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RE: Kitchen Aid Dish Washer (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: dadoes on 02.10.2009 at 04:32 pm in Appliances Forum

Does this help?

Flashing Clean Light


clipped on: 02.10.2009 at 10:49 pm    last updated on: 02.10.2009 at 10:49 pm

RE: My new Bosch is NOT quiet (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: chefkev on 02.08.2009 at 02:22 am in Appliances Forum

Agree with gini2 and muddypond - My Bosch is something like 57 db and I can barely hear it.

When mine was first installed, my local laws require an air gap, so one was put in and it made this ridiculously loud gurgling noise. I was so cheesed off because I felt I had paid a premium for a quiet dishwasher and had this noisy gurgling thing. After receiving advice from this forum (thanks Weissman and others) I switched to a high loop underneath and now have a nice quiet DW.

Soooo! What is it that you are hearing? Is it the actual sound of the dishwasher running? Is it an electronic or mechanical sound? Is it the sound of water gurgling? Let us know.


clipped on: 02.08.2009 at 09:07 am    last updated on: 02.08.2009 at 09:07 am

RE: Why Do You Love Your Miele Oven? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: trailrunner on 01.03.2009 at 03:08 pm in Appliances Forum

I use the rotisserie a lot. I found that as someone else suggested if you put 1/2 c or so of water in the drip pan there is no splatter. I was amazed. Almost zero cleanup so we are now using it all the time. rococogurl that is for you !

The temps are always perfect. After trying adjustments to temp per my reading and the book that came with the oven I returned to using the same bake temps as I always used. It has held true and my breads and tarts and cakes are all baked perfectly. I donot bake cookies or pastries anymore so have not tried it in this oven. As 246 says the pizzas are perfect.

It really comes down to what kind of cooking you like to do or aspire to do. They are 2 different things. Sit down with a piece of paper and read what we have said and see if those are things you are going to cook or learn to cook. Are you needing 3 racks of cookies and 6 pies and 12 loaves of bread? That is the bottom line. What and how much and then the price. I got mine as the floor model and they took off $1500. The technology is fabulous. I will never change. I hope this has helped you decide. c

Please post any other queries we all love to help.


clipped on: 01.15.2009 at 01:59 pm    last updated on: 01.15.2009 at 02:00 pm

RE: Dishwasher Loading on Miele (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: monaw on 10.17.2008 at 10:42 am in Appliances Forum

Momotom, don't know what's up with the post situation either! Lucky I looked back to the latest posts. Some of my bowls that I use are thick too. First of all, to try and answer your question, YES THERE IS ROOM in the bottom with a space in the back of my rack and I do put my thick bowls on their sides down there all the time. Mine has TWO rows of tines near the back which both let down flat if need be. I can put huge bowls or you could put lots of bowls there as well and "piggyback" them. There's just all kinds of options. I was surprised because to look inside it seems rather "simple" The top rack also has adjustable tines which I did not discover right away. I was delighted when I finally noticed them!
(ah...the things that make one happy) :)
I can honestly tell you that if I have never had a dishwasher (probably 10 or so in my lifetime when you count the moves) that has held as many dishes that I can get into this dishwasher! And, I have never had a problem fitting any shape of dish in there either. You would think a Woman designed this dishwasher, let's put it that way! My sister-in-law has an 9 year old Miele that was the least expensive model back then and she has had 0 problems and it still runs like new. (My last Maytag lasted 4 years.)
It is EXTREMELY user friendly in that I think Miele took into accountability (CLEVERLY I might add) the needs of the customer. When I go to other peoples houses and help with dishes after using mine, I really feel sorry for them, because they have no idea what they're missing. Another of sister-in-law of mine had a Bosch and to me it was a joke compared to the Miele!
It will take a little time for your brain to switch over to how it works best to load it, because it has the capabilities that others don't. Soon you will be going, "Wow- I can't believe how much this thing holds" If you take more time of course you can fit more in it. When I entertain the thing is often loaded down to the gills and everything always comes out perfectly clean.
Now, a bit of advice if you should go with the Miele. You MUST have a qualified certified Miele guy to install. Drainage problems have been an issue for the ones installed improperly, as well as stinky smells. lol
The guy who installed mine worked for Viking for 15 years by the way.
(He said Miele made the best dishwashers and clothes washers and dryers)
He said NEVER use liquid detergent or those "packs", and he said to measure exactly 1 tablespoon of Cascade and no more. Keep Jetdry in it,
and then to clean it set a cup of Tang on the shelf and run it though an empty dishwasher. Mine is three years old and I've never had to do that. It looks brand new on the inside with no mineral deposits. Using too much detergent is not a good thing. Also, if a little water on your plastic bugs you, open it up after it has been finished drying for a while and crack the door and leave it. BUT wait until it cools off a little before opening because that can cause glasses to get milky if you do it right away when they're steaming hot. I guess the more expensive models dry a little better but I still have a little wet plastic and some water in "dips", etc. Doesn't bother me.
Anyway there's my two cents and I hope I've helped you come to the right decision! I am in the process of choosing double ovens right now and I feel your pain! I've probably taken a couple of years off my life! :)
I'm have finally decided today to go with Miele . I also have their vacuum and I love that too.
Good luck!


