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RE: Granite Saga Continues (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: azstoneconsulting on 07.06.2011 at 12:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

Can you post pics of the edges and the discoloration that you are describing?

This sounds (to me) like it could possibly be a resining issue, but pics will help to discern what is and is not......

Not trying to be "self promoting" here, but after 26 years as a Fabricator, I have seen stuff like this a lot (I do Forensic Inspections and reviews for folks all over the world) - and this sounds to me like it could be a "resin with tint/stain" issue - but your pics should help to confirm or quash my initial suspicions.......

I'll be watching for your pics



clipped on: 05.10.2014 at 12:45 pm    last updated on: 05.10.2014 at 12:46 pm

RE: It's April 2014 - Part II1, how is your build? (Follow-Up #149)

posted by: Autumn.4 on 04.28.2014 at 10:23 pm in Building a Home Forum

jdez or shall I call you Jae? :) -are you finished insulating? What is next in your DIY world? So the blasted soffit! Argh! The main hugemongous support beam goes right through there and that is why there is a soffit. Who puts soffits in these days, everyone is busy taking them OUT! Boo! So I *think* the crown will be in front of it and up to it so you won't see a big gap. I hope to find out when I get home from work tomorrow. See, see I told ya! It IS Seattle Mist and it does look gray in the kitchen. Crazy color but I do really love it reading both ways. Island stain is gray but the wood reads through yet. It's called silas and it has a black glaze over it - Shiloh cabinetry. Good grief I hope the floors are life proof but they are wood so they will patina. They are hickory and more rustic with the hand scraping, etc. which I hope will help hide all that 2 boys and a dog have to offer. With it being so open I didn't want a huge transition in flooring so we kept the living/dining/kitchen all wood. So yes, to accommodate the MW and the fridge (or keep it from sticking way out) we pulled those base cabs on the fridge wall forward 6" and the uppers there are 18 or 19" deep, I already can't remember. Doh. Anyhow, with it being so open I didn't want 6" of the side of the fridge hanging out. Bonus that the counter will also be deeper there and that is where I anticipate the toaster and coffee pot to live as well as it being lunch making station. They should all be easily tucked out of view too. I have a very love HATE relationship with FB myself and typically only get on there when prompted by someone else. I have worked in purchasing or materials besides a brief 11 year stint in healthcare when we started a family. Healthcare because they offer part time work and quite a variety of it. So now my kiddos are older and I am back in Purchasing but not in automotive or manufacturing anymore. Breath of fresh air to do something different but still in purchasing. I like numbers and I like variety. I too hope it's happy and long lasting as I am not a job hopper kinda girl. Thanks for not asking, lol. I don't mind. ;)

Michelle-thank you. They are pre-finished solid hickory. They had 2 stains and we picked the lighter one (tobacco I think they call it), the other is more a java really deep color. We thought it would show too much dust so we stuck with this one and I like it. It also kind of grounds it as the fireplace and mantle were looking a little formal to me and I think the floor adds back some casual feel. We are not formal people at all.

So mini-rant - dh is adamant about wanting cup pulls. 1 - I don't like them as I like to reach from the top not the bottom and 2 - what? why on earth does he care about the pulls and 3 - who uses the kitchen and not just to get a glass for a drink. Pfft. Shaking head. I hope he doesn't mind me going out to the barn when he's building it and insisting on flower boxes or something........turkey. Unfortunately for him I am just as adamant about NOT wanting them. I get his point, they would look nice and I get it he likes the look but they'd drive me nuts to use so it's a no go.


clipped on: 04.28.2014 at 11:44 pm    last updated on: 04.28.2014 at 11:44 pm

Stone Information and Advice (& Checklists)

posted by: buehl on 04.14.2008 at 02:56 am in Kitchens Forum

First off, I want to give a big thank-you to StoneGirl, Kevin, Joshua, Mimi, and others (past and current) on this forum who have given us many words of wisdom concerning stone countertops.

I've tried to compile everything I saved over the past 8 months that I've been on this Forum. Most of it was taken from a write-up by StoneGirl (Natural stone primer/granite 101); other threads and sources were used as well.

So...if the experts could review the information I've compiled below and send me comments (here or via email), I will talk to StarPooh about getting this on the FAQ.

Stone Information, Advice, and Checklists:

In an industry that has no set standards, there are many unscrupulous people trying to palm themselves off as fabricators. There are also a number of people with odd agendas trying to spread ill rumors about natural stone and propagate some very confusing and contradictory information. This is my small attempt at shedding a little light on the subject.

Slab Selection:

On the selection of the actual stone slabs - When you go to the slab yard to choose slabs for your kitchen, there are a few things you need to take note of:

  • Surface finish: The finish - be it polished, honed, flamed antiqued, or brushed, should be even. There should be no spots that have obvious machine marks, scratches, or other man made marks. You can judge by the crystal and vein pattern of the stone if the marks you see are man-made or naturally occurring. It is true that not all minerals will finish evenly and if you look at an angle on a polished slab with a larger crystal pattern, you can clearly see this. Tropic Brown would be a good example here. The black spots will not polish near as shiny as the brown ones and this will be very obvious on an unresined slab when looking at an acute angle against the light. The black specks will show as duller marks. The slab will feel smooth and appear shiny if seen from above, though. This effect will not be as pronounced on a resined slab.

    Bottom line when judging the quality of a surface finish: Look for unnatural appearing marks. If there are any on the face of the slab, it is not desirable. They might well be on the extreme edges, but this is normal and a result of the slab manufacturing process.

  • Mesh backing: Some slabs have a mesh backing. This was done at the plant where the slabs were finished. This backing adds support to brittle materials or materials with excessive veining or fissures. A number of exotic stones will have this. This does not necessarily make the material one of inferior quality, though. Quite often, these slabs will require special care in fabrication and transport, so be prepared for the fabricator to charge accordingly. If you are unsure about the slabs, ask your fabricator what his opinion of the material is.

  • Cracks and fissures: Yes - some slabs might have them. One could have quite the discussion on whether that line on the slab could be one or the other, so I'll try to explain it a little.

    • Fissures are naturally occurring features in stone. They will appear as little lines in the surface of the slabs (very visible in a material like Verde Peacock) and could even be of a different color than the majority of the stone (think of those crazed white lines sometimes appearing in Antique Brown). Sometimes they could be fused like in Antique Brown and other times they could be open, as is the case in the Verde Peacock example. They could often also go right through the body of the slab like in Crema Marfil, for instance. If you look at the light reflection across a fissure, you will never see a break - i.e., there will be no change in the plane on either side of a fissure.

    • A crack on the other hand is a problem... If you look at the slab at an oblique angle in the light, you will note the reflection of the shine on the surface of the stone. A crack will appear as a definite line through the reflection and the reflection will have a different appearance on either side of the line - there will be a break in the plane. Reject slabs like this. One could still work around fissures. Cracks are a whole other can of worms.

    • Resined slabs: The resin gets applied prior to the slabs being polished. Most of the resin then gets ground off in the polishing process. You should not be able to see just by looking at the surface of a slab whether it was resined or not. If you look at the rough sides of the slab, though, you will see some drippy shiny marks, almost like varnish drips. This should be the only indication that the slab is resined. There should never be a film or layer on the face of the stone. With extremely porous stones, the resining will alleviate, but not totally eliminate absorption issues and sealer could still be required. Lady's dream is an example. This material is always resined, but still absorbs liquids and requires sealer.

    • Test the material you have selected for absorption issues regardless - it is always best to know what your stone is capable of and to be prepared for any issues that might arise. Some stones indeed do not require sealer - be they resined or not. Baltic Brown would be an example here. It will not absorb one iota of anything, but it is still resined to eliminate a flaking issue.

Tests (especially for Absolute Black) (using a sample of YOUR slab):

  • To verify you have true AB and not dyed: Clean with denatured alcohol and rub marble polishing powder on the face. (Get denatured alcohol at Home Depot in the paint department)

  • Lemon Juice or better yet some Muratic Acid: will quickly show if the stone has alot of calcium content and will end up getting etched. This is usually chinese stone, not indian.

  • Acetone: The Dying usually is done on the same chinese stone. like the others said, acetone on a rag will reveal any dye that has been applied

  • Chips: Using something very hard & metal�hit the granite sharply & hard on edges to see if it chips, breaks, or cracks


  • Before the templaters get there...
    • Make sure you have a pretty good idea of your faucet layout--where you want the holes drilled for all the fixtures and do a test mock up to make sure you have accounted for sufficient clearances between each fixture.

    • Be sure you test your faucet for clearances not just between each fixture, but also between the faucet and the wall behind the faucet (if there is one). You need to be sure the handle will function properly.

    • Make sure that the cabinets are totally level (not out by more than 1/8") before the counter installers come in.

    • Check how close they should come to a stove and make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter.

    • Make sure they have the sink/faucet templates to work from.

    • Make sure have your garbage disposal air switch on hand or know the diameter

  • If you are not putting in a backsplash, tell them

  • Double check the template. Make sure that the measurements are reasonable. Measure the opening for the range.

  • Seam Placement: Yet another kettle of fish (or can of worms, depending on how you look at it, I guess!) Seam placement is ultimately at the discretion of the fabricator. I know it is not a really popular point of view, but that is just the way it is. There really is more to deciding where the seam would go than just the size of the slab or where the seam would look best in the kitchen.

    Most stone installations will have seams. They are unavoidable in medium or large sized kitchens. One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum. It seems that a good book could be written about seams, their quality, and their placement�and still you will have some information that will be omitted! For something as seemingly simple as joining two pieces of stone, seams have evolved into their own universe of complexity far beyond what anybody should have fair cause to expect!

  • Factors determining seam placement:

    • The slab: size, color, veining, structure (fissures, strength of the material an other characteristics of the stone)

    • Transport to the job site: Will the fabricated pieces fit on whatever vehicle and A-frames he has available

    • Access to the job site: Is the house on stilts? (common in coastal areas) How will the installers get the pieces to where they need to go? Will the tops fit in the service elevator if the apartment is on the 10th floor? Do the installers need to turn tight corners to get to the kitchen? There could be 101 factors that will influence seam placement here alone.

    • Placement and size of undermount (or other) cut-outs. Some fabricators like to put seams in undermount sinks, some do not. We, for instance will do it if absolutely necessary, and have done so with great success, but will not do so as general practice. We do like to put seams in the middle of drop-in appliances and cut-outs and this is a great choice for appearances and ease of installation.

    • Location of the cabinets: Do the pieces need to go in between tall cabinets with finished sides? Do the pieces need to slide in under appliance garages or other cabinetry? How far do the upper cabinets hang over? Is there enough clearance between the vent hood and other cabinets? Again the possibilities are endless and would depend on each individual kitchen lay-out and - ultimately -

    • Install-ability of the fabricated pieces: Will that odd angle hold up to being moved and turned around to get on the peninsula if there is no seam in it? Will the extra large sink cut-out stay intact if we hold the piece flat and at a 45 degree angle to slide it in between those two tall towers? Again, 1,001 combinations of cabinetry and material choices will come into play on this question.

    You can ask your fabricator to put a seam at a certain location and most likely he will oblige, but if he disagrees with you, it is not (always) out of spite or laziness. Check on your fabricator's seams by going to actual kitchens he has installed. Do not trust what you see in a showroom as sole testament to your fabricator's ability to do seams.

    With modern glues and seaming methods, a seam could successfully be put anywhere in an installation without compromising the strength or integrity of the stone. If a seam is done well, there is - in theory - no "wrong" location for it. A reputable fabricator will also try to keep the number of seams in any installation to a minimum. It is not acceptable, for instance to have a seam in each corner, or at each point where the counter changes direction, like on an angled peninsula.

    Long or unusually large pieces are often done if they can fit in the constraints of a slab. Slabs as a rule of thumb will average at about 110"x65". There are bigger slabs and quite often smaller ones too. Check with the fabricator or the slab yard. They will be more than happy to tell you the different sizes of slabs they have available. Note, though, that the larger the slabs, the smaller the selection of possible colors. Slab sizes would depend in part on the capabilities of the quarry, integrity of the material or the capabilities of the machinery at the finishing plant. We have had slabs as wide as 75" and as long as 130" before, but those are monsters and not always readily available.

  • Generally, it is not a good idea to seam over a DW because there's no support for the granite, and anything heavy placed at or near the seam would stress the stone, possibly breaking it.

