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RE: looking for strong fragrance in garden (Follow-Up #10)

posted by: lenten_rose on 09.06.2005 at 12:19 pm in Midwest Gardening Forum

Sense of smell varies so much from person to person, that I hesitate to tell you what will have the desired olfactory effect. However, here's a few possibilities:

TREES
Jap. Styrax, Fringe tree, Sourwood (oxydendrum), Sweetbay Magnolia among others

SHRUBS
Summersweet (Ruby Spice and sixteen candles are good varieties) comparatively long bloom period, for a shrub, that is. Also, mockorange (as mentioned), some roses (of course), many of the spring blooming viburnums--burkwoodii, judii, carlesii. I especially like "Eskimo" good, glossy foliage which is semi-evergreen here on the 5b/6a border. Winter honeysuckle, (lonicera fragrantissima). Elderberry (the species more than cultivars--no surprise)

PERENNIALS
Some peonies, iris, and hosta, phlox, as mentioned. Also, agastache, if you don't require sweet fragrance. Massed groundcovers, sweet woodruff, lily-of-the-valley, and most thymes especially if trod upon. Taller growers, at nose level have obvious advatages. For instance, this year my autumn clematis is quite fragrant. However, I can remember telling friends that it wasn't, about 4 years ago. Was it the plant, the climate, or my nose that year? I don't know. Year after year, the variables hang on a mobile. I have half a dozen lavenders, some years they seem quite fragrant, other years,... not so much. And it is ALWAYS hot and humid here in the summer. That, alas, does not vary.

TROPICALS/ ANNUALS
Most jasmines, some oleanders, scented geraniums, nemesias, baby's breath, sweet alyssum, pansies. Needless to say, the small ones need to be massed.

Again, if you don't limit your choices to sweet fragrances, your options mutiple. What smell is more stimulating to a gardener, then that promising fragrance of the soil first waking up in the spring. If one has grown up in the Midwest then the smell of cut grass means home. And to me, due to long association, my heart swing dances to the first, deep skunky scent of fritaleria imperialis lutea, which heralds the main spring bulb season, each and every year. Or, even more fragrant, the smell of a large labrador whose been enjoying a romp in the muddy puddle euphemistically called "the pond", combined with the aged essence of a dead rabbit that's been buried, rediscovered, and rehidden, 5 or 6 times. Now, there's an unforgettable garden fragrance.
Okay, enough unnecessary description. Good luck with your fragrant garden!


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clipped on: 12.08.2013 at 12:52 pm    last updated on: 12.08.2013 at 12:52 pm

RE: looking for strong fragrance in garden (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: pitimpinai on 08.31.2005 at 02:29 pm in Midwest Gardening Forum

Heat and humidity plays a vital role in fragrance. On some plants you can barely smell them normally, but when heat and humidity is just right, the fragrance can be quite intoxicating.
Here are what I have that smell very good without sticking my nose next to them:

-Narcissus 'Geranium', 'Sir Winston Churchill','Trevithian' & 'Curlew'
-Convallaria majalis - lily of the valley
-Lilac
-Honeysuckle
-Lily regale & regale album
-Trumpet, oriental and orientpet lilies
-Primrose - can barely smell it if you bury your nose in it, but smells delightful yards away downwind.
-Rose 'Tiffany', 'Heritage', 'Sharifa Asma' & 'Pink Peace'
-Buddleia locinch - lost this one last winter
-Mockorange
-Clematis montana odorata
-Garden Phlox
-Hosta plantaginea

Jasmin sambac is my most favorite fragrant flower but I don�t have enough light indoors to keep it in bloom. I am also waiting for my tuber roses to bloom.

Here�s my Hosta plantaginea:

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

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clipped on: 12.08.2013 at 12:49 pm    last updated on: 12.08.2013 at 12:50 pm

RE: Abraham Darby or A Shropshire Lad? (Follow-Up #27)

posted by: morrisnoor on 12.24.2007 at 05:28 am in Antique Roses Forum

Hi Ingrid,
here's the list of my top 5 Austin's:

'Abraham Darby': a must to have. Powerful, fruity strong scent, a deliciuos colour mix, great vigour, everblooming.
'Teasing Georgia': simply the best of all yellow Austins. Elegant, arching growth, flowers profusely in cluster of three to seven large flowers, in an exquisite blend of pastel yellows, from lemony cream to light apricot. A delightful, tea-scented Rose who can really touch your soul.
'St. Swithun': the spring flush in this Rose is amazing, the arching (pegged down) bush covered with huge flowers smelling myrrh. Beautiful foliage, light green and always looking healty and lush. The flowers change their shape from spring to fall, but always gorgeous. Don't care about heat.
'Alnwick Castle': love, love, love everything on this Rose: the compact, dense growth, the big cupped flowers in the 'Brother Cadfael' way, with centers filled with tiny petals. The scent is overwhelming, reminds me raspberry candies :o) Good grey-green foliage. Constant and abundant flowering, and vigorous but not rampant growth.
'Swan': not a wide known Rose, sometimes referred as the "white counterpart" of 'Claire Rose', but definitely better in my opinion. Vigorous, lushy erect growth, full of light green foliage. Almost thornless, light green canes. The buds are exquisite, urn-shaped, opens slowly in full imbricated rosettes, ivory white flushed with buff in their centers. The form reminds me 'Sombreuil/Colonial White'. The flowers are very heat resistant and also very long lived: they opens well all year round. The fragrance is moderate, but good.

