Clippings by atlr

 Sort by: Last Updated Post Date Post Title Forum Name 

RE: Wax Myrtle as a foundation plant? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: esh_ga on 04.22.2009 at 08:10 pm in Georgia Gardener Forum

Great solution.

Actually there are so many questions for evergreen plants that about a year ago I made myself a one page document of all native evergreen shrubs/trees for the Atlanta area and grouped them by size and light requirements. That way I can just scan through the list when people ask for suggestions.


clipped on: 09.03.2011 at 07:27 am    last updated on: 09.03.2011 at 07:28 am

Please give advice on Trane XL16i quote

posted by: codeslinger on 08.07.2008 at 05:45 pm in Heating & Air Conditioning Forum


I have 2 companies that are quoting me installation of 2 Trane XL16i systems including replacing ductwork that is fairly accessible from the basement. I know that it is not easy to pin down a price due to extenuating circumstances but am trying to get a rough idea if this is fair or not. This home is approximately 2700' on 3 levels and is in the Asheville, NC zone 7 area. Front half of the home has a southwest exposure with a fair amount of glass. One installer is bidding two 2 ton systems and the other a 2 ton and a 3 ton but I will deal with that separate by examining their manual J and D calculations so please assume two 2 ton systems for now.

Quotes range from $23,200 [the 2 and 3 ton] to $27,200 [the two 2 ton] and include:

- two 2 ton XL16i (4TWX6024) units
- two 4TEE3F31 VS air handlers
- two 8 KW heat strips
- two sets new copper lines
- two Honeywell 9000 thermostats (supposedly exact same as Vision Pro AIQ thermostat)
- two Clean Effects (TFD215ALAH000A) air cleaners
- two condensate pumps and pans
- uninstall and haul off of 2 old A/C and oil systems and some old ductwork (nothing done to oil tank)
- 10 year parts and 2 years labor
- new metal trunks and flex runs for about 75 % of the house and rest we will tie into existing as it cannot be accessed since behind sheet rock. This includes 15 new supplies and 6 returns not counting 6 of the not accessible supplies which will be reused by connecting to their main trunk.

Questions (just need ball park answers or a general $ range)

1. How much extra for a XL16i compared to a XL15i?
2. How much extra for a 3 ton XL16i compared to a 2 ton XL16i?
3. How much extra to have a separate zone to a 400' area off one of the systems if ductwork already in place? In other words, one system would be a 2 zone system.
4. Will the Trane rebate give back $800 for an XL16i w/ Clean Effects starting August 28th?
5. Does the Clean Effects still present a fire hazard? See Or do they only start fires in Canada?
6. How much should an upgrade from 2 year to 10 year labor cost?
7. Roughly how much to run ductwork per return or a supply?

Thanks so much,


Trane XL15i versus XL16i
clipped on: 05.16.2009 at 04:25 pm    last updated on: 05.16.2009 at 04:25 pm

Trane XL15i, 16i, 20i, Carrier infinity

posted by: boatparts on 04.19.2009 at 12:41 pm in Heating & Air Conditioning Forum

PLEASE assist

I have been reading posts and getting bids for a week.

Assuming 4 ton heat pump is appropriate (original with house, good performance for 16 years). We live in Central Florida on Merritt Island (salt, sun, wind, hot in summer, and pretty cold in winter) My family keeps it at 70 degrees in the house at all times(I'm serious)and we have been unhappy with the heating mode in winter. (the strips are always on when it is cold)

Question #1. How important is the 2 stage compressor (or dual compressor). I am wondering if I should look at a single stage like the Trane XL15i or the Carrier Comfort series and couple them with a variable speed A/H. The SEER,EER,HSPF ratings seem pretty close in my 4 ton configuration so I wonder just how much more am I really going to save on an electric bill. They are all going to be better than what I have now and I am more concerned with performance and durability.

Question#2. We want a programmable t-stat, but I don't know if we need the sophisticated Infinity de-humidify functions, or a VisionPro IAQ or Tcont900 with the Trane since this house is in full-freeze mode all of the time.

We have quotes for the following:
Carrier Infinity 19 25HNA948 , FE4ANF006 8/10kw heat strip, HEPA filter, new lines, seal ducts - $8500 - eligible for tax credit, net $7000

Carrier Comfort 15.5 with Var.spd A/H and dig. thermostat $6250 and eligible for tax credit. net $4750

TRANE XL20i TTZ0048C1000A, 2TEE3C06A10000A, 8kw elec heat, Tcont900 t-stat. $7800 not eligible for tax credit

TRANE XL16i 4TTX6048C1000A, 2TEE3C07A10000A, 10kw elec heat, Tcont900 t-stat. $7500 not eligible for tax credit

TRANE XL15i $7500 from a diff't company, I did not get the model #'s

I would appreciate any advice.


trane xl15i versus xl16i
clipped on: 05.16.2009 at 04:12 pm    last updated on: 05.16.2009 at 04:13 pm

RE: Hybrid System - Trane vs Bryant, Trane XL15I vs XL16I HP (Follow-Up #27)

posted by: tigerdunes on 08.25.2008 at 01:20 pm in Heating & Air Conditioning Forum


just to be clear, you will get the same good dehumidification using the stats mentioned previously for a sgl stg system. I just don't want you to get too excited over this issue. the single stage systems you are considering will be much better than what you have now especially on dehumidification.

for example, say your stat has a setpoint of 75 degrees and an RH of 47%. On high humidity days but mild temperature, the stat temp is satisfied but the inside RH has crept up to 50. The AC will then come on and operate at a low blower speed until your RH setting is satisfied. Yes, you lose some efficiency but at what upfront capital cost with a two stage condenser. Everything has trade-offs including HVAC.



trane xl15i versus xl16i
clipped on: 05.16.2009 at 03:55 pm    last updated on: 05.16.2009 at 03:56 pm

RE: Finally decided on a Trane system (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: tigerdunes on 03.17.2009 at 07:54 am in Heating & Air Conditioning Forum


I think the XL16i whether straight AC or HP is a mistake. The XL15i is a much better choice and you should insist on the HW VP IAQ stat.

a couple of questions.

what is the area of country you live?
what is your electric rate?
what size conditioned space?