clipped on: 10.18.2008 at 08:43 pm    last updated on: 10.18.2008 at 08:43 pm

RE: Miele DW odor (Follow-Up #16)

posted by: luken on 06.11.2008 at 03:09 am in Appliances Forum

I've just been through this thread and the other one linked about the Miele Swamp Odour and can't believe my eyes.

There is so much trollop being dribbled here.

Let's make this clear - regardless of the brand, a machine will not produce odor by itself.

Something has been introduced to the machine.

In rare cases, we've seen a reaction to the plastic/rubber inside (a Miele) machine - but it's been quite obvious when switching detergent/rinse aide, what the culprit is.

Now - there's a few things you'd need to do before ANYTHING else.

Look in your manual for the words "Drain Pump and Non-return Valve" (for Miele machine). Do not clean your filter and think it's fine, you need to check the non-return valve regularly too.

Once that is done - check the cycle/programme chart in your manual for the machine you have and choose the hottest wash - run it empty. No detergent, no dishes.

Check after cycle ends.

If you still have the odor - run a small amount (1/2 cup is fine) of vinegar.

Note this is only for odor. For lime/calcium deposits - use and Acid Descaler. (this may also help with odor but is not it's primary use)

Detergents are less likely to help (while they may break down small amounts of food on plates etc,) - hot water is more important for the machine itself.

Get the machine in order - the dishes follow.

Kind Regards,

LukeN - Miele South Australia


clipped on: 10.14.2008 at 06:19 pm    last updated on: 10.14.2008 at 06:20 pm

RE: Handle Replacement? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: zoenipp on 10.12.2008 at 09:42 am in Appliances Forum

I bought a pro-style handle directly from Kitchenaid's parts dept. to replace the curved one on my Architect DW about a year and a half ago. It looks much nicer blending with the pro-style handles on my SZ fridge, GE Monogram pro oven, and Wolf range. I like it because it's much easier to open the DW with wet hands without smudging the front of the DW than it was with the curved handle and you can hang a tea towel from the straight handle if you wish. My husband switched the handles out for me and it was a quick, easy job for him. I am sorry I don't have the parts number to give to you. The new handle cost about $80.00 plus S&H. If you call KA to inquire, plan on being persistent as they won't know what you're referring to and will have to look through their parts list to find it. It's there but it may not be easy for them to locate the part number . . .


clipped on: 10.12.2008 at 06:38 pm    last updated on: 10.12.2008 at 06:38 pm

RE: time to upgrade my refridgerator, suggestions (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: berryberry on 03.07.2008 at 08:30 am in Appliances Forum

Johnny - we have a Samsung French Door model and really like it. Very quiet, efficient, well made. Seperate cooling units for the refrig and freezer sections. Also prcied very competitively.

And Samsung in the JD Powers annual major appliance survey has "Samsung has earned an award in a refrigerator segment for three consecutive years. This is especially impressive considering the high levels of quality and reliability that many appliance manufacturers attain". I attached a link to the JD Powers survey below

Also, if you are buying from Lowes - be sure to sign up on

and they will email / mail you a 10% off coupon in a few days good on pretty much anything up to $5,000. Use the coupon on your refrigerator purchase

Here is a link that might be useful: JD Powers survey


clipped on: 03.08.2008 at 03:12 pm    last updated on: 03.08.2008 at 03:12 pm

RE: Where do I find official dishwasher noise ratings? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: cpovey on 01.16.2008 at 06:46 pm in Appliances Forum

list of dishwashers and their decibel level. Does anyone know if such a list exists? Never in my experience.

