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RE: Capital Culinarian owners, post reviews,photos of your new ra (Follow-Up #114)

posted by: brianplee on 04.19.2012 at 11:07 pm in Appliances Forum

Trevor - yes you can use my pictures but wait until the kitchen is done. I'm an avid photographer so let me shoot some reasonable shots. Let me know your email address and I'll send them to you.

Michelle - I'll post more picture as soon as the kitchen is done in a couple of weeks. The backsplash stone is called White Kinawa and was purchased from Pietra Fina in Hayward, CA

The countertops are Virginia Mist, also from Pietra Fina but are hard to see in this shot.


clipped on: 04.21.2012 at 12:17 am    last updated on: 04.21.2012 at 12:18 am

RE: Capital Culinarian owners, post reviews,photos of your new ra (Follow-Up #110)

posted by: brianplee on 04.19.2012 at 12:24 am in Appliances Forum

Just received our new 60" Capital Culinarian today! It's a special order 10 burner version. Hope to be cooking on it soon!


clipped on: 04.21.2012 at 12:16 am    last updated on: 04.21.2012 at 12:17 am

RE: cooking with cast iron (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: danab_z9_la on 03.07.2007 at 05:17 pm in Cookware Forum


I really enjoyed reading your article on the care and use of cast iron cookware. You have collected and shared some really good information. However, I'd like to point out that the claim to "never use soap" to clean cast iron is based on old folklore and has no scientific basis that I am aware of.

In the "old days" it was very common for folk to make their own soap. Soap simply is the potassium or sodium salt of a fatty is the end product of a reaction between Potassium or Sodium hydroxide with an animal or plant fat. Lard and Olive oil were used quite extensively for soap making.

Early folk boiled wood ash extract to get Potassium Hydroxide for making a soft soap. By the early 1900's lye (or Sodium Hydroxide) became readily available in cans and was the raw material of choice for making soap. One of the advantages folk realized in using lye was it produced a hard soap and they didn't have to boil all of that wood ash extract.

Folk used cast iron vessels in which to boil the wood ashes or lye, with animal fat to produce soap. One of the observations they made in the soap making process was that it removed the seasoning of the cast iron kettle. This is where the folklore to "NEVER USE SOAP" began. The error here is that it is not the soap that removes the patina or seasoning on the kettle; rather, in reality it is the Potassium or Sodium hydroxide alkalie that removes the pot seasoning.

Patina development on cast iron is a two part process. The first part involves developing a thin layer of polymerized oil on the cast iron. This is accomplished by applying a thin coat of oil to the cast iron surface and heating it in an oven until it dries to the surface. When done properly this layer of polymerized oil CANNOT be removed by either soap or dishwashing liquid. The only way to removed this layer is by vigourous mechanical scrubbing (i.e. brillo pad), by caustics (lye, draino, or oven cleaner), or by burning it off at temperatures greater than 500 deg F (on BBQ pit or in Self Cleaning oven).

The second part to true Patina development on cast iron involves the actual lay down of carbon on the cast iron surface. This happens at temperatures slightly above the smoke point of the seasoning oil. You MUST heat cast iron above the smoke point to get actual carbon black into the patina matrix. If you do not heat to the smoke point you will only have polymerized oil in the coating........this is a protective coating but it is not as slick a surface as a mixture of both carbon and poly molecules.

Keep in mind that grease splatter inside of an oven undergoes the same chemical reactions as what goes on in the cast iron seasoning process. If soaps or detergents really were able to remove seasoning from a pot, then cooks could actually clean the inside their ovens with Ivory soap or Dawn liquid soap/detergent. We all know that doesn't work and is why oven cleaner and self cleaning oven cycles were invented!