  • Rodding is another issue where a tremendous amount of mis-information and scary stories exist: The main purpose for rodding stone would be to add integrity to the material around cut-outs. This is primarily for transport and installation and serves no real purpose once the stone is secured and fully supported on the cabinets. It would also depend on the material. A fabricator would be more likely to rod Ubatuba than he would Black Galaxy, for instance. The flaky and delicate materials prone to fissures would be prime candidates for rodding. Rodding is basically when a fabricator cuts slots in the back of the stone and embeds steel or fiberglass rods with epoxy in the slots in the stone. You will not see this from the top or front of the installation. This is an "insurance policy" created by the fabricator to make sure that the stone tops make it to your cabinets all in one piece

  • Edges: The more rounded an edge is, the more stable it would be. Sharp, flat edges are prone to chipping under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. Demi or full bullnose edges would almost entirely eliminate this issue. A properly milled and polished edge will be stable and durable regardless of the profile, though. My guess at why ogee and stacked edges are not more prevalent would be purely because of cost considerations. Edge pricing is determined by the amount of work needed to create it. The more intricate edge profiles also require an exponentially larger skill set and more time to perfect. The ogee edge is a very elegant edge and can be used to great effect, but could easily look overdone if it is used everywhere. We often advise our clients to combine edges for greater impact - i.e., eased edge on all work surfaces, and ogee on the island to emphasize the cabinetry or unusual shape.
    Edge profiles are largely dependent on what you like and can afford. There is no real pro or con for regular or laminated edges. They all have their place in the design world. Check with your fabricator what their capabilities and pricing are. Look at actual kitchens and ask for references.


  • Seams:
    One hallmark of a good fabricator is that they will keep the seams to a minimum [StoneGirl]

    • A generic good quality seam should have the following characteristics:
      • It should be flat. According to the Marble Institute of America (MIA) a minimal amount of lippage is acceptable (1/32"), but conscientious fabricators all strive for a perfectly flat and smooth joint.

      • It should be narrow - as in smaller than 1/16". (I think the MIA stipulates no larger than 1/8", but that is pushing it - and only if the fabricator bevels the edges of the seam, almost similar to the edge of a stone tile. This is, thank goodness, not a standard practice any more!)

      • The color on either side of the seam should match as closely as possible. On regularly patterned stones like Ubatuba for example - there should be no variation. On stones with variation in colors or veins, the match should be made as close as was humanly possible.

      • Vein direction should flow. The MIA suggests a single direction of vein flow, but it is acceptable IF DISCUSSED WITH THE CLIENT to change vein direction on a seam if no other option is available. This would happen in book matched slabs - you will have a "butterfly" seam in this case. In other cases, the fabricator could put a miter seam in a corner and change vein direction 90 degrees. This is usually done with extremely linear veining like Bamboo Green, for example, but this is something that should be discussed with the fabricator and agreed upon by the client.

      • The seam on the finished edge of the stone should NOT dip in and create a divot in the edge. When you run your fingers over the edge, you should not be able to feel the location of the seam at all.

      • The thickness of the slabs on either side of the seam should be equal (or feathered out so that there is no discernible difference)

      • The glue in the seam should be of a color that matches the stone as closely as possible. Glue joints that are too light or too dark will show up something terrible. The idea behind tinting the glue is to try to make the seam "disappear" or something relatively close to it

  • Checklist:
    • Check the seams for evenness and smoothness.

      • Make sure that the seams are neat and clean.

      • Make sure that the seams are not obvious.

      • Make sure the seams are butted tight

      • Make sure that there are no scratches, pits, or cracks

    • If sealing is necessary (not all granites need to be sealed):

      • Make sure that the granite has been sealed

      • If more than one application of sealer was applied, ask how long they waited between applications

      • Ask which sealer has been used on the granite.

    • Make sure the sink reveal is consistent all the away around

    • Check the gap of the granite at the wall junctions.

    • Check for inconsistent overhangs from the counter edges

    • Check for chips. These can be filled.

    • Make sure the top drawers open & close

    • Make sure that you can open & close your dishwasher

    • Make sure the stove sits up higher than the counter

    • Make sure that you have the appropriate clearances for your appliances

    • Check the edge all around, a good edge should have the following characteristics:
      • Shine: The edge polish should match the top polish in depth and clarity. The edge should not be milky, dull, or waxy.

      • The edge should not have "waves". Eyeball along the edge. A good edge should have a mirror like reflection and be fairly flat. Waves that you can see or feel are not a good thing.

      • The aris (very top of the edge) should be crisp and straight, even on a bullnose edge. Once again you can see this by eyeballing along the very top end of the edge profile. A wavy, dippy aris is poor craftsmanship.

      • A good edge will have a consistent profile. It will not be larger in some spots or smaller in others.

      • A good edge should also have NO tooling lines. These will be fine lighter/white lines running along the edge. This is a mark of a poor edge polish, of a CNC machine that is not set correctly, and a lack of hand finishing. This is common when a company has only mechanical fabrication (i.e., CNC machines or line polishers) and no skilled hand fabricators to finish the work properly.

    • Run your hands around the entire laminated edge of yor counters to make sure they are smooth

    • Check surrounding walls & cabinets for damage

Miscellaneous Information:

  • More than all the above and below, though, is to be present for both the templating as well as having the templates placed on your slabs at the fabricator's
    If you canot be there, then have a lengthy conversation about seam placement, ways to match the movement, and ways to color-match the counters that will be joined at the seam

  • Find a fabricator who is a member of the SFA

  • When they polish your stone for you don't let them wax it. It will look terrible in 2 months when the wax wears off.

  • Don't use the Magic Eraser on granite--especially AB

  • Any slab with more fill (resin) than stone is certainly a no-no!!

  • When you do check for scratches, have overhead lighting shining down so scratches are easier to see

  • Don't let them do cutouts in place (granite dust becomes a major issue)

  • Granite dust can be a problem...some have heard of SS appliances & hoods damaged by the dust, others have heard of drawer glides being ruined by the dust

  • If you have wood floors--especially if you're in the process of staining or finishing them--make sure that they don't spill or drip granite sealer on the wood floors. Apparently the sealer interferes with the stain or finish process.

  • Suggested Prep for Installation:
    • Remove any drawers and pullouts beneath any sections that will be cut or drilled onsite, e.g., sink cutouts and/or faucet, soap dispenser, air gap, instant hot etc. holes, cooktop cutouts.

    • Then just cover the glides themselves with a few layers of blue painter's tape (or some combo of plastic wrap and tape)

    • If you make sure to cover the top of the glides and attach some of the tape to the cab wall as well (to form sort of a seal)and cover the rest of the glides completely with tape, you should be fine.

    • Usually the fabricators will have someone holding a vacuum hose right at the spot where they are drilling or cutting, so very little granite dust should be landing on the glides. What little dust escapes the vacuum will be blocked by the layer(s) of tape.

    • When done w/installation, remove the tape and use a DustBuster (or similar) on all the cabinets and glides

  • Countertop Support:

    • If your granite is 2 cm thick, then there can be no more then 6" of of unsupported span with a 5/8" subtop

    • If your granite is 3 cm thick, then there can be no more then 10" of unsupported span - no subtop required

    • If you need support, the to determine your corbel dimensions:

    • Thickness of Stone - Dimension of Unsupported Span = Corbel Dimensino

    • i.e., an 18" total overhang in 2 cm would require a 12" corbe; the same overhang in 3 cm would require an 8" corbel


clipped on: 04.27.2014 at 12:48 pm    last updated on: 04.27.2014 at 12:48 pm

RE: How should I layout my kitchen? Need window (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: mpagmom on 09.22.2011 at 08:21 am in Kitchens Forum

I'm running out now, but I wanted to quickly show you what LRy511 did in her kitchen.


I'm also building from a modified Don Gardner plan and I'm changing my kitchen to an L-shape with an island. I had the sink on the island first but struggled with the openness so I moved it to a wall where it would be blocked by the island a bit from the great room. Here's a draft of my plan to give you an idea.


Without seeing your plan, I doubt you need a door from the kitchen to the dining room. Can you easily cut through the foyer to get there?

My current kitchen/breakfast nook/family room is almost identical to the one in the original plan. My kitchen seems dark, but that is because there are only 4 can lights and 2 pendant lights over the peninsula. Make sure you have plenty of can lights and under cabinet lighting and you'll be fine.

I think you're wise not to have the 2-story living room. You'll still get plenty of light from all those windows on the back.

BTW, my current house plan is very similar to the one you are proposing, except we don't have the first floor master. In our plan the stairs go off the the bottom left corner of the family room and take up the space you have as a hall between the LR and FR. That opens up the foyer a lot. It's something you might consider if you can find another doorway to the master. Of course it might not work with your second-floor layout, but I thought I'd mention it.


clipped on: 03.30.2014 at 09:08 am    last updated on: 03.30.2014 at 09:09 am

RE: Request for Kitchen Layout and Transition to Family Room Help (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: buehl on 03.25.2014 at 09:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

"... I want to get this right, and we really can not afford to make a major mistake with layout..."

Getting it right may mean having a heart-to-heart talk with your builder (about that prep sink cost). How much will covering the patio by the Breakfast Nook cost? Maybe it would better to postpone covering the patio and put the money to a better, more functional kitchen layout now.

OK, here are two layouts I worked on late last night (but it got too late to post since I have a rather detailed and long analysis!). One has a prep sink and one does not. Personally, I prefer the functionality and aesthetics of the one with the prep sink, but it's your call since it's your kitchen.


Layout #1

  • Nice separation of the Primary Zones - Prep, Cooking, Cleanup - especially the separation of the Cleanup Zone from the Prep & Cooking Zones. It allows multiple people to prep and cook at the same time as well as reduces zone-crossing.

    I'm surprised that you say that only one of you preps/cooks - do your children not help? With a larger kitchen and the separation of zones, the kitchen should easily accommodate multiple cooks. The same goes for cleaning up.

  • The Cleanup Zone is off to the side, out of the Prep and Cooking Zones.
  • With the Cleanup Zone separated from the other two primary zones, someone can be cleaning up or emptying the DW while someone else is prepping and/or cooking.
  • There's a 36" Dish Hutch in the Cleanup Zone so it's easy to put dishes away when emptying the DW. The base cabinet is 27" deep and the upper cabinet is 15" deep to accommodate large dinner plates. The upper cabinet goes to the counter for extra storage
  • The Dish Hutch is situated such that it's close to the doorway to the DR to make setting the table easy and not too far from the Breakfast Nook. Since it's on the end of the perimeter run, someone setting the table in the Breakfast Nook (as well as in the DR) will not need to go through any of the primary work zones and so will not get in the way of someone prepping or cooking.
  • The Prep and Cooking Zones are protected from through-traffic (very desirable!)
  • Both the Pantry and the Refrigerator are situated so there is no major zone-crossing - in particular, you don't have to cross the Cleanup Zone to go from the Prep or Cooking Zone to the Refrigerator or to the Pantry (again, very desirable!)
  • The refrigerator is on the periphery and easily accessed not only from the Kitchen but also the Breakfast Nook and Family Room - without those from the FR and BN getting in the way of those prepping, cooking, or even cleaning up.
  • The Pantry is closer to the Hall doorway (which is where groceries will enter the kitchen).
  • The Pantry is a reach-in pantry with shelves on two walls.
  • The Pantry doors are double doors to minimize their impact on the aisle. The only drawback to this location is that the door swing does overlap the DW door when it's open. I have something similar with my Pantry door and my ovens - but the oven doors are not open that much so it hasn't been an issue. In your case it's the DW door - but that also isn't open all the time - only when loading/unloading. While it will be open more than my oven doors are, the DW door still won't be open that much.
  • The island is 60"D x 133.5"W. It can accommodate 6 seats - 4 on the long side and 2 on the short side. 60" is about as limit in depth for an island for most people. The island shouldn't be so deep that you cannot reach the center for cleaning. (Most people can reach at least 30" - so 60" is a reasonable depth.) The deeper island also means that your kids can be doing homework while you're working in the kitchen - without you getting in each others way.
  • The island offers a wonderful expanse of workspace for school projects, crafts, baking, cooking, gift wrapping, staging food for a party, etc. It also offers a large prep workspace - there is plenty of room to spread out if needed! In addition, the ovens are close enough to make roasting or baking easy from the Prep & Cooking Zones.
  • The presence of the prep sink in the island makes it easy to prep and cook without having to compete for space at the cleanup sink. As mentioned previously, when someone is cleaning up, others can prep - and both will have a sink to work at. Ditto if someone wants to get a drink of water, wash hands, etc.
  • The prep sink also allows you to have a large single-bowl sink - something that many, if not most, people here on the forum will tell you is very desirable. Now, all your pots & pans, refrigerator shelves, etc. will fit in the sink for cleaning! With a double-bowl sink, the largest bowl you can probably get and still have both bowls be functional is 21" wide - and most are less. I put in a single-bowl 30" sink - giving you a much wider bowl.
  • The island also features 87" of 15" deep cabinets. These cabinets will add a lot of storage to the kitchen - especially for seasonal or seldom-used items.
  • The MW drawer is on the periphery and close to the refrigerator and a water source - most food to be MW'd comes from the refrigerator and most need water added to this location is very functional. It's also on the periphery for the same reason the refrigerator is - to allow access from outside the kitchen without getting in the way of work in the kitchen.
  • The cooktop has a decent amount of space on either side - great for landing space and any additional prepping needed while cooking. It's across from the prep sink so if you need to add water or empty a pot, you don't have to compete for the cleanup sink and you don't have to walk too far with that pot of boiling water! Notes that while you can add cold water from a
  • The counters on both walls of the perimeter are 28.5" deep - 3" deeper than standard. This allows you to have more space behind the sink for a faucet, soap dispenser, etc. In particular, some of the larger pull-down faucets can be problematical when trying to fit them behind a sink in a standard depth counter...the handles often won't fit - so those 3 extra inches make a big difference. Those 3" also add to the workspace.
  • In addition to deeper counters, I put in deeper base and upper cabinets along both perimeter runs to add to your available storage. If you cannot get deeper base cabinets from your cabinetmaker, then you can pull the cabinets out 3" from the wall. Just about every cabinet line offers deeper upper cabs, so you shouldn't have any problems getting those.

