For a 4-burner w/oven, the CSSC (5/8" OD pipe) should be just fine at 48", as 22+22+15+11= 70kBTU on the top + 30kBTU in the oven = 100 kBTU/hr

For gas pipe, 20' of 1/2" gas pipe, grand total distance to the meter, is rated at 118 kBTU/hr, 30' drops to 95 kBTU. Back when ranges were on the order of 60 kBTU, 1/2" was functional; those days are long gone, even with box store ranges.

If you have at least 12", then I agree that other uses would be more useful.

Have only 9"? That's borderline. A 9" drawer isn't very useful since by the time you factor in the cabinet walls, face frame (if you have framed), drawer walls, and clearance space on the sides for glides & movement, you have a very narrow drawer. OTOH, you could use it for tray storage, but if you have plenty of that storage elsewhere (like over double ovens or a refrigerator), then I would consider a 9" filler pullout.

Filler pullouts have no cabinet walls, frames, or drawer walls to eat up space. You just need the clearance for movement. They attach to either the cabinets next to them or to a top frame.

So...are you sacrificing storage space that could be better used elsewhere (e.g., be added to a cabinet next to it) or are you dealing with filler? Do you want the "leg" look flanking a cooktop or do you not care about that look?

The answers to the above questions will tell you what's best for you. BTW...you don't have to store spices there or even have shelves like you're thinking about. There are other "systems" that are available. Checkout the link to Rev-A-Shelf's filler pullouts to see what's available.

As to the question of whether it's a problem to get to items on the bottom shelf...I suggest storing tall items (like oils) on the bottom shelf so you just have to reach about half-way down to get to the items. Be sure you have adjustable shelves! I have two 6" filler pullouts flanking my cooktop that would have been filler if not pullouts, so there's no question in my mind that I wanted some sort of pullouts. Unfortunately, Omega only carried the non-adjustable pullouts when I got mine so I'm stuck w/shelves spaced as-delivered...which meant I can't store my oils there. But, I do store a lot of other things. I don't have a lot of spices, but I do store things like molasses, recipe cards, cornstarch, cocoa, etc. in one (plus the few spices I do have). The most used are stored on the top two shelves. The other filler pullout has cooking/baking sprinkles & cupcake papers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rev-A-Shelf Filler Pull-Outs - Base

I picked up an idea here for my spices that I just love, and it works fabulously well in a drawer or wire pull-out. That's storing your spices in a test tube rack.

Advantages:

- Great for cooks who use LOTS of different spices. (I'm up to a 54-tube system now; my first box was only 40).
- Labels on the lids are easy to read from above, so no bending down.
- Containers are fairly small, so your spices stay fresher. You can freeze excess spices between refills.
- Stored in a drawer, spices are protected from light, humidity and heat, again, keeping them fresher.
- Test tubes can be refilled *cheaply* from bulk spices. It generally costs me less than 50 cents to buy a tube's full of bulk spices.
- Because they all fit into one easy-to-lift-out box, I can pull out the entire spice box when I need a few spices or to do my refills.
- With labels on the lids, my spices are organized alphabetically and everything is really easy to find.
- No more searching through the dark depths of an upper for a little-used spice.
- No 'how old?' duplicates because the originals got shoved to the back of the shelf and died there.
- It's easy to see what spices you need more of. I can call home from the grocery store and even my kids can check my spice box for what's running low. ("We've got an inch of Tarragon - Is that OK?")

There are many other great spice storage solutions waiting -- Just do a Search...

DH didn't want to put in a serious cooktop and hood and have what he felt ws the look of builder cheap mesh filters. It was the same issue with flat drawer fronts -- had to be 5 piece for us, and the KD and I knew there was no use trying to convince him otherwise. He would always feel flat drawer fronts and mesh filters looked "cheap."

We tested both sets of filters when the hood was first installed. There is no difference in the sound we get from the blower (external, but in a short straight run without room for a silencer), but I do think the mesh give you a bit more of the air woosh sound as the air passes over a lot of little wirey elements instead of a few larger pieces, especially at higher speeds. I have read that mesh is supposed to operate better at lower speeds and the baffles at higher. I haven't tested that, but this seems to work pretty well for us. Even at 1200cfm fully cranked, it is not as loud as the minimal downdraft we had before.

