Clippings by crescent50

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For brutuses ~ Kitchen and family room photos

posted by: newhomebuilder on 05.26.2008 at 04:46 pm in Home Decorating Forum

Here you go. :)

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Fireplace at Christmas:
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Shortly after moving in (mantle supports were suppose to overlap arch trim, with mantle sticking out a little. The way the carpenters fashioned the trim and mantle, makes the whole thing look too narrow.)

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clipped on: 09.09.2008 at 01:07 pm    last updated on: 09.09.2008 at 01:07 pm

granite (Follow-Up #16)

posted by: flyinghigh on 08.20.2008 at 10:03 am in Kitchens Forum

rnmomx2:

The granite is Juparana Gaviota (spelling?). We started with a desire for handcrafted copper sinks. Once we purchased those (along with the faucets) we worked on coordinating the cabinets, granite and lighting. The artist that did the lighting can take your samples and coordinate the colors in the glass. They are one-of-a-kind and we like the fact they are made by a true artisan here in the US (not in China...).

I have put a link to the photo gallery of our kitchen. I sent these photos to the company where we bought the copper sinks and faucets - they gave us a bit of a break for sending them the photos :-) (plus they were fantastic to deal with). You can click on any of the photos and there is detail about all the materials - cabinets, paint, granite, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Photo Gallery

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clipped on: 08.20.2008 at 12:18 pm    last updated on: 08.20.2008 at 12:18 pm

RE: Could you share where... (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: amysrq on 08.14.2008 at 05:28 pm in Home Decorating Forum

I have a PB Westport sectional which was made by Mitchell Gold. It has worn well enough. Usually looks schlumpy because of the loose back cushions. (I prefer tight back for its tidy-factor.) But it is wicked comfortable. You could live on that sofa for a week and be happy! It is slipcovered and could look cleaner if I would just get over my laziness and take it to the cleaners. Good luck shopping.

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 01:01 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 01:01 am

Dining room set

posted by: lauraella on 08.16.2008 at 10:51 am in Home Decorating Forum

Ok, so I finally found a dining room set, yeah! I ordered it last week, and we got the call that it is in! Here is a pic:

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Now here is the dilema. I like the buffet that comes with it but I really wanted one with a hutch. Of course this manf doesn't have one. So I have been looking for a black buffet/hutch from other manf. I was afraid since it was different manf that I wouldn't be able to find one with the cherry that would match.

Here are a few choices.

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This one is by broyhill.

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I really like this one, but DH thinks it is too fancy.

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This one is just OK.

I have always wanted a hutch that I can display my pretties in. Now I can't decide which one I want.

What do you think?

Laura

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 12:47 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 12:47 am

RE: Hard, Clear plastic storage bins (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: glaserberl on 08.17.2008 at 04:57 pm in Home Decorating Forum

Hope that works

Here is a link that might be useful: sidelines

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 12:44 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 12:44 am

RE: Online galleries specifically for window treatments? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: caminnc on 08.18.2008 at 08:01 am in Home Decorating Forum

I like this site for drapes.

Here is a link that might be useful: halfpricedrapes

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 12:42 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 12:42 am

RE: Online galleries specifically for window treatments? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: graywings on 08.18.2008 at 08:00 am in Home Decorating Forum

I like this one.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pate Meadows

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 12:42 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 12:42 am

RE: Family Photo displays (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: ttodd on 06.01.2008 at 03:59 pm in Home Decorating Forum

Rhapsdy - what a wonderful project!!!!!! That's a keeper & a super gift idea for my sister.

Here's my picture wall:

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I opened up my DR table & laid them all out w/in the perimeter & then hung them.

I've seen that there is a kit that you can get w/ everything that you would need including frames and diagram plans for hanging. Candice Olsen has used it a few times on Divine Design.

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 12:39 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 12:39 am

RE: Family Photo displays (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: rhapsdy on 06.01.2008 at 03:26 pm in Home Decorating Forum

I just finished working on this kind of project for my parents! We redid their hallway with two large framed displays of family photographs, old and new. Below is the link to my blog which documented the progress, but also here are two of my mock ups I did on the computer that helped me figure out which size prints, frames, and wall words I needed! :)

Also, here is a link to my flickr album documenting the entire process:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55463415@N00/sets/72157603706869925/

Be sure to show us your final project when you finish it! :D

Here is a link that might be useful: link to my blog documenting the hallway display

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 12:39 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 12:39 am

RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #49)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.17.2008 at 11:55 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am meeting the the KD tomorrow to discuss my ideas and plans and get a better look at the cabinets. Then after that, we are off for 2 weeks to vacation at the beach- Woo Hoo! No computer access so I am sure I will be craving GW but maybe some fun in the sun will get my mind off the details for a bit.

Can't begin to thank you all enough for your patience and help. I'll look forward to reading about everyones progress when I get back and by then, I'm sure I'll have a million more questions:)!

Thanks again- Happy Summer!

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #47)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.17.2008 at 07:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

I do think the shape of the island that I suggested isn't very Old World. I do think of hefty and rectangular for that...But it depends on how far into the style you want to go. You can incorporate elements of the style without going 'whole hog,' if that appeals to you.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #46)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.17.2008 at 01:23 am in Kitchens Forum

Rhome-
The visuals were great and I can't wait to see your space. i saw on another post that painting is almost done- very exciting. I must say that I am drawn to the shots that have the contrast color hutch centered on the fridge wall and the dark red color looks great. I'm thinking that my 36" landing zone could look somewhat similar. The more I look at it, the more I am convinced that layout is more fitting for the overall look I want and really gives me a chance to make it "furniture like" but of course I am willing to listen to other opinions and ideas:)

The black cook top area is really appealing too- maybe that would be nice to incorporate for the table and or message center area since they are out of the main area of the kitchen. It might also help keep the island and table from competing with one another.