gerty1231's Kitchen #1 photo gerty12311_zps05310bf6.jpg

The Zone Map:

gerty1231's Kitchen #1 - Zones photo gerty12311Zones_zpsdaa2af54.jpg

[Layout #2 in the next post]

This post was edited by buehl on Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 22:00


clipped on: 03.28.2014 at 11:52 pm    last updated on: 03.28.2014 at 11:52 pm

RE: lantern light for foyer with 9 foot ceiling? (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: illinigirl on 03.24.2014 at 09:49 am in Building a Home Forum

My lighting designer said that we need to aim for the fixture (plus chain plus plate) to hang no lower than 7 feet from the floor- does this mesh with what you all are doing? What kind of diameter do you think I should aim for? Lanterns with the height of 15-17" seem to be no more than 12" in diameter- is that sufficient?


clipped on: 03.27.2014 at 11:54 pm    last updated on: 03.27.2014 at 11:54 pm

tell me about your automated pantry or closet lights please?

posted by: illinigirl on 02.17.2014 at 08:47 am in Building a Home Forum

Are they motion sensor or door jamb switches? I need to decide this morning (or maybe I can buy more time with the electrician but really really soon) what to do about my pantry and closets both of which are full walk in spaces, not reach in.

I went into the walk through asking for motion sensor lights in the pantry and master closet but he is suggesting door jamb switches instead.

What did you choose and why?



Motion sensor
clipped on: 03.10.2014 at 03:30 pm    last updated on: 03.10.2014 at 03:30 pm

What do you store in your kitchen drawers?

posted by: Mom23Es on 03.07.2012 at 10:28 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm trying to make sure I have a good balance between cabinets and drawers in my new kitchen. In my current little kitchen I hardly have any drawers and none of them are the larger kind. I'm so excited to get BIG drawers that I feel like I might be a bit over zealous about it. I also know that all these special cabinets cost more than just a plain cabinet.

So, what do you put in your kitchen drawers? The big ones and little ones?


clipped on: 03.09.2014 at 12:02 pm    last updated on: 03.09.2014 at 12:04 pm

It's February 2014, how is your build? Part 3

posted by: mommytoty on 02.21.2014 at 07:42 pm in Building a Home Forum

Wow, we are on Part 3! Lots of activity this month, which is great!

Thought I would share some of our paint selections :)

Bali for Master Bath:

 photo 8D71293D-9CF7-43A1-B7F4-F9447A43BCC1_zpse6ikr9n0.jpg

Edgecomb Gray as our neutral throughout the house (and one of our doors off to the side--LOVE!):
 photo F7368DCD-A7F9-4FDF-8FED-E0E9DEBDD1F0_zpsbnirgeov.jpg

Sporty Blue for son's room:
 photo 568B2A0D-A5A4-47DD-87CB-16C483B8031C_zpsh7qqnf3q.jpg

Palm Coast Teal (3 walls) and Feel the Energy (1) wall for daughter's room (talk about bright!!) :)
 photo 2757CFEC-2CA6-4234-B5E8-AE598EE8967B_zpsc3zctye7.jpg

Wythe Blue for office:
 photo 9E76305C-3FF4-4B29-AA43-63C985FEB4BB_zpskecfcubi.jpg

Sea Salt for Great Room and Kitchen:
 photo AF0E345C-5F3D-4B21-B624-5FADB69519B7_zps8ehkyndu.jpg

And here is a pic of the beams that are being installed off our ridge beam in the Great Room (all will be painted white):
 photo 458E8EF7-7797-4D41-88BA-D3BEB4965AF4_zpslmdw9cff.jpg


clipped on: 03.07.2014 at 10:43 am    last updated on: 03.07.2014 at 10:43 am

RE: Show me your kitchens with 9ft ceilings (Follow-Up #63)

posted by: lolauren on 02.05.2011 at 01:45 pm in Kitchens Forum

thrilledtobuild: Sure. :) The crown is about 7.5"H, the upper cabinet about 15.5"H and the bottom cabinet is about 32"H.


clipped on: 02.08.2014 at 03:53 pm    last updated on: 03.05.2014 at 11:57 am

9' ceilings, cabinets to ceiling - cabinet height?

posted by: seosmp on 02.19.2013 at 01:55 pm in Kitchens Forum


My kitchen has 9' ceilings. I will be having the cabinets/crown go to the ceiling (due to pipes/etc.).

For those who have 9' ceilings and cabinets to the ceiling, what is the cabinet height, and how tall is the crown?

I was going with 42" cabinets and this would leave about 12" for the crown. I do want a nice built-up crown, but I don't know that 12" will look ok. The cabinetmaker can make taller cabinets, so I was considering 45" cabinets with 9" crown.

If you could include pictures, that would be really helpful!



clipped on: 03.05.2014 at 11:30 am    last updated on: 03.05.2014 at 11:30 am

Getting more responses

posted by: buehl on 06.26.2013 at 01:29 am in Kitchens Forum

Recently, I have been asked by a couple of members how to go about getting more responses to threads - especially layout threads.

There are a few factors involved in getting responses:

  • Weekends, especially summer weekends, are usually not very active here - especially if it takes any time to respond. I recommend posting during the week and late afternoon/early evening Eastern time so your thread is on page 1 and will be seen by more people - especially those just stopping by for a few minutes after work and b/f making dinner or heading out for the evening. After dinner can also be a good time...
  • Layouts with dimensions that are difficult to read. This has become even more problematical since iVillage/GW made their so-called improvements to the site. It's now difficult to post a large enough layout that is easy to read. If I have to open a layout image in another window and fiddle with resizing and then still not be able to read the dimensions, I often bag it and move on.

    Try uploading pictures (especially layouts) to Photobucket (or similar photohosting site) and posting the picture in the message from there instead of of using GW's image upload facility. Upload it to Photobucket in a bigger size and copy the "HTML Code" directly into the message.

    There's more information in the FAQs about posting pictures. I've linked to the FAQs for the Kitchens Forum below.

  • Some people don't read the "Layout Help" topic (again, see the FAQs) and post asking for help without giving us very much information about the poster's goals, family composition, plans for using the space,etc. Trying to design a kitchen in a vacuum of knowledge can be frustrating and can lead to "generic" kitchens.
  • Often, layouts don't have enough information for us to work with. A full set of dimensions is very helpful! (See the "Layout Help" FAQs topic).
  • Another deterrent is a poster who does not at least acknowledge those who have responded. Even if you don't like the response, at least acknowledge it. There have been many times in the past when I spent a couple of hours (or more) working on a layout for someone and they never responded or responded to others and completely ignored what I did - no comments at all. While I don't expect (or want) gushing and over the top thank-yous, it would be nice to know (1) that the person read and reviewed what I did and (2) whether I produced something useful or if there were some things that I could change/tweak for them. "Silence is Golden" is definitely not a rule here!
  • Pictures! Pictures are definitely worth a thousand words around here! When asking for advice on layouts, color combinations, problems, or just about anything else that has a "visual", post one or more pictures. We often need to see what you're talking about.
  • Post pictures - not links to pictures. It's much more convenient and easier for us to see the picture in the message than to have to go elsewhere to see it.
  • I also know that some of the regulars, like me, don't have the time we used to to respond with full-blown layouts or lengthy layout critiques...b/w family and job, my time has become very precious - and family comes b/f Kitchens! I do occasionally have time and will stop by...
  • Last, much as some might not like to hear it, we do often go the "extra mile" to respond to posters who have also been contributing on the Forum - even the "old timers" who aren't here that often anymore will probably get more responses - so take the plunge and start responding and helping others - it will help you in the end as well!

The very last piece of advice I have for newcomers is to read either one of the "Read Me" threads (they're all the same) or browse through the FAQs. The threads provide a more useful order of topics; those same topics are in the FAQs but in a different order. [I'm going to probably edit them to begin with #s or some such to force the order that makes most sense...but not tonight!]

Others may have additional advice - so please chime in!

Most recent "Read Me" thread still available:

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQs for the Kitchen's Forum


clipped on: 03.03.2014 at 10:16 pm    last updated on: 03.03.2014 at 10:16 pm

RE: Measure your stuff and get cabinets that accommodate? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: jakuvall on 02.04.2014 at 03:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

ardcp- it is precisely for small kitchens that I say that.
small kitchen- frameless makes a difference then-

I use a 30 or 33" 3 drawer base (prefer full subtop) with full height sides to the drawers and 4.25" dividers running front to back- either adjustable or I work out the spacing- 3 per drawer- nothing gets stacked- fry pans and lids are tilted against dividers, small sauce pans are set on their sides two per space. middle space is mixed stuff- top drawer had a divider one side of the drawer fits a sauteuse and a 12-1/2" fry pan, steam basket and splash screens- other side is utensils
Have recently started to have the back of the drawer box scooped to allow a little extra clearance for handles.
(my 30-only thing stacked are colanders and one lid is on the pasta set-
has top drawer as described, middle has 11.5 fry, 2qt saucier, 1.5, 2.5, 3, 4 qt, 8qt pasta with steamer insert, lids for all, 3 colanders (only thing that nests) bottom has crepe, non stick fry, two cast iron, 6 qt, 8 qt with the pasta insert from above, lids, spider and one or two other things)

-15" or wider full pullout for spices and oils,
-21 or 24" wide- single door- one shelf, one rollout, 5 or 6 tray dividers on the bottom (it is not possible to get more stuff into any cabinet and have it all accessible than this configuration) suits fry pans, roasting, sheets, yaydaydyady

-over oven or fridge- deep cab with trays
-Small appliances and awkward sizes go in - corner cabinet (my preference) either a Suzi q or a hafele lemans depending on weather a blind or a susan makes for better use of other cabinets.
-pull out trash (in a pinch under sink but careful detailing needed)
-Alternate for appliances is cabinet with ROS (sometimes can manage 3) or two drawers and a roll out below-
a 4 (15") drawer base for foils, wraps, baggies, tea, chips, bread,
The rest depends on space - first choice is a shallow depth pantry flanking the fridge opening on it's side....else pullout pantry on side of fridge (minimum 15" max 21)

...anyone can cook with what fits in all that or they should go to the diner :)
Have posted pics of most of these at times in the past.


clipped on: 03.03.2014 at 04:00 pm    last updated on: 03.03.2014 at 04:00 pm

Best websites for find deals while building your home?

posted by: Laura12 on 08.22.2012 at 01:19 pm in Building a Home Forum

Does anyone have any websites they used to buy items for their home they would like to recommend?

I am looking for EVERYTHING, bathtubs, sinks, cabinets (probably get that one locally), fixtures, hardware, windows, doors, flooring, lighting and anything else that I could possible get a deal on!

We don't actually start building until December, however I'm 7 months pregnant, so I'm trying to come up with a list of resources and ideas now so that I'm not searching around for all of this with a newborn on my lap! ;)


clipped on: 02.21.2014 at 05:10 pm    last updated on: 02.21.2014 at 05:10 pm

Share your best sites for deals on supplies!

posted by: wear_your_baby on 03.13.2010 at 09:44 pm in Building a Home Forum

Anyone want to share your favorite sites to find great deals on your materials? We're owner-builders so we're trying to find great deals and buy things along the way to keep them out of the loan. Some of the many things we're shopping for are: door knobs, recessed lighting, flood CFL bulbs, ceiling fans, faucets, cabinet pulls, kitchen sink, tile, toilets, tubs...

Any great scores you want to share? Thanks in advance!


clipped on: 02.21.2014 at 05:09 pm    last updated on: 02.21.2014 at 05:09 pm

RE: Everything I Wanted to Know About Drawers... (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: angela12345 on 02.02.2013 at 02:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

I have posted this other places before, but I am going to try to consolidate it *all* in one place.