Regarding those that don't have grinders, is cleaning out a food cup terribly gross? Not really. I take mine out every couple of weeks, rinse under running water, replace. Takes a minute or less.

As to noise, you could line the sides of the opening with noise reduction material. High-end car audio dealers sell the stuff in sheets. Don't use open-cell foams, as they can absorb moisture, and create a breeding ground for mold.


clipped on: 01.16.2008 at 07:13 pm    last updated on: 01.16.2008 at 07:13 pm

GE Monogram 'In Use' Update

posted by: beaverlake on 12.13.2007 at 03:46 pm in Appliances Forum

Some of the longer-lurking readers may remember that we were building a timberframe home and kept fighting delays. During that time I submitted many postings about research I did along the way. In the end I ended up scrapping about 1/2 of my ideas and we became poster-children for Monogram.

I thought some of you might benefit from our 6 months' experience living with the following:
1. Microwave
2. 36" all refrigerator
3. 36" all freezer
4. 30" double oven ("new style")
5. 48" cooktop (6 burners, grill, no griddle)
6. Dishwashers (two of them, the model with the lights)
7. Wine chiller
8. Beverage cooler

Like I said - "poster children" (and not exactly deprived appliance-wise)

Here's what we've found:
1. Microwave - does what it's supposed to, but we have had service twice for a bad moisture sensor for the reheat function. It does have a powerful high setting

2. Fridge and Freezer - IMHO the best interior layout in the market including the new Freedom/Gagg towers. Both interiors are laid out the same except that the freezer doesn't have enclosed drawers. Fresh foods stay fresh longer than in previous fridges (Kitchenaid, GE). Temp is constant in both units and constant within the units (checked with thermometers). The freezer "works" and for some reason we don't miss the in door ice and water (we installed a Franke filtered water/hot water Little Butler faucet at one of the sinks). BUT since we have a 22 x 45 foot open plan room quiet is important and the compressors are noisier than I would like. We've had one compressor replaced already because of noise and it did make a difference.

3. Oven - interior capacity of the new ovens is great. The all-drawer-glide racks are great and very easy to take out or move. They stay in during cleaning and that works. Heat is even, roasts done right, broiler works well, etc. Multi-rack convection works well (ribs, frozen pizza, Christmas cookies). "Proof" can be used to keep plates warm (not hot) and food warm (mind the germs though, it's well below 175). Usability is great with easy-to-figure out controls for both ovens, dual timers, and dual temp indicators that show actual oven temp after setting the desired temp. Probes work well. BUT - the entire oven seems to be calibrated low (temp dials, probes, etc.) - I have yet to check vs an oven temp, but experience tells me we're off on the whole shebang by about 10 degrees. AND we've had a service call for the oven lights with started blinking when I was removing a rack (vibrating the oven cavity liner). The tech (yes, he's been here three times now) mentioned a bad batch of halogen bulbs so he's send me a *dozen*.

4. Cooktop - another Monogram (OEM DSC w/a few changes that I think are improvements) that does pretty much what it is supposed to and it does it well except as noted below. The simmer is amazing. I had chicken stock on simmer for use with slow-cooked risotto and the liquid just kept "turning" in a 3-quart calphalon pan. Rice left on simmer barely sticks to the bottom of a LeCrueset pot even way after the cooking was supposed to be done. High heat is HOT. For most cooking the burners hold a very steady temperature. The grill isn't a jet engine, but it does function very well for an integrated indoor unit (vs our last Thermador which had about the same BTU rating). I grilled mass amounts of shrimp and chicken at my 60th a few weeks ago with no problem. BUT - like any of the "circular" burner designs there is a "cold spot" in the middle of the burner and on high the flame really spreads out. So much so, in fact, that you can't really use it effectively on less than a 12" pan or large pot. This is disappointing because the reversible grate with the "wok holder" really works - but most of the heat goes up the side and isn't concentrated. Overall a great unit with the exception of trying to use the extra-high heat in pots/pans of a smaller diameter including, unfortunately, a wok. Again - this is not unlike any of the "circular" burner designs. (Note to the Bluestar crowd - I was almost one of you, but in the end, side-by-side, some of the mfg quality/finish issues - though small - pushed me over to the GE. That and the fact that ALL burners can simmer very low and all burners can blast very hot even if it is a spread out flame).

