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All Slab, All White (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: palimpsest on 05.24.2012 at 09:10 pm in Kitchens Forum



Slab front non-beaded inset
clipped on: 05.24.2012 at 10:28 pm    last updated on: 05.24.2012 at 10:28 pm

RE: Seen Your Kitchen, What's the Rest of Your House Look Like? P (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: sidney4 on 01.16.2012 at 11:31 pm in Kitchens Forum

Beautiful homes! Mtnrdredux, I have enjoyed seeing glimpses of your house on the Decorators forum. I just keep wanting to see more. Roarah, your sitting room is wonderful. I love the gray walls against the light colored chairs.

We've lived here 18 months and a lot of my house is still a blank slate but with the help of GW I'm getting there. Here are a few rooms.... some are done and others...not so much.

Here's the breakfast area:


Here's our den where I sit with my lap top and work.


Our master bath:

Uploaded from the Photobucket Android App

Our front entry:


Here's the great room as viewed from the kitchen


Come back and visit anytime!


exterior lighting -->"Vidalia wall lantern"
clipped on: 01.19.2012 at 04:48 pm    last updated on: 01.19.2012 at 04:49 pm

and it gets yet more complicated... (Follow-Up #42)

posted by: worldmom on 01.16.2011 at 01:17 am in Kitchens Forum

I'm going to scream.

Tonight we opened up the new doorway from our kitchen to the laundry room and moved the current range to a new temporary spot. When we did this, we were able to peek into the corner behind the lazy susan, and guess what?! There those stinkin' pipes are again! They go into the wall near the ceiling, and then come out of the wall again about 18" from the floor. Why? I only wish I knew, but now we have another weird obstacle to work around.

My husband is going to tear into the wall himself and see if he thinks there's any way to solve this problem. I have to admit that as we're just about to pass over the $xxK threshold on this project, I'm with palimpsest and don't think I can be happy with a shoebox or anything like unto it. ;o/

So, what about something like this? I can't really draw the soffit the right way on my computer program, but that arch (or something like it) would connect the two hutch pieces.

From Last Import


clipped on: 01.13.2012 at 04:44 pm    last updated on: 01.13.2012 at 04:44 pm

Inspiration pictures of kitchen with chunky trim

posted by: mpagmom on 01.12.2012 at 09:41 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm posting these pictures for babs711 and for anyone else who is interested in a kitchen with chunky trim going to the ceiling. The first three are from the same kitchen. These are all 9-foot ceilings. (I apologize for the extra-large pictures!)




Here is a kitchen with a 10-foot ceiling with stacked cabinets and chunky trim (these are from the Nantucket Designs web site):


top pic w bead
clipped on: 01.13.2012 at 01:23 am    last updated on: 01.13.2012 at 01:23 am

RE: My Small Awkward Kitchen (Follow-Up #45)

posted by: caligal on 11.23.2011 at 01:41 pm in Kitchens Forum

Someone above mentioned using IKEA's software. Even if you don't use their cabinets, the program is really easy to use. Just pop in your kitchen type and dimensions and start designing.

Here is one side of my kitchen using IKEA. From fridge to end of cabinet measures just slightly over 9 ft. I do have a wall of pantry cabs that you can't see, just to the right. They are only 12" deep and in my eat in dining area. My entire kitchen was around $13,900, but I have $6,100 in the appliances. My big splurge!

fridge stove side


clipped on: 01.11.2012 at 01:03 am    last updated on: 01.11.2012 at 01:03 am

RE: Vintage sinks (Follow-Up #16)

posted by: trailrunner on 04.17.2011 at 04:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here is the place I used for all my salvage. Had it all shipped to me on a Roadway truck. Great company with wonderful customer service. Also Roadway is a wonderful company and very reliable. Of course gas is now way more than it was in 2005.

largest guide to salvage on the Web:

re-store in Seattle and Everett:

Earthwise in Seattle:

If you will just Google Architectural Salvage you will get a wealth of places....add your largest city near you and you will have more than you can shake the proverbial stick at ! c


clipped on: 01.09.2012 at 01:22 am    last updated on: 01.09.2012 at 01:22 am

RE: Soapstone question for FloridaJoshua (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: florida_joshua on 12.06.2011 at 07:55 am in Kitchens Forum

Thanks for the heads up email! Many times soapstone is polished up too high. This is a problem because without polishing out with the proper wet diamond pads, you cannot match the finish. You will need to sand the entire counter down and create the proper finish on the stone. If you don't you will just create a "dull" spot when spot sanding. That's just one of the reasons the proper finish is so important. This makes it easy to care for. It can be a real pain if the stone is polished up high because you see all the everyday wear. I'll check back in later today if you have any more questions I can answer. If you don't hear from me feel free to email.


clipped on: 12.06.2011 at 12:36 pm    last updated on: 12.06.2011 at 12:36 pm

RE: undertones and combining neutrals in a white kitchen (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: GreenDesigns on 11.11.2011 at 09:44 am in Kitchens Forum

The biggest issue that people have when they do a "White" room design is that they try to be too matchy-matchy and get everything the same exact white. The kitchen looks flat then, with no depth. The second mistake white kitchen people make is to use a great swath of one particular white, and then use only one other white in the room. If the undertones aren't complementary, it looks like a mistake, and it still leaves the room flat.

Lighting in a room will make even the same color appear different on different walls. Use that to create interest. The key to a successful white room is layering the whites. Use more than just one or two whites. Use one for the woodwork, one for the cabinetry, one for the walls, one for the furniture, one for another fabric, one for the backsplash, one for the counter.

For those that aren't experienced with "undertones" take a piece of plain white (non recycled content) good printer paper and lay the paint chip on it. That will confess it's undertones when compared with the bright white of the paper. Do the same for any chips you are considering. And then consider using a pale "color" in the undertone color for some of your "white" colors. If the white has yellow undertones, then use a pale yellow as one of the layers of whites, not just an "creamy off white". And learn to read your paint can. Some paint stores paint codes aren't clear, but then that's when you ask them what "CC and YY" mean in your mix. If your paint is using Yellow Ochre, Raw Umber and Lamp Black to create it's off white tones, then your paint will have a bit of a greyish orange undertones. If it's using Red Iron Oxide and Thalo Blue, then your paint will have purplish undertones. Read and interpret your paint cans if you want to understand color.


clipped on: 11.11.2011 at 04:51 pm    last updated on: 11.11.2011 at 04:51 pm

RE: Liebherr Fully Integrated Fridge v. Built-In (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: marthavila on 03.03.2011 at 05:45 pm in Appliances Forum

Here's what my fully integrated Liebherr HC2062 looks like (Note that my cabs don't run all the way to the ceiling, though.) I hardly ever notice the grill at the bottom of the unit and neither does anyone else. Most first time visitors think my fridge is a pantry.




clipped on: 06.23.2011 at 01:42 am    last updated on: 06.23.2011 at 01:42 am

RE: Need a soft white to off white for cabinets..too many choic (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: kathec on 03.15.2011 at 07:50 pm in Kitchens Forum

Seriously, I'm having this conversation with my DH right now. Every couple of days, I have a new "favorite" white. I think my problem is I'm afraid to commit. I never stress over the wall color. It's sooo easy to change. Cabinet color is harder to change.
Here's a couple I've sampled:

Benjamin Moore (BM) White Dove OC-17 - a bright, grey white. Light Reflective Value (LRV) 90 Cool undertone

BM Cloud White OC-130 LRV 87.1 - not as bright as White Dove LRV 87.1

BM Feather Down OC-7 LRV 73.8 - a moodier gray off white, Cool undertone.