The top 10 also include:
'Golden Celebration'
'Happy Child'
'The Reeve'
'William Shakespeare' / 'WS 2000'
'Heritage'

Ciao!
Maurizio

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Top 10 DA's
clipped on: 07.31.2013 at 11:25 pm    last updated on: 07.31.2013 at 11:25 pm

RE: Abraham Darby or A Shropshire Lad? (Follow-Up #14)

posted by: morrisnoor on 12.21.2007 at 04:32 am in Antique Roses Forum

Hi Patrick!
A Shropshire Lad has been one of my first English Roses, bought from David Austin Roses in 1996/7 (firts Austin's Catalogue in italian). The following spring, I was totally amazed by the beauty of the flowers: simply gorgeous. But sadly, no more than 5 minutes of glory all the year round. The flowers are not only once per year, but also very short-lived (even less than 'Heritage'!.... really minutes, not hours or days)
I didn't answer your question first, 'cause I was sure it could be a climate problem, thinking it could be better in a cooler "english" climate. How a surprise to read in Paul, Susan and Olga's posts, the same things I would write about!

Abraham Darby is actually better. Not only better than ASL, but better than many many other ER ever. I've grown about 75 different English Roses varieties in ten years, and AD is still in the top 5!

Ciao! ... e bentornato :o)
Maurizio

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clipped on: 07.31.2013 at 11:16 pm    last updated on: 07.31.2013 at 11:17 pm

RE: Soil Test (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: gardengal48 on 07.24.2013 at 02:41 pm in Soil Forum

As a horticultural consultant and soil educator, I would advise you not to waste your money on home test kits. With the possible exception of pH testing, home testing kits simply do not provide accurate information. Not only that, they provide no interpretation of the results nor recommendations for amending.

There are literally thousands of soil testing labs in the country. Originally, land grant universities - those that sponsor the extension services - provided free soil testing. Many are no longer able to provide this service but it never hurts to check.

If you are in Texas, TAMU has an excellent soil testing lab: http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/

Otherwise, check out the attached link. The University of Mass is also highly recommended. There is no problem about going out of state for testing.........IOW, the lab does not have to be local to provide quality information. It is important to contact them before you send, either by phone or reviewing their website, as different labs have different requirements for obtaining the soil samples.

Here is a link that might be useful: soil testing labs

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clipped on: 07.27.2013 at 10:13 am    last updated on: 07.27.2013 at 10:13 am

RE: Sceptre d'Isle is never without a flower! (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: Strawberryhill on 07.29.2012 at 12:33 pm in Antique Roses Forum

You are right, ilovemyroses. I look out my window: Scepter d'Isle has 2 blooms and countless buds. Blooms last 3 days in the vase, not bad. Scepter d'Isle is very productive like Evelyn in my alkaline soil, 90-100 degrees summer heat.

The stingy bloomers in my alkaline soil are: Eglantyne, Charles Darwin, and Crown Princess Mag. They are only 3 months-old own-roots, hopefully they improve next year. My problem with all Austins in summer heat are: fading colors to either dinky-pink or dirty-white, scents that go away, octopus canes that need constant trimming, and thistles WAY UP TO the flower that prick me badly when I dead-head or cut for the vase.

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clipped on: 07.26.2013 at 09:40 am    last updated on: 07.26.2013 at 09:40 am

Update on using cornmeal to prevent blackspot

posted by: Nandina on 04.21.2002 at 08:30 pm in Garden Experiments Forum

All the rose growers report having success warding off black spot by sprinkling cornmeal once a month on the ground around roses. So, I decided to try it this year. To date all my roses here in the south are free of black spot....except for one which has never shown any sign of blackspot over the past five years until now. I am mystified by that!

And I decided to also try the cornmeal sprinkled around my container grown tomatoes to see if it would stop the tomato fungus problems. Usually by this time of the year the bottom stems have browned and are falling off. I wish you could see the tomatoes. Not a sign of fungus problems. Plants are fully branched and touching the soil. And they are a vivid healthy dark green. I attribute this to my second experiment. Once a month I mix 2 tablespoons of old-fashioned blackstrap molasses into a gallon of water and water the tomatoes with this. Our tomato season ends June 21st here because of the heat. It will be interesting to see how well these tomao plants grow through the rest of the season.

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clipped on: 07.26.2013 at 02:19 am    last updated on: 07.26.2013 at 02:19 am

RE: How Many "Non-Performers" Does Your Garden Have? (Follow-Up #48)

posted by: Strawberryhill on 12.05.2012 at 12:38 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Thank you, ispahan, for the info. on Jude does well in sandy, alkaline soil. Rugosa, known as "beach sand", does well for sandy soil but it hates my clay soil. Eglantyne has Rugosa heritage and does well GRAFTED for Robert Neil in his sandy and alkaline soil. As OWN-ROOT some roses are so wimpy that it takes a sandy soil to thrive ... that's why folks root cuttings in sand.

Knock-outs bloom well in wet clay, but NOT as drought-tolerant as Kordes Flower Carpet landscape roses.

I did some research this morning as to what fertilizer is best for BIGGEST ROOT GROWTH. It's high-phosphorus SOLUBLE fertilizer. The solid granular fertilizer is useless in alkaline condition, since phosphorus is tied up with calcium and magnesium at pH above 7 (per University of Colorado Extension info.) Also water-treatment plants add lime into tap water. Lime drives down both phosphorus and potassium .... so you'll get the non-blooming weak octopussy Austin canes if your water is alkaline.

