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RE: Height between pantry shelves? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: buehl on 01.16.2009 at 12:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

This is what we did in our corner step-in pantry:

[The MW, btw, didn't fit so it is not in the pantry as originally planned.]


Also, SharB once posted her measurements but the thread has long since fallen off. I saved them and here they are:

+++

[Sharb's] pantry measures 4 feet wide by 5 feet deep.
Starting at the top:

18" top shelf to ceiling (Things I don't need often or are lightweight.)
15" to next shelf (cereal boxes, etc.)
10" to next (canned goods, etc.)
10" to next (canned goods, etc.)
16" to next (small appliances)
20" from bottom shelf to floor (extra waters, heavy items)

The depth of the back shelf and the right side 12". The left side is 6" and holds my [SharB's] husband's hot sauces and other small items.

NOTES:

Shelf spacing ideas
clipped on: 01.11.2014 at 09:21 pm    last updated on: 01.11.2014 at 09:22 pm

Lid Storage

posted by: olivertwist on 04.03.2013 at 06:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

Please help me figure out how to store the lids for my pots/pans. I'm trying to decide between these two options.


I know some people here advocate vertical storage, but I don't think I'd like that and I don't think I have the space for it.

I plan to have a 3 drawer stack for pots/pans, sort of. The top drawer will be skinny for utensils. The middle and lower are for pots/pans. However, the compost pail is inset into the counter at this spot, so the utensil drawer will have about a 12" cut-out to accomodate it, and the middle drawer will probably have a cut out, too.

Drawers are about 36" wide. We are getting extra deep and frameless, so I *think* KD said they'll be 24" deep. (Counters will be 27" - I'm sorry, I just don't remember if that means I have 24" or 27" of actual usable space in the drawer - but I did specify extra deep drawers here). Currently the KD has designed the 2 larger drawers to each be 9" high.

I don't have a LOT of pots/pans, but want to make sure I don't run out of room, and would like to store my lids separately. I like the 1st option where the lids are tilted sideways behind the pots, but I have two large lids (for big skillets) that are 12.5" in diameter, so that won't fit in a 9" deep drawer. My tallest "normal" pot is 5.25". I would love to fit my giant stockpot in there too (8" high) if possible, but can put it over the fridge if I have to.

KD was concerned that in order to do the 2nd option with the little roll out within the drawer that we'd have to make the drawer deeper or I'd lose space in it or something. And/or then the middle drawer would end up being shallower.

I feel like Marcolo trying to calculate the math of which will fit best and it's making me crazy.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

This post was edited by olivertwist on Wed, Apr 3, 13 at 19:06

NOTES:

<none>
clipped on: 09.17.2013 at 10:22 pm    last updated on: 09.17.2013 at 10:22 pm

RE: Apples to Oranges: KD's, framed/frameless, Shiloh/Diamond? (Follow-Up #24)

posted by: a2gemini on 09.02.2013 at 12:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

I think both materials have advantages and disadvantages to them...
I had the sidewall that blew out due to weight and not enough screws. I am still working on the resolution - I will be splitting the drawer longways and have a second drawer iinside the first drawer.
That being said - I am not sure plywood wood have been any better in this situation...
Not finding my picture in Photobucket but I think this will link
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitchbath/msg1020404519236.1022150813285.jpg if you copy/paste. And here is the full version of the thread - http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1020404519236.html

NOTES:

Drawer reinforcing problem
clipped on: 09.03.2013 at 11:08 pm    last updated on: 09.03.2013 at 11:09 pm

Journey's End - Final Reveal

posted by: gpraceman on 08.12.2013 at 09:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

Well, our kitchen remodel journey is finally over. We bought our house last summer as a "diamond in the rough". After many minor fix-up projects, we were ready for a major one. We started demo on May 16 and we finished today (August 12). It would have been much sooner had our granite fabricator not miscut our island slab. We waited over a month for the slab yard to get more of our granite in (Crema Bordeaux). Friday they came and installed the island granite, so we were able to get our cooktop, vent hood and pendants in finally.

If you want to read through our journey, check out http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0513472324035.html

Below are photos of our old kitchen. Very builder basic. Honey oak cabinets with center stiles (DW hated the stiles). Small island. Laminate counters. Wasted space called a desk. Cheap appliances. Dated builder basic pendant over the kitchen table. Poor lighting layout. Pony wall that catches clutter. Only one way in/out of the kitchen.

Before photo DSC03801_zps8d59d371.jpg

Before photo DSC03803_zpsf4c24969.jpg

Before photo DSC03804_zpsd33a9f90.jpg

Before photo DSC03805_zpsf089d8c7.jpg

Before photo DSC03807_zpsa7348a73.jpg

We removed the pony wall to open up the flow. The hardwoods were refinished to a lighter color and also were carried into the family room. The cabinets are custom, made out of Cherry, with a "Spice" stain. Soft close doors and drawers. They were made by Tharp Cabinets in Loveland, CO. Price-wise, they were comparable to the Kraft Maid quotes we got, but Tharp included installation. So, overall it was less expensive going with custom cabinets from Tharp.

Finishing the hardwoods, running the gas line to the cooktop, retexturing the ceiling, and granite installation were done by others but we (DW, two teenage sons and myself) did the rest. We did all of the demo, electrical, lighting, plumbing, drywall, baseboards, venting for the vent hood, appliance installation, painting, backsplash, and even installed some of the cabinet accessories.

We saved $1600 on appliances by sale shopping and that includes $700 in rebates from Lowe's and Bosch. Lowe's price matching came in handy. A lot of research went into the appliances, trying to find ones that fit our budget and were well rated.

The backsplash is a honed travertine in a linear mosaic. We didn't want the backsplash to compete with the Crema Bordeaux granite, but we did want it to have some interest to it. The only accents on the backsplash are the copper looking outlet covers.