My kitchen cabinets from UltraCraft are semi-custom. LOVE them. They are Frameless cabinets that allow size modifications in 1/16" increments to height, width, and depth (or all 3) at no additional cost. So, go ahead and make your uppers 13" or 14" deep for those extra large mixing/salad bowls and charger plates, and maximize your storage space for example storing glasses 4 deep instead of 3 deep. Have deeper base cabinets. Make your toekick slightly shorter so you have an extra inch or two for more drawers height. Cut down on the fillers you need by making your cabinets the exact width you need them, instead of being forced to choose from 3" increments. I like that all my uppers are flat across the bottom (no frame/dividers between cabinets), so I could install one long plugmold and one long under cabinet light, then hide it all with lightrail at the front. Also, standard is Blum full extension soft close drawer glides, soft close doors, no charge for finished sides (like end of cabinet run), all dovetail drawers with fully captured bottoms, and bunches of other stuff is standard. 100 year warranty. Yep, I LOVE them !!!

Cabinet Decisions - I emailed this part to a friend recently, so am copying here ...
1. One of the first things to decide is what cabinet door overlay you want. Inset doors or overlay doors ? Inset doors sit inside of the cabinet box frame rather than attached to the front of the cabinet box. Overlay is further broken down into traditional overlay, partial / modified overlay, and full overlay and determines how much of the cabinet box/frame behind the door you want to show (traditional overlay shows the most of the cabinet box & frame, full overlay shows the least). The hinges can be exposed or concealed for all overlay styles except full overlay which only allows for concealed hinges. The overlay you choose will automatically knock out some cabinet options and cabinet mfgs who may not make that type of cabinet. (My cabinets are full overlay)
See ...
And ...

2. Then you want to decide on the cabinet boxes ... framed or frameless ? Some mfgs only make one or the other, but not both, so this will knock out other mfgs. Framed cabinets have a frame on the face of the cabinet box that the doors attach to and allows for inset doors as well as all 3 overlay styles (traditional, partial, and full overlay). On frameless, the doors attach directly to the cabinet box sides instead of a face frame. Frameless are typically full overlay, but inset is also possible. I think a small partial overlay is possible on frameless if you are using semi-custom or custom cabinets - you would order slightly smaller doors so a little of the cabinet box would show. Traditional overlay is not possible on frameless because the cabinet box sides are not wide enough to show the traditional 1"-2" of the face frame. (My cabinets are frameless)
See ... BOX - construction.asp

The disadvantage of framed is you give up useable space in drawers/pullouts and ease of access on cabinets with doors. This is because the drawer or pullout has to clear the face frame that goes around the opening, so they are narrower from side to side and also shallower from top to bottom. In a small kitchen, the extra useable space from frameless could make a big difference. Estimates say frameless gives 10-15% more space, so 100 inches of framed would be 110 inches in frameless. To me, an extra 10 inches of drawer space is huge, especially when you don't have much to begin with !! Frameless cabinets with doors also offer easier access - there is no face frame creating a 1-2" obstruction on the left, right, and top inside the cabinet doors, also there is typically no center stile between double doors in frameless.

For full overlay doors, there is very little difference in the looks of framed vs frameless. From an exterior appearance standpoint, these cabinets will basically look alike. Because the doors are full overlay, you don't see much or any of the frame and would have to open the door or drawer to see if the cabinet was framed or frameless. For inset doors, the framed cabinets would have a wider frame around the door than the frameless cabinet would.

In the below two pics, the cabinet on the left is framed, and the one on the right is frameless. Looking only at the size of the opening, see how the drawer for frameless is wider from left to right and also has more open space from top to bottom. The useable drawer space is a couple inches more in each direction in the frameless. If they both had the same size full overlay exterior drawer face on them, they would look alike from the exterior. You would not be able to see the useable interior space until you opened the drawer.

As catbuilder said, the space for inset would be the same, depending on which you use. In other words, it doesn't matter if the framed cabinet on the left had overlay or inset, the actual drawer space would be the same no matter what door style was used on this cabinet. And, if the frameless on the right had overlay or inset, the actual drawer space would be the same for that cabinet. If they both had inset doors, you can see that the framed cabinets would have a much wider "frame" around the door and drawer openings.

3. The third thing to consider is the cosmetics ... the door style you like, the drawer style (slab/flat/plain drawer front or drawer front that matches your door style), as well as wood species (cherry, oak, maple, etc), and stain or paint colors, glazing, distressing, finish/sheen, etc. (My cabinets are slab drawer, raised panel door, cherry with a chestnut stain, no additional finishes or glazes)
This website shows just a few of the different door styles available ... DOOR - style.asp

4. The fourth thing to consider is stock cabinets vs semi-custom vs custom cabinet mfgs. Stock cabinets are available in 3" width increments (cabinets have to be width of 12", 15", 18", etc), filler strips fill in gaps between cabinets and wall or appliances, you have to choose from the heights and depths they offer, and there are very few options available, which can be pretty pricey to add on. Semi-custom cabinets vary by manufacturer in what customizations and options they offer, but they offer many more options than stock and allow sizing modifications. With custom cabinets, there should be no limitations including drawings for non-standard items, custom molding profiles, door styles, alternate wood species, custom stains & finishes, construction, accessories and options. (My cabinets are semi-custom)

5. Finally, you want to consider the cabinet construction. Not that this is the least important ! It is one of the most important things. Pretty much all the other stuff is just the "pretty" stuff, LOL. This has to do with how well the cabinets are made - are the drawers stapled, dowelled, glued, dovetail ? What materials are the cabinets made of ? etc, etc.

Drawer depths
My bases are 24" deep bases and are all 20" useable interior from front to back. I'm pretty sure I could have (and definitely should have!) requested the drawers be an extra 1-2 inches deep to fill up the inside of the cabinet. I *think* the full extension glides would not have pulled out that extra inch or so, but I could have lived with that !! I was already used to my drawers not pulling out for the back 4 inches anyway with the cabinets I already had. I could have fit my 8qt stock pots 2 deep front to back in the drawer instead of having to offset them slightly in the drawer if I had even an extra 1/2".

Some people choose to have their base cabinets deeper (i.e. 27-30" deep instead of 24" deep standard) from front to back for a number of different reasons, for example to make the front of the cabinet even with the front of the refrigerator so the standard fridge looks like a built in/counter depth. Or they may want a larger countertop work surface. This can be accomplished by using deeper base cabinets or by using standard 24" deep bases and installing them a couple inches out from the wall then covering the full space with the countertop material. If you want to do this and order deeper bases, be sure to specify the drawers are deeper from front to back as well ! Some mfgs will still only install the standard depth drawer even though the cabinet box is larger.
(in pics below, my two standard $500 ea fridges look counter depth by recessing the wall behind the fridges only)

Drawer Heights
You can get a number of different drawer combinations ... for example two drawer could be 6-24 or 15-15, three drawer could be 6-12-12 or 6-9-15, four drawer could be 6-6-6-12 or 6-6-9-9, five drawer could be 6-6-6-6-6. These are just examples of size combinations ! I have even seen linens in 8 shallow pullouts behind doors in one base cabinet.

The height of my drawer fronts do not line up all the way around the 4 sides of my kitchen, but do line up when you are looking at any one section at a time. I have 2 stacks together that are 6-12-12 separated by a stove. On the opposite corner of the kitchen are 2 stacks that are 6-6-9-9. What helps is that my stacks are caddy-cornered across the kitchen with appliances and base cabinets with doors separating them ... it would be very hard to look in any direction where you could see the "mis-matches" at one time. Some people have drawer stacks right next to each other where the drawer heights do not 'line up' and others have all the drawer bases in their entire kitchen with the exact same horizontal lines all the way around.

My one advice ... find out the interior useable height of your drawers ahead of time. My Ultracraft cabinets are frameless so have more than framed would. They have undermount glides. On the 6-12-12 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 10.5, 9.5 (top to bottom on stack). Where this becomes an issue ... I wanted to store all of my pans, pots, etc vertical on their edges in the drawers so they wouldn't have to be stacked. The middle 10.5" drawers are tall enough for all of the casserole/baking dishes and pie tins, the roasting pan, and almost all of the pans, pots, and lids to stand on edge (the 9.5" drawers are not tall enough for a couple of those items to stand on edge). Both height drawers are definitely tall enough for all of the big pots (even the 8qt stockpot) that I own, except for the huge "canning" pot which is on the top shelf of one of my 15" deep uppers.

Obviously, neither drawer is tall enough for my 12" pans/skillets to stand on edge (arrggh!). I have really been struggling with how to store these. Right now I have them flat in the bottom of the 9.5" height bottom drawer. Big waste of real estate !! I wish I had a shallower drawer I could put the big skillets in, like 6-6-6-12 so the frying pans were flat in drawers 2 & 3 and the pots were in the bottom drawer. Or even better(?!) if I had made my drawer heights 6-9-15 that would have given me 4, 7.5, 12.5 useable. My tallest 8qt pots are 7" tall, so all of them could have gone in the middle drawer and everything on edge could have gone in the bottom drawer (including the 12" skillets!). Google for images of drawers with pans on edge.

On the other side of the kitchen with the 6-6-9-9 stacks, the useable interior drawer height is 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 (top to bottom). I use the top 6" drawers all around the kitchen for silverware, spatulas and all the other kitchen gadgets, in-drawer knife block, foil wax paper cling wrap and plastic baggies, potholders, dish towels, etc. All of those things fit with no problem in these drawers including the ladle and the box grater. The 3rd drawer holds all of the tupperware and is the perfect height for this - 6 would have been too shallow and 12 would have been too deep. The bottom drawer is where we currently keep the paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

(note: the interior drawer heights listed above vary slightly for the bottom two 12" drawers, the top two 6" drawers, and for the bottom two 9" drawers because of an interior cross support and space to clear the granite without scraping at the top. Jakuvall addresses this below "Note that some brands use intermediate stretchers in frameless which take up 3/4" vertical clearance. If they do I always spec them to be removed.")

ALSO: the drawer face to interior useable space ratio will be DIFFERENT depending on if your drawer face is inset, partial overlay, or full overlay, and depending on if you have undermount glides or sidemount glides as catbuilder says above. For example on my 6-6-9-9 four drawer stack ... 1.5" counter + 6 + 6 + 9 + 9 + 4.5" toekick = 36" finished height. My useable heights are 4, 4.75, 6.75, 7 = 22.5" total useable height. I lose 1.25-2.25" useable height for each drawer.
Compare to quiltgirl above inset drawers ... 1.5" counter + 5.5 + 5.5 + 6.25 + 6.25 + 4.5 toekick (assumed) = 29.5". Are her cabinets shorter than mine ? No ! Add in between each of her drawers approx 1.25" face frame. She has undermount glides as well so her useable heights are 4, 4, 4.75, 4.75 = 17.5" total useable height. She only loses 1.5" useable height for each drawer face showing so it sounds like she is losing less, but she is also losing useable height in the face frame between each drawer which is why her total useable space is less.
This is FINE !! Nothing at all against her cabinets. They will be beautiful. Inset is a gorgeous look. And she knew she was going to lose space with the inset when she chose them, but chose to do it because inset is the look she loves.

Drawer widths
The maximum cabinet width my manufacturer will do for drawer bases is 36" wide. I have 4 drawer bases at 21", 32", 17", and 36" wide. The interior useable width of these drawer bases are 18, 29, 14, 33 wide, so 3" less than the exterior width in each.

 photo 4-5-11-kitchen.jpg
Going around my kitchen ... first I have a 6" wide pullout broom closet. Next are two 30" wide fridge/top freezers. There are full depth cabinets above the fridges with an adjustable shelf. Then a 24" full height cabinet with pantry space at the top, MW, a single oven, and 6" high drawer under oven (4.5" useable height).

The 21" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the left of my stove. Top drawer holds knife block, sharpener, scissors, trivets, potholders. 2nd drawer holds baking dishes on their edge. Bottom drawer is basically empty - it has one 8qt stockpot. If my drawer heights had been 6-9-15 instead (did I say grrrr?), I would have used the middle drawer as a bread drawer and stored the bakeware on edge in the bottom drawer.

Next is the stove (Whirlpool GGE388LXS Electric Range w/Dbl ovens).
This stove is now available with an induction top which is what I would have gotten if it had been available at the time WGI925C0BS[WGI925C0BS]-1021750/WGI925C0BS/

The 32" 3 drawer 6-12-12 is to the right of the stove. Top drawer holds spatulas, spoons, ladles, wood spoons, basting brushes, meat thermometer, etc - things that are used at the stove. 2nd drawer holds frying pans, the smaller pots (1qt 2qt 3qt), and lids all on their edges. Bottom drawer holds 8qt pots. Also, the 12" skillets with lids, splatter screens, and griddle are all stacked in one stack flat in bottom of drawer, Grrrrrrr. If they were in the drawer with the other frying pans instead of taking up real estate here, that lone 8qt pot in my other cabinet would have been here with the other pots.