At full speed (1200 cfm), we can still talk across the kitchen and into the family room, but it may require the person in the family room to speak up a bit. I can't say that I can hear everything on the TV when I am standing right under it though. On the low speed through about mid range, all you notice is a motor hum, and on the lowest speed, we've walked out of the kitchen and left it on. Only after the kids have gone to bed and everything quiets down for a while have I noticed that we forgot to turn it off.

I'm pleased overall -- did you see my post about popping and filling 90 bags of popcorn, delivering them and coming home to no popcorn smell? I loved that! Every now and then I wonder what it would be like with a silencer. I wish you could see, and hear, vent hoods installed. It's the one thing I felt almost completely blind in buying.

In the Wolf, I had the 36 inch Pro Wall hood with heat lamps (not the liner) (matched with the Wolf 36/6 open burner AG) and would not hesitate to use that hood again under similar circumstances. It was extremely well made to the point of just being d@mned impressive to just look at. Down side was the internal blower which was a limitation of my installation application and limitations and not a Wolf issue...IMO all internal blowers are loud. It was 900 CFM and just barely enough, but again, I was limited to an internal blower application and that was the largest internal blower available. Anyway, the Wolf product is very good. If using it again for the same range, I would match it (or its liner cousin) with a 1200 cfm remote blower and would have over sized the hood/capture area by at least 6 inches (3 each side).

I considered the Prestige high capacity hood for our current application at the recommendation of Trevor at Eurostoves so I compared the 2. The Prestige high capacity liner with its unique center vaulted baffle design was appealing due to the increased filter area. The baffles are about half the width of the Wolf so there are twice as many baffles to filter the exhaust. I find the Prestige baffles need cleaning much more often than the Wolf did which is a good thing b/c it means they are filtering better. Also, the high capacity liner offered a much higher CFM option than Wolf did. Prestige offered a 2500 CFM blower while Wolf's max was 1500. 2500 was more than I needed (my BTUs/set up was rated for 2,000) but I got the 2500 any way b/c it was only $200 more. It is mounted over a 60 inch Blue Star range w/ 8 burners and a grill. The 2500 CFM blower handles the highest of cooking smoke/output at less than full power.

The CFM max capacity is not an issue for you. Whatever you do, if possible, over size the capture area and round up on CFMs and you will be happiest (IMO). I highly recommend the Prestige high capacity liner.

The only other thing that comes to mind is that the Wolf had a plastic control panel and knobs. The heat took its toll on the knobs over time and had to be replaced. The Prestige is all metal everything.

I looked at the Modern Aire referenced above. It also looks like a very good unit too but I would not dismiss Wolf just b/c they make your range. Actually, if you were not going with a liner, the Wolf hood matches up with the Wolf range best IMO. With the liner option, you will never really know whose it is once installed in the cabinet enclosure.

Also, I am puzzled as to why you are going with a 30" hood instead of a 36" hood. The ideal hood setup is 3" on either side of the range. Many people do not have the space for this, so forego it and get a hood the same size of the range. But those who are lucky enough to have the space, get the extra 6" on the hood size. Smoke and grease doesn't just rise straight up, it goes out the sides. Those 3" open spaces you are planning on either side of your range will allow smoke and grease to flow around and past the hood. You will be spending a lot of money on a hood that won't be as effective as it could be. So, since you do have the space, my advice is to get a 36" hood.

You said you are installing the venting ductwork--make sure you use 8" or 10" diameter ducts. Anything smaller will increase the noise and decrease the effectiveness of your exhaust, regardless of which hood you choose.

Do you know the style you prefer?

To answer your questions - on a lot of them you buy the hood and fan together but seperate (probably a couple choices on fans - internal vs external, different CFM, etc based on your needs).

You will also need to buy the vent ducting seperate (or have your GC do so).

For a point of reference - our 42" SS Independent Incline hood with a 1200 cfm internal blower cost about $1700. Its the one shown here:

http://www.universal-akb.com/42inwahoin.html

For all of the Independent hoods - you can check out the link below

Here is a link that might be useful: Independent Hoods

As far as temperature regulation goes, my feeling is that, at the same rough price point, the control is just about as good. This is because the thermostat is probably the same in either model. The difference is what it controls; a relay for the element or a gas valve. The oven temperature stability comes a lot from the mass of metal that make up the cavity and the insulation around it (a big part of why you want an oven to be at "operating" temperature for a while before you start to bake).

