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RE: I also need the stainless steel sink cleaning trick (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: kaijutokusatsu on 12.23.2012 at 05:45 pm in Kitchens Forum

This is my clipping from sherrilynn:
about any stainless steel sink. I recently had a huge compliment from my brother, a builder of high end homes. He was very impressed at how good my sink always looks. He is not a fan at ALL with SS. He prefers porcelain, which chips.

I asked him why he was so impressed with my sink and hates SS? It was because he has had to replace multiple high end sinks before closing because a workman or someone would have used a new homeowners SS sink and caused a 'scratch' in the bottom of the sink. The new homeowners would insist on a brand new sink before they would close.We all know that we can tolerate the damage that we do to our stuff, but not anyone else! When you spend well over a $1,000 to $1,800 for a sink, of COURSE you want it to be unblemished!

Well, I told him my 'secret' to keeping my 12" deep single basin Franke sink looking good. I've used this 'method' on ALL of my sinks and I just love it! My sink glows because of the 'patina' that it now has...and yours can, too. The finish looks better each time you use my method, too.

I use my sink! I also have a large family that I cook for and use some commercial size, heavy pans. Guests sometimes want to help in the kitchen, or teens, and they bang up the bottom, scratching the sink, and it will look just awful when they're done. They always apologize because they think they've ruined my sink. Never fear. I can 'fix' it in as little as 3 minutes from start to finish.

I've now trained my teens on how to help me maintain a good looking sink. AND if they scratch it, they restore it! It's that simple.

Here's what I do. About every other day, I use Bar Keepers Friend and one of the green scrubby pads that you can buy just about anywhere. It will keep average use to your sink 'maintained' between 'restoration' cleanings.

When there are scuffs and deeper scratches in the sink, I use sandpaper to wet-sand the metal in different grades of paper to restore the sinks. I prefer the black 'wet or dry' sandpaper by Norton that you buy at HD. I already have about 3" squares in multiple grades already cut out and in a baggy under my sink, so I'm ready when I need to 'do this'.

I start with about 150 grit working on the problem areas when I get to them, then work up to at least a 400 grit. I use small circular pattern and overlap all of my work. I never just 'rub' a scuff or scratch in a straight pattern; I always blend my work.

I start in the furthest back left corner and work across the back of the sink moving left to right, just as you would work if you were writing on lined paper. I do the entire sink bottom, then move to the sides. I start with 150 grit paper, then change to 220, then 320, then 400. I rinse the sink after each grit paper is used. Sometimes I use a little soap or BKF depending on my needs so I can move faster with the paper. Once you try it, you will understand what I mean.

I finish off with a good soapy rinse with a rag, then apply a 'finish' of Franke Inox cleaner or a wiping coat of vegetable oil. I have even used Rain-X to help repel spots. I'm just out of it right now and have been using up products I have under the sink. I use 'whatever' to just help the sink repel water right down the drain a.s.a.p..

My brother now had one of his guys using my method on their Franke sinks before final walk thru before closing on a new home. Guess what? They're not having to replace sinks anymore.

After you clean your sink a few times, your sink will start to gain a beautiful patina and smoothness to the finish and you will start to love stainless steel. I also use this method on my $10,000 Thermador Range top. It glows. I just love it.


clipped on: 12.23.2012 at 09:51 pm    last updated on: 12.23.2012 at 09:51 pm

RE: Corner Suzan or Flush wall cabinet? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: buehl on 08.14.2011 at 12:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

Do you mean a blind corner cabinet as an upper cabinet? If so, those are worse than base blind corners. It's almost impossible to access things in the "blind corner" in an upper cabinet...unless you have very, very long arms and are tall so (1) you can actually reach inside the corner from the outside and (2) see what's there.

My MIL has blind corners in her kitchen...both upper & base and she doesn't use them...unless something falls back into them! She hates them!

Since you're wondering about a corner cabinet, have you considered what I think is called an "easy reach" that has a 90-degree cut (rather than diagonal)? For upper cabinets, I think they're the best option overall. I have a couple of pictures I saved for the future of BluBird's corner easy-reach cabinet.


BluBird's Kitchen (Small)


BluBird's Kitchen (small)

I think hers was built with one side wider than the the other but with a divider. They also are available 24" x 24" with a 12" opening on each side.


clipped on: 06.19.2012 at 07:50 am    last updated on: 06.19.2012 at 08:01 am

RE: Corner Sink and Pull-Out Trash (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: petra_il on 05.19.2008 at 03:30 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have a corner sink too and it was the best decision for my space. Mine is recessed a little bit and I have absolutly no problem accessing DW next to it. I can lookup all sizes if you want me to, it's been a while since the kitchen was completed so it's not in my head any more (I'm in a backsplash waiting mode).

I don't have a pullout trash so can't help on that. Here are couple pictures that show you the set up and how it looks all together. DW is on the left.

detail of recessed corner for sink

Countertop is in ...


clipped on: 05.30.2012 at 07:01 pm    last updated on: 05.30.2012 at 07:01 pm

RE: Pantry- Pull Out Vs. Door with Attached Storage (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: northcarolina on 05.30.2012 at 12:35 am in Kitchens Forum

Yes, that's it exactly, they are all drawers and the door attaches to two of them. This is Ikea, so it might not apply to your situation... it's sold as components and you choose how you want it configured. You buy the cabinet box and door, those are the same either way; then you decide if you want fixed shelves or drawers (DRAWERS!). The drawers and their slides and soft close things are the same no matter how you attach the door. Then if you want the door to be on hinges with pullouts behind it, you buy the hinges; if you want the door to be attached to the drawers, then you get the hardware for that. You buy however many of the "interior" drawer fronts as you need (the door becomes the drawer front for the top and bottom ones if you attach the door like I did). OR you can make the whole stack be separate normal-looking drawers (like in a base cabinet only all the way up), or you can use a shorter door with separate drawers or open spaces above or below, or... you get the idea. Anyway, here are pictures so you can see what I am talking about.



clipped on: 05.30.2012 at 09:47 am    last updated on: 05.30.2012 at 09:47 am

RE: Help me re-do kitchen plan (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: lavender_lass on 05.16.2012 at 11:57 am in Kitchens Forum

Congrats! I'm so glad your husband liked your plan so much...and I think it will work so much better, in your space :)

Just in case your cabinet guy doesn't share your probably have this already, but here's Circuspeanut's corner prep sink. It really does look great in the corner!

From Kitchen plans


clipped on: 05.16.2012 at 03:45 pm    last updated on: 05.16.2012 at 03:45 pm

RE: Kitchen cabinets--drawers vs tall pull-out units? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: jakabedy on 05.05.2012 at 10:46 am in Kitchens Forum

Like buehl said, there is the hybrid option of the tall pull-out with the door attached. It can have smaller drawers inside, which could be adjustable. Although I did the bulk of my kitchen with deep drawers, I did put in two full-height pull-out units. One holds the KA mixer (too tall to fit in a standard drawer, couldn't give up reach-in-pantry space, and didn't want it on the counter) and the other holds a pet food bin. So if you have something extra tall, consider where you'll store it.

As rosie said, I think the thin pull-outs are best used for vinegars and other bottles. But you may not want it right next to the stove because of the heat. As for spices, I have mine in a top drawer next to the stove. I like it MUCH better than if I had put a spice pull-out. I couldn't imagine squatting down to see what was on the bottom tray of the pull-out.



clipped on: 05.10.2012 at 08:20 am    last updated on: 05.10.2012 at 08:20 am

My new finished kitchen! pic heavy

posted by: cindyandmocha on 08.02.2010 at 08:53 pm in Kitchens Forum

Warning, this is long and pic heavy. I am soooo glad to finally be back in the kitchen.

Here's a slide-show of my old ratty kitchen that I HATED... Kitchen/?albumview=slideshow


And here are some pics of the new kitchen. I love it. There are still a couple of finishing touches to be completed, but I'm getting there.

