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Our finished kitchen

posted by: drjay71 on 02.17.2010 at 12:00 pm in Kitchens Forum

Sorry it has been a while since I have posted. Been with moving and settling in. Well, here are some pictures of our finished kitchen. Thanks to all of you guys that were so helpful to us during construction.









clipped on: 02.18.2010 at 07:10 am    last updated on: 02.18.2010 at 07:10 am

99% finished

posted by: love2decorate on 11.26.2008 at 03:01 pm in Kitchens Forum

Just have the upper glass doors and knobs to get and then it's finished!!



clipped on: 11.26.2008 at 06:11 pm    last updated on: 11.26.2008 at 06:11 pm

RE: fire & ice backsplash (Follow-Up #31)

posted by: jodi_in_so_calif on 11.25.2008 at 08:40 pm in Kitchens Forum

I finally got the name and color of the grout used with our Fire & Ice: Custom Building Products, color: Quartz



clipped on: 11.26.2008 at 09:14 am    last updated on: 11.26.2008 at 09:14 am

RE: Over the range microwaves (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: caryscott on 11.19.2008 at 08:04 am in Kitchens Forum

My Mom selected this one from Panasonic which has a max 420cfm on the recommendation of a friend and it gets a couple of nods in the linked thread. Quiet? Don't know yet, it isn't hooked up.




Here is a link that might be useful: discussion of OTR micros


clipped on: 11.19.2008 at 12:29 pm    last updated on: 11.19.2008 at 12:29 pm

Berryberry's Finished Kitchen

posted by: berryberry on 07.11.2008 at 07:09 pm in Kitchens Forum

OK, as promised here are the details and lots of photo's

BerryBerrys Kitchen:

Our goal was to re-do our 17 year old kitchen, original to the house. The old cabinets were standard builder grade and while looking good on the outside, were showing signs of wear (broken drawer guides, etc) internally. Plus the color scheme was, ummm, just a tad outdated LOL.

We planned 90% of the kitchen ourselves, from doing research ahead of time, looking at magazines, and using the garden web and other internet resources. We met with 3 different cabinet reps / KDs to obtain quotes from three different cabinet lines Durasupreme, Shiloh, and Kahles (a regional brand based a few hours away from us on PA). We obtained a few different ideas from the various KDs we met with and incorporated them into our vision. Our vision was further defined seeing a display of Omega cabinets at the one showroom which also sold the Shiloh line. This display is what we used in helping us design our plan and look.

In looking at cabinetry, we were impressed with the Shiloh brands construction but they had no door styles, finishes that would give us the look we really wanted to achieve. Durasupreme was the least inexpensive of the group but also the least flexible (ie they couldnt do the special microwave cabinet we wanted to do). It was only by a fluke we came across Kahles. Even though they are based in Pennsylvania, we had never heard of them. But one day, when out looking at appliances, one showroom we stopped at had full type kitchen displays. Some of the cabinets we saw were fantastic better quality than the Omega custom line we saw at the Shiloh dealer and we thought they had to be full custom cabinetry. We asked one of the appliance sales people about the cabinets and he said a couple local contractors installed all the cabinets at their facility. We showed him the couple cabinets we liked and he told us they were all installed by a man named Dale Conrad. He gave us his number and we contacted him

We found out the cabinets were made by a company called Kahles which sells regionally in the eastern part of the US. They are a family run operation and do things the old fashioned way as the quality of their cabinets can attest to (for instance note the full plywood TOPS on the base cabinets). They are based in northwest PA pretty much in the middle of nowhere. As you can see from the website, marketing is not their strong suit but making top quality cabinets is. They happened to offer styles and finishes that we were looking for and help us complete our vision. Furthermore, we found Dale to be a forthright man to work with. And while his initial quote came in a lot higher than the other two, we worked together, thru some minor design changes, as well as advantageous scheduling to help him fill some down time to come up with a price that was competitive with the others we had received. Dale told us the job would take about 2 weeks (except waiting for the granite to be fabricated) and he was spot on. His crew was here 9 days and completed 95% of the kitchen, hooked up our old sink / faucet as a temporary sink and then we waited about 3 weeks while the granite was being fabricated. Dales crew was back the day of the granite installation to disconnect the temporary sink and faucet, install the new ones after the granite went in and finish up some minor details. Two weeks of work exactly with no issues. The only issue we did encounter was with our DIY backsplash. The tile store initially ordered the wrong material so that delayed me installing it for about 10 days until they had the correct material shipped. Since we didnt order the tile until the granite was in, this pushed the final completion back slightly. .