If you want to read about our inexpensive DIY UCL, check out http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0620295110811.html

 photo DSC03922_zpsf3c86bc8.jpg

 photo DSC03925_zpsfe3589c2.jpg

 photo DSC03923_zpsabff8ccb.jpg

36" gas cooktop and 36" vent hood are Whirlpool Gold. We hated cooking on the electric range as it was so hard to clean and temps varied too much. We are glad to be back using gas. Big holes in the ceiling had to be made to run the vent duct out the side of the house.

 photo DSC03928_zpsc2443242.jpg

Eventually, we will replace the refrigerator with a stainless one. It wasn't in the budget to replace it now and it works just fine. Kitchen Aid countertop microwave with 30" trim kit above 30" Kitchen Aid convection oven. Extra tall drawer below oven for tall pots. Refrigerator surround extends 29" from the wall.

Refrig/Oven/Microwave photo DSC03935_zps87843cad.jpg

Regular shelved pantry for miscellaneous storage against the wall. Food pantry with pullouts next to it. Coffee and tea station.

Pantries photo DSC03938_zps6e2be9bc.jpg

Stools have too dark of wood, but for $25 each on clearance we'll live with them. We are really surprised at how much that seating area gets used. DS likes eating his breakfast and lunch there. DW likes sitting there with her laptop.

Island - Back photo DSC03943_zps715a4b6a.jpg

Decorative side panels. 15" deep cabinet for storage of table cloths and place mats. Baseboard molding wraps the sides and back of the island.

Island - Side photo DSC03929_zps2f2e2007.jpg

We went with all drawered cabinets for the front of the island, for easier storage of pots, pans, utensils, dishes, and so on.

Island - Front photo DSC03949_zpse74772d6.jpg

Custom sized bookshelf with extra tall base. Vent grating at bottom of bookshelf was our solution for the air return that was in the old pony wall.

Bookshelf photo DSC03942_zps2112e43e.jpg

We found a lighting collection that we liked and replaced the fixtures in the nook, dining room, foyer and entry. Fortunately, the collection also had pendants. Here's a view of the light shade.

Light Shade photo DSC03961_zpsba1bd16d.jpg

Shutoff valve for the gas cooktop is under the island granite overhang. "Hidden" granite support brackets under the overhang.

Gas Shutoff photo DSC03954_zpsb52dd942.jpg

Recharging station in back right cabinet of island so we can hide away electronics when we have company.

Recharging Station photo DSC03955_zpsaa33ec5c.jpg

We love our copper farmhouse sink. Our kids call it a bathtub. We got it from Menards on sale for $559, regularly $699, with free shipping to boot. Home Depot carries the exact same sink on their website. We also love the air switch for the disposer. The under sink filter system also supplies water to the refrigerator. The window sill was made from left over island baseboard molding.

Hammered Copper Farmhouse Sink photo DSC03947_zps4a158163.jpg

Towel holder from Rev-a-Shelf. It was under $4.

Towel Holder photo towelholder_zpse9109290.jpg

Bosch 800 Plus Series dishwasher. We love this dishwasher. 3rd rack for silverware is great. Extremely quiet and cleans very well.

Bosch Dishwasher photo DSC03959_zpsebf01d49.jpg

Bosch Dishwasher photo DSC03960_zpsbce0d849.jpg

We have an extra pullout on order for the bottom section of our pantry, since DW wanted a pullout in the top section. She is on the short side, at 5'3".

Pantry photo    <BR>pullouts2_zpsd2d26e77.jpg

18" dual trash pullout with soft close from Rev-a-Shelf. Drawer above is used for trash bags. Our trash provider collects recyclables, so the back can is for those and the front for trash. I wish I could find a blue can for recyclables, as I know guests will want to put trash in there.

Trash Pullout photo pullouts4_zps3b94603b.jpg

DIY cutting board holder made from leftover island baseboard molding.

Cutting Board Holder photo DSC03962_zps64ecf523.jpg

Baking sheet pullout from Rev-a-Shelf. DIY install. We lose some storage space with this, but access is so much easier.

Baking Sheet Pullout photo pullouts3_zps37e5736e.jpg

We couldn't afford to do all drawer bases, but we wanted one of the regular base cabinets to at least have pullouts for DW's Tupperware.

Pullouts photo pullouts1_zps2bad4c89.jpg

Super Susan serves as storage for small appliances.

Super Susan photo supersusan_zps869e7ac8.jpg

Cooking utensils drawer. Drawer was scooped to fit under cooktop. It is also only 15" deep, to leave room for the gas cooktop connection and regulator.

Cooking Utensils Drawer photo DSC03956_zps882faca3.jpg

Pots and pans storage under the cooktop.

Pots and Pans Storage photo drawer2_zps615f2560.jpg

Cutlery Drawer. Custom insert from Wood Hollow Cabinets. If we didn't already have organizers for the other drawers, we would have gotten Wood Hollow ones for them as well.

Cutlery Drawer photo drawer3_zps67e91c24.jpg

Dishes drawer. Racks are from IKEA. We had considered a peg board organizer, but these racks make it easy to pull out a whole stack of dishes for entertaining.

Dishes Drawer photo drawer1_zps4b96cede.jpg

Rather overcast that day, but DW loves her view of the Rockies.

Mountain View photo DSC03940_zpse69e2a45.jpg

The scope of the project grew to include the Family Room. Since we were taking out the carpet and extending the hardwoods, I wanted to do something with the fireplace. I really did not like the tile used as the hearth and surrounded the fireplace. Here's the before photo:

Family Room - Before photo After1_zps44516f7d.jpg

The mantel was big and clunky (drywall over a frame of 2x4's). So, that was all ripped out and I designed and built a fireplace surround. It is inlaid with soapstone and soapstone tile surrounds the fireplace. A soapstone slab hearth finishes it off. We had oiled it, but thought that we would let it return to the bluish grey color, that is why it looks splotchy right now. For some reason, the oil hangs around better on some of the tiles and not others.

We painted the wall a bluish gray to help coordinate with that color in our Crema Bordeaux granite. The built-ins flanking the fireplace were an earlier DIY project.

