last updated on: 06.21.2011 at 11:43 pm

Cut off all buds & blooms on young rose?

posted by: carol6ma_7ari on 06.14.2011 at 09:54 am in Antique Roses Forum

Someone told me that in order to direct the young plant's energy into the root strength, I should cut off all the flower buds and the 2-4 blooms that have burst forth, on my 2-year climbing antique roses. Is that right? It'd be a shame to not enjoy the sight and fragrance of my baby roses, after waiting 2 years. I read that the 3rd year, they "leap" and start growing taller. So far they are mostly 18" to 30" high. But they are all climbers: Alberic Barbier, r. alba semi-plena, Gardenia, Buff Beauty, Abraham Darby, r. moschata, Sombreuil, Crepuscule.



explanation by Kim Rupert on pushing growth of bands
clipped on: 06.17.2011 at 04:29 am    last updated on: 06.17.2011 at 04:29 am

When Roses Begin To Age

posted by: mendocino_rose on 01.05.2008 at 10:45 am in Roses Forum

I'm in the thick of pruning right now. My garden is twelve years old and many of the roses are beginning to age. I've cut off many a knarley old cane this winter. I'm wondering what your thoughts are in caring for older roses. My way is to get rid of the oldest crummiest canes and then feed well in the spring. Our soil has been tested and is supposedly high in magnesium so I hesitate to use Epsom Salts for basal breaks.


clipped on: 06.16.2011 at 05:14 am    last updated on: 06.16.2011 at 05:15 am

Bands transplanted into pots are just small roses (Follow-Up #28)

posted by: berndoodle on 03.15.2009 at 02:00 pm in Antique Roses Forum

We're talking about fertilizing roses propagated in bands, received by the gardener and transplanted into larger pots? And we're assuming they weren't fertilized when they were transplanted because it was winter? And we're assuming we're not in that spring kill zone with the possibility of late freezes with temps below 20℉ for long period of time? No one should keep a rose in a band. Fertilizing bands is for propagators. For the rest of us, we pot up.

Once potted up, assuming it isn't the rainy season, I definitely fertilize them! I'm not talking about using 45-0-0 lawn fertilizer or Miracle Grow at labeled rates. At this time of year, there is a direct relationship between shoot growth and root absorption of nutrients. The two are inter-connected and inter-related. Therefore I fertilize to make nutrients available for root uptake in response to the demands of top-growth (and vice versa). There is no way to "direct" a plant to grow roots. Restricting nutrient uptake by the roots will inevitably restrict top growth. Restricting top growth will also restrict root growth. A host of scientific data over the past 25 years supports these facts.

Timing of the spring application depends on the weather and on growth. Once the majority of roses in the garden are showing a couple of inches of new growth, I fertilize. We've had temps down to the low 30's for the past two weeks, but the days are longer, the sun the stronger, and the roses know it. They are all steadily leafing out. Sometimes roses in the ground will show chlorosis at this time of year while they are leafing out. It's a problem of the nitrogen in the soil not being available to the roots because the soil is still very cold. But it will warm very soon, and when it does, the nitrogen cycle will be primed.

Whether you go organic or chemical is your choice. Let me be clear: it is entirely possible to pollute the groundwater with organic fertilizers and manure. Anything we apply must be used intelligently. Those of us who garden in areas of low rainfall can fertilizing wisely in ways that will not lead to an algae bloom off the coast. In my garden, roses in pots of all sizes receive a complete fertilizer. I used the more expensive coated fertilizers for several years, but I'm no longer a fan because I don't trust the release rates. Now I only use it in pots when I pot up bareroots in the winter. Most coated ferts require soil temperatures of 70℉ to start releasing nitrogen, so they cannot burn bareroots in the winter or leach out nitrogen.

So I give my potted roses an early season water soluble dose. For the sake of convenience with too many roses in pots, I use a big box store house brand of granular that is about 12-4-8 at the rate of a teaspoon to a 1 gallon pot, with a pinch of calcium nitrate in each pot. That balances amonium and nitrate nitrogen. Using pre-dissolved extra dilute fish emulsion or extra weak Miracle Grow is excellent but time-consuming if you have a lot of roses. We will have very little rainfall from now until November. The ferts will remain in the soil and will only be leached if I over-water.

I fertilize small roses regularly during the first year. IMO withholding nitrogen fertilizer from young plants is unsound horticulture. Manures and organics are fertilizers. Think about this: do you want to buy a 3 gallon potted rose from a nursery that hasn't fertilized that rose for a year?

In the late summer, with shortening days, there is much more root growth than top growth. From mid-August on, roses propagated in bands will outgrow pots in 3 to 5 weeks but with little top growth. This is the time to be stingy with nitrogen fertilizer, as the organics in a good potting soil are probably more than sufficient. I use very dilute liquid ferts after the plant is settled into the pot.