Below is a link another gardenwebber shared with me. BuyAuraPaint. It has the LRV and some of the color undertone info. Sherwin Williams also has the LRV on the back of their cards too if you want to compare.

Here's Pottery Barn's version of how to pick white:

BTW, my color of the week is Ancient Ivory ; )

Here is a link that might be useful: BM paint


clipped on: 03.16.2011 at 08:18 pm    last updated on: 03.16.2011 at 08:18 pm

RE: How well does Soapstone/Slate do as countertop?? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: mtndream on 01.18.2010 at 11:15 am in Kitchens Forum

I choose soapstone because of the ability to withstand high heat. As for hardness, they have several types so it would depend on the soapstone you choose, Julia & Belvedere, etc are listed to be harder. Piracema is said to be softer. my sample was softer than others so nicks & scratches would depend on which kind you choose. If you go to M. Teixeira they have a wealth of information & will send you samples. They also sell kitchenware & masonry/wood stoves out of soapstone. I ordered my soapstone from them. Very nice to deal with. HTH Lynne


clipped on: 03.11.2011 at 04:19 pm    last updated on: 03.11.2011 at 04:19 pm

RE: countertop overhang and depth standards (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: buehl on 03.09.2011 at 12:53 pm in Kitchens Forum

In general, counter overhangs are 1.5" give or take a bit depending on your fabricator or your slab(s) (how much material is available, etc.)

This is true for all frameless cabinets as well as non-inset framed cabinets. With inset, it can vary from a flush (not recommended) to 1/2" or more. (Frameless can also sometimes have counters flush w/their doors...more on that later.)

Purpose of overhang...The reason for the overhang at all is, as Fori mentioned, to direct spills away from the face of the cabinet box and drawer/door fronts. This protects the finish of the cabinets and door/drawer fronts as well as the contents of the cabinets/drawers. Doors & drawers are never so tightly sealed that things, including dust, cannot sift or drip down into them from above...the overhang protects them from these spills, etc.

Depth of overhang...A standard cabinet box is 24" deep and the door/drawer front is 3/4" to 1" thick. With frameless and non-inset framed (i.e., overlay) cabs, the door sits on top/in front of the box, so it adds another 1" or so to the overall depth of the cabinet run. Additionally, if you look at how doors & drawer fronts fit, there's a bit of a gap b/w the front of the cabinet box and the door/drawer front; it needs to be accounted for as well. To adequately protect the cabinets/doors/drawer fronts, the overhang must extend past a minimum of 1.25" is needed, but 1.5" is better (my granite overhang varies from 1.5" to almost 2"). Do not have only a 1" is not adequate protection for frameless or framed overlay cabinets.

With inset cabinets, the doors sit inside the cabinet itself (which is one of the reasons inset cabinets have the least amount of storage of the various types of cabinets.) This means they don't need as much of an overhang to protect the cabinet boxes and doors/drawer fronts. However, they do need some...and 1/2" is usually adequate.

Why is the overhang > overall depth? Because when things drip/sift off counters, they don't always go straight down...there's some movement horizontally (in/out). This is even more pronounced with some counter edges (like bullnose). So, an overhang approx 1/2" > the overall depth accommodates & protects against this variation.

Some people put in a flush countertop (flush w/box for inset or flush w/doors/drawer fronts with frameless; it doesn't work as well w/overlay) for a more "urban" look. However, they risk damaging their cabinets and doors/drawer fronts over time...and not necessarily that long a time, either.

Another advantage of this overhang, btw, is that it increases your workspace depth, even if only a little!


clipped on: 03.10.2011 at 03:54 pm    last updated on: 03.10.2011 at 03:56 pm

RE: Found a local custom cabinet guy.... how do you judge? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: annettacm on 03.09.2011 at 01:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's a silly thing to ask the cab guy... I ordered custom cabinets for my last house, and the bottoms of the cabinets were only made of 1/4" material. I was told on this forum and by him that that was okay (and it did hold up... wider cabinets had a middle brace), but when I went to screw in my undercab lights (w/ 1/2" screws, since most cabinet bottoms are 3/4") the screws came up thru the bottom of the cab. They had to be sawed off and new false bottoms put in to cover the holes.

Silly thing... I never thought to ask about how thick the bottom of his cabinets were. Doors are solid wood... everything was dovetailed.. high quality. That just always struck me as odd. Who knew?


clipped on: 03.10.2011 at 12:08 am    last updated on: 03.10.2011 at 12:09 am

RE: Found a local custom cabinet guy.... how do you judge? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: bagpipers on 03.09.2011 at 12:58 am in Kitchens Forum

I am awaiting delivery of my Crown Point cabinets this month. I can not say enough about how great the process has been so far.

I liked them so much, that we switched to CP from another cabinet company even after paying a four figure design fee our first kitchen designer. If you want I can upload a photo of our sample Crown Point Door vs a Signature door to see the difference. The CP doors are 1" thick.

I would consider touring the factory and pricing out your kitchen with CP first. If they are out of your price range then you at least can compare their quality/price vs the competitors.

In order to get the lowest price in your quote, start with square (not beaded) inset, stain, and a standard door. The numerous changes that I made to my design saved us thousands, improved storage, and we got exactly all the features/ upgrades we wanted.


clipped on: 03.10.2011 at 12:05 am    last updated on: 03.10.2011 at 12:05 am

RE: Found a local custom cabinet guy.... how do you judge? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: debs3 on 03.09.2011 at 12:29 am in Kitchens Forum

If we had gone to the local courthouse and checked for court cases on our first cabinet maker, we never would have hired him. He had a clear record at the BBB and the contractors board, but not at the courthouse. Expensive lesson to learn.

Also be sure to see a recent kitchen similar to yours that he has done.