I'm annoyed that I can't find the ingredients for MiracleGro Bloom Booster, even on their website. But Schultz Bloom Plus at 10-60-10, highest in phosphorus with chelated iron, listed their ingredients with potassium phosphate (recommended for low-salt index). Schultz is sold at Menards, or can be ordered on-line pretty cheap. Below is a link to Schultz SOLUBLE high phosphorus fertilizer for biggest root growth and most blooms.

High Phosphorus Soluble fertilizer is also used for seed starter and transplant, it promotes root growth. Alkaline tap water has 3 faults: 1) rose roots better in acidic water, pH of rain water is 5.6 2) water-treatment plant adds lime to tap water so pipes won't corrode ... lime is known to drive down phosphorus, necessary for root and bloom production 3) Lime also drives down potassium, necessary for strong stem and fight diseases, so one gets weak-neck & diseased plants.

My roses bloomm best with rain water in spring, but become non-blooming weak-neck fools with tap water in summer. See link below for high-phosphorus Schultz Soluble Fertilizer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Schultz Bloom Plus SOLUBLE fertilizer

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clipped on: 07.26.2013 at 01:30 am    last updated on: 07.26.2013 at 01:31 am

RE: Decisions Decisions (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: Strawberryhill on 08.01.2012 at 09:37 am in Antique Roses Forum

Hi Kippy:

I have 15 Austins, most of them I want to get rid of (thorns, octopus canes, water-hogs, scents that go away in dry and warm temp.) EXCEPT for the ones that give lots of FRAGRANT blooms for cut-flowers:

1) Radio Times - DON'T GET THIS ONE, it's 3' x 3' as own root in my zone 5a, but if grafted in a warm zone it can get 6' x 6', killer-prickly here. I grow this to get prickly branches to chop off, and put them as armor around the bushes that need protection from bunnies.

2) Golden Celebration - DON'T GET THIS ONE. Thorns are spaced wider apart, smells great, but doesn't last long in the vase. Bush is big 5' x 4' as own-root.

3) Evelyn - the repeat is very fast in alkaline clay soil, at least 10 blooms per flush as a 3 months own-root. It's 3' x 3' in zone 5a. This is always fragrant and lasts long in a vase. Smells like ripe peaches.

4) Wise Portia - it's always blooming, but the blooms are small, more like a landscape bush. It's 3' x 3' as own-root. The color is great, the scent smells great in cool weather, but non-existent in warm weather. I cut it for the vase in rainy spring/fall, and it lasts 4 days. The scent is much better than baby powder at temp. below 60.

5) Queen of Sweden - This has thorns, but wide-spaced apart. The bloom is salmon-pink in alkaline soil, smells great in cool weather, but disappear if the temp. is above 70 degrees. This is upright and compact. I like its scent more than Scepter d'Isle (totally gone in dry weather), and Mary Magdalene (too short and prickly to sniff).

My other 10 Austins I really want to get rid of: messy octopus canes in dry weather and alkaline soil, nasty thistles all the way to the blooms, water-hogs, and scents that show up ONLY in cool and rainy spring/fall in my zone 5a. They are: Christopher Marlowe (little fleeting lemon scent, gets huge), Scepter d'Isle (too messy octopus canes, blah-fading bloom color, big water-hog), Lilian Austin (killer thistles which gave me endless pain, huge bush, little scent), Pat Austin (bloom that fry even in partial shade at above 80 degrees, bloom shatters fast, weird scent), William Shakespeare 2000 (rotten-flower scent, harsh bloom color), Crown Princess Mag (little scent, gets big, water-hog).....

My Austins didn't shoot up octopus canes last year when we had a cool and rainy summer. This year we have a drought in June/July, they shoot up octopus canes and I get so sick of watering them. We are finally back to 1" of rain per week, cooler temp., but I still have tons of octopus canes to trim. Austins are a lot of work if the weather is dry and hot.

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clipped on: 07.26.2013 at 12:45 am    last updated on: 07.26.2013 at 12:45 am

What class of OGR is best for alkaline clay soil?

posted by: Strawberryhill on 01.07.2012 at 01:27 pm in Antique Roses Forum

I was checking info. on the Apothecary's Rose for potpourri and found: it's a gallica, folks in the acidic east coast like this one, and its leaves turn bronze in cool weather like rugosa.

I bought an "Easy Elegance" rose called "Grandmother's Blessing" this summer. It does not like my alkaline clay soil, refused to bloom, and the leaves turned bronze in cool weather. It's in full sun and over 40" rain this year. It's an own-root.

There's my one Knock-Out on Dr. Huey rootstock that stayed green and bloomed non-stop in partial shade. While in High Country Roses' website, I was confused around the many classes of OGR. I checked the pH of the country that they are from: England is mostly acidic, then neutral, then a small region of alkalinity. France is more diversified with a sizable alkaline region. I still don't know which OGR class do best in alkaline clay soil. My pH is 7.7 with lots of lime stones. Thank you in advance.

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clipped on: 07.25.2013 at 02:59 am    last updated on: 07.25.2013 at 02:59 am

RE: Improving Soil (Follow-Up #26)

posted by: wayne_5 on 01.24.2012 at 01:51 pm in Organic Gardening Forum

"Let's see if this discussion can complete a rational resolution to the question of mixing the 2 soil types together successfully."