I'll comment on the following in the near future:

1) Oils used for seasoning.
2) Old cast iron is superior to today's stuff.
3) Proper cleaning procedures

Thanks for making your article available for comment.



clipped on: 06.28.2011 at 03:44 pm    last updated on: 06.28.2011 at 03:44 pm

RE: Did I make a mistake? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: alexr on 04.08.2011 at 12:44 pm in Appliances Forum

I agree with tyguy, the distance between outer flame holes is less than 5 3/4 inch from tip to tip actually closer to 5 5/8". So from the center of the pan, to the outer edge of flame the difference between the Bluestar and the CC is about 1/4 of an inch. You may also notice that the CC outer ring of flames 'shoots' out sideways somewhat, especially on high, because the flame holes are on a slant facing outward.

Also, on the Bluestar, it is only the few holes at the end of each finger that extend out that far, while on the CC, it is the entire ring of flame.

I would love any of the shills to dispute these criticisms of the CC and the ones I listed earlier in this thread. (Not Trevor or amcook, who know what they are talking about, but the shills who don't own either range, but 'seem' to think of themselves as experts!) For months I have been reading your so called advice and even rude attacks on owners with your dubious knowledge about ignitors,etc, and shilling for CC- wow, that's exactly what it's been- you don't even own one. Thanks for the gossip.

To answer the question about the oven door and lube. For a year or so, Bluestar has been working on the door problem with various fixes, that seem to work fine (but it was hard to know for sure because it takes a few years of oven use for the problem to develop). They now have new hinges that are going in the new ranges, this fixes the problem at the source. The earlier fixes of venting and insulating the old hinges in the door also seems to be working. The most recent doors going out to old customers (for free) will have the new hinges as well. I know this because I spoke with several folks at the factory, because my 4 year old Bluestar had a sticky door.


clipped on: 04.09.2011 at 03:09 am    last updated on: 04.09.2011 at 03:10 am

RE: Did I make a mistake? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: alexr on 04.07.2011 at 11:14 pm in Appliances Forum

I'd like to stand up for the Bluestar for a moment if you will...
Bluestar ignitors are great and always have been. The now old models had a bad module at one time, many years ago. The new models even have separate circuits to each ignitor.

The Bluestar simmer is far and away better than what's offered by Culinarian, because they don't offer a simmer burner ...Not just for a true low simmer, but for medium and high with a small diameter pan. Put a small pan on a Culinarian and turn up the power and you'll see. People can cook rice on large cap sealed burners too, it can be done, but that's not the point. The point is the number of flame holes, the size of the holes and the diameter of the pattern.

The reason Bluestar has eight fingers is so that the flames go between the grates. While a portion of the Culinarian circular flames go up and heat up the grate, not the pan

And yes, the Bluestar cooktop is even easier to clean, while the Culinarian has two levels to remove, and the supports to the grates as well. In fact, if you watch the video that Culinarian has you can see that there's so much going on between the burner and the drip tray that liquid or other material barely makes it down to the tray. It's certainly not "open" to the drip tray, more like semi-open or semi-sealed...Instead, it (the bread crumbs and liquid and other debris,) hangs up in nowhere land among stainless sheet steel and brackets, or float on top of the burner before making its way down the small gap. Be careful not to cut yourself.

It's amusing if you think that is easier to clean... more like an erector set to me. But the flames go up, and that's really all that matters, no cap over the burner itself...

The Bluestar is a breeze to clean and easy to see whats going on once the grates are removed.

Now, lets go on with this rant and discuss the Capital oven- the broiler on the Culinarian is covered with glass. I guess this is so you can turn the convection fan on while broiling...that also makes no sense. But the glass makes it harder to clean and so the broiler becomes less and less useful as it gets covered in grease.

Do you know how hard it is to clean the inside of your oven door glass? Now imagine you have steaks, burgers, chops, and other fatty foods popping grease up on the glass Culinarian broiler from an inch away. You start to think maybe you do need that self clean feature..

And then you have the metal brackets that hold the glass up. Good luck cleaning all those edges and corners and rivets/bolts.

And did you know that IR rays do not like going through glass to begin with? It depends of the wavelength of the IR and the emissivity of the glass. Heated air from the gas fueling the ceramic doesn't like glass either.

The Bluestar has no such 'possible' problems. Whatever splatters up on the broiler is burned off. No glass to interfere with the Infra-red. No metal angle brackets hanging down into the oven cavity to clean.