Good luck.


clipped on: 03.10.2011 at 12:03 am    last updated on: 03.10.2011 at 12:03 am

a cautionary tale: Do a credit check on your GC

posted by: melissastar on 03.08.2011 at 11:36 am in Kitchens Forum

Some of you have heard my long tale of woe about my kitchen remodel, etc. March marks month 11 and though it's mostly done, it's not finished and I begin to wonder if it ever will be. I won't reiterate here the long series of screw-ups my GC has committed or the hilarious list of excuses I have heard.

But I wanted to offer this one piece of advice I don't believe I have seen elsewhere to anyone about to commit to a contract. Do a credit check on any general contractor you hire for any job of considerable value. It may not always have been necessary. But I am convinced that had I insisted on one at the get-go, I might have saved myself an extraordinary amount of headache and heartache.

The short version of my GC story is that most of the delays we've encountered are the result of his lack of funds. I think he's been badly hurt in this recession and frankly, I think he's juggling funds from my job to cover expenses on other jobs and his personal expenses. Although, fortunately, he was never really "ahead" on his draw...always up to what had been would sometimes take a month to get a subcontractor in to do a job. I realized only after many months of this that it was because the GC didn't have the funds to pay him promptly or to buy the materials...because he'd used what he'd gotten from me for something/somebody else. He has also repeatedly tried to get away with doing something on the cheap, only to be called on it by me, then have to rip it out and redo properly, causing further delays.

The bottom line is that my job will eventually get done and I won't be too badly stung financially. But it has been a nightmare...both living with the chaos and not being sure what was happening and if he was going to disappear. Had I done a credit check at the beginning I might have found nothing, since his problems clearly worsened over the last year. But I might have found enough late payments and overextension of credit to have set off alarms and sent me looking for someone else. Oh..and yes, he came well recommended, by amongst others, a work colleague. But, of course, he did the work for them BEFORE the recession.


clipped on: 03.08.2011 at 04:04 pm    last updated on: 03.08.2011 at 04:05 pm

Soapstone: Cobra vs. Black Galaxy???

posted by: jbrodie on 09.16.2008 at 10:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am trying to pick soapstone and it is so difficult! I have narrowed it down to Cobra and Black Galaxy. The cobra is harder (I think) and has no veining. The Black Galaxy is hard, but not quite as hard as Cobra and has a little veining. I have read so much about water spots and soapstone. If one of these tends to show them and the other not, that would make my decision! Any other information (pros/cons)about these two varieties would be very useful.

Also, if you have a picture of either of these varieties in your kitchen, I would LOVE to see pictures. It's so hard for me to visualize the slab in my kitchen.



clipped on: 03.07.2011 at 10:27 pm    last updated on: 03.07.2011 at 10:27 pm

RE: Advice -- Soapstone in MD, VA or DC??? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: lagrant on 07.20.2009 at 09:24 am in Kitchens Forum

About a year or so ago I investigated soapstone in the MD/DC/VA area in frustration. M. Texiera in New Jersey was wonderful to deal with - and they ship to this area. They will deliver whole slabs or if you send the template, they will deliver ready to install counters. They emailed pics of slabs and I could choose which I wanted. I ordered a sample set of their soapstone, which came very quickly. I, too, was seeking a grey or black quiet stone. Mumbai Gray is a beautiful charcoal and Black Galaxy is a very quiet black - no green and no veining. Check out their website. Right now I think they're offering free shipping for Mumbai Gray.

Ultimately, I stumbled across some Cambrian Black Antiqued granite and did not go with soapstone.


Here is a link that might be useful: M. Tex


clipped on: 03.07.2011 at 10:17 pm    last updated on: 03.07.2011 at 10:17 pm

RE: Shopping for soapstone at M Teixeira (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: jaedwards on 01.20.2008 at 10:04 am in Kitchens Forum

We were there (NJ) yesterday as well! It was apparent that other folks have caught on to the fact that water doesn't work as well as oil because many other slabs had oil patches. If I had wanted to finalize an order, I would have wanted a strong flashlight to go over the slab to check for cracks... it was just a tiny bit dim in there. Everyone was very patient, knowledgeable and friendly. Have fun!



clipped on: 03.07.2011 at 05:30 pm    last updated on: 03.07.2011 at 05:30 pm

RE: yet ANOTHER soapstone question (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: ali440 on 02.21.2008 at 01:39 pm in Kitchens Forum

This is Beleza Soapstone and will go very flat black with oiling. We like mentioned above are going with the Black stone with white veining but of course!! our stone has been delayed again. IMPORTS!! GRRR... we have plenty of time though kitchen isnt even ready for counters at this point. I still dont even have cabinet hardware selected... im slacking a bit. This remodeling business is seriously tiring!! :)



clipped on: 03.07.2011 at 05:23 pm    last updated on: 03.07.2011 at 05:23 pm

RE: What does 'PA soapstone' mean? (Follow-Up #24)

posted by: marthavila on 03.05.2011 at 05:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

Stephct, if my memory serves me correctly, Cobra is a very hard, plain black soapstone that is devoid of veining. PA is similarly hard and "quiet" (tends to read plain black from a distance) but has occasional veining. Sometimes, the latter can be very striking and multi-colored. At the very least, it adds a subtle bit of diversity to a largely plain surface. Because of the veining in PA, I would guess that it's softer than Cobra.


clipped on: 03.05.2011 at 10:45 pm    last updated on: 03.05.2011 at 10:45 pm

RE: What does 'PA soapstone' mean? (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: francoise47 on 03.03.2011 at 10:33 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi Designnov,

Yes, I'm 80% decided on the PA soapstone. The only other contender is a Cobra soapstone I saw at Teixeira in NJ. I have literally considered every possible surface for the counters, from Caesarstone to Formica to Pyrolave to granite, marble, and slate.

I've picked white painted inset cabinets (replacing my 14 year old white Ikea thermofoil cabinets). I'm leaning toward Farrow and Ball's Wimborne white for the paint. It looks great with the PA soapstone sample. But I may do a slightly darker or richer "white" like F&B Slipper Satin. I'm planning to top the small 3 by 6 foot island with walnut edge grain butcher block, after flirting for months with the idea of a marble-topped island.


clipped on: 03.05.2011 at 10:44 pm    last updated on: 03.05.2011 at 10:44 pm

RE: Where/how did you overkill? or not . . . (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: plllog on 03.02.2011 at 07:21 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm with you on the hood, but I've found I like all of the power, even though it's more than I need. :) And it's supposed to work better on a lower speed of bigger pull than higher speed of lower pull.

