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RE: Mudroom locker systems from cabinet companies? (Follow-Up #22)

posted by: soonermagic on 11.13.2007 at 12:33 am in Building a Home Forum

Here's our on-site built cubbies:

I had intended that the top remain open and usable for a chargins station (had outlets installed above each cubby), but once built I realized they were way too tall (9 foot ceilingss), so I had the cabinet maker add doors. Now, I store seldom-used items up there.


clipped on: 04.30.2014 at 10:04 am    last updated on: 04.30.2014 at 10:04 am

RE: Paper Towels--To Those With Built In Holders (Follow-Up #38)

posted by: 2LittleFishies on 01.18.2013 at 12:49 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to update. You can see my original set up above. The dowel was allowing paper towels to roll out too quickly. For a while I had a paper back book wedged in between the towels and the wood so it would pull slower. The other issue is that often even if you grabbed a towel quickly and they didn't roll out passed the cabinetry it would unroll a bit in the cubby.

Anyway, I instead bought one of those Perfect Tear Holders from Amazon. I also have the vertical one many of you also own that just sits on the counter and it allows you to tear off one piece. It clicks each time you pull it.

I had my cabinetmaker redo the cubby, removing the dowel system and using this instead. He had to take the towel holder apart somehow to make it work and fit in the space correctly so that the roll wouldn't sit too high or too low. I LOVE IT! This works MUCH better. For any of you doing a paper towel holder I'd recommend using one of these- or something similar- as you'll get better results : )

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Here is the holder beforehand:
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Here is the product on Amazon


clipped on: 02.06.2014 at 11:19 pm    last updated on: 02.06.2014 at 11:19 pm

RE: Paper Towels--To Those With Built In Holders (Follow-Up #27)

posted by: 2LittleFishies on 12.11.2012 at 11:53 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hello All! I Just came back to this thread to get some hints on how I can get our paper towel roll to not roll so much that too many towels come out. I think beagles has a spring and I'd love a pic. My cabinetmaker isn't aware of any 3rd party solutions for this.

He DID, however, do what I think marcolo mentioned above. I didn't really ask him to specifically although I did tell him I wanted to try to store towels behind it... It's quite tight to pull out (which is good) so perhaps he made it so the glides are not as smooth here?

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Pretty Cool! NOW, if I could just get the dowel to roll more slowly or figure out the spring thing!


clipped on: 02.06.2014 at 11:17 pm    last updated on: 02.06.2014 at 11:17 pm

RE: 2LittleFishies Yellow Kitchen Reveal- Part DEUX!!! (Follow-Up #75)

posted by: 2LittleFishies on 06.25.2013 at 08:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

addycal75- They are 1 1/4"

hmgbrd5- Thanks so much!

Ott2- The paper towel opening is 15" wide x 5" high.... however the inside of the space is 5 3/4" high...
We have to use standard paper towel rolls as the super big ones (like at Costco) are too big to fit inside.
Here's a thread on the holder you probably have seen already but in case others need it : ) Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: PAPER TOWEL THREAD


clipped on: 02.06.2014 at 11:16 pm    last updated on: 02.06.2014 at 11:16 pm

RE: Which Miele Dishwasher is the right choice? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: akcorcoran on 08.29.2013 at 01:33 am in Appliances Forum

OK, I have to say that after adding a two-story addition to our house, including a heavenly new master bath for us, BOTH my husband and I say that the single best change is our Miele Futura Dimension Plus! It's the sneaky, not well-advertised model at the top of the dimension line but before you get to the Diamond line "(and jump $700!)

And, I largely credit to that to two aspects of the Miele - yes, it cleans incredibly well and you can load a ton into it, plus it looks beautiful, but it's the 3D cutlery tray AND the auto-open drying that have changed our life!

Like the poster above, we leave the 3D down all the time and not only put utensils and knives in it, but also tops to water bottles or our apple slicer, graters, etc. It's fantastic.

But the auto-open dry is the KEY feature in why we went with the Futura Dimension Plus - it's the only Dimension that has the auto-open dry.

Now, it depends on whether you live in house that uses plastic cubs or tupperware containers, but that auto-open means that every single thing is dry in the dishwasher when you go to unload it - and compared to the Bosch and a lot of others, that's amazing. We have a Bosch in our wet bar = which I got because I thought it would be great for the china and wine glasses, but everything is only 70% dry. When we open our Miele after the auto-open, everything is dry including our plastic glasses and the kids' lunch containers. And, that's like the whole cup rack!

For the same price as the high-end Kitchen Aid or Bosch, the Miele FDP is a much, much better purchase!

I was helping someone else and posted pics of our dishwasher after a cycle to show how crazy you can load it and everything is still clean, but more importantly how much plastic that is dry in our cup rack, plus all we fit in that 3D rack. It's crazy!

Good luck - you won't regret it!


clipped on: 09.28.2013 at 06:52 pm    last updated on: 09.28.2013 at 06:52 pm

RE: Pros, please share illustrated lessons? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: jakuvall on 09.20.2013 at 09:34 am in Kitchens Forum

Not going to publicly dis a clients taste. I never see a comment in a reveal like "what were you thinking?"
and I really don't have pics of the few that got away.

As to context- only the occasional job where the architecture dictates the style- more often the clients décor and home details do.
So it's fine to turn your raised ranch into a Tuscan villa, we're Americans and do what we want, besides the US is the home of Kitsch (hey want an Elvis room? :) Just be consistent.

Absolutely the single most useful thing I learned in design school-
never fall in love with your design- don't let a great idea ruin a design, use it another time

-step back and see the whole, get your nose out of the details now and then, especially finishes, just remember "God is in the details" (Mies)
-it's hard to get hurt with understatement- would you wear that combination to a formal occasion?
-understand what mathematicians mean by elegant
-from GW: only one clown
-Be cautious with elevations- will you ever really see that view (often-no)- they can tyrannize you
-symmetry originally meant balanced- bilateral symmetry means equal
-equal can bet boring- look for harmony
-bilateral symmetry is more important on uppers, the further you get away from the center the less it matters
-lining up objects in rooms- if you're doing the glass house in New Canaan by Johnson and do it that well then fine- if not, get over it.
-challenge all of your ideas regularly
-there are more kinds of contrast than light/dark-use them

Kitchen specific
-Avoid cabinets under 15" wide
-never leave less than 8" open at the top
-3" molding to the ceiling is wimpy
-more than 6" to an 8ft ceiling is overkill
-there are more choices than "crown" but be careful, understand molding design
-architecture is about space, give things room
-don't fill every inch of every wall
-give door casings at least 2" unless there is absolutely no choice, same for windows except to resolve backsplash finish (good reason to decide the splash eh)
-DO NOT line up uppers and lowers, it is amateurish and doesn't work
-don't place a bifold susan next to a range that sticks out
- fit the storage to the items and avoid stacking, drawers are nice but convenience comes first.
-for corners do the math before deciding something "takes up too much space", it usually doesn't
-avoid morgue tables
- avoid oversize runs of counter - horizontal surfaces without a dedicated purpose will attract things you don't want
-decide what goes on the counter ahead of time and locate it, find a place for the rest or it will migrate
-adding a 10 foot addition does not automatically improve a kitchen, just makes it bigger and costs more-plan it all ahead of time
-do you really need all that "stuff"

-There are no rules but follow the guidelines
-Everyone has some form of OCD- entertain it
-Fit the job to the client
-If a client doesn't do something I don't like I'm not doing my job properly"
-Don't scratch things that don't itch.


clipped on: 09.22.2013 at 05:15 pm    last updated on: 09.22.2013 at 05:16 pm

2LittleFishies Yellow Kitchen Reveal !!! LONG!

posted by: 2LittleFishies on 02.08.2013 at 09:07 am in Kitchens Forum

OK, here is my finished yellow kitchen thread! Can't believe it is here!
I can't thank ALL of you enough (or at least those who shared in my vision!) for all the help. Like most of us I really spent so much time on every decision. I joke that nothing happened by accident.
There are so many of you that contributed your thoughts and ideas but I want to especially thank lavender_lass and marcolo for all of their wise words and helping me find and stay true to my vision.
I found the hardest part of renovating is not going off track every time you have to make a decision and not letting others sway you to do things you really don't want to do!

