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RE: Secret bookshelf door's roller will ruin floor-help with supp (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: milz50 on 04.12.2012 at 09:58 am in Building a Home Forum

My cabinet maker was able to do it with large hinges. It is strong enough for me to stand on the cabinet while it swings.

Let me know if you want me to see if I can identify the size/brand/quantity of the hinges...I'm not near them right now.

We had to trim the bottom of it after we added the area rug, so keep that in mind.

From finire

From finire


clipped on: 05.08.2012 at 10:49 pm    last updated on: 05.08.2012 at 10:50 pm

Under Kitchen Cabinet wiring

posted by: jerry_nj on 01.23.2011 at 11:21 pm in Electrical Wiring Forum

I would like to install fused lower amp wiring under my kitchen cabinets to power low power florescent lighting. There will be 3 fixtures each under 20 watts, thus the total load would be less than 100 watts, or about 1 amp at 120 vac.

The feed is 20 amp to the kitchen outlets but it seems one may be able to put a 5 amp inline or auxiliary fuse in the line feeding the under cabinet lights and be safe wiring the fixtures with 16 gauge (or even 18 gauge) wire. The wire would be visible, but out-of-sight. I have seen such wiring in kitchen displays at Lowes, for example, so I assume it is up to national electrical code requirement. I didn't see any in-line fuse, but I'd think it not safe to connect 16 gauge to a 20 amp protected circuit. Of course, people connect 16 gauge lamp cord (extension) cords to 20 amp protected outlets all the time. I understand extension cords must be visible, but they could still be subject to an overload when no one is looking.


clipped on: 05.14.2012 at 08:44 pm    last updated on: 05.14.2012 at 08:44 pm

98.627% Finished Kitchen - Transitional White Inset w/ glass tile

posted by: theanimala on 01.02.2010 at 03:00 pm in Kitchens Forum

After reading this site daily for 6 months now and getting tons of great advice it's time for us to post our finished kitchen. In keeping with the style of the house we needed to go more modern than traditional, but we didn't want something too contemporary. Also, we couldn't decide on painted or stained cabinets, so we decided to do both by painting the perimeter while having the island stained.

Although we moved no walls, it ended up being a bigger project then we expected as the old tile floor went through our foyer, powder room and laundry room. Also didn't have correct sub-flooring, and we wanted to move some of the appliances around, etc. The reason the it is only 98.627% completed, is we still have 1.373% left to do, such as glass shelves in glass front doors so in cabinet lighting can shine all the way through, etc.


Cabinets - Inset Shiloh Homestead painted MB Softwhite, Island Maple stained Espresso
Flooring - Tile Fashion Coffee 12 x 24
Countertops - Ceasarstone Raven, Ceasarstone Misty Carrera - Mitred Edge
Main Sink - Franke 33" SS Apron - FHX710-33S
Main Faucet - Generic Costco Brand
Prep Sink - Elkay - ELU1618
Prep Faucet - Danze Como Pulldown
Refrigerator - JennAir CD FD - JFC2089HES
Ovens - Electrolux - EW30EW65GS
Warming Drawer - Electrolux - EW30WD55GS
Microwave - Electrolux - EL27MO45GS
Cooktop - DCS 36" Drop-in - CTD-365
Hood - Bosch - DKE9365AUC
Beverage Center - GE Monogram - ZDBC240NBS
Dishwasher - Bosch
Backsplash - White Glass subway tile from
Backsplash - Stainless Steel 1x2 tiles
Pulls - TopKnobs - Princetonian
Paint - BM 1542 Himalayan Trek






Sink Area:







Island - Backside:

Pantry Area - Closed:


Pantry - Open:


Lazy Suzan - Corner Pullout:


A big thank you to everyone who gave such great advice over the past few months. If anyone has any questions on what we like /dislike please let us know.


clipped on: 05.10.2012 at 05:34 pm    last updated on: 05.10.2012 at 05:34 pm

As promised - More pictures(lots)

posted by: a2gemini on 05.05.2012 at 04:48 pm in Kitchens Forum

I was going to wait to post more pictures but so many of you wanted more pictures, so here you go.
We have about 50 % of the handles on the cabinets, fridge is still paying rent in the dining room (DH wants it back), UC Plugmold not installed, decorative lighting, above counter and shelf (in sun room), and still have to figure out the conundrum with the drawer below the Wolf.
The floors will be lightly sanded and finished the week of May 15th.

Of course - everyone's favorite - the backsplash!!!
Today, I saw a table that is perfect in size and shape but the wrong height - colors are perfect but the price is not!

Here we go.... Hang on for the roller coaster ride. I like to sit in the front car with hands over head.... Type T for Thrill personality...
Lighting for pictures is not great - sorry

Main L shape kitchen run -

Oven/fridge wall sans fridge...

Short end of the L - showing countertop

Sink and Garden Window (dust included as i have not cleaned up the mess)

Close up of sink and Waterstone faucet (so far my favorite item in the whole kitchen!!) It is so smooth and the flow is just perfect!!

Last minute addition to the kitchen - the pull out pantry when we figured out that we didn't need to rebuild the wing wall to the left of the fridge. (now where is that fridge again!)

Cooking zone storage drawer 1

Cooking zone drawer 2 - there are still spaces available...

Bake zone drawer 1

Bake zone drawer 2

Super Susan

Corner cabinet - I know a lot don't like these - but it works for me - top 2 shelves have a basic copco 18 inch lazy susan. Works to store my ceramic dishes and have lots from the A2 Art Fair

Above oven storage

Above missing fridge storage

Usual trash pull out - want to see about a hands free pressure switch - I just ordered one from Lee Valley - inexpensive if it doesn't work

Seam 1 at the corner - hard to even see!

Seam 2 at the cooktop (better than the sink in my mind) You can see it but I can't even feel it!