My overkill, not on budget but on volume, is lighting. I never used to like cooking at night because of bad lighting. Plus, with California law, I had to include fluorescents, which bug my eyes and give me headaches. So I hired a lighting designer. I have the indirect fluorescents (but fancy ones) which I had thought would be good bounced off the ceiling, plus more of them as downlight on the island, for which thank heaven for dimmers. Both have gel sleeves that reduce the color temperature to be more like incandescent. (And on the less fancy ones in the laundry too.) I just wish the light were sharper. The whole thing is dumb because I'm using a lot more fluorescent light to be compliant than I would with nice, sharp, warm incandescent. Sigh. Then there are the five halognes in the corners and in front of the pantry, plus three in the BP, and two over the clean-up sink, the LED's under the cabinets, the built-in halogens in the hood, and the little swag light in the doorway. All of these are useful at various times, but day in, day out, I mostly just turn on the indirects.


clipped on: 03.03.2011 at 10:55 am    last updated on: 03.03.2011 at 10:55 am

Kitchenaid French Door Counterdepth (KFCS22EVMS) Owners?

posted by: jgs7691 on 03.03.2011 at 09:59 am in Kitchens Forum

We are going to order this fridge for our kitchen, and are trying to figure out if we will need filler, or extra space, between the refrigerator and an adjacent pantry cabinet with pull-outs and full-overlay doors.

Does anyone have this installed next to full-overlay cabinets and, if so, do you have a filler or do you have any trouble opening both sets of doors without a filler?

Many thanks!!

p.s. While I have you -- are you happy with the fridge?


clipped on: 03.03.2011 at 10:52 am    last updated on: 03.03.2011 at 10:52 am

RE: Panel-Ready Cabinet Depth Fridge -- Dacor --Any others out th (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: coll4 on 01.28.2011 at 03:51 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm not sure if this applies to you but we just finished our kitchen. Originally we had the Kitchen Aid, french door, panel ready frig. When it was installed it stuck out like a sore thumb. The sides of the frig are black and my cabinets are white. The panels add an extra 3/4 of an inch to the already 4 or so inches beyond the cabinets and it did not look built in at all. Buying the panels was a waste of money. My kitchen designer (from the cabinet company) should have explained to me that a cabinet depth will not look built in unless you build the cabinets around it ( which in my case we were not able to do). We were able to swap it out for a Viking built in with panels. The Viking is a top frig, bottom freezer. I love it so much more than the french door cabinet depth. I have not found that the storage is a problem. And the look of it is 100 x better than the cabinet depth looked. I know a lot of people on this forum have cabinet depths that look built in but I think they may have had their cabinets built around it to look that way.


clipped on: 03.02.2011 at 03:12 pm    last updated on: 03.02.2011 at 03:12 pm

Vertical or drawer storage for pans, pics inside - help me choose

posted by: melaska on 10.10.2010 at 12:32 pm in Kitchens Forum

Good morning all :)

I've been perusing the kitchen forum for months now getting ideas together for our new build this Spring. I really want vertical storage for cookie sheets, pans, etc.

Here are some samples I've culled from you all:

Don't know whose this is but I really love this one:
vertical storage

One from Buehl which is the short horizontal shelf underneath:
vertical storage buehl

This is from sabjimata - I really like the drawer idea, too:
drawer vertical storage sabjimata

I initially planned to have this storage above my fridge. I'm tall so there is no problem. But, I will also have lots of drawers. One advantage I see with the drawers is you can store multiples items in the same space whereas the up-high I couldn't do that. But, the area above the fridge is a great use of space & I can always store the small items elsewhere. Hmmm, maybe I can do a mix of both?

If you have examples of yours - I'd sure like to see...thanks! :)


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 01:04 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 01:16 am

RE: Is it me that's nutty or is it my designer? (Follow-Up #34)

posted by: staceyneil on 03.23.2010 at 02:44 pm in Kitchens Forum

I haven't read the entire thread of responses, but wanted to address your blower vent question.
We originally installed a Thermador with an integral dual-motor blower. it was unbelievabley, ridiculously noisy. There was no way we could use it on a daily basis. So.... we purchased and installed a remote inline blower in the attic space (ours does vent through the roof, yup, in Maine with all this snow!). We also got a lenght of noise-reducing insulated ducting. It's sooooo much quieter now! I can't imagine why more people don't go this route.
For what it's worth, it seems to be MUCH cheaper to buy a separate blower and separate hood. The ones sold by the hood companies are way more expensive for some reason. I say get the hood you want, and have your HVAC guy set it up with a blower. Ours is by Fantech, I think. pick the CFMs you need, get a hood you like, a switch, some of the muffler ducting, and you're good to go :)


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 01:15 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 01:15 am

RE: Hood / venting system for wood hood (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: circuspeanut on 05.16.2010 at 05:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

We're going through this right now (building our own hood) and I think you're right except that the "metal hood inside my wood cabinet hood" IS the liner.

So in short you either need an all-in-one unit (the classic metal kind that hangs there between cabinets), or if you're building it in, you need 2 parts:

1. The blower itself, also called the insert or ventilator. This can be an external unit (installed on the other end of the duct from your kitchen so it's nice and quiet):

or an internal unit (hanging right there over the stove):

2. A metal liner for the blower to protect the cabinet wood and ensure a code-appropriate install (fire protection).
If you have an external blower, you need this to be a liner that has filters and bulbs on it to trap the grease, provide light, etc:

If you have an internal blower, the liner is basically just a strip of metal that surrounds the blower insert:

Clear as mud? I know, it's totally confusing - hang tight!


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 01:07 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 01:07 am

RE: Hood / venting system for wood hood (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: daveinorlado on 05.15.2010 at 11:52 pm in Kitchens Forum

hoods and blowers are 2 different things.

There are many brands out there. You have to decided what cabinets will be used over the cooking surfaces to decide the hood or you reverse it and pick the hood first and then make the cabinets fit it.

The liner is the metal device that you screw to the cabinets that has a cleanable filter of some kind and lights in it. The blower can be attached to this as a 1 piece unit or you can get a blower the mounts in the ducts further away from the kitchen to make it as quiet as possible. The remote blower set up is more expensive.

A good kitchen and bath store should be able to help you narrow your choices down. You kind of have to do the cabinets and the hood decision at the same time. I say the cabinets because the cabinetry making the space for the liner and the blower varry with what look you are trying to achieve that will then dictate the space the linner has to fill.


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 01:06 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 01:06 am

RE: We go to buy our IKEA cabs this morning and then.... (Follow-Up #27)

posted by: bmorepanic on 07.30.2010 at 02:48 pm in Kitchens Forum


You tell Scherrs what ikea boxes you're purchasing and they will build the correct doors and drawer fronts, drilled for the ikea hinges and drawer boxes.

You can get paintable doors or cabinet woods, unfinished, or primed or completely finished.

You can also get matching (in essence) cover panels or decorative end panels that match your doors. We got a few sticks of the same type of wood locally to use for fillers and starter moldings, but you could probably just go ahead and order the fillers.