View from the Den entry


Ladylux Plus Faucet doubles as a prep faucet and pot filler with the 360 degree swivel, but its too close to the sink edge. So we're replacing this faucet with the Ladylux 3 prep faucet.

View toward the den. Am loving the double ovens from KA with Steam Assist.



I am loving all of the drawer storage. Also, what looks like 2 doors on the island to the right of the cooktop is actually a double trash pullout. No more doggies surfing for snacks.


Love the drawers under the cooktop, and enjoying cooking with propane on the new Miele cooktop. Now I need some decent knives.


Everyone wondered what a "mockett" was..


I worried about switching to a single bowl instead of doubles, but this is a great change for us.


The Miele coffee-maker is one of my favorite things now. We got a floor display model pretty cheap. Also the 2nd drawer down is bread storage.


Over the oven dividers are great..


Loving the pull-out corner unit.


This was our huge find - the GE Monogram fridge at the Sears outlet for less than half price. The microwave came from Amazon Warehouse.


The pantry idea was the best idea we had. We got a ton of space back by going between the wall studs. The unit only eats up 3 inches of floor space, but is 7 inches deep when open.

only 3 inches from wall


2 soup cans deep

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen/?albumview=slideshow


shallow pantry cabinet
clipped on: 04.20.2012 at 10:55 am    last updated on: 04.20.2012 at 10:56 am

RE: help with desk/drop zone cabinets (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: sidney4 on 04.16.2012 at 07:35 am in Kitchens Forum

Our drop zone is counter height.....the space under the counter has a tilt out waste basket and a cupboard for flash lights, keys, etc. We throw away junk mail as soon as we enter the house. I am still thinking about some sort of cork board to put on the wall above the counter but I wanted something that is a little more decorative than cork and I just haven't gotten around to it.

Here is mine:

Uploaded from the Photobucket Android App

Uploaded from the Photobucket Android App


clipped on: 04.16.2012 at 09:02 am    last updated on: 04.16.2012 at 09:02 am

RE: Would you do a kitchen with all drawer base cabinets? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: jakabedy on 04.09.2012 at 02:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

My kitchen has 20.5' of base cabinets. It is broken down like this:

1) 36" sink base (doors only)
2) 30" pull outs with adjustable interior drawers (for stand mixer, pet food bins, garbage bins, etc.)
3) 180" of three-drawer base cabinets (two deep drawers and a shallow drawer(s) on top.

Here's a photo of how my pull-out cabinet works (the closed cabinet to the left is identical to the open cabinet, but has two shallower internal drawers rather than one deep one). The drawer front is the entire height of the cabinet and attached to the bottom drawer. Interior drawers can be adjusted.


I have not regretted this breakdown at any point. Under the sink base I have items in baskets that I can easily pull out. Given the layout of our plumbing (up from the floor through the slab), trying to put drawers there would have been a hassle, and would have required a lot of customization for questionable utility in the end. The two pull-out cabinets fit the things I needed them to fit. Everything else -- EVERYTHING ELSE -- is happy in the drawers. That includes pots, pans, baking dishes, glasses, plates and bowls, tupperware, etc.

I only have one upper cabinet in the whole kitchen, over the fridge. Stored up there are large mixing bowls, small aseldom-used appliances (Foreman grill, little crock pot, etc.) and the glass cake stand and big plastic cake carrier. Cookie sheets/cutting boards are stored on edge in the pantry.

The only thing I didn't have to factor in was stemware. We have a wet bar and all the stemware lives in there. I would look for feedback from folks who have stemware in drawers -- that is the one thing I wouldn't be too sure about.


clipped on: 04.10.2012 at 04:01 pm    last updated on: 04.10.2012 at 04:01 pm

RE: Under-cabinet lighting, pt. 2 (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: jscout on 01.09.2012 at 12:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have LED strips from superbrightleds dot com that I really like. The color is whiter than incandescent (maybe a tad more than halogen) but warmer than fluorescent. It's a thin light bar, thin power supply and a small touch dimmer. Here are a few pictures.

Installation - Lights off:

Installation - Lights on:

Front View with moulding at eye level:

Angled view of lights:

Here is a link that might be useful: Super Bright LEDs


clipped on: 01.09.2012 at 12:56 pm    last updated on: 01.09.2012 at 12:56 pm

Kitchen Finished for now - lots of photos

posted by: prospect711 on 11.12.2011 at 04:40 pm in Kitchens Forum

Our little natural cherry and soapstone kitchen posed for some not-quite-formal photos today.












Cabinets: custom natural cherry Amish made
Counters: Beleza soapstone
Backsplash: Slate corinth from The Tile Shop
Floor: existing vinyl from Lowes
UCL: LED strips installed by DH
Bar stools: Trica Swirl


clipped on: 11.16.2011 at 05:23 pm    last updated on: 11.16.2011 at 05:24 pm

RE: Delta or Grohe pull down faucets? (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: davidro1 on 09.06.2011 at 09:57 am in Kitchens Forum

People seem to want to pay up to $399 but resist going to a higher price. OTOH, you use a kitchen faucet 10 to 20 thousand times in decade. (my estimation of number).

A kitchen faucet is the one thing that doesn't fit into the decor by hiding along with the other lines and trim. It stands out. It doesn't blend in. It's round tubing, bent into a praying humanlike shape. I think it is worth it to spend more.

" Does anyone have them, do you like them and how have they held up? "
" I was leaning toward the Grohe ... I think this style has an on off button for the spray ..."

Call or email Grohe about getting a model with a spray button that stays on spray once you press it.

Call or email Delta about getting a model with a spray button that stays on spray once you press it.

Some of the spray "wands" have a button you press once, others have a need-to-hold-down button. A spray button that stays on spray once you press it is a feature that I would like to have, and I would want to know about it on the main page describing the faucet. But, all too often, this is detailed feature information that the marketing people everywhere don't highlight on any web site of any faucet maker. I've heard them say to me that they prefer to hold back on this information so that the customer has to ask; it helps the showroom salesperson add value and play a more meaningful role. Hmm this might have been true back in the day when glossy brochures were the only text information available. The world has changed since then: participant discussion forums are now the key to getting informed. Terms vary. One fancy faucet maker has a term "mousseur" for a certain kind of wand, and they don't apply that term consistently across the line (!).

Grohe is consistently high quality, and Grohe supports you if a problem happens.
Delta is consistently medium quality, and Delta supports you if a problem happens.
I may be too generous towards Delta. But, millions have them. Grohe is well known worldwide.

Asia is where all the parts are made. There is no point trying to "manufacture" faucets inside the boundaries of any country, although it is possible to do some of the assembly (and call it made here). In Australia faucets often cost less, because it is too easy for any hardware store buyer to get on a plane and go negotiate face to facem and bring back a small batch (smaller than e.g. 5000 units). We are too far away, and nobody seems interested to place orders to bring small batches halfway around the world after using photos or video conferencing as their only way to see what they are talking about.


Chrome can be very good looking when a high end manufacturer makes it.
Chrome in medium quality faucet (the kind you can see in a hardware store) can be less than attractive.

Stainless steel plate finishes can vary in hue from one maker to another. There is a range, from industrial gray to attractive light nickel to beautiful.

If quality and looks are both important to you, broaden your search to compare KWC faucets. See them in person. Livello is available in 100% solid stainless steel; Ava in plated. A beautiful bent praying shape can be had in the Eve and Sin models, with a small pulldown wand that hides in plain sight, being housed inside the tubing. Of the four Sin models, I got the one with a Highflex memory hose that springs back to reset itself. Its wand has a press-once button to switch to spray. This is good for my Silgranite sink because it's much easier to rinse Silgranite sink walls down with a broad spray than with a narrow jet.


clipped on: 09.08.2011 at 09:10 am    last updated on: 09.08.2011 at 09:10 am

RE: max. sink size in 30' base (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: laurie_2008 on 08.02.2011 at 10:37 pm in Kitchens Forum

Our 16 guage ss undermount single bowl sink is 30" x 18" x 9" (28" x 16" bowl size) and our cabinet is 30". The sink cost $238 from home center . com a little over 3 years ago. We have been very happy with it!