Trane is falling behind in performance/eff numbers on their condensers. This is very evident from the tax credit qualifying standards. One bright spot is the XL15i(or AmStd comparable mdl). Here are the AHRI matching numbers that really speak for themselves.

1419317 Active Systems XL15I TRANE 4TTX5024A1 4TXCB032BC3 *UH2B060A9V3 25800 13.10 15.75 1
(note the coil mdl change)

3187157 Active Systems XL16I TRANE 4TTX6024C1 4TXCB025BC3 *UH2B060A9V3 23600 11.80 15.75 1



Trane XL16i versus XL15i
clipped on: 05.16.2009 at 01:08 pm    last updated on: 05.16.2009 at 01:24 pm

RE: floor bounce adding joists (Follow-Up #42)

posted by: sequoia_2007 on 01.25.2009 at 01:13 pm in Home Repair Forum

You might find this article helpful.

Here is a link that might be useful: 6 Ways to Stiffen a Bouncy Floor


thread contains structural math calc and links
clipped on: 03.02.2009 at 11:08 am    last updated on: 03.02.2009 at 11:09 am

beachgirlok - Windows Leaking - Now Pulling Off Rock

posted by: mightyanvil on 05.04.2008 at 11:41 am in Building a Home Forum

There is no way to know what is actually causing the leaks just from the photos and your description but here are some observations that might point you in the right direction.

The type of house wrap is unfortunate because it is a woven and coated polypropylene fabric with micro-perforations. It will be considerably less waterproof than non-woven (spun-bonded) non-perforated polyethylene and polypropylene like Tyvek, Typar and others. (Drape a piece of it over a bucket and put several inches of water on top of it overnight) Micro-perforated woven house wraps are also more susceptible to abrasion. The most serviceable wrap behind such rough stonework is Tyvek CommercialWrap.

All vertical and horizontal house wrap laps are not taped as instructed by the manufacturer.

All abrasions and tears must be repaired. Usually a horizontal slit is made and a new piece of house wrap is inserted in shingle fashion and taped. This can also be done with self-adhering flashing. If the damage is extensive a larger area should be removed and replaced.

Corrugated masonry veneer ties have an unfortunate tendency to allow water to be transferred from the back face of the masonry to the back-up wall especially when they are installed pointing upward as shown in the photos. Such ties must be installed with the masonry end higher than the end at the back-up wall therefore it is best to install them pointing downward or better yet, to upgrade to adjustable wire ties like the commercial construction industry did 25 years ago.

If the window is the type where the nailing fin is mechanically attached to the window frame (instead of both being made of one material), then it must be sealed either with a bead of sealant or covered by the edge of the flexible self-adhering window flashing.

The wrap at the window head appears to have been installed behind the nailing flange and the flexible self-adhering flashing appears to have been applied over the nailing flange. This detail might work at the jamb but not at the head. Water that might get behind the wrap from above would have an unobstructed path into the building.

The masonry sill and head details are not shown so I cant comment on them but it appears that there is no sealant at the window jamb-to-stone joint. Mortar in contact with the window frame will crack and actually draw water into the cavity at this very sensitive location. A backer rod should be used behind the sealant at this location if it is expected to last more than a few years. Some residential windows designed for siding application do not provide a frame extension deep enough to support a backer rod at this location. This can be a serious problem. Also, the masonry detailing below the window sills will be super critical for keeping excessive water out of the cavity.

I am curious who designed and detailed the house because the problems seem to be based on more than just poor workmanship.

Hire an architect and someone with impeccable waterproofing credentials as consultants and carefully document everything from the beginning of the project. I suspect you will need all of that testimony and evidence in court later.


good advice
clipped on: 03.02.2009 at 09:55 am    last updated on: 03.02.2009 at 09:56 am

window flashing /housewrap link (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: sierraeast on 04.30.2008 at 08:48 pm in Building a Home Forum

Here's a link in pdf form. You have to scroll down to the window flashing section.

To temporary cover the windows, 6 mil plastic taped to the housewrap at the top and sides letting it run down past the windows. Leave the bottom open for ventilation and to let moisture run out. If you are concerned about winds pulling off the plastic, run a piece of 1/4" lath board over the tape and put in a few screws. Wont keep it completely dry but should slow it way down even in a hard rain. If you use screws, when you pull the lath/screws/plastic, tyvek tape over the screw holes.

Here is a link that might be useful: window flashing/housewrap


temporary cover for window opening
clipped on: 03.02.2009 at 09:47 am    last updated on: 03.02.2009 at 09:47 am

RE: Replacement Windows vs. New Construction Windows (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: thull on 08.21.2006 at 04:04 pm in Windows Forum

calbay03 is in the ballpark, but might confuse someone, so a couple of clarifications.

First, "flashing" is more than just a metal or plastic head flashing installed at the top of the window/door. What calbay03 refers to as "water barrier sheets" are more-correctly called "flexible flashing." Grace Vycor and Dupont's FlexWrap and StraightFlash are good examples.

Next, there's going to be a gap between pretty much any window and the rough opening in which it's installed. Could be tiny or big, but it allows the window to be leveled/plumbed properly. Rather than stuffing it with insulation (assuming fiberglass), which isn't going to be much of an air barrier, filling this gap with low-expanding foam is pretty much best practice currently. Dupont Great Stuff (and other brands) have formulations specifically for windows and doors that are less likely to squash the jambs and cause problems with the operation of the windows/doors.

There are lots of old threads in the Building a Home board on flashings. And the mfr.s install instructions for Vycor and the Dupont flex flashings are pretty good.

Here is a link that might be useful: Search for


links about flashing window openings
clipped on: 03.02.2009 at 09:42 am    last updated on: 03.02.2009 at 09:43 am

RE: T4 versus T5 in undercabinet fixtures. (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: atlr on 11.11.2007 at 10:19 am in Lighting Forum

Fantastic information.

We are in the process of choosing undercabinet lighting. I like the look of xenon illumination but now am trying to learn about fluorescent options to cut down on the heat.

Now I understand that xenon is pleasing to me because its CRI is close to 100.

DavidR mentioned some T5's do have CRIs above 90. I tracked one down on the Philips web site. Their T5 with 90+ CRI has a 5000K color temperature though.

