Placement/ layout
1. Cans should be > 24 to 30 inches from the wall (on center). Most countertop spaces have upper cabinets (typically ~ 12" deep) + crown molding. The edge of the can may be spaced ~ 12" away from the edge of the crown molding (if present or cabinet if there is no crown molding) making the average distance between 26 to 30 inches.

2. Assuming the need for a fairly uniformly lit space @ 35 lumens per sq ft, the cans may have to be spaced closer together - between 3 - 4 ft apart (if all general lighting is provided by recessed lights). A fairly regular pattern is preferable to a random layout.

3. The actual layout of cans will be impacted by the location of ceiling joists, HVAC ducting, electrical wiring, plumbing, ceiling height, fire suppression sprinklers and other obstructions above the ceiling.

Dimming
The Cree LR6 series lamps do not dim as well as the later models (CR6, ...). ELV dimmers probably work better with LR6 than incandescent dimmers since the total load of the lights may not meet the minimum load requirement for the incandescent dimmer.

Dimmers such as the Lutron Diva CL dimmers work well. The max output is 95%.

Some Choices (in order of preference) and notes
Cree CR6 or ECO-575 (Home Depot branded CR6)
ECO4-575 (Home Depot branded Cree CR4 4" recessed light)
The above are only available in 2700k light color.

Cree LR6 series - including the LE6.

The Cree CR6 and LR6 lamps will not fit into 5" housings.

The standard LR6 behaves more like a surface mount than a recessed light as the LED emitters are close to the surface and the recess is shallow. Some may not like the amount of light spillage (standard LR6).

There is a higher output version of the LR6 that has a much deeper recess.

To prevent the Cree lamps from falling out, the 3 prongs have to be fully extended and a slight clockwise twist made when push installing. The slight clockwise twist will ensure that the prongs are fully extended.

The Cree lamps are currently the best available today (2012).

Sylvania RT-6, RT-4. The lights could be easier to install than Cree lamps as they utilize the torsion spring mechanism. However, the lights do not look as pleasant as the Cree lamps.

The Cree and Sylvania lamps do outperform 26W CFLs (and incandescents) in a standard recessed can in terms of light spread and output as the standard bulb in a can solution traps a significant amount of light. The Cree and Sylvania recessed lamp solutions referenced above have all the LED elements facing outwards so that the effective light output is higher.

The CRI (Color Rendition Index) of Cree and Sylvania recessed lamps > 80.

There is no warm up time required for Cree recessed lamps, unlike CFL light bulbs.

Most recessed lighting is used with flat ceilings. Sloped ceilings would require special solutions such as the LE6 or some other form of lighting (i.e. -non recessed lighting).

Some common objections to recessed can lights stem from
1. looks and performance of traditional can lights (standard bulb in a can)
2. swiss cheese effect from too many holes.

Steph- the flooring is from lowes the allen + roth brand, pretty inexpensive and it is individual planks. It looks nice the planks had a foam backing attached to them. I have a vinyl plank flooring in my basement and I love it. I do daycare and it is very nice looking and cleans up easily. I would not hesitate to put the vinyl floor on cement.

It sounds as though you have reached a good solution. More thoughts from my own experience:

The front edges of the cover panels are at the same plane (more or less) as the fronts of the drawers and doors, so there is some potential for edge dings. Also don't forget all the extra pieces you'll need, though you can probably get them on the fly from the lumber place as you go along. If you're using a range hood that's mounted under a cabinet, the upper cabinets on each side will need cover panels. That means that the sides of the cabinets flanking the range will also need cover panels to make all the widths line up down the run. (If you're using a standalone hood over a cooktop, obviously you don't need to worry about any of that.) Let's see, what else did I run into... don't forget light rail and top trim. If you are doing anything besides the Ikea standard, you will actually have an easier time getting custom trim to match if you are painting everything including doors yourself. To get our uppers to reach the ceiling, we used some kind of flat trim from Ikea (don't remember, probably light rail turned upside down) and then crown molding from the lumber supply mounted on top of that. Getting paint for the crown to match the Ikea trim took a couple of tries.