Remodelfla- if you can think of who did the red undertone with distressed black, I would love to see it.

So what does anyone else think about he shape of the island?

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #45)

posted by: remodelfla on 07.16.2008 at 08:52 am in Kitchens Forum

I think you can keep the curved island and still have the "old world" furniture appeal. If you do it in a distressed finish (someone somewhere wrote how the did a red undertone and rubbed thru distressed black finish over it) with a wood top or soapstone; you'll achieve your goal. You can still add bun feet, corbels, etc.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #44)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.16.2008 at 08:28 am in Kitchens Forum

sunnyd-
Funny you should mention the island shape- I was so excited to show my husband the 3D wall drawings Rhome did and the first thing he said was " I thought you wanted an island that looked like a big, old table." I guess this is why I was drawn to cubby14's island (rectangular with corbels and thick legs at the seating end). Anyway, he really seems to like the seating on the refrigerator side so I am really going to have to consider that. That curved island just seemed appealing to me and seemed to solve the seating issue. Oh well- more to think about!

Double ovens are definitely staying on the refrigerator wall (husband:)) but I think that by doing an unfitted cabinet design with a display area with glass/shelving in between ovens and refrigerator, I can still get an "old world" furniture feel. I like your idea of a different color and was considering mocha cream (which I plan for the island and mantle) but after looking at Rhome's pictures - I really like the distressed black or maybe even a terra cotta kinda red color.

With the message center moved down to the eating area of the room, I think I will have some great options for giving this piece a real furniture feel- maybe even put legs on it and have it match the buffet/pantry area.

Again- thoughts and opinions are appreciated. I love hearing all of the different ideas that people come up with?

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #43)

posted by: sunnyd_2008 on 07.15.2008 at 09:38 pm in Kitchens Forum

Use those dished for color inspiration
Your island design doesn't say "Old World" to me, it looks too contemporary
Rectangular with posts or corbels on ends to make it look like an old piece of furniture

I'm thinking unfitted design with the cabinets
not long expanses of cabinetry
Your wood hood is a good start
Panels on the appliances where neccessary
I had suggested moving your Oven to the other side of your kitchen to the right of your sink, down towards the french doors
It would look like a separate cabinet piece of furniture,
dress it up, flush toe arch design perhaps
raised above your other cabinets
The refrigerator wall could fit a pantry and a glass buffet area
do the buffet in a different finish, put your dishes on display there
Take a look through some magazines for color combos
with cream and cherry you could add green, black, blue etc.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #42)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.15.2008 at 09:07 pm in Kitchens Forum

This might save some time. Your fridge oven wall is a lot like mine, so I thought I'd give you the link to a photobucket album I have that shows a lot of the ideas I tried for my wall. It's not in your colors, of course, but you might see something that clicks with you; that you might be able to adapt or change a bit for your kitchen. There are 3 pages of pictures showing different ideas. Here is what it looks like today, still needing the lift up door over the oven, the backsplash, and the crown molding. The 'breakfast counter' on the left end is 30"...So you can see that 24" would be very tight. My baking counter, which I think is a very useful size, is 47".

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Here is a link that might be useful: my album with options for my fridge-oven wall

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #41)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.15.2008 at 07:36 pm in Kitchens Forum

I can try to fix the colors later so you can see better in your own vision.

I do think the more broken up setup would fit better with an old-world style. The full wall seems more sleek and contemporary.

I will try a couple of other things.

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clipped on: 08.19.2008 at 12:17 am    last updated on: 08.19.2008 at 12:18 am

RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #40)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.15.2008 at 07:32 pm in Kitchens Forum

Rhome- Can't thank you enough for the pictures- it is so much easier to visualize. Of course now I cannot even begin to choose what I like best. After drawing them, do you have a preference?

The solid wall (set 2) looks a little heavy to me but when you break it up with the glass uppers it is much more appealing. That being said, I still like the drawing (set 1) with the expanded landing space. It keeps the refrigerator in a place I think I like better and makes it seem less obvious (as if you could hide a 48" ss refrigerator). Actually, you can with panels but that is a whole other discussion:)

I will be curious to see what others think looks best.

FYI- I am looking for an old world feel in the kitchen for lack of a better description. Raised panel furniture style cabinetry in a warm cherry with contrasting pieces (island and/or mantle) in a mocha cream. Sink will be a 36" apron front- possibly bronze and I am drawn toward ORB lighting fixtures and accessories . I have a great set of bowls/dishes that my husband and I got in Italy when we were lucky enough to visit Tuscany a few years ago. The colors are warm and muted and I am envisioning a darker paint color on the walls and darker granite- maybe something similar to Tropical Brown. Floors will be 3" hardwood (medium stain) and most windows/doors will have transoms. The FR that will be off the kitchen will have 14" coffered ceilings and a full wall of windows (with window seat) and built in cabinetry around the fireplace.

I hope that detailed and long (sorry!) description gives you a better idea of my "inspiration." Can you tell how excited I am??!!

Anyway- thanks again- can't wait to hear more ideas....

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RE: fridge wall renderings (Follow-Up #39)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.15.2008 at 02:10 pm in Kitchens Forum

Just as a start or an idea you can see. (The angled ones get a little distorted. The straight on shots are more accurate)
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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #38)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.15.2008 at 01:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am torn...Because I love whole tall walls, but now that you've made that counter a more useful size and in better scale to the rest, I can see that being great, too. I think it was the 24" I thought would look tight and too small before.