Here is a link that might be useful: Philps T5 lamp link


clipped on: 11.11.2007 at 10:16 am    last updated on: 11.11.2007 at 10:16 am

RE: Demeyere Apollo-which frypan? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: solarpowered on 11.08.2007 at 02:15 pm in Cookware Forum

Sadly, Demeyere is a bit on the costly side. Here are my recommendation for pieces that I get a lot of usage out of: My 3.2 qt. Atlantis saucepan gets a huge amout of use. The steamer that stacks on it also is used a lot. I just recently bought the 11" Altantis sautepan, and it also is getting heavy use. Plus, the advantages of the Demeyere cookware really shine in sautepan usage.

I note that is currently running a special on Demeyere covered sautepans. (Linked)

Here is a link that might be useful: Sautepans currently on special


clipped on: 11.10.2007 at 11:43 am    last updated on: 11.10.2007 at 11:43 am

RE: GE profile french door refrigerator (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: skioval on 07.28.2007 at 12:29 am in Appliances Forum

I have been using my French Door GE profile PFCS1NJWSS for a few weeks now. I am very happy with it. I love the way it looks and it is very quiet.


nice refrigerator
clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 02:56 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 02:57 pm

RE: Kitchenaid Induction Cooktop -- experiences, anyone? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: oskiebabu on 09.24.2007 at 06:14 pm in Appliances Forum

I'm far more impressed with the GE Monogram in black without a stainless rim that can be flush-mounted to granite or whatever heat resistant countertop. The 36" KitchenAid has 9 levels on each burner: 1 x 1,400 watts, 2 x 1800 watts, 1 x 2,200 watts, and 1 x 1,800/boosted to 3,600 watts. This is a poor comparison next to the G-E Monogram which has 19 levels on each burner: 1 x 1800 watts, 2 x 2500 watts, 1 x 3200 watts, and 1 x 3700 watts (11").

The GE, like most induction units (and certainly all anywhere near as powerful as this one) require air to keep the components cool. They say this doesn't have to be 12", but it has to be 12" from any flammable surface or items. That is why they say you can install this induction unit over a GE single oven--as the top of the oven isn't flammable. I'll just store lots of pots and pans under the cabinet, as they certainly aren't flammable. Or anyone else could put an insulating shelf about 4" below the bottom of the lowest components to insure enough air to cool. Then you can put whatever you want underneath.

Heck, I'll buy a 3 or 5 year warranty with the unit and it will still be far cheaper than Vikings and Wolfs, and others. I think I saw a 5 year $99 warranty for the GE's. That seems too cheap to not be a missprint:-)

GE has been in the induction business before--they are hardly a newcomer. I guarantee they have far more knowledge on induction units than most manufacturers, plus they have a huge American Service department. The only unit I find competitive with the GE (mind you, this is based on specs and feauturesets) is the DeDietrich DTI909X. As DD is usually considered the flagship of the Fagor/Brandt Group I would be very confident, except for the fact that it isn't made for the American market or doesn't have an American repair service system in place, has no UL approval, and might be very difficult to get a warranty. Also the DD has stainless trim. It's burner configuration and power is basically identical to the GE. Makes me think that GE used the 909X as its template for making a top drawer induction unit. Who knows, GE might have bought the same induction burners using Fagor/Brandt as a source. This is just a guess. But it seems their power sharing pattern is identical with the major differences being 15 levels on the DD and 19 on the GE and stainless trim on the DD black and no stainless on the Monogram black--but stainless on the Profile black. And stainless on both the Profile and Mongram stainless tops (which makes sense).

I haven't drilled deep enough into the GE brochures to know whether their timers are all individual, like the DD.

In sum, these two models that are currently available strike me as the gold standards on paper that are currently available.

I'm putting in a mostly Thermador kitchen, but I don't think the more expensive Thermador induction unit is close to being the equal of the GE Monogram, Profile, or DD DTI909X.

And the GE's and DD are very reasonably priced for 36" induction units and are screaming bargains compared to the more expensive and less-featured and lower-powered big name brands--from Viking, Wolf, Thermador, etc.



comments about GE induction
clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 02:51 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 02:51 pm

RE: Does anyone have a Diva? (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: leetikes on 05.09.2007 at 11:23 am in Appliances Forum

I have a DDP-3, which is the 24" unit. I chose the DDP-3 because of the 4.0KW burner. I initially saw this set-up in the DD and was going to import from Cookpower. Builder warned that it might not pass inspection. Meanwhile, the electrician refused to hookup anything that is not UL listed. That's when I learned that Diva was going to make one. Diva experienced approval delays, and Miele and Thermador each came out with their 36" units, which I would have considered.But the DDP-3 is about $2000 and the Thermador and Miele are $3200 and $3600 respectively. We feel that we only need a 3-burner unit because we have a deep fryer and a teppan-yaki grill.
My space was designed initially for a 36" Bluestar rangetop. We decided, after trying the Gaggenau single burner, that induction is more efficient, and started to source out an induction cooktop. We have only been using it for a couple of weeks. So far, we like it, just a little bit hard to keep "dust/lint free".


clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 02:39 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 02:39 pm

RE: Opinion please...Advantium 120 enough as 2nd oven? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: needanap on 10.03.2007 at 11:54 pm in Appliances Forum

I have the Monogram Advantium 120 over the Monogram oven ZET1SLSS (I think that is the model #). Really love the main oven. Wonderful glide racks and control knobs. Cooks very evenly. Very quiet. Here they are, stacked over a warming drawer. In the first picture, it was just installed, I hadn't even taken the plastic off the handle yet. I find that the Advantium is actually a little too high in that location. The door opens down, and I am short (5'0"), so I can't reach in very far. The door is practically in my armpits when I try to get food in and out. It is a problem trying to get the various trays in and out when the oven is hot. And I have to use a step stool to clean the back. Another important point is to plan a spot to keep the accessories nearby. I find myself changing from glass tray to metal tray quite often, and I would hate to have to go across the kitchen looking for the right tray every time I wanted to zap something quickly. I keep my trays in the cabinet above, as shown. The trays are large diameter and only fit on an angle. If I had to do it again, I would lower the ovens by a foot or so, and put the warming drawer somewhere else. A good idea would be to keep the trays in a drawer under or right next to the advantium.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


clipped on: 10.11.2007 at 01:50 pm    last updated on: 10.11.2007 at 01:51 pm

RE: Fiberglass windows with woodgrain texture on exterior? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: mightyanvil on 10.18.2006 at 08:37 am in Windows Forum

Simulated natural wood fiberglass doors are made with a compression-molded fiberglass skin on a wood frame filled with foam insulation. The frames of high quality fiberglass windows is are made with rigid pultruded (opposite of extruded) fiberglass structural elements which are painted in the factory.