Family Room photo family1_zpseef53fb1.jpg

Family Room photo family2_zps0ea09d5d.jpg

Well, the scope of the project grew once more to include the Powder Room. The hardwood floor guy asked me to remove the toilet so he could sand under it. Well, if the toilet was coming out, so was the pedestal sink that DW and I hated. So, we hunted around for a vanity that we liked. We found the one below but didn't like the top that came with it. So, I got another piece of soapstone slab and cut, shaped and sanded it. Soapstone tile is used for the backsplash. I saw that end profile on the web somewhere and just had to do it. I love how you can use regular woodworking tools on soapstone. The hammered copper sink is from the same company that made our farmhouse sink.

Powder Room photo powder_zps0d99aa14.jpg

This post was edited by gpraceman on Thu, Aug 15, 13 at 1:52

NOTES:

Drawer options
clipped on: 08.16.2013 at 10:36 pm    last updated on: 08.16.2013 at 10:36 pm

RE: What should go within easy reach of the cooktop? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: buehl on 12.08.2009 at 04:47 am in Kitchens Forum

This might also help...

  • Cabinet 1: 24" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 2: 30" base, 2 drawers + Warming Drawer
  • Cabinet 3: 6" filler pullout w/3 shelves
  • Cabinet 4: 36" cooktop base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 5: 6" filler pullout w/3 shelves
  • Cabinet 6: 31" base, 1 drawer + Microwave Drawer
  • Cabinet 7: 36" corner sink base w/15-3/4" square sink
  • Cabinet 8: 24" base, 4 drawers
  • Cabinet 9: 27" base, 1 drawer + 2 roll out shelves (2 doors)
  • Cabinet 10: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 11: 21"W x 12"D x 30"H upper, 3 shelves
  • Cabinet 12: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 13: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 14: 21"W x 12"D x 30"H upper, 3 shelves
  • Cabinet 15: 18"W x 15"D x 36"H upper, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 16: 36"W x 24"D over-the-refrigerator cabinet
  • Cabinet 17: 33" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 18: 18" Trash Pullout + 1 drawer (2 bins)
  • Cabinet 19: 36" sink base w/35-1/2" sink
  • Cabinet 20: 24" DW
  • Cabinet 21: 27" base, 3 drawers
  • Cabinet 22: 31.5" double-oven cabinet, 1 drawer + cabinet above w/dividers for tray storage & 1 shelf
  • Cabinet 23: 23"W x 12"D x 36"H upper cabinet, 4 shelves
  • Cabinet 24: 23"W x 12"D x 36"H upper cabinet, 4 shelves
  • NOTES:

    Kitchen layout
    clipped on: 08.06.2013 at 10:52 pm    last updated on: 08.06.2013 at 10:52 pm

    RE: Please post pics of your organized cabinets and drawers (Follow-Up #23)

    posted by: meyersdvm on 07.22.2013 at 03:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

    Here are a few of mine that I didn't show in my reveal
    My baking drawer
    Untitled
    Food storage and lunchbox prep
    Untitled
    Dish Drawer
    Untitled
    Cutting boards and baking trays
    IMG_8527.jpg
    Knife drawer
    IMG_8522.jpg

    Here is a link that might be useful: Creamy white and stainless reveal

    NOTES:

    Baking sheets storage
    clipped on: 07.29.2013 at 07:44 pm    last updated on: 07.29.2013 at 07:44 pm

    The Next Step...Planning For Storage

    posted by: buehl on 01.03.2011 at 05:23 am in Kitchens Forum

    Planning For Storage

    Once you've finalized your basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size & configuration of your cabinets and drawers.

    1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your new kitchen, regardless of where it's stored now...kitchen, basement, dining room, etc.

    2. Next, take the list and group the items according to function. Will they be used during prep? cooking? baking? cleanup? Some items, like pot holders, may belong in two different zones (in this case, cooking & baking). You can either find storage between the two zones or have duplicates and store one in each zone.

    3. Now, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)

    4. The next step depends on the stage you are in the design/order process...

    5. If you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have. So...

      • Identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.

      • Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.

    6. If you are still in the design phase, you will have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.
      • Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.

      • Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).

      • Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)

      • Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.

    You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

    Sample storage map: http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x108/Buehl/2008-2009 Remodel/Kitchen/20 Designs/Storage Plans/StorageMapping-CooktopWall.jpg

    This process and the resultant "map" will not only help you to "see" how things will fit, but the map will also help when you move back into the kitchen...you won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy map for everyone to use when attempting to find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

    Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!

    Common Zones, Appliances In That Zone, and Suggestions For What To Store There:

    • Storage--pantry & refrigerator--Tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags

    • Preparation--sink & trash/recyclables--utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books, paper towels

    • Cooking--cooktop/range & MW (and near a water source)--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.), paper towels

    • Baking--ovens/range--utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins, paper towels [often combined with Cooking Zone]

    • Cleanup--sink & DW & trash--detergents, linens, dishes & glasses, flatware

    • Eating/Serving--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR--table linens, placemats, napkins, dishes & glasses, flatware

    • Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords

    • Message/Communication/Command Center--keys, phones/answering machine, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard, pens/pencils, sticky notepaper

    Less Common Zones:

    • Tea/Coffee Bar--tea/coffeemaker (and near a water source)--mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot

    • Snack/Beverage Center--near MW & refrigerator or small refrigerator--snacks, snack dishes, glasses [often combined with Tea/Coffee Bar]

    • Pet Zone--feeding area--food, snacks, leashes, medicines (if no children in the home), etc.

    Overlapping of Zones

    Due to space constraints, some zones often overlap. If this is the case in your kitchen, be sure there is enough work space in the overlap for both activities. Zones that commonly overlap...

    • Prep & Cooking Zones--These zones should be adjacent to each other, so this is a common overlap and is generally not a problem. Just be sure you have enough room for prepping as well as landing space for the range/cooktop. (It is strongly advised you have enough room for emergency landing space on both sides of a range/cooktop.)