My feeling after doing an Ikea kitchen is that using everything from Ikea is much easier if you're going to do things the Ikea standard way -- all the holes are predrilled, all the finishes match, etc. But if you are going to customize trim etc, it's easier to cut down wood than thermofoil-covered MDF, so you will be saving yourself at least a little bit of annoyance there. The fellows who installed my kitchen were willing to cut down Ikea trim pieces the way I wanted, but it did complicate things for them. (For ex. I thought the Ikea light rail was too wide so they ripped all those long thermofoil-covered pieces down, which also meant they could no longer use the Ikea installation hardware so they had to drill new holes and use other hardware -- etc. They did not complain about any of this and yes they were wonderful.)

Re. the DIY paint matching the professional paint -- I think Scherr's uses Sherwin-Williams colors, so you should have no trouble getting a color match. However, the sheen might be different, so you might want to have a chat with the people at SW to see what they suggest you use. Maybe even paint a test board (comparing to a sample door if you can) to make sure it'll be close enough to suit you. The crown I painted is a little bit glossier than my doors but not enough to bother me (it is crown molding after all).

1. Recess in wall behind range
2. Spice rack on end of island...open? or glass doors?

Kompy

The fixture over the dining table is an old-fashioned linen and wire Chinese lantern which was black wire but i painted it all antique gold. (It took me about three weeks to paint.) I then found a fixture , ditched the shade and rigged up this shade.

Here is a pic of the pass-thru from the other side. It was a great solution for us...I get the light from the breakfast windows, plus the visual connection with that space.

The dark lowers seems to ground the kitchen and not make the uppers look top heavy. It also seems like it would be easier to clean and disguise dirt if the lowers were dark wood. It could be a compromise point for my partner and I as he really wanted stained and I wanted white paint.

I tend to like it most when the counters are light/white. I suppose one has to be careful with the counter/backsplash applications with these kitchens?

In any case, I'm fishing for conversation and my bait is eye candy.

These first are IKEA kitchens:

(Notice the crazy/creative way that upper over the peninsula was wrapped around that beam via the crown)

Here's Bossanova's black and white carriage kitchen:

And a prior GW thread on this topic for more eye candy:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0623550010553.html

DETAILS:
Cabinets: Eudora Frameless
Island countertop: White Macaubus Quartzite
Perimeter countertop: Leathered Absolute Black Granite
Sink: Kohler Riverby Cast Iron
Faucet: Moen Woodmere in Stainless
Hardware on solid doors/drawers: Amerock Highland Ridge in polished nickel
Glass knobs and Bin Pulls in polished nickel: Van Dyke's
Range & Dishwasher: Thermador
Refrigerator: Kitchenaid Pro
Refrigerator Drawers: Electrolux
Sharp Microwave Drawer

Close up of the tile. It's hard to get an accurate color since it's so glossy. It's more blue/green than portrayed in pics:

I was standing on a chair when I took this. I feel like it makes the dining table look like toy furniture! Ha!

Behold...the unfinished bar and the fan with no blades. We live in the deep south...no judging the fan! Behind those closed doors lies my DH's very unfinished man cave.

And you'd know that the day after I took these, my new sofa cushion inserts came in. It's all fluffy and new looking again. Oh well!

The Pantry is actually the same color as the entry you see right past the range wall in the kitchen (BM Gray Wisp). But I didn't use a flash so it looks funky here:

Details:

Cabinets : Omega (mix between dynasty and custom) (island stain - truffle)
Range : 48 Wolf AG
Countertops: Kashmire White Granite
Fridge: 48 Subzero
Dishwasher : Kitchen Aid
Micro: 27' Monogram advantium
Floor: Porcelain tile (of hand I don't remember the name)
Hood: Rangcraft

Please go to the link below for more pics.
I came across this kitchen while googling "dish knobs" because originally, that's what I wanted in my kitchen.