Dish drawer - but you saw this before...

Hope I haven't bored you too much. When I was a youngster, we had 12 pictures to a roll, so couldn't get too carried away!

Thanks for all of your support!!!!


clipped on: 05.20.2012 at 10:28 am    last updated on: 05.20.2012 at 10:29 am

RE: Banquette Bench: CKGM and Shelayne -- pics please! (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: shelayne on 03.29.2012 at 10:36 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi BalTra, here is a shot of mine. It is three 36" W X 15"H, 24" deep cabinets, cut to a depth of 22.5" (I think), topped with Lagan butcher block and cushions. The filler is a piece on each end, as the bench is almost 10' long. I originally wanted it to be moveable, but DH wanted it built-in. Since he was the one installing it, he won.;) He built a low platform for it. The cushions bring the height over the height of the chairs, but it has not been a problem for us. If we wanted to, we could remove the cushions, and only have the wood top, as we finished that with Waterlox, and it would be the same height as the dining chairs.


And so you can see what I mean about lots of storage, here is a pic with the drawers open (that white thing in the middle drawer is a big bread machine):

The "Costco" snack drawer is one that is constantly accessed. We call it the "Costco drawer" because it generally has those huge Costco snack bags, popcorn, store bought cookies, and like items.

We are very happy with how our banquette bench turned out.


clipped on: 04.08.2012 at 10:23 am    last updated on: 04.08.2012 at 10:23 am

RE: Counter Depth Refrigerator (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: mydreamhome on 03.02.2012 at 10:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

We have the Kenmore Elite badged counter depth Samsung SxS and love it. We also made sure we got the largest capacity counter depth fridge available with icemaker in the door to free up all the shelves in the freezer compartment. No problems with the drawers or celery storage, no ice shooting across the floor or anything. Maybe they've changed the design since they made yours or maybe it's because yours is a FD--don't know.

What I do experience is the fingerprint issue. I tried wiping down with just soap & water, tried Pledge, tried Windex-nothing worked completely. Then I found Weiman's Stainless Steel Cleaner Wipes in the grocery store--Wow!!! All fingerprints & drip marks disappeared and it seems to help the surface resist fingerprints as well. We are going on a week and no fingerprints--and that's with a 7 yr old & a 17 yr old going in and out of the fridge all the time + DH & I. You may want to give them a try.


Weiman's Stainless Steel Cleaner Wipes
clipped on: 04.08.2012 at 10:39 am    last updated on: 04.08.2012 at 10:40 am

RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #29)

posted by: starpooh on 01.24.2008 at 12:05 pm in Kitchens Forum

I downloaded a version of "cod-o matik" but couldn't get it to run. So I searched around for an online version and came up with this:
Easy HTML Tag Generator.
It's a WYSIWYG editor ("What You See Is What You Get") that allows you to easily generate html code. It's used on many websites these days (including the Forum FAQ site), so it may be advantageous to learn!

There are alot of fancy things it can do, but these are the basics:
1. Type your text
2. Highlight an area of text and select an appropriate button:

  • Bold text: Click the bold B button. Click again to turn off.
  • Italic text: Click the italics I button. Click again to turn off.
  • Colored text: Click the downward arrow to the right of the large A. Select a color.
  • Highlight Background text: Click the downward arrow to the right of the highlighter with the yellow "ab". Select a color.
3. To view the html: Click the HTML button
4. Copy and paste the html into your forum post.

Give it a try! It's fun to "play" with!

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy HTML Tag Generator


clipped on: 05.11.2012 at 07:55 am    last updated on: 05.11.2012 at 07:55 am

RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #45)

posted by: weed30 on 01.24.2008 at 08:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's a tip for all you HTML teachers - instead of showing the code with spaces or asterisks and telling people to remove the spaces or asterisks, you can show the actual code you're wanting to show by using the HTML 'example' command. It is xmp. So you put<xmp>at the beginning, and /xmp> at the end.

<font color=red>Cool, eh?


clipped on: 05.11.2012 at 07:57 am    last updated on: 05.11.2012 at 07:57 am

RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #59)

posted by: buehl on 02.11.2008 at 11:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

This is the template I use for inline links:

<a href= http://www.XXX.html>Description</a>

Replace Description with the description of your link
Replace http://www.XXX.html with the link


clipped on: 05.11.2012 at 07:58 am    last updated on: 05.11.2012 at 07:59 am

DIY Banquette with Coffin Drawer - Pics

posted by: bethv on 08.19.2008 at 10:32 pm in Kitchens Forum

Our banquette was one of the key parts of making our kitchen plan work. But, we had a devil of a time trying to reverse engineer a plan from all of the pictures we saw. So I thought I would post ours with pictures & info as a small contribution to offset all the wonderful help and advice we got from the amazing GWers.

Hats off to my fantabulous DH for his perseverance with the arced wall and making the drawer work!!