    • Prep & Cleanup Zones--If there is only one sink in the kitchen, these zones will be adjacent to each other because of the need for a water source for both zones. However, true overlapping is not generally a good idea. Instead, try to keep the cleanup area separate from the prep area by putting the sink between them. E.g., DW on one side, Prep Zone on the other side. (You should strive to keep the DW out of the Prep Zone as well as out of the path between the sink and Prep & Cooking Zones and between the refrigerator and Prep & Cooking Zones.) Also try for at least 36" (42" or more is better) of room on the Prep Zone side of the sink for ample workspace as well as accommodating the inevitable dirty dishes that will accumulate next to the sink.


    Commonly Used Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

    Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

    Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer


    SPECIAL NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.


    Some helpful threads:

    forestfire..please help me with my lists [Missing In Action as of 5/16/10...if anyone has saved it, please let me know by emailing me via "My Page"]

    List of stuff in kitchens?

    What should go within easy reach of the cooktop?

    What goes where?

    Reloading the new kitchen, any tips where things should go?

    Only one lower cabinet...would you do it?

    NOTES:

    <none>
    clipped on: 07.29.2013 at 06:17 pm    last updated on: 07.29.2013 at 06:17 pm

    Posting a Link

    posted by: buehl on 01.03.2011 at 04:37 am in Kitchens Forum

    There are two ways to post a link:

    To insert a link using the provided boxes below the "Message" box:

    1. Insert the link in the "Optional Link URL:" box

    2. Type in the description or name of the item being linked in the "Name of the Link:" box

    3. If this is a new Post, you won't see these two boxes until you "preview" your message. So, compose your message and "preview" it. You will now see the link boxes and can now enter your link information.

    To insert a link inside the "Message" box,

    1. Copy the following into the "Message" box where you want it:
      <a href= http://www.XXX/>Description</a>
    2. Next, replace the http://www.XXX/ with your link

    3. Now, replace the Description with the description (words) you want displayed with your link.

    With either method, you will see your link when you next "preview" your message


    ********************************************************
    [Please, do not bump this thread!]

    NOTES:

    <none>
    clipped on: 07.29.2013 at 06:16 pm    last updated on: 07.29.2013 at 06:16 pm

    New To Kitchens? Posting Pics? Read Me! [Help keep on Page 1]

    posted by: buehl on 07.16.2013 at 10:22 pm in Kitchens Forum

    Welcome! If you are new to the Kitchens Forum, you may find the following information and links helpful.

    Note: This will probably be the final "Read Me" thread. The FAQs are almost done!


    The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)/Articles pages contain helpful information about how to navigate this site as well as the world of kitchen renovations.

    The Kitchen Forum Acronyms will help you understand some of the acronyms used frequently in posts.

    The Finished Kitchens Blog has pictures and information about many GW members' finished kitchens. Not only can you see them alphabetically, but you can also use the "Find-A-Kitchen" function to utilize several search options if you're looking for specific things like a kitchen w/a Beverage Center or a kitchen w/a mix of dark and light cabinets. Access "Find-A-Kitchen" via the via the menu bar at the top of any FKB page. Additionally, "Find-A-Kitchen" contains a link to "In-Progress Kitchens" for those members' kitchens that are not quite ready for the FKB. There is also a link to "Coming Soon Kitchens" for those kitchens that are ready for the FKB but have not yet been added. To access the "In-Progress Kitchens", the "Coming Soon Kitchens", and the "FKB Categories", see the links on the menu bar at the top of any FKB page.

    The Appliances Forum is very useful when you have questions specific to appliances.

    To start off the kitchen remodel process...take the Sweeby Test. Then, move on to Beginning a Kitchen Plan.

    Other topics such as layouts, planning for storage, and stone materials are discussed in later topics in this thread. Even more information can be found by doing a search on the forum.

    Tips:

    • Before posting a question, please search the forum. There's a very good chance someone has already asked the question.

    • When using the "search" function, be sure to use the search box on the bottom of the page, not the top!

    • Note, however, that you will probably have better luck searching if you use Google (or similar search engine) than if you use the Forum search function. When using Google, to limit your results to Garden Web, include the following in your search criteria: ***site:ths.gardenweb.com

    • In the Subject, the site changes the double quote used as the inches indicator (") to a single quote ('). We don't know why. To compensate, use two single quotes and it will appear as a double quote in the Subject. Luckily, the double quote works in the message box.

    • When composing a new thread, you have a couple of options:

      • Have replies emailed to you: check the box offering this option. However, you must have "Allow other users to send you email via forms at our site." box checked in your profile for this to work (see the "Your Profile" link at the very top of the page) [See the post later in this thread with the Subject: Getting Emails Sent To You...3-step Process]

      • Insert a link: When you "preview" your message, you will be provided with two boxes for a link...one is for the link itself and the second is for the name or description of the link.

    • New! A new function was recently added, you can now edit a post that you've submitted. So, if you discover a typo or realize you made a mistake, select the "Edit Post" link in the upper right corner of the post under the "Clippings" section. One thing, it's good etiquette to add a comment as to what you changed. (No, it's not required.)

    • When using the "Clip this post" option (far upper right corner of each post, small print), remember that only the current post is clipped, not the entire thread. Also, you are allowed a maximum of 50 clippings. Once you reach this max, you will no longer be able to clip or email posts.