(Contractor still needs to finish the backsplash, trimming out the cabinets (the walls and floor were a nightmare for him), crown moulding, replacing the window, door and baseboard moulding, knobs/pulls, painting and touch up, and the warming drawer (which I've decided to relocate the make use of the blind cabinet next to the dishwasher with the drawer accessible from the "hallway" area)).

Before:

During:

After:

Stay tuned until Thursday night.

Although we moved no walls, it ended up being a bigger project then we expected as the old tile floor went through our foyer, powder room and laundry room. Also didn't have correct sub-flooring, and we wanted to move some of the appliances around, etc. The reason the it is only 98.627% completed, is we still have 1.373% left to do, such as glass shelves in glass front doors so in cabinet lighting can shine all the way through, etc.

Details:

Cabinets - Inset Shiloh Homestead painted MB Softwhite, Island Maple stained Espresso
Flooring - Tile Fashion Coffee 12 x 24
Countertops - Ceasarstone Raven, Ceasarstone Misty Carrera - Mitred Edge
Main Sink - Franke 33" SS Apron - FHX710-33S
Main Faucet - Generic Costco Brand
Prep Sink - Elkay - ELU1618
Prep Faucet - Danze Como Pulldown
Refrigerator - JennAir CD FD - JFC2089HES
Ovens - Electrolux - EW30EW65GS
Warming Drawer - Electrolux - EW30WD55GS
Microwave - Electrolux - EL27MO45GS
Cooktop - DCS 36" Drop-in - CTD-365
Hood - Bosch - DKE9365AUC
Beverage Center - GE Monogram - ZDBC240NBS
Dishwasher - Bosch
Backsplash - White Glass subway tile from theglassmosiacoutlet.com
Backsplash - Stainless Steel 1x2 tiles
Pulls - TopKnobs - Princetonian
Paint - BM 1542 Himalayan Trek

Before:

After:

Sink Area:

Backsplash:

Island:

Island - Backside:

Pantry Area - Closed:

Pantry - Open:

Lazy Suzan - Corner Pullout:

A big thank you to everyone who gave such great advice over the past few months. If anyone has any questions on what we like /dislike please let us know.

Your description of 50's ranch with simple cottage and a tad modern reminded me of firsthouse_mp:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0614293210436.html

That's not necessarily a look you want, but you can see how something like that would work.

I think you're pretty close on design. You really want that pantry, so go for the adorable smaller fridge (provided it will give you enough storage). I'd save the final layout decisions until you pick a cabinet company and know your constraints from them. Go to kitchen showrooms and see what they offer. If you don't see anything that grabs you investigate mail order or local custom builders.

Focus on what is most important to you. For me, it was materials that would last. Black leathered granite will stand the test of time. Painted cabinets can be touched up and repainted. A wood floor can be refinished. To choose the particulars I decided I had to have a blue-green-gray wall color so I picked what would go best with that. For you it might be a tile that you swoon over. Choose your favorite one or three and see what you can actually find in your area. Then think about what cabinets you might put with them.

I've found my painted cabinets to be very cleanable. Maybe moreso than my old wood cabinets. If white is "out" or you want something different, look at two shades of gray. A lighter gray will pretend to be white without being white. I love these colors (although I know the style isn't what you'd want):

That wall cabinet is actually a light gray, but it sure looks white in the light. I'm pretty sure that's a honed dark gray granite, something like steel grey, which is inexpensive. Even a very inexpensive granite like uba tuba looks pretty special when it is honed or leathered.

Hope this helps!