Toe kicks are the same issue. Again, if you're not doing an exotic finish, you can get a local matching wood. We just used nice plywood and are painting them dark. If we can't stand it after a while - I'm afraid of shoe marks - we'll replace with the stainless toe kicks from ikea. We liked the look better than matching the cabinet.

The tolerances on the doors and drawer fronts are such that you don't see any bit of the white or birch ikea cabinet - with these exceptions....
-- The stuff that doesn't have doors! Those open shelf end units that are about a foot wide or the small perfects - the wine one or the shelf one.
-- Either sink base when you use ikea's farm sink. It's just not positioned correctly as designed. This is a job for a bit of paint to make it look like a shadow. If you use one of ikea's non-white colors, you'd have the same problem.


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 01:01 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 01:01 am

RE: Under sink trash pullout? (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: morton5 on 11.10.2010 at 10:27 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have 8-gallon trash and recycling bins in pullouts under my prep sink. The cabs are Ikea, and I used the Ikeafans modification for my set-up. I also have a small disposal at this sink and a never-MT. We were able to fit it all because the GC flipped the orientation of the sink so that the rear drain is at the front. This allowed all of the plumbing to fit in a single plane. I love having trash and recycling by my prep area and do not find the placement under the sink to be inconvenient at all.


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 12:58 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 12:58 am

RE: Some of the best advice from the braintrust on this forum (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: buehl on 02.05.2011 at 03:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

I don't know if you've read the "Read Me" thread, but the "Best Advice" and other, similar, threads are linked in it. They're located in the "Miscellaneous Information"-->"Helpful Threads" topic.

Here's your list, reformatted for ease of reading (see "Curious about text in messages (adding bold, italics, etc.)", also in the "Miscellaneous Information"-->"Helpful Threads" topic.)


  • lay the kitchen out on the ground outside with all the measurements and walk around it to see if it felt right. I took my measurements and scraps of wood and laid them out in the various plans I had come up with.

  • check out the sound of the fan in the new ovens. I would have been pretty steamed to spend a bunch on a new range and have that sound come blaring out each time I used the oven.

  • putting Blumotion on the cabinet doors. This is my favorite feature in our kitchen and the cost was cheap to add these on after the cab install.

  • "zones" on this forum, and designed my kitchen around them, with a tremendous amount of help from my forum friends. In my old kitchen, the dishwasher opened across from the island (right into the backs of my legs). Now, the cleanup zone is on the peninsula, the prep area is between the fridge and sink, etc. It's really wonderful.

  • No air gap -- most modern dishwashers don't need them, so you don't have to have that extra unattractive "thing" on your countertop. Easy way around that if you need to pass code inspection is to drill the hole for air gap... pop it on for inspection and when they've gone take off the air gap and pop on your soap dispenser. Then put the loop in the hose at the back of your dishwasher...

  • Advantium

  • Miele dishwasher

  • Test tube rack for spice storage

  • Lay it out with tape to double check

  • advice for setting up a temp kitchen

  • Measure from 3 points wall to wall. Had I known this when we remodeled the entire house in 1990, I would now have the room to put in a pro-style range. As it is, I am exactly....1/4" short. Talk about frustrating! Our cabs are in great shape and I love them, but I'm stuck with the 29-7/8" width on the range.

  • I really like this that I stole from Dmlove--- I love not having all those cords on my desk/countertop! So best advice from this forum... details make the difference! for now my phone sits over the hole

  • pull down (rather than pull out or side spray) faucet

  • Bluestar, after asking about the best 30 inch slide-in range

  • batch-feed garbage disposals

  • adding outlets

  • Galaxy Tool Supply for our sink

  • Never MT

  • Plugmold

  • Wide/shallow cabinet for William Sonoma ultra-thin step stool.

  • Airswitch on disposal. Never minded the wall switch, but now that I have a nice backsplash and an island

  • Floodstop on icemaker and washing machine.

  • I put power into the back of 4 drawers, so each family member has a place to charge the cell phone (or camcorder or whatever) out of sight.

  • I also have a false panel behind a niche so that the power / wallwarts / phone wire / wireless access point is hidden. Only the phone sits out exposed. Similar to the idea above, but using depth.

  • Don't pack your booze prior to remodeling (this is VERY important! VERY IMPORTANT!)

  • Lacanche

  • caulk on change of planes verses grout...look at the underside of your cabinets

  • Plugmold for under the ends of my island so I didn't have to cut outlets into my beautiful cabinets

  • integrated drainboard cut into the countertop

  • raising the countertop for my wall oven - which gave me a bonus "standing desk" for my laptop

  • never thought I could get talked out of gas. So, that is the best advice so far

  • I'm a single sink convert, based solely upon the reviews on this website.

  • DH and I made a "never mt" out of tubing bought for $0.46 at Lowes. It's really not very exciting, though. It's clear tubing (like the kind you see on aquariums) attached to the bottom of the soap dispenser thing, and then extends down through the lid and into the bottom of the bottle of soap. (We just drilled a hole in the top of the bottle and shoved the tubing down.) So low tech! The tubing is something like $.23/ foot and we bought 2 feet. Super easy.

  • Landing space between appliances

  • Aisle clearances

  • Wait until its right - the right plan, the right time, the right appliances.

  • instant hot water heater

  • Getting a 36" range

  • baking center

  • online resources for sinks and faucets

  • the importance of putting functionality first in all design decisions

  • how to test granite for durability

  • remote blower for hood fan

  • single deep fireclay sink

  • lots of great online resources for sinks, faucets, etc

  • Never NEVER NEVER!!!! Leave your construction site to go on vacation ::scary music:: I MEAN NEVERRRRR!!!!!

  • the best (and most costly) is don't settle. You have to live with this kitchen for quite some time. Don't settle! (Even if that means you scrapped the cabinets today, called of the GC for 8 weeks while you order new ones, and you can't live in your home so you have to find somewhere else to live for three months). And maybe Santa won't know where you live!!!

  • Pegasus under-cabinet lighting here. Slim, good-looking, very energy-efficient, and reasonably priced.

  • I was convinced of the superiority of the Miele cutlery rack

  • do not rush..get a good plan in place. Pick what you love ..NOT what the designer loves

  • Brizo Floriano/pulldowns in general

  • xenon lighting

  • Venting

  • Tapmaster

  • take pictures of everything while your walls are open. It is very helpful to have that photographic record of where electric, pipes, studs etc. actually are. Also, plan for where you want to install pot/wall racks, shelf brackets, etc.--and add extra framing in the walls before they get closed up.

  • Get your floor plan right!

  • The Franke Orca sink ... to die for.

  • Inexpensive but quality Ticor sinks for laundry and prep.

  • Plugmold giving me a crisp, clean and outlet-free backsplash.