Trevor, at EuroStoves has some nice videos about gas ovens in BlueStar ranges. While I do think that BlueStar is a exceptional piece, my feeling is that you'd probably see comparable performance in competitive pieces, at least as far as heating time and stability goes. BlueStar has a 30kBTU/hr oven, not unusual for prosumer ranges, but more than the 15-18kBTU/hr you'd find in a $1000 box-store piece. 30kBTU/hr is about 8,800 watts -- much more than the 2,500 watts I see in even some of the prosumer electric ranges. It's not completely apples-to-apples, as I believe more of the heat of the gas burner escapes without heating the oven that with electric.

I have heard that home electric convection ovens are somewhat better than home gas convection ovens when it comes to getting that nice browning that you see in a commercial convection oven. I have heard that neither one gets terribly close.

The expense for electric can be prohibitive if you don't already have the 220 circuit in place. For us, there would be about $5000 involved since we would need to upgrade from 100A to 200A main service.

The Windcrest seems well made (on the basis of one review), but it has wider chimney (15"), mesh filters, and only a 3-position switch. HOWEVER, it is $800 cheaper (almost 40% less than the $2100 BlueStar).

I'm having a really hard time justifying the price difference solely to get baffles and the infinite switch. Can anyone comment on the Windcrest hood?

We’d already settled on a 4-burner BlueStar 30" slide-in rangetop as suiting our—well, his—flamboyant cooking style. Larger would have been nicer, but absent a complete kitchen realignment, existing cabinetry constrained our size choice.

So if you’ve got a lovely 30" BlueStar, you’re going to require a 36" hood with adequate depth and some decent CFMs, right? That much we figured out right away. What was tricky was deciding what to do about the decorative over-the-cabinets soffit that transits the length of our kitchen. (This house has many stunning architectural details, but sometimes it reminds me of a kid’s electronic gimmick where the toy gets to do all the playing.) We had a maximum of only 14" below the soffit, considering that 30" above the cooktop is generally the recommended placement for the bottom of the hood. Furthermore, that soffit absolutely dictated a hood that vents out the back—in our case, straight out through the wall.

Now, Modernaire had a product that cosmetically would have been perfect; besides that, their ability to do custom sizing meant we could have gotten a nontraditional hood height of 14", provided with back venting. But negotiations broke down when we were referred to a distributor who took so long to return our initial call (and never did respond to e-mail inquiries) that we knew this: If they’re not there when you’re handing out the money, what assurance do you have that they’ll be there if anything goes wrong later on?

"Bless those who disappoint you, for they are leading you toward a better path." I live by that creed. And my better path led first to Eurostoves, because of their knowledge, responsiveness, and reputation for excellent customer service. Trevor recommended Prestige, by BlueStar, but it was pricier than Hubbest wanted to go, given that the Modernaire negotiations for my dream hood had fallen through.

Then we flashed on Eurostove’s special on the Cavaliere hoods, whose finish Trevor found quite lovely, and the height was acceptable, so I said, "Send it." THEN I looked at the specs and realized it only vented out the top, a real deal-breaker for our circumstances (because of the infamous soffit, remember?). A quick call to cancel the order, which, fortunately, had not yet shipped, and it was back to the drawing board.

Are we having fun yet? You who have agonized over hood selection know the feeling.

For some time, Broan’s Elite had been on our radar screen, but I was concerned about the loudness (they rate their 600 CFMs at 13.5 sones) and the seams. Still, it’s a stainless baffle, pro-style hood with adequate capture area. And Trevor felt it could be a decent answer, given our parameters. So although it’s 18" tall, we ordered it.

Then began the real headache: what to do about the soffit? One contractor suggested cutting into it. A second said he’d truncate it. A third envisioned rerouting it (up and over the top of the hood), to the tune of $2,700. I just closed my eyes, crossed my fingers, and prayed.