I doubt these technologies will come together anytime soon.

The leaders in fiberglass doors and windows are:
Milgard, Therma-tru, Marvin, Pella, PlastPro, Duxton, Jeld-Wen, Comfort Line, Graham Architectural Products and Fibertec.

I still don't understand why anyone would want a simulated furniture grade hardwood to be textured.


fiberglass window mfr list
clipped on: 05.25.2007 at 04:14 pm    last updated on: 05.25.2007 at 04:14 pm

De Dietrich US importer and prices

posted by: graywolf on 11.27.2006 at 04:51 pm in Appliances Forum

This is the message I have recieved from Wilkinson Supply. Please note the members of this forum had a large infulence on the products they are going to stock. Includes shipping, insurance and 2 year warranty.

Thanks for your interest in De Dietrich.
First a little background on our company. We've been in the distribution business for over 42 years and have 4 branches in North Carolina. Our main business is plumbing distribution of pipes and tubs to plumbing contractors but we also have 3 very high end plumbing and door hardware showrooms. We are just now opening a high end design center in the Asheville, N.C. area serving western N.C. In addition to plumbing and door hardware we are also offering tile, appliances, cabinetry, stone, doors, flooring, lighting and associated products.
In my investigation over the previous 2 years regarding which appliances to distribute I came across the Gardenweb site. Several of the lines we handle came directly from the forum. I realized the contributors were passionate about their selections and I knew they were more informed than I would ever be. Their dissertations even changed my direction somewhat in the lines that I decided to display. I chose not to display the 'main' high end brands and tried to select the more upscale niche oriented products that were new to the market; Liebherr, Capital, Turbo Chef, etc. The name of our new design center, Salon Blue Ridge.
After doing some research on induction I came away with the same feeling as many others in your group, De Dietrich seemed to be the best value and have the most options. As a distributor I felt like the U.S. market could be served better from a domestic location as opposed to overseas. I contacted the principles at Woodall's to see if there could be a way we could possibly work together to better serve this market, and also see if it would be worthwhile monetarily. The margin we will receive on this line is not great by itself but maybe we can interest this De Dietrich client in other products. If not, it's not going to hurt us either. So we decided to take the plunge. We ordered out first crate of 20 pieces several weeks ago and I am waiting for an approximate arrival date. We will stock just the 308 and 309. Below is how our program for the U.S. is going to shake out, initially.
We will stock the product at Salon Blue Ridge for same day or next day shipping.

The price includes insurance of the product and delivery by UPS Ground to your doorstep. Any shipping damage is up to you to handle with UPS but I'm sure we can help if a real problem arises.

We will warrant the product for 2 years.

This is not a manufacture's warranty, this is a Wilkinson/Salon Blue Ridge warranty. If you have a mechanical failure we will replace the part at no charge for a period of 2 years after the sale date. We plan to have parts in stock as soon as we figure out which ones go bad. We felt we needed to offer some type of warranty so hopefully this is adequate.
We have a service guy 'on staff' at Salon Blue Ridge. As soon as we receive the product we will 'tear it down' to become totally familiar with how it is put together. He will be able to answer any questions your installer or electrician may have. We will actually have one installed in our showroom so we should know any installation issues beforehand. Our service guy's name is Joe Barber. He use to be a forklift mechanic so appliances should be easy. We will have all the technical manuals and have overseas help in worse case conditions. Since De Dietrich is not officially selling this product to us they are out of the picture, but at arm's length. This product is not UL listed
Special orders will be no problem. We do this every day. Lead time and price would be subject to whether the client needs the item air freight or can wait until our next ocean shipment.
Credit card no problem.
We plan to rebox the product, if needed, to keep shipping damage to a minimum. This seems to be the major issue.

Price on the 308X delivered is $1593.00 US, the 309X is $1959.00 US.

These are initial prices. I think we can stay in this range but I need my final shipping and customs cost before the establishing the solid sales price. We will sell at these prices until I get all my costs and then may go up or down as needed.
Below you will find a contact list for Salon Blue Ridge. Anyone on this list has been apprised of the De Dietrich situation. For your personal situation if you have any follow up questions or need to place an order please contact Audrey Wilkinson, I'm a little biased, my daughter. in sales

Thanks again for your inquiry.
andy wilkinson

Here is a link that might be useful: Sales for DeDietrich


clipped on: 02.20.2007 at 03:00 pm    last updated on: 02.20.2007 at 03:00 pm

RE: Talk me out of AEG zone-free induction cooktop... (Follow-Up #31)

posted by: sshrivastava on a large zone may not register enough metal and the zone will not turn on. in Appliances Forum

vwgarden wrote:

Does anyone know about De Dietrich 308X, is it 50 hz or 60 hz, if it is 50 hz, how will it work in US? What is the benefit of De Dietrich 308X vs kenmore 30" one? They are about the same price.

I have a 308XE1 which I purchased from Cookpower in NZ. I spent a lot more than what the folks at Salon Blue Ridge are charging, I think that's an incredible deal.