What is NOT finished:
*Still waiting on banquette bench for between the 2 built-ins
*New Dining Table
*2 ends of the Backsplash Tile are not installed yet b/c they were sent back to manufacturer to get a bull-nosed edge.
*Custom light switch cover to match BS tile.
*Deciding on window treatments-whether or not to do them...


*Custom Cabinetry- Gilreath Cabinetry in Harrisburg PA
Perimeter is 36" finished, island is 34" high, baking area 33" high

*Colors of Cabinetry- BM Barley 199, BM Mascarpone AF-20 Cabinets were finished with a catalyzed lacquer (not paint) and clear top coat.

*Wall Paint- Kitchen- BM Elephant Tusk OC-8
Dining Area/Living Room BM Woodlawn Blue HC-147
Living Room BM Putnam Ivory HC-39

*Countertops- Vermont Imperial Danby Marble 3cm (purchased from PMI in NJ); Black Walnut 2" Thick Island Top finished with Satin Waterlox (constructed by our Cabinet Maker)

*Island Size is 9 feet x 51 inches *We keep 5 stools at the island but 6 fit fine (2 at the end)

Thermador CIT365GM 36" Induction Cooktop (mirrored finish)
Electrolux Icon Double Ovens- Professional Series E30EW85GPS6
Electrolux Icon French Door Fridge- Professional Series E23BC68JPS5
Bosch 800 Plus Dishwasher- SHV7ER53UC
Miele H4080BM Speed Oven
Marvel 60RDEBBO Fridge Drawers

*Floors- Red Oak finished with Minwax Provincial Stain and Vermeister Commercial Finish Poly. Matte

Renovation Hardware Gilmore Cup Pulls in Chrome
Top Knobs Cabinet Latches in Chrome
Emtek Old Town Clear Knob in Chrome
Schaub & Company 6" Chrome Pulls and 12" pull for Dishwasher

UCL & In Cabs- Seagull LED lights 3000K temp
Drum Pendants- Lamps Plus
5 light Chandelier- Visual Comfort- Michael S Smith Eiffel Chandelier in Polished Nickel

Main- Kohler Whitehaven K-6489 36" Apron Front Cast Iron Sink
Prep- Kohler K-6584 Iron/Tones Cast Iron Sink

Main- Moen Woodmere in Chrome S7208C
Prep- Moen Woodmere Prep Faucet in Chrome S6208C
Soap dispensers- Moen
Pot Filler- Moen Showhouse

*Insinkerator Evolution Essential Disposal
Insinkerator Instahot Faucet F-HC2215 Chrome
Insinkerator SST-FLTR

*Backsplash by Wizard Tile
Design is Ribbons & Feathers with Crackle Glaze in Custom Color

*Stools- Counter Height from Grandinroad

BEFORE: This project included pushing out the entire back of our 1950 Cape 7 feet. Also, removing about 5' of our living room wall which involved moving the basement steps over. Removing a wall between the dining room and kitchen, adding a covered porch. We also did all new siding and other exterior things but I'll stick to inside.

Kitchen was originally a galley measuring about 19' x 9 1/2'. Dining Room was about 8 1/2' wide. Now it's really one large room 28' x 16 1/2'. Kitchen side alone is 16' x 16 1/2'

Choosing reveal photos was worse than narrowing down pics for our Wedding Album! SO sorry in advance for the quantity! Hopefully you'll never have to ask me for more pics : )

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Most of my drawers like these are adjustable which I'd highly recommend. If they weren't I wouldn't have been able to remove partitions to fit taller pieces.

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Key Cabinet

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My KitchenAid

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TV Pocket Doors Over Fridge

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Thanks, Breezy : )

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Storage at Back of Island (Shelves are 9 1/2" deep)

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MY ORGANIZATIONAL SPOT (cork back, file drawer, printer, BluRay player, desk items, charging drawer)

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CUSTOM SLIDING DOORS-- These were at one point supposed to be pocket doors but I didn't want to close off views by having 3' of wall pocket on either side so came up with this which is working well at blocking sound but still gives an open feeling to the space.
I also love the 3 lights on the top so it's less busy and easier to clean!

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The blue looks brighter than it does IRL:

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THANK YOU GW for this FUN, FULFILLING, (and often STRESSFUL) Experience : )

This post was edited by 2LittleFishies on Tue, Mar 5, 13 at 19:48


clipped on: 09.14.2013 at 06:26 pm    last updated on: 09.14.2013 at 06:26 pm

RE: How deep are your mudroom lockers? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: hollyh3kids on 05.23.2010 at 01:59 pm in Building a Home Forum

I LOVE LOVE LOVE our mudroom cubbies! They are 26in wide and 20in deep. We have a hook on the back and hooks on each side. So each cubby has three spots to hang stuff. You need to really think about the width because in the winter you have thick puffy coats that need room to hang. We have no problems with room. We also love NO 'bins' underneath for shoes. We are a family that loves to kick off our shoes rather than have to 'pick' them up to place them on a ledge or in a basket. Works great for us and keeps them out of the walkway. Here is a pic:


clipped on: 09.12.2013 at 11:38 am    last updated on: 09.12.2013 at 11:38 am

RE: toaster oven in cabinet (Follow-Up #23)

posted by: smarge on 02.12.2010 at 10:58 am in Kitchens Forum

Um, where was the fire extinguisher that is required to be mounted in view in a kitchen?

FWIW, my Cuisinart Toaster oven is awesome and I highly recommend it. The space I store it in my kitchen was designed in order to accommodate it.

There are 9.5" between the top of the oven and the bottom of the upper cabinet above it. 4" on each side and 1.5" to the rear. The inside of the upper cabinet doesn't get as warm from the toaster oven as the rest of the uppers to from the UC lighting installed there!

My white Kountry Kraft cabinets look like new inside with zero discoloration and we've used the oven almost daily since moving in in July 2008.

That said, we use basic intelligence when using the oven. The door is obviously open while being used. The door is not closed until the oven is able to be touched.

Oh yeah. We have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen under both sinks. Not "code" bc they are supposed to be mounted in a visible place, but the kids, the sitter and any other guests who might cook are shown the location.

We also have fire extinguishers on every floor of the house and in our garage.

We also have a family fire escape plan that our kids both know. (We've even practiced it bc their school wants us to each October.)

Also have a hardwired, monitored security and fire alarm system throughout the house. We found out it takes less than 4 minutes for the fire department to get to our house bc my son was curious what would happen if he pushed the "test" button on the smoke detector.