Also the Bluestar has real chrome plated oven rack guides along the sides of the oven that are easily removed, so that the oven trays will not drag along the porcelain paint like the Culinarian-(and other cheaply built ranges) in fact with the Bluestar, you can take the side guides out and lay them down on the oven floor if you need a super low rack and don't want to put your extra large turkey directly on the oven floor.

To repeat, in my opinion, to criticize an old Bluestar module from years ago is silly, especially since Capital have already changed their burners and ignitors because of problems (within 6 months of being released) and got rid of their small 'simmer' burner. What's next? Anyway, that's what I say to the Bluestar bashers who don't know what they're talking about. In 4 years of owning a Bluestar, I've had two problems, the spark module, and the oven door, both items Bluestar has fixed and eventually improved. It is a noble beast of a cooking machine.

The Culinaian looks like a great open burner rangetop. And I realize you are not getting an oven, or broiler, just the rangetop. Get it with the smallest (island trim) backsplash, so that curved pans can fit over the back edge. The ones pictured on the Capital look higher than they need to be, but maybe someday down the line they'll fix that too. Q.E.D.

Now, I'll apologize and say that the above was just a taste of what I've been reading from some bashers on this forum, only toward the range that I own and use.
If people are going to be critical, they should take off the magic glasses they seem to wear for whatever is new and shiny.
I think the Culinarian is a great choice and may be your best choice. Really I'd be happy to own either one. The people who have cooked on the Culinarian seem to be very please with it's performance.


clipped on: 04.09.2011 at 03:08 am    last updated on: 04.09.2011 at 03:08 am

RE: cooking with cast iron (Follow-Up #72)

posted by: danab_z9_la on 09.01.2007 at 11:53 pm in Cookware Forum

DM, I generally "season" my cast iron until it is "cured". Cured means its surface has been seasoned several times and has developed sufficient patina where the pan is no longer reactive. A cured pan does not need to be coated with oil for storage because sufficient seasoning layers are on the pan surface which provides sufficient protection.

Paul, as I indicated in an earlier post in this thread I would be cleaning and seasoning several pieces of cast iron using different oils and oil blends. After seasoning six vintage cast iron vessels, I must concur with you that GRAPE SEED oil is a wonderful oil for seasoning. It is much better than most other oils and fats that I have used.

I used grape seed oil (in the vegetable oil classification) to season an old Griswold #43 (9 inch) chef skillet after completely removing the old seasoning on the cooking surface. The surface is now shiny-black, hard, and super slick....perfect for eggs. I still have quite a few more vintage items to clean and season and expect to take pictures to document for later postings under separate threads.

If anyone has access to Alcor MCCR test equipment and would like to collaborate with me for a possible publication on The Proper Cleaning and Seasoning of Cast Iron, please contact me by e-mail. Chemists and/or lab techs familiar with Petroleum refining quality control testing may have access to this type analyzer.



clipped on: 08.28.2008 at 12:57 pm    last updated on: 08.28.2008 at 12:57 pm

RE: Marble poultice (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: mnhockeymom on 05.01.2008 at 07:14 am in Kitchens Forum

I cut and pasted some info into a Word doc that I saw on this forum - I can't give specific credit to anyone but here it is:

"Here's a poultice formula for coffee:
Make a solution of 20-30% peroxide (available at beauty supple places...wear gloves Mine is called Salon Care 30Extra Lift Volume Creme. Bought it at Sally's Beauty Supply Store.) and a few drops of ammonia. Then mix in some sort of WHITE "material;" e.g., paper towel, napkin, tissue. Make only enough to cover the stain. It should be paste-like (consistency of peanut butter).
Wet the stained area with distilled water. Pre-wetting fills the pores of the stone with water isolating the stain and accelerating the removal by the chemical.
Apply the poultice to the stain being careful not to spill any on the non stained areas. Apply approximately 1/4-inch thick over-lapping the stain area by about one inch.
Cover the poultice with plastic (food wrap works great). Tape the plastic down to seal the edges. It also helps to poke several small holes in the plastic so that the powder will dry out. Failure to do this may result in the poultice staying wet.
Allow the poultice to dry thoroughly. This is a very important step. The drying of the poultice is what pulls the stain from the stone into the poultice material. If the poultice is not allowed to dry, the stain may not be removed.
Drying usually takes from 24 to 48 hours.
Remove the poultice from the stain. Rinse with distilled water and buff dry with a soft cloth. If the stain is not removed, apply the poultice again. It may take up to five applications for difficult stains.