The big differences between the 308X and the Kenmore are:

  • Kenmore's total cooktop wattage is 200w greater than the 308X, but some have said the individual burners are underpowered compared to the 308X.
  • Kenmore's boost functionality is limited to 10 minutes, not so on the 308X. Both will boost to 3,200w, but 308X will boost any zone to 3,200w while the Kenmore will boost only the largest zone to 3,200w (the others boost to 3,000w, 2,300w, and 1,500w respectively).
  • Kenmore unit is thicker above the counter due to its vent ducts above the countertop, the 308X is thinner but requires some cabinet modifications for optimal ventilation, depending on your setup.
  • Kenmore's zones are staggered, 308X is a diamond pattern. Diamond is supposed to be more accommodating, jury's out on that one.
  • Kenmore's largest zones are 8" and 10", 308X's has two 9" zones. One could be better than the other depending on your cooking style.
  • 308X has timers for each zone, and the zones will individually shut off when the timer expires. One zone can be set to automatically turn on at a certain time of day, ostensibly to reheat something and have it ready before you get home. Kenmore has a single timer for the entire cooktop with a "hold warm" feature, but I don't know how this works.
  • 308X has 15 power levels plus 4 "one touch" levels at 7, 12, 15, and boost. Kenmore has a similar range of levels, but will only show one digit on the display. When you set the 308X to 12, it will say 12, but when you set the Kenmore to 12, it will only show one digit.
  • Kenmore has pan size detection on the larger zones, so you can put a small pan on the larger zone. The 308X lacks this feature, and a small pan on
    a large zone may not register enough metal and the zone will not turn on.
If you want raw power, in this price range the 308X can't be beat. If you want peace of mind for service, the Kenmore can't be beat. If you need to use a large 11" pot, the Kenmore is your choice. If you need the ability to accommodate two 9"-10" pots, the 308X is your choice.

It mostly comes down to your cooking style and aesthetic requirements. The 308X is thinner above the counter and has more individual burner power, but induction is so efficient that the extra wattage available on the 308X may be overkill. Timers are nice -- I use them for oatmeal and pasta mostly -- but is this a feature you really need? What about service -- if something goes wrong, are you willing to install the part yourself or would you feel better with a more robust service and/or exchange option?

I think the pros and cons of both units cancel each other out. It used to be a price issue -- the Kenmore was much cheaper because the 308X could only be had from NZ for about $700-$800 more, or from the UK for the same price as the Kenmore but without a warranty or insured shipping. Now that the two are closer in price, more people are interested in the 308X. Don't get hung up on the power issue -- the Kenmore has more power than you'll probably ever need. Base your decision more on cooking style and whether you need the larger 10" zone, individual timers, or the flexibility to use a small pan on a large zone.

I hope this helps. Perhaps some Kenmore owners can chime in and correct any errors that I've made, as I own a 308X and not a Kenmore. Thanks!


clipped on: 02.20.2007 at 02:50 pm    last updated on: 02.20.2007 at 02:53 pm

RE: Replacement sash window kits-whats best? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: brusso on 11.06.2006 at 08:12 pm in Home Repair Forum

Thanks for all the inputs . I was really trying to find out the best sash kits to use. I already made up my mind to replace the sashes. jejvtr, I agree that the original windows look the best. In fact,a replacement window sometimes 'looks' out of place and might not be as good a fit as the original window. Mine are 20 years old. The outside looks great and I do not want to change that look at all. I just want to upgrade to a thermal low E sash. Also, as far as the investment goes, I dont think it is a cost benefit type of calculation that drives this. True, there is a savings type of payback in heating costs but also there is a re-sale factor that is gained by upgrading windows. Just like upgrading a kitchen countertop to granite. There is no payback with a countertop except for re-sale value. You wont be able to cut vegetables better on granite and that is not the reason to upgrade a kitchen countertop. That said, I am replacing window sashes with the kits that are available using low E double glass and all wood sashes clad in vinyl. Two major brands that I have been lookng at are 'MW' and 'JEldWen'. One is sold at Lowes the other at HD. The costs are almost double for the JEld Wen. Are they that much better? I was comparing the spec sheets and could not find any significant differences. What else can be a quality factor in looking at these kits? I'll need to replace 33 windows (9 are fixed) so I am talking several thousand bucks. I appreciate any commnets about the types of sash kit experience you have had


clipped on: 11.15.2006 at 10:20 pm    last updated on: 11.15.2006 at 10:20 pm

Info for those considering an Advantium

posted by: honeyb2 on 10.12.2006 at 12:10 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi - I had a tough time wading through all the info to find out what I needed to make a decision on the advantium, so thought I would post what I learned here for others.

First of all, let me preface my comments with the caveat that Im pretty confident that everything below is accurate, but be aware that GE continues to modify the advantium models, and the differences between the models - and the way that GE presents info on them - are more than a little confusing. Also, Im only discussing the built-ins. The over the range models are a whole other kettle of fish. So with that in mind....

I chose the advantium 120 built in over *other* convection microwaves because:
1) it has a bigger interior capacity (can rotate 9x13 casserole or large pizza)
2) has warming and proofing capabilities (many others cant be set below 140 degrees) as well as broiling, microwaving and convection
3) it fits in the 27" wide space I had available

Other features of the advantium include the "speedcook technology" using halogen lighting combined with microwaves, but this honestly wasnt a huge deal for me. It does make it so you can cook things without preheating, but I find the speedcook to be difficult to figure out, though I may warm up to it (haha) eventually. I like the advantium dials and find them highly intuitive and easy to use. I also like that the microwave has a function where you just select something like "soup" and it figures out how long it needs to be zapped to be hot. And its easy to just hit "express" when you want to just microwave something no wading through menus.

Differences between the 120 and the 240 advantium models include
1) The cavity of the 240 is smaller than the 120 - only 13 1/2 inches deep and I dont think you can put a rotating 9x13 pan in there. Someone please correct me if Im wrong on this.
2) The 120 is "less powerful", but this has not been an issue for me. The 120 "speedcook" alternates between halogen light cooking and microwave and is described as 4 times faster than normal cooking, whereas the 240 uses halogen and microwaves simultaneously and is described as 8 times faster than normal cooking.
3) The 120 comes in a 27" model, whereas I dont think the 240 does.
4) The 240 requires a dedicated 240v line whereas the 120 just plugs into a regular wall outlet.

I chose the Monogram over the Profile because I liked the exterior design better. The Profile is curvy this was going next to my Jennair FD fridge with the towel bar handles, so the Monogram looked better. No other differences that I know of except that apparently the Profile 120 has been updated so that it has 170 pre-programmed speedcook recipes, whereas the Monogram only has about 100 (?). Again, Im not bowled over by preprogrammed settings for frozen bagel bites and chimichangas not my style of cooking.

One other minor thing to be aware of. The 27" 120 is actually the same size as the 30" and requires the same 27" cut-out. "Optional" trim strips are included with the 27" that actually trim it out to be 30". Without the strips on, the oven exterior has some unattractive screws showing.