I will try to do some 3D walls for you a little later. Not sure what look you're going for, but I'll choose something generic.

My 2 cents about a couple of other issues you brought up...I prefer sliders to dbl French because of the lack of door swing...although they're not considered as 'high end,' I guess.

The other thing is that I don't think I'd want to match the island top to the table. THEN it would look like 2 competing tables. I would keep them as separate entities with their own identities. That said, now that I look, my kitchen table and my island have similarly color tops, so I have to eat my words! But the table is round, the top is only about 3/4" thick while the island is rectangular and the top is 3". Also, the table has a dark, more delicate pedestal, while the island is hefty and will be cream colored...so they don't really connect. Also see mamadadapaige's kitchen for great juxtaposition of island and table...both wood, but separate 'personalities.'

Fridge wall pictures coming soon...

Here is a link that might be useful: mamadadapaige's kitchen - see table about 2/3 down

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #37)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.15.2008 at 11:36 am in Kitchens Forum

Thanks Angela for the thoughtful response. I am going to try and play around with the island a little more. The idea of the curve going the other way seems interesting- unfortunately, your picture did not come through. My husband prefers the seating on the refrigerator side too so I need to give this some more thought. Cabinets at the end- facing out seems logical too- maybe even the microwave too? I don't know why I am having such a hard time visualizing this!

Regarding the table- I only intend to center it with the french doors going to the deck not with the pocket doors going to the family room so that there is a path from FR to kitchen without having to walk around the table. Does that seem right? No actual table yet but the ones I am looking at are custom made to size (canadel.com) and the larger rectangle is available at 42" wide.
I want to do a wood island top and am thinking that it could coordinate with the table.

Great point about the buffers. I have been noticing the same thing when I look at FKB spaces. Exact doorway and window dimensions are not finalized so I am a little uncertain. I will either make sure that they are big enough or will extend cabinets- More storage- Woo Hoo!

One other thing to all you kitchen whizs- what do you think about french door sliders to the deck vs. double doors? I agree that they won't both be used so wonder if the other is more practical.

Any opinions or suggestions?

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #36)

posted by: angela12345 on 07.15.2008 at 08:34 am in Kitchens Forum

I have a question in regards to your island & table seating ... do you ever anticipate times that one or more people would be sitting at the island and also at the table ? I think I would prefer the chairs on the fridge wall side of the island or at least with the curved side curving the other direction. I would not want to sit at the island and have my back to everyone at the table or with the curve having me facing the fridge wall. Plus, that would give you room for 4 stools at the island and even room to make the island a foot longer to 5x9 with 42" aisles at each end of the island. My friend Krista has a kitchen very similar to yours. Often when she has people over for a party, there might be 2 or 3 people sitting at the island and also a couple people sitting at the table facing the island (with their backs to the family room door).

Yes, you would give up access to some storage space, but even with the chairs at the end, you are giving up potential cabinets. You could even have the cabinets on the two ends turned so they are facing out at the ends, then you would only be left with cabinets in the middle facing the stools. I could see this being a place where you store things (especially big things) you hardly ever use. This would be a 5 x 8 foot island with eight 24" cabinet doors facing out direction of arrows and 1 foot bar overhang . . .
/\ /\ /\ /\
< \/ \/ >
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(gardenweb makes it not to scale, but does this make sense?)

Also (just my personal opinion), I would not want the table centered to the french doors to the family room. I would not want to walk into the room facing the table which I would have to go around. I like how you had the end of the table not extending past the edge of the island on Sat, Jul 12, 08 at 11:34 posting.

Do you already own the table ? Are those the actual dimensions ? Most tables are not wider than 42" and very often around 36".

Lastly, how wide are each of the doors & doorways into the kitchen ? It looks like you have at least a 2 foot buffer on each side of each door with no cabinets. Most of the time, I think cabinets go right up to the trim around a door. It might look odd having the cabinets end 2 feet before the door frame edge. And also give up valuable space !!! If you want a little bit of a buffer, I think 6" would look better. I love the look of French doors onto a deck, but truthfully, you practically never use both doors. Most likely everyone will use the side of the door closest to the coffee station, so you should not have to worry about your table blocking the door there. I love how this is coming together for you. You are very fortunate to have such a large space that you can work with !!

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #35)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.15.2008 at 01:44 am in Kitchens Forum

Bmorepanic- I am a terrible artist- each time I remake the kitchen, I screw up something!

The aisles will stay at 48" on the cooktop and sink side and will be 54" on the refrigerator side.

The table will definitely be centered on the french doors. We are still deciding on windows/doors but it will be 8 feet in length which leaves 2 feet on each end from coffee station and wet bar.

I'm a little confused- are you suggesting switching the message center and wet bar? If so, curious as to why you think this would be better.

I really think I am liking the idea of island seating at the end but a few people have mentioned the problem of it looking like two tables next to one another. I don't get that when I picture it but will definitely give it some more thought.

Keep the ideas coming on the refrigerator wall and if anyone has the time or inclination to draw it, I think it would help me to visualize this space a little better.
TIA for any help.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #34)

posted by: bmorepanic on 07.14.2008 at 11:48 pm in Kitchens Forum

Flip flop the ref and the pantry - people cruising the ref won't block the dining room entrance. It'll make it easier to land stuff beside the prep sink with one go. It might be even better to push the oven over too so they aren't asking you to move away from the prep sink.