A toaster oven installed in cabinetry is not for everyone. But, I think we're good.


clipped on: 09.09.2013 at 10:23 pm    last updated on: 09.09.2013 at 10:23 pm

RE: toaster oven in cabinet (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: smarge on 02.10.2010 at 12:50 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's mine. Note, we recessed this portion about 4" into the wall to allow the doors to close without having a bump-out into the kitchen counter space.

Appliance garage (recessed)

interior measurement 17 inches


See the tape above? That's where the fabricator had to put a seam. The maroons actually left that back piece completely out of the installation! Imagine my surprise when I went to put my toaster oven away and saw a 4" hole in the back of the space!


clipped on: 09.09.2013 at 09:04 am    last updated on: 09.09.2013 at 09:05 am

RE: Advice Needed for Large Kitchen (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: live_wire_oak on 09.08.2013 at 08:29 am in Kitchens Forum

It has the usual problem of a too large kitchen. The work zones are inefficient because they are too spread out, and the scale of everything is off. This is a cathedral, not a kitchen. Where's the permanently installed rolling ladder in order to access the uppers? The two islands aid nothing. It's an affectation, not a functional division. It doesn't create a social zone with the seating, and the back to back sinks (with the DW's on the wrong sides of those sinks) make the one island virtually useless. It's also very ill proportioned to have the world's biggest U unless you have a basket of roller skates at the entrance to issue to everyone.

I'm not against large kitchen,or a visually pleasing kitchen, but I'm against ones that wouldn't work for a couple of cooks for a meal for two, and still won't work for a team of caterers either. You want to preach a Sunday sermon from the pulpit of the range? Or do you want to prepare a meal? Do you actually cook? What kind of cooking do you do? Are the parameters of the space set? Creating a "open galley" by having a single island parallel with the range wall would work so much better. And then you could lose about a third of the depth of the kitchen with zero loss of function or visual appeal. In fact, the functionality factor would rise!

BTW, expense may not be an issue during the paper planning stage, but are you really willing and able to spend 250K on a kitchen in a 10M house? If you are, then why DIY it? Seek out one of the top designers in the field to assist you here. Susan Serra. Mick DeGuillio. Johnny Grey. You need a pro who knows what they're doing to do this for you.


clipped on: 09.08.2013 at 09:49 pm    last updated on: 09.08.2013 at 09:49 pm

RE: Refrigerator Drawers - Marvel v. Perlick... (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: westsider40 on 08.27.2013 at 10:32 pm in Appliances Forum

Love my elux drawers. perfect. Quiet. They hold so,so much. All too often, I buy way too much produce and am happy to say, I dump it all in the elux drawers.

My fridge drawers, now 2.5 years old are a kitchen fave. Or is it my 30 Bosch induction?


clipped on: 09.08.2013 at 07:46 pm    last updated on: 09.08.2013 at 07:46 pm

Stone Information and Advice (& Checklists)

posted by: buehl on 04.14.2008 at 02:56 am in Kitchens Forum

First off, I want to give a big thank-you to StoneGirl, Kevin, Joshua, Mimi, and others (past and current) on this forum who have given us many words of wisdom concerning stone countertops.

I've tried to compile everything I saved over the past 8 months that I've been on this Forum. Most of it was taken from a write-up by StoneGirl (Natural stone primer/granite 101); other threads and sources were used as well.

So...if the experts could review the information I've compiled below and send me comments (here or via email), I will talk to StarPooh about getting this on the FAQ.

Stone Information, Advice, and Checklists:

In an industry that has no set standards, there are many unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject.

Slab Selection:

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

  • Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued, or brushed, should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches, or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man-made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab when looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab.

    Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

  • Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This was done at the plant where the slabs were finished. This backing adds support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often, these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.

  • Cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little.

    • Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e., there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure.

    • A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole other can of worms.

    • Resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer.

    • Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed do not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but it is still resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Tests (especially for Absolute Black) (using a sample of YOUR slab):

  • To verify you have true AB and not dyed: Clean with denatured alcohol and rub marble polishing powder on the face. (Get denatured alcohol at Home Depot in the paint department)

  • Lemon Juice or better yet some Muratic Acid: will quickly show if the stone has alot of calcium content and will end up getting etched. This is usually chinese stone, not indian.

  • Acetone: The Dying usually is done on the same chinese stone. like the others said, acetone on a rag will reveal any dye that has been applied

  • Chips: Using something very hard & metal�hit the granite sharply & hard on edges to see if it chips, breaks, or cracks


  • Before the templaters get there...
    • Make sure you have a pretty good idea of your faucet layout--where you want the holes drilled for all the fixtures and do a test mock up to make sure you have accounted for sufficient clearances between each fixture.

    • Be sure you test your faucet for clearances not just between each fixture, but also between the faucet and the wall behind the faucet (if there is one). You need to be sure the handle will function properly.

    • Make sure that the cabinets are totally level (not out by more than 1/8") before the counter installers come in.

    • Check how close they should come to a stove and make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter.

    • Make sure they have the sink/faucet templates to work from.

    • Make sure have your garbage disposal air switch on hand or know the diameter

  • If you are not putting in a backsplash, tell them

  • Double check the template. Make sure that the measurements are reasonable. Measure the opening for the range.

  • Seam Placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

    Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality, and their placement�and still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

  • Factors determining seam placement:

    • The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)

    • Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available

    • Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will influence seam placement here alone.

    • Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some do not. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.

    • Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -

    • Install-ability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again, 1,001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

    You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

    With modern glues and seaming methods, a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam is done well, there is - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

    Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

  • Generally, it is not a good idea to seam over a DW because there's no support for the granite, and anything heavy placed at or near the seam would stress the stone, possibly breaking it.

  • Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece

  • Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e., eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.
    Edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world. Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.


  • Seams:
    One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum [StoneGirl]

    • A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:
      • It should be flat. According to the Marble Institute of America (MIA) a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.

      • It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)

      • The color on either side of the seam should match as closely as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.

      • Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases, the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.

      • The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge, you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.

      • The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)

      • The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as closely as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try to make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

  • Checklist:
    • Check the seams for evenness and smoothness.

      • Make sure that the seams are neat and clean.

      • Make sure that the seams are not obvious.

      • Make sure the seams are butted tight

      • Make sure that there are no scratches, pits, or cracks

    • If sealing is necessary (not all granites need to be sealed):

      • Make sure that the granite has been sealed

      • If more than one application of sealer was applied, ask how long they waited between applications

      • Ask which sealer has been used on the granite.

    • Make sure the sink reveal is consistent all the away around

    • Check the gap of the granite at the wall junctions.

    • Check for inconsistent overhangs from the counter edges

    • Check for chips. These can be filled.

    • Make sure the top drawers open & close

    • Make sure that you can open & close your dishwasher

    • Make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter

    • Make sure that you have the appropriate clearances for your appliances

    • Check the edge all around, a good edge should have the following characteristics:
      • Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull, or waxy.

      • The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.

      • The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.

      • A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.