Here are the details of our final product:

Cabinets Kahles ( Main cabinets are cherry wood cabinets, Laporte Full Overlay w/M-bead raised panels in a toffee stain. Accent cabinets are paint grade maple, Chadds Ford door in a beaded inset style with steeple hinges painted antique white with brown glaze. All drawers are 5 piece wood, matching cherry wood light rails under the upper cabinets, maple veneer interiors, plywood boxes, wood shelves, dovetail drawer boxes, wainscot panels on all end panels where applicable, full extension soft close drawers, fluting at sink and fluted spindles at range, two different size of crown molding to match depending on height of upper cabinets.
Countertop: Vyara Juparana Granite purchased from Our fabricators did a fabulous job and are located in the center of PA, several hours away but our contractor uses them because of their high quality work
Backsplash is from Jeffrey Court Fire and Ice I installed this myself thanks to the advice from Bill V. Like Jodi in SoCal, I substituted some #39 Burnt Unber glass for some of the lighter glass tiles. I purchased the #39 Burnt Umber glass from Morena Tile (they shipped it to me from CA) Fire and Ice runs about $17.60 a sq foot plus shipping for me.
Our handles were amazingly inexpensive finds. On the cherry cabinets we have Weathered Nickel Country French Knobs and Pulls ($1.30 and $1.79 each respectively from The pulls on the painted cabinets are Liberty oil rubbed bronze pulls bought in bulk from $14 for 25 pulls
Our sink is the Blanco Silgranit sink in Biscuit (Blanco Diamond 1 bowl under mounted to be specific)
Danze faucet; Antioch in oil rubbed bronze with basket strainer and disposer trim from Westbrass in Victorian Bronze to match the faucet color
Floors are from Daltile Terra Antica Oro with earth color grouting
Bluestar Range: 36" RNB range with 22,000 BTU burners purchased from the best appliance store in Pittsburgh,
Independent hood we purchased a 42" SS Professional Incline hood also from who matched the price of an internet vendor
Miele dishwasher (Miele Diamante, fully integrated stainless steel).
Panasonic microwave: purchased from for $129.99
Samsung French Door refrigerator from Lowes (a few months before we started the remodel) for about $1440
Waste King Legend 9980 3 bolt 1hp, lifetime guarantee model online for $179.99 from Ira Woods online.;jsessionid=0a0106431f43683122f07db340c7a2ccfc1f84ba003a.e3eSc3eMbxuPe34Pa38Ta38Obhz0?sc=2&category=72961
Switchplates, outlets and dimmers are a mixture of Lutron, Cooper and Leviton found either online at a couple different stores (dimmers and the 3 outlet switchplate) or at Lowes. Light almond to match the painted walls, grey to match the backsplash area.
Our fan is the Harbor Breeze Paradiso model
Our island pendant is Kichler Lighting 2955NI in a brushed Nickel Finish
Walls are painted with Benjamin Moore Aura paint in AF-90 Harmony color (we DIY the painting). purchased from our local Benjamin Moore dealer
Woodwork is painted with Cabinet Coat paint custom tinted to match the painted cabinets purchased from our local Cabinet Coat dealer

A few Old Kitchen Pics - more can be seen at

and now the NEW PICS (more can be seen at )


Hardware and granite sites
clipped on: 11.13.2008 at 01:21 pm    last updated on: 11.13.2008 at 01:21 pm

Stone Information and Advice (& Checklists)

posted by: buehl on 04.14.2008 at 02:56 am in Kitchens Forum

First off, I want to give a big thank-you to StoneGirl, Kevin, Joshua, Mimi, and others (past and current) on this forum who have given us many words of wisdom concerning stone countertops.

I've tried to compile everything I saved over the past 8 months that I've been on this Forum. Most of it was taken from a write-up by StoneGirl (Natural stone primer/granite 101); other threads and sources were used as well.

So...if the experts could review the information I've compiled below and send me comments (here or via email), I will talk to StarPooh about getting this on the FAQ.

Stone Information, Advice, and Checklists:

In an industry that has no set standards, there are many unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject.

Slab Selection:

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

  • Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued, or brushed, should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches, or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man-made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab when looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab.

    Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

  • Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This was done at the plant where the slabs were finished. This backing adds support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often, these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.
  • Cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little.

    • Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e., there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure.
    • A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole other can of worms.
    • Resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer.
    • Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed do not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but it is still resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Tests (especially for Absolute Black) (using a sample of YOUR slab):

  • To verify you have true AB and not dyed: Clean with denatured alcohol and rub marble polishing powder on the face. (Get denatured alcohol at Home Depot in the paint department)
  • Lemon Juice or better yet some Muratic Acid: will quickly show if the stone has alot of calcium content and will end up getting etched. This is usually chinese stone, not indian.
  • Acetone: The Dying usually is done on the same chinese stone. like the others said, acetone on a rag will reveal any dye that has been applied
  • Chips: Using something very hard & metalhit the granite sharply & hard on edges to see if it chips, breaks, or cracks


  • Before the templaters get there...
    • Make sure you have a pretty good idea of your faucet layout--where you want the holes drilled for all the fixtures and do a test mock up to make sure you have accounted for sufficient clearances between each fixture.
    • Be sure you test your faucet for clearances not just between each fixture, but also between the faucet and the wall behind the faucet (if there is one). You need to be sure the handle will function properly.
    • Make sure that the cabinets are totally level (not out by more than 1/8") before the counter installers come in.
    • Check how close they should come to a stove and make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter.
    • Make sure they have the sink/faucet templates to work from.
    • Make sure have your garbage disposal air switch on hand or know the diameter

  • If you are not putting in a backsplash, tell them
  • Double check the template. Make sure that the measurements are reasonable. Measure the opening for the range.
  • Seam Placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

    Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality, and their placementand still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

  • Factors determining seam placement:
    • The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)
    • Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available
    • Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will influence seam placement here alone.
    • Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some do not. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.
    • Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -
    • Install-ability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again, 1,001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

    You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

    With modern glues and seaming methods, a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam is done well, there is - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

    Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

  • Generally, it is not a good idea to seam over a DW because there's no support for the granite, and anything heavy placed at or near the seam would stress the stone, possibly breaking it.
  • Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece
  • Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e., eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.
    Edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world. Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.


  • Seams:
    One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum [StoneGirl]

    • A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:
      • It should be flat. According to the Marble Institute of America (MIA) a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.
      • It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)
      • The color on either side of the seam should match as closely as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.
      • Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases, the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.
      • The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge, you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.
      • The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)
      • The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as closely as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try to make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

  • Checklist:
    • Check the seams for evenness and smoothness.
      • Make sure that the seams are neat and clean.
      • Make sure that the seams are not obvious.
      • Make sure the seams are butted tight
      • Make sure that there are no scratches, pits, or cracks

    • If sealing is necessary (not all granites need to be sealed):
      • Make sure that the granite has been sealed
      • If more than one application of sealer was applied, ask how long they waited between applications
      • Ask which sealer has been used on the granite.

    • Make sure the sink reveal is consistent all the away around
    • Check the gap of the granite at the wall junctions.
    • Check for inconsistent overhangs from the counter edges
    • Check for chips. These can be filled.
    • Make sure the top drawers open & close
    • Make sure that you can open & close your dishwasher
    • Make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter
    • Make sure that you have the appropriate clearances for your appliances
    • Check the edge all around, a good edge should have the following characteristics:
      • Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull, or waxy.
      • The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.
      • The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.
      • A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.
      • A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly, and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanical fabrication (i.e., CNC machines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

    • Run your hands around the entire laminated edge of yor counters to make sure they are smooth
    • Check surrounding walls & cabinets for damage

Miscellaneous Information:

  • More than all the above and below, though, is to be present for both the templating as well as having the templates placed on your slabs at the fabricator's
    If you canot be there, then have a lengthy conversation about seam placement, ways to match the movement, and ways to color-match the counters that will be joined at the seam
  • Find a fabricator who is a member of the SFA
  • When they polish your stone for you don't let them wax it. It will look terrible in 2 months when the wax wears off.
  • Don't use the Magic Eraser on granite--especially AB
  • Any slab with more fill (resin) than stone is certainly a no-no!!
  • When you do check for scratches, have overhead lighting shining down so scratches are easier to see
  • Don't let them do cutouts in place (granite dust becomes a major issue)
  • Granite dust can be a problem...some have heard of SS appliances & hoods damaged by the dust, others have heard of drawer glides being ruined by the dust
  • If you have wood floors--especially if you're in the process of staining or finishing them--make sure that they don't spill or drip granite sealer on the wood floors. Apparently the sealer interferes with the stain or finish process.
  • Suggested Prep for Installation:
    • Remove any drawers and pullouts beneath any sections that will be cut or drilled onsite, e.g., sink cutouts and/or faucet, soap dispenser, air gap, instant hot etc. holes, cooktop cutouts.
    • Then just cover the glides themselves with a few layers of blue painter's tape (or some combo of plastic wrap and tape)
    • If you make sure to cover the top of the glides and attach some of the tape to the cab wall as well (to form sort of a seal)and cover the rest of the glides completely with tape, you should be fine.
    • Usually the fabricators will have someone holding a vacuum hose right at the spot where they are drilling or cutting, so very little granite dust should be landing on the glides. What little dust escapes the vacuum will be blocked by the layer(s) of tape.
    • When done w/installation, remove the tape and use a DustBuster (or similar) on all the cabinets and glides

  • Countertop Support:
    • If your granite is 2 cm thick, then there can be no more then 6" of of unsupported span with a 5/8" subtop
    • If your granite is 3 cm thick, then there can be no more then 10" of unsupported span - no subtop required
    • If you need support, the to determine your corbel dimensions:
    • Thickness of Stone - Dimension of Unsupported Span = Corbel Dimensino
    • i.e., an 18" total overhang in 2 cm would require a 12" corbe; the same overhang in 3 cm would require an 8" corbel


first part of granite countertop thread
clipped on: 11.11.2008 at 01:22 pm    last updated on: 11.11.2008 at 01:22 pm

RE: Stone Information and Advice (& Checklists) (Follow-Up #40)

posted by: buehl on 10.21.2008 at 05:12 pm in Kitchens Forum

Sink Undermount Options

There are pros & cons for each type of reveal:

  • Positive Reveal. The sink shows; granite cutout is slightly larger than sink
    • Pros: Easier to clean b/c you can see the gunk and can easily wipe it off (it only gets nasty if you leave it there)
    • Cons: Silicone (caulk?) is visible, but if they use clear you won't see it when it dries

  • Negative Reveal. The granite overhangs the sink; granite cutout is slightly smaller than the sink
    • Pros: You cannot see the gunk buildup or silicone
    • Cons:
      • You cannot see the gunk to clean it.
      • Dirty water/food can splash up & under where you cannot see to clean it. It's difficult to see underneath w/o leaning way over & into the sink.
      • Dishes/glasses have been known to break b/c when you lift them out near the edge of the sink the dish hits the stone counter & can break (or, if the dish wins, the counter could chip...but I'm not sure how likely that is).

  • Zero Reveal or Flush. Sink & granite are flush or even; the granite cutout & sink are the same size
    • Pros:
      • Easier to clean b/c you can see the gunk
      • No platform over or under for the gunk to collect

    • Cons:
      • More difficult to do perfectly
      • Silicone is visible, but if they use clear you won't see it when it dries

You will find proponents of all three types of reveals here...but in the end it's what works best for you.


2nd part of granite countertops thread
clipped on: 11.11.2008 at 01:21 pm    last updated on: 11.11.2008 at 01:21 pm

RE: fire & ice backsplash (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: gozalyn on 10.06.2008 at 11:42 pm in Kitchens Forum

I posted in one of the other fire & ice threads - I paid $13.65/sq ft with no shipping costs from Coliseum Stone & Tile in Oakland, CA. I called all the stores in the Bay Area and they were the cheapest.


Where to buy fire and ice
clipped on: 11.07.2008 at 06:16 am    last updated on: 11.11.2008 at 10:28 am

RE: Fire and Ice 2 X 2 Morena Tile-Amber (Follow-Up #21)

posted by: jodi_in_so_calif on 09.11.2008 at 01:28 pm in Kitchens Forum

Gozalyn, wow, you indeed did get a great price! I think the average price is $16-$18.

I see nothing at all odd about choosing your countertop based on your backsplash when it's something like Fire & Ice!

Jan, the gal we got our Fire & Ice sample from was over last weekend to take photos of our kitchen for her album. When I told her that it was backordered until October 31st she didn't believe me. Monday she called her distributor and was told indeed it was backordered until the end of October. She believes the shortage could really be linked to the first photos I posted to the forum last January. :-)

I want to see more photos of your kitchen Gozalyn once you're all done. And step back a bit when you take one of the pictures so we can get a look of the whole kitchen.