    How are the home page and the Forum organized? (based on the Kitchen Forum's FAQs entries)

    • The Kitchens Forum home page lists 30 thread titles, starting with those that don't yet have a response. After the unanswered threads, threads are listed in order of most recent response. That first page displays the last 2 hours or so of activity. (If there is no response to a thread in an hour or two, the unanswered thread usually starts to drop.)
    • Below the thread list are page numbers 1-67 for the total 67 pages of threads available -- capturing maybe 2 months or so of threads, less when the Forum is busy.
    • Below that (and at the top of the thread list as well) is a space for you to switch to the Conversations or Gallery "sides" - these are set up similarly but are not nearly as active.
    • Next down is a Search box -- very important! This is also the Search box you should use (not the one at the top of the page.)
      • Always refresh the page two or three times b/f assuming a thread has disappeared right after starting it.
      • As to searching...a thread will not be found doing a GW search for up to 24 hours after it has been started. This may seem too technical, but...searches are done against what are known as "indexes". Indexes use key fields/words to find things. iVillage only indexes threads once a day. So, that means that until your thread is "indexed", it won't show up in a search. If you start a thread just before the index is taken, you will be able to retrieve your thread by searching soon after creation. If, however, you start your thread right after the daily index, then you will have to wait almost 24 hours for the next index.

    • Next is a place for you to start a new thread. And finally there are some instructions and links at the bottom.


    Kitchen Forum "Sides"

    Discussions: This is the "side" you are on. It is for on-topic discussions concerning kitchens...renovations, use of, etc.

    Conversations: This is the "side" where you can post off topic threads such as regional get-togethers and non-kitchen subjects.

    Gallery: This is the "side" where members often post pictures...especially if you're posting a lot or a finished kitchen.


    Again, welcome and good luck! The journey is wild, sometimes bumpy, but fun and very rewarding in the end!


    Note: The links in this Read Me thread have been updated to reflect the new Finished Kitchens Blog (thank you StarPooh!)

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    clipped on: 07.29.2013 at 06:13 pm    last updated on: 07.29.2013 at 06:13 pm

    My UCL install

    posted by: gpraceman on 06.21.2013 at 08:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

    There is a little bit of a lul in our kitchen install due to a granite snafu, so I thought that I would get the UCL installed. I think that it turned out pretty well and they seem plenty bright to me. Total cost was $161 using Armacost brand LED strips from Home Depot.

     photo DSC03906_zpsde8c9875.jpg

     photo DSC03913_zps0619fea3.jpg

    Needed parts were:

    + 30W power supply (Home Depot)
    + 12ft LED tape (Home Depot)
    + Snap connectors for the LED tape (Home Depot - online only)
    + 18 gauge CL2 rated speaker wire (Monoprice)
    + Wire connectors (Home Depot)
    + Terminal strip and jumpers (Radio Shack)
    + 3/4" wide aluminum flat bars (Home Depot)

    I could have done without the aluminum bars, but it made mounting easier. The 12ft of LEDs was perfect for our needs, as I had just a little left over. If we wanted to, we could have added a dimmer between the power supply and the LED strips, but we like our lights bright and likely would never dim them.

    Here's basically, how I installed them:

    1) Cut the LED tape so there is a maximum number of LED's to fit under the cabinet, but leaving a bit of space for snap connectors on the ends.
    2) Cut the aluminum bar a bit shorter than the LED strip, so the snap connectors can fit over the tape ends.
    3) Peel off the LED tape backing and press onto the bar.
    4) Attach pieces of heavy duty double sided tape to the back of the bar. For the longer runs, I used 3 pieces of double sided tape and just two for the shorter runs.
    5) Using a 3/4" wide wood strip as a spacer, adhere the bar under the cabinet.
    6) Attach the snap on connector to the end of the tape.
    7) Use mini self adhesive wire clips to tidy up the wires.

    The spacer makes placement easier and puts the LED's about 1-1/4" from the front edge of the cabinet frame. That distance works out well, as there is no shadow of the front edge being cast onto the counter. To make sure that polarity of the strips would not be an issue, all strips where mounted so the writing on the strips were all in the same orientation with respect to the front edge of the cabinet.

    Before the cabinets went in, I installed an outlet above one cabinet, controlled by a switch. It is hidden by the crown molding. Plugged into that is the 30W power supply. The output side is connected to a terminal strip which allows connection of the two LED runs. Speaker wire runs behind the wall and to the bottom of the upper cabinets flanking our window.

     photo DSC03903_zpseec1a759.jpg

    The two upper cabinets flanking the window were notched around the speaker wires. That is the only modification of the cabinets that was required in this whole install. Bullet connectors attach the speaker wire to the first LED strip in the run.

     photo DSC03910_zpsf4cfff7b.jpg

    Snap connectors for the LED tape daisy chain the strips together. Once the light rail is installed, any wire hanging down a bit will be hidden.

     photo DSC03911_zps51ff5185.jpg

    Though, after bending over backwards to mount these strips, I may need to get DW to give me a good back massage.

    This post was edited by gpraceman on Sat, Jun 22, 13 at 11:38

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    Led light tape
    clipped on: 07.14.2013 at 03:52 pm    last updated on: 07.14.2013 at 03:52 pm

    What is in a well stocked pantry?

    posted by: meyersdvm on 05.01.2013 at 11:43 am in Kitchens Forum

    Like so many of the rest of of you TKOs, I am living out of boxes while we are redoing the kitchen. I have been reading and re-reading threads about pantry and spice organization, etc.
    I am a recovering stockpiler. I used to keep no less than 6 boxes of cereal in the house at any time. BOGO, make that buy 3 get 3 for my household. We are trying to eat cleaner and have less waste now, so when I put things back in my new kitchen, I want to make sure it is worth the storage space. I am sure this will vary due to how often and what one likes to cook, but what are your pantry essentials, how much do you keep, and how do you store it?

    For example, I plan to keep dried beans and rice, and other whole grains in glass containers in my pantry with chalkboard labels.

    Please share what are your pantry essentials.

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    clipped on: 07.01.2013 at 11:21 pm    last updated on: 07.01.2013 at 11:21 pm

    RE: Everything I Wanted to Know About Drawers... (Follow-Up #5)

    posted by: angela12345 on 02.02.2013 at 02:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

    I have posted this other places before, but I am going to try to consolidate it *all* in one place.