My husband is an engineer and very concerned with "modifying" structures of any kind for fear of weakening or lowering their strength. He did end up cutting out a portion of the sink base (see pics below) and feels that the sink base is still very sound/sturdy.

In the picture below, the left side of the sink base has been cut "notched out".

Then, we notched out the right side

Now, the 30" sink fits into the 30" cabinet




clipped on: 08.03.2011 at 08:13 am    last updated on: 08.03.2011 at 08:13 am

The Next Step...Planning For Storage

posted by: buehl on 01.03.2011 at 05:23 am in Kitchens Forum

Planning For Storage

Once you've finalized your basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size & configuration of your cabinets and drawers.

  1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your new kitchen, regardless of where it's stored, basement, dining room, etc.

  2. Next, take the list and group the items according to function. Will they be used during prep? cooking? baking? cleanup? Some items, like pot holders, may belong in two different zones (in this case, cooking & baking). You can either find storage between the two zones or have duplicates and store one in each zone.

  3. Now, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)

  4. The next step depends on the stage you are in the design/order process...

  5. If you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have. So...

    • Identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.

    • Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.

  6. If you are still in the design phase, you will have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.
    • Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.

    • Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).

    • Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)

    • Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.

You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

Sample storage map:

This process and the resultant "map" will not only help you to "see" how things will fit, but the map will also help when you move back into the won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy map for everyone to use when attempting to find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!

Common Zones, Appliances In That Zone, and Suggestions For What To Store There:

  • Storage--pantry & refrigerator--Tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags

  • Preparation--sink & trash/recyclables--utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books, paper towels

  • Cooking--cooktop/range & MW (and near a water source)--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.), paper towels

  • Baking--ovens/range--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins, paper towels [often combined with Cooking Zone]

  • Cleanup--sink & DW & trash--detergents, linens, dishes & glasses, flatware

  • Eating/Serving--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR--table linens, placemats, napkins, dishes & glasses, flatware

  • Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords

  • Message/Communication/Command Center--keys, phones/answering machine, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard, pens/pencils, sticky notepaper

Less Common Zones:

  • Tea/Coffee Bar--tea/coffeemaker (and near a water source)--mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot

  • Snack/Beverage Center--near MW & refrigerator or small refrigerator--snacks, snack dishes, glasses [often combined with Tea/Coffee Bar]

  • Pet Zone--feeding area--food, snacks, leashes, medicines (if no children in the home), etc.

Overlapping of Zones

Due to space constraints, some zones often overlap. If this is the case in your kitchen, be sure there is enough work space in the overlap for both activities. Zones that commonly overlap...

  • Prep & Cooking Zones--These zones should be adjacent to each other, so this is a common overlap and is generally not a problem. Just be sure you have enough room for prepping as well as landing space for the range/cooktop. (It is strongly advised you have enough room for emergency landing space on both sides of a range/cooktop.)

  • Prep & Cleanup Zones--If there is only one sink in the kitchen, these zones will be adjacent to each other because of the need for a water source for both zones. However, true overlapping is not generally a good idea. Instead, try to keep the cleanup area separate from the prep area by putting the sink between them. E.g., DW on one side, Prep Zone on the other side. (You should strive to keep the DW out of the Prep Zone as well as out of the path between the sink and Prep & Cooking Zones and between the refrigerator and Prep & Cooking Zones.) Also try for at least 36" (42" or more is better) of room on the Prep Zone side of the sink for ample workspace as well as accommodating the inevitable dirty dishes that will accumulate next to the sink.

Commonly Used Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer

SPECIAL NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.

Some helpful threads:

forestfire..please help me with my lists [Missing In Action as of 5/16/10...if anyone has saved it, please let me know by emailing me via "My Page"]

List of stuff in kitchens?

What should go within easy reach of the cooktop?

What goes where?

Reloading the new kitchen, any tips where things should go?

Only one lower cabinet...would you do it?


clipped on: 06.12.2011 at 08:00 am    last updated on: 06.12.2011 at 08:00 am

RE: Quest for a sink - Stainless Farmhouse (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: boxerpups on 04.16.2011 at 05:56 pm in Kitchens Forum


Here are some pictures. (Kinds of what I do best)


Ps. I love you note about your Boxer Stella. Sweet name
for bt sweet girl.








Some links that might be helpful too.

GW Ikea farmhouse sink

Old GW post SS farmhouse sink

SS apron sinks - curved or straight front? Show me your pics plz


clipped on: 06.12.2011 at 07:49 am    last updated on: 06.12.2011 at 07:49 am

RE: What should go within easy reach of the cooktop? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: buehl on 12.08.2009 at 04:47 am in Kitchens Forum

This might also help...

  • Cabinet 1: 24" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 2: 30" base, 2 drawers + Warming Drawer
  • Cabinet 3: 6" filler pullout w/3 shelves
  • Cabinet 4: 36" cooktop base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 5: 6" filler pullout w/3 shelves
  • Cabinet 6: 31" base, 1 drawer + Microwave Drawer
  • Cabinet 7: 36" corner sink base w/15-3/4" square sink
  • Cabinet 8: 24" base, 4 drawers
  • Cabinet 9: 27" base, 1 drawer + 2 roll out shelves (2 doors)
  • Cabinet 10: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 11: 21"W x 12"D x 30"H upper, 3 shelves
  • Cabinet 12: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 13: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 14: 21"W x 12"D x 30"H upper, 3 shelves
  • Cabinet 15: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 16: 36"W x 24"D over-the-refrigerator cabinet
  • Cabinet 17: 33" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 18: 18" Trash Pullout + 1 drawer (2 bins)
  • Cabinet 19: 36" sink base w/35-1/2" sink
  • Cabinet 20: 24" DW
  • Cabinet 21: 27" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 22: 31.5" double-oven cabinet, 1 drawer + cabinet above w/dividers for tray storage & 1 shelf
  • Cabinet 23: 23"W x 12"D x 36"H upper cabinet, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 24: 23"W x 12"D x 36"H upper cabinet, 4 shelves
  • NOTES:

    clipped on: 06.12.2011 at 07:42 am    last updated on: 06.12.2011 at 07:43 am

    RE: Pictures of craftsman interior trim? (Follow-Up #7)

    posted by: brianwhite on 05.16.2007 at 04:53 pm in Building a Home Forum

    A Craftsman spec house I built last year.

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


    clipped on: 05.07.2011 at 12:29 am    last updated on: 05.07.2011 at 12:29 am

    RE: 8-foot wide kitchen? (Follow-Up #5)

    posted by: florantha on 05.02.2011 at 10:20 am in Kitchens Forum

    The problem of repurposing an old kitchen for a new use can be a thorny one, esp. a long narrow one. Witness the recent thread about where to distribute appliances in a modified kitchen and whether to start over elsewhere. It's ironic that we Americans have to think "how can I use the old space?" when we plan big kitchen additions. I'm not guiltless here--we have repurposed our corridor kitchen and put in one of those additions, but we worked 2 years to get the plan right so we didn't leave behind a marooned oddball space. The old kitchen has become a working hall between old house and new kitchen and routes people away from front door and kitchen.

    We worked in the old 8 foot wide kitchen for many years. As long as a room like this is not a frequently used hall also, it works, although some rules of civility must be agreed to. The 4 feet across is a good thing, although losing 6 inches on one side to a deeper counter wouldn't bother me (I don't think). Don't put dishwasher on the long sides unless you have to because it bisects the space when open and adults cannot move around it without extra caution.