Morton5, you too! Take photos and post them here please. I love to see Fire & Ice in other kitchens.



Jodi added darker glass tiles to her fire and ice.
clipped on: 11.07.2008 at 06:14 am    last updated on: 11.07.2008 at 06:14 am

RE: Fire and Ice 2 X 2 Morena Tile-Amber (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: jan01tx on 09.04.2008 at 10:50 am in Kitchens Forum

Well, after multiple phone calls, I tracked the 2X2 tiles down and want to share the information in case anyone else needs it. MasterTile in Anaheim, CA, still has approx. 1800 sq.ft. of the amber tiles; it has been discontinued but will be available until it all sells. Their phone number is (714)712-8210. The product ID is: INT-ILV-BURAMB. I ordered 2 sq.ft. for a total cost, including $15 shipping to Texas, for $50.00.

That is the good news. The bad news is, I found out late yesterday afternoon that the Fire and Ice is backordered until OCTOBER 31. I can't imagine waiting another 2 months for my backsplash to finally be completed, but I love the tile sooo much that I am willing to wait.

Thanks again for everyone's help!!


clipped on: 11.07.2008 at 06:11 am    last updated on: 11.07.2008 at 06:11 am

RE: how to save a buck or two?? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: buehl on 09.01.2008 at 03:57 pm in Kitchens Forum

"Saving" money is a complicated thing. Yes, you can go cheap on many items but they will not last, causing you to re-do at a later date and, probably, ending up spending at least as much by having to buy twice as you would have to buy quality the first time. Don't go in with the mindset of "saving a buck or two," rather, what is the best (quality) I can afford.

If your budget is limited...

IMHO, the first think you can do is look at what you can do now and what you can do later.

  • E.g., If you need new cabinets, it's better to get the best you can up front. Your kitchen usually revolves around your cabinets...sets the style and feel for your kitchen as a whole. Note that door style and finish often have a big impact on the price. (You might also look at IKEA cabinets, many people here like them, but door style is limited. You can go to someone else for doors. There's at least one thread about IKEA floating around.)
  • Some woods, like cherry, are usually a 10% to 20% overall upcharge. Others, have no upcharge.
  • Glazes are also often an upcharge, although some cabinet lines include them at no upcharge (but check what kind of glazing process is used and get a sample...there are cheap glazes and there are more expensive ones)
  • OTOH, if you need a new floor, you can go with an inexpensive laminate/vinyl now and upgrade to hardwood or tile later. Yes, it's easier to put in a floor while the cabinets are out, but it's also not that difficult to put one in later.
  • A backsplash is another item that can wait. Go with painted walls for now and put in a backsplash later (that's actually one of the things we did to cut costs).
  • Other things that can molding, decorative door end panels. Yes, they give a more "finished" and upscale look to a kitchen, but they can also be added later.
  • Faucets are also easily changed out. Reuse what you have now until you can afford your "dream" faucet.

Granite: As others have mentioned, price is mostly driven by "supply & demand" + fabrication cost. First, not all granites are the same. Some require more upkeep than others. Some are busy, some calm, some plain. Decide how much maintenance you're willing to do and what look or feel you want to extend to the kitchen (in collaboration w/the cabinets). Ask yourself what is to take "center stage"...cabinets (then a calmer or plainer granite will work better), granite (then a busier or more striking granite will be better). Oh, and don't scrimp on this arena you often get what you pay for. But note that fabrication costs are different...some fabricators include a cutout or two or other holes, others charge for every hole/cutout. Look at edges...some only include an eased or straight edge & charge per linear foot for anything different (ranging from $10 to $25 to more!) while others let you "upgrade" the edge for no cost. So, do your homework!

Ticor sink...we also have one (S405D) and love it!

Check out the following threads:

Scrimp on this, Splurge on that....
Now that I have [X], I think I could have lived without it.
What do you wish you had done differently? [July 2007 thread]
What do you wish you had done differently? [August 2008 thread]
Best advice from this forum

The best piece of advice I can give you is to do your research...your options, quality, cost.

Good luck!


clipped on: 11.04.2008 at 07:03 am    last updated on: 11.04.2008 at 07:04 am