Here's some additional tips!
For the "white stuff" you are going to use for your poultice powder base ... get some diatomaceous earth ("DE"). You can get this really CHEAP at a pool supply store or free if you know someone with a pool that uses it. It is used in some pool filtering equipment. I went to the pool supply store and they gave me some since all I wanted was a small amount.
Good info on stain removal:
Iron (rust) - Poultice with Oxalic Acid + Powder + Water. May also try a product called Iron-Out (available at hardware stores). Both mixtures may etch polished marble, so re-polishing will be necessary.
Ink - Poultice with Mineral Spirits or Methylene Chloride +Powder.
Oil - Poultice with Ammonia+ Powder Methylene Chloride can also be used on tough oil stains.
Coffee, Tea & Food - Poultice with 20 percent Hydrogen Peroxide + Powder.
Copper - Poultice with Ammonium Chloride + Powder
Paint (water-based) - poultice with a commercial paint remover + Powder
Paint (oil) - Poultice with Mineral Spirits + Powder. Deep stains may require Methylene Chloride.

Hope that helps!! Good Luck!!


clipped on: 07.15.2008 at 01:49 am    last updated on: 07.15.2008 at 01:49 am

RE: Which are the Best quality cabinet hinges? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: hotgranitekills on 07.03.2008 at 11:38 pm in Kitchens Forum

That is a Ford / Chevy argument with cabinet makers. I use Grass, used to use Blum. I'll tell you though, Salice have one benefit over every other hinge out there. They don't bind when the adjustment is maxed out like Grass and BLum do. Only a cabinet guy would notice though.

Stay away from Integra hinges, or any of the Chinese made hinges. They cast their base plates, lots of them snap off. Grass or Blum base plates are stamped not cast. Lots tougher.


clipped on: 07.04.2008 at 10:21 pm    last updated on: 07.04.2008 at 10:21 pm

RE: Bluestar No. 25 (Follow-Up #127)

posted by: trevorlawson on 04.25.2008 at 09:24 pm in Appliances Forum

not easy to explain but here goes

1 kneel down and hold the door with handle towards you, with the door resting on the floor at a 45 degree angle.
2 push the hinge down with your foot.
3 while the hinge is down pull the little clip on top of the hinge back towards the door, this will lock the hinge in place .
4 release the hinge slowly it will come back and stop at an angle.
5 hold the door at 45 degree angle to the range.
6 put the two hinges in the holes at he base of the oven cavity.
7 push the bottom of the door in gently with your thigh.
8 close the door, it will appear the the door is about 1" to high (this is ok)
9 keep a little pressure on the bottom of the door and open it fully.

and that should be it........good luck


clipped on: 04.26.2008 at 04:26 am    last updated on: 04.26.2008 at 04:26 am

Natural stone primer/ granite 101 by stonegirl

posted by: mary_in_nc on 11.04.2007 at 09:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Found this through google search- apparently this was a previous thread in KF by Stonegirl. Felt it worth repeating.

Hi folks -

This is a little article I wrote on another forum and in reply to a few questions regarding the selection of natural stone and stone fabricators.

In an industry that has no set standards, there are a lot of unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued or brushed should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab, looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab. Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This got done at the plant where the slabs were finished and is to add support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.

On cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e. there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure. A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole nother can of worms.

On resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer. Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed does not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but gets resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Now for some pointers on recognizing good craftsmanship and quality fabricators:

Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality and their placement and still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:

- It should be flat. According to the MIA a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.

- It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)

- The color on either side of the seam should match as close as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.

- Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.

- The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.