  • The personal, real life stories shared here gave me the confidence to push back at the stoneyard and insist on marble for my island. It pairs beautifully with the soapstone perimeter.

  • Bertazzoni range

  • White America Quartzite to go with SS

  • LED undercabinet lights

  • internet and eBay vendor recommendations

  • Hancock & Moore leather furniture (from GW furniture forum)

  • Microfiber cloths for cleaning SS and granite.

  • we had scaled drawings, pictures, and sketches taped to walls and cabinets all over the kitchen. A sketch of the island layout, a drawing with dimensions for light fixtures and switches, a sketch showing the spacing of shelves, a picture of how we wanted plugmold installed - you name it, we had it on a piece of paper and taped on a wall. When we would discuss anything with the electrician, plumber, etc., usually we would show them a drawing or sketch so they would know exactly what we were looking for. Then we would post it on the wall in the kitchen. It may have been slightly annoying to those working there, but it was amazing how much it helped. A number of times after someone screwed something up I would just point to a drawing and they would immediately have to take the blame and offer to fix it. There was never any chance to claim that we never told them or that we had said something else. It was right there on the wall the whole time.

  • undercounter light switch for undercounter lights

  • tilt-out shoe storage cabinet

  • Get hardwoods instead of laminate. Once I investigated I couldn't believe at how little difference in cost between the two (good decent laminate vs. hardwood)

  • This is AWESOME! I now have a list of things I had never even heard of to check on...and I thought I was on top of things!

  • posters here are willing to share their good and bad experiences so that newbies like me can have a smoother reno.

  • Something that I'm slowly realizing as I continue to read the posts here is that, despite the best of planning, something (or things) likely will not go as planned.

  • Buy appliances available locally (so service is available), from retailers who will actually stand behind the sale instead of shifting all blame and responsibility to the manufacturer - even when they shipped a defective product. Just finished reading a long thread about someone that bought from an internet retailer, and it was shocking to see the attitude of the retailer. Forget the pre sale promises and assurances from some of these disreputable internet companies who won't be there if you have a problem and just get them locally. No small percentage of savings is worth it if you end up with a defective product shipped and the retailer says it isn't his problem. If you must buy via internet, make sure you get in writing that the product will be shipped defect-free and if there's anything wrong with the unit at all - IMMEDIATELY contest the charge with your credit card company. Don't rely on promises that a minor (or major) problem will be promptly repaired by a service company.

  • learning all the lingo was great. When the contractor asked if I wanted plugmold I didn't go "huh?" I think by being knowledgeable before talking to the contractor it helps a lot.

  • Knobs vs. Pulls. There have been several discussions of knobs vs. pulls. Some comments:

  • Knobs on base cabinets can catch on clothing (and rip sometimes).

  • Cabinets/drawers w/pulls can usually be opened w/one finger...even the pinky finger.

  • Susan Jablon glass tile. Everyone who comes in my house walks up to my backsplash and has to touch it. I had just about given up the idea of a glass tile backsplash before finding out about her site on this forum. The price of her tile, even with shipping, was about half of what I could have bought it for locally and it is gorgeous!

  • No sockets/switches in backsplash (under cabinet plug strip)

  • Toe kick on trash pop out BUT... ADD a second spring to add power to the pop (thank you for whoever mentioned this ingenious bit of info)

  • Double layered cutlery drawer (secret drawer within a drawer)

  • What to look for when choosing undercabinet lighting eg... reflection, spread of light, color of light, heat...

  • Benefits of a large farmhouse sink

  • Miele dishwasher

  • superb

  • Thermador cooktop and all the controversy about the popup draft and how I could get away with not having one. THANK YOU!

  • Miele warming drawer FANTASTIC and thank you for making me realize that it doesn't have to be on the floor under the oven!!!

  • PLAN YOUR STORAGE SPACE. measure boxes, measure food processor, mixer, stack of plates etc. etc. then make a note of contents in the drawers or cupboards on your plans or diagrams or in your notes.

  • Plug strip under center island.

  • YOU ARE NOT ALONE- PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT YOUR CD FRIDGE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU and it's OK to really take your time with your decisions

  • Orca single sink

  • Pot rack in upper cabinet (I think this idea was from loves2cookfor6??)

  • Electrical outlet inside a drawer for a charging station

  • filling in the gap between the fridge and the cupboard above it with some leftover filler and a piano hinge. Cambro...where did you see this idea? Just yesterday we discovered that we might have a significant gap b/w the top of the refrigerator & the bottom of the cabinet above. Our contractor is just going to use filler to hide the gap, but if we put it on hinges it would actually become usable space!

  • knife drawer (I hated that block)

  • gel stain

  • Getting rid of my ugly phone jack and getting a phone that doesn't need one!

  • How to get rid of the drip inside my oven door - with a hanger and a sock going up through the holes at the bottom of the door. Worked like a charm!

  • Get a spine when talking to GC about his version vs. my version of cleaning up the jobsite each day (aka our home).

  • Use masking tape and a measuring tape and make a mock up of where your new cabinets will go. This is a biggie!

  • Dimmer switches! I put them on ALL of the new lighting, including the patio lights adjacent, and have not regretted it once.

  • how great Silgranit sinks are to live with. Never even heard of one before GW.

  • Buying Sources

    • Ticor sinks: Ticor Sinks at Galaxy Tool Supply:

    • Tapmaster:

    • Never-MT: Never-MT:

    • Pop up Outlets: Popup Mocketts:

    • Plugmold Power Strips:

    • Angle Powerstrip:

  • Our Vac Pan. Ours is hooked up to a wet/dry vac in the basement because we do not have central vac. The idea came from this forum and our electrician and contractor figured out how to make it happen.

  • DIY on gel stain. Thanks Celticmoon and Projectsneverend.

  • Soapstone, getting it, finding the right fabricator right here, and caring for it

  • where to find a deal on saddle stools

  • Kohler Vinnata

  • Not to put my cooktop on my island.

  • best advice I got was around my budget and how to make the hard decisions on what should stay in and what should go (that was from Buehl).

  • What is not that important to me and doesn't add functionality? [Candidate for elimination altogether]

  • What can I do at a later date? [Candidate for deferring until a later date]

  • What can't be done at a later date and I can't live without? [Candidate for keeping and doing now]

  • This forum helped me see which terms are worth using, and which can be saved for later. This forum helped me get clearer communication going. Resistance could be expressed when I raised ideas; it all helped to refine the concept.

  • This forum helped me justify personal innovations. This forum confirmed ideas.

  • Tweaking and innovating. I tweaked everything in my kitchen along the way.

  • I don't know if I would have a remodeled kitchen if it weren't for this forum. I would have still been looking at the dreadful old one wishing it was nice and not knowing how to get it nice. Even the ideas & photos of things I didn't want for me helped to define what I did want.