    My kitchen cabinets from UltraCraft are semi-custom. LOVE them. They are Frameless cabinets that allow size modifications in 1/16" increments to height, width, and depth (or all 3) at no additional cost. So, go ahead and make your uppers 13" or 14" deep for those extra large mixing/salad bowls and charger plates, and maximize your storage space for example storing glasses 4 deep instead of 3 deep. Have deeper base cabinets. Make your toekick slightly shorter so you have an extra inch or two for more drawers height. Cut down on the fillers you need by making your cabinets the exact width you need them, instead of being forced to choose from 3" increments. I like that all my uppers are flat across the bottom (no frame/dividers between cabinets), so I could install one long plugmold and one long under cabinet light, then hide it all with lightrail at the front. Also, standard is Blum full extension soft close drawer glides, soft close doors, no charge for finished sides (like end of cabinet run), all dovetail drawers with fully captured bottoms, and bunches of other stuff is standard. 100 year warranty.
    http://www.ultracraft.com/ Yep, I LOVE them !!!

    Cabinet Decisions - I emailed this part to a friend recently, so am copying here ...
    1. One of the first things to decide is what cabinet door overlay you want. Inset doors or overlay doors ? Inset doors sit inside of the cabinet box frame rather than attached to the front of the cabinet box. Overlay is further broken down into traditional overlay, partial / modified overlay, and full overlay and determines how much of the cabinet box/frame behind the door you want to show. The hinges can be exposed or concealed for all overlay styles except full overlay which only allows for concealed hinges. The overlay you choose will automatically knock out some cabinet options and cabinet mfgs who may not make that type of cabinet. (My cabinets are full overlay)
    See ... http://www.hansoncustombuilders.com/questions3.html
    And ...http://www.kraftmaid.com/learn/choose-right-cabinetry/door-overlays/

    2. Then you want to decide on the cabinet boxes ... framed or frameless ? Some mfgs only make one or the other, but not both, so this will knock out other mfgs. Framed cabinets have a frame on the face of the cabinet box that the doors attach to and allows for inset doors as well as all 3 overlay styles (traditional, partial, and full overlay). On frameless, the doors attach directly to the cabinet box sides instead of a face frame. Frameless are typically full overlay, but inset is also possible. I think a small partial overlay is possible on frameless if you are using semi-custom or custom cabinets - you would order slightly smaller doors so a little of the cabinet box would show. Traditional overlay is not possible on frameless because the cabinet box sides are not wide enough to show the traditional 1"-2" of the face frame. (My cabinets are frameless)
    See ... http://www.cabinets.com/FORM/THE BOX - construction.asp

    The disadvantage of framed is you give up useable space in drawers/pullouts and ease of access on cabinets with doors. This is because the drawer or pullout has to clear the face frame that goes around the opening, so they are narrower from side to side and also shallower from top to bottom. In a small kitchen, the extra useable space from frameless could make a big difference. Estimates say frameless gives 10-15% more space, so 100 inches of framed would be 110 inches in frameless. To me, an extra 10 inches of drawer space is huge, especially when you don't have much to begin with !! Frameless cabinets with doors also offer easier access - there is no face frame creating a 1-2" obstruction on the left, right, and top inside the cabinet doors, also there is typically no center stile between double doors in frameless.

    For full overlay doors, there is very little difference in the looks of framed vs frameless. From an exterior appearance standpoint, these cabinets will basically look alike. Because the doors are full overlay, you don't see much or any of the frame and would have to open the door or drawer to see if the cabinet was framed or frameless. For inset doors, the framed cabinets would have a wider frame around the door than the frameless cabinet would.

    In the below two pics, the cabinet on the left is framed, and the one on the right is frameless. Looking only at the size of the opening, see how the drawer for frameless is wider from left to right and also has more open space from top to bottom. The useable drawer space is a couple inches more in each direction in the frameless. If they both had the same size full overlay exterior drawer face on them, they would look alike from the exterior. You would not be able to see the useable interior space until you opened the drawer. If they both had inset doors, the framed cabinets would have a much wider "frame" around the door and drawer.

    3. The third thing to consider is the cosmetics ... the door style you like, the drawer style (slab/flat/plain drawer front or drawer front that matches your door style), as well as wood species (cherry, oak, maple, etc), and stain or paint colors, glazing, distressing, finish/sheen, etc. (My cabinets are slab drawer, raised panel door, cherry with a chestnut stain, no additional finishes or glazes)
    This website shows just a few of the different door styles available ... http://www.cabinets.com/FORM/THE DOOR - style.asp

    4. The fourth thing to consider is stock cabinets vs semi-custom vs custom cabinet mfgs. Stock cabinets are available in 3" width increments (cabinets have to be width of 12", 15", 18", etc), filler strips fill in gaps between cabinets and wall or appliances, you have to choose from the heights and depths they offer, and there are very few options available, which can be pretty pricey to add on. Semi-custom cabinets vary by manufacturer in what customizations and options they offer, but they offer many more options than stock and allow sizing modifications. With custom cabinets, there should be no limitations including drawings for non-standard items, custom molding profiles, door styles, alternate wood species, custom stains & finishes, construction, accessories and options. (My cabinets are semi-custom)

    5. Finally, you want to consider the cabinet construction. Not that this is the least important ! It is one of the most important things. Pretty much all the other stuff is just the "pretty" stuff, LOL. This has to do with how well the cabinets are made - are the drawers stapled, dowelled, glued, dovetail ? What materials are the cabinets made of ? etc, etc.

    Drawer depths
    My bases are 24" deep bases and are all 20" useable interior from front to back. I'm pretty sure I could have (and definitely should have!) requested the drawers be an extra 1-2 inches deep to fill up the inside of the cabinet. I *think* the full extension glides would not have pulled out that extra inch or so, but I could have lived with that !! I could have fit my 8qt stock pots 2 deep front to back in the drawer instead of having to offset them slightly in the drawer if I had even an extra 1/2".