    Don't go at the corridor project with a "sky's the limit" attitude and let go the idea of a fancy showplace with bare countertops. If you want a working kitchen you have to be very disciplined in deciding what you absolutely need and what is only a want. Don't let yourself be romanced by mega-ranges and refrigerators--examine the modest European model of space usage. Also assess what kitchen functions can be off-loaded to adjacent spaces....a second sink along a transition zone? dishes storage in dining area? large pantry items stored in adjacent closet? or storing "good deal" yet to be used foodstuffs in garage (from the Costco big shopping trip)?

    Adjacent to our old corridor kitchen we built an insanely big storage cupboard over the basement stair. We ignored the unreachable top of it but used the bottom shelf for picnic stuff, canning stuff, etc. Also, remember that a refrig can be pushed into the wall behind it to cut out 3+ inches of depth. If there's a window, it might be possible to make a bump-out so sink area has space for good faucet and items arrayed around sink. Examine the many kinds of customizing inserts and such for cabs and drawers. Consolidate as much space as possible for each function--two large lower drawers instead of four smalls.

    Next to range, try doing what we did--put knives and utensils into the countertop, freeing up two drawers for other uses. (The drawers were shortened to allow this adaptation.) This idea is one I gladly give to the GW to those people who aren't embarrassed to show that they own utensils and knives -- everyone who sees it loves it. Also put a niche or shelves over range to hold oils, salt and pepper, etc. Making the range a cockpit area "rocks" as noted above.
    Knife Slit Utensil Canisters

    There are examples of corridor kitchens out there to study. Look hard. Biggest challenge will be to make it work for two cooks, if you need that. Don't put range or sink into a corner because that guarantees that one cook will have to stand to the side waiting for the other to do something.

    Even look at the recently posted West Coast architect's corridor kitchen with the zipper door. I suspect that was close to 8 feet across.


    clipped on: 05.02.2011 at 10:28 am    last updated on: 05.02.2011 at 10:28 am

    RE: Lid storage - pictures please (Follow-Up #8)

    posted by: beaglesdoitbetter on 04.23.2011 at 04:47 pm in Kitchens Forum

    We have a pot lid rack pull-out thing planned in the pull-outs on the side of our cooktop.

    I'm sorry I don't have a better picture. It's the upper right corner:


    clipped on: 04.23.2011 at 05:37 pm    last updated on: 04.23.2011 at 05:37 pm

    RE: Art Noveau Inspired Kitchens? (Follow-Up #39)

    posted by: circuspeanut on 03.29.2011 at 09:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

    Oh, I'm shamelessly promiscuous with hardware, I'm afraid. I got lots where that came from. Check out (I'll link each image to its source):


    clipped on: 03.30.2011 at 08:53 am    last updated on: 03.30.2011 at 08:53 am

    RE: Art Noveau Inspired Kitchens? (Follow-Up #33)

    posted by: writersblock on 03.29.2011 at 06:00 pm in Kitchens Forum

    Hi, pillog. It's pretty surprising how difficult it tis to find decora switchplates in all sorts of styles.

    Have you seen this?

    Although to me it looks more arts and crafts than nouveau.

    Or there's this one, but only for a single switch:

    Or this one is available for a single rocker, too:

    or this one, which is brass and available in several sizes, but won't let me link it.


    clipped on: 03.30.2011 at 08:49 am    last updated on: 03.30.2011 at 08:49 am

    RE: How Wide Is Your Pantry Walk Area? (Follow-Up #8)

    posted by: buehl on 10.09.2010 at 06:44 pm in Kitchens Forum

    A couple to consider:

    pricklypearcactus's pantry #1 &amp; #2

    The first one gives you work space in the pantry, the second gives you more storage.


    clipped on: 03.07.2011 at 10:54 pm    last updated on: 03.07.2011 at 10:54 pm

    RE: Cabinet over sink, questions (Follow-Up #5)

    posted by: kompy on 01.14.2009 at 01:40 pm in Kitchens Forum

    I have a display in my showroom. We stacked two cabinets...the lower one is a 'plate rack' that we reduced in depth to 9". I like the continuous line of cabinets (instead of different heights). We used a narrow 'light rail' This set up is not a head banger...does not impede faucet useage...has room for strip lights and would look great in a vintage home.


    Ps. Note also how I use 'full height doors' on sink bases. I do this a lot. I personally don't like the fake drawer. I also think it looks better in an older (pre 1940s) home.



    clipped on: 03.06.2011 at 11:07 pm    last updated on: 03.06.2011 at 11:07 pm

    Finished Traditional Kitchen (lots of pics)

    posted by: jm_seattle on 03.05.2011 at 01:54 pm in Kitchens Forum

    THANK YOU GARDENWEB! We got so many great ideas from this forum, and everybody was so incredibly helpful and generous.

    Here are some pics and a few details:
    Kitchen corner
    Refrigerator and pantry:
    Message center:
    Message center with built-in chalkboard
    Breakfast nook:
    Breakfast nook
    Our KD wanted an extremely large window area to bring in light, but made it fit into the old house by breaking it up and using leaded glass:
    new leaded glass windows
    Sink w/glass filler, runnels, & built-in compost bin:
    Sink w/Runnels & built-in compost bin
    Built-in compost bin close-up:
    Built-in compost bin
    Mug shelf:
    Mug Shelf
    Charging drawer. This entire cabinet is deeper than it appears because it is built into the interior wall behind it, gaining an extra 4" or so of storage space without creeping into the walkway in front of it:
    Charging station built into drawer
    Island cabinets:
    Island cabinets wtih cutting board
    Miele ovens installed as flush inset (I searched and never did find pictures of this, so hopefully these will help somebody else):
    Miele appliances mounted flush inset
    Cleaning closet in "invented space" from interior wall:
    Cleaning closet
    Extra depth for the vacuum was made by reducing the depth of the drawers under the pantry:
    Cleaning closet
    The placement of the outlet underneath the music player shelf allows the nasty cordness to be hidden from eye-level:
    Music Shelf
    Toe-kick heater vent. The toe-kick face under the message center & island is covered with stained oak flooring. From eye-level, the toe-kick absorbs the correct amount of light and gives the appearance of freestanding cabinets.
    Under island heater vent
    The freestanding appearance is clearer here:
    Cabinet built-into wall
    Drawers under nook seating area:
    Under-seat drawers in nook
    There is a powder room off the kitchen. This wasn't our first choice, but ended up being our only choice in this old house, and has been okay, especially considering its placement is directly next to the hallway and away from the primary cooking area:
    Bathroom off of kitchen
    Adjacent mudroom, which became part of the kitchen remodel. The door is to a laundry chute which we use mostly for kitchen towels & napkins.

    Here is a link that might be useful: More pictures


    clipped on: 03.05.2011 at 05:36 pm    last updated on: 03.05.2011 at 05:37 pm

    RE: Toe kick drawers - worth it or a waste? (Follow-Up #7)

    posted by: loves2cook4six on 02.12.2011 at 03:14 pm in Kitchens Forum

    I have them as well and love them too However, my cabinets were custom built and the toe kick area of the cabinets was incorporated into the bottom drawers making them deeper.

    This is my can storage

    Can Storage

    and this is how they look from the side:


    Excuse the dust, these were taken during construction. These open by just hooking your toe under the trim and pulling. You can push them shut with your foot as well.


    clipped on: 02.15.2011 at 09:55 am    last updated on: 02.15.2011 at 09:55 am

    RE: Walk-in pantry finally finished...and FULL!!! (Follow-Up #21)

    posted by: arlosmom on 02.14.2011 at 04:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

    OK, so the tassels stay for now.