I am not positive of your intentions maplerbirch. If you are meaning the mixing of the two types, clay and sand, I have some experience there.
My soil is clay loam. A few miles west of me it is more silt loam, and a little further it opens into the prairie soils which can be various mixtures of the three soil grain types.
I would not mix sand only into clayish soils, but I have included the local sphagnum peat moss along with the sand. They have made a remarkable mixture for me when I deeply mix them with my good clay loam. I have seen zero concrete tendencies at any time there. I have also added good quantities of organic matter too. If I could only add either sand or the peat moss to my soil, it would be the peat moss hands down as it can only help loosen up clayish soils with better tilth, improved water percolation, improved water retention, and improved soil aeration. In other words, I have the advantages of kimm's sand without the disadvantages. In more words, I have a sandy loam now.

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clipped on: 07.25.2013 at 01:43 am    last updated on: 07.25.2013 at 01:43 am

Lesson of marigolds on blood meal (Follow-Up #24)

posted by: Strawberryhill on 02.19.2013 at 01:28 pm in Antique Roses Forum

I asked the rosarian in charge of Cantigny park of 1,200 roses for their secret of having more blooms than leaves, he said "use low nitogen, high-phosphorus fertilizer". Phosphorus is needed for root growth and blooms. Nitrogen is for leaves and stems.

One year I dumped blood meal, NPK of 12-0-0 on marigolds to deter bunnies. The marigolds grew taller than 3 feet taller, zero flowers for the entire summer. The last few years I didn't use any fertilizer on marigolds, they are short at 6 inches, loaded with blooms that I can hardy see the leaves.

Alkaline clay are usually low in phosphorus, due to phosphorus tie-up with calcium and magnesium in the soil. That contribute to gigantic roses with little blooms, in addition to using nitrogen fertilizer. Nitrogen fertilizer is known to lessen root growth and flowering. That's the problem with alfalfa being twice higher in nitrogen than phosphorus.

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clipped on: 07.25.2013 at 01:22 am    last updated on: 07.25.2013 at 01:22 am

RE: Peat moss- good or bad? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: gonebananas on 02.21.2012 at 10:31 am in Soil Forum

Peat moss (actually moss peat) has H+ ions on exchange sites and releases acidity that inhibits some microbes. It in no way can overcome soil microflora unless it is a dominant component and in a calcareous clay with strong buffering capacity almost could never do so. It probably never could do so by a simple top dressing either almost no matter what the soil type. Sailors of old used to like taking on water from humic streams feed by peatlands (e.g., New River from the Everglades) because it was said to store longer without bacterial growth and odors in the wood barrels of the time.

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clipped on: 07.25.2013 at 12:16 am    last updated on: 07.25.2013 at 12:16 am

This plant is a MUST have! So fragrant!

posted by: meyermike_1micha on 07.06.2013 at 08:08 pm in Fragrant Plants Forum

Do you think I would of remembered to read the label on this one and tell you what kind of plant it is? lol

If anyone wants to know, I will come back later and let you know. This france of these flowers sort of reminds me of the mock orange tree...Very light, yet sweet, a combo of citrus and gardenia wrapped into one on the lighter side. I love it!
I also love the color of the leaves that stay this way while waiting for the flowers to reward you anytime of the year.

 photo DSCF4366_zps8f54bd97.jpg


 photo DSCF4368_zpse9c3d182.jpg


 photo DSCF4370_zps4266ff49.jpg

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clipped on: 07.22.2013 at 03:41 am    last updated on: 07.22.2013 at 03:41 am

RE: Bands from Heirloom Roses (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: ken-n.ga.mts on 02.17.2013 at 04:16 pm in Roses Forum

The only time I do "bands" anymore is for an OGR or mini that I can't find in a quart size or larger. What I've learned to do with bands is to wait until I see roots in the drain holes (usually about 6 wks), then move them into 1 gal. pots until the fall. Then move them into 3 gal. pots for the winter (very well protected) and keep them there until late summer. Then put them in the ground. Also the first summer they are in 3 gal pots, I dig a hole and put the pots in the ground where they will spend the rest of their life making me happy. This way they are use to the area where they will be. And there is no adjustment when put in the ground.

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clipped on: 07.21.2013 at 03:07 pm    last updated on: 07.21.2013 at 03:07 pm

Which Austin English roses do I NEED to add next season?

posted by: stlgal on 09.23.2011 at 10:23 pm in Roses Forum

I have room for 5 new Austins (1-2 climbers and 3-4 shrub sized) this upcoming spring and I'm debating which ones I really need to add. I'm also open to reblooming old roses, or other English style roses (e.g. Meilland roses) that will work in my zone.

Here are some I'm considering: Ambridge Rose, Comte de Champagne, Eglantyne, Janet, Lady of Shalott, Portmeirion, St. Swithun, The Endeavour, Comte de Chambord. Let me know if you have any opinions about them.

Below is the list of Austins I grow or have grown, grouped by my opinion of them.