      • A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly, and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanical fabrication (i.e., CNC machines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

    • Run your hands around the entire laminated edge of yor counters to make sure they are smooth

    • Check surrounding walls & cabinets for damage

Miscellaneous Information:

  • More than all the above and below, though, is to be present for both the templating as well as having the templates placed on your slabs at the fabricator's
    If you canot be there, then have a lengthy conversation about seam placement, ways to match the movement, and ways to color-match the counters that will be joined at the seam

  • Find a fabricator who is a member of the SFA

  • When they polish your stone for you don't let them wax it. It will look terrible in 2 months when the wax wears off.

  • Don't use the Magic Eraser on granite--especially AB

  • Any slab with more fill (resin) than stone is certainly a no-no!!

  • When you do check for scratches, have overhead lighting shining down so scratches are easier to see

  • Don't let them do cutouts in place (granite dust becomes a major issue)

  • Granite dust can be a problem...some have heard of SS appliances & hoods damaged by the dust, others have heard of drawer glides being ruined by the dust

  • If you have wood floors--especially if you're in the process of staining or finishing them--make sure that they don't spill or drip granite sealer on the wood floors. Apparently the sealer interferes with the stain or finish process.

  • Suggested Prep for Installation:
    • Remove any drawers and pullouts beneath any sections that will be cut or drilled onsite, e.g., sink cutouts and/or faucet, soap dispenser, air gap, instant hot etc. holes, cooktop cutouts.

    • Then just cover the glides themselves with a few layers of blue painter's tape (or some combo of plastic wrap and tape)

    • If you make sure to cover the top of the glides and attach some of the tape to the cab wall as well (to form sort of a seal)and cover the rest of the glides completely with tape, you should be fine.

    • Usually the fabricators will have someone holding a vacuum hose right at the spot where they are drilling or cutting, so very little granite dust should be landing on the glides. What little dust escapes the vacuum will be blocked by the layer(s) of tape.

    • When done w/installation, remove the tape and use a DustBuster (or similar) on all the cabinets and glides

  • Countertop Support:

    • If your granite is 2 cm thick, then there can be no more then 6" of of unsupported span with a 5/8" subtop

    • If your granite is 3 cm thick, then there can be no more then 10" of unsupported span - no subtop required

    • If you need support, the to determine your corbel dimensions:

    • Thickness of Stone - Dimension of Unsupported Span = Corbel Dimensino

    • i.e., an 18" total overhang in 2 cm would require a 12" corbe; the same overhang in 3 cm would require an 8" corbel


clipped on: 09.04.2013 at 10:16 pm    last updated on: 09.05.2013 at 07:23 am

RE: Kohler Stages sink? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: will2kz on 07.09.2013 at 05:59 pm in Kitchens Forum

If you search the forum for my kitchen stadium post you can see more.
Yes I got the 45 inch model. I got it into a 36 inch cabinet base and let the drainboard hang over my dishwasher. Kohler recommends a 45 inch cabinet base to hold the sink as they intend for you to use a rack that hangs under the drainboard to hold the accessories. I ditched the rack, cut off the metal tabs with a dremel, and store the accessories elsewhere. I didn't have room, like many, for a 45 inch sink base.

My cabinets are 35.5 from the floor to the bottom of the granite. It was common in the late 90's but apparently 34.5 is the new "in" height. Our old cabinets were 35.5 so not a stretch to keep it that way, and we had custom cabinets built so we could do whatever we wanted.


clipped on: 09.04.2013 at 06:30 pm    last updated on: 09.04.2013 at 06:30 pm

RE: Appliances off of craigslist ? Wolf 48' gas cooktop 1 year o (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: amcook on 01.12.2010 at 05:07 pm in Appliances Forum

I've bought and sold many things on Craigs List and have had no serious issues. That said, just like any other person to person transaction, do your research and check things out. If you are careful, you can get some great deals. The main "scam" for large items like this usually involve a few things:

1. A seller says, "There's a bunch of people before you but if you send me $50 via paypal, I'll hold it for you." Run for the hills if any seller asks for a deposit or partial payment. Pay in full when you pick up the item.

2. Stolen goods. Get the serial numbers from them and search for it online. Even a simple google of the serial number might produce some hits. Try one of several stolen item databases (link below) and local law enforcement. Some states/cities have online searches set up to report and search for stolen items via serial number. BTW, to protect yourself, it's a good idea to write down all of your serial numbers for expensive items and keep them in a locked safe or hidden somewhere. Make several copies and keep one off site. That way if you're ever robbed, you can report the items and possibly even recover them. At least you'll make it more difficult for the thief to sell the item. I started doing this with all of my photography equipment over 15 years ago.

3. Severely damaged, lemon return, or rebuilt items. Sometimes, items that were damaged due to fire or other severe circumstances can end up back in circulation. For instance, there's a fire and someone makes an insurance claim to get a range replaced. The old one goes to the junkyard where someone picks it up and gives it a new paint job and replaces a few obvious parts. Might look in decent condition but there may be unseen damage inside. To protect yourself, call the manufacturer and verify the person selling it is the registered owner and ask for a repair history on the item. Also, open the top and back if you can to see if there is any damage that is not obvious from the outside.

4. Fakes. Yep. They're out there. Back in the mid 90s there were people selling red knobs and wolf emblems to make a cheaper commercial range look like a wolf. Some might say a commercial range would be nice but realize that it may violate fire codes to install one in your home. In any case, if you buy something thinking it's a wolf, when it isn't, then you're being cheated. Best way around this is know your product. Research everything about it. That's what's great about the internet, you can get pictures and measurements and make sure you're buying what you think you're buying. Obviously also look at the serial number plate/tag to make sure model number matches.

Doing research and knowing the product can go a long way in preventing these last two problems. For instance, if you know that a 2008 Wolf range has a certain knob layout or only certain color options, then you'll know immediately if it's a fake or if it's been repainted due to damage.

Here is a link that might be useful: Slolen item database...


clipped on: 08.16.2013 at 09:04 pm    last updated on: 08.16.2013 at 09:04 pm

RE: Disposal in island prep sink? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: cpovey on 02.25.2008 at 12:09 pm in Appliances Forum

I use essentially all fresh fruits and vegetables and have a lot of scraps-consequently I use my disposal in the prep sink more than the one in the main sink.

If you compost, you obviously do not need one, but otherwise I would say yes.

You can minimize the impact of a disposal in a cabinet by getting a sink with a rear or even better, rear corner drain. This makes all the space in front of it available. My prep sink is roughly 15" square, and is a Blanco. No great affection for the brand, but they had the corner drain I was after.

I have a 1 HP disposal, air switch, 13 gallon trash can, three gallon bottles, plumbing from the floor, plus some miscellaneous items in my 24" cabinet, all because of the rear corner drain. Literally one of the best design decisions I made in the kitchen.


clipped on: 08.16.2013 at 07:35 am    last updated on: 08.16.2013 at 07:35 am

RE: Which speed oven: Miele or Advantium? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: aliris19 on 07.20.2012 at 11:27 pm in Appliances Forum

Hi - I'm not sure the speed oven will replace your toaster oven. MW, definitely. We have the low-end Miele, whatever it's called. It does not have scroll-through menus, just punch in time and you can optionally change level too.

There are a lot of buttons to press, and the learning curve is slow: the book they send is the worst manual I have received for anything ever. Still, I have learned more about using the thing and I do like it. It's a second oven for me; my other is a 36" gas. That's a large cavity so I like sometimes to use the smaller. I don't actually know how to compare energy consumption - apples and oranges in so many ways.