  • I have to give credit to my carpenter, too. There was a time when his eyes rolled when I said, "but the people on the kitchen forum say......." But I had photos and conversations printed off to show him what I meant.

  • Lisalists organized drawers where the dividers go from front to back or side to side so you don't have to nest objects-and you can fit so much stuff in. Easy, easy access. No nesting. Yay

  • Layout, efficiency. This has to be the most important thing I've been learning here. What tasks do you perform, what zones will you organize them in, what items do you need close at hand in each zone, how does traffic between and through zones flow. etc.

  • Styles, materials, looks. People here have great ''eyes'' for style and looks. My eyes have been opened to these looks, and I've learned the vocabulary to describe them.

  • Specific ideas/features I learned about here that seem like they'll be useful: prep sinks, base cabinet drawers, counter top materials other than granite, true convection ovens, unfitted kitchens, under-counter refrigeration.

  • Many things, one of which is using a 13-15" depth cabinet for inset cabinets, as 12 is not sufficient.

  • Carefully placing all the appliances and storage thinking about what you use with what. For example, I moved the microwave to be next to the refrigerator because we use it mostly for reheating leftovers. I have fridge, prep sink, prep area, range, more prep area on one side and on the other I have prep area/ landing zone (across from fridge), main sink, prep area / dishwasher (across from range, but offset so both people can work) in the island.

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 12:53 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 12:53 am

RE: Drawers over pull outs in Cabinets (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: lisaslists2000 on 03.02.2010 at 06:03 am in Kitchens Forum

I love my drawers. I don't stack things in them, except same things. For example off not stacking see below - I keep all my bowls - little custard ones we use for icecream, cereal, small serving, etc. in a drawer which I don't have time to take a pic of right now. Love the drawers.

behind the door baking

behind the door cooking


clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 12:48 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 12:48 am

RE: Drawers over pull outs in Cabinets (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: desertsteph on 03.02.2010 at 12:55 am in Kitchens Forum

with either you'll be pulling something out... with drawers you skip the opening and closing of 2 doors. i'm having all drawers except the sink cab.

some drawer options (all gw drawers I think):

my favorite

another option -


option for lid storage on the shallow pullout part. or shallow glass baking dishes. or skillets. or some combo of them.


option to put dividers in front to back for lid storage -
or in a deeper drawer for skillet slots.


option to put a divider in across the width of a drawer for lid storage -



clipped on: 03.01.2011 at 12:46 am    last updated on: 03.01.2011 at 12:47 am

RE: Quiet range hoods (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: akchicago on 11.29.2009 at 01:06 pm in Appliances Forum

I don't have a specific recommendation for you, but I do suggest you read through this forum, or do a search in the search box at the bottom of the Appliances page (search "quiet hood" or something like that), there are a lot of threads on this topic, and the hood selection is vast.

I just wanted to say that a great deal of noise in a hood arises from the ductwork. If the duct diameter is too narrow, typically less than 8", then the exhaust will be noisier. Also, if there are a lot of bends in the exhaust ductwork out of the house, there is a lot of noise. And if the duct run is very long, that creates a lot of noise. That is why you can have two identical hoods in two different homes sound very different, due to different ductwork. Many times people blame the hood for noise, when the duct is to blame. Also, know that ANY motor, at head height the way a hood is, will be noisy. People get around that by having inline blowers or external blowers, but they are more expensive.

You should try to get a hood with baffle filters, rather than mesh filters. Baffle filters are quieter, more efficient, last longer, and need cleaning less frequently. E.g. you would never find mesh filters in a hood in a restaurant, only baffle filters.

As to CFMs, the rough rule of thumb is that for every 100 btu's in your burners, you need 10 cfms. So if you have 4 burners with each one 15,000 btu's (total of 60,000 btu's), you should have a 600 cfm hood. Do not shortchange on the cfms. There is no point is spending money on a hood if it is inadequate; you would then be throwing your money away. In your OP, you said you "don't need a lot of cfm's". Some people feel 600 cfms is really low, others feel 1000 cfms is really low. So, can you be more specific about how many btu's your burners have?


clipped on: 02.28.2011 at 01:05 am    last updated on: 02.28.2011 at 01:05 am

RE: Quiet range hoods (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: davidro1 on 11.29.2009 at 05:26 pm in Appliances Forum


One correction: an inline or esternal blower can be good and low price too.
I got an inline 300 CFM blower for less than $150. From a fantech distributor( but not from the first one I contacted). It's an FG-6. It's quiet. I built all the rest.


clipped on: 02.28.2011 at 01:04 am    last updated on: 02.28.2011 at 01:04 am

RE: Soapstone Selection Etiquette (Follow-Up #23)

posted by: bayareafrancy on 01.31.2008 at 11:37 pm in Kitchens Forum

Carryless: I got the soapstone from M. Teixeira, and had Creative Stoneworks (iin Emeryville) do the install. But because problems can arise, I would now only recommend using one supplier/fabricator. I would never suggest that anyone buy a slab from one place (especially soapstone) and give it to another fabricator (unless they are EXPERTS with soapstone and can recognize the difference between a crack and a vein). But I digress...

Jay: I have the option of getting a replacement. But there are some details still to work out. So I won't be sleeping well at night for a few more weeks at least. I posted an update on the "compliments to M. Teixeira" thread.



clipped on: 02.27.2011 at 11:48 pm    last updated on: 02.27.2011 at 11:48 pm

RE: Show me your kitchens with 9ft ceilings (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: arlosmom on 02.01.2011 at 02:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

Our ceilings are 9'3" and we went up to the ceiling. Only one wall has upper cabinets, plus we have a cabinet over the fridge that also goes to the ceiling.

above fridge cabinet stores pet supplies.


clipped on: 02.24.2011 at 11:31 pm    last updated on: 02.24.2011 at 11:31 pm

RE: Show me your kitchens with 9ft ceilings (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: katieob on 02.01.2011 at 10:32 am in Kitchens Forum


Congrats & good luck on starting your dream house. How exciting!

Our ceilings are 9.5' and we stacked our cabs all the way up. I love the look.




clipped on: 02.24.2011 at 11:30 pm    last updated on: 02.24.2011 at 11:30 pm

Stone Information and Advice (& Checklists)

posted by: buehl on 04.14.2008 at 02:56 am in Kitchens Forum

First off, I want to give a big thank-you to StoneGirl, Kevin, Joshua, Mimi, and others (past and current) on this forum who have given us many words of wisdom concerning stone countertops.

I've tried to compile everything I saved over the past 8 months that I've been on this Forum. Most of it was taken from a write-up by StoneGirl (Natural stone primer/granite 101); other threads and sources were used as well.