All time favorites:
• Abraham Darby�"beautiful deep apricot/pink, fruity fragrance, hardy, lasts well on the shrub or in a vase
• Jude the Obscure�"yellow/cream blend, amazing fragrance is a fruit/myrrh blend, and is very strong unusual and lovely, also holds up well as a cut flower
• William Shakespeare 2000�"best Austin red perhaps, old rose fragrance
• Golden Celebration�"arching bush, fruity strong scent
• Evelyn�"creamy peach, best fragrance, is a blend of old rose and fruit
• Lady Emma Hamilton�"strong lovely citrus scent, orange blend
• Gertrude Jekyll�"deep pink, old rose fragrance, rebloom is a bit slow but I still love the color form and fragrance

Also very good:
• Munstead Wood-pure old rose fragrance, deep red beautiful blooms, fairly prolific, nicely shaped bush
• Strawberry Hill�"pink fragrant blooms (sweet myrrh), waxy tough foliage and great rebloom
• Graham Thomas�"yellow, tea scent, very reliable rebloom, strong, reliable grower that routinely reaches 8+ feet
• Christopher Marlowe�"continuously blooming short arching bush with interesting fragrance (a bit of crispness to it, not a typical rose scent but very pleasant), and a unique color (deep pink/orange blend)
• Young Lycidas�"magenta pink, very prolific and reliable, fragrant, late in the season it became somewhat defoliated but this may be due to its location in the bed.
• Teasing Georgia�"waxy, disease resistant foliage, very large and prolific fragrant (sweet myrrh) apricot blooms, sort of a monster taking over the bed and heading for the 2nd story windows.
• Tea Clipper-apricot, waxy, sweet blooms, strong myrrh scent.
• Jubilee Celebration-color is beautiful pink/yellow blend, strong somewhat fruity scent, good rebloom (almost never out of bloom), suspect this may become a favorite
• Sharifa Asma-beautiful shell pink/cream blend, intense fragrance in the myrrh+fruit range, so far reblooming well, again think this may be a keeper
• Port Sunlight-apricot blending to cream edges, very pretty, rapid rebloom I think, tea scented, depending on how it grows I think this may move up

Pretty good, but at least one complaint:
• A Shropshire Lad�"pretty color (peak/yellow/pink blend), odd fragrance, very slow to rebloom almost limited to an early and a late bloom
• Falstaff�"not a strong fragrance, reliable pretty red blooms though
• Tamora�"short apricot, myrrh fragrance strong, not very robust growth
• Brother Cadfael�"med pink, strong pure rose fragrance, large blooms, upright habit with thornless canes, but blooms brown at the edges in wet weather, sometimes fail to open, large rose that grew to reach our 2nd floor window
• Pat Austin�"beautiful color (burnt orange) but blooms are very short-lived; among the least durable of the Austins I’ve tried-and I’m not a huge fan of the tea scent. Being out-competed by its larger neighbors at the moment (Georgia, Bro Cadfael)
• Pegasus�"arching growth and tea-scented apricot blooms that form in clusters. Still like the color but growth in the later season isn’t impressive and think it’s been superceded by newer varieties.
• Harlow Carr-flat pink flowers, sometimes fragrance wanes (in heat of summer), other times almost like cotton candy, very sugary; kids like how this one smells.
• James Galway-pink climber, not strongly scented unless weather is just right, slow to rebloom
• Crown Princess Margareta-brown edges on many blooms in wet weather, otherwise nice scent (fruity) when they do appear
• Mary Rose-med pink, apple scent, a pretty good grower but flowers not very special
• Noble Anthony-deep pink flowers with some scent
• The Countryman-deep pink [nothing wrong with these two but not very special either]
• The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild-a non-descript pink, so far hasn’t done much for me
• Lady of Megginch-med fragrance, which is not all that obvious most of the time, deep pink pretty blooms, appears to be getting tall in 1st year
• Heritage�"light pink, strongly scented but haven’t had many flowers this first year

Not likely to make it to the favorites list, although they do have their charms:
• The Mayflower-no scent, flowers fail to open in wet weather, weak stems, blackspot prone
• Grace-underperforms so far, flowers are a nice apricot/pink but flatten and give up rapidly in hot weather, short plant that doesn’t grow or bloom robustly
• Princess Alexandria of Kent-light warm pink, not very robust growth, flowers do not last well in the heat
• Molineux-short yellow, some scent but not strong most of the time, plant doesn’t compete well vs everything else I’m growing and isn’t worth making a special place
• Mary Webb-cream/yellow, little scent
• Fair Bianca�"white, blackspot prone and not a strong grower

Used to grow:
• LD Braithwaite-no fragrance, fairly boring red w/o the usual Austin charm
• Charles Austin-turned into a monster and couldn’t convince it to rebloom reliably even when I self-pegged it
• Perdita-cream blend
• The Alnwick Rose-light pink, not very robust, not much fragrance (recent SP and don’t think I’d replant)
• Huntington Rose-prolific bloomer but not strongly scented, might prefer something else
• Carding Mill- sort of an odd fragrance and flowers open strangely&asymmetrically

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clipped on: 07.20.2013 at 08:14 am    last updated on: 07.20.2013 at 08:14 am

RE: Which David Austin would you never plant again/ (Follow-Up #66)

posted by: Strawberryhill on 07.07.2012 at 10:09 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Thank you, Eramus, for another lovely shot. That's my dream: white fence with climbing rose - absolutely beautiful! I am thinking of how I can train Golden Celebration side way - I might need a fanning struture, will have to shop for it.