Of course, many will recognize the inspiration from kitchenkelly and her fantastic morgue drawers : ) Our drawer is very tall so I think of it as the coffin drawer. Okay, so we keep the dog food & treats in it - but everyone needs a little levity in with their storage solutions.
NOTE: The bench isn't trimmed out yet, I'm posting now 'cause marilyn234 was asking for help with bench plans.
The table is a soapstone top support by 2 oak planks and a 4x4 table leg. The planks are 12" and 8" wide. It's 30 wide by 60 long. The table is rounded at the right end and the left end is flat and sits into a wall/frame on the peninsula end. The face of the peninsula is covered in bead board that was scored in the back to make it curve. The effect is a left curve to the table top. The leg against the peninsula is a half leg. The idea was to have the peninsula hug the table and not look like two squares butted up against each other. The soapstone on the peninsula was cut to arc in to mirror the curve on the outside end of the table. The top of the arc is 4" deep by 30 wide.
We got BM satin impervo matched to cabinets and painted everything to match.
Here's a picture of the bench frame. The heal kick is tall - the seat hangs out to create the heal kick. The drawer isn't centered because we would run into the wall if we did - or we'd only have a shallow drawer. The back of the bench is 30" tall. We wanted it short because the chairs face a fireplace. It is good height - very comfy. the bench is 54" long and 17.5 deep (finished seating depth). A detailed plan with measurements is below.
The bench is very comfy with the angled back and the foam padding. The bench seat is plywood with 3" foam & batting and the back is plywood with 2" foam & batting. The foam was angle cut where the seat and back meet. I used a bread knife because I could NOT find the electric knife - word of advice - FIND THE ELECTRIC KNIFE!!!! I used sharpie to draw the angle and lines on the foam. You may notice that I screwed that up the first time and had to glue it back together and re-cut it (with the freakin' bread knife!). The foam also hangs over each exposed edge by at least 1". I would have it over hang the sides more so we could use a wider trim. The foam stops 1-2" from the seat inside edge so the back can rest there. You need to affix the foam to the plywood with a spray adhesive - I used 3M adhesive. We covered the foam in upholstery fabric using a stapler. It's a bit tricky to get the pattern to line up so make sure you have plenty of overhang to adjust up/down & left/right. We laid it all out - both seat and back - taped everything down - stapled the back - then lined up the seat again - re-taped and stapled it.

The drawer is a big box of pine planks that are screwed together. The screws run perpendicular to the force so it's very sturdy. We used orange shellac and lacquer to finish the wood. You can see in the photo above the 1x4s that run horizontally inside the frame bottom to hold the drawer glides. The drawer box is 48" long x 10.5 tall x 16.75 wide (outside measurement). We got a drawer face from our cabinet company. It's wonderful!!!!! (Can't wait unit the drawer pulls arrive!)

We keep the dog food, meds and treats in here. I got bins from the container store that each hold about 20 lbs of dog food. Maybe I should call it a trough drawer!
In this picture you can kind of see the wall/frame that is attached to the peninsula to support the table.
a href="" target="_blank">Photobucket

IT still needs trim along the sides and bottom of the seat (beaded screen trim) and base board on the bottom of the bench and peninsula.

Here's the plan:

Drawer glides: 037 series 47.24 full extension 255lb capacity - $105 a pair - great deal


clipped on: 05.14.2012 at 10:34 am    last updated on: 05.14.2012 at 10:34 am

RE: Fake it Good.. no electricity above my island is going to sto (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: michoumonster on 05.11.2012 at 05:01 pm in Kitchens Forum

if you have recessed lights above your island, you can buy a conversion kit that plugs into them to do pendants. there are several brands if you search around. i never used it myself, but thought it might be something easy to DIY, or it seems that way according to the marketing...

Here is a link that might be useful: can converter


clipped on: 05.11.2012 at 09:30 pm    last updated on: 05.11.2012 at 09:30 pm

Finished kitchen... well, almost finished

posted by: kiffgirl on 02.20.2011 at 12:54 pm in Kitchens Forum

Thank you to everyone who posts here for your questions, opinions, advice, suggestions, photos, guidance, support, stories, trials, and tribulations. Although we found this site later in our project, we still gained so much and avoided some serious errors thanks to all of you!

Our previous kitchen was not old, but painfully small. As a two cook family, it just didn't work. We didn't have much room to work with to expand and, because of a window in the bedroom below, we angled the space to minimize the overhang. We started construction in August on the small addition and finished (almost) in January. Final trim, accessories, and window treatments still to come.

Our kitchen before:


And now...




Adding seating at the island was a last minute change and it has made such a difference for us.



Products used:

Custom cherry cabinets by Mills Brothers Fine Woodworking
Luce de Luna quartzite counters
Viking Range - reused from previous kitchen
Viking Hood - reused, but added chimney
F&P dish drawers - reused
KitchenAid counter depth refrigerator
Marvel Wine Cooler
GE Advantium
Terra Verre tiles for backsplash
Artemide pendants
Knobs and pulls - Restoration Hardware
Grohe faucet main sink
Hansgrohe faucet prep sink
Fanke Orca main sink
Ticor prep sink
Eye-Vac under sink - one of my favorite things. Just sweep up to the toe kick and the mini vac automatically sucks up what is in front of it. A must with wood floors and 2 dogs and 2 cats!


clipped on: 05.07.2012 at 08:48 pm    last updated on: 05.07.2012 at 08:48 pm

RE: Height between pantry shelves? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: buehl on 01.16.2009 at 12:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

This is what we did in our corner step-in pantry:

[The MW, btw, didn't fit so it is not in the pantry as originally planned.]

Also, SharB once posted her measurements but the thread has long since fallen off. I saved them and here they are:


[Sharb's] pantry measures 4 feet wide by 5 feet deep.
Starting at the top:

18" top shelf to ceiling (Things I don't need often or are lightweight.)
15" to next shelf (cereal boxes, etc.)
10" to next (canned goods, etc.)
10" to next (canned goods, etc.)
16" to next (small appliances)
20" from bottom shelf to floor (extra waters, heavy items)

The depth of the back shelf and the right side 12". The left side is 6" and holds my [SharB's] husband's hot sauces and other small items.


clipped on: 05.10.2012 at 07:36 am    last updated on: 05.10.2012 at 07:36 am

RE: How do you create a flush valance on frameless cabinets (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: ccoombs1 on 11.12.2008 at 09:40 am in Kitchens Forum

Joann, I can when I get home from work but there really isn't much to see. the lights are not installed yet. Here's two sketches that might help. the first one shows how my trim is attached. The second shows the door that comes all the way down to the bottom edge of the cabinet like most frameless cabnets are built (including ikes). To attach a piece of trim to these is also very easy. You just add a block of wood to the bottom of the cabinet and then attach the trim to that. Same goes for adding crown to the top of the cabinet.



clipped on: 05.09.2012 at 09:45 pm    last updated on: 05.09.2012 at 09:46 pm

RE: Ikea is the quality? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: davidro1 on 03.26.2012 at 11:19 am in Kitchens Forum

all the pro's and con's described above are accurate. To be more accurate, I'll add that "OSB" is probably a good term to use in web searching if you want to know about the physical properties of this wood product (often called particleboard or chipboard). It performs just as well as plywood in many tests, outperforms plywood in some tests, and so on.