- The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)

- The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as close as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try an make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

Seam placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

Among the things the fabricator needs to look at when deciding on the seam placement are:

- The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)

- Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available

- Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will impact seam placement here alone.

- Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some don't. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.

- Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -

- Installability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again a 1001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

With modern glues and seaming methods a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam was done well, there would be - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs, and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece.

Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent, would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e. eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.

Like I said earlier - edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.

A good edge should have the following characteristics:

- Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull or waxy.

- The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.

- The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.

- A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.

- A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanised fabrication (i.e. CNC macines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

We have seen some terrible edges in jobs done by our competitors.

Do your research and look at actual kitchens. Talk to clients and ask them about the fabricator. Most good fabricators will not hesitate to supply the names and numbers of clients willing to provide referrals. Do your homework.



clipped on: 04.19.2008 at 02:10 am    last updated on: 04.19.2008 at 02:10 am

100% completed kitchen, Cherry Shaker cabinets

posted by: theresab1 on 11.09.2007 at 06:46 pm in Kitchens Forum

Cherry cabinets in Shaker style by Plain & Fancy
Sub Zero 48 inch fridge
Wolf 36 inch rangetop
Wolf double oven
GE microwave
GE under island fridge beverage center
Franke Pro Series sinks
Cephelia Faucets
Azul Macaubas Granite
Original hardwood floors to house

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clipped on: 04.16.2008 at 03:44 am    last updated on: 04.16.2008 at 03:44 am

RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: buehl on 01.23.2008 at 05:33 pm in Kitchens Forum

LOL! It took me a while to figure it out as 13-yo son told me how.

You user HTML codes surrounded by angle brackets (< and >)

You put a "beginning" code where you want the format (Underline, etc.) to start and an "ending" code where you want it to end. The "ending code is the same as the beginning code except you precede it by a slash (/)

Some Codes are:

Bold: strong
Underline: u
Italic: i
Superscript: sup

The following are included in the "font" code:
Color: color = "name of the color, e.g., red, blue, etc.
Font: face = "name of the font e.g., arial"
Size: size = "how much smaller/bigger than normal e.g, -1, +2"

Some examples. Note: take out the space between the bracket and the code. I had to put them in so it would show up instead of using the code!

< strong>Bold< /strong> you...Bold
< u>Underline< /u> you...Underline
< i>Italic< /i> you...Italic
< font color = "blue">Blue< /font> you...Blue
< font face = "arial">Arial< /font> you...Arial
< font size = "+2">Larger< /font> you...Larger
< font color = "red" face = "arial">Arial in red< /font> you...Arial in red

I hope this isn't too "tech-y".....


clipped on: 04.12.2008 at 08:00 pm    last updated on: 04.12.2008 at 08:00 pm

RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #62)

posted by: buehl on 03.27.2008 at 05:32 pm in Kitchens Forum

Napagirl, just copy the following into a Notepad file and save it.

&lt;a href= http://www.XXX/&gt;Description&lt;/a&gt;

Then, when you need to use it, just open the Notepad file, copy the above line into your Message, and

  • Replace "http://www.XXX/" with the link you wish to post and

  • Replace "Description" with the description of the link.


clipped on: 04.12.2008 at 07:57 pm    last updated on: 04.12.2008 at 07:57 pm

RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #45)

posted by: weed30 on 01.24.2008 at 08:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

Here's a tip for all you HTML teachers - instead of showing the code with spaces or asterisks and telling people to remove the spaces or asterisks, you can show the actual code you're wanting to show by using the HTML 'example' command. It is xmp. So you put&lt;xmp&gt;at the beginning, and /xmp> at the end.