Thank you, Nastara, for your honesty. I'm in zone 5a just like you, and my liking Scepter d' Isle turned into resentment: That bush cause 2 injuries an hour ago. I got it from Chamblee's mid-May. It spreads 3 feet wide in less than 2 months, rather than 2.5' as described in Austin Catalog. Hubby cut a wooden post to restrain him. I hammer the wooden post in and got a sliver painfully imbedded in my finger, then Mr. Scepter pricked me on my knee!

I'm done with spreading Scepter. It will cool down to 80's tomorrow, I'll banish him to the swamp, and put Roseseek's thornless Lynnie in that high-traffic place. Lynnie blooms more, better color, better shape, and more compact.

Thanks, Terryjean, for your warning about Munstead Wood's far reaching embrace. I found another-hidden treasure with heavenly scent: Basyes Blueberry. It has a delightful wild-rose scent, which reminds me of wild rose in the meadow. Basyes Blueberry is 100% thornless, upright, pretty foliage & flower, and smells BETTER than Scepter d'Isle regardless of the weather. All my Austins lose their scents in hot summer.

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clipped on: 07.20.2013 at 04:13 am    last updated on: 07.20.2013 at 04:13 am

RE: Your opinion please on the most beautiful, valuable old Austi (Follow-Up #29)

posted by: ronda_in_carolina on 05.14.2008 at 10:36 pm in Antique Roses Forum

I grow Lilian Austin and she is a real beauty. She shakes off BS in my no spray garden and gets prettier with each passing year. Too easy and beautiful not to grow. She also doesn't blow like so many Austins do.

Photobucket

Sophy's Rose is a real gem. Blooms that hold and reoccur very quickly in my garden.

Photobucket

But of course my love affair with Abe is well known....

Photobucket

ronda

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.20.2013 at 03:52 am    last updated on: 07.20.2013 at 03:52 am

RE: Your opinion please on the most beautiful, valuable old Austi (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: decobug on 05.11.2008 at 07:49 am in Antique Roses Forum

To really know the age of most 'old' Austins we need a chronology:

Constance Spry 1961
Chianti 1967**
Gypsy's Wine Cup 1968
Scintillation 1968
Shropshire Lass 1968
Canterbury 1969
Dame Prudence 1969
Honeypot 1969
The Friar 1969
The Knight 1969
The Prioress 1969
The Yeoman 1969
Wife of Bath 1969

Chaucer 1970
The Miller 1970
Charles Austin 1973
Lilian Austin 1973
Red Coat 1973
Yellow Button 1975
The Squire 1977
The Countryman 1979
The Reeve 1979

Glastonbury 1981
Yellow Charles Austin 1981
Admired Miranda 1982
Charmian 1982
Fair Bianca 1982
Hero 1982
Leander 1982
Prospero 1982
Proud Titania 1982
Wise Portia 1982

Cressida 1983
Cymbeline 1983
Dapple Dawn 1983
Graham Thomas 1983
Jaquenetta 1983
Lordly Oberon 1983
Lucetta 1983
Mary Rose 1983
Moonbeam 1983
Perdita 1983
Pretty Jessica 1983
Sir Clough 1983
Tamora 1983
Troilus 1983

Belle Story 1984**
Bredon 1984
Dove 1984
Ellen 1984
Heritage 1984
Hilda Murrell 1984
Mary Webb 1984
Wenlock 1984
Windrush 1984

Abraham Darby 1985
Autumn Leaves 1985
Emanuel 1985
Mountain Snow 1985
Sir Walter Raleigh 1985

Allux Symphony 1986
Claire Rose 1986
English Elegance 1986
English Garden 1986
Gertrude Jekyll 1986
Othello 1986
Robbie Burns 1986
Warwick Castle 1986
Wild Flower 1986

Fisherman's Friend 1987
Red Mary Rose 1987
St. Cecilia 1987
Swan 1987
The Nun 1987
William Shakespeare 1987

Charles Rennie Mackintosh 1988
Financial Times Centenary 1988
Francine Austin 1988
LD Braithwaite 1988
Potter and Moore 1988
Queen Nefertiti 1988
Winchester Cathedral 1988

Bibi Maizoon 1989
Sharifa Asma 1989
Sweet Juliet 1989

Ambridge Rose 1990
Brother Cadfael 1990
Kathryn Morley 1990
Lilac Rose 1990
Peach Blossom 1990
The Prince 1990

Bow Bells 1991
Cottage Rose 1991
Country Living 1991
The Dark Lady 1991
The Pilgrim 1991

Dr. Jackson 1992
Emily 1992
Evelyn 1992
Glamis Castle 1992
Golden Celebration 1992
Immortal Juno 1992
Proud Bride 1992
Redout� 1992
Sir Edward Elgar 1992
The Alexandra Rose 1992

Happy Child 1993
Jayne Austin 1993
Mrs. Doreen Pike 1993
St. Swithun 1993
Tradescant 1993

Charlotte 1994
Eglantyne 1994
John Clare 1994
Molineux 1994
Radio Times 1994
The Herbalist 1994

Heavenly Rosalind 1995**
Jude the Obscure 1995
Noble Antony 1995
Pat Austin 1995
Pegasus 1995

A Shropshire Lad 1996
Morning Mist 1996
Mayor of Casterbridge 1996
Scepter'd Isle 1996
Snow Goose 1996