    The carpenter that built my shelves is here today putting shelves in an upstairs closet for me, and he came down to visit the pantry and see it filled. I think he's proud of his masterpiece. cjc123, I reminded the carpenter MANY times about not nailing into the watch me puncture it when I hang a picture. LOL

    The door to the pantry was one of a pair of pocket doors we bought at an architectural salvage store when we did our addition. Its mate is the door to our powder room, right across the little back hall. We love the patina of the old stuff.

    rhome, thanks for the reminder to add photos to the pantry thread. I spent several sessions pouring over that thread, so I'd love to add something helpful.

    briannadarnell, the can shelves are 4 1/2" deep, and the back shelves are 12" deep. From the ceiling, the top shelf is down 12", the two upper shelves have 11 1/2", the shelf with the toaster oven has 12 1/2", and the two shelves above and the two shelves below the toaster oven have 10 1/2" each. From the floor to the bottom shelf is 13".

    rexroat, the space is 5' by 5' with a 12" by 2 1/2' vertical soffit in the corner for the HVAC ducting.

    boxerpups, here's the official guide to the chocolate: the tin lunchbox two shelves above the toaster oven contains approximately 7 pounds of m&ms and hershey's kisses. Yes, those are 2 boxes of thin mints you see. Also, the glass jar just below the toaster oven has the Costco-sized bag of Nestle's morsels. I feel strongly that one should never risk insufficient chocolate.


    clipped on: 02.14.2011 at 11:52 pm    last updated on: 02.14.2011 at 11:52 pm

    RE: help with layout of small kitchen (Follow-Up #14)

    posted by: buehl on 02.09.2011 at 11:13 am in Kitchens Forum

    NKBA Kitchen Planning Guideline 6 - Work Aisle


    The width of a work aisle should be at least 42" for one cook and at least 48" for multiple cooks. Measure between
    the counter frontage, tall cabinets and/or appliances.

    NKBA Kitchen Planning Guideline 7 - Walkway


    The width of a walkway should be at least 36".

    NKBA Kitchen Planning Guideline 8 - Traffic Clearance at Seating


    In a seating area where no traffic passes behind a seated diner allow 32" of clearance from the counter/table edge
    to any wall or other obstruction behind the seating area.

    a. If traffic passes behind the seated diner, allow at least 36" to edge past.

    b. If traffic passes behind the seated diner, allow at least 44" to walk past.

    Note: This is not for seats with counters or appliances behind them (e.g., island seating).

    NKBA Kitchen Planning Guideline 9 - Seating Clearance


    Kitchen seating areas should incorporate at least the following clearances:

    a. 30" high tables/counters: Allow a 24" wide x 18" deep counter/table space for each seated diner.

    b. 36" high counters: Allow a 24" wide by 15" deep counter space for each seated diner and at least 15" of clear knee space.

    c. 42" high counters: Allow a 24" wide by 12" deep counter space for each seated diner and 12" of clear knee space.

    Access Standard Recommended:

    Kitchen seating areas should be 28" - 34" high x 30" - 36" wide x 19" deep to better accommodate people of various sizes or those using a mobility aid.

    Recommended minimum size for a knee space at a table or counter is 36" wide x 27" high x 19" deep.


    clipped on: 02.09.2011 at 12:28 pm    last updated on: 02.09.2011 at 12:28 pm

    RE: Some of the best advice from the braintrust on this forum (Follow-Up #4)

    posted by: buehl on 02.05.2011 at 03:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

    I don't know if you've read the "Read Me" thread, but the "Best Advice" and other, similar, threads are linked in it. They're located in the "Miscellaneous Information"-->"Helpful Threads" topic.

    Here's your list, reformatted for ease of reading (see "Curious about text in messages (adding bold, italics, etc.)", also in the "Miscellaneous Information"-->"Helpful Threads" topic.)


    • lay the kitchen out on the ground outside with all the measurements and walk around it to see if it felt right. I took my measurements and scraps of wood and laid them out in the various plans I had come up with.

    • check out the sound of the fan in the new ovens. I would have been pretty steamed to spend a bunch on a new range and have that sound come blaring out each time I used the oven.

    • putting Blumotion on the cabinet doors. This is my favorite feature in our kitchen and the cost was cheap to add these on after the cab install.

    • "zones" on this forum, and designed my kitchen around them, with a tremendous amount of help from my forum friends. In my old kitchen, the dishwasher opened across from the island (right into the backs of my legs). Now, the cleanup zone is on the peninsula, the prep area is between the fridge and sink, etc. It's really wonderful.

    • No air gap -- most modern dishwashers don't need them, so you don't have to have that extra unattractive "thing" on your countertop. Easy way around that if you need to pass code inspection is to drill the hole for air gap... pop it on for inspection and when they've gone take off the air gap and pop on your soap dispenser. Then put the loop in the hose at the back of your dishwasher...

    • Advantium

    • Miele dishwasher

    • Test tube rack for spice storage

    • Lay it out with tape to double check

    • advice for setting up a temp kitchen

    • Measure from 3 points wall to wall. Had I known this when we remodeled the entire house in 1990, I would now have the room to put in a pro-style range. As it is, I am exactly....1/4" short. Talk about frustrating! Our cabs are in great shape and I love them, but I'm stuck with the 29-7/8" width on the range.

    • I really like this that I stole from Dmlove--- I love not having all those cords on my desk/countertop! So best advice from this forum... details make the difference! for now my phone sits over the hole

    • pull down (rather than pull out or side spray) faucet

    • Bluestar, after asking about the best 30 inch slide-in range

    • batch-feed garbage disposals

    • adding outlets

    • Galaxy Tool Supply for our sink

    • Never MT

    • Plugmold

    • Wide/shallow cabinet for William Sonoma ultra-thin step stool.

    • Airswitch on disposal. Never minded the wall switch, but now that I have a nice backsplash and an island

    • Floodstop on icemaker and washing machine.

    • I put power into the back of 4 drawers, so each family member has a place to charge the cell phone (or camcorder or whatever) out of sight.

    • I also have a false panel behind a niche so that the power / wallwarts / phone wire / wireless access point is hidden. Only the phone sits out exposed. Similar to the idea above, but using depth.

    • Don't pack your booze prior to remodeling (this is VERY important! VERY IMPORTANT!)

    • Lacanche

    • caulk on change of planes verses grout...look at the underside of your cabinets

    • Plugmold for under the ends of my island so I didn't have to cut outlets into my beautiful cabinets

    • integrated drainboard cut into the countertop

    • raising the countertop for my wall oven - which gave me a bonus "standing desk" for my laptop

    • never thought I could get talked out of gas. So, that is the best advice so far

    • I'm a single sink convert, based solely upon the reviews on this website.

    • DH and I made a "never mt" out of tubing bought for $0.46 at Lowes. It's really not very exciting, though. It's clear tubing (like the kind you see on aquariums) attached to the bottom of the soap dispenser thing, and then extends down through the lid and into the bottom of the bottle of soap. (We just drilled a hole in the top of the bottle and shoved the tubing down.) So low tech! The tubing is something like $.23/ foot and we bought 2 feet. Super easy.

    • Landing space between appliances

    • Aisle clearances

    • Wait until its right - the right plan, the right time, the right appliances.

    • instant hot water heater

    • Getting a 36" range

    • baking center

    • online resources for sinks and faucets

    • the importance of putting functionality first in all design decisions

    • how to test granite for durability

    • remote blower for hood fan

    • single deep fireclay sink

    • lots of great online resources for sinks, faucets, etc

    • Never NEVER NEVER!!!! Leave your construction site to go on vacation ::scary music:: I MEAN NEVERRRRR!!!!!

    • the best (and most costly) is don't settle. You have to live with this kitchen for quite some time. Don't settle! (Even if that means you scrapped the cabinets today, called of the GC for 8 weeks while you order new ones, and you can't live in your home so you have to find somewhere else to live for three months). And maybe Santa won't know where you live!!!

    • Pegasus under-cabinet lighting here. Slim, good-looking, very energy-efficient, and reasonably priced.