Just one more gardener's experience in one more climate.


clipped on: 06.16.2011 at 04:54 am    last updated on: 06.16.2011 at 04:55 am

Its all about pruning and training of those lanky roses

posted by: cupshaped_roses on 02.01.2008 at 01:12 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Many people like the roses Gertrude Jekyll (Austin) And Louise Odier (Bourbon). Both are really good roses (If sprayed! Disease resistance is poor) and are very adaptable to different styles of pruning and training. Both can be grown as bush roses (3-5 feet tall and wide or low climbers (About 7-8 feet tall).

I will illustrate how different pruning and training of these roses makes them perform better and how you can choose to grow them:

Loise Odier:

With hard pruning LO can be grown as 3-4 feet tall bush (Grown as 5-6 feet tall bush LO usually begins to need some support like a rose-stake). I cut the basals to 2-3 feet after they have flowered. Those canes will make new laterals (2-3 feet and flower later in the fall). In the spring I prune these laterals to 2-6 inches so I get a rounded shape to the bush.

Louise Odier bush 3. season spring flush:


Louise Odier bush 3. season fall flush (Notice I pruned the bush hard after the spring flush and that the rose is blooming on the new laterals, and have shot some long basals that I will prune to 2-3 feet next spring)


The hard pruning reduces the size of the bush to the size and shape of the bush I want. I also get more laterals and flowers. Also it does not become leggy and ugly ... In 5 years it will become an awesome rosebush! Avoid pruning all the canes to the same length ; the bush will look like a "broom-stick". Pruning the canes in length from 1-3 feet will make the bush produce roses from top to bottom and not become a leggy and unproductive ...a jolly green giant. those who grow this rose knows it sometimes throws long 6-8 feet long canes ... If I see one of those I prune it to about 2-3 feet in august not allowing it to flower. It will produce about 3 new long laterals in the fall ...these will be pruned in the spring and bloom.

But those long canes also means Louise Odier can be grown as a low climber or pillar rose (Against fences or walls in colder zones 6 and lower or even on arches in warmer zones 6 and higher).

Instead of pruning the long basals I train them by bending and twisting them in -S-shapes to a wall support. The bending horizontal parts will shoot many flowering laterals! In the Spring I prune most of these to about 3 bud-eyes length. :

Louise Odier as a low climber against a wall in the spring (So you can see how I trained the canes):


Same rose early summer ( After flowering I prune back the laterals to 5 bud-eyes, that will shoot new laterals in the fall and bloom. Some of the laterals will be 3-4 feet I bend these in S-shaped and tie them to the support or some of the older canes to build up a dense framework):


Louise Odier could also be trained in a fan shape along a fence, by training the long basals horizontally. A rose that can be adapted to many different spaces, by pruning and training it differently.

Gertrude Jekyll ...:SIGH: ... people either hate it or love it. I understand why!! No other rose can become lanky/leggy and ugly if not pruned hard or trained correctly!

Grown as a bush I would not allow it to grow taller than 4-5 feet! It will become leggy and ugly and not produce as many flowers. Also: If not pruned hard after the impressive spring flush, repeat will be very poor!. In my experience it takes about 3 seasons before the rose really begin repeating reliably. Many impatient rose growers (Yes they do exist) have given up on the rose before that!

I have a line of GJs along the path to one of my doors (3. season spring flush) (The fragrance is unbelievable!!!!!!!):


If people want to grow the rose as a bush and grow it well, hard pruning is very important ...both in the spring and after the first flush! If I want to grow it as a bush I prune the canes to 1-3 feet and the laterals to 1-3 bud-eyes in the spring. After the first flush I prune it hard again!
Some of the new basals will flower and I prune these hard too after they have flowered! If a 5-6 foot basal was pruned to 2-3 feet me the new laterals will have reached 5 feet before fall! This makes GJ a very awkward grower! So if you want to grow it well as a bush and you want it to repeat
hard pruning is essential! (same thing with Comte De Chambord/Mme Boll one of the parents to GJ. By growing it well I mean the amount of flowers produces ... A well grown specimen is sight for sore eyes ... well-grown meaning correctly pruned or trained! How often have you not seen leggy ugly GJs? With correct pruning a 4+ season old GJ is an amazing rose! Correctly pruned the amount of flowers is stunning:

GJ as a bush (Scan from DA handbook of roses):


The long basals and laterals produced also makes growing it shaped as fan, by training the long basals and laterals horizontally a very good option!:

GJ trained fan shaped along a fence:(Scan from DA handbook of roses):


I remember seeing Linda/Erasmus growing her old (Sadly virused) GJ by training all the canes horizontally with remarkably good results!