&lt;font color=red&gt;Cool, eh?


clipped on: 04.12.2008 at 07:55 pm    last updated on: 04.12.2008 at 07:55 pm

//RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #31)

posted by: starpooh on 01.24.2008 at 12:23 pm in Kitchens Forum

This image might make it easier to find the buttons in the HTML Tag Generator:

btw... I didn't include the underscore because it's not good to underline text on the web.. folks assume anything underlined is a link and will try to click on it. :-)


clipped on: 04.12.2008 at 07:52 pm    last updated on: 04.12.2008 at 07:52 pm

RE: Curious about text in messages (Follow-Up #29)

posted by: starpooh on 01.24.2008 at 12:05 pm in Kitchens Forum

I downloaded a version of "cod-o matik" but couldn't get it to run. So I searched around for an online version and came up with this:
Easy HTML Tag Generator.
It's a WYSIWYG editor ("What You See Is What You Get") that allows you to easily generate html code. It's used on many websites these days (including the Forum FAQ site), so it may be advantageous to learn!

There are alot of fancy things it can do, but these are the basics:
1. Type your text
2. Highlight an area of text and select an appropriate button:

  • Bold text: Click the bold B button. Click again to turn off.
  • Italic text: Click the italics I button. Click again to turn off.
  • Colored text: Click the downward arrow to the right of the large A. Select a color.
  • Highlight Background text: Click the downward arrow to the right of the highlighter with the yellow "ab". Select a color.
3. To view the html: Click the HTML button
4. Copy and paste the html into your forum post.

Give it a try! It's fun to "play" with!

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy HTML Tag Generator


clipped on: 04.12.2008 at 07:51 pm    last updated on: 04.12.2008 at 07:51 pm

Yahoo!!! We Have Cabinets!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

posted by: buehl on 04.08.2008 at 12:10 am in Kitchens Forum

It's been a LONG haul but we're finally getting to see our cabinets! They began installing the base cabinets on our window/sink wall today...what do you think? (I love them!) The stain & glaze look even better IRL than in my small door sample...but I think I still miss the Artesia door!

I tried out the full-extension & soft close on the drawers and I LOVE them both!!! My DH is excited about the self-close as well...he said, "that's all I really cared about...the cool self-close!"

Drawer Glides: Blumotion Tandem Plus
Cabinet Hinges: Salice, S-Series, 1-1/4" Overlay

And here are some pictures

Note the superb paint job :-)
(well, primer on walls, primer + paint on ceiling)

Left of sink: Refrigerator (above ref cabinet on it's side in the space the refrigerator will go) + 33" Drawer Base + 18" Trash Pullout (+ 36" Sink Base)
Left of Sink

Right of sink: (36" Sink Base +) 24" DW (space is empty right now) + 27" Drawer Base + 31-1/2" Double Oven cabinet for 30" Double Ovens. To the right of th Oven cabinet will be 1" filler + corner pantry (not built yet)
RIght of Sink

Other pictures:

Close up of Drawers

Doors above Ovens
(Yes, I know the doors are not hung evenly, I WILL be sure this is fixed!)




clipped on: 04.08.2008 at 03:43 am    last updated on: 04.08.2008 at 03:44 am

Another Fall recipe to share.

posted by: aptosca on 09.25.2007 at 09:57 pm in Cooking Forum

I was talking to my Mom today and we were talking about our favorite things to bake. She sent me this recipe back in 1975 a year after I graduated from college and was on my own in Chicago. I have been making it ever since. The loaves come out very flavorful and moist. They are always a hit when I take them to social gatherings. It makes 2 loaves so you can freeze one for later. It was a Betty Crocker recipe she saw in a magazine. I hope you enjoy them as much as we have.


Apple Raisin Loaves
3 eggs
1 cups vegetable oil
2 cups chopped unpared apples
1 cups sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla
3 1/3 cups all purpose flour
2 teaspoons baking soda
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1 teaspoon cloves
2/3 cup chopped nuts
2/3 cup raisins

Heat oven 350 deg. Grease and flour 2 loaf pans, 9x5x3 inches. Beat eggs, oil, apples, sugar, and vanilla on low speed, scraping bowl occasionally for 1 minute.
Add flour, baking soda, baking powder, salt, cinnamon and cloves. Beat on low speed, scraping bowl occasionally until moistened, about 15 seconds. Beat on medium speed 45 seconds. Stir in nuts and raisins. Spread in pans.
Bake until wooden pick inserted in center comes out clean, 55 to 60 minutes. Cool 10 minutes; remove from pans. Cool completely before slicing. Refrigerate leftover bread. You can also freeze the loaves once cool.