If you are looking for more info, the advantium website seems to have been updated with all kinds of cool videos etc, including some with Alton Brown. Ive attached the link below. If you are interested specifically in the Monogram model, you can go to, though there is less info there about the advantium.

Lastly, for those interested, the model I purchased is the ZSC1001KSS and I paid $1200 at a local independent appliance dealer in the Boston area.

Hope this info helps someone!

Here is a link that might be useful: advantium link


clipped on: 11.08.2006 at 10:31 pm    last updated on: 11.08.2006 at 10:32 pm

RE: Cabinet Layout - Were you happy with it? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: rumble_s on 10.01.2006 at 08:12 am in Kitchens Forum

I do custom cabinets as well as kitchen and bathroom remodels, so I've gotten feedbavk from other owners as well as from my wife on the two kitchens I've built for us. So here is some feedback:
- lower cabinet drawers: everywhere except corners and under sink. Makes it MUCH easier to access stuff. We have large drawers for pots & pans
- drawer glides: full-extension, ball bearing, side glides. Like the ones you see on better file cabinets.
- under sink: doors above a wide drawer at the bottom. (Low pipes and/or garbage disposal can make this impossible)
- corner: angle door with full-circle lazy susans. NOT the ones with a center post and plastic bins. I use a wood cirle on metal ball-bearing swivel bearing. I always put these in lower cabinets, sometimes in upper (owner's choice)
- tray storage: a middle (above counter) or lower unit spot with vertical divders for serving trays, cookie sheets, cutting boards, etc.
- pull-out shelves: in lower units or full-height installed under the five-foot level. This is like a drawer with only a two-inch side to allow items to easily be removed from the side (rather than top).
- pull-out "pantry": these are trays - low sides, only 6-8" wide - for storage mainly of canned goods.
- adjustable shelves: in upper units, everywhere I can (except corners)
- appliance lifts or trash-recycling centers: A love-hate personal taste item. They are convenient but take up lots of room. Usually no middle ground as to whether clients want them or not.
- open space above upper cabinets: I've yet to have a client want this. They always want me to run them to the ceiling or soffit (unless they have a cathedral ceiling). this doesn't add much to the cost of custom cabinets.
- Bake center: If you REALLY do bake ( many don't). I try to have a special section with lower cabinets only 30" high. This makes it much easier for kneading or rolling out dough.
- Islands: Another love-hate item. Interestingly enough, I have yet to install an island, though I have no personal opinion on them. We don't have one as my wife MUCH prefers the open floor space. Our kitchen tends to be a gathering area.
- Eating bar: On a counter extension from the wall. We like a raised eating bar (at around 42-44" high). This is the right height for the taller bar stools and the bar tends to block vision of the kitchen "mess" from the dining table. I've had "indifferent" clients change their minds (in favor) when they saw ours.
- Counter top: You #1 love-hate personal taste and preference item. I won't go into it, and I don't make recommendations to my clients.
- Sink: We have - and a number of my clients have - a stainless steel double bowl sind with attached side drain board. Very convenient! I won't recommend brands, but Ikea have one that is MUCH less expensive than any other I've seen.
- Undercounter lights: All my upper units have front and side trim that extends down to conceal 2" of counter lights. THese lights are very handy, expecially for a baking center.
- Sink spray: My wife hates the side spray tube. But she really likes the faucet with the spray head built into the water spigot.
- Power outlets: We have (and recommend) a series of double outlets with the left one being circuit #! and the right on circuit #2. And a separate circuit for the baking center. All on GFIs, of course.
- Microwave "hood": When considering this, remember that it might be too high for short people. Also, I think the exhaust fans in these units are too weak.
- Exhaust fans: I always say have an outside exhaust. The ones that recirculate back into the room are a waste of money.
- Garbage disposal: Don't, if you are on a septic system.
- Walk-in pantry: We love ours. Should have made it bigger!


clipped on: 11.07.2006 at 11:01 pm    last updated on: 11.07.2006 at 11:01 pm

Lodge Pro-Logic vs. Lodge Logic vs. regular Lodge

posted by: arley on 01.09.2005 at 09:54 pm in Cookware Forum

I'm looking in to getting some cast iron Dutch Ovens. I like cooking in cast iron, I know how to season and care for it, etc.

Lodge makes several. Preseasoned (such as the Lodge Logic ovens are) is a slight advantage, but even more important is the weight. They make another line called Pro-Logic which I understand is preseasoned as well, but has a more modern design. I ran across a post somewhere on the net that said that the Pro-Logic stuff was not as heavy as the older models Lodge makes. Is that true?

Anybody out there have any experience with the Pro-Logic line? I DO like the design (loop handles instead of a bail) but if they cook differently than the classics then I probably won't be interested in them.

Another design item I am particular about is how tightly the lid fits. One technique I like to do with cast iron pots is to braise the meat, add liquid and veggies, and put in a very slow oven for a long time. I just made a great lamb dish called "Gigot en Sept Heures"--yup, seven hour leg of lamb. Brown it at noon, put it in a 275 degree oven with stock and other stuff, and don't peek for 7 hours. Absolutely fabulous, meat tender and juicy. So the snugness of fit is an important criterion, and if the Pro-Logic ovens aren't as snug as the older models, I'll probably order the older ones.

Any guidance is appreciated.


clipped on: 11.05.2006 at 08:31 pm    last updated on: 11.05.2006 at 08:31 pm

Vote for best 'big ticket' spend: Solid Counter or induction?

posted by: koala_em on 09.16.2006 at 10:29 am in Kitchens Forum

I have been juggling the budget to try and get a solid surface counter like Caesarstone. But then OH OH...

Now I have seen those induction cooktops in action and I am thinking "wow!". The "WOW" factor relates to the awesome cooking and the price! : ) They're double the price of ceramic!

Now I am debating how to spend the kitchen budget- so tell me your thoughts.

Solid surface?

Yeah... I know... you want to vote for both! Me too! But seriously, which one? and why?

BTW- I am so close to signing contracts and booking it all in that I am nearly out of steam, so help my brain out here!


kitchen design discussion about induction
clipped on: 10.27.2006 at 12:57 am    last updated on: 10.27.2006 at 12:57 am

RE: Feedback on Induction cook-tops? (Follow-Up #59)

posted by: jomcg on 10.25.2006 at 05:42 pm in Appliances Forum

bens dad:

We imported a DeDeitrich 309x a little over a year ago from Woodall's.