Using Ikea as your source for buying boxes is a good strategy.
Using Ikea as your source for buying drawers is a good strategy.
Drawers that are either
= shallow or "deep" (high height).
= on sliders / glides that are either short or long ("deep" in one sense of the word).

Cabinet boxes Base cabinets. And drawers.

The drawers I'm referring to are the hardware and not the front panel.
To be cheapskate and or optimize-y, one may then customize from this point on.

The drawers are the hardware and not the front panel.
Although you SEE the front panel in photos, this is not the big thing about Ikea's value proposition.
Yes, you many also find good value in some or all of the front panels that Ikea offers.
An, you may gush one way or another about beauty.

But the big positive thing about Ikea is the box, and the drawer hardware, and the fact that the drawer is Sold To You As a Kit, Ready To Assemble, at a price that reflects all the savings inherent in their assembling the kit in advance and packaging it.

To redundate, I'll say that the drawers are sold as unadorned trays and sliders, onto which one screws clips onto ANY drawer front, and that one then attacher the clips to the drawer tray. This makes you a drawer. Or, in better English, this makes a drawer (for you) and it makes you into a drawer manufacturer, painlessly and unconsciously. Congratulations you now deserve congratulations for manufacturing original things.

In my kitchen, I put 15" high drawer fronts onto the Ikea deep drawers. No one had ever done this before.


Furthermore, know this: has a line of expensive drawers. These are the drawers that Ikea sells. Hint. Hint hint. If you wish to study the two companies' product offerings, you will discover that Ikea has made a long term deal for Blum to let them have a complete line of Blum products, without calling it a Blum product. For the most part, the two companies' products are interchangeable. Over the years and decades it seems that Ikea has gotten the right to make a few modifications. Not a big deal. But, if you ever come face to face with a specialist in Blum products, he would be able to run circles around you if you maintain that Ikea drawers are compatible with Blum. But this is just so that he may maintain that he is a valuable cog in the big wheel of the economy. You could bypass your local kitchen maker man (and not suffer not a whit.) Or, you could have a local kitchen person make anything by using Ikea stuff as a starting point.

The clips used to attach drawer fronts are the same, whether it's an Ikea drawer or a Blum drawer. (Of the Blum product line that corresponds to Ikea's.)

You have the option to go the expensive route at any time.

For my upper cabinets, I bought massively expensive "Blum Aventos HF" upswing hinge mechanisms, and I snap-clipped Ikea 15" by 30" opaque glass cabinet door fronts onto the Blum hinges, no questions asked. Worked like a charm. All designed to be 100% compatible.

Since Ikea and Blum are privately owned companies, it would not surprise me if one day I were to read in some report somewhere that they are owned by one and the same private holding entity.

Executive Summary:
For base cabinet drawers, Ikea sells you a prefabricated kit in a single bag, as a single purchase. Other kitchen people sell you Blum parts and then charge you for cutting a wood panel, to make a drawer bottom and a drawer back panel, so you pay a lot for Blum parts, the wood panel cutting work, and the assembly work. I did a bit of both in my kitchen. There is nothing wrong with using Blum parts for the small fraction of your kitchen that needs a different size from the Ikea options.



clipped on: 04.08.2012 at 09:46 pm    last updated on: 04.08.2012 at 09:46 pm

Is there a kitchen trash option that is hands free and out of sig

posted by: marti8a on 03.11.2012 at 09:06 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hands free and out of sight?

Or do I just want too much?


clipped on: 04.08.2012 at 09:20 am    last updated on: 04.08.2012 at 09:20 am

RE: Lights, faucets, sinks...ordering online? Urgent! (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: Parachuting on 03.29.2012 at 03:10 pm in Kitchens Forum

We ordered our powder room sink from FaucetDirect, and it arrived on time, well packaged, and no damage. I ordered my Silgranit sinks and Delta one-touch faucets from My granite fabricator told me to order my sinks from there as they had the best prices. Again, everything was well packaged, no damaged boxes.

We opened and inspected all the packages when we received them to check for damage inside, possible missing parts, or even the look of a "return" item, etc. Everything looked brand new.

We ordered our foyer light from Homeclick. We did have to return that one twice due to a wire issue but they were prompt in sending us a replacement.

However, none of our purchases have been installed so here's hoping it all works.


clipped on: 04.08.2012 at 06:33 pm    last updated on: 04.08.2012 at 06:33 pm

RE: Lights, faucets, sinks...ordering online? Urgent! (Follow-Up #15)

posted by: lalitha on 03.29.2012 at 10:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

BTW, Faucetdirect and lightingdirect are the same business and will combine orders for discounts. I ordered from quality bath a lot. Good customer service.



clipped on: 04.08.2012 at 06:34 pm    last updated on: 04.08.2012 at 06:34 pm

Loves2Cook4Six- Question about your pot rack cabinet??

posted by: california_dreamer on 11.19.2007 at 12:12 am in Kitchens Forum

Thanks so much for posting the photo of your pot rack mounted inside an upper cabinet.
I love this idea and want to use it in my kitchen. I got the pot rack from the Container Store but I am wondering how you mounted it to the shelf?
If mounted to the ceiling I see that you would screw the eye screws into the ceiling and then use the hooks to hang the rack. But I can't see how you would directly bolt it to a shelf since the top of the pot rack is not solid wood.
I hope I'm making sense . . .
If possible, could you explain how you bolted the pot rack to the shelf?
Thanks so much!


clipped on: 05.10.2012 at 10:17 pm    last updated on: 05.10.2012 at 10:17 pm

Miscellaneous Information

posted by: buehl on 01.03.2011 at 05:34 am in Kitchens Forum


clipped on: 05.11.2012 at 01:06 pm    last updated on: 05.11.2012 at 01:06 pm

Other Things... (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: buehl on 11.30.2011 at 12:31 am in Kitchens Forum

Other things to consider...