Ann 1997
Barbara Austin 1997
Charity 1997**
Geoff Hamilton 1997
Heather Austin 1997
Marinette 1997**
Mistress Quickly 1997
Rushing Stream 1997
Sophy's Rose 1997
Trevor Griffiths 1997
Windflower 1997

Buttercup 1998
Dr. Herbert Gray 1998
Mary Magdalene 1998
Teasing Georgia 1998
Tess of the D'Urbervilles 1998
William Morris 1998

Anne Boleyn 1999
Blythe Spirit 1999
Falstaff 1999
Portmeirion 1999

Cordelia 2000
Crocus Rose 2000
Crown Princess Margareta 2000
James Galway 2000
Ludlow Castle 2000
Malvern Hills 2000
Miss Alice 2000
William Shakespeare 2000

Alnwick Castle 2001
Benjamin Britten 2001
Charles Darwin 2001
Comte des Champagne 2001
Corvedale 2001
Grace 2001
The Mayflower 2001

Christopher Marlowe 2002
Jubilee Celebration 2002
Mortimer Sackler 2002
The Generous Gardener 2002

Janet 2003
Rose-Marie 2003
Scarborough Fair 2003

Carding Mill 2004**
Hyde Hall 2004
Queen of Sweden 2004
Rosemoor 2004
St. Alban 2004
The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild 2004
Wisley 2004

Darcey Bussell 2005
Gentle Hermione 2005
Harlow Carr 2005
Lady Emma Hamilton 2005
Lochinvar 2005
Rose of Picardy 2005
Spirit Of Freedom 2005
Summer Song 2005
Wild Edric 2005
Wildeve 2005

Lichfield Angel 2006
Sister Elizabeth 2006
Strawberry Hill 2006
Tea Clipper 2006
Windermere 2006

Bishop's Castle 2007
Claire Austin 2007
Huntington Rose 2007
Lady of Megginch 2007
Munstead Wood 2007
Port Sunlight 2007
Princess Alexandra of Kent 2007
Skylark 2007
The Shepherdess 2007

Names in Bold are sold by David Austin Roses

** Available from DA USA branch only

Other roses may be available from other vendors

NOTES:

<none>
clipped on: 07.20.2013 at 03:47 am    last updated on: 07.20.2013 at 03:48 am

RE: Info on Some of the Lesser Known Austins??? -LONG- (Follow-Up #27)

posted by: jeffcat on 07.09.2009 at 03:01 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Also, if anybody wants to discuss some Austins that are not listed and becoming extinct, feel free to do so. Here is a list.

Constance Spry 1961
Chianti 1967**
Gypsy's Wine Cup 1968
Scintillation 1968
Shropshire Lass 1968
Canterbury 1969
Dame Prudence 1969
Honeypot 1969
The Friar 1969
The Knight 1969
The Prioress 1969
The Yeoman 1969
Wife of Bath 1969

Chaucer 1970
The Miller 1970
Charles Austin 1973
Lilian Austin 1973
Red Coat 1973
Yellow Button 1975
The Squire 1977
The Countryman 1979
The Reeve 1979

Glastonbury 1981
Yellow Charles Austin 1981
Admired Miranda 1982
Charmian 1982
Fair Bianca 1982
Hero 1982
Leander 1982
Prospero 1982
Proud Titania 1982
Wise Portia 1982

Cressida 1983
Cymbeline 1983
Dapple Dawn 1983
Graham Thomas 1983
Jaquenetta 1983
Lordly Oberon 1983
Lucetta 1983
Mary Rose 1983
Moonbeam 1983
Perdita 1983
Pretty Jessica 1983
Sir Clough 1983
Tamora 1983
Troilus 1983

Belle Story 1984**
Bredon 1984
Dove 1984
Ellen 1984
Heritage 1984
Hilda Murrell 1984
Mary Webb 1984
Wenlock 1984
Windrush 1984

Abraham Darby 1985
Autumn Leaves 1985
Emanuel 1985
Mountain Snow 1985
Sir Walter Raleigh 1985

Allux Symphony 1986
Claire Rose 1986
English Elegance 1986
English Garden 1986
Gertrude Jekyll 1986
Othello 1986
Robbie Burns 1986
Warwick Castle 1986
Wild Flower 1986

Fisherman's Friend 1987
Red Mary Rose 1987
St. Cecilia 1987
Swan 1987
The Nun 1987
William Shakespeare 1987

Charles Rennie Mackintosh 1988
Financial Times Centenary 1988
Francine Austin 1988
LD Braithwaite 1988
Potter and Moore 1988
Queen Nefertiti 1988
Winchester Cathedral 1988

Bibi Maizoon 1989
Sharifa Asma 1989
Sweet Juliet 1989

Ambridge Rose 1990
Brother Cadfael 1990
Kathryn Morley 1990
Lilac Rose 1990
Peach Blossom 1990
The Prince 1990

Bow Bells 1991
Cottage Rose 1991
Country Living 1991
The Dark Lady 1991
The Pilgrim 1991

Dr. Jackson 1992
Emily 1992
Evelyn 1992
Glamis Castle 1992
Golden Celebration 1992
Immortal Juno 1992
Proud Bride 1992
Redout� 1992
Sir Edward Elgar 1992
The Alexandra Rose 1992

Happy Child 1993
Jayne Austin 1993
Mrs. Doreen Pike 1993
St. Swithun 1993
Tradescant 1993