We are finally finished with our kitchen remodel of our 1889 home. I have been a daily (truthfully, sometimes HOURLY) lurker and sporadic poster for almost two years. There is NO WAY I could have planned this remodel without the help of GW--We were living in China for over 5 years and I had to do all of my planning from there. This meant NO MAGAZINES, nor could I visit showrooms and see anything in person. Every time I had a question, I seemed to be able to find a thread about it. Not to mention all of the inspirational photos!!! I was so afraid of missing an important tidbit! (We were 13 hours ahead there, so I could easily miss a thread as it fell off onto pages two, three, four...)

Anyway, many thanks to all of the great TKO people who contribute to this forum.

Photos first! Details at the end. (o:

pass-thru detail

cabinetry--local custom painted in BM Bone White oil-based enamel
walls-- BM Ballet White
counters--Zodiaq quartz Mystic Black (kind of a charcoal color)
pulls--Amerock Revitalize in Burnished Bronze
sink--Ticor zero-radius SS508
faucet--Kohler Vinnata in Vibrant Polished Nickel
range-36" Bertazzoni Heritage Series in Anthracite
hood- Vent-A-Hood NPH9-136
backsplash- 3" hexagonal Calcatta marble
pendants--Hinckley Knickerbocker (these are on clearance all over for a song right now...)
windows--Marvin double-hung cottage style

forum

My house was built in 1990 and the only thing we had done in the thirteen years we lived here was paint the cabinets white. It feels really good to have my kitchen finished!

Refrigerator was moved to other side of kitchen where pantry closet used to be. New casement windows were put in so that when you walk in the door you see trees in the backyard.

First pictures are of the old kitchen.

Realized I didn't put in picture so you could see large pulls that I used on pantry drawers and pot and pan drawers to right of stove.

Breezygirl- That is what I forgot! Pendant lights are by Flambeau. They are the Soho pendants. Chandelier is the Tassel Arm.

Before: One wall of cabs and appliances (everything was falling apart) left from the prior owner and one wall of IKEA shelves/storage/counter that I designed and lived with for 4 years as we saved for our renovation. Although I liked the accessibility of the open design on the IKEA wall (and I loved the SimpleHuman trash can and recycling can), the cleaning was difficult (thankfully, my brother-in-law doesn�t mind the cleaning and that entire wall is now in his new apartment). I also had very little counter space with this old plan. I vowed that my new kitchen would have very little open wall space and next to nothing on the counters. We would also have efficient appliances (including a DW � after 12 years of hand washing) that didn�t need to be velcroed together.

After: HOORAY!

42" wall cabs: right to the ceiling; the extra space and the look are just what we wanted

I put an open shelf next to the window to keep my fruit (bottom shelves) & garlic, onions (top shelves) off the counter and to let in more light from our awkward window.

All drawer base cabs except for 30" sink, 15" trash & 9" pantry: drawers rock and have changed my life for the better. Love the pegs and double-stacked utensil storage.

Trash/Recycling: I finally figured out how to get 4 separate spaces. I had my husband cut one of the pull-out cans to fit my compost pail; one of favorite elements. Under the sink is glass/plastic on the left, paper on the right.

Spice drawer: I like my spices are right in front of me (literally) as I chop and prep. In my old kitchen, they took up counter space and were hard to clean.

Tall/Skinny Fridge: everyone should have one. It�s only been a week, but I can�t seem to fill it! I love that I can see everything.

Tall/Skinny pantry: I opted for this instead of a larger fridge. Love the storage and ease of accessibility. Still have yet to fill it.

Range/Skinny spice drawers: I am a huge Berta Fan! The spice drawers are skinny and long: perfect for cooking utensils, knife sharpeners, grill supplies, etc.

18" DW/Deep Sink/Pull-out Faucet/Sink Storage Tilt: 18" is perfect for our family of three. The sink/faucet/tilt storage: highly recommend.

Green: a color that we love and have all over our home. The pictures don�t do the colors justice (especially the counter which looks rather greyish in these photos). And in case you�re wondering, the textured porcelain tile floor feels amazing � not like other hard/cold tile that I have read about on GW (apologies for the renovation dust that is still on the floor).