The 24" Miele cavity is very large for some reason. I've cooked two chickens in it a couple times, believe it or not. What I love about the electricity is, of course, that you can set the oven to come on and cook for a given amount of time: in you walk to a cooked, ready-waiting dinner. So wonderful! If I've put meat in to cook later on I've first stuffed the oven with ice packs to cool it down so as to be slightly less scary having meat sitting around uncooked. But I digress....

I haven't used the Advantium so can't comment. I was set on it until I learned that it cannot go under-counter. This is apparently something you cannot slip with with so we were stuck with the more expensive Miele.

A good piece of advice I received here is to plan cabinetry right next to the speed oven to hold its racks. You will be changing them out, probably, with some frequency so having something to hold this nearby is very helpful if you want to avoid an expensive unused box. I built a 4" drawer right underneath the 24" Miele, which just slides right into a 24" box - very easy. Underneath that I have another drawer for MW (i.e., glass pyrex) containers -- it all works out very nicely, all tucked underneath the counter.

But I still have a toaster oven out on the counter and it gets used every time anyone toasts something. You might be able to get the Miele to make some toast-facsimile but it would take vigilance and probably turning of bread, etc... a real pain. I'm definitely not willing to go there. I like that my toaster oven has a timer and shuts off appropriately. But I have enough counter space to afford this inefficiency.

If you're tempted by the lower end Miele, try to see a real live one; it seems significantly different from the high-end one though I've never seen them side-by-side.


clipped on: 08.14.2013 at 07:03 am    last updated on: 08.14.2013 at 07:03 am

RE: Kohler Stages Sink (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: buckheadhillbilly on 02.01.2012 at 09:31 am in Kitchens Forum

I adore my Kohler stages sink. I got the 36" sink. The sink bowl is about 16" x 20" interior dimensions. For me that seemed a perfect size for a prep sink. I cook alot of vegetables and wash greens, especially collards, once a week. That is big enough for all that washing without being too big.

I mentioned in my finished kitchen post that I mounted mine wrong ways around. As you can see in thephoto below, I chose to have the "sink base" be on the short end of the sink, since I have it on the corner of the island.


Underneath, I have a nifty little pullout with a small trash can and compost bin.


I cut down the compost sectioon so that it could fit under the drain pipes of the sink, and happy result of that was that the compost bin just fits in the sink under the cutting board, so I can just flick the debris off the board and into the bin.


I do use the tray and the square bowls as you can see below, and you can see how I use the space between for my compost bin in the sink below.


Or I can slide it over to cover the gap when I'm finished trimming:


Not only is the elevated stainless platfrom great for prepping meats, it is a great place to wash small things like mushrooms or brussel sprouts.


Now back to the orientation. I ditched the under the platform hanging deal and put it it my pantry to organize wraps and foils and baggies. Instead, I tucked a knife drawer in under the platform:


and put my cutting boards (including the big one that came with it) underneath when not in use. I also store the trays that came with the sink under here.


I store the bowls in the drawer just to the left of the cutting boards and use them all the time.

Hope this helps!


clipped on: 08.13.2013 at 06:03 pm    last updated on: 08.13.2013 at 06:03 pm

RE: Help with sink in island configuration (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: cloud_swift on 06.25.2011 at 01:07 pm in Kitchens Forum

You could go 45" to 51" wide. One way would be to use 30" base cabinets with a 15" to 18" wide overhang. Another would be 24" of cabinets and a 24" overhang supported by legs and a frame. (I think that 24" is too much to support cantilevered off a 24" base.) Or you could do a 12" to 15" overhang with a 36" base made of a 24" row and a 12" row of cabinets. The 12" row of cabinets either has doors on the sides or the back (under the overhang).

We used the last method above. We have our rangetop and prep sink in the island, but our prep sink is the same depth (front to back) as many main sinks so perhaps it can still help you visualize. Our island base is 36" by 96". The back row of cabinets has a 12" wide cabinet facing each side. Between those are two 24" wide 12" deep cabinets with doors under the overhang. Our overhang is 15". We were going to do 12" but we had the room and a big enough slab so we decided to go with 15" to have a bit more generous legroom.



clipped on: 08.13.2013 at 05:29 pm    last updated on: 08.13.2013 at 05:29 pm

RE: Anyone NOT have counter-depth refrigerator? Pics (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: alku05 on 01.13.2008 at 01:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

Ccat, if you're using a full depth fridge, then you want the panels to come out far enough to cover the sides (but no the doors) of the fridge. That helps to give it more of a "built-in" look.

Our fridge has tall cabinetry on both sides, so it's a little bit of a different situation than you have. We made the tall cabinets 27" deep instead of the standard 24" to hide the sides of the fridge:



Many here have used the same strategy with deeper panels to create a similar look, many with their fridge located in the same way as yours. Just be sure to pull the over-the-fridge cabinet out to be flush with the front of the panels and you'll be all set.


clipped on: 08.13.2013 at 05:25 pm    last updated on: 08.13.2013 at 05:25 pm

RE: designing an island (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: live_wire_oak on 02.08.2010 at 10:58 pm in Kitchens Forum

"Are all of these simply chosen for asthetic reasons, or are they structural, or chosen for cost reasons."

All of the above.

Cost is the usual most limiting factor, so using standard sized cabinets is the most cost effective. Counter top overhangs are usuall 1 1/2" on each side. (3" each way for an island) Standard sized cabinets are 24" deep. That leaves you with 21" open. You say you want 48" of width. That leaves 6". You could do a shallow full height cabinet on the back side of the 24" deep cabinet, but that would be a custom depth cabinet and cost more. Or, you could have a 12" (standard wall depth cabinet) as seldom used storage under the seating overhang and increase the size of your island by 6". The easiest (and cheapest) thing would be to forget that 6" and do a 42" deep island. However, how you plan to finish off the back of the island comes into play.

Again, it's cost driven as well as aesthetic driven.

The cheapest way to do an island back is with a pony wall covered in drywall. That's 4 1/2". So, if costs are a concern, you need to plan the depth with that in mind. If you feel like dressing it up some, then you can do a simple 3/4" (NOT a thin skin if you're doing an overhang that will need support!) paneled back from your cabinet company. Be sure to plan the whole overhang with sufficient support, and the places where you are going to attach that support if it will be visible like a corbel. If you want an even more decorative island back, then order cabinet doors to cover the 3/4" panel. Make sure you get the sizing correct, and factor in the size of the corbels and where they will attach. Using a 3" filler in between the doors gives a place for the corbels to attach, but you need to cover that with a filler overlay or a decorative filler overlay like a fluted filler overlay. Making the filler 6" and using a decorative overlay and plinth blocks really dresses it up. Or, you can use split posts and full sized posts to create a "table".

There are a huge range of choices, but each cabinet line offers different decorative or functional solutions. You either need a copy your cabinet line's spec book, or have a competent designer guide you on anything more than the simplest of islands.


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RE: Island with cabinets on both sides as well as seating on one? (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: cloud_swift on 04.30.2012 at 02:02 am in Kitchens Forum

We have cabinets on both sides similar to what you're thinking of. Our island base is 8' by 36" with a row of 24" deep cabinets on the kitchen side and a 12" deep row on the family room side under the seating overhang.