When we made our decision there was a strong debate in this forum about the pros and cons of the import idea, I won't go into them here but a search might turn these past posts up.

Your question cuts right to the point you must make your decision on, warranty and service. If you self import the 309, there is no warranty or service support from Woodalls period. There is an importer from New Zeeland (I think his name is Dennis) who offers a warranty but at a significantly higher cost. Either way, you wind up paying significantly less money for a product with more power and features than you will find on the Viking. I paid about $1,800 for everything and installed it myself. I decided that if I had any problems, I could buy a second unit and still spend less than the Viking. So basically I self insured the cooktop. This is a very personal risk assesment decision and many people on this forum have chosen differently.

The good news is that since our installation, we have had no problems. We chose the 309 because of the 5 burner, power, ease of cleaning factors. I really don't know how we cooked without it before. One feature I thought a gimmick that we wouldn't use was the timers but I was completely wrong and we use them all the time. The touch controls make the top a snap to clean. We entertain and cook for friends several times a week. No matter what cooktop they have, they are amazed and jealous when they see the 309 work.

I hope this helps



good induction experiences thread
clipped on: 10.26.2006 at 11:27 pm    last updated on: 10.26.2006 at 11:27 pm

RE: Best cookware for induction? (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: alanrockwood on 05.31.2005 at 12:43 am in Cookware Forum


A few tips about cast iron. You might already know some or all of them, but here goes. First and most important, the pan has to be seasoned before use. This basically means heating the pan with a thin coating of cooking oil until it turns dark and quits smoking. Usually, several treatments are required to get a good seasoning layer. I do it in my propane BBQ to keep from filling up the house with smoke. The seasoning will get better as you use the pan, provided you take care of the pan correctly. After a while it gets to be a non-stick surface, almost like teflon.

Second, don't wash the pan with soap and water because that will ruin the seasoning. Often you can just wipe out the pan with a towel or paper towel and put it away. Sometimes you might have to use warm/hot water and a mild (not aggressive) plastic scratch pad. If you do have to resort to soap and water you will probably end up needing to reseason the pan.

Third, when you cook something in the pan it is best to heat the pan first. Otherwise the food is more likely to stick. For a typical example, to make skillet cornbread you would preheat the pan, either on the stove top or while you preheat the oven. Put a little oil in the pan. (You can put the oil in first, but if you do it will smoke a lot when you preheat the pan.) Then pour the batter in the hot skillet and return to the oven to bake. This technique makes a superior crust.

Fourth, never put really cold water into a really hot pan. Perhaps I should say don't put a lot of really cold water in a really hot pan. A small amount won't hurt. The problem you are trying to avoid here is cracking the pan from thermal shock.

Fifth, don't soak the pan for long periods before washing, and be sure to wipe the pan thoroughly dry. It works best if the pan is warm when you dry the pan so any water residue will evaporate. Some people even heat the pan briefly on the stove. The idea here is to avoid rust.

Sixth, store the pan with a thin coating of oil on the surface. This prevents rust. Cooking oil works if you use the pan regularly, but it tends to go rancid rather fast. Shortening is said to work well... doesn't go rancid. There is a product from a company called Camp Chief that is supposed be work well and doesn't go rancid. I usually use a very thin coating of food grade mineral oil.

Do some googling on cast iron cookware and/or dutch oven cookery to find more information on the care and use of cast iron cookware.

If you take care of it cast iron will reward you. It heats evenly, it holds heat a long time, and a well seasoned pan has a non-stick surface that will rival teflon, and unlike teflon the surface can be renewed if it gets damaged. Take care of it and your great grandchildren will be using the your pans long after you are gone. Besides, for some reason food tastes better when cooked in cast iron.

Did I mention that cast iron is relatively inexpensive? You can get a plain cast iron indoor-style dutch oven (Lodge brand) for a fraction of the cost of porcelain covered cast iron (Le Creuset), and the plain cast iron is more non-stick, and less likely to be damaged by mistreatment. If the surface does become damaged you can always renew it, as mentioned earlier, whereas with the porcelain covered cast iron if you chip the surface it can never be fixed. In comparison to teflon covered cookware, cast iron will last forever if treated well, whereas with teflon you will buy new pans every few years or so.

A couple of more things, the first few times you use your newly seasoned cast iron cook some nice greasy things. It helps develop the seasoning. Avoid acid foods, like tomato sauce or things with a lot of vinegar until you have used the pan a lot to develop the seasoning.

Alton Brown, host of the TV show Good Eats, is a proponent of cast iron cookware, as befitting his southern roots.


cast iron usage tips
clipped on: 10.26.2006 at 11:14 pm    last updated on: 10.26.2006 at 11:15 pm

RE: More Induction cookware at a discount (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: tim_from_santa_cruz on 04.23.2006 at 08:44 pm in Appliances Forum

Congratulations on scoring the induction-compatible pots and pans.

I just installed my Viking all-induction, 30-inch cooktop yesterday. (I did the installation myself, as I was an engineer for Intel in a previous life and installing a mere cooktop in a standard 30-inch cutout is a piece of cake. Installation took about 2 hours, done leisurely, and the cooktop worked flawlessly on all four burners. I haven't measured the heat-up rates carefully, so this is just a first-pass evaluation.)

My All-Clad Stainless pots and pans work great, as expected (and as I'd seen on my portable induction burner, a Sunpentown "Mr. Induction" 1200 watt model). Ditto for cast iron (Lodge, but Wagner, Griswold will perform as well). Ditto for my Farberware "Millenium" Teflon 12-inch pan, the only nonstick pan I expect to be using. (Got an El Cheapo nonstick with my Sunpentown, which also works well.)

Haven't test my Hamilton-Beach pasta pot, nor my Meyer/Costco stainless-with-aluminum disk cookware. (Note: Some "stainless with aluminum disk" stuff is not magnetic...I think I tested the Emerilware and found they were NOT magnetic, so their similar appearance to All-Clad Stainless is a gotcha to watch out for!)

Basically, once I started using my Sunpentown for everything (because my old electric coil cooktop was broken), I exiled my various Calpholon and Circulon and No-Name nonmagnetics to Devil's Island. Which makes it simple: everything works on my new Viking cooktop.