Turn the corner and next is the first dishwasher and then a 36" sink base with Ticor S405D sink (70/30 double bowl). LOVE !!! <3
Turn the corner and next is a 36" wide all door base cabinet (no upper drawer) with full depth adjustable shelves. I use this base cabinet for all my small appliances - blender, beaters, toaster, George Foreman, elec can opener, etc. Next to this base cabinet is the second dishwasher, followed by an 18" prep sink base with a Ticor S815 14x15x8 sink, and an empty space for an ice maker which is where the trash can currently resides.

The 17" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 sits between the trash area/future ice maker and the peninsula and is on the opposite corner of the kitchen from the other drawer bases. The top drawer holds foil, wax paper, cling wrap, plastic baggies, chip clips, and restaurant menus. The 2nd drawer is our "junk" drawer and has some of everything including screwdrivers, clothespins, matches, flashlights, sewing kit, lint brush, etc. The 3rd drawer holds medicine, bandaids, alcohol, peroxide, as well as dish towels and plastic utensils from takeout restaurants in a tub. The bottom drawer is for "tupperware without partners" - bowls and lids with no matches (haha!).

The 36" 4 drawer stack 6-6-9-9 forms the peninsula. The top drawer holds all eating utensils (silverware and kid utensils), serving utensils, chopsticks, handheld can opener, wine opener in a strategically easy-to-access location : ), etc. The 2nd drawer holds all the other kitchen gadgets that aren't to the left and right of the stove like shrimp deveiners, graters, whisks, rolling pin, pizza rolling cutter-thingy, mashers, salad tongs, etc, etc. The 3rd drawer holds tupperware with their matching lids. The bottom drawer holds paper and plastic grocery bags until we carry them for recycling.

I don't like lazy susans or corner cabinets, so in the blind corner is a 26" all door base cabinet that opens out the backside to where the barstools sit.

Upper Cabinets
I will come back and fill this in later

We went with the same size handle for all of our drawers and also only one handle in the center for all of the drawers, no matter what the width of the drawer. They are 4" wide. We maybe would have used different widths, but the ones we liked in the finish we wanted did not come in a bunch of widths. The cabinet guy said they would look fine and they do. We have slab drawer fronts and the pulls are centered top to bottom and side to side on each drawer. We used round knobs on all doors.

Drawer Organizers
We ordered the drawer divider channels from Lee Valley so we could completely customize the interior of our drawers. They often have free shipping on orders over $40.
Google for images - lots of gardenweb members have used these.
Take inventory of the things you will be storing in the drawers & doors. Measure it all and plan ahead where things will go. From the FAQs that Buehl put together ...
Excellent information on organizing !!

These are not my cabinets ... examples of pans stored vertically ...

This is my kitchen ...
 photo 4-5-11-kitchen.jpg
A note on our kitchen ... this home is a vacation rental oceanfront beach house with 8 bedrooms, 6 baths, that sleeps 26 (send me a private message through My Page above if you are interested in renting or would like a link to see more info & pictures of the home). Hence the 2 fridges, 3 ovens, 2 dishwashers. We had a large portion of our family here at Thanksgiving (32 people) and had like 7 or 8 women working to prepare the feast all at one time. Thank you Gardenweb for helping design a kitchen that WORKS !!!

edited: mostly to decrease monster picture sizes thanks to GW changing their website coding, also clarified my wording on a couple things

This post was edited by angela12345 on Mon, Aug 26, 13 at 15:11


clipped on: 02.18.2014 at 09:50 pm    last updated on: 02.18.2014 at 09:51 pm

RE: About to pull the trigger-- will you take one more look? (Follow-Up #21)

posted by: swfr on 09.06.2013 at 05:47 pm in Kitchens Forum

Okay, I finally have an update. I have made the changes that everyone on here has helped me to see. The microwave has moved to next to the fridge. The sink has moved down. The island has shrunk by 6" to allow for a wider opening between the sink area wall and the island. The 24" deep cabinets flanking the vent hood is going to be pull-outs. Each one of these changes is thanks to all of you!
So if any of you awesome people have any more awesome ideas, I'd still love to hear them!
 photo SCN_0014_zpsb5af454a.png

Here also is my KD's drawing of how our fridge wall is going to look with the mantle hood. The microwave belongs in the 24" base cabinet next to the fridge, so just use your imagination there. :)
fridge wall minus the microwave in the 24

Thanks again, everyone!!!


clipped on: 02.17.2014 at 02:38 pm    last updated on: 02.17.2014 at 02:39 pm

I love my prep sink!

posted by: morton5 on 12.13.2008 at 10:57 am in Kitchens Forum

Forgive me for bragging, but I love my prep sink. It is close to my refrigerator, range, and ovens, and has 66 inches of counter space and two drawer stacks beside it:
What makes it really special, though, is how much my GC was able to fit into a 30" sink base for me. I have a 16x21x10 zero radius sink, a compact disposal with airswitch, a Never MT, and two 8-gallon trash pullouts. The trash cans (Ikea) come with a dividing mechanism, so when warm weather returns I can separate my non-recyclable trash into compost stuff and dump stuff. We were able to do all this with just millimeters to spare, but we did it! The trash pullout set-up is a modification I learned from Ikeafans.
The only sacrifice I had to make was that we had to flip the orientation of the zero-radius sink in order to fit the plumbing in the space between the trash cans. But I have grown to like it this way (water hits the drain better), and wish I had turned around my main sink, too. My GC is my hero!


clipped on: 02.15.2014 at 05:00 pm    last updated on: 02.15.2014 at 05:00 pm

Reveal, Kksmama gets her own sink and hood!

posted by: kksmama on 11.03.2013 at 05:13 pm in Kitchens Forum

(edited to add paint and ucl light detail)

I thought about remodeling this kitchen from the day I bought the house in 2001. I never liked the appliances, counters, or cabinets and didn't want to invest time or money in a partial fix. I didn't know how bad the layout was, but did know that I wanted a real vent (not OTR recirculating) and second sink.

Flooring - Lauzon natural Sapele 5" planks, diagonal, engineered (pre-remodel)
Dishwasher - Kenmore (pre-remodel)
Rangetop - KGCU467VSS, propane Kitchenaid
Microwave - KCMS1655BSS countertop Kitchenaid purchased as 3rd appliance to qualify for rebate
Double oven - KEBS208SSS Kitchenaid floor model
42" counter depth fridge - KBFC42FSS Kitchenaid floor model
Hood - Kobe IN2642SQB-1200 (42"), custom cabinet surround
Counters - "Godiva" at my stoneyard, "Pretoria" elsewhere. Geologically it is metamorphic gneiss.
Pendants - Hudson Valley Haverhill 7311SN
Backsplash - Paragon Pearl Lace mini-brick from
Sinks - Blanco silgranite cinder, precis large bowl and precis cascade super single
Faucets - Grohe concetta (prep) and Blanco Culina
Pulls - Amerock Candler
Glass - 1/2" reeded
Seating - Restoration Hardware (outlet!) Toledo Bar Chairs and stool
Paint color - SW match for EK color Adobe
UCL - Hafele loox high intensity 4000k led tape 833.73.401
Demo Day July 9, Expected completion mid August, actual completion early November

My favorite things include: deep and tall custom drawers, tapmaster, utrusta (Ikea) openers for trash, wood hollow drawer inserts, and Silgranite sinks - none of which I would've ever known about if not for GW. Most favorite is my functional layout and fabulous one level island. I'll always be grateful to Huango and Buehl for helping me understand what I needed there, and for my trash.

The amount of help and support I received from this forum cannot be overstated. I'm so thankful for the ideas, encouragement, inspiration, camaraderie, co-miseration, laughs, and the reassurance that I was not crazy (or at least in excellent company if beingTKO is crazy).

My mistakes include: not thinking through the impact on coffee station and outlets when cabinet depths changed on the sink wall, not double checking measurements made by the designer (I have a stupid 3+" filler as a result), not specifying light rail and crown style, not being sufficiently assertive with the contractor.

I'm still working on the color of lighting strips and bulbs, and the colors in most of these photos aren't exactly right (IRL my floors aren't so red, the island not so dark). So I'm not entirely done, but close enough that we had relatives over for dinner and I loved how functional and comfortable it was to do so. After sharing the indecision and agonies of remodeling with all of you, I'm excited to share the happy ending!

Old kitchen:
 photo IMG_0320_zps368d5c9c.jpg
 photo IMG_0313_zps27f03bf4.jpg

 photo ZiskaKitchenPlan_zpscf3eacb4.jpg

New Kitchen:
 photo IMG_8749_zpsb80c598c.jpg
 photo IMG_1466_zpse13b0b8d.jpg
 photo IMG_1486_zps35c790b3.jpg
My pullouts photo IMG_1474_zps13802240.jpg
charging drawer above potato and onion baskets (opposite fridge)
 photo IMG_1479_zpsee6eec74.jpg photo IMG_1480_zps015a7bc4.jpg
tall drawer for cutting boards, pizza pan, cookie sheets - this picture best captures the real color of the floor and island photo IMG_1476_zps74fe84e2.jpg
deep and tall drawers for appliances and bakeware photo IMG_1475_zps368cc057.jpg

This post was edited by kksmama on Fri, Nov 8, 13 at 12:42


clipped on: 02.15.2014 at 10:08 am    last updated on: 02.15.2014 at 10:08 am

RE: For Those with Prep Sink (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: buehl on 12.03.2012 at 11:54 pm in Kitchens Forum

I would recommend you try to get a prep sink no smaller than 18" wide. Mine is 15-3/4" square and while it's OK for most things, there are times when I wish it were a few inches bigger (those times seen to be happening more often lately...) If you can fit a 21" (or 24") sink base, then I would aim for the largest sink you can fit in the sink base. If it's off to the side, that leaves you approx 48" of prep space - a respectable amount of workspace!

Regarding septic & garbage disposals...we are on septic and have a garbage disposal on our cleanup sink (we should have put it on the prep sink or both, but that's a different topic). Check your local Code - in our case, we could have one as long as it was made specifically for septic systems. Ours is the InSinkErator Evolution Septic-Assist.

Regarding location of the prep sink, it depends on where it is most useful. Do you have a layout to post showing us the location of everything? (A "bird's eye view" of the space is best.)


Off topic...Welcome back IglooChic! I haven't seen you much lately (of course, I haven't been on much either...)

Here is a link that might be useful: Evolution Septic Assist


clipped on: 02.14.2014 at 05:42 pm    last updated on: 02.14.2014 at 05:42 pm

island measurements vs. size needed for stools

posted by: allnewappliances on 06.21.2010 at 11:42 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi all - I did a search but didn't come up with anything specific to answer my question, but I apologize if this has been asked in the past.
My island will be 47 X 107 inches. Right now in our design, we have 3 stools along the 107 inch side (will include a 18 inch overhang) and the 4th stool on the 47 inch side...and not sure how much of an overhang I will do there.
My question is - is there a % or # of inches you should allow on an island for each stool? I don't have the stools yet, but want to get a good size stool with a back.
Thanks in advance.


clipped on: 02.12.2014 at 11:59 pm    last updated on: 02.12.2014 at 11:59 pm

RE: kitchen layout suggestions (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: buehl on 10.14.2008 at 01:24 am in Kitchens Forum

Trash Pullout(s): If you're kitchen is large, you will probably need 2 sinks...prep and main/cleanup. One of my biggest regrets is that I put our only trash pullout at the main/cleanup sink, not the prep sink. It's across a 6' aisle from the prep area.

If you have the room, be sure to put a trash pullout at both sinks; if you cannot fit 2 (and I couldn't), consider putting it at the prep sink. Yes, during cleanup the trash gets used...but I'm prepping more often & for longer periods than cleanup so it would have been better to have it in the prep area.

Base Cabinets: Rather than pullout shelves (a.k.a., roll out trays (ROTS)) behind doors, consider mostly drawers. Drawers require one motion to open/close...pull the drawer open/push it closed. ROTS's OTOH, require you to open the door(s) and pullout the shelf, then push the shelf back in and close the door(s)...but the door(s) must be fully open to pull out the shelves and you cannot close the door(s) until the shelves are completely back inside.

Full-extension, Soft-close Drawers: Full-extension drawers (pull out all the way) are a must. Soft-close is a luxury that is well worth the extra you pay in many cabinet lines. Soft close drawers (and doors) only need a gentle shove to close...a couple of inches before they close they are stopped and very gently pulled completely in. Probably the most well-know vendor of soft-close drawers/hinges is Blumotion (Blum hardware).