    • I was convinced of the superiority of the Miele cutlery rack

    • do not rush..get a good plan in place. Pick what you love ..NOT what the designer loves

    • Brizo Floriano/pulldowns in general

    • xenon lighting

    • Venting

    • Tapmaster

    • take pictures of everything while your walls are open. It is very helpful to have that photographic record of where electric, pipes, studs etc. actually are. Also, plan for where you want to install pot/wall racks, shelf brackets, etc.--and add extra framing in the walls before they get closed up.

    • Get your floor plan right!

    • The Franke Orca sink ... to die for.

    • Inexpensive but quality Ticor sinks for laundry and prep.

    • Plugmold giving me a crisp, clean and outlet-free backsplash.

    • The personal, real life stories shared here gave me the confidence to push back at the stoneyard and insist on marble for my island. It pairs beautifully with the soapstone perimeter.

    • Bertazzoni range

    • White America Quartzite to go with SS

    • LED undercabinet lights

    • internet and eBay vendor recommendations

    • Hancock & Moore leather furniture (from GW furniture forum)

    • Microfiber cloths for cleaning SS and granite.

    • we had scaled drawings, pictures, and sketches taped to walls and cabinets all over the kitchen. A sketch of the island layout, a drawing with dimensions for light fixtures and switches, a sketch showing the spacing of shelves, a picture of how we wanted plugmold installed - you name it, we had it on a piece of paper and taped on a wall. When we would discuss anything with the electrician, plumber, etc., usually we would show them a drawing or sketch so they would know exactly what we were looking for. Then we would post it on the wall in the kitchen. It may have been slightly annoying to those working there, but it was amazing how much it helped. A number of times after someone screwed something up I would just point to a drawing and they would immediately have to take the blame and offer to fix it. There was never any chance to claim that we never told them or that we had said something else. It was right there on the wall the whole time.

    • undercounter light switch for undercounter lights

    • tilt-out shoe storage cabinet

    • Get hardwoods instead of laminate. Once I investigated I couldn't believe at how little difference in cost between the two (good decent laminate vs. hardwood)

    • This is AWESOME! I now have a list of things I had never even heard of to check on...and I thought I was on top of things!

    • posters here are willing to share their good and bad experiences so that newbies like me can have a smoother reno.

    • Something that I'm slowly realizing as I continue to read the posts here is that, despite the best of planning, something (or things) likely will not go as planned.

    • Buy appliances available locally (so service is available), from retailers who will actually stand behind the sale instead of shifting all blame and responsibility to the manufacturer - even when they shipped a defective product. Just finished reading a long thread about someone that bought from an internet retailer, and it was shocking to see the attitude of the retailer. Forget the pre sale promises and assurances from some of these disreputable internet companies who won't be there if you have a problem and just get them locally. No small percentage of savings is worth it if you end up with a defective product shipped and the retailer says it isn't his problem. If you must buy via internet, make sure you get in writing that the product will be shipped defect-free and if there's anything wrong with the unit at all - IMMEDIATELY contest the charge with your credit card company. Don't rely on promises that a minor (or major) problem will be promptly repaired by a service company.

    • learning all the lingo was great. When the contractor asked if I wanted plugmold I didn't go "huh?" I think by being knowledgeable before talking to the contractor it helps a lot.

    • Knobs vs. Pulls. There have been several discussions of knobs vs. pulls. Some comments:

    • Knobs on base cabinets can catch on clothing (and rip sometimes).

    • Cabinets/drawers w/pulls can usually be opened w/one finger...even the pinky finger.

    • Susan Jablon glass tile. Everyone who comes in my house walks up to my backsplash and has to touch it. I had just about given up the idea of a glass tile backsplash before finding out about her site on this forum. The price of her tile, even with shipping, was about half of what I could have bought it for locally and it is gorgeous!

    • No sockets/switches in backsplash (under cabinet plug strip)

    • Toe kick on trash pop out BUT... ADD a second spring to add power to the pop (thank you for whoever mentioned this ingenious bit of info)

    • Double layered cutlery drawer (secret drawer within a drawer)

    • What to look for when choosing undercabinet lighting eg... reflection, spread of light, color of light, heat...

    • Benefits of a large farmhouse sink

    • Miele dishwasher

    • superb

    • Thermador cooktop and all the controversy about the popup draft and how I could get away with not having one. THANK YOU!

    • Miele warming drawer FANTASTIC and thank you for making me realize that it doesn't have to be on the floor under the oven!!!

    • PLAN YOUR STORAGE SPACE. measure boxes, measure food processor, mixer, stack of plates etc. etc. then make a note of contents in the drawers or cupboards on your plans or diagrams or in your notes.

    • Plug strip under center island.

    • YOU ARE NOT ALONE- PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT YOUR CD FRIDGE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU and it's OK to really take your time with your decisions

    • Orca single sink

    • Pot rack in upper cabinet (I think this idea was from loves2cookfor6??)

    • Electrical outlet inside a drawer for a charging station

    • filling in the gap between the fridge and the cupboard above it with some leftover filler and a piano hinge. Cambro...where did you see this idea? Just yesterday we discovered that we might have a significant gap b/w the top of the refrigerator & the bottom of the cabinet above. Our contractor is just going to use filler to hide the gap, but if we put it on hinges it would actually become usable space!

    • knife drawer (I hated that block)

    • gel stain

    • Getting rid of my ugly phone jack and getting a phone that doesn't need one!

    • How to get rid of the drip inside my oven door - with a hanger and a sock going up through the holes at the bottom of the door. Worked like a charm!

    • Get a spine when talking to GC about his version vs. my version of cleaning up the jobsite each day (aka our home).

    • Use masking tape and a measuring tape and make a mock up of where your new cabinets will go. This is a biggie!

    • Dimmer switches! I put them on ALL of the new lighting, including the patio lights adjacent, and have not regretted it once.

    • how great Silgranit sinks are to live with. Never even heard of one before GW.

    • Buying Sources

      • Ticor sinks: Ticor Sinks at Galaxy Tool Supply:

      • Tapmaster:

      • Never-MT: Never-MT:

      • Pop up Outlets: Popup Mocketts:

      • Plugmold Power Strips:

      • Angle Powerstrip:

    • Our Vac Pan. Ours is hooked up to a wet/dry vac in the basement because we do not have central vac. The idea came from this forum and our electrician and contractor figured out how to make it happen.

    • DIY on gel stain. Thanks Celticmoon and Projectsneverend.

    • Soapstone, getting it, finding the right fabricator right here, and caring for it

    • where to find a deal on saddle stools

    • Kohler Vinnata

    • Not to put my cooktop on my island.

    • best advice I got was around my budget and how to make the hard decisions on what should stay in and what should go (that was from Buehl).

    • What is not that important to me and doesn't add functionality? [Candidate for elimination altogether]

    • What can I do at a later date? [Candidate for deferring until a later date]

    • What can't be done at a later date and I can't live without? [Candidate for keeping and doing now]

    • This forum helped me see which terms are worth using, and which can be saved for later. This forum helped me get clearer communication going. Resistance could be expressed when I raised ideas; it all helped to refine the concept.

    • This forum helped me justify personal innovations. This forum confirmed ideas.

    • Tweaking and innovating. I tweaked everything in my kitchen along the way.

    • I don't know if I would have a remodeled kitchen if it weren't for this forum. I would have still been looking at the dreadful old one wishing it was nice and not knowing how to get it nice. Even the ideas & photos of things I didn't want for me helped to define what I did want.

    • I have to give credit to my carpenter, too. There was a time when his eyes rolled when I said, "but the people on the kitchen forum say......." But I had photos and conversations printed off to show him what I meant.

    • Lisalists organized drawers where the dividers go from front to back or side to side so you don't have to nest objects-and you can fit so much stuff in. Easy, easy access. No nesting. Yay

    • Layout, efficiency. This has to be the most important thing I've been learning here. What tasks do you perform, what zones will you organize them in, what items do you need close at hand in each zone, how does traffic between and through zones flow. etc.

