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RE: are frameless cabinets better for a small kitchen? (Follow-Up #26)

posted by: angela12345 on 09.24.2012 at 10:18 am in Kitchens Forum

The OP is looking at full overlay Shaker style doors and slab drawers.

For full overlay, there is very little difference in the looks of framed vs frameless. From an exterior appearance standpoint, these cabinets will basically look alike. Because the doors are full overlay, you don't see much or any of the frame and would normally have to open the door to see if the cabinet was framed or frameless.

Munchlady, framed vs frameless refers to the construction of the box, not the style of the door/drawer or the amount of overlay. This link explains the difference in framed and frameless ... BOX - construction.asp
This illustrates some different door styles available ... DOOR - style.asp
And this illustrates overlay (how much door vs how much cabinet box you see) ...

In the above two pics, the cabinet on the left is framed, and the one on the right is frameless. Looking only at the size of the opening, see how the drawer for frameless is wider from left to right and also has more open space from top to bottom. The useable drawer space is more in the frameless. If they both had the same size full overlay exterior drawer face on them, they would look alike. You would not be able to see the useable interior space until you opened the drawer.

In a small kitchen, the extra useable space from frameless could make a big difference. Estimates say frameless gives 10-15% more space, so 100 inches of framed would be 110 inches in frameless. To me, an extra 10 inches of drawer space is huge, especially when you don't have much to begin with !!

You can maximize your storage space in a small kitchen by making your upper cabinets a little deeper. I have some upper cabinets in my kitchen that are 12" deep and others that are 15" deep. There are 3 items that will not fit in my 12" deep uppers so I am forced to keep them in the 15" deep uppers, even though the 12" cabinets are a more convenient location for those items. Also, my iced tea glasses will only fit 3 deep in the 12" cabinets, but will fit 4 deep in the 15" cabinets. Over your fridge, have extra deep cabinets. The front of my fridge is even with the edge of my base cabinets and the I made the uppers over it come out as deep as the fridge.

Another way to maximize storage space in a small kitchen is to have mostly drawers with full extension glides for your lower cabinets. With pots & pans, bakeware, and other items in drawers, you can pull out the drawer and have full access to all of the items, even the stuff in the back. If you store them vertical on their edge it makes the storage even more convenient. Be sure though, that the storage will fit the items you plan to put in there. My bottom drawers are not quite deep enough for my 12" skillets and griddle to be stored vertically. All of my other pots & pans do fit in them. Permanent built in dividers like below left may limit the items that can be stored there. I have waited until my cabinets were in my kitchen to put in dividers to fit my stuff. My dividers will be able to be moved/adjusted if needed.,43722,43743

Other ideas for vertical storage ...

(Sorry!!! I went crazy with the pictures, LOL)


fabulous storage configurations for cabinets!! READ this!!! Look at pics!!!
clipped on: 09.30.2012 at 09:26 pm    last updated on: 09.30.2012 at 09:27 pm

RE: Cabinet quotes (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: GreenDesigns on 10.06.2011 at 11:02 am in Kitchens Forum

Transparancy goes both ways. :) You would be much more successful in cabinet shopping if YOU were more transparent with your budget numbers. No KD likes losing a sale and no one likes taking the time to work up a quote for someone who will just walk down the street to someone else if their mystery number in their head isn't met.

So, what is your budget? What type of look are you trying to achieve? What are your "musts, wants, and would be nice to haves"? There are dozens more questions that are all an important part of getting a good fit with a cabinet line, but focusing soley on price doesn't get you there. Walking into a showroom and asking for a quote is the absolute worst possible way of selecting cabinets! You're not buying a car. A car is super simple compared to a cabinet quote! It's more like you are spec'ing out a complete house, and if you just go around asking for a 3000 square foot brick house, you're going to be super frustrated at the responses. You either have to 100% speak the language and ask for a quote by nomenclature, with the 47 pages of technospeak in a document, or you have to be a lot more general about the end product first, and then price third or fourth. You WILL end up with those 47 pages of documents from the cabinets company when you purchase your cabinets.