Somehow, you show a 54" aisle in front of the cleanup sink and a 42" aisle leading from the dining room to the cleanup sink... I'm not against the 54" aisle - I have 60", but I wonder what it will be like ferrying dishes in narrowed aisle when you entertain. It's a place where your plan is different than say Rhome's - your dining room is on the other side of the house!

I am not a big fan of symetry, but I would find it unnerving if the table (and its attendant chandelier or pendants) didn't center on the french doors. Is it possible to have the message-center BAR? From what I could tell, bev refs are 18 to 24" wide - you could have 5.5 feet of cabs in the SE corner? Scoot the french doors east one foot?

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #33)

posted by: sunnyd_2008 on 07.14.2008 at 11:39 pm in Kitchens Forum

I like the location of the refrigerator clear to the range and sink.
Try moving the wallovens over to the right of the main sink down at the end near the doors
You've got plenty of light from your kitchen window and doors, so it won't feel like a "wall"
Put the seating for the island on the back of the island
you've got plenty of room, I think it makes more sense there
makes more room between the table and island and doesn't feel like two tables right next to each other.
Your microwave will fit, possibly a warming drawer and a sink on the end near the cooktop. Looks like you would have about 8'? 18" sink base, 30" microwave, 24" warming drawer, and 24" dish/glass storage, Fit 4 seats.
You can put glass/dish storage on the island and put a nice
glass buffet along the wall to the left of the refrigerator and pantry
maybe incorporate the bar/coffee/snack area there as well.
Easy access to Dining room and family room.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #32)

posted by: remodelfla on 07.14.2008 at 11:15 pm in Kitchens Forum

I really like how your layout incorporates all the suggestions our layout experts have put out there. My only thought would be to switch the tall pantry and kids pantry/countertop/uppers. That way the kids pantry would be on the end and easily accessible. It would also open up that end of the run as it enters the open end of the kitchen. Your main pantry for cooking would therefore be closer to your cooktop and still close to your db. ovens.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #30)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.14.2008 at 10:55 pm in Kitchens Forum

LOL

My island is 4 ft away from my ovens. I never set things on the counter next to the oven, but usually on the island...Just a turn and drop. ;-) After all, you are already about 2 ft away from the oven when you're in front of the open door taking things out. Sometimes I even take things from the oven over to the rangetop or the counter beside it, since I'd rather set hot stuff on the cast iron grates or the stainless counter than on the wood topped island.

I must admit that part of the reason I haven't been setting things on the adjacent counter is because it's full of tile and tools, the hazards of living in a kitchen that isn't finished yet! But I never feel it's a hassle to take things to the island or stove run.

My layout, just in case it helps:

kitchen plan

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- Draft 3 (Follow-Up #28)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.14.2008 at 10:37 pm in Kitchens Forum

Photobucket

Hello all! Thanks for all the great ideas and help with reshaping the island. What do you think of this draft?

I reworked the refrigerator wall to include all the pantry space here and struggled with what order to place things. I'm hoping that a larger (36") expanse of counter with recessed open shelving may work to lighten up this side of the room and give it some visual appeal plus it provides a good landing space for both the refrigerator and the ovens.

I'm reading that some of you like the idea of a whole wall of pantry but do you think the larger counter in the middle could work? The island is 4 feet away so I am worried it won't work for dropping groceries and trays from the oven.

Looking forward to hearing any and all opinions and suggestions for improvement.
TIA.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #26)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.14.2008 at 03:58 pm in Kitchens Forum

No, Bmorepanic, you are not a trouble maker. I have had that same thought about the tiny counter in the middle of all the tall stuff, but people are always making a landing space a big deal, so thought I'd throw it in since she was already planning it. Truth be told, I keep wanting to put the fridge and oven next to each other and use the island as landing for both. I love whole walls of full-ht cabs and such.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #22)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.14.2008 at 10:35 am in Kitchens Forum

Rhome-
I really like the look of the a non-rectangular island- definitely more interesting visually and the seating plan is very functional. Any thoughts on dimensions and placement in the room? I don't want aisles to be so big that it takes several steps to get to it from sink/refrigerator but also don't want a huge "continent" in the the middle of the room?
Who would have thought a kitchen could have too much space?! Keep in mind that the kitchen I am in now is 13x9. I'm not complaining but its' tough to visualize and I really want the room to look warm and inviting.

I like the idea for the refrigerator wall- I'm going to draw it up and see how it looks.

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RE: alternative island shape (Follow-Up #21)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.14.2008 at 01:58 am in Kitchens Forum

An island something like this shape would angle the seating away from the coffee bar and keep the fridge/oven aisle completely clear.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.14.2008 at 01:44 am in Kitchens Forum

That's pretty much the style of island I was thinking of when I saw your last plan. I think keeping the seating at that end is the best idea. Would you consider a non-rectangular island?

As far as arranging the fridge/oven/pantry wall, I think I would make it a high priority to keep the fridge fairly convenient to the cooktop. But I can see why there isn't a clear answer...it seems every lineup I try has advantages and negatives. If it were me, I think I'd leave the broom closet where it is, then fridge, then open counter and upper with kids' items, then oven, then pantry. But I'd be open to suggestions. ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: cubby14's island

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.14.2008 at 12:41 am in Kitchens Forum

What do you think of island seating at the family room end but keeping the island all 1 level?
I just was looking at the FKB and cubby14's island looked like a good option- room for prep sink at cooktop end , a big expanse of space for prep/projects and serving and eating space (& room for 3 stools) that is out of the way of the aisles.
Any opinions?