5. Dishwashers - Dead quiet (and I mean quiet), they clean very effectively and that's really what it's all about, and they have versatile racks. The interior lighting that I thought was a gimmick actually turns out to be a very handy feature. After coming off Bosch and then Whirlpool, however, the racks have taken some getting used to and I'm not certain I like them. The design tends to make larger dishes "fall foward". This was really a problem for me until I noticed that one side of the lower rack had two tines sticking up and the other side had three. If the large plates are on the side with two tines the problem nearly disappears (duh-o!). Nearly. The "flop down" wine glass stem holders on the top rack "flop down" a little too easy. We had a service call thinking we had a leaky gasket on one unit. Turns out that there was a factory "upgrade" that fixed a water condensation/draining problem in the vent tube. The swap out fixed the problem - but it was another post-sale service call.

6. Chiller/cooler - IMHO the wine chiller is the best bargain in this type and size of appliance (single zone) if you want a small unit in the kitchen. We never hear the compressor (same for the cooler). It has good capacity, and the drawer-fronts can be removed and the wood can be stained and finished to match the cabinets. We got the beverage cooler with the digital glass front and it's kind of cool (sorry about the pun) and hides the contents until you hit the light button that's cleverly disguised on the top end of the handle. The cooler also holds about a dozen wine bottles (of white, naturally).

Overall - I think that Monogram represents high value in high-end appliances (no, I'm not a dealer). I'm not happy that we've had three visits from our new friend at GE Service - but I will say the experience has been very positive from scheduling through repairs. Not once did I feel like my sanity was being questioned, that I was being unreasonable, or any other negative experiences I've read about on the Forum. Add to that the fact that you can actually negotiate on price and you've got a pretty good package.

Next time (yes, there will be - this house went over the top on over-runs so we'll be at it again in another year or so)...

1. Micro - who knows?
2. Fridge/freezer: we'll check out the Therm/Gagg towers, revisit Monogram, or just get real and drop back to a good "plain old fridge" and put the money in my home theater. Noise will be less of an issue since I'll have a dedicated listening room in the next house. Still, the Monogram interior on the all fridge/freezer is VERY compelling.
3. Ovens - Gagg is in a different price class, but I'll check out the new Gagg 30" combined with their steam oven on top. Almost went the 27"oven/steam oven combo for this house but had to cut back. The Monograms really work well, but Gagg has an appeal. In the end I'll proabably do Monogram again.
4. Cooktop - induction, hands down - probably Gagg. The new units are competitively priced, the Vario units provide the flexibility I want, and they are high powered. I'll probably combine Vario unitsto make two cooking stations (with the teppan-kaki griddle and electric grill) and use two smaller vents. The GE works well but I'm through dis-assembling a cooktop to clean up afer every use. Period. Having cooked on induction, I'm hooked (the Gagg wok unit). And I really want two independent cooking stations so the Vario units are a perfect fit.
5. Dishwaser - if it weren't for the racks I'd do Monogram again in a heartbeat. Another potential big bargain in the high end market, but check out the racks carefully beforehand. That said - I'll just have to wait and see what's available in two years.
5. Wine chiller/bev cooler - I'd do the bev cooler in the kitchen again but if I do another chiller it's an inexpensive Vinotemp from Costco in the laundry room or basement.

Bottom line - I'd do Monogram again in this house. They are good performers (with the noted exceptions), the service is first rate (unfortunately I've had to learn this the hard way), the problems we've had aren't serious and have been corrected on one visit, and for this "class" of appliance the price is right.

As always, if you have specific questions please drop me an email.


Ps - I purposely avoided discussing the vent. We have a 1500cfm exterior fan (Viking/Broan) but last-minute clearance problems meant ditching the Viking liner and going with a smaller Farber unit that would fit. It works, but its all wrong (and very noisy from the small filter/high air movement combo even on low speed).