Carrot Loaves Substitute 2 cups shredded carrots for the apples. Add 2 Tablespoons grated orange peel with vanilla. Omit raisins.

Rhubarb Loaves - Substitute 2 cups chopped rhubarb for the apples. Add 2 Tablespoons grated lemon peel with vanilla. Omit raisins.

Zucchini Squash Loaves - Substitute 2 cups chopped unpared zucchini for the apples. Omit raisins.

Sweet Potato Loaves - Substitute 2 cups shredded sweet potatoes for the apples. Add 1/2 cup shredded coconut with vanilla. Add 1/4 cup water with the flour mixture. Omit raisins.

Squash Loaves - Substitute 2 cups shredded squash for the apples. Omit raisins.

These next three I have came up with on my own and they work also.

Pumpkin Loaves - Substitute 2 cups mashed cooked pumpkin (canned is fine) for the apples. Raisins are optional.

Persimmon Loaves - Substitute 2 cups mashed very ripe persimmon for the apples. Raisins are optional.

Banana Loaves - Substitute 2 cups mashed very ripe banana for the apples. Add 1 cup chocolate chips optional but good!

Note: Unbleached flour can be used in this recipe. If using self-rising flour, omit baking soda, baking powder and salt.


clipped on: 12.03.2007 at 02:04 am    last updated on: 12.03.2007 at 02:04 am

Advice Needed on How to Update My Retro Kitchen - With Pictures!

posted by: lisannabelle on 09.16.2007 at 03:02 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hello All!
This is my first official postalthough I love reading the forums, Ive never felt very qualified to post. However, I would love any advice on my kitchen. To give some background, we just moved into a small Cape Cod with lots of potential. The project that I cannot figure out is our kitchen. I love the layout of the cabinets and drawers. However, I am not loving the peel-and-stick tile, the paint job on those cabinets, the cabinet hardware, the walls, and, most contentiously, the counter. We wont even go into appliances (the refrigerator is too large for the space, and I prefer gas stoves). I have four-ish questions. Please excuse our mess, we moved in a month ago!

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Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

This counter is so retro I cant believe its still around. Part of me, the cheap part, says, "Embrace retro as your kitchen decorating theme!" and go from there. The other part thinks that nothing screams outdated, ugly kitchen like a crazy red formica counter. For what its worth, its in amazingly good shape for its age (I have no idea when it was installedany thoughts are welcome). So the first issue is: do I keep the counter? If so, issue two becomes what color I should make the cabinets. I could sand and stain or re-paint in white or another color. I was thinking about doing the floor in a dark slate-like material in this sort of pattern:

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Issue three: does anyone know of a good source (i.e., cheap) for achieving this sort of look? Finally, issue four: what color do I paint the walls as a result of counter/cabinet choices?

Our overarching considerations are that we are on a tight budget, we probably wont live in this house forever, and we dont want to over-update for our house/area. However, we have to put a fair bit (for us!) of money into the house for other basic things (water in the basement, exterior trim needs to painted, we just put on a new roof, etc.), so we would at least like to recoup those costs. If doing some cosmetic updating to the kitchen would help that overall, then were willing to spend a bit for overall better presentation. At the very least, Im planning on re-painting the walls, re-doing the floor, installing new cabinet hardware and doing something to cabinets themselves. Well also get a new sink faucet.

I know that compared to some of the gorgeous kitchens Ive seen here that mine is considerably less exciting. But I would sincerely appreciate some objective advice. I was hoping to go for a clean, timeless look with just a hint of vintage. Here are some photos of kitchens I love:

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Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Thank you all so much for reading this incredibly long post, I would love to hear your thoughts!


clipped on: 11.15.2007 at 11:52 pm    last updated on: 11.15.2007 at 11:52 pm

RE: Lacanche Ranges Part 37 (Follow-Up #101)

posted by: chef-marty on 10.27.2007 at 11:03 am in Appliances Forum

Hi drec1500,

Congrats on the sully+2. It must seem like cooking on an aircraft carrier.