Sorry I am not sure how to link to the pictures in the FKB

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.13.2008 at 11:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

Just getting back to look at the computer and am excited to read all the good ideas. I love the idea of switching the pantry and message center! Thanks Mahlgold- I am already dreaming of a furniture type of piece that would look great and function even better.

Based on this switch, I need to rethink the line up for the refrigerator wall. The dining room doorway end will definitely be less busy than the other doorway that comes from the foyer (top of basement steps) so I am not too concerned with having a large appliance (double ovens or refrig) at the dining room end of the run but am worried about what works best from a work triangle standpoint.
If I did 30" double ovens closer to DR- would you do pantry area with some counter space and then refrigerator at the end or ovens, refrigerator and then pantry? Is the refrigerator too far out of the way at the end?
Regarding the island- It seems like most people are fans of the prep sink and not of the elevated seating and I'm thinking that I agree but am concerned with where to put the seating area. I feel like the sink side would interfere with the dishwasher and the refrigerator side would block traffic and both would present issues for accessing microwave and storage drawers.
By using the end, I thought people could sit/help without being in the way of cooking and cleaning. So... where do you think I should put seats? By the way, growingplace- I will definitely try to do at least 3 stools- anything to help keep my sanity:)
My husband absolutely wants the microwave in the island. We are looking at the kitchen aid built in for exactly the reasons growingplace mentioned. KA opens like an oven so there is a place to set things down and no height issues. I don't think I am changing his mind on this one (just like he isn't changing mine on the 36' shaw farm sink... ahh compromise- isn't marriage wonderful)!

alku05- thanks for the wet bar picture- we are planning a 30" Kitchen Aid Beverage Center and I am glad to see that 48" will work for this area.

So many questions and so much to think about! I appreciate the help so far- I never would have thought of the pantry/message center switch- this site rocks!

Keep the ideas coming and thanks again.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: bmorepanic on 07.12.2008 at 04:45 pm in Kitchens Forum

A seat that backs into an operating cabinet like that needs to allow for a person to use the cabinet behind the seated person or another person to get by. So about 3.5 to 4 feet.

Seating that backs into an operating set of stuff (like the ref) needs to have about 5 feet of aisle space for people to access the stuff while people are seated (aisle between island and original ref location).

Strangely, to have back to back seating (table chairs and island chairs) takes 5 to 6 feet of clearance between edges where you still want to maintain a walkway.

Easy way to remember is that a seated person takes a minimum of about 3 feet to become seated (chair out, sit down, tuck in) and occupies about 2 feet by 2 feet when seated. There is some slack if more clearance is available to a side for people to use when becoming seated. A "squish by" is about 12 to 15" beyond the seated person. A "pass by" is about 15-18" and a "walk by" is 18-24".

So a six foot aisle maintains a single roughly 24" walkway when both sides are full. People can get into or out of a seat at even a crowded table without asking anyone to move. A five foot aisle has a "squish by" when both sides are full. A four foot aisle means multiple people have to move to allow someone to become seated or leave when both sides are full.

Because we are not all perfect and don't always push our chairs or stools in, with a foot foot aisle, you may end up treating the island and table as a really big "T" shaped island.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #16)

posted by: alku05 on 07.12.2008 at 04:39 pm in Kitchens Forum

Regarding the size of the wet bar area...Most beverage center fridges are 24", not 30". Also you can fit a good roomy-sized prep/bar sink in an 18" cabinet. So you can go as small as 42". However, 48" would be a good size to be sure that the sink isn't too close to the edge.

Although our 48" beverage center isn't free standing, and has no sink, we do find it quite roomy.

Here is a link that might be useful: our beverage center (a bit blurry, but hopefully you'll be able to get the idea)

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: growingplace on 07.12.2008 at 02:40 pm in Kitchens Forum

Sorry I don't have time to read the followups so if I repeat others I apologize. I wish I had time to pore over your design because I love finding solutions to storage and use issues...we are building a house and our kitchen is very different so I can't compare but I do have a few comments. I am basing this on your design and no big changes...

What strikes me first and foremost is the tbd pantry and the message center. I would definitely switch these areas. I think 5 feet is plenty to hold all of your strictly food stuff (you have room for napkins and small appliances and the like elsewhere). For me this would make the other side of the room more aesthetically pleasing. Your eye would not stop on doors that look utilitarian. It would balance the wet bar and look more like furniture. You may want to see the message center and answer phones and such while prepping and cooking where it is but I think you can make the message center more of a design feature and "family center". I picture a decorative chalk board or bulletin board over nice cabinet/desk, maybe family pics around and such. You can use it for lists, chores, charts, messages, helping with homework, etc. Your kids sound youngish. I am the youngest of six (44 now) and I have a terrible memory but I do fondly remember as a kid us taking votes and having lists on our big family chalkboard.

There are a few other things I see in your design that I would like to comment on. First, beware the microwave drawers. They are pretty shallow and eliminate things like Pyrex bowls and taller containers and such. Plus a door microwave in the island means little kids will try to use it more and you have to stoop to get hot stuff out--could be more dangerous. I would move it to a cabinet. A matter of fact, you should try to keep your hot area together. I would put the microwave in that 24" pantry--I have microwave above a drawer with container lids that is above my bowl and container cabinet and above the microwave is another deep cabinet...works well. Then next to that I would put the double oven. You do not want people crossing through to get to the fridge while you are putting something in or out of the oven. Put the fridge closer to the end where people from the table, FR, or deck can come in and get stuff without being in the way.