(Oh, my Kuhn-Rikon pressure cookers and pressure frypans do great on induction. See Jacques Pepin's book and t.v. series on "Fast Food My Way" to see a French chef making great use of pressure cookers.)

The All-Clad Stainless "loss leaders" at Macy's, other stores, and online, are a great way of introducing people to All-Clad. I initially bought the loss leaders, including an 8-inch fry pan and a 1-quart saucepan. For use on my portable induction burner. Then I added a 10-inch chef's pan, and one of the nicest pots imaginable, a 2-quart "saucier." I'd seen Craig Kimball on "Cook's Illustrated" sing the praises of sauciers--which are part frypan, part sauce pan--and All-Clad. So I bought one.

I've also ordered some "All-Clad seconds" from an online store (, a 13-inch braiser (kind of a cross between a roasting pan and a Dutch oven) and a 12-inch frypan. These are discounted from the normally high All-Clad prices, plus an additional discount. I haven't received my order yet, so I don't yet know just how obviously "second" they are. But since I believe pans are meant to be used, as long as the handles are on relatively straight and the bottoms are mostly flat, they'll be OK.

All-Clad pans are especially stunning to demonstrate induction with. The lateral conductivity is so high that boiling water shows no gaps in bubbles. And the vertical thickness is thin enough that the thermal mass produces little thermal lag, so changing burner settings produces nearly instantaneous changes in boiling, etc. (A cast iron pan is wonderful, but the thermal mass means a more significant thermal lag.)

Induction is really the "wave" of the future, so to speak.



all-clad seconds store
clipped on: 10.26.2006 at 10:39 pm    last updated on: 10.26.2006 at 10:39 pm

RE: Name of portable induction unit? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: minikit on 06.22.2006 at 01:51 pm in Appliances Forum

Mccall, I bought the white Sunpentown 1881 at a year ago for the price that sean_m cites. Now without a stove, I'm finding it very useful, though somewhat slow to boil water at the highest setting.

White was the right color for me since I will (eventually) have light countertops in a white kitchen. I do want to point out that the white too has the smooth ceramic top; the tiny speckles may make it look textured. The 1881's top is slightly different from--and preferable to--the one on the cheaper 1851, which is otherwise the same.

A few threads on portable induction will turn up in a search for "Sunpentown" or "Cooktek" on this forum. Here's one that you might help you to decide.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sunpentown induction


sunpentown induction info
clipped on: 10.26.2006 at 10:21 pm    last updated on: 10.26.2006 at 10:21 pm

Trying to find this slide for purchase

posted by: atlr on 07.28.2006 at 08:33 am in Parents of Toddlers Forum

I saw the slide pictured in the following link at a Gymboree Play & Music. I could not find any manufacturer name on this molded plastic slide. The Gymboree staff person did not know where it came from.

Does anyone know of a source for it?


clipped on: 07.28.2006 at 08:33 am    last updated on: 07.28.2006 at 08:34 am

RE: If you are planning recessed lighting.... (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: atlr on 07.18.2006 at 08:18 pm in Building a Home Forum

I recently installed Halo airtight trim to seal some old recessed lights to reduce air infiltration. After reading this thread I thought I would try Alzak to reduce the reflections on the TV.

I picked up some Alzak trim at Progressive Lighting but it's not sealed.

Anyone know if an airtight trim with Alzak exists? If so, what is its part number? I have searched and have not found anything yet.


clipped on: 07.18.2006 at 08:19 pm    last updated on: 07.18.2006 at 08:19 pm

RE: kenmore induction cooktop users are you pleased? (Follow-Up #107)

posted by: cappsmith on 02.03.2006 at 05:59 pm in Appliances Forum

I am considering the purchase of the Kenmore induction cooktop. My wife does not like the stainless steel trim on the front and back edges. She would prefer to have the black glass edge all the way around the surface for a better appearance and also the ease of cleaning. Have any users attempted to remove the trim on this cooktop? My local Sears (in Atlanta) salesperson told me he has replaced the trim due to it coming undone, but I am not comfortable with only one report before spending $1,700+ . From what I can tell it appears as though the trim is installed with some sort of adhesive. Any help would be appreciated.


clipped on: 06.08.2006 at 08:13 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2006 at 08:13 pm

Best drawer widths? 24 - 30 - 36?

posted by: dulcinea on 05.07.2006 at 08:19 am in Kitchens Forum

Hello everyone,

Just to give you a quick update...Our house was finally demo'd 21/2 weeks ago, foundation is in and framing starts next week yippee!!!

So...I am getting ready ( after 11/2 years) to order my kitchen.

My question, what is the optimal width for a stack of drawers. I am somehow having a hard time imagining a 36" wide 15" deep drawer without things getting lost in there.

My mother has a large and deep drawer filled with everything you can possibly imagine. It looked like my worst nightmare.

Please help me decide, any comments are appreciated!

Thanks for all your help, past and present.


clipped on: 06.08.2006 at 08:05 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2006 at 08:05 pm

RE: kenmore induction cooktop users are you pleased? (Follow-Up #58)

posted by: markmore on 12.15.2005 at 06:01 pm in Appliances Forum

Mine is due any day now, but I too was concerned when I read the pathetic specs for the large burner. I called our salesman, who contacted somebody higher up in Chicago, and came back with the following:

the brochure and online materials are wrong. The correct specs are:
10"--2400/3200 boost, 8"--2200/3000 boost, 7"--1800/2300 boost, 6"--1800/2300

Who knows if these are the REAL ones, but they certainly make more sense. They've also raised the price; it's now $1800! Hope everyone got their orders in!


clipped on: 06.08.2006 at 07:37 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2006 at 07:37 pm

RE: kenmore induction cooktop users are you pleased? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: wornout on 12.04.2005 at 11:32 am in Appliances Forum

interesting and encouraging..!!!!!!!!! my cabinet is already in wall replacing a jennaire cooktop and the using the space where the jennaire exhaust motor and downard pipe used to be. Contemplating how to use the hole at base of the cabinet that vents outside to vent my oven and advantium.(garage is behind the wall and hole at base vents piped outside somehow)Will go back and check the ventilation slot comments and min space requirements Thanks! Do you live in Va also?


clipped on: 06.08.2006 at 07:19 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2006 at 07:19 pm