Pps - Franke sinks ++; thought the SS grates were another gimmick but they really do provide additional functionality that's hard to explain but the experience is positive (for some uses not the least of which is to effectively raise the bottom of a deep sink and saving my back). Franke Little Butler ++. Blanco "stone" finish sink in the laundry room is a --; it's white, I have stains that won't come out, and a couple of small chips from not-excessive or harsh use - and since it's under a granite slab any kind of return/replacement is out of the question. Waste King disposers - not bad, but I'll do Insinkerator the next time (as in the past). Top of counter mounted "air switches" for the disposals are a nice touch and don't cost an arm and leg.


clipped on: 12.13.2007 at 09:35 pm    last updated on: 12.13.2007 at 09:35 pm

Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

posted by: jomarn on 06.23.2006 at 11:01 pm in Appliances Forum

I have made all of my appliance decisions (for two kitchens--one for us, and one for a unit we're selling) except our wall oven and induction cooktop, but the latter is a topic for another thread. I have been trying to decide on these for months and I'm not getting anywhere. I'm running out of time!

The only place we can put our microwave is stacked over the wall oven. We're considering several options, but can't decide which way to go.

I think the most important things to me are even cooking, a good-sized broiler element, and value for the price.

Here are the three options I'm currently considering and some thoughts on each:

Miele MasterChef oven with GE Monogram Advantium
MasterChef is gorgeous
MasterChef feature is pretty cool
I love the way the door stays where you put it
Good-sized broiler element
Everyone seems to love both the MasterChef and the Advantium
Not sure I'll use the MasterChef features much (old dog, new trick thing)
Not sure I'll use the rotisserie much, but I might
Despite their similar looks, I'm not sure the Advantium will look okay above the Miele, but Miele's speed cook oven is way overpriced and gets poor reviews here
Miele oven is expensive

Dacor oven with matching convection microwave
I can't even break down the pros and cons because I'm completely confused about the various Dacor oven models. Saleswoman showed us the top of the line, but I wonder if we'd be just fine with the old Millenia. But, it doesn't have the rotisserie, for one thing. This seems like a much more reasonably priced option if we go with the Millenia model, and their micro convection oven is reasonably priced compared to the Miele. Would we miss the features of Dacor's higher end models--or of the Miele or Wolf?

Wolf oven with matching convection microwave:
One salesperson said the Wolf oven price was similar to MasterChef, another said it was more. I didn't pin them down, and Wolf doesn't list prices on the Internet, so I can't confirm either statement at this hour. Does anyone know?
Wolf pros include:
Double convection fans for even cooking, which is important to me
Pretty blue interior, which shouldn't even enter into the equation
Convection micro seems pretty reasonably priced for Wolf
Not as sleek-looking as Miele, but I still like the look
Door is really heavy, and I'm not sure I like the slow opening feature
Doesn't have an automatic (i.e, MasterChef-like) menu feature, but not sure whether I'd use that anyhow.

We may put a warming drawer on the bottom of the stack. We love the smooth operation of the Miele, but didn't try the Wolf or the Dacor because we weren't really seriously considering it while we were in the store. We also have the option of putting the WD under the cooktop.

How do I make this decision? The pro and con lists don't help all that much because not everything carries the same weight!


clipped on: 06.30.2007 at 09:10 pm    last updated on: 06.30.2007 at 09:10 pm

Double Wall Ovens -- Advice Please!

posted by: trainz on 06.09.2007 at 03:10 pm in Appliances Forum


I am looking for advice on 30" double wall ovens. I am considering Miele, Thermador, Wolf and GE Monogram.

Does anyone have advice with Thermador ovens -- pro vs. masterpiece? Ge trivection or Thermadors "Master Chef"? Is Miele worth the money? I like Thermador, but am concerned abouth their repair history -- has it improved?