I could go on for about an hour or so disscussing roasting but this is how I cook a prime rib.

I never long roast in a convection oven. If you have your face turned into the wind, you get chapped lips right? It will dry your roast. Also electric ovens are drier than gas ovens.

I would sear it in the convection for the first 30 minutes or so at maybe 400 only to seal the outside and trap in the juices and then when golden move it to the gas oven at 300 or 325. That is plenty low. It would take forever in the warming cabinet.

The "per pound" doesn't work as you know. If you buy a larger prime rib, it just gets longer so actually it will cook in the same time as a smaller one. It is the thickness that determines cooking time and the temperature of the meat before it goes in the oven. Some people let their roasts stand at room temp for a while before cooking. It should take 3-4 hours to cook to medium rare but again it depends on how it is trimmed.

If it gets too dark, tent it with aluminum. If you want to pretend that you have a La Cornue vaulted oven, place a pan of water in the oven along with your roast to keep the air moist. The roast will be the juiciest it can be.

Anyone wonder what a trullo looks like? Here is ours under construction. Opps! How do you post photos?



clipped on: 10.29.2007 at 01:08 am    last updated on: 10.29.2007 at 01:08 am

RE: Zelmar...your gorgeous kitchen...questions for you. (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: zelmar on 09.20.2007 at 09:30 am in Kitchens Forum

alexamd, it's difficult to see from a small sample, but the overall look isn't all that polished. There seems to be some matte mixed in (not very obvious in a photo, either.) After the initial sealing(s), we haven't had to do anything to our counters over the past 2+ years. DH does want to do another sealing in the near future although I don't see that it needs it. Good luck with all your final decisions!

teachbls, I love having cabinets to the ceiling. My kitchen isn't huge, 13x16 with 8'4" ceilings, but the height of the cabinets help make the space seem larger.

Our cabinet company had several boards of hardware they offered and since we didn't want to put the hardware on ourselves, we chose from their selection. It was kind of nice having a narrow selection since the choice seems overwhelming otherwise. I think they are oil rubbed bronze. I don't have any close ups of the hardware, if I have a chance, I'll try to get a few pictures later today. I don't have any recent pictures of the southwall, especially toward the mudroom. I have 2 of the 3 pendants hanging and I've been waiting on the 3rd pendant (along with 2 pendants for over the main sink.)

northwest, north, and northeast
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

west, east from kitchen, east from eating area (during installation):
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

west before range, southwest (before upper cab on peninsula), peninsula cabinets during installation
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


clipped on: 09.22.2007 at 02:46 am    last updated on: 09.22.2007 at 02:46 am

RE: Sheet vinyl flooring? Anyone? (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: alexr on 10.30.2006 at 05:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

Both of the links given above by amandaw33 are indeed myths from the vinyl floor Industry Shills. I refer you to the last sentence of the myth link: " Tony Sain is the marketing manager for Lonseal Flooring, Carson,
Calif., a leading innovator in designer sheet flooring for more than 30

It is reprehensible to suggest putting these materials in babies mouths. In fact many of these products have been taken off the market.

Speaking of children, here is a lession plan about vinyl:

And here is one written by a Columbia University researcher,Joe Thornton, Ph.D. who also has been published by MIT Press...

You'll note that the article I listed above,
was also written by a biologist.

Vinyl flooring is toxic to make, and toxic to live with,toxic in a fire and toxic in our landfills.

Yes, other flooring also has VOC's, but Vinyl has lead,mercury,cadium,and other HEAVY METALS that outgass, along with phthalates that mess with our reproduction system, causes Cancer and is linked to asthma.

The amount of real scientific studies (not Industry Lies),bears this out.

Perhaps Steve o. had to get his flooring from Canada because the plant that made half of the total U.S. production blew up in 2004. See the oriononline story.

Finally I'll try to link to a long report from the Center for Health, Environment and Justice where you can download a 100 page report as well as other resources on PVC.

Here is a link that might be useful: PVC is Bad News


clipped on: 11.04.2006 at 09:33 pm    last updated on: 11.04.2006 at 09:33 pm