Details:

Size: 8.75� long x 6.75� wide x 8� high
Design: me (inspired by the slate fish etchings mounted on tent stakes, by the fridge, that my husband made in a printmaking class before I met him)
Timeframe: Due to a cracked cabinet (which Kraftmaid replaced � no questions asked � very easy to work with), our 3-week renovation turned into 5 weeks, but well worth it. Our contractor was amazing. The only structural change we made was to the kitchen entryway.
Cabinets: Kraftmaid � Maple � Hayward style, Honey Spice stain
Countertop: Rosemary Caesarstone (see my other GW post on this topic � thanks to GW I was able to find this recently discontinued stone)
Range: 30" SS Bertazzoni Professional Series X304GGVX
Refrigerator: 24" (80" height) SS Liebherr CS1311
Dishwasher: 18" SS Bosch SPX5ES55UC
OTR Microwave: 30" SS LG LMV2015ST
Floor: Daltile Continental Slate (porcelain tile) � Brazilian Green
Tile: American Olean - Legacy Glass � Celedon (ordered from Artwalk Tile � GW tip � thank you!)
Knobs & Pulls: Satin Nickel � 1" diameter knobs (K-12), 4" pulls (BN-3) - Horton Brasses (another GW tip � thank you!)
Sink: 23"SS Elkay Lustertone ELU2115
Faucet: SS Grohe Concetto Pull-Down 32 665
Track Light: Satin Nickel - Eurofase TK-5VTX3-34 Vortex 5-Light
UC Lighting: Super Bright LED strips

I've always liked this PB DR very much. The walls are BM Weimaraner:

Instead of light rail, you can cover the bottom of the cabinets with the 24x80" cover panels because these are 1/2" thick, and the light rail is over 1" thick. Have the cover panel extend past the front of the box to just shy of the door front, and leave a space in the back to mount LED strip lighting, or other low profile lighting to be mounted directly on the cabinet box, not on the cover panel (i.e. "recess" the lighting so it does not protrude much) for under cabinet lighting.

You can also plan for 3/4" countertop material instead of the usual almost 1.5" material. The typical countertop height comes to about 36" with the usual 3cm tops, you can do just over 35" and still be comfortable.

another suggestion is if there is a subfloor under your current floor, you can strip it down before laying something over it.

most appliances will fit under 15", and good lighting will make it feel bigger.

btw, I figured out that my estimates for the round table seating are off by 12". Each bench area is 24" deep with about 6" overlap of table over seating. So that bench span needs to be 72" across, not 60". If you like that plan, you'll need to take 12" from the left side, which basically means losing that cab there since you'd only have 6" left, or you can take 6" from each side, which would give you a 27" cab next to the DW and a 12" cab on the other side. What would be very cool is if you could do something like this for seating in that corner:

Hopefully your contractor and cab maker can help you figure this out. Just be sure to watch your clearances, especially around the table, pantry and fridge, so that you have enough room to move about and work.

Here are a few NKBA recommendations for minimums to help you.
36" for squeeze behind room and 44" for walk past room for aisles with seating. If there are major appliances in the area, more space is better for main paths.
42" aisles for 1-cook kitchens and 48" for 2-cook kitchens.
Allow 24" of width for each diner. 18" leg room for table height seating. The 36" round table is snug, more cafe seating or cocktail seating, than dining but it's more sociable to be looking at each other than sitting in a row.
Allow extra length and width if you have seating on adjacent sides. Two people at the corner can't share the same space.

You can cheat a bit on a few of the minimums. We have 41" between table and island (no seating) for a main aisle in our kitchen and it works for us. Several GWers have had narrower aisles without problems. Rhome410 has 36" between her rangetop and island with a family of 10 and it works for them. I wouldn't, however, want to go less than the 24" seating width. Don't assume you can design with less than minimums without doing a mock-up of the space and making sure it will work, that you have enough room to move about, open cab doors & drawers, fridge doors, etc, without cursing and wishing you had just a few more inches.