Thirteen feet with an island in between loses the triangle for sure. I would put a prep sink in the island toward fridge/cooking side. I would also consider losing the bar sink if you have a fridge with water and the prep sink. They don't get much use. Even with that big old 48" fridge though, I would consider a small beverage fridge in bar area. We have one in our walk in pantry now and put all the beer, water, soda in it and it keeps people away from the fridge and makes for a neater, less cluttered fridge. I love it.

One thing I kinda don't like is having your fridge so far from the dishwasher. I am sure that sounds stupid but my reasoning is you want the dishwasher close to the cabinets where you put the things that go in the dishwasher--cups, glasses, plates, bowls. So when you empty the dishwasher everything is close by. But if you go in for a drink or snack you have to cross the kitchen to get the cup or plate to bring to the fridge. Not a huge deal, but one option would be to consider putting your dishwasher on left of sink with spacer and lose your non functioning Lazy Susan (make the cabinet to the left of the stove deep to right---less accessible but functionable), then put the sink where it is then storage then fridge (you could move to a 42" if necessary or smaller cabinet). Then you could still access fridge from all the outside spaces but keep the triangle tighter and have counter next to fridge and storage close to DW. The coffee maker can go on the other side of kitchen. I haven't thought that out so much but it is an idea.

For me functionality comes first and foremost. Who uses what, where, and when. Picture your day and make a path on your drawing showing what happens as your prep and cook and clean and get coffee or snacks or someone comes in. Pretend you go to the store and get things to make chili and bread...bring it all in, put things away, come back two hours later, take things out, get your ingredients together, prep, cook, bake, get out dishes, serve food and drinks, clean up, put leftovers in the container and then fridge, do the dishes, load the dishwasher, empty the dishwasher and at some time or the whole time, have a glass of wine or two, for Pete's sake. Now you will see how your kitchen functions for you.

You said new construction...are you far enough along that the doorways and windows are set for sure? If not, you have even more options.

Well, hope this helps alittle. Oh, and good luck having all those kids and only two island seats:) My kids are 6, 9, and 10 and we will definitely have at least 3 seats:) Let's help keep Mama's sanity.

Mary

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.12.2008 at 01:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

I agree with Malhgold about leaving the island at one level, but I don't think I agree about running the seating on the fridge wall side...at least I wouldn't prefer it. It'd be harder to access the island storage along that side, the stools, empty or filled, would interfere with using the island for baking on the oven side, and I'd like to see a prep sink on the corner toward the fridge. I've seen photos of some great looking islands with a dedicated seating end like you show, but, again, with a continuous counter for nice, big projects and an open, expansive look.

I hadn't thought about the fridge blocking traffic from the dining room if you moved it as I'd suggested...But will there really be a lot of traffic that way? I would see it as more of a problem if that doorway was to the family room. Where does the other doorway between pantry and message ctr lead?

I also think Malhgold had a good idea about moving the pantry over with the kitchen and the message ctr over where the family can access it without being in the kitchen is a good one. Is there a reason you'd placed them as you have them?

PS Any time you'd like to discuss homeschooling or family, you can feel free to email me through 'my page.' :-)

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: malhgold on 07.12.2008 at 12:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am not a big fan of raised height counters on islands. I have one now and can't wait to get rid of it. My vote would be for all one level with a prep sink. Otherwise, you are going to be walking from your frig, across the room to the sink and back to the cooktop. I would also prefer the stools on the frig side. Maybe move the island 6" towards the clean up sink and/or reduce the island to 4 X 8 which I think is still plenty big. You don't want there to be a conflict with the oven doors and someone sitting at the stools.

Have you considered swapping the pantry and the message center? I think it would make more sense to have all the pantry items together. Then you could combine the 24" pantry with the other pantry. Maybe move the double oven down next to the broom closet. By moving the message center it could then maybe be more of a freestanding piece that would aesthetically and functionally better with the kitchen table right there.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout 2- Changes (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.12.2008 at 11:34 am in Kitchens Forum

oops- forgot to insert the drawing. TIA for any help.

kitchen layout 2

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.12.2008 at 11:27 am in Kitchens Forum

What do you think of these changes?
I turned and extended island and added an elevated table with legs for the far end ( I saw this in melis18 FKB space) but maybe a prep sink would be more useful and I could just do seating on the refrigerator side of the island. What do you think?

I kept the aisles the same for sink and refrigerator for traffic and reduced cook top clearance per rhomes suggestion for ease of cooking.

I also reduced the size of the message center and wet bar. Do you like wet bar where it is or against the back wall as in bmorepanic's drawing?

How does the pantry look?

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: bmorepanic on 07.12.2008 at 08:17 am in Kitchens Forum

Small stuff - the message center is misdrawn by a foot? Chair clearance at the very large wet bar?

So, two variants of the same space just for other ideas.


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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.12.2008 at 08:13 am in Kitchens Forum

Rhome-
The window is actually 5+ feet in length. We are still finalizing the window selection and are working with builder to make it a "little special" (his words).
He is pretty creative and when I said I wanted a pocket door between kitchen and family room, I figured it would be plain. He wound up drawing me a beautiful one with glass inserts and a row of transoms across the top so Im excited to see what he comes up with for the kitchen. What do you think about a deep ledge or bay style to use for plants (fresh spices)?

I'm going to draw up the plan with the island turned and think about how it would affect seating- would you put stools on the refrigerator side or sink side or maybe make 1 end an elevated table with stools? I will have to draw it and see.