  • If you must have filler, consider filler pullouts. Rev-A-Shelf, for example, has 3"/6"/9" base filler pullouts and 3"/6" upper filler pullouts.
  • Consider deeper upper cabinets. Even an extra 1" can make a difference. Keep in mind that cabinets are measured based on overall measurements, that means the exterior measurements, not interior space.

    So, a 12" deep cabinet is really 12" on the outside. Once you factor in the thickness of the back wall, you now have only 11.25" to 11.5" interior depth. If you have framed, the interior depth is reduced again by the thickness of the frame.

    However, if you have overlay, you only lose depth due to the frame along the walls, the rest of the cabinet can use the frame space b/c the door sits in front of the cabinet.

    If you have inset cabinets, OTOH, you lose that space b/c the doors & drawer fronts sit inside the face frame, so those 12" deep cabinets are now down to 10.5" to 11" deep (depending on the thickness of your back wall & frame).

    So, a 12" diameter plate will not fit in a 12" deep upper cabinet. If you add an inch to the cabinet depth (13" deep), you now have that 1/2" to 3/4" back. 15" deep uppers are even better.

  • If you have the space, consider deeper counters either with deeper base cabinets or by pulling the cabinets out from the wall a few inches.
  • Staggered-height cabinets are personal preference, even with 8' ceilings. If you like them, get them.

    One thing to keep in mind, however, is that dust does accumulate on the tops of cabinets that are not to-the-ceiling. One way to make cleaning easier - line the tops with newspaper. When it's time to clean, just remove the newspaper with the dust that collected on top of it (and not on the cabinets themselves) and replace it with clean newspaper.

    If dust allergies or asthma are a concern, I recommend all cabs to the ceiling.

  • Double-bin trash them!!! Dogs cannot open them! (Our dogs learned how to open the step-on ones in our old kitchen!) With two bins, one can be used for recyclables and the other for trash.

    However, put it in the Prep Zone...and, if possible, near the Cooking and Cleanup Zones. If you only have one sink, your Prep Zone will end up on the side of the sink closer to either the range/cooktop or refrigerator. So, put the trash pullout on that side. Put the DW on the other will also keep the DW out of the Prep Zone (and the DW will not be an obstacle to work around while prepping.)

    Oh, and consider getting a foot pedal so you can open it hands-free.

  • Keep in mind aisle widths should be measured counter edge-to-counter edge, not cabinet-to-cabinet.
  • Strive for adequate aisle space, seating overhang, etc.
  • Measure your space 3 or 4 times (or 5 or 6 or 7 or....)!!
  • Measure from at least 3 different points vertically when measuring wall/space width...a foot or two off the floor, 4 or 5 feet off the floor, and near the ceiling...walls are not straight in most homes & you need to know your smallest measurements!

    Likewise, measure ceiling height at various points in your kitchen

  • Regarding different ceiling heights, plan for crown molding that's at least 2 pieces - the decorative piece for the top and a "plain" (or "filler") piece b/w the cabinet and the decorative piece. This "filler" piece is then cut to size to accommodate different ceiling heights...leaving the decorative piece the same size throughout the kitchen.
  • Above all...come up with a good functional layout before ordering your cabinets!!!!

Good luck!


clipped on: 05.10.2012 at 09:53 pm    last updated on: 05.10.2012 at 09:53 pm

RE: Please show me your 36' & 42' aisles, and your Long Thin Isla (Follow-Up #20)

posted by: kiffgirl on 04.07.2012 at 10:23 am in Kitchens Forum

Our island is only 29" wide and 7' 4" long. The pantry side aisle is 38" wide and the main aisle is 40" wide at the refrigerator and 44" where the prep sink/Advantium is. This works really well for us and we're always amazed at how many people comfortably hang out in there while entertaining. We have two counter stools on the narrow side and even while sitting there one can walk behind.



About how our space would be, although a little tighter around the fridge.
clipped on: 05.07.2012 at 08:01 pm    last updated on: 05.07.2012 at 08:02 pm

RE: Recessed lighting over island (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: bostonpam on 01.13.2010 at 09:24 am in Kitchens Forum

My island is 48" x 84" including an 18" overhang. I personally don't like recessed lighting in our period house but wanted a functional kitchen. We're putting in four 4" recessed lights approximatedly 12" in from the long side over the cabinets and 10" in on the short side. (The lights will not be around the island but around the cabinets under the granite) We do have a chandelier in the center but the recessed lights are my working lights. We have 9' 4" ceilings. Placements depend on height of ceiling and size of of the cans. Remember the light comes down like a cylinder and spills out more the further the distance. I think I read somewhere for our room (height wise, can size, etc.) the recessed lights should be 36" - 42" apart maximum.