    • Styles, materials, looks. People here have great ''eyes'' for style and looks. My eyes have been opened to these looks, and I've learned the vocabulary to describe them.

    • Specific ideas/features I learned about here that seem like they'll be useful: prep sinks, base cabinet drawers, counter top materials other than granite, true convection ovens, unfitted kitchens, under-counter refrigeration.

    • Many things, one of which is using a 13-15" depth cabinet for inset cabinets, as 12 is not sufficient.

    • Carefully placing all the appliances and storage thinking about what you use with what. For example, I moved the microwave to be next to the refrigerator because we use it mostly for reheating leftovers. I have fridge, prep sink, prep area, range, more prep area on one side and on the other I have prep area/ landing zone (across from fridge), main sink, prep area / dishwasher (across from range, but offset so both people can work) in the island.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!


    clipped on: 02.08.2011 at 10:59 am    last updated on: 02.08.2011 at 11:00 am

    RE: Clueless about sinks (Follow-Up #2)

    posted by: plllog on 01.14.2011 at 07:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

    There are many options. The most common are:

    1. Enamelled cast iron. Indestructible. Kohler makes the best quality. They've changed from the old porcelain to a harder enamel that fires much hotter. It's almost impossible to chip or stain. They demonstrate it by throwing cast iron frying pans at it. (Don't do this until it's installed. You can actually crack the iron when it isn't braced. Rare, but it happens) Comes in all kinds of sizes, shapes and colors.

    2. Old fashioned porcelain on cast iron. Limited choices, mostly in classic or reproduction shapes. Can be stained, though usually can be cleaned or bleached. Can be cracked or chipped, though rarely. Pretty darned durable. You can also get these at salvage yards where 100 year old ones are still lovely.

    3. Fireclay. All the clay without the iron. Pretty much hand made. Feels wonderful. Looks gorgeous. A little more prone to cracking and chipping than the above, but more durable than vitreous china (think bathroom fixtures). The apron of farm sinks is particularly vulnerable. Hard to stain. Don't over tighten the drain/disposer flange, as the pressure can cause cracking. Do wait to make the opening for it until you have the actual sink because there there is size variation, unlike molded or manufactured sinks. Also, order early because these are more likely to be damaged in shipping than other sinks. Really gorgeous though.

    4. Stainless. Different sizes, shapes, thicknesses, and finishes. A polished finish is hard to keep polished looking. Do scratch, but build up an overall patina where scratches don't show. Can be made "zero radius" where the corners are perfectly 90 degres...which is also harder to clean. Many options for placement of the drain. Highly durable, though can be dented and scratched.

    5. Other metals such as brass or copper. Brass is only really appropriate for a little used bar sink. Hard to maintain. Copper is said to be naturally antimicrobial, which is great. It has a living finish, however, which means that any acids (tomato, lemon, vinegar) will bring out the "new penny" copper color, where the rest will oxidize and go dark. A splatter can look like freckles until it darkens, etc. If you love the look, a great choice. If you don't, skip it. Many shapes, sizes and colors, plus custom, can be dented and scratched, very durable other than finish.

    6. Granite dust molded in resin. E.g., Silgranite. Warm to the touch. Slightly textured. Easy to clean. Durable. Some selection of styles and colors. Matte finish (non-reflective).

    7. Natural stone. Sinks can be carved out of a chunk of soapstone, marble or other carvable stone. Heavy. Expensive. Exceedingly durable. May stain if made of marble or other porous stone. There are some stain cures, but they're a bother. Does age and develop patina. It's a hollowed out rock. :)

    8. Natural stone contruction: Straight sided sinks are also made out of slabs of stone. Soapstone, granite and others. These are assembled. Theoretically, could develop leaks at the joins, but that doesn't seem to happen enough for word to get around. Will develop patina according to the stone type, but easy care and quite durable. Small (very small) potential for cracking crystalline stone. Heavy, but not as heavy as solid stone. Possibility of staining according to specific stone. Can be customized to location and purpose. Hard to clean the cracks where the slabs meet.

    9. Corian and other plastics. Can be integrated into countertop. Light weight. "Soft" on breakables. Easy to scratch and stain. Can be, by repute, refinished with sandpaper.

    10. Glass. Easy to clean. Not porous. Easy to crack. Doesn't like thermal shock. Looks amazing.


    clipped on: 01.14.2011 at 07:32 pm    last updated on: 01.14.2011 at 07:33 pm

    RE: Kohler stages 33' sink in an Island (Follow-Up #6)

    posted by: carecooks on 12.17.2010 at 04:38 pm in Kitchens Forum


    Glad that I could be of help. I'll try to answer all of your questions.

    1. Yes, I leave the wood cutting board in the sink. You kind of have to because it is really large and heavy and takes up too much space under the sink for me. Plus it's nice having it ready to work on.

    2. I do use the accessory rack but not for the accessories that came with the sink. I've taken a picture to show you what I have under there. I bought a compact Insinkerator disposal but it still takes up some room. So be prepared for that.


    3. I measured under the shelf area without the accessory rack. It's 27". With the accessory rack it's just about 12 1/2". From the base of the sink to the bottom, it's about 20".

    4. I don't have a trash container in the island. It's almost right behind me. If you look at the picture with the back island view, you'll see the toaster. Just to right of the toaster (as you're looking at the picture) there's one drawer and then you can see the pull of the trash container drawer just beneath it. It's so close that it's easy to use for both the island and for scraping dishes before washing them. I find that if I have a lot of garbage, I just use a stainless bowl or plastic container at the prep sink and then turn around and dump it in the trash. It so easy to put the container in the sink just below the cutting board. You can sweep the garbage right into it!

    5. The drawer to the right of the stove is a 6" pull-out that I use for vinegars, oils, soy sauce, etc. I didn't make any big goofs in my kitchen but I made a couple of small ones. And here was one of them. My original plan had a rangetop with drawers beneath it. Then I switched it to the whole Bluestar range. I forgot to move the Oil/Vinegar pull-out away from the stove. (I could have put it to the right of the drawers next to the sink instead of to the left of them next to the stove.) The stuff in there does get a bit warm so I only keep one oil there and the rest are vinegars and stuff.


    The small pull-out is a 3" that holds my smaller spice containers.


    You may notice that my Bluestar has black instead of orange knobs in the last two pictures. They were taken before the orange knobs arrived.

    I love talking about my kitchen. I'm thrilled with how it came out both in looks and function. So if you have any other questions, fire away.

    Good luck!



    clipped on: 01.11.2011 at 08:42 am    last updated on: 01.11.2011 at 08:42 am

    RE: Is your kitchen still the same but... BETTER? (Follow-Up #12)

    posted by: cpartist on 12.18.2010 at 09:54 pm in Kitchens Forum

    We just finished our kitchen. We didn't change the basic footprint. We did open up the kitchen to the dining room, and added a breakfast bar. Opening up the kitchen to let more light in and having access to the dining room was my major pitter-patter. I also, lovvvvvvveeeeeee my farmhouse sink and my appliance garages. Also my drawer microwave. I also love the glass doors that I will be filling up next week when I'm back in FL. Oh shucks. I love it all!

    I just recently posted these in a thread, but here are a few before/after's again:

    Before the entry into the kitchen:
    Looking into kitchen from foyer-before reno


    Kitchen before reno-notice the mirror next to the fridge

    Pantry, drawer microwave, appliance garage-after

    Kitchen from dining room before reno

    Kitchen from dining room after

    Opening to dining room before reno

    Opening to dining room after reno

    View from the dining room before:
    looking into kitchen and foyer from dining room -before reno

    Looking into kitchen after reno


    clipped on: 12.19.2010 at 01:21 pm    last updated on: 12.19.2010 at 01:22 pm

    RE: Appliance garage?? (Follow-Up #2)

    posted by: cpartist on 12.12.2010 at 09:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

    Here's mine that I just added. I added one on each side of the fridge. One for the toaster oven and one for the coffee stuff.
    Kitchen from dining room after
    Appliance garage opened


    clipped on: 12.14.2010 at 04:38 pm    last updated on: 12.14.2010 at 04:38 pm

    RE: Islands-Flat or Two Tiered??? (Follow-Up #8)

    posted by: julieh1926 on 12.13.2010 at 07:41 pm in Kitchens Forum

    I'll weigh in since I have a bi-level island, and it definitely seems to be a less popular choice to a lot of people. Lots of people on this forum seem to advocate having a single level island so that it doesn't break up the space and so that you can have one very large workspace for projects, etc. If you have either a sink or a cooktop in the island, the project space might somewhat be diminished unless your island is very big.