The idea for the drop zone between the oven and refrigerator sounds great- do you think the refrigerator door opening (& the kids standing in front of it:)) will be an issue closer to the dining room doorway? I was trying to avoid a bottleneck in this main traffic area. We are doing a 48" sxs built in.

Lastly- thanks for the pantry thoughts- I am having a hard time visualizing this area but agree about 3" being too small for walk in.

By the way, I meant to say in my 1st post that I am a preschool/kindergarten teacher by trade (home now with the kids) but have always been fascinated with home schooling and am impressed that you have the patience to do it with your big group. It must be hard but fulfilling work to watch your children grow and learn together. I think children benefit so much from working cooperatively and engaging in projects with their peers. Can you tell how much I loved being a teacher?! OK- back to my new obsession- the kitchen!

Thanks again.

Buehl-WOW! Thanks for such a great list- I printed it and will start making comparisons to what I have planned in my head. I like the idea of imagining myself working in the space. Do you see any glaring issues with my preliminary ideas for storage based on zones?

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.12.2008 at 02:22 am in Kitchens Forum

Wow, you have really been paying attention! I am one of 5 also. :-)

I meant your island could stretch 3 or 4 ft toward the table. 4' aisles are nice and roomy...Most say 42" is good, but with a room this size, you might as well have 48"! I think I might find that a bit far for the aisle between the cooktop and island if you plan to prep on the island. I like to just turn back and forth without too many steps. But, anyway, my island enlarging idea doesn't reduce your aisles.

I would definitely open a 3x6 pantry from the wide side. No room to walk in if you have the door on the 3 ft side. I think that should leave you room to 'step in,' but not really walk in. I think it'd be super with dbl doors.

Maybe put pantry counter in between the fridge and ovens so it can serve as landing space for ovens and fridge? You could also put the microwave in the bottom section of the upper cabinet there, unless you're set on the island location. I find it handy to have the micro near the fridge, and later it'll be handy to be with the kids' snacks, too.

Are you sure you want only a 3 ft or less window?

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: buehl on 07.12.2008 at 01:31 am in Kitchens Forum

Regarding Storage Planning...

Once you've finalized your basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size/configuration of your cabinets and drawers. (The following is a general write-up I've come up with...)

  1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your new kitchen, regardless of where it's stored now...kitchen, basement, dining room, etc.

  2. Next, take the list and group the items according to function. Will they be used during prep? cooking? baking? cleanup? Some items, like pot holders, may belong in two different zones (in this case, cooking & baking). You can either find storage between the two zones or have duplicates and store one in each zone.

  3. Now, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)

  4. The next step depends on the stage you are in the design/order process...

  5. If you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have. So...

    • Identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.

    • Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.

    If you are still in the design phase, you will have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.

    • Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.

    • Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).

    • Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)

    • Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.

You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

This not only helps you to "see" how things will fit, but it also will help when you move back into the kitchen...you won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy "map" for everyone to help find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!

Common Zones, Appliances In That Zone, and Suggestions For What To Store There:

  • Storage--pantry & refrigerator--tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags

  • Preparation--sink & trash--utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books, paper towels

  • Cooking--cooktop/range & MW--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.), paper towels

  • Baking--ovens/range--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins, paper towels

  • Cleanup--sink & DW & trash--detergents, linens, dishes & glasses, flatware

  • Eating--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR--table linens, placemats, napkins, dishes & glasses, flatware

  • Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords

  • Message Center--phones, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard

Less Common Zones:

  • Tea/Coffee Bar--coffeemaker--mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot

  • Pet Zone--feeding area--food, snacks

Commonly Used Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer

NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: crescent50 on 07.12.2008 at 12:41 am in Kitchens Forum

Rhome410- Been reading & admiring your posts for so long- so glad you responded.

To answer your questions:
Lazy Susan- will need to make that adjustment to fit it in.

Trash Pullout- Definitely plan to have one in the lower cabinet next to sink and was thinking if there was space, maybe include one in the wet bar area (good for clearing the dinner table).

Island- Microwave will go in the island and drawers for storage. I thought they would be good for paper products, microwave bowls/dishes and also room for seasonal and serving pieces.
Question about size?- If I went bigger- wouldn't I be making the clearance aisles too narrow? I thought I read that 48" was recommended. Maybe I should turn it the other way? Husband is a good helper and hopefully kids will be too so if I make the island bigger, I will definitely consider a prep sink.
I intend to put a prep/bar sink in wet bar area by the table- would 3 sinks be overkill?

Message Center- I agree that 5 feet may be too much and even noted that I would consider doing 4 feet - less room means less clutter, right?

Pantry- There will be a pantry in the kitchen. The TBD is simply because I am undecided whether a 3x6 would work as a walk in or should a do a long reach in cabinet with double doors? I definitely need to work on this area.

Other- I'm hoping pantry next to refrigerator will serve to keep snacks/dry kid stuff in the bottom and the counter area will be a landing zone for refrigerator and I can use the top for display (open shelves/glass inserts).
Coffee Station will provide more pantry space with a similar set-up. Storage on bottom- coffee maker on counter-display on top.

I have been laying out and making notes on how kitchen supplies would be organized and think that upper cabinets on the sink wall should work. Cups/Glasses in 24" above the trash and Dishes in the 54" (24 & 30) above and next to DW.
Cooking dishes and supplies will go in the upper cabinets that surround the cook top. Spices/sauces in pull outs and foil, wraps, pyrex etc. in lower cabinets on that wall with a large 2 drawer space under cook top for pots and pans.