Design: When designing your kitchen, think of and design around the various zones in your kitchen. The "work triangle" while it still has some validity, has been somewhat superseded by "zones". Storage zone, prep zone, cooking zone, serving zone, cleanup zone; then there are the "centers" beverage center, snack center, message center, baking center, etc.

Gadgets/Neat Ideas:

  • Tapmaster
  • NeverMT
  • Foot Pedal for trash pullouts
  • Airswitch
  • Soft-close hinges & drawer glides
  • piano hinges to utilize the filler space b/w the top of the refrigerator & cabinet above.
  • 4" Broom closets
  • Filler Pullouts to utilize the often necessary filler (3", 6", 9")--both base & wall
  • Windows down to the counter--both traditional/straight and bays and bows

I recommend you read the "Read Me" thread linked below. Then check out these threads:

Thread: Best advice from this forum

Thread: What do you wish you had done differently?

Thread: Now that I have [X], I think I could have lived without it (2007/2008 thread)

Thread: List of stuff in kitchens?

Thread: Scrimp on this, Splurge on that....

Thread: Cool cabinet 'insides' ideas...

Thread: Full-extension: on some or all drawers?

Thread: another list - what are the must have kitchen features?

Thread: Stone Information and Advice (& Checklists)

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!


clipped on: 02.11.2014 at 09:11 pm    last updated on: 02.11.2014 at 09:11 pm

RE: Kitchen layout-any advise? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: buehl on 12.10.2013 at 03:16 pm in Kitchens Forum

OK -here are a couple of ideas. Personally, I like Layout #1 best.


  1. The cabinets on the "bottom" wall are 3" deeper than normal, giving you a countertop that is 3" deeper as well. Those 3" can mean a lot - including giving you more more room behind the faucet! You have plenty of room, so there's no reason not to!

    If you cannot get/afford the deeper base cabinets, then pull them 3" out from the wall.

    For the uppers, I strongly recommend the 15" deep cabinets to

    1. Bring the contents closer to you
    2. Give you more depth for storage (those 3" add a surprising amount of storage)
    3. Provide better storage in the Dish Hutch.

  2. The dishes are stored in a 36" Dish Hutch that is next to the Dining area. In Layout #1, the Dish Hutch is very close to the DW, making it easy to unload the DW and put the dishes away.

    In Layout #2, b/c the sink is in the island, it's not as easy. That's one of the drawbacks of having your Cleanup Zone in the island. Another drawback is that your dirty dishes are all "front and center" - on display to everyone in the Great Room as well as the Dining area as well as in the faces of those sitting at the island.

  3. The refrigerator is a standard-depth refrigerator and has been recessed into the wall behind it a few inches. It has been moved so the island is no longer a barrier b/w the Prep and Cooking Zones and the Refrigerator.
  4. The island has seating on two sides. Two-sided seating is much "friendlier" and allows for easy conversation. When there is seating on only one side and there are more than one or two seats, people sit "like ducks in a row".
  5. Instead of a desk, there's a Message Center on the side wall. This location is in the direct path b/w the Garage entrance and the rest of the living area of the house. This is a much better location as you can drop off your keys and mail on the way in, charge your phone, have a centrally-located calendar and/or message board, hold the landline answering machine (if you have one), and pick up your keys & phone on the way out the door!

  6. There is also a Tea/Coffee Center near the Dining area and easily accessed from the Great Room. It's near a water source so there is easy access to water for filling a coffeemaker, etc.
  7. Since this is your retirement & "forever" home, the aisles are wider to accommodate aging in place. They're wide enough for a wheelchair for both forward/backward motion and for turning around. Let's hope you never need one, but planning ahead.... You could probably reduce them by 3"or so and still be wide enough, if you prefer. But, I'd only reduce the aisle if you go with something similar to Layout #1. In Layout #2, you want plenty of space b/w an open DW door and someone working at the counter across the aisle w/o conflict (or backing into an open DW door!)

[Click/Select a picture to see a bigger version]

Layout #1

RhettDrive's Kitchen #1 photo RhettDrive1_zps0c51eab7.jpg

Zone map

RhettDrive's Kitchen #1 - Zones photo RhettDrive1Zones_zps844232ef.jpg


Layout #2

RhettDrive's Kitchen #2 photo RhettDrive2_zpsf10d90e5.jpg

Zone map

RhettDrive's Kitchen #2 - Zones photo RhettDrive2Zones_zpsee332e0d.jpg

[Edited to add Message Center, Tea/Coffee Center, and aisle information.]

This post was edited by buehl on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 15:34


clipped on: 02.11.2014 at 09:02 pm    last updated on: 02.11.2014 at 09:02 pm

RE: pics of my prelim cabinet layout- help requested for proporti (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: buehl on 09.07.2013 at 06:25 pm in Kitchens Forum

Illinigirl...are you interested in comments regarding your layout in general? I'm asking b/c...

This kitchen is designed to be a one-person kitchen. It crams all three primary work zones into one small space w/in the Kitchen. The Prep and Cleanup Zones are directly across from the Cooking Zone. So, if someone is cooking or prepping, no one else will be able to help prep and cook and no one will be able to cleanup or put dishes away. I can't tell the aisle width b/w the range/cooktop wall and the island - it's either 40" or 49", I think. Neither one, though, gives you enough room for two people to be working in that aisle. We have a 46" aisle b/w the end of one of our peninsula legs and the outside counter (our Cleanup Zone). The DW extends into that aisle a bit and it's just enough room for someone to pass by when the DW door is open - but it's not enough to have someone working there. Yes, your DW is offset from your range/cooktop (a good thing), but it's still in that cooking space to some degree. If the aisle is 40", the DW door will be a barrier b/w the refrigerator and everything else. If dish storage is to the left of the range, then you will have another place with "conflict".

From what I see in the layouts, you have a lot of wasted counterspace on the left - meaning it has little use b/c it's too far from essential items like water and the range/cooktop/rangetop. There's also an excessive amount on either side of the range/cooktop - especially on the left. With no water source on that side, there wont' be much prepping. Most prepping will occur on the island (after moving all the dirty dishes out of the way) and you will then turn to cook. You definitely need some space (at least 24"), but if that's not your main prep area, you don't need as much as you have there. Note that "extra" counterspace isn't a bad thing, but if you are cramming your main work zones elsewhere while the "extra" goes unused (except as a drop zone or junk collector), then it's not a good use of counterspace.

The MW is located too far from a water source - water is used in most MW'd foods. This isn't a major issue, but I thought I'd mention it.

One of the disadvantages of having the cleanup sink in an island is that dirty dishes are "front and center" with the focus on them when looking into the kitchen from another room (e.g., what I assume is the Family/Living Room "below" the kitchen). Even a raised counter only partially hides them - and only from someone sitting down. Anyone standing will see them just fine.

The island is verging on being a barrier island b/w the sink and refrigerator - in particular b/c the DW is in the way. It is a barrier b/w the MW and sink.

The Prep and Cleanup Zones will collide with one another - especially since the counter is open on the other side of the DW and you will want to be careful not to push dishes off the end of the counter - and 25.5" isn't much if you have to worry about that constantly. You will be moving dirty dishes around to make room for prepping.

In general, you should try to separate the Prep and Cleanup Zones. Yes, this can be done with the sink, but only if there is enough room on each side for each function. In small kitchens, there are compromises, but your kitchen is far from small!

Your seating overhang on the island looks to be approx 9.5" deep - far, far too shallow! The minimum recommended overhang for counter-height seating (and I hope that's what you have), is 15". Even if you have bar-height, the minimum recommended overhang is 12".

60" - 1.5" counter overhang - 24"D cabinets - 24"D cabinets - 1" doors on back of second set of cabinets = 9.5"

If the cabinets on the back row are shallower than 24", then you may be OK - but they need to be no deeper than 18.5" deep (not counting the door)...

1.5" counter overhang + 24"D cabinets + 18"D cabinets + 1" doors on back of second set of cabinets = 44.5"
That leaves 15.5" for the seating overhang.

Counter-height vs bar-height in this instance...

  1. If you have a raised counter (bar-height) for seating:
    1. It will be almost impossible for you to wipe down the lower counter...unless you have incredibly long arms. I have very long arms and I can reach around 42" - most people's limit is 30". You will have approx 50" of depth on the lower level - not even I can reach that far to wipe the back!
    2. The workspace behind the sink is pretty much useless for anything except a dust collector and splashing (and you won't be able to dust or wipe up the splashes very easily). If dishes get pushed back into that area, it will be difficult to get to them.

  2. If it's all one level (counter-height), then you should be OK with being able to reach the entire surface for cleaning.

  3. Because of the big sink in the middle of the island, a good portion of the island won't be very useful for prepping - not just b/c of the dirty dishes and competing w/the Cleanup Zone, but also b/c the space behind the sink won't be very accessible - the sink is in the way.

How about something like this?

Note that multiple people can work in this kitchen at the same time. The focal point is the island + rangetop/hood - with no dirty dishes in the view. Since 70% or more time spent in the kitchen is spent prepping, you will be working on the island most of the time - with a nice big, clear space for prepping, baking projects, crafts, school projects, science fair projects, gift wrapping, etc. The refrigerator is close to the dining area as well as a straight shot from the Family/Living Room w/o having to cross any kitchen work zones and for ease of access to the refrigerator during meals. I recommend you panel the refrigerator.

 photo illinigirl1a.jpg

Zone map...note how there isn't any zone-crossing, the Cleanup Zone is separated from the Prep & Cooking Zones, and the primary Prep Zone is close to the Cooking Zone.

illinigirl's Kitchen #1 Zones photo illinigirl1zones.jpg

You have a generous size kitchen with good "bones" - I think you could do so much more with this kitchen! However, in the end, it's your kitchen and it's up to you!


clipped on: 02.11.2014 at 03:03 pm    last updated on: 02.11.2014 at 03:03 pm

pics of my prelim cabinet layout- help requested for proportions

posted by: illinigirl on 09.06.2013 at 01:20 pm in Kitchens Forum

Hi, we are getting closer to our final kitchen layout. The cabinets are custom so I can get any dimensions I want. This is what the cabinet designer sent me as her ideas. I'll include the general layout, then then the range wall and fridge wall and island proposals.

Here are my specific questions (and any other comments are certainly welcome):

What cabinet heights (uppers, stacked portion, and crown) should i ask for? As far as crown goes I have no idea what it should be, it looks like standard is 3-4" . Our style is simple and unfussy. The cabinet door style isn't chosen but it's likely to be some kind of recessed panel with perhaps beveled molding.

On the range wall would it look ok with the 27" cabinets switched with the 18" cabinets so the wider banks have the drawer dividers for my pots/pans? Or would it look better to have them divided equally so all drawer banks on that wall have the same width (except the under the rangetop drawers of course). They would each be around 22" wide if divided equally.

The designer is suggesting all drawer stacks stay consistent in height throughout the kitchen but I don't think this will be the most functional. For example along the range wall I am thinking 6/9/15 but I don't think I need 15" high drawers over on my fridge wall so I'd like those to be maybe 6/12/12 or maybe something else entirely after I fully evaluate my storage needs. Would it look bad if drawers on two different walls had different drawer heights (I'd keep the top drawer consistent at 6")

What is the ideal drawer height for tupperware type storage? 9"? or 12"

For those of you with pullout tray (cookie sheet, half sheet, etc) storage, how wide to go for those and do you have drawer dividers or does it work fine without dividers?

On my 4 drawer stack in the island I don't like how she has it and I may go for 6/6/6/12. Are there any other spots you think would benefit from a 4 drawer stack? I have a second set of drawings that have all the storage identified for each upper and lower cabinet. I may include that later but it's kind of busy to look at.

thanks for inputs!

[img] photo 090513kitchenlayout.jpg[/img]

[img] photo 090413rangewall.jpg[/img]

[img] photo 090413fridgewall.jpg[/img]

[img] photo 090413island.jpg[/img]


clipped on: 02.11.2014 at 01:47 pm    last updated on: 02.11.2014 at 01:47 pm

RE: TB's NH Kitchen Remodel (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: TB151 on 12.30.2013 at 01:10 pm in Kitchens Forum

So things have all progressed beyond our expectations! Our cabinet maker and countertop people have really exceeded our expectations. Here is a preview of the kitchen with my lovely wife preparing Christmas dinners at the island with our youngest son and the ever present German Shepherd Colonel. More to come!

 photo sarahxmas5_zps82f42ef4.jpg


clipped on: 02.10.2014 at 10:21 pm    last updated on: 02.10.2014 at 10:21 pm

RE: Slashing costs on cabinets, is this ok? (Follow-Up #80)

posted by: beekeeperswife on 01.11.2012 at 06:39 pm in Kitchens Forum

Beagles, I am getting tall cabinets with a nice hunky piece of trim up there. I showed him a picture and said the cabinets themselves don't have to touch the ceiling, but I don't want a space above it. KD1 told me that the frieze would cup and warp if he did that. Jason said he can do that. I was worried that the cabinets were going to be too tall with disproportionate moulding on top.