To have a successful renovation, you have to have a lot more give and take. Choose a pro who represents a wide variety of lines and whom you feel comfortable with. If you do that first and then worry about getting a match with your secret number, you are far more likely to get the kitchen that is in your head to exist in your space and reach your budget goals.

After all, we all want a sale. But we also want a happy customer! And you are setting yourself up to be an unhappy customer, if you aren't already there.


clipped on: 09.30.2012 at 10:05 am    last updated on: 09.30.2012 at 10:06 am

RE: Cabinet quotes (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: mydreamhome on 10.05.2011 at 10:24 pm in Kitchens Forum

Don't know if you can get them in NY, but you may want to try Marsh Cabinets out of High Point, NC. They gave us the best breakdown I've seen. The pricing was done pretty much by room (kitchen price, master bath price, kid bath 1, kid bath 2, laundry, etc) with specifics and drawings. Any specialty cabinets (i.e. cubbies, decorative butler's pantry, etc) were specced out separately as well. They also included granite/quartz/corian as a separate line item. If DH hadn't been so set on using the builder's subs as much as possible, we would have gone with Marsh and in the end desperately wish we had gone with them as we would have saved $5,000+, would have saved ourselves many headaches/sleepless nights/indigestion/nausea & and would have had an itemized bill vs. a descriptive all incusive paragraph that tells you what you're getting without really telling you what you're getting for your $$$.


clipped on: 09.30.2012 at 09:47 am    last updated on: 09.30.2012 at 09:47 am

RE: Cabinet quotes (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: pence on 10.05.2011 at 10:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

its a little more complicated than that. I bought my cabinets through Crown point. Each cabinets price was listed but then it might have upcharges for each thing on that cabinet listed below like soft closure, flush end, extended stile, finished interior but a lot of it is nomenclature for his company and i had to spend an hour on the phone with the salesman to find out what each line meant, then you have lines for scribe and shoe and all the other extras. I'm very detailed and I really appreciated him doing that but I also spent $30,000 with him. I can totally see why an hourly employee from Home depot wouldnt want to do that plus it may be aggainst company policy, plus their printouts may not be suited for the public, maybe her commission is listed right there on the bottom.


clipped on: 09.30.2012 at 09:46 am    last updated on: 09.30.2012 at 09:47 am

RE: Home Depot or Lowes? Or Ikea??? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: rmtdoug on 06.05.2012 at 04:26 pm in Kitchens Forum

I just went to Ikea this past Saturday to check out their cabinets. I was most impressed, and this is coming from someone with a heavy woodworking and building background and I've dealt with HD and Lowes many times. I will definitely be buying Ikea basic frames and drawers next year when we start on our kitchen and I will do the doors and drawer fronts myself.

A piece of advice is don't worry about particle board vs plywood construction for the frames. Once the cabinets are screwed into place and secure, there is very little difference. Think over the years how many times your cabinet frames were stressed in any way once installed? Put your money into the faces and hardware instead. I loved the Ikea drawers. They are metal sides with Blum soft-close hinges; a brilliant design.

If you can use a screwdriver, hammer, and level fairly competently, I'm sure you can install Ikea cabinets. There really is not much to it. Concentrate on the layout, getting everything level and plumb, and you will be halfway there. A reservoir-based water level will help immensely in laying out your kitchen if you don't have access to a transit.


you buy the ikea boxes but doors from somewhere else. It's somewhere on GW where to buy the fronts/doors. Problem is that the frameless boxes are faced with white so you have to live with that altho you can get some iron-on plasticy stuff that I saw referred to on GW in early summer on IKEA search on cupboards. Maybe it's on the Ikea web site.
clipped on: 09.30.2012 at 09:29 am    last updated on: 09.30.2012 at 09:31 am

RE: Home Depot or Lowes? Or Ikea??? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: jerzeegirl on 06.05.2012 at 02:33 pm in Kitchens Forum

I used Lowe's on my last kitchen remodel and it was a great experience. I'd use them again in a NY minute if only they carried frameless cabinets.


LOWE"S doesn't carry frameless cabinets.
clipped on: 09.30.2012 at 09:26 am    last updated on: 09.30.2012 at 09:26 am