Rather than having all the doors under the seating overhang, we put a 24" deep 12" wide cabinet on each end facing the side of the island. We put dividers in the bottom of one of them for storing our baking sheets, cookie sheets and cooling racks and a pull out above where we store some baking pans on their sides. In the other we have 3 pull out shelves.

In between those, we have two 24" wide 12" deep cabinets. We thought we would put seasonal or rarely used items in them, but one of them we ended up using to store boxed things like crackers that it is nice to have closer by than the pantry. It works out well having them in the shallow cabinet - easy to reach down and grab something.




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RE: How many inches is your island overhang (for barstools)? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: azstoneconsulting on 01.14.2008 at 10:18 am in Kitchens Forum

try hard:

12 inches is kind of the "norm" for an overhang, with
16 inches being the max.

depending on the material you choose to use for your countertops -
you may need corbels to support - you may not - this will
depend entirely on what you use for your countertops.

hope that helps


Kevin M. Padden MIA SFA
Fabricator, Trainer & Consultant to the Natural Stone Indusrty


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RE: To Pot Filler or not to Pot Filler (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: erikanh on 08.16.2009 at 03:21 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's my potfiller and chef sink.


For some odd reason, DH (who doesn't cook) really wanted a potfiller. I had to go with a deckmount fixture because the plumber was concerned about frozen pipes in the winter due to it being an exterior wall. They were a big splurge, especially since my prep sink is so nearby, and I wouldn't have considered it if I didn't have so much counterspace on both sides of the cooktop. I cook a lot of pasta (DH's favorite) and it's so handy to be able to drain boiling pots of water into that little sink. My colander just happens to fit perfectly in it.


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Kohler Stages Sink: review after 6 weeks of use

posted by: rjr220 on 06.12.2010 at 05:44 pm in Kitchens Forum

There have been some threads here regarding the Kohler Stages sink -- I saw it while planning my kitchen and knew that it was the sink I wanted -- and in a way, planned part of my kitchen around it. I've been using it now for about 6 weeks, and thought I would post my experience thus far with it. I chose the 45 inch version, and installed the Grohe K4 in the middle of the basin part of the sink.

The sink comes with a wood cutting board, a large plastic tray/cutting board, a smaller tray/cutting board, 6 porcelain prep bowls, and an accessory rack that hooks on the shallow end of the sink. The accessory rack is meant to hold the plastic cutting boards/trays and the prep bowls. It will not hold the wood cutting board. I chose not to install the rack, but instead put a drawer beneath the shallow end of the sink to hold knives (it's the "anything that cuts" drawer); and a pull-out garbage below that drawer. I store the cutting boards upright below the sink, in a small divider that I got from BB&B.

In order to get the drawer under the shallow end of the shelf, the left side of the drawer had to be shaved down a bit, and a notch put in the back of the drawer to allow for the hook that was meant to hold the accessory shelf.

As I said above, the wood cutting board is large and heavy. If you get this sink -- whether or not you choose to use the accessory tray, you need to plan on where to store this. Under the sink is working fine for me. But, be aware, it weighs 12.5 pounds! It is a lovely board, though, and I put the beeswax/mineral oil on it that I use on my soapstone.

The Grohe K4 is perfect for the sink. The hose reaches to the far corner of the shallow end, and the water goes right into the drain. It does splash, but that has something to do with the insinkerator cover, not the sink or the faucet. I love the K4!

As others have mentioned, the deep sink is marvelous. I am short, and worried about having to bend over and reach in, but that hasn't been a problem. The sink is deep enough to hide dirty dishes in when the DW isn't available.

I also like the size of the deep basin, along with the shallower "prep" end. I hand wash pots and pans in a dishpan, put them on the in-sink rack, rinse, and then put them up on the shallow end of the sink until the kids FINALLY come to dry them.

I also like the shallow end to help separate the "clean dirty" and contaminated dirty items. For example, if I cut up meat, I put the knife in the deep end of the sink. If I have something that I've used, but may want to use it again, but it isn't contaminated, I'll put it on the shallow side of the sink. Kind of like what you do when you have 2 basins.

I don't have 2 sinks, so this sink is my prep and clean up sink. It is large enough so that I can be prepping at one end, and my kids/husband washing at the other. The cutting boards fitting neatly into the sink and extending the counter is really handy. I am short, so what I really like is that a cutting board is no higher than the counter. I'm not so crazy about the porcelain prep bowls that come with the sink -- I wish they were plastic and not as heavy, and a bit shorter. In the video they show fitting the prep bowls into the large tray --what I do is use the wood cutting board and slide it partially over the sink. I put the prep bowls on the shallow prep end of the sink, and then scoop the items into the bowls. Like this, except in this example I'm making salad and just put the salad bowls on the sink:


I also just cut and slide cut items directly into the pan I'm using -- here I'm making a roasted tomato soup and just shoved the onions into the roast pan

In the background of the above picture you can see a white prep dish with cherry tomatoes. Those prep dishes are a perfect size to put on the shelf while I'm prepping and sliding the items.

The sink itself has zero radius corners on the ends of the sink, but the bottom front and back are rounded, more like a traditional sink. It's been easy to clean, I just spray the sink and the rack down at night with a cleaner, and then take the rack out, wipe down the sink, and then put the rack in, wipe it down and rinse it all. The corners don't gather any junk.

So, is the sink worth the hype? I like the design, I am using it like the designers intended -- I've just personalized it a bit. I reach for my prep bowls and salad bowls before their prep bowls. I think the accessory tray isn't worth the space it requires -- the drawer and garbage space was better use to me. But, I am very happy with the sink, and would definately get it again.

Hope this is helpful to anyone thinking of getting the Stages.


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RE: Best induction cooktops (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: fsteph on 08.07.2013 at 08:25 am in Appliances Forum

I have a 36" Frameless Thermador flush mounted in my granite. It's simply amazing. looks great and is so easy to cook with and of course clean. The hobs are well placed, easy to see. I love the power boost function to boil super fast, the timers on all hobs and the large hob in the middle. Here's a pic of it installed.


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Bosch warming drawer anyone?

posted by: Kitten1313 on 07.06.2013 at 04:21 pm in Appliances Forum

The Bosch is under $1,000 and has by far the most interior space (2.6 cf). 5 cooking modes, timer, and "vents", which i assume are for humidity control.

Curious if anyone has purchased one of these recently, or heard anything about them.


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RE: Do we believe Consumer Reports (wall ovens) (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: deeageaux on 08.01.2013 at 04:47 pm in Appliances Forum

Very rarely does CR say that premium brands are the best, outside of Lexus and now Tesla cars.

CR is in the business of finding "best buys" or some low end product that is just as good as a mid range product. And giving number 1 status to a mid range product that is just as good as a premium product.

If they did not find these conclusions what is the point of buying a CR magazine or becoming a "member" and paying "membership fees" ?

They gave the Bluestar 22k btu burner a good but not great rating for high heat.

A few years ago they rated Miele Optima dead last for dishwashers. Behind GE and Hotpoint. Dead last.

I agree with them generally about a third of the time, disagree a third, and vehemently disagree another third of the time.

How they construct some of their test and what they prioritize is sometimes ridiculous.

What CR is really good for is checking if an item has a horrible reliability/durability rating. If they say it is extremely bad in those areas you generally want to scratch it of your list. Even here, sometimes a functionally superior product can have a failure rate of 3% while another product has a 1% failure rate. CR would tell you to avoid the product with three times the failure rate. But maybe for you the superior functionality and the still low probability of getting a lemon is worth the risk.