Meanwhile, our BlueStar arrived at the local dealer’s warehouse. "Send it out," said Hubbest with excitement. And for three days we admired it, parked ingloriously on our dining room table, awaiting the installer and the arrival of our Broan Elite hood. Hubbest petted it daily. Then, anticipating its installation, he removed our dainty little glasstop Creda.

Finally, here came the installer and his helper. One look, an "I don’t do tile," and there went the erstwhile installing team, leaving our gaping hole unfilled.

What now?

Remember that old camp skit where the villain is threatening the sweet young thing with eviction and the hero comes charging in, eyes flashing, and declares, "I’LL pay the rent"? That’s my man. (Fortunately, he’s very handy, having been a sailor and a mountain man, and the BlueStar is a simple machine—especially in its rangetop iteration.)

But now what do you do when you’ve got two 22k burners right up front and rarin’ to go, and no hood to vent their fury? You pace the floor. You check your tracking information. You measure and remeasure and fuss and fume and sweat a lot.

And then the hood arrives and you say "Yay! Hooray! (But what about the soffit?)" And THEN you get out the tape measure to check the dimensions of the hood, which is…30" wide? Blink. Gape. Gulp.

Everybody’s paperwork said 36". Mine, Eurostoves, everybody’s. Yet the hood was indisputably, undeniably, unremittingly 30" wide, no more.

But that’s why you go with a company known for their exemplary customer service. Despite all the ordering information to the contrary, the hood had arrived in the wrong width, and Eurostoves made good on it, immediately and forthwith.

Did I mention that Hubbest is also a Harley rider? Do you think, champing at the bit, that he’d wait for a 36" Broan to be shipped from the East Coast? Right you are.

So we called for the 10" tall, 36" wide, back-venting, seamless Kobe within our grasp. The soffit would be inviolate. We could cook again. And we would have ventilation. 800 CFMs on high, with only 4.5 sones. In Quiet mode, at only 1.5 sones, we let her run all the way through dinner, vacuuming the last cooking smells from the air.

Somebody on GW found the Kobe’s halogen lights to be too dim. That’s not our appraisal. And we improved the capture area of our Kobe’s 22" depth by building it 2" out from the wall, thereby achieving the effect of a 24-incher.

I like its sleek, seamless lines, and though I still look wistfully at the photo of that Modernaire hood that grabbed me, I think our Kobe looks just fine. And at less than half the price.

Finally we’re the ones doing the playing.

Details
Cabinets - custom. Painted using Cabinet Coat colored in White Dove by BM
Floors - red oak stained medium brown
Countertops - Absolute black granite on the perimeter, Monte Bello granite on the island
Backsplash - Walker Zanger Newport Seaweed subway
Door hardware - ORB cup pulls on the drawers, and ORB egg shaped knobs on the doors
Faucet - Kohler Vinnata...the smaller one (I can't remember the dimensions, but I believe its about 2" shorter than the large one)
Lighting - the 2 lights over the island are mini-chandeliers I got from Lighting Universe online
Fridge - Jenn Air counter depth
Range - 6 burner Viking
Oven - 30" GE Profile
Microwave - LG
Dishwasher - Asko

Thanks to everyone who shared their information. Overall, we are very pleased with it. There are a few things I'd do differently but they are pretty minor. If it wasn't for this site, I'm not sure it would have turned out as nice as it did.

We redid our oak and tile kitchen with black paint and marble. It was a mix of DIY (I painted our cabinets) and help - the marble was installed and fabricated by someone else, obviously. We pulled out the tile ourselves, both counter and floor, and installed the appliances ourselves. Our kitchen remodel in total cost just under $10,000. I've blogged about it in detail if anyone is interested.

Before and After pictures.

How I made my kitchen choices.

My best shot at a how-to on painting kitchen cabinets yourself.

A complete source list as best I remember.

Here's a few pictures:

Great forum, good luck with everyone on their current endeavors.

Warmly,
Rebekah

lds1, if you like the Profile you may want to look at the GE Cafe too. I could not find any range in between those two general price ranges with good service available in our area. We also looked at DCS while less than the Wolf it's still in that price area. The Cafe as 5 burners (sort of) and a lower oven drawer that heats up to 450. Prices vary so shop around and ask for the best price.