    We chose a bilevel for a variety of reasons: 1) our kitchen is part of a kitchen/great room and we really liked the idea of having the spaces visually separated; 2) our island is really big, so we have plenty of room for prep without using the raised portion; 3) we have a dining table very nearby which gives us the utility of a work/project space; 4) positioning outlets isn't a problem!

    That being said, I love love love the look of a flat island in a lot of kitchens, but just not for our space. We have our cooktop on our island, and I personally wouldn't want a flat space with a cooktop. It seems that, for me (totally personal decision here), I would not like having either a cooktop or sink in a flat island, as I think water or cooking splashes would ease their way over the flat space. If I did a flat island, it would have neither cooktop nor sink (well, maybe a small prep sink...)

    I really love our island and its utility. I love that it does offer some division between the cooking and living space. I also realize that it's certainly not for everyone.

    Here's a couple of pictures:

    our kitchen table is under the hanging quilt:

    view of kitchen

    island with cooktop

    view from living area:

    view from family room area into kitchen


    clipped on: 12.13.2010 at 10:29 pm    last updated on: 12.13.2010 at 10:31 pm

    Quick on the draw ... slots for knives in counter top

    posted by: gursk on 11.30.2010 at 04:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

    Hi all,

    Continuing the kitchen planning saga and trying to eke out every inch.

    Our microwave is going to sit below the counter, under what will be our prep area.

    The microwave will not fill the full depth of the cabinet and there will be a large empty space behind it. So, as ever, my mind is churning away at how to take advantage of that space.

    I have come up with an idea to have knife slots cut directly into the quartz counter top. This would have the knives easily accessible for prep with the blades hanging down into that space behind the microwave.

    I've done all sorts of research here & online and have found a few examples of this done in butcher block counters, but none in quartz.

    Anyone done something similar with quartz?

    What about knife storage in the counter?

    Do you love it? Do you hate it?

    My DH was thinking of taking this idea to 11 by insetting a block of butcher block into the counter (he likes the idea of removing the block for cleaning). He would have a 12x5 hole cut in the counter and either leave a small edge/lip on the underside to set the block into or use bracing on the underside to keep the block in place. Potentially,(to earn bonus engineering guy points) he was also thinking of adding a stainless steel insert that would sit below the block to catch any spills etc.

    Any thoughts?

    The tetris-free kitchen thanks you!!!


    clipped on: 11.30.2010 at 08:17 pm    last updated on: 11.30.2010 at 08:17 pm

    RE: Point of order: floor plans (Follow-Up #4)

    posted by: bmorepanic on 11.28.2010 at 10:53 am in Kitchens Forum

    The plan

    In Progress - how the floor plan becomes real.

    Lastly, this is from a long time ago. Its a simple chart of idealized zones(labels for work areas), their relationships to each other (actually carrying out activities), and what might be kept in any given area. It becomes a drawing how the way to make your kitchen a more effective place to work in. It also gives you an unemotional way to judge a floor plan and weigh trade-offs.


    clipped on: 11.28.2010 at 11:39 am    last updated on: 11.28.2010 at 11:40 am

    RE: Kitchen works well! (Follow-Up #11)

    posted by: judydel on 11.13.2010 at 05:58 pm in Kitchens Forum

    Cathy, I'd love to see photos of your kitchen in the garden shed. What an interesting idea. Yes, I've been called crazy once or twice! It wouldn't be so bad if I was home during the week. But I drive from CT to NYC each day (2.5 hour drive each way) because my daughter is a pre-professional ballet student. So I did all my canning, dehydrating, freezing, etc on weekends and late at night.

    Island, I've posted photos of my kitchen in various stages in the past. But it seems GW doesn't "hold onto" old posts and photos anymore. So I'll repost some here. These photos are about a year old and show the project in various stages of not being completed, lol. I'm so happy we're almost done, actually once the crown molding is installed, our kitchen project is finally complete and I'll post photos in the Finished Kitchens Blog.




    New mud room

    Combination Beverage Center/Garden Sink/Egg Washing/Drying Station, lol.


    clipped on: 11.20.2010 at 10:39 pm    last updated on: 11.20.2010 at 10:39 pm

    RE: Kitchen Layout Opinions (Follow-Up #2)

    posted by: judydel on 11.14.2010 at 10:50 pm in Kitchens Forum

    I like the design with the stove on the bi-level island. I have mine on my peninsula with a raised bar like you show. I haven't found it to be a safety issue in the least! I love standing at the stove and looking into the dining area (instead of a wall). Before this reno we had our stove on the peninsula without a raised bar or seating and it also overlooked the kitchen table area. I adore this set up. I've lived with this set up for over 20 years. And I also broke another rule that some GW'ers shudder about . . . I don't have an exhaust fan . . . and I never, ever have any problems with odors or grime. Must be the way I cook?

    Anyway, your design shows plenty of prep space to the right of the sink, easy access to the refrigerator and to the sink so that family/friends can get a drink or wash up, etc without having to interrupt the cook. I like it . . . I think it's workable.



    range on peninsula -- chose not to have ANY ventilation hood or downdraft
    clipped on: 11.16.2010 at 09:02 pm    last updated on: 11.16.2010 at 09:02 pm

    RE: Would you remove raised bar when.... (Follow-Up #2)

    posted by: rjr220 on 10.26.2010 at 07:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

    We did exactly what you described, including making the window larger. It opens up into the computer/rec room. Here is what we started out with:


    and here is the same view after the redo

    New kit

    Here is the old view from the computer room into the kitchen:


    and the new:

    And one more view:

    We, too, wondered if we were making the right decision -- and we LOVE it. It is so much handier than the raised bar. When we have a buffet I move the chairs from the peninsula to the pass-thru and the kids eat there. It really makes the kitchen look bigger. No problems with splashing, either.I think we have about 18 inches from the sink to the other side.

    It's great for unloading groceries, too. I come in from the computer room and put the bags on the pass thru. Decreases the pathway and heavy loads!

    Go for it!


    clipped on: 10.26.2010 at 08:54 pm    last updated on: 10.26.2010 at 08:54 pm

    RE: Blind corner pull out (Follow-Up #4)

    posted by: avesmor on 09.03.2010 at 10:50 am in Kitchens Forum

    I have a horrible blind corner, and would love to see what you end up getting! Are any of these what you're thinking about, or similar?

    The issue of things falling might not be so immediate since they have the rails. But they are pricey!

    Tagging along to see others' suggestions. Blind corner owners - unite!


    clipped on: 10.21.2010 at 03:25 pm    last updated on: 10.21.2010 at 03:25 pm

    Another satisfied Bucks County Soapstone Customer

    posted by: mfhoop on 08.31.2010 at 08:19 pm in Kitchens Forum

    So, big progress today! Thirteen weeks into the project, we got our counters installed today by Bucks County Soapstone. We think they're fantastic and couldn't recommend them more highly.

    Our island is so big that we had to use two separate slabs, but they did such a good job of matching the two slabs that it's virtually impossible to tell. We also splurged on their custom sinks, including the block sink with the bow; it's really, really cool! Here are some pics...










    clipped on: 10.20.2010 at 12:41 pm    last updated on: 10.20.2010 at 12:41 pm