Good luck and please keep us posted!

So here are bits and pieces of info I've pulled together from other places.

From a KF thread last year, quoting a Fine Homebuilding article on their website:
In case anyone else is interested, they recommend a 3-5 degree angle on the back and 18-22" seat.

From a 2008 entry at The Kitchen Designer blog:
The better banquette, taking its place, is about comfort!

Start with a much shorter cabinet height, approximately 14-15" or so. Typically, a standard cabinet height for a banquette is 18" high. Then, you have a 2" cushion. Out with the 2" cushion! What is far better is a 4-5" cushion. Make the cushions like a sofa cushion....comfortable, yet supportive. The word I use repeatedly is "cushy."

From another post on KF, referencing the book 'more not so big solutions for your home' has measurements and useful images for building booths. They recommend an overlap of 4-5" between seat and table. (I designed for 6" so adjust the design as needed. This will depend on how deep your bench is, too. You don't want to be seated too far away from the table nor do you want to be squished up tight to it either. A mock-up might help you figure this out.)

The above book would be a good resource for you so that you, your contractor and cab maker design a banquette area that is comfortable for you.

The top diagrams show what edging on 3cm stone looks like. The stone itself is solid, so once it's edged, it merely rests on top of the cabinet boxes, no problem.

When you have a laminated edge, like in the lower diagrams, you have an issue because the edge is thicker than the body. If you just put that top onto a cabinet, as is, then the built up portion hangs over the front portion of the cabinet frame. As I said, with frameless cabinets, you wouldn't even be able to open the drawers if it were installed like that. On framed cabinets, you can get away with installing it like that, because you have a frame before the drawer starts. That doesn't mean that is the correct way to install the counter. It's just that it won't cause any access issues. It still looks wrong, and IS wrong.

The correct way to install counters with built up edges is to first place plywood over the cabinet box that is the depth of the "hangdown" portion of the built up edge (usually 3/4".) That way, the counters install with their lower edge level with the top of the cabinet box, just as 3cm stone does.

Your installer and GC did not perform this step. Your counter is installed incorrectly. In addition, you have issues with blow outs, poor color matching epoxy, and an installer who seems to be feeling his way through the install like it's his first time.

It isn't an acceptable situation, and your GC should be all over the counter installer to correct this for you. He IS the GC, and it's ultimately his responsibility to handle issues like this---especially when the error was allowed to occur because of his ignorance. He should be horribly embarrassed and be assuring you that he will correct the issue, and thanks to you will never make that mistake again.

Stick to your guns and demand a redo and let him do his job of sourcing where to find the marble and a new fabricator. It's what you're paying him to do. He needs to step up and do his job. Or he needs to be discharged for cause.

I kept leaning towards the White Linen because it was a little less yellowish.

HOWEVER....

I wanted to see what Maria Killam's opinion on White Linen was. I finally "heard" what I've read before....

"if you don't have enough light streaming in your house for most parts of the day, then white is not the best idea. What will happen instead is your walls will look gray and dingy because the shadows all on their own will simply cause your white walls to appear gray. So what do you do instead? Well, if you still want a neutral, you intentionally choose a gray that is dark enough so that it looks. . . gray not dingy. "

So I looked at the samples again. The side that was on the shadow side of the lamp looked dingy. There is no curtain on the window right now, and the shade is all the way up! It is bright and sunny out. I can't do white in this room! I went back and looked at my inspiration photo. (I'll post it again, just in case you didn't see it before) That room has 2 windows, at least. (on different sides of the room) It has plenty of light. I will be putting this back in my inspiration folder because now I know so much more, and maybe in the "next" house I'll do it.

Thanks to all for your input and help. I do love these 2 colors and I hope that you don't think your efforts to help were wasted on me. I have learned so much!

I think I'm going with Weimeramer. It looks good, will go with the rocks, and it think it will make the mbr look great.