Here's the photos of the crown and frieze I'm talking about.


I sent him an email telling him to contact the builder, and I hope he won't be offended if I end up going with stock cabinets for the vanities in order to keep things under control cost-wise. He sent back another option for vanity cabinets. But I think I can get them for about 1/2 of his lower line. I told him I'd rather put any extra funds towards upgrading things in the kitchen, like more glass cabinets.


clipped on: 02.10.2014 at 04:37 pm    last updated on: 02.10.2014 at 04:37 pm

RE: what color trim color goes with white dove kitchen cabinets (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: willtv on 03.30.2012 at 01:12 pm in Kitchens Forum

Our cabinets are BM Gardenia, a very warm white.
We matched the trim to the cabs, including the baseboards.
For the ceiling, we went with BM ceiling white, whatever that is.
For us it worked out well.
The business of "layering whites" has worked out well for many posters on this site.
Personally, I think, that except for the ceiling, as long as there is some separation between the whites, you can have almost as many shades as you like.
Like you, we also went with a grey-ish color for the walls.
Ours is a 50/50 mix of BM Metallic Silver and Pidgeon Grey.
If you're looking for a light grey, look at BM Metallic Silver.
It was too light for us, but it may work for you.
Also, keep in mind that paint is the easiest and least expensive thing to change.
Here's a shot of our kitchen and below it, a link to the completed kitchen slideshow.

Here is a link that might be useful: Completed Kitchen


clipped on: 02.10.2014 at 11:30 am    last updated on: 02.10.2014 at 11:30 am

RE: I'm back - 1st draft of our houseplan and kitchen input pleas (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: angela12345 on 07.06.2013 at 11:43 pm in Kitchens Forum

I haven't read any of the comments, but just one quick response ... Since this is new construction, plan a way for your fridge to be installed recessed by 6". That way you can use a standard size fridge, which is quite a bit less expensive, and have it look counter depth.


clipped on: 02.09.2014 at 11:50 am    last updated on: 02.09.2014 at 11:50 am

RE: Show me how you finished the top of your kitchen cabinets Ple (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: hollysprings on 10.20.2013 at 09:42 am in Kitchens Forum

First of all, I wouldn't lower the cabinets. Cabinets are made to work as a system, and if you lower the wall cabinets, they won't align with the cabinet over the refrigerator or any other tall elements in the room.

Second, with 9' ceilings, if you use 42" cabinets, you're left with 12" for crown molding, which can be as expensive (If not more) as just stacking cabinets above.

Third, stacked cabinets provide storage. Maybe not storage that you can access every day, but it's there.

Fourth, many companies provide prestacked cabinets as one piece units that are less costly than stacking them yourself.

48" of cabinets plus 6" of molding is a perfect proportion for a 108" ceiling. And you won't have to dust. Whether or not you do 30" cabinets with 18" above or 33" cabinets with 15" above, or the prestacked, stacked IS the best choice for 108" ceilings.


clipped on: 02.08.2014 at 06:24 pm    last updated on: 02.08.2014 at 06:25 pm

RE: Crown build up to 9" ceiling (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: TFCwifey on 03.14.2013 at 09:03 pm in Kitchens Forum

We just had our cabinets installed this week with 12" stacked crown molding. We have 9' ceilings. I was Soooo nervous to do it this way but I am loving the finished product. We are so happy we did it!! I can ask the kitchen installers exactly what they into archive this look if u like it. Let me know.


clipped on: 02.08.2014 at 05:23 pm    last updated on: 02.08.2014 at 05:23 pm

RE: 9' ceilings, cabinets to ceiling - cabinet height? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: taggie on 02.19.2013 at 07:56 pm in Kitchens Forum

Mine are 30" + 14" stacked for a total of 44", but we started 20" above the countertops and not the more usual 18".

Our measurements are 36" base + 20" backsplash + 44" uppers + 4" fascia + 5" crown. I know that seems like an extra inch in total but the 5" crown gets angled so it's less tall after installation. Total actual fascia+crown height after installation is 8". (I hope that makes sense -- it sounded clearer in my head!!)

 photo DSCN3904-2.jpg

 photo CopyofDSCN3904_zps42810952.jpg


clipped on: 02.08.2014 at 04:50 pm    last updated on: 02.08.2014 at 04:50 pm

RE: Kitchen cabinets to the ceiling? (Follow-Up #12)

posted by: francoise47 on 10.23.2011 at 08:50 am in Kitchens Forum

When you flip through magazines and look at kitchen pictures online do you find yourself gravitating to pictures of cabinets that go all the way to the ceiling? It is a matter of personal choice.

Like many on GW, I like the look of cabinets to the ceiling.
There are some kitchens in which it wouldn't be my choice.
My default setting would be to embrace cabinets to the ceiling.

We have 9 foot ceilings and the cabinets go all the way to the ceiling.

We have:
6 inches for crown
16 inches for top stacked cabinet
32 inches for cabinet on bottom of stack

The upper cabinets are great for rarely used items and overflow.
We do have to stand on a step stool to reach them.

New kitchen


clipped on: 02.08.2014 at 03:43 pm    last updated on: 02.08.2014 at 03:43 pm

RE: Do your kitchen cabinets go all the way to the ceiling? (Follow-Up #44)

posted by: taggie on 11.22.2013 at 11:46 am in Kitchens Forum

the KD said he will install a "cabinet board" slightly over the face of the cabinet that will extend to almost the ceiling. I suppose the bottom edge of the board will have a sculpted edge. then he will use 4" crown molding at top. He also wanted to install small trim mid way up to "break up the blandness of the panel to ceiling" as he put it. ...
Has anyone seen this ? If so, can you post a close up picture ?

It sounds somewhat similar to what we did with the 9" space above our cabs ... fascia with rope trim partway up, then the molding to ceiling. These pics might help you with the idea, although your taste may run more simply vs the rope molding (personally I love it and it was one of my must haves :))

 photo DSCN3904_zps6ea1c6f8.jpg

 photo DSCN3913_zps0b191d8b.jpg

 photo ropemolding.jpg


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RE: Do your kitchen cabinets go all the way to the ceiling? (Follow-Up #17)

posted by: mairin on 02.09.2010 at 03:31 pm in Kitchens Forum

we have a 9ft ceiling


clipped on: 02.08.2014 at 03:32 pm    last updated on: 02.08.2014 at 03:32 pm

Best advice from this forum

posted by: justadncr on 07.14.2007 at 08:29 pm in Kitchens Forum

I was just thinking about what all I have learned from this forum and was trying to think of what was the most valuable advice.

I really think it was the advice to actually lay the kitchen out on the ground outside with all the measurements and walk around it to see if it felt right.
For me it was much better than plans on paper. I took my measurements and scraps of wood and laid them out in the various plans I had come up with.

My husband thought I was crazy standing out there pretending I was cooking and getting stuff out of the frig and such.

Of course I learned many, many more things but this helped the most.
What about you all?


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RE: Slate or slate look-a-like on kitchen floor (Follow-Up #24)

posted by: oofasis on 11.13.2008 at 11:11 pm in Kitchens Forum

We used a laminate, Touraine Slate by Berry Floors. It's a wonderfully textured charcoal color. I couldn't be happier, and so proud when everyone compliments us on it.



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RE: Why Do People Put Outlets in the Backsplash? (Follow-Up #39)

posted by: beaglesdoitbetter on 11.16.2012 at 02:20 am in Kitchens Forum

I am one who was absolutely fanatical about no visible outlets. We just put boxes under our cabinets because I didn't feel like paying for plugmold and I will never ever have appliances out on my counter (we have an appliance cabinet, they are in there).

Here are our boxes under our cabinets:

In areas where there were no upper cabinets, I also hid outlets inside of side panels of adjacent cabinets. The cover is held on w/ a magnet and from a distance, you really cannot see that the outlets are there:



We did run plugmold strips under our island because people may plug in laptops and stuff when sitting at the island:


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RE: Why Do People Put Outlets in the Backsplash? (Follow-Up #29)

posted by: SK97232 on 11.15.2012 at 08:19 pm in Kitchens Forum

Some of these options are quite nice. Thanks for the ideas.

I guess I hadn't realized that it's unusual that I don't leave appliances out on my counter. I have an appliance bay to tuck them into so my counters are usually clear and you don't see cords snaking up to the cabinets most of the time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Laurelhurst Craftsman Kitchen Posts


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RE: Favorite feature in your kitchen? (Follow-Up #31)

posted by: joshct on 11.21.2010 at 05:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

We just finished ours too. I need to take and post some pictures. I love the whole kitchen, I am amazed that in the same space we have so much more open space, storage, light, and function. I love the light we get from our large, East facing window over the sink, which throws over most of the prep area and stove. It makes it a bit tricky to see the size of the flame on the stove in the morning, though!

We also had a large island which I hated! It had our sink and dishwasher in it, but no dish storage, so everything needed to be carried across the kitchen to put away, and the island just took up so much space in the kitchen that we could not fit a table anywhere to eat at. I prefer a regular kitchen table, where I can eat, read the paper, work on long cooking prep projects in a seated position, etc. We never liked the bar height seating at our island.


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Planning my cabs - what's your favorite cabinet feature?

posted by: try_hard on 11.05.2007 at 02:32 pm in Kitchens Forum

I am having a home custom-built. This week we'll meet with a representative from the cabinet maker to select our cabinets for the kitchen, bathrooms, butler's pantry, plus shelving/drawers for closets, mud room, and pantry.

I've reviewed many kitchen design books at the library and I'm finding there are alot of great things people can do with cabinets.

I would love to hear about your favorite (or least favorite) features of your cabinets. Anything you recommend other people do (or not do)?



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Post pics of your favorite feature of your cabinets please!

posted by: htracey on 08.22.2011 at 12:57 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm meeting with my cabinet maker today after work. I have lots of ideas, but I'm not the greatest at expressing myself so pictures are worth 1003 words.

I already have lots of clippings, but I thought if anybody had a specific design feature of their cabs that they love they wanted to recommend then I would be grateful!

I've got a small kitchen so I'm particulary looking for storage ideas. Another feature is that I have a vintage cast iron, wall hung farmhouse sink (not the undermount type), so ideas on how to work these onto a sink base would be great!


clipped on: 02.07.2014 at 11:19 pm    last updated on: 02.07.2014 at 11:20 pm

Almost Finished- Light and Dark Kitchen with White Alaska Granite

posted by: brianadarnell on 12.03.2011 at 10:25 am in Kitchens Forum

First of all, thank you to everyone who contributed so much to this kitchen. I learned so much and made so many wise decisions because of information I gained on this site. I found this site just as our new build construction began and was able to utilize all of the wonderful information into my kitchen design for function, even though I already knew exactly how I wanted the kitchen to look.

We ended up completing the house project ourselves so finalizing the kitchen and getting settled has taken some time. Hosting Thanksgiving for 14 was a major catalyst in the effort to at least get our main floor permanently decorated. Now the only thing missing is the barstools!

from the great room
Side by Side Refrigerator- Love it. I hated the previous french door refrigerator we had. So happy to go to the side by side.
Angled Corner cabinet- I know these aren't popular, but the storage is fabulous for all of our stemware.
Cabinet on the back of the island- its amazing how much fits under there!
Microwave cabinet- Since we don't use the microwave that often, I'm glad we hid it. With our open floor plan, I didn't want it visible from the great room and dining room except when in use.
5 Piece Drawer Heads- these were an upgrade, but I love the way they look.
Drawers, Drawers, Drawers- Love them! I had a lot of drawers in our old house and went with all drawers this time except for the sink base and the corner susan.
Pantry- Custom designed the shelf layout.
Lower Corner Cabinet-
Dining Room Table- just off the kitchen. Thanks for your help on selecting the table. It was delivered just a few days before Thanksgiving. It has one more leaf that we take out for everyday use.