I think most people have 5" or bigger lights. I started with 3" but my architect talked me into 4" lights. I have 5" in the shower and over the laundry area where there was no space for a regular light.


clipped on: 05.20.2012 at 10:30 am    last updated on: 05.20.2012 at 10:30 am

RE: Show me your Blum Spacecorner Drawers (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: loves2cook4six on 12.18.2010 at 05:50 pm in Kitchens Forum

I needed to maximize space so went with Magic Corner units

Closed it takes up the space of one cabinet door which I know looks like a bank of draws but is really a single panel as you can see on the next picture.

Hafele Magic Corner II unit closed

Open shows what's inside and it extends back into otherwise dead space

Hafele Magic Corner II unit open


clipped on: 05.10.2012 at 11:03 pm    last updated on: 05.10.2012 at 11:03 pm

Stone Information and Advice (& Checklists)

posted by: buehl on 04.14.2008 at 02:56 am in Kitchens Forum

First off, I want to give a big thank-you to StoneGirl, Kevin, Joshua, Mimi, and others (past and current) on this forum who have given us many words of wisdom concerning stone countertops.

I've tried to compile everything I saved over the past 8 months that I've been on this Forum. Most of it was taken from a write-up by StoneGirl (Natural stone primer/granite 101); other threads and sources were used as well.

So...if the experts could review the information I've compiled below and send me comments (here or via email), I will talk to StarPooh about getting this on the FAQ.

Stone Information, Advice, and Checklists:

In an industry that has no set standards, there are many unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject.

Slab Selection:

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

  • Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued, or brushed, should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches, or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man-made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab when looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab.

    Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

  • Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This was done at the plant where the slabs were finished. This backing adds support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often, these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.

  • Cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little.

    • Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e., there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure.

    • A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole other can of worms.

    • Resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer.

    • Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed do not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but it is still resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Tests (especially for Absolute Black) (using a sample of YOUR slab):

  • To verify you have true AB and not dyed: Clean with denatured alcohol and rub marble polishing powder on the face. (Get denatured alcohol at Home Depot in the paint department)

  • Lemon Juice or better yet some Muratic Acid: will quickly show if the stone has alot of calcium content and will end up getting etched. This is usually chinese stone, not indian.

  • Acetone: The Dying usually is done on the same chinese stone. like the others said, acetone on a rag will reveal any dye that has been applied

  • Chips: Using something very hard & metalhit the granite sharply & hard on edges to see if it chips, breaks, or cracks


  • Before the templaters get there...
    • Make sure you have a pretty good idea of your faucet layout--where you want the holes drilled for all the fixtures and do a test mock up to make sure you have accounted for sufficient clearances between each fixture.

    • Be sure you test your faucet for clearances not just between each fixture, but also between the faucet and the wall behind the faucet (if there is one). You need to be sure the handle will function properly.

    • Make sure that the cabinets are totally level (not out by more than 1/8") before the counter installers come in.

    • Check how close they should come to a stove and make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter.

    • Make sure they have the sink/faucet templates to work from.

    • Make sure have your garbage disposal air switch on hand or know the diameter

  • If you are not putting in a backsplash, tell them

  • Double check the template. Make sure that the measurements are reasonable. Measure the opening for the range.

  • Seam Placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

    Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality, and their placementand still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

  • Factors determining seam placement:

    • The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)

    • Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available

    • Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will influence seam placement here alone.

    • Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some do not. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.

    • Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -

    • Install-ability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again, 1,001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

    You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

    With modern glues and seaming methods, a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam is done well, there is - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

    Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

  • Generally, it is not a good idea to seam over a DW because there's no support for the granite, and anything heavy placed at or near the seam would stress the stone, possibly breaking it.

  • Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece

  • Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e., eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.
    Edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world. Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.


  • Seams:
    One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum [StoneGirl]

    • A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:
      • It should be flat. According to the Marble Institute of America (MIA) a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.

      • It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)

      • The color on either side of the seam should match as closely as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.

      • Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases, the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.

      • The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge, you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.

      • The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)

      • The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as closely as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try to make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

  • Checklist:
    • Check the seams for evenness and smoothness.

      • Make sure that the seams are neat and clean.

      • Make sure that the seams are not obvious.

      • Make sure the seams are butted tight

      • Make sure that there are no scratches, pits, or cracks

    • If sealing is necessary (not all granites need to be sealed):

      • Make sure that the granite has been sealed

      • If more than one application of sealer was applied, ask how long they waited between applications

      • Ask which sealer has been used on the granite.

    • Make sure the sink reveal is consistent all the away around

    • Check the gap of the granite at the wall junctions.

    • Check for inconsistent overhangs from the counter edges

    • Check for chips. These can be filled.

    • Make sure the top drawers open & close

    • Make sure that you can open & close your dishwasher

    • Make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter

    • Make sure that you have the appropriate clearances for your appliances

    • Check the edge all around, a good edge should have the following characteristics:
      • Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull, or waxy.

      • The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.

      • The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.

      • A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.

      • A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly, and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanical fabrication (i.e., CNC machines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

    • Run your hands around the entire laminated edge of yor counters to make sure they are smooth

    • Check surrounding walls & cabinets for damage

Miscellaneous Information:

  • More than all the above and below, though, is to be present for both the templating as well as having the templates placed on your slabs at the fabricator's
    If you canot be there, then have a lengthy conversation about seam placement, ways to match the movement, and ways to color-match the counters that will be joined at the seam

  • Find a fabricator who is a member of the SFA

  • When they polish your stone for you don't let them wax it. It will look terrible in 2 months when the wax wears off.

  • Don't use the Magic Eraser on granite--especially AB

  • Any slab with more fill (resin) than stone is certainly a no-no!!

  • When you do check for scratches, have overhead lighting shining down so scratches are easier to see

  • Don't let them do cutouts in place (granite dust becomes a major issue)

  • Granite dust can be a problem...some have heard of SS appliances & hoods damaged by the dust, others have heard of drawer glides being ruined by the dust

  • If you have wood floors--especially if you're in the process of staining or finishing them--make sure that they don't spill or drip granite sealer on the wood floors. Apparently the sealer interferes with the stain or finish process.