    Some people choose to have their base cabinets deeper from front to back for a number of different reasons, for example to make the front of the cabinet even with the front of the refrigerator so the standard fridge looks like a built in/counter depth. Or they may want a larger countertop work surface. This can be accomplished by using deeper base cabinets or by using standard 24" deep bases and installing them a couple inches out from the wall then covering the full space with the countertop material. If you want to do this and order deeper bases, be sure to specify the drawers are deeper from front to back as well ! Some mfgs will still only install the standard depth drawer even though the cabinet box is larger.
    (in pics below, my two standard $500 ea fridges look counter depth by recessing the wall behind the fridges only)

    Drawer Heights
    You can get a number of different drawer combinations ... for example two drawer could be 6-24 or 15-15, three drawer could be 6-12-12 or 6-9-15, four drawer could be 6-6-6-12 or 6-6-9-9, five drawer could be 6-6-6-6-6. These are just examples of size combinations ! I have even seen linens in 8 shallow pullouts behind doors in one base cabinet.

    The height of my drawer fronts do not line up all the way around the 4 sides of my kitchen, but do line up when you are looking at any one section at a time. I have 2 stacks together that are 6-12-12 separated by a stove. On the opposite corner of the kitchen are 2 stacks that are 6-6-9-9. What helps is that my stacks are caddy-cornered across the kitchen with appliances and base cabinets with doors separating them ... it would be very hard to look in any direction where you could see the "mis-matches" at one time. Some people have drawer stacks right next to each other where the drawer heights do not 'line up' and others have all the drawer bases in their entire kitchen with the exact same horizontal lines all the way around.

    My one advice ... find out the interior useable height of your drawers ahead of time. My Ultracraft cabinets are frameless so have more than framed would. They have undermount glides. On the 6-12-12 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 10.5, 9.5 (top to bottom on stack). Where this becomes an issue ... I wanted to store all of my pans, pots, etc vertical on their edges in the drawers so they wouldn't have to be stacked. The middle 10.5" drawers are tall enough for all of the casserole/baking dishes and pie tins, the roasting pan, and almost all of the pans, pots, and lids to stand on edge (the 9.5" drawers are not tall enough for a couple of those items to stand on edge). Both height drawers are definitely tall enough for all of the big pots (even the 8qt stockpot) that I own, except for the huge "canning" pot which is on the top shelf of one of my 15" deep uppers.

    Obviously, neither drawer is tall enough for my 12" pans/skillets to stand on edge (arrggh!). I have really been struggling with how to store these. Right now I have them flat in the bottom of the 9.5" height bottom drawer. Big waste of real estate !! I wish I had a shallower drawer I could put the big skillets in, like 6-6-6-12 so the frying pans were flat in drawers 2 & 3 and the pots were in the bottom drawer. Or even better(?!) if I had made my drawer heights 6-9-15 that would have given me 4, 7.5, 12.5 useable. My tallest 8qt pots are 7" tall, so all of them could have gone in the middle drawer and everything on edge could have gone in the bottom drawer (including the 12" skillets!). Google for images of drawers with pans on edge.

    On the other side of the kitchen with the 6-6-9-9 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 (top to bottom). I use the top 6" drawers all around the kitchen for silverware, spatulas and all the other kitchen gadgets, in-drawer knife block, foil wax paper cling wrap and plastic baggies, potholders, dish towels, etc. All of those things fit with no problem in these drawers including the ladle and the box grater. The 3rd drawer holds all of the tupperware and is the perfect height for this - 6 would have been too shallow and 12 would have been too deep. The bottom drawer is where we currently keep the paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

    (note: the interior drawer heights listed above vary slightly for the bottom two 12" drawers, the top two 6" drawers, and for the bottom two 9" drawers because of an interior cross support and space to clear the granite without scraping at the top)

    ALSO: the drawer face to interior useable space ratio will be DIFFERENT depending on if your drawer face is inset, partial overlay, or full overlay, and depending on if you have undermount glides or sidemount glides as catbuilder says above. For example on my 6-6-9-9 four drawer stack ... 1.5" counter + 6 + 6 + 9 + 9 + 4.5" toekick = 36" finished height. My useable heights are 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 = 22.5" total useable height. I lose 1.25-2.25" useable height for each drawer.
    Compare to quiltgirl above inset drawers ... 1.5" counter + 5.5 + 5.5 + 6.25 + 6.25 + 4.5 toekick (assumed) = 29.5". Are her cabinets shorter than mine ? No ! Add in between each of her drawers approx 1.25" face frame. She has undermount glides as well so her useable heights are 4, 4, 4.75, 4.75 = 17.5" total useable height. She only loses 1.5" useable height for each drawer face showing so it sounds like she is losing less, but she is also losing useable height in the face frame between each drawer which is why her total useable space is less.
    This is FINE !! Nothing at all against her cabinets. They will be beautiful. And she knew she was going to lose space with the inset when she chose them, but chose to do it because inset is the look she loves.

    Drawer widths
    The maximum cabinet width my manufacturer will do for drawer bases is 36" wide. I have 4 drawer bases at 21", 32", 17", and 36" wide. The interior useable width of these drawer bases are 18, 29, 14, 33 wide, so 3" less than the exterior width in each.

    Going around my kitchen ... first I have a 6" wide pullout broom closet. Next are two 30" wide fridge/top freezers. There are full depth cabinets above the fridges with an adjustable shelf. Then a 24" full height cabinet with pantry space at the top, MW, a single oven, and 6" high drawer under oven (4.5" useable height).

    The 21" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the left of my stove. Top drawer holds knife block, sharpener, scissors, trivets, potholders. 2nd drawer holds baking dishes on their edge. Bottom drawer is basically empty - it has one 8qt stockpot. If my drawer heights had been 6-9-15 instead (did I say grrrr?), I would have used the middle drawer as a bread drawer and stored the bakeware on edge in the bottom drawer.

    Next is the stove (Whirlpool GGE388LXS Electric Range w/Dbl ovens).