GJ Jekyll can also be grown as a pillar rose or supported by cylindrical or various other supports, even on arches in zones 6 and higher. The secret is good training: bend or train as many as the basals and long laterals as horizontally as possible. Twirl and twist the flexible (and very, very thorny canes!!!) and secure them by tying the canes to the support or older canes. Grown as low climbers Gjs can be extraordinary beautiful and productive! :

GJ as low climber (Scan from DA handbook of roses):


Just allowing them to grow upright, not allowing the time needed to produce the framework of canes that produces flowers, will only give ugly results.

So if more people had the patience and just knew how to prune and train these roses correctly, I bet they would be more valued for what they can become. I love these roses!


clipped on: 06.16.2011 at 04:33 am    last updated on: 06.16.2011 at 04:33 am

Pat on the Back. . . . Or Kick in the Pants?

posted by: onederw on 06.07.2011 at 10:06 am in Antique Roses Forum

aka, What is your approach to fertilizing your roses?
I realize it's never absolute, but do you tend to feed your roses before they bloom (Kick in the Pants), or after (Pat on the Back)?
I'm more of a Pants Kicker myself. Generally alfalfa meal or Mills Mix. Both have given good results and some vigorous new growth. Greedy gardener that I am, however, I'm considering the application of Epsom salts to some otherwise healthy roses (Yes, I'm talking to you, Memorial Day, and you, Sharifa Asma, and you, Lady Emma Hamilton) to see if I can kickstart some new basal canes on them.



fertilize with high n during first flush
clipped on: 06.10.2011 at 05:36 pm    last updated on: 06.10.2011 at 05:37 pm

Can you push teas?

posted by: greybird on 05.18.2011 at 09:30 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Teas are borderline in my zone 7. I have from now until November to get some size on my newly planteds before the cold hits. Any advice for pushing growth on teas?


growing teas - pushing growth so they get large enough to withstand winters better
clipped on: 05.25.2011 at 11:28 pm    last updated on: 05.25.2011 at 11:29 pm

Climbing Hybrid Teas et al. as shrubs?

posted by: melissa_thefarm on 04.03.2011 at 03:50 am in Antique Roses Forum

I have a number of roses commonly grown as climbers, with nothing for them to climb on--no time to train them, either--and was wondering if I might be able to grow them as shrubs, albeit of a loose and lanky habit. I have 'Cl. Mme. Caroline Testout', 'Blairii No. 2', and a mystery rose, evidently an old climbing Hybrid Tea, that may be 'Mme. Abel Chatenay'. I'm trying to grow 'Cl. Etoile de Hollande' this way and so far it looks promising. Also I bought 'Alister Stella Gray' recently, and would love to be able to keep it as a shrub. What do you all think? Can it be done?


advice on making shrubs of climbers
clipped on: 05.25.2011 at 01:10 am    last updated on: 05.25.2011 at 01:10 am

RE: pruning Alba Semi-Plena and Tuscany Superb (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: olga_6b on 11.16.2010 at 05:55 am in Antique Roses Forum

I only cut old canes and twiggy growth on Alba Semiplena allowing it to grow into tree shape. This way when grown it will not compete with Tuscuny. They will be on different "floors", Tuscuny as ubderplanting for Semiplena.
I do Tuscuny pruning in winter, before the bloom, and than add some less radical haircut after the bloom. In winter I can see what I am doing. No leaves in winter means I can see skeleton and remove branches that are old and non`productive, as well as cut dead, twiggy and just extra canes, because sometimes gallicas tend to overcrowd their canes in the center. I also cut approx 1/3-1/2 off from each cane. Gallicas gloom a lot with this prunning, instead of having blooms only at the ends of long canes they develop side branches with blooms, so youget more blooms with winter pruning in my experience.


Olga's/Trospero's notes on pruning Alba SP
clipped on: 05.24.2011 at 11:37 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2011 at 11:38 pm

Roses pruned to become self supporting - look like trees?

posted by: vettin on 09.14.2010 at 05:48 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Wondering which roses you can do this with. I saw a photo on here of sombreuil and a new dawn. Pls share photos!
Thank you!


OLGA'S roses; comments on pruning
clipped on: 05.24.2011 at 11:19 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2011 at 11:19 pm

Questions About Roses, Obelisks and Clematis

posted by: wanttogarden on 10.18.2007 at 02:23 pm in Roses Forum

I live in Nor Cal in SF Bay Area near San Jose. I have 2 Falstaffs, one Crown Princess Margarete and one Abe Darby which I like to grow as climbers on 3 obelisks. My husband and I decided to build them ourselves.

1. Should I make them 8' tall or shorter?

2. What color should I paint them?

3. Recommendation for Clematis ( name, color, size,) I should grow on these obelisks?

Thank you for any advice.


clipped on: 05.08.2011 at 09:52 pm    last updated on: 05.08.2011 at 09:53 pm