  • Suggested Prep for Installation:
    • Remove any drawers and pullouts beneath any sections that will be cut or drilled onsite, e.g., sink cutouts and/or faucet, soap dispenser, air gap, instant hot etc. holes, cooktop cutouts.

    • Then just cover the glides themselves with a few layers of blue painter's tape (or some combo of plastic wrap and tape)

    • If you make sure to cover the top of the glides and attach some of the tape to the cab wall as well (to form sort of a seal)and cover the rest of the glides completely with tape, you should be fine.

    • Usually the fabricators will have someone holding a vacuum hose right at the spot where they are drilling or cutting, so very little granite dust should be landing on the glides. What little dust escapes the vacuum will be blocked by the layer(s) of tape.

    • When done w/installation, remove the tape and use a DustBuster (or similar) on all the cabinets and glides

  • Countertop Support:

    • If your granite is 2 cm thick, then there can be no more then 6" of of unsupported span with a 5/8" subtop

    • If your granite is 3 cm thick, then there can be no more then 10" of unsupported span - no subtop required

    • If you need support, the to determine your corbel dimensions:

    • Thickness of Stone - Dimension of Unsupported Span = Corbel Dimensino

    • i.e., an 18" total overhang in 2 cm would require a 12" corbe; the same overhang in 3 cm would require an 8" corbel


clipped on: 04.08.2012 at 09:08 am    last updated on: 04.08.2012 at 09:11 am

RE: What is the best way to clean my new stainless appliances? (Follow-Up #38)

posted by: mset31CT on 04.29.2011 at 10:35 pm in Kitchens Forum

Ok I just tried the water + alcohol + lavender oil combo today. It wasn't cheap. Bought a nice big empty spray bottle at Bed, Bath, and Beyond: $5. Bought the essential lav. oil at a natural market: $11.50 for 0.5 oz. Pack of 5 microfiber cloths: $4 at Home Goods. Had the alcohol already and obviously had the water. So all in all over $20 to make the spray. The oil was pricey, but will last a LONG time--15 drops barely made a dent in the level of the oil in the jar.

I used 2 cups water, 1 cup rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl), and about 15 drops of lavender oil. It smells GREAT! :)

As for how well it works, well, it's definitely better than anything else I've tried, but I haven't tried much. It does leave a nice sheen. I used it on my granite counters as well and it really cleaned them up nicely. I have never used any oil based products on my appliances, so I didn't have any residue to get rid of. It's pretty good and I'll keep using it, as long as it keeps fingerprints at bay. Maybe it will work better over time as well. My mother is going to try Simple Green on her appliances and report back to me.

I will try vinegar next if I get tired of smelling lavender oil! ;-)


clipped on: 05.11.2012 at 09:17 pm    last updated on: 05.11.2012 at 09:17 pm

RE: What makes a good vs. bad granite fabricator? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: suzannesl on 04.24.2012 at 02:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

Our fabricator has some nifty electronics that allowed us to see and approve our granite cut ahead of time and gave us perfect lines along walls. Our install didn't require seams, but the seams in their showroom are perfect. Nifty electronics are not absolutely necessary, but it's a bonus. For those who work with older methods, measure and template, be sure to get a first hand look at their work and talk to past customers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Electronic assist granite fabrication movie


clipped on: 05.16.2012 at 12:42 am    last updated on: 05.16.2012 at 12:43 am

RE: What should go within easy reach of the cooktop? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: buehl on 12.08.2009 at 04:47 am in Kitchens Forum

This might also help...

  • Cabinet 1: 24" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 2: 30" base, 2 drawers + Warming Drawer
  • Cabinet 3: 6" filler pullout w/3 shelves
  • Cabinet 4: 36" cooktop base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 5: 6" filler pullout w/3 shelves
  • Cabinet 6: 31" base, 1 drawer + Microwave Drawer
  • Cabinet 7: 36" corner sink base w/15-3/4" square sink
  • Cabinet 8: 24" base, 4 drawers
  • Cabinet 9: 27" base, 1 drawer + 2 roll out shelves (2 doors)
  • Cabinet 10: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 11: 21"W x 12"D x 30"H upper, 3 shelves
  • Cabinet 12: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 13: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 14: 21"W x 12"D x 30"H upper, 3 shelves
  • Cabinet 15: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 16: 36"W x 24"D over-the-refrigerator cabinet
  • Cabinet 17: 33" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 18: 18" Trash Pullout + 1 drawer (2 bins)
  • Cabinet 19: 36" sink base w/35-1/2" sink
  • Cabinet 20: 24" DW
  • Cabinet 21: 27" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 22: 31.5" double-oven cabinet, 1 drawer + cabinet above w/dividers for tray storage & 1 shelf
  • Cabinet 23: 23"W x 12"D x 36"H upper cabinet, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 24: 23"W x 12"D x 36"H upper cabinet, 4 shelves
  • NOTES:

    Complete with pictures!
    clipped on: 05.12.2012 at 09:46 pm    last updated on: 05.13.2012 at 12:37 am

    when soft close drawers slide back in effortlessly

    posted by: davidro1 on 12.27.2011 at 11:44 am in Kitchens Forum

    Here is a tip for anyone who likes to optimize and get things "just right".

    I installed one of my deep drawers such that its glides were slanted slightly, not completely flat. The slant is upwards in front by about 1/8th inch.

    When this drawer is pulled out it stays out, so the slant I gave to the glides is not too much. Just right. So far so good.

    I repeated the experiment with a second drawer. Same good result.

    Now for the really good part. There are two advantages.