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RE: Double Wall Oven - Thermador or Kitchen Aid? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: bridemimi on 08.09.2013 at 03:55 pm in Appliances Forum

FYI I have a brand new (very end of May) KA double electric and convection oven and wish I didn't. See my recent post. I am now wishing I had gone with Electrolux, or better yet, a good old range :(


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RE: Warming drawer - do you use? Where in kitchen? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: buehl on 03.01.2010 at 12:21 am in Kitchens Forum

The most important thing that distinguishes a regretted Warming Drawer (WD) and a much-used WD is...location, location, location!

The best location for a warming drawer is next to or under your cooktop or range. It should be close enough that it's easy to use and you don't have to walk far w/the hot pan/dish.

Probably the best height is in the position of the middle drawer of a standard height 3-drawer drawer base...not under a wall oven, the bottom of a range, or the bottom drawer position in a drawer base. However, if you have no choice and it's b/w locating it far away or near the floor, then I think height is less important than proximity to the cooktop/range...i.e., better close by and low than far away and high!

When asked here a couple of years ago who used/did not use their WD, the overwhelming majority fell into two camps:

Those who had placed their warming drawer a fair distance from their range/cooktop and did not use it


Those who had placed their warming drawer next to or under their cooktop/range and did use it (for its intended purpose!)

The other thing you have to get in the habit of doing is turning it on 10 minutes or so b/f you use it. I usually turn it on when I begin cooking. You want it warm when you put the food in it, not after!

So, to answer your questions....

  • I use my warming drawer quite a bit, 4 or 5 nights a week, at least

  • I use it to...

    ....* keep veggies warm b/c I usually cook them separately in the MW

    ....* keep a meal warm if someone has a meeting or game and cannot be home

    ....* keep any food warm when the rest of the meal isn't ready

    ....* to warm plates for dinner and serving bowls for potatoes, veggies, etc.

  • It's located next to my cooktop and in the position of the middle drawer in a 30" 3-drawer base.

    Warming drawer with cooktop to the right...

  • NOTES:

    clipped on: 08.10.2013 at 03:40 pm    last updated on: 08.10.2013 at 03:40 pm

    RE: Small things that get forgotten (Follow-Up #64)

    posted by: Laura12 on 06.12.2012 at 09:22 pm in Building a Home Forum

    Here are links to some of the earlier threads similar threads . . . Dream Thread! (What do you wish you had now?) - unique/favorite features in your build.... - Things you couldn't live without or wish you had added - What things did you find needed adjusting or changed? - is there anything you wish you had done - What about your new build makes your life easier; what doesn't ? - Brands/Products That I'd Use Again - Share your best sites for deals on supplies! - To help others - Things I would do different and things i love! - Things I wish I'd specified on my plans - It's been two years...what I've learned, would change, etc... - Biggest Mistakes? - Help!!! Have I forgotten anything? - designing electrical in house - doing whole house audio


    clipped on: 08.07.2013 at 04:53 pm    last updated on: 08.07.2013 at 04:53 pm

    RE: Small things that get forgotten (Follow-Up #56)

    posted by: Laura12 on 06.03.2012 at 01:19 pm in Building a Home Forum

    All the suggestions posted on this thread have been so valuable, though I'm sure many of you (like myself) find your head spinning with all the ideas, so I just sat down and categorized them all!

    Closet & Organization
    - Plugs in several closets
    - Make sure your closet has enough space for both double hung rods, and singles to accomadate long clothes
    - Full size broom cupboard in pantry or laundry room to hide all the cleaning items away from sight.
    - More closet/linen space than you think you'll need
    - Cubbies in mudroom with an outlet in each one
    - Motion sensor on pantry and closet lights

    - Plug in master toilet closet for night light
    - Outlets inside vanity cabinets (upper and lower) in bathroom for dryer etc.
    - Heated towels racks
    - Don't caulk the bottom of your toilet to the tile to hide potential leaks
    - Make use of the pony wall in a bathroom by turning it into storage.
    - Vac pans for hair
    - Appliance garage on counter

    - Run conduit under the driveway for future wiring or plumbing needs
    - Prewire speakers both indoor and outdoor
    - Ensure you have hose outlets and power on all 4 sides of your house, and on top of any raised areas
    - Hot/cold outdoor water is good for washing pets
    - Motion sensor pre-wire for selected exterior lights
    - Keypad entry on garage door (Keypad entry on front door is great as well)
    - Gas line to grill

    - Plugs in kitchen pantry for charging, or for items that may end up living there
    - Recess the fridge
    - With wide islands put cabinets on the both sides. While they are not easy to get to, they are good for storing seldomly used items.
    - Built in paper towel holder
    - Custom storage organization in kitchen drawers
    - Warming drawer in dining room
    - Pantry entrance near both kitchen and garage
    - Custom shelves and a place to plug in appliances in pantry
    - Plugs above cabinets for Christmas lighting
    - Set up for both gas and electric appliances
    - Pantry door on swivel
    - Pantry light on motion sensor
    - Copper tubing for your ice maker from the freezer and until it's out of the kitchen wall
    - Drawer microwave
    - Knife drawer
    - Pull-out garbage/recycling/laundry (for dirty dish towels/napkins/bibs!)
    - Paper towel holder in drawer slot
    - Drawers for all lower cabinets (more efficient use of space)
    - Two soap pumps at sink (one for handsoap, one for dish soap)
    - Easy-access place to store frequently used appliances
    - place to hang hand towels & aprons

    Electrical & Plumbing
    - Prewire security system & cameras
    - Run wire and prepare roof for future solar
    - Run a 2" PVC pipe up from the basement to the attic for future wiring needs, some suggested double conduits.
    - Seperate 20z circut with outlets at waist height in garage to plug in tools
    - Seperate 20z ciructe for TV and a/v equipment
    - Identify areas for low voltage can/rack
    - Pre-wring for music and speakers, inside and outside
    - iPad controllers in the walls to control whole house music systems
    - Pre-wire for generator to essential areas
    - Carbon monozide unit on the wall upstairs
    - Make sure plumbing in bathrooms are done correctly. One commenter's toilet was placed too close to the tub pipes so I couldn't get the deeper tub because they didn't allow room.
    - Cast iron pipes for the plumbing drops from the second floor cuts down on noise
    - Take pictures of all the walls before Sheetrock went up so you knew where all the wiring was in case you needed to add or change anything.
    - Include a 220V to garage (tools, future electric car etc)
    - Measure the location of anything under the slab, and various utilities out in the yard.
    - Run an electrical line with a few floor outlets, especially since we have very open floor plan and couch sets are not against a wall
    - Plumbed for a built-in drinking fountain,

    - Light switch to the attic in the hallway (and remember lights in attic in general)
    - Solar tubes in areas that don�t get natural sunlight
    - In cabinet lights and outside lights on timers
    - Make sure you check the cost ratings of ceiling fans
    - Check all remotes for ceiling fans prior to construction completion
    - 3 way switches where helpful
    - Master switch from master that controls all exterior lights
    - A master switch at each exit (Front, back or garage), that turns off all of the power to the switches/lights in the house, so that you can turn off all lights without going to each room and/or light switch.

    - 4 plug outlets near the bed in the master
    - A light switch at the head of your bed so you can turn out the light once you are in bed.