The kitchen is very close to the end of what I can do right now. The electrician needs to hang one pendant in the center of the island and install the lights in the hutch. Of course, the cabinets will not have aluminum foil, but I've gotta love it until I can make a decision on the kind metal in the doors and the finish. Also the clean-up run badly needs a backsplash. All the antique doors and the white door await refinishing.

The floor has been the thorn. The sub did a nice job laying the floor, but the finish is another story. The first time the color was streaked and uneven and there were pools and swaths of finish as well as grit and hair. He came back in a huff and sanded the unacceptable spots and recoated. The unevenness is much better; the pools are worse amd the grit and hair are still there. We didn't want him back, but the GC talked to him. He isn't sanding to the wood, so the actual floor will be ok if he blows it again. I'll spare you the sub's the four-letter details with the GC. GC has been fabulous through the whole project, floor included.

I promise better quality pics later.

Island looking toward the front of the house.
Canned food, rice & pasta storage behind the doors. Prep utensils, bowls, etc. in the drawers.

prep side of island:

White door is the pantry closet

To bakery and garage

Cooktop ~ the window looks out to the side yard. We have no front or back yard.

Clean-up side and gorgeous backsplash, lol

DW

Hutch

Light over the sink

Fridge

Tea/coffee, mugs, glassware, storage containers, baking dishes, MW, little convection oven

Pic the cabinetmakers matched ~ mine are their standard 5/8'' overlay to keep the cost of the cabinets reasonable

Bakery ~ VERY unfinished!
I had to have white inset cabinets somewhere!

Keeping room

To foyer & living room

To back hall & stairs up & old kitchen

I feel like I am giving birth. :~)

Judy

To go a little OT here: we have a 36in DCS gas range and have a 36in Sirius SU23 hood over it, and the only time we have an issue is when we do high-heat searing on an outside burner and do not have the fan on at least mid-high. There can be some smoke leakage up and around the outside of the hood. That being said, we deal with it and LOVE the "minimalist Italian design" look that would be marred by having a wider hood over top, we felt.

Here's a pic...

Sirius makes some aweosme hoods, all from Italy and take a few weeks for delivery. The quality is excellent, the fan speeds very efficient and quiet, and the filters eassily removeable and dishwaher safe.

Their distributor site is here:
http://www.siriuscappe.com/ing/products_sirius_hoods.htm

Many online places carry them -- see below. And, by the way, if Bertazzoni was available in mid-2005, when we were making our house-build-buy decisions, we would have bought one in a New York minute - they are gorgeous!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Sirius range hoods

As to distance to outside and hood efficiency. The longer the run and the more turns the higher CFM you must have. Of course it makes a difference. Also you MUST start your hood running at least 5 minutes before you start cooking and leave it running that long after...the air has to get moving and keep moving.

Pics of our hood ,,,setting is on med ( if you have too high a setting it causes a turbulence in the duct and the odors etc come back in rather than go on out...this is law of physics DH says so we have stopped using high)

Miele deep fat fryer:

steaks on Lodge Logic grill pan:

hood liner/cooking area

I think the inline blower and silencer is the Rolls Royce setup. It's powerful and ultra quiet. IMHO nothing else compares. I've been criticized for constantly touting Modern Aire, but I'll briefly restate that they can custom build your hood to any specs/design you want, at a price that is competitive with VAH, Viking, etc.

Hate it. Loud as he**, even on lowest setting, and only mediocre ventilation performance. Silly "squirrel cage" design a huge pain to clean. Fan and light switches awkwardly mounted under front edge of hood, have to crane neck under to see/use. Overpriced.

2) A custom Modern Aire 64'' x 24'' hood liner, bumped out from the wall about 2-3'', housed in an alcove.

Fantech FKD 10XL inline remote blower 1200 cfm. Coupled with the LD10 silencer, it's virtually inaudible even at 1200 cfm. Phenomenal ventilation performance in our setup. Construction is jewel-like. Gorgeous, pro-style baffles which can be thrown in the dishwasher in just a few seconds. Remote infinitely variable fan control and light switch on dimmer mounted remotely on wall next to range. Price comparable to off the shelf units despite totally custom specs.

It sits over a Lacanche Cluny 1400, 55'' wide, 5 burners plus French top, total BTU's about 80K.

I totally love the MA.