Thank you for your help!


clipped on: 06.10.2007 at 10:20 pm    last updated on: 06.10.2007 at 10:20 pm

RE: Dishwasher HELP! Dont know what I am looking for!! (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: carolinawren on 06.05.2007 at 08:14 am in Appliances Forum

We recently replaced a GE Triton dishwasher with a BOSCH SHE66C05UC, their top of the line model with all the bells and whistles. What a dissapointment! After having used a GE Triton for 3 years (replaced because it was loud) I was suprised at how few dishes the BOSCH could hold. Oh the BOSCH is quiet and cleans dishes very well, so did the GE, but if you don't wait for awhile after the cycle is over your dishes will be wet. I found I had to run the BOSCH twice a day to do the same amount of dishes. The silverware baskets are tiny! I could not fit my dinner plates and salad plates side by side without them overlapping.

I suggest you go to Sears and check out the GE Profile Model PDW9980NSS.
It is the same as the old GE I had except that it is SS on the inside and has a better sound package. I am turning in my BOSCH today as a matter of fact. Sears will let you return an appliance under 30 days for a small fee. I can't wait to load it up.



clipped on: 06.06.2007 at 10:09 pm    last updated on: 06.06.2007 at 10:09 pm

Ordered Miele Diamante...should have gotten Optima instead?

posted by: hest88 on 05.19.2007 at 10:14 pm in Appliances Forum

Well, after tons of research I thought I'd end up with either a Kenmore Elite, an Asko, or the LG. So, took my DH applicance shopping...and he loved the Miele!!! The salesman said that the Diamante was one of the their most popular Mieles, and at the time I didn't think spending $150 or so dollars for a different lower basket and the Vario temperature settings and some of the other bells and whistles, but I keep reading Optima reviews and wondering if we should change our order. Hmmmm...

We have no kids, so we don't need huge wash loads, but we wash deep noodle bowls quite a bit more than plates, so of course now I'm thinking that upgraded lower basket might end up being a decent option. Or maybe I should just breathe and stop agonizing?


clipped on: 06.01.2007 at 08:59 pm    last updated on: 06.01.2007 at 08:59 pm

Double Ovens: Miele vs. Wolf vs. Dacor

posted by: margieb2 on 04.11.2007 at 11:55 pm in Appliances Forum

I thought I was so clear headed when I went today to order my appliances, but alas, I left with more questions.

I was ready to order the Miele Master Chef but there was a Wolf floor model on sale for $500 less than the Miele. On the other hand, for $700 more than the Miele I could get the new Dacor with the infrared broiler. What's a girl to do? I know I can't go wrong with ay of them (especially compared to my 20 year old GE's).

I figure by going with the Dacor or the Wolf I give up the Rotisserie. But would I really use that feature after having to clean up after it? I don't think I care about the Master chef features per se. Is the broiler on the Dacor worth $700 more? (We do a lot of broiling in the winter). Or should I just go for the least expensive of the 3 and get the pretty blue interior? Have I missed any important considerations?


clipped on: 06.01.2007 at 08:56 pm    last updated on: 06.01.2007 at 08:56 pm

RE: Kitchenaid Ovens - Problems when cleaning?? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: kingly69 on 02.13.2007 at 02:19 pm in Appliances Forum

feb 13 2007: add me to the frustrating and frustrated parade. i have a 18 month old KA free standing gas range and oven-- model KGRA806PSS. the thermal fuse just blew after my wife used the oven clean cycle for the 3d/4th time. luckily we have appliance repair insurance through our gas utility. the repair tech said to use the self clean only occasionally and as little as possible. evidentally this is a widespread problem and not just with kitchen me at


clipped on: 02.13.2007 at 02:55 pm    last updated on: 02.13.2007 at 02:56 pm

RE: help with stainless steel cleaning (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: glass_beads on 10.10.2006 at 06:40 am in Appliances Forum

buy a microfiber dishtowel -- some stores sell microfiber mitts specifically for this purpose. And keep rubbing and rubbing and rubbing. I did the same as you and had a bit of a panic attack when I first tried to clean my fridge -- it was a dull streaky mess. It just took a LOT of buffing with that microfiber mitt. Now I am careful to only put on a little of the ss cleaner -- rub in on with one side of the mitt and then buff it off with the other side of the mitt. It's sort of like polishing shoes with inky black shoe polish -- any polish you put on must be buffed off, so to speak.


clipped on: 01.10.2007 at 05:24 pm    last updated on: 01.10.2007 at 05:24 pm