    - Plugs under eaves for holiday lights, with a switch inside to turn on and off.
    - Enough storage for Christmas decorations
    - Seasonal closet with hangers for wreaths, and space for rubbermaid storage boxes.
    - Plugs for Christmas lights: over cabinets, in stairway, in porch ceiling, under eaves

    Heating, Cooling, and Vacuums
    - Central Vac with vac pans, if you have hardwood floors - get a Hideahose
    - Plan where furnace vents will go instead of letting the builder decide
    - Hepa filtration for allegergy sufferers
    - WarmFloors heating

    - Read Myron Ferguson has a book out, "Better Houses, Better Living"
    - Receptacles for fire extinguishers. Maybe plan some cutouts so they are flush to the wall.
    - Where possible pocket doors
    - Secondary dryer lint trap
    - Soundproofing where needed
    - Stairs from garage to basement
    - A phone by the door leading into the garage for those pesky calls when you are getting in or out of the car
    - An inside button to open and close your garage door for when guests arrive and its raining.
    - Additional support during framing on the top side of windows for curtains
    - Power outage flashlights and keep in outlets around around house. Recess these into the space with each fire extinguisher.
    - Mailbox sensor to alert you whenever your mailbox is opened so that you're not running out of the house checking for mail when it's not there.
    - Ensure builders don't "box" off spaces, where storage or shelving could go
    - Make copies of manuals prior to installation and give the builder the copies so you can keep the originals.
    - Minimal walls, and lots of windows.
    - A laundry room. Not just a hall, or closet, a room.
    - Spindles and hand rail made that can be removed for moving furniture
    - Handicapped accessible.
    - Plan an elevator shaft in case you want to install one later, in the meantime it will serve as storage closets.

    - Plan a specific place for your dog food,
    - Place for the kitty box,
    - Place for dogs to be bathed
    - place for dog crates
    - Exhaust fan in laundry room for litterbox

    Regional considerations:
    - an ante-room, with coatracks and shoe storage, and a way to keep the heat in.
    - An entrance to the basement from outside for salt delivery, repair men etc so they don't track thru your house.
    - storm shelter to weather the threats your area faces.
    - a mosquito system and
    - little covered niche for bear spray at/near each entry.
    - Drain in the garage to get rid of the excess water quicker from vehicles after it snows
    - Pest line (brand name Taexx) a small tube is run around the perimeter of the home through the framing, and then pest control can spray within it.


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    RE: Small things that get forgotten (Follow-Up #52)

    posted by: sis3 on 05.31.2012 at 01:01 pm in Building a Home Forum

    I apologize if these have been mentioned, I did quickly read the posts above but may have missed them.

    Hide A Hose for your central vac - it makes the world of difference (if you have mostly hard flooring)!
    Appliance lift in a cabinet if you have a heavy kitchen mixer. I have one for my KitchenAid.
    Never M Ts for your built in soap dispensers.
    The last two items can be easily retrofitted but Hide A Hose needs to be installed before the walls are closed up.


    clipped on: 08.01.2013 at 09:42 am    last updated on: 08.01.2013 at 09:43 am

    RE: Small things that get forgotten (Follow-Up #49)

    posted by: minneapolisite on 05.30.2012 at 10:15 pm in Building a Home Forum

    Kitchen features on my wish list...
    drawer microwave
    knife drawer
    pull-out garbage/recycling/laundry (for dirty dish towels/napkins/bibs!)
    paper towel holder in drawer slot
    drawers for all lower cabinets (more efficient use of space)
    two soap pumps at sink (one for handsoap, one for dish soap)
    motion sensor on pantry light
    place to store fresh fruit
    easy-access place to store frequently used appliances
    place to hang aprons
    place to hang hand towels
    place to store broom / kitchen vacuum
    recess the fridge


    clipped on: 08.01.2013 at 09:41 am    last updated on: 08.01.2013 at 09:41 am

    RE: Small things that get forgotten (Follow-Up #48)

    posted by: garnerstamps on 05.30.2012 at 02:08 pm in Building a Home Forum

    I wish we had an electrical outlet INSIDE the bathroom mirrored medicine cabinets for recharging electric shavers, facial handheld cleanser, electric tootbrushes/waterpiks, etc. Yes, there's an outlet on the wall by the counter, but I hate seeing all those chargers and cords! Seems most of the tips have been to place more and hidden outlets everywhere . . .

    We also have a concrete floor with geothermal heating/cooling coils built into the floor which we LOVE; however, we wish we had thought to run an electrical line with a few floor outlets, especially since we have very open floor plan and couch sets are not against a wall, so to add a lamp or plug in a low-battery laptop (or other electrical devices) while comfortably lounging on the sofa means running an extension cord--ugly and a trip-hazard.

    I wish we had plumbed for a built-in drinking fountain, especially for the kids and future grandkids--an extra one outside or in the garage or back porch or something from backyard would also be nice when they are playing outside in the summer. The number of cups used for just a quick drink get ridiculous and especially for large family gatherings . . . . . we have to settle for lots of labeled cups but I would rather have avoided this . . .

    As far as planning for future wheel-chair needs or such . . . . if you have more than one floor, it's a good idea to plan an elevator shaft in case you want to install one later. For now, it means we have 2 small storage closets, but would be fairly inexpensive to install an elevator later. You can always plan to install one of those electric stair lifts, but you should at least think about your preference on the 2 options and plan for the possibility to make it easier.


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    RE: Small things that get forgotten (Follow-Up #4)

    posted by: folkvictorian on 04.12.2012 at 01:26 pm in Building a Home Forum

    I'll second the vote for outlets inside closets. I'd also suggest several 4-plug outlets instead of all 2-pluggers. (By the time you have a bedside lamp on each side of a bed, plus a plug-in clock or two, plus a plug-in base for your cordless all adds up to lots of outlets.) It would also be fantastic to leave a vacuum plugged in, inside a closet, and just grab it and do quick touch-ups of the rugs, etc.

    Also, plan a specific place for your dog food, treats, and bowls. I forgot to plan for furnace vents, so once cuts were made by out builders, there was less open floor space for bowls and such. With a 65-pound English Bulldog, the bowls are pretty big.

    Going with the furnace vent thing, plan where yours should go, instead of letting the builder decide. We have a sliding glass door in our bedroom, and the vents went on either side of the opening -- just where curtains hang. So we can either have our warm furnace air go up into the folds of the curtains or we can put plastic vent covers on the vents to direct the air out and over the floor underneath the bed.


    clipped on: 08.01.2013 at 09:39 am    last updated on: 08.01.2013 at 09:39 am

    Small things that get forgotten

    posted by: Laura12 on 04.11.2012 at 06:01 pm in Building a Home Forum

    I keep hearing that most people find that there are small things that they didn�t think about until after they finished construction that they wish they would have added into their build, and I was curious if all of you would like to help me to compile a list for all of us to consider during planning!

    So far I have
    - Plugs in kitchen pantry for charging, or for items that may end up living there
    - Full size broom cupboard in pantry or laundry room to hide all the cleaning items away from sight.
    - Solar tubes in areas that don�t get natural sunlight
    - Prewire security system
    - Run wire and prepare roof for future solar
    - Central Vac with vac pans

    Any others to add?


    clipped on: 08.01.2013 at 09:38 am    last updated on: 08.01.2013 at 09:38 am