Sorry this is so long but am curious for your opinion and thoughts and and looking forward to your advice. Reading about your large family always brings a smile to my face- I am one of 5 and both of my parents came from families of 10 children so in my house- the more the merrrier! Thanks again.

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RE: Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: rhome410 on 07.12.2008 at 12:07 am in Kitchens Forum

A base cabinet lazy susan goes 3 ft in each direction. As you can see in your drawing, at 2' there is no way to get into it.

Will you want a trash pullout? I love ours. We have a dishwasher on each side of our sink, so the trash is across the aisle in the island, and it works well that way.

You don't show storage in the island. What do you plan there? You actually have enough room for almost twice that island! Do you plan to be in this house a long time? When the kids are older and helping in the kitchen, or if hubby helps out now, you might appreciate a prep sink. We have one in our 4x5 island, but especially if you make yours longer, you'd have plenty of room with no sacrifice of space.

That's a lot of message center...I'd prefer more pantry. Do you have any storage for extra items and any bulk storage anywhere else? I noticed the "Pantry TBD." Does that mean you plan something in that spot, or you are going to try to figure out where to put a pantry?

What about a microwave?

Not a bad start, overall.

Best wishes!

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Advice Needed on Kitchen Layout- 1st Draft

posted by: crescent50 on 07.11.2008 at 11:28 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hello all!
I have been lurking forever and learning so much from this forum. We are getting ready to start new construction and have been obsessing over the plans- so many inspiration kitchens and great ideas on this site!
Finding TS Divers floor plan yesterday has finally prompted me to put my ideas on paper for your consideration. Warning- I am a complete newbie so accept my apologies for my ignorance but I am learning:)

A little background: We are a family of 4 ( kids 4 & 1) and plan to have another if all goes well :) Our kitchen will be 28x18 including the eat in area.
I am definitely not a gourmet cook but like to prepare meals for family/friends and entertain casually often. I come from a big family and the kitchen was always the heart of our home. I am looking to create a happy, comfortable space where I can cook, the kids can do projects and friends can visit for a drink and something to eat.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions. Sorry about the drawing- my attempts at using software are not going so well but I am pretty impressed that I figured out how to upload a picture on the 1st try. Hope it is clear enough. Let me know if I can answer questions or provide details.
I am excited to hear your ideas and suggestions.

kitchen layout 1

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Does Window Covering Fabric in Adjoining Rooms have to Match?

posted by: jan_in_wisconsin on 04.12.2008 at 08:43 pm in Home Decorating Forum

Everyone,

Thanks so much for the help with my other thread on finding a fabric for my kitchen valance and dining roman shades. It looks like a fabric with a black background is definitely the best choice.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the "rules" are for window covering fabrics in adjoining rooms. Do they have to match/coordinate in some way? Our dining area opens into our greatroom, so I'm wondering how my choice of fabric in the dining area will affect what we eventually choose for our great room. The two areas are separated by casings/woodwork, and the Dining and Kitchen areas are SW Flower Pot, while the Great Room is BM Wilmington Tan.

If I go with the floral print with the black background in the kitchen/dining areas, including the patio doors, can I use a mid to deep tone brown colored drapery in the great room?

I did a search through the archives on this topic, but didn't come up with anything. Guess I'm an idiot - lol.

Here are some pictures:

Kitchen

Great Room Fireplace

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Tsdiver's Layout (pic)

posted by: tsdiver on 07.10.2008 at 06:09 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm here, I'm here! Sorry about the delay in responding to your incredibly kind questions and requests. I decided to start a new thread since there were several active threads asking about my kitchen layout.

First off... here is a close rendition to the final layout.

Photobucket

A few items to mention:

Approximate dimension of the kitchen is 13 feet by 19 feet.

The prep sink was supposed to be on the other side of the island near the refrigerator, but due to structural/plumbing issues, the only location it could be is where it currently resides, across from the main sink.

The chalkboard looking thing in the pictures is a dumbwaiter. This is a second story kitchen that opens up to a great room and the front door. The dumbwaiter goes to the garage. This is a manual dumbwaiter, not electric. It operates by a rope/pully system that has a fifty pound counterweight attached. It takes very little effort to move the car.

Many of the cabinet dimensions are not as depicted, but are fairly close. Purely by accident (read that as miscommunication), I ended up with two pull-outs flanking the range. We lost the vertical storage that was to be next to the super susan due to cabinet issues.

Well, anyway, those are just a few of the "not as depicted" issues.

The kitchen is not in the Finished Kitchen Blog because it is not done yet. We had a major backsplash issue that has now been pushed to the back burner. Since this is a whole home remodel, we are now focusing our attention to getting the project through our city's final inspection. Then we can move forward and bring in utilities etc. Hopefully, we will be able to actually move in by the end of summer. Whether or not the backsplash will be completed before we move in is anyone's guess.

I cannot tell you where everything is going to be stored, or how it will be utilized. I can tell you that right now, in our postage stamp sized kitchen, I cannot open the refrigerator and the dishwasher at the same time, so I am looking forward to spreading out a bit.

A special not to those of you who are currently planning your kitchens:
This kitchen layout is a product of the generous time and efforts of the Kitchen Forum Members. I used a software program and applied every single opinion or option that was offered, no matter how I initially felt about it. I believe the range was located on every wall at one time or another. I had the main sink on a windowless wall, I had a rectangle island, I even had a "cantry" (shallow cabinet for cans). The bottom line is try everything!!!! Now is the time to do it!

Hope this helps!

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.10.2008 at 11:59 pm    last updated on: 07.10.2008 at 11:59 pm