Some details:
Kitchenaid Appliances-
Refrigerator: KSC525MVMK
Wine Cooler: KURG24RWBS
Dishwasher:KUDE40FXSS panel ready
Range: KDRS467VSS
Lights: International Lighting 23341057 London Mist Four Light Seedy Glass Bell Pendant
Backsplash- Horus Cristalli Crackle Subway in Bianco
Knobs and Pulls: Alno Creative Inc knobs:ALN56206 1 1/4" / pulls 3 1/2" cup pulls solid brass in barcelona finish ALN56510
Faucet- Moen Brantford in Stainless
Disposal- Insinkerator Evolution Series
Sink- Blanco Silgranit in Biscuit with Offset drain Diamond Single Basin #440196
Granite- White Alaska/Delicatus
Cabinets- Brookhaven in Antique White for Perimeter and Matte Brown with black glaze for the island. Door style is edgemount recessed
Floors- 5" wide white oak quartersawn vertical grain with glitza (no stain)


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RE: Show me your subway tile! (Follow-Up #19)

posted by: kitchenaddict on 03.21.2012 at 10:04 am in Kitchens Forum

Hi CKGM...

I never get tired of seeing subway tiled backsplashsssssss!! So I am REALLY enjoying EVERYONES pictures....Keep 'em coming!

My Crema Marfil Tumbled Marble 2x4 brick mesh



Alaskan white granite
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RE: Show me your subway tile! (Follow-Up #11)

posted by: fivefootzero on 03.21.2012 at 08:25 am in Kitchens Forum

OK, we did carrera marble subways from Home Depot. Insanely inexpensive.



clipped on: 02.07.2014 at 05:38 pm    last updated on: 02.07.2014 at 05:39 pm

Finished pics - Creamy white, stained island

posted by: marmoreus on 01.25.2011 at 11:04 pm in Kitchens Forum

This is long overdue (we finished at the end of last August), but I wanted to thank all you Kitchen forum members for the great help. Thank you, thank you!!! I've really appreciated all the great information on this site. It has been such a helpful resource as we built a house for the first time.

On to the pictures.







So far the kitchen is working out really well for us. Other than not loving the performance of my wall oven, I am happy with how it all turned out.

The details:

Perimeter cabinets: Decora (Chantille finish on maple)
Island cabinets: Sorrento (Hermosa finish on alder)
Backsplash: Walker Zanger Gramercy Park (Heirloom White and Pipe Smoke)
Granite on perimeter: Antiqued Nordic Black (love this!)
Granite on Island: Alaskan White
Pendant lights: Schoolhouse Electric
Knobs & pulls: Amerock Highland Ridge
Barstools: Restoration Hardware (bought during Friends & Family sale--20% off--yay!)
Wall color: BM Revere Pewter
Flooring: walnut w/ Waterlox finish
Sink: Shaw's farmhouse sink
Sink faucet/soap dispenser: Danze Opulence
Range: NXR
Wall oven: Kitchenaid
Fridge: Bosch
Dishwasher: paneled Bosch
Micro: cheapo GE

Thanks again!


clipped on: 02.07.2014 at 08:55 am    last updated on: 02.07.2014 at 08:55 am

RE: Did you mix quartz countertop with granite? (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: hostagrams on 03.09.2010 at 10:36 pm in Kitchens Forum

Michelle, I've posted these photos so many times before that I'm embarrassed to do it again! But since you asked, and since I mixed granite and quartz . . . I'll risk giving people terminal boredom

My island is Venetzian Polo, which is a rather highly textured granite. The perimeter is Zodiaq Eclipse Blue. We haven't settled on the backsplash, but the samples photo shows two things we're considering.

I love my choices. I do almost all prep on the perimeter countertops, and for me, the quartz is absolutely carefree. The only thing I'm careful of with it is pots just off the stove. The quartz cleans like a dream. The island is used for serving -- the texture makes it not good for things like rolling cookies or kneading bread (or writing lists!) but I love the texture so for me, it was a good choice.

For some reason, the floor shows up as very tan in this photo . . . IRL, the grey is much more apparent.
Here are the samples: Photobucket
The island and server wall
Server Wall & Kids' end of island


clipped on: 02.06.2014 at 11:52 pm    last updated on: 02.06.2014 at 11:52 pm

RE: Would not having a window in the master bathroom a deal break (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: bevangel on 04.22.2013 at 05:01 pm in Building a Home Forum

Not having a window in the master bath would probably not be a total deal breaker if I were looking to buy a home and I liked the rest of the house. But it would be a negative. I'm one of those people who loves natural light - the more the better. Solartubes and mirrors can certainly help brighten up an interior bathroom though so if that is your only option, then go for it. But, if possible, I still would want a window.

Is the problem that the masterbath needs to go on the interior of the house where cannot have an exterior wall? Or, is it simply going to be too small to have space for a window? Or is the problem that the masterbath will be on an exterior wall where the only view would be the side of a neighbor's house and neighbors might be able to look in?

If the latter, I would probably still include a window but would glaze it with a translucent or semi-opaque glass. Maybe a gorgeous stained glass window over the bathtub?

If the problem is that the bath is going to be rather small so there is really no room for a window, consider putting transom windows above the vanities or above other fixtures. In the image below, I would probably have set the transoms higher so that the mirrors could be taller - but this gives you the idea....

And, if the masterbath will not have any exterior walls, I have seen houses where transom windows or a stained glass window were put into the wall between the masterbath and masterbedroom to very good effect. Or opaque transom windows were set high on a wall leading to a hallway. Properly done this can totally disguise the fact that the bathroom has no windows to the outside. In the image below, the bathroom actually has a window to the outside but it also has transoms above the vanities that look out into the masterbedroom.

Here's another with translucent windows between bath and hallway...

just some ideas


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Double wall oven/cooktop or range and wall oven?

posted by: summerbabies on 02.17.2011 at 11:56 pm in Appliances Forum

I've plowed through a ton of informative posts on here, and I noticed several posts that said that double wall ovens may not be as reliable as a single. We are finally remodeling and getting RID of the appliances that came with the house!

We are running a gas line (yippeee!) so that I can have a gas cooktop or range. I don't have the room for a range with a double oven, but I do want two ovens, and 30", too. My current one is 26" and my big roasting pan doesn't fit in it.

My options are: 1) 36" slide-in gas range with oven, over the range MW for venting (KitchenAid makes a 36" MW) and wall oven in cabinet or the island

2) Cooktop set into counter with double pot drawers and either undercabinet hood or MW (don't have wall space to sacrifice for vent hood) (Current downdraft cooktop is in island, don't want another downdraft) and double wall oven.

I don't bake cakes or cookies very often, but I roast, broil, braise, and bake macaroni and cheese or casseroles.

I was looking at the Bosch 800 series, the Kenmore Pro double oven, and various ranges (KA has a great one for about $5800, not sure I want to spend that, have to wait for cabinet bids) and cooktops...still haven't decided on a brand, but if anyone can help me decide decisively re range and single or cooktop and double, I will be thrilled! Upper mid-range recommendations also greatly appreciated, too.

Thank you! (If there is already a thread here on this topic that you know of, please post the link.)


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Novice cook needs help picking stove please

posted by: chloenkitty on 12.02.2013 at 08:48 pm in Appliances Forum

Hello everyone. Help!!!!!, I cannot cook and need a stove and don't know a lot about them.

My husband and I are building a home and I want/need to get better at cooking since we will no longer be a stones throw away from restaurants. Also, I should know how to cook, I just really dislike it, at least I love to clean :). I do like things to look nice, so I like the look of an industrial stove in stainless and do not like a lot of black on front or top of stove. Current stove is gas with all black on top and it makes me crazy cleaning it. From what catches my eye, of course it's the expensive stoves like viking and wolf. The ge cafe series looks nice, but I've read negatives too. The house plans call for a regular oven (gas) that I guess would be slide in and a wall oven with microwave on top. How silly to have all those when I can't cook, but again, want to learn. I guess it's nice for holidays. I do not understand convection, didn't know what dual fuel was, etc., so as you can see, I'm lost. Considering the look I like and that I am totally clueless, is there anyone who would be willing to have pity on me lol and maybe lead me in the right direction of what I should get and explain what I need in a way I'd understand it since I don't know a lot of the terms used for ovens, etc. I don't want to just go to a store and say I need a gas oven as this is the first time in a newly built home and we are trying to make it nice. I'd truly appreciate it very much. Thank you.


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Almost Finished Pics - long time coming...

posted by: aokat15 on 02.09.2012 at 02:59 pm in Kitchens Forum

I'm still waiting to finish up some small details - such as having my potfiller installed - but I thought I'd post my almost finished pics. I've posted some pics along the way, but here is where we're at now. It's been almost 2 years since we purchased our home and we are slowly coming to the end of a long whole house renovation and addition. Gardenweb has been an amazing source for inspiration and guidance - thanks for all of your help along the way. Let me know if you want any info.

To the right of my refrigerator is an oversized walk-in pantry. There are temporary shelves in there now... someday soon we'll have cabinets and nice shelving and I'll share those pics as well :)


clipped on: 01.29.2014 at 10:02 am    last updated on: 01.29.2014 at 10:02 am

Things you hate about your current house

posted by: MrsPete on 11.02.2013 at 06:44 pm in Building a Home Forum

I was thinking today about how annoying my kitchen lights are: I have one light switch, and it turns on BOTH the light over the peninsula AND the light over the breakfast table, which is sometimes okay, other times annoying to the people in the adjacent family room. It would be much better if these two light switches were separate . . . and I bet it would've cost less than $5 to have had separate switches when the house was built.

A similar problem: My front door has a lite to the side, so there's no space for a light switch. You have to walk in the door and reach behind to the other wall to turn on the entryway light.

I'm on a rampage with light switches tonight, so I'll add one more: When you walk in my main family entrance, you can't turn on a light at all. You must traverse the length of the room to reach the light switch. Why? Because this room was meant to be a garage, but instead it was enclosed at the time the house was built . . . but the light switches were not altered from the original plan -- they were left just as they would've been, had this room remained a garage.

And to get away from light switches: In my girls' bathroom, the faucet seems "under-sized". It doesn't seem to stick out far enough over the sink. That might be personal opinion.

So, here's the question: What are the piddly little annoying things about your house? Not big things like too much /too little square footage. Things people could learn to live with, but don't have to. Things that could so easily have been avoided . . . with just a bit of planning.


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RE: Is Kashmir White a granite? Stain resistant? (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: alku05 on 01.02.2008 at 07:14 pm in Kitchens Forum

Don't give up so easily stephand! Our resined andromeda white countertops are virtually bulletproof. The morning after our holiday cocktail party, all the red wine, cranberry juice and marachino cherry splatters wiped right off. It's just a matter of looking/asking for slabs that are resined. We tested three white granites, two of which were resined, the third was not. The resined ones were stainproof, and the third, well, was not.

Here is a link that might be useful: Our andromeda white countertops


resined granite
clipped on: 01.28.2014 at 03:48 pm    last updated on: 01.28.2014 at 03:49 pm

Need countertop opinions...white granites vs. caesarstone

posted by: stacylh on 01.22.2013 at 12:15 am in Kitchens Forum

I am seriously in lust with carrara marble, but the maintenance and etching issues don't make it a feasible choice. However, 90% of the kitchens that I've "ideabooked" on houzz feature the marble.

My dream kitchen would be similar to this one:

Ironically, this kitchen does not have carrara marble, but has Caesarstone Misty Carrera on the perimeter cabinets.

The current plans include:
*White cabinets (either BM Dove White or Chantilly Lace); undecided whether the island will be dark stained or painted white
*Medium stained 4" white oak flooring
*Light gray walls (with blue undertones/possibly BM Stonington Gray)
*Whitish or grayish blue backsplash (subway tile/marble tile)

I would love opinions regarding a caesarstone countertop vs. white granites, specifically:

*Bianco Romano
*Kashmir White
*White River

I believe the Caesarstone will be quite a bit more expensive than these granite options, but do you think it's possible to pull off the kitchen look I'm wanting with any of these stones?


P.S. I would love to see pics of your white cabs with any of these granites or caesarstone. I visited over 10 LARGE granite yards today and I am royally confused because the shading was so varied from one place to the other on the same granite.


clipped on: 01.28.2014 at 03:36 pm    last updated on: 01.28.2014 at 03:36 pm

RE: Looking for best pots and pans for cooking with gas (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: ctycdm on 08.06.2013 at 09:35 pm in Appliances Forum

I use a variety of different pieces on my Bluestar. As wekick says, different jobs, different tools. I use my old Revere Ware copper bottoms that work fine for sauces, steaming, boiling, and soups. I have a couple vintage Griswold cast iron skillets that can't be beat for frying and searing, a Staub grill pan, along with a vintage cast iron dutch oven that rivals any slow cooker made:). The only non stick I own is a Scanpan, that I use only for omelettes, it is the best non stick pan I've used, and accepts metal utensils! I also have an All Clad stainless skillet that I sautee in, and an All Clad stainless wok, but honestly the old carbon steel wok I had at about one tenth the price worked equally as well...


clipped on: 01.18.2014 at 04:56 pm    last updated on: 01.18.2014 at 04:56 pm