    The 32" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the right of the stove. Top drawer holds spatulas, spoons, ladles, wood spoons, basting brushes, meat thermometer, etc - things that are used at the stove. 2nd drawer holds frying pans, the smaller pots (1qt 2qt 3qt), and lids all on their edges. Bottom drawer holds 8qt pots. Also, the 12" skillets with lids, splatter screens, and griddle are all stacked in one stack flat in bottom of drawer, Grrrrrrr. If they were in the drawer with the other frying pans instead of taking up real estate here, that lone 8qt pot in my other cabinet would have been here with the other pots.

    Turn the corner and next is the first dishwasher and then a 36" sink base with Ticor S405D sink (70/30 double bowl). LOVE !!! <3
    Turn the corner and next is a 36" wide all door base cabinet (no upper drawer) with full depth adjustable shelves. I use this base cabinet for all my small appliances - blender, beaters, toaster, George Foreman, elec can opener, etc. Next to this base cabinet is the second dishwasher, followed by an 18" prep sink base with a Ticor S815 14x15x8 sink, and an empty space for an ice maker which is where the trash can currently resides.

    The 17" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 sits between the trash area/future ice maker and the peninsula and is on the opposite corner of the kitchen from the other drawer bases. The top drawer holds foil, wax paper, cling wrap, plastic baggies, chip clips, and restaurant menus. The 2nd drawer is our "junk" drawer and has some of everything including screwdrivers, clothespins, matches, flashlights, sewing kit, lint brush, etc. The 3rd drawer holds medicine, bandaids, alcohol, peroxide, as well as dish towels and plastic utensils from takeout restaurants in a tub. The bottom drawer is for "tupperware without partners" - bowls and lids with no matches (haha!).

    The 36" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 forms the peninsula. The top drawer holds all eating utensils (silverware and kid utensils), serving utensils, chopsticks, handheld can opener, wine opener in a strategically easy-to-access location : ), etc. The 2nd drawer holds all the other kitchen gadgets that aren't to the left and right of the stove like shrimp deveiners, graters, whisks, rolling pin, pizza rolling cutter-thingy, mashers, salad tongs, etc, etc. The 3rd drawer holds tupperware with their matching lids. The bottom drawer holds paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

    I don't like lazy susans or corner cabinets, so in the blind corner is a 26" all door base cabinet that opens out the backside to where the barstools sit.

    Handles
    We went with the same size handle for all of our drawers and also only one handle in the center for all of the drawers, no matter what the width of the drawer. They are 4" wide. We maybe would have used different widths, but the ones we liked in the finish we wanted did not come in a bunch of widths. The cabinet guy said they would look fine and they do. We have slab drawer fronts and the pulls are centered top to bottom and side to side on each drawer. We used round knobs on all doors.

    Drawer Organizers
    We ordered the drawer divider channels from Lee Valley so we could completely customize the interior of our drawers. They often have free shipping on orders over $40.
    www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=40168
    Google for images - lots of gardenweb members have used these.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=lee+valley+dividers+site:gardenweb.com& tbm=isch
    Take inventory of the things you will be storing in the drawers & doors. Measure it all and plan ahead where things will go. From the FAQs that Buehl put together ... http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg010523449014.html

    These are not my cabinets ... examples of pans stored vertically ...

    This is my kitchen ...
     photo 4-5-11-kitchen.jpg
    A note on our kitchen ... this home is a vacation rental oceanfront beach house with 8 bedrooms, 6 baths, that sleeps 26. Hence the 2 fridges, 3 ovens, 2 dishwashers. We had a large portion of our family here at Thanksgiving (32 people) and had like 7 or 8 women working to prepare the feast all at one time. Thank you Gardenweb for helping design a kitchen that WORKS !!!

    This post was edited by angela12345 on Sun, Feb 3, 13 at 14:36

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    clipped on: 06.08.2013 at 09:10 pm    last updated on: 06.08.2013 at 09:10 pm

    The lowdown on Super White

    posted by: karin_mt on 10.26.2012 at 07:01 pm in Kitchens Forum

    I am mostly a lurker here so far, and as our kitchen remodel plans take shape I have been enjoying seeing other people's progress and taking comfort that there is a strong community of kindred spirits who like to sweat all the glorious details of a kitchen!

    I'm a geologist so perusing the slab yard is always fun. Rarely do you get to see so many fascinating rocks all in one place.

    So today when I picked up my backsplash tile and put down a deposit for some small slabs (a separate story), I had a great time visiting various slabs with one of the fabricators. We talked about the minerals and textures that make some rocks winners in the kitchen, and others not so good.

    I asked to see some Super White, knowing there is a lack of clarity about what this rock really is. He gave me a piece to bring home and I did some diagnostics. Maybe this is common knowledge to you all, but here's the lowdown.

    The rock is dolomitic marble. It's not quartzite - it's not even close to quartzite in terms or hardness or resistance to acid.

    Dolomitic marble is a sibling to regular marble. Regular marble is made of calcite. Dolomite is made of calcite plus magnesium. Calcite is CaCO3 and dolomite is CaMgCO3. So this rock started out as the sedimentary rock called dolomite then was metamorphosed (heat + pressure) to cause the grains to recrystallize into dolomitic marble.

    My hunch is that this marble would be slightly more resistant to etching than regular calcite marble. But it is still just as soft as marble and has all the other requirements of caring for marble. It sure is a beautiful rock. But no way will it wear like granite or quartzite.

    The decorative stone industry has a whole different way of naming and classifying rocks than geologists do. (The first time someone showed me a back granite I protested loudly. There is no such thing as black granite!) But I am coming around to understand how the rocks are classified from the countertop point of view. So yes, the terms are contradictory and confusing, perhaps even deliberately so in some cases. But at least in this case I am certain of what the actual rock type is.

    I hope that's helpful or illuminating. And if you have questions about the real identity or geologic history of your countertop, I may be able to shed some light!

    Karin

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    clipped on: 06.03.2013 at 08:53 pm    last updated on: 06.03.2013 at 08:54 pm