    To make it slide back in, and go in all the way, I give it a little bump. Not more. This IS BECAUSE of the slant. Without the slant, a bigger bump would be needed. A bigger bump would make things move around more. The drawer holds a lot. It is heavy. I have many other deep drawers that hold a lot. Pushing them back in requires more push. They often stop moving before reaching their resting position, so they require another push. Thus, advantage #2 is that one push to get moving is all the drawer needs. Once the drawer begins rolling it can carry itself past the last minute hump that makes soft close be soft close.

    Ah ha. I see a connection. The glides installed horizontal, not with a slant, need more push and don't always make it back to home. The glides that I slanted a bit are far more pleasing to me.


    Lessons learned.
    1./ a minor slant is good.
    When glides are fully extended, the glides bend a little, in any case.
    Therefore, compensating for that bend is a good thing.

    2./ pushing my heaviest drawer requires the least work
    (because its glides were installed with a minor slant.)
    3./ once the drawer begins rolling back in, it keeps on going and reseats itself perfectly.
    (because its glides were installed with a minor slant.)

    other deep drawers with heavy items halt before reaching the re-seat position.

    Does the slant show up on the drawer front?
    No, it is not visible in front.

    Which drawer glides are these?
    Blum Tandembox. (from Ikea and from Blum).

    How much slant?
    The slant in question is minor. YMMV. Don't overcopy any number here. Your glides may be different. Your loads too. Even your drawer glide length may be different. My heaviest drawer's glides were slanted somewhere in the range of 1/8th inch (+ or - a tad). When any full extension drawer is pulled out its span is increased 20 to 24 inches.

    Nothing beats real life experimentation. Two years ago I posted to ask about this as a mind exercise and everyone (except one) posted negatives and treated their negative points as certainties.

    Using a level, I can see that all my heavily loaded deep drawers slant downwards when pulled out. This confirms that metal bends a little. That's normal. A heavily laden wood drawer would bend a little too.

    If I had to do it all over again, I would slant the entire run of cabinets a 1/16th" back. Then the countertop could be installed with a bit more silicone under the back and a bit less under the front, to make the countertop slant by only 1/32th" or to be flat horizontal. (silicone can be used to level). Besides, a minor slant to the back is not a bad thing. From what I've seen of the shallow drawers, a minor slant would not hinder their proper functioning. They would stay out when pulled out.


    One day I might remove the drawers to measure glide slant on the cabinet sides.


    clipped on: 05.16.2012 at 06:40 pm    last updated on: 05.16.2012 at 06:40 pm

    LED recessed cans guide for kitchen ...

    posted by: davidtay on 01.30.2012 at 01:27 am in Lighting Forum

    A collection of tips/ answers
    Since kitchens have higher lighting requirements, I like to use 35 lumen per sq ft as a rule to compute the number of lights. If there are additional sources of light that will be used, the output (lumens not watts) from those sources can be deducted from the total.

    Placement/ layout
    1. Cans should be > 24 to 30 inches from the wall (on center). Most countertop spaces have upper cabinets (typically ~ 12" deep) + crown molding. The edge of the can may be spaced ~ 12" away from the edge of the crown molding (if present or cabinet if there is no crown molding) making the average distance between 26 to 30 inches.

    2. Assuming the need for a fairly uniformly lit space @ 35 lumens per sq ft, the cans may have to be spaced closer together - between 3 - 4 ft apart (if all general lighting is provided by recessed lights). A fairly regular pattern is preferable to a random layout.

    3. The actual layout of cans will be impacted by the location of ceiling joists, HVAC ducting, electrical wiring, plumbing, ceiling height, fire suppression sprinklers and other obstructions above the ceiling.

    The Cree LR6 series lamps do not dim as well as the later models (CR6, ...). ELV dimmers probably work better with LR6 than incandescent dimmers since the total load of the lights may not meet the minimum load requirement for the incandescent dimmer.

    Dimmers such as the Lutron Diva CL dimmers work well. The max output is 95%.

    Some Choices (in order of preference) and notes
    Cree CR6 or ECO-575 (Home Depot branded CR6)
    ECO4-575 (Home Depot branded Cree CR4 4" recessed light)
    The above are only available in 2700k light color.

    Cree LR6 series - including the LE6.

    The Cree CR6 and LR6 lamps will not fit into 5" housings.

    The standard LR6 behaves more like a surface mount than a recessed light as the LED emitters are close to the surface and the recess is shallow. Some may not like the amount of light spillage (standard LR6).

    There is a higher output version of the LR6 that has a much deeper recess.

    To prevent the Cree lamps from falling out, the 3 prongs have to be fully extended and a slight clockwise twist made when push installing. The slight clockwise twist will ensure that the prongs are fully extended.

    The Cree lamps are currently the best available today (2012).

    Sylvania RT-6, RT-4. The lights could be easier to install than Cree lamps as they utilize the torsion spring mechanism. However, the lights do not look as pleasant as the Cree lamps.

    The Cree and Sylvania lamps do outperform 26W CFLs (and incandescents) in a standard recessed can in terms of light spread and output as the standard bulb in a can solution traps a significant amount of light. The Cree and Sylvania recessed lamp solutions referenced above have all the LED elements facing outwards so that the effective light output is higher.

    The CRI (Color Rendition Index) of Cree and Sylvania recessed lamps > 80.

    There is no warm up time required for Cree recessed lamps, unlike CFL light bulbs.

    Most recessed lighting is used with flat ceilings. Sloped ceilings would require special solutions such as the LE6 or some other form of lighting (i.e. -non recessed lighting).

    Some common objections to recessed can lights stem from
    1. looks and performance of traditional can lights (standard bulb in a can)
    2. swiss cheese effect from too many holes.


    clipped on: 05.09.2012 at 09:21 pm    last updated on: 05.09.2012 at 09:21 pm