So...if the experts could review the information I've compiled below and send me comments (here or via email), I will talk to StarPooh about getting this on the FAQ.

Stone Information, Advice, and Checklists:

In an industry that has no set standards, there are many unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject.

Slab Selection:

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

  • Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued, or brushed, should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches, or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man-made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab when looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab.

    Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

  • Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This was done at the plant where the slabs were finished. This backing adds support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often, these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.

  • Cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little.

    • Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e., there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure.

    • A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole other can of worms.

    • Resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer.

    • Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed do not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but it is still resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Tests (especially for Absolute Black) (using a sample of YOUR slab):

  • To verify you have true AB and not dyed: Clean with denatured alcohol and rub marble polishing powder on the face. (Get denatured alcohol at Home Depot in the paint department)

  • Lemon Juice or better yet some Muratic Acid: will quickly show if the stone has alot of calcium content and will end up getting etched. This is usually chinese stone, not indian.

  • Acetone: The Dying usually is done on the same chinese stone. like the others said, acetone on a rag will reveal any dye that has been applied

  • Chips: Using something very hard & metalhit the granite sharply & hard on edges to see if it chips, breaks, or cracks


  • Before the templaters get there...
    • Make sure you have a pretty good idea of your faucet layout--where you want the holes drilled for all the fixtures and do a test mock up to make sure you have accounted for sufficient clearances between each fixture.

    • Be sure you test your faucet for clearances not just between each fixture, but also between the faucet and the wall behind the faucet (if there is one). You need to be sure the handle will function properly.

    • Make sure that the cabinets are totally level (not out by more than 1/8") before the counter installers come in.

    • Check how close they should come to a stove and make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter.

    • Make sure they have the sink/faucet templates to work from.

    • Make sure have your garbage disposal air switch on hand or know the diameter

  • If you are not putting in a backsplash, tell them

  • Double check the template. Make sure that the measurements are reasonable. Measure the opening for the range.

  • Seam Placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

    Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality, and their placementand still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

  • Factors determining seam placement:

    • The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)

    • Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available

    • Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will influence seam placement here alone.

    • Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some do not. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.

    • Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -

    • Install-ability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again, 1,001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

    You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

    With modern glues and seaming methods, a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam is done well, there is - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

    Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

  • Generally, it is not a good idea to seam over a DW because there's no support for the granite, and anything heavy placed at or near the seam would stress the stone, possibly breaking it.

  • Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece

  • Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e., eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.
    Edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world. Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.


  • Seams:
    One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum [StoneGirl]

    • A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:
      • It should be flat. According to the Marble Institute of America (MIA) a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.

      • It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)

      • The color on either side of the seam should match as closely as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.

      • Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases, the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.

      • The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge, you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.

      • The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)

      • The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as closely as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try to make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

  • Checklist:
    • Check the seams for evenness and smoothness.

      • Make sure that the seams are neat and clean.

      • Make sure that the seams are not obvious.

      • Make sure the seams are butted tight

      • Make sure that there are no scratches, pits, or cracks

    • If sealing is necessary (not all granites need to be sealed):

      • Make sure that the granite has been sealed

      • If more than one application of sealer was applied, ask how long they waited between applications

      • Ask which sealer has been used on the granite.

    • Make sure the sink reveal is consistent all the away around

    • Check the gap of the granite at the wall junctions.

    • Check for inconsistent overhangs from the counter edges

    • Check for chips. These can be filled.

    • Make sure the top drawers open & close

    • Make sure that you can open & close your dishwasher

    • Make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter

    • Make sure that you have the appropriate clearances for your appliances

    • Check the edge all around, a good edge should have the following characteristics:
      • Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull, or waxy.

      • The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.

      • The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.

      • A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.

      • A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly, and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanical fabrication (i.e., CNC machines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

    • Run your hands around the entire laminated edge of yor counters to make sure they are smooth

    • Check surrounding walls & cabinets for damage

Miscellaneous Information:

  • More than all the above and below, though, is to be present for both the templating as well as having the templates placed on your slabs at the fabricator's
    If you canot be there, then have a lengthy conversation about seam placement, ways to match the movement, and ways to color-match the counters that will be joined at the seam

  • Find a fabricator who is a member of the SFA

  • When they polish your stone for you don't let them wax it. It will look terrible in 2 months when the wax wears off.

  • Don't use the Magic Eraser on granite--especially AB

  • Any slab with more fill (resin) than stone is certainly a no-no!!

  • When you do check for scratches, have overhead lighting shining down so scratches are easier to see

  • Don't let them do cutouts in place (granite dust becomes a major issue)

  • Granite dust can be a problem...some have heard of SS appliances & hoods damaged by the dust, others have heard of drawer glides being ruined by the dust

  • If you have wood floors--especially if you're in the process of staining or finishing them--make sure that they don't spill or drip granite sealer on the wood floors. Apparently the sealer interferes with the stain or finish process.

  • Suggested Prep for Installation:
    • Remove any drawers and pullouts beneath any sections that will be cut or drilled onsite, e.g., sink cutouts and/or faucet, soap dispenser, air gap, instant hot etc. holes, cooktop cutouts.

    • Then just cover the glides themselves with a few layers of blue painter's tape (or some combo of plastic wrap and tape)

    • If you make sure to cover the top of the glides and attach some of the tape to the cab wall as well (to form sort of a seal)and cover the rest of the glides completely with tape, you should be fine.

    • Usually the fabricators will have someone holding a vacuum hose right at the spot where they are drilling or cutting, so very little granite dust should be landing on the glides. What little dust escapes the vacuum will be blocked by the layer(s) of tape.

    • When done w/installation, remove the tape and use a DustBuster (or similar) on all the cabinets and glides

  • Countertop Support:

    • If your granite is 2 cm thick, then there can be no more then 6" of of unsupported span with a 5/8" subtop

    • If your granite is 3 cm thick, then there can be no more then 10" of unsupported span - no subtop required

    • If you need support, the to determine your corbel dimensions:

    • Thickness of Stone - Dimension of Unsupported Span = Corbel Dimensino

    • i.e., an 18" total overhang in 2 cm would require a 12" corbe; the same overhang in 3 cm would require an 8" corbel


clipped on: 02.24.2011 at 11:27 pm    last updated on: 02.24.2011 at 11:27 pm

RE: Kitchen Help!!! Need creamy cabinets with white appliance pi (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: boxerpups on 12.29.2010 at 06:10 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here are some pictures of cream and white together.
I also included a link to painting oak cabinets.





Want to paint oak cabinets white-pictures included please help me

Painted Oak transformation

Here is a link that might be useful: painted oak


clipped on: 02.24.2011 at 04:36 pm    last updated on: 02.24.2011 at 04:37 pm