Charlotte 1994
Eglantyne 1994
John Clare 1994
Molineux 1994
Radio Times 1994
The Herbalist 1994

Heavenly Rosalind 1995**
Jude the Obscure 1995
Noble Antony 1995
Pat Austin 1995
Pegasus 1995

A Shropshire Lad 1996
Morning Mist 1996
Mayor of Casterbridge 1996
Scepter'd Isle 1996
Snow Goose 1996

Ann 1997
Barbara Austin 1997
Charity 1997**
Geoff Hamilton 1997
Heather Austin 1997
Marinette 1997**
Mistress Quickly 1997
Rushing Stream 1997
Sophy's Rose 1997
Trevor Griffiths 1997
Windflower 1997

Buttercup 1998
Dr. Herbert Gray 1998
Mary Magdalene 1998
Teasing Georgia 1998
Tess of the D'Urbervilles 1998
William Morris 1998

Anne Boleyn 1999
Blythe Spirit 1999
Falstaff 1999
Portmeirion 1999

Cordelia 2000
Crocus Rose 2000
Crown Princess Margareta 2000
James Galway 2000
Ludlow Castle 2000
Malvern Hills 2000
Miss Alice 2000
William Shakespeare 2000

Alnwick Castle 2001
Benjamin Britten 2001
Charles Darwin 2001
Comte des Champagne 2001
Corvedale 2001
Grace 2001
The Mayflower 2001

Christopher Marlowe 2002
Jubilee Celebration 2002
Mortimer Sackler 2002
The Generous Gardener 2002

Janet 2003
Rose-Marie 2003
Scarborough Fair 2003

Carding Mill 2004**
Hyde Hall 2004
Queen of Sweden 2004
Rosemoor 2004
St. Alban 2004
The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild 2004
Wisley 2004

Darcey Bussell 2005
Gentle Hermione 2005
Harlow Carr 2005
Lady Emma Hamilton 2005
Lochinvar 2005
Rose of Picardy 2005
Spirit Of Freedom 2005
Summer Song 2005
Wild Edric 2005
Wildeve 2005

Lichfield Angel 2006
Sister Elizabeth 2006
Strawberry Hill 2006
Tea Clipper 2006
Windermere 2006

Bishop's Castle 2007
Claire Austin 2007
Huntington Rose 2007
Lady of Megginch 2007
Munstead Wood 2007
Port Sunlight 2007
Princess Alexandra of Kent 2007
Skylark 2007
The Shepherdess 2007

Names in Bold are sold by David Austin Roses

** Available from DA USA branch only

Other roses may be available from other vendors

NOTES:

<none>
clipped on: 07.20.2013 at 03:24 am    last updated on: 07.20.2013 at 03:25 am

RE: Most fragrant shrubs? (Follow-Up #13)

posted by: christie_sw_mo on 04.26.2010 at 02:11 pm in Shrubs Forum

It pays to research before you buy. Some shrubs only flower for a few days. I use the website below a lot because it has bloom data for many plants to show when and how long the plants were in bloom. Click on the left where it says "bloom data" in red. You can click at the top where it says alphabetical list (botanical names) or common names to look up other plants.

Souvenir de St. Anne's is supposed to be a fragrant disease resistant rose.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mobot - Viburnum Carlesii

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.17.2013 at 11:51 pm    last updated on: 07.17.2013 at 11:51 pm

RE: Most fragrant shrubs? (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: pinballer3 on 04.24.2010 at 10:57 pm in Shrubs Forum

Winter Honeysuckle, Carol Mackie Daphne, Korean Spice Virburnum, Double Delight Rose, Belle Etoile Mock Orange, and then Agastache Desert Sunrise for late summer mint scented foliage that deer hate. It has beautiful flowers that attract hummingbirds.

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.17.2013 at 11:50 pm    last updated on: 07.17.2013 at 11:50 pm

RE: Best Easy to Find Mulch (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: wirosarian on 05.19.2012 at 03:32 pm in Roses Forum

The best organic mulch is FREE & from a LOCAL source, not purchased.

1st check with local city/county recycling (or County Univ. Ext. Office)for mulch & compost sites--many areas have wood chips & mulch free (or at minimal cost) if you can haul it.

2nd check with a local tree trimming companies, many will dump a load of wood chips in your driveway for little or no fee if they are working in your area

a 3rd option that I've found in my area is check for horse stables, most have large piles of horse manure & no place to spread it so they have to pay to have it hauled away. So if you have the means to haul it, they are usually more than happy to give it away & some may even deliver it for a fee.

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.17.2013 at 09:42 pm    last updated on: 07.17.2013 at 09:42 pm

RE: Best Easy to Find Mulch (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: lucille on 05.19.2012 at 09:26 am in Roses Forum

I use bagged cypress from Home Depot. I actually costed out the difference between bagged and delivered (1 cubic yard is 3x3x3 or 27 cubic feet, bagged mulch is often 2 cubic feet) and found that the cost difference was not as large as I thought, bagged is a little more expensive but way more convenient and Home Depot staff loaded the bags into my SUV and then refused a tip and the loaded bags were i easy to get to my house.
This is the first year at my tiny little house I'm fixing up, but I also used oak leaves I bagged in the fall. For next year I may save and compost more leaves.

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.17.2013 at 09:36 pm    last updated on: 07.17.2013 at 09:36 pm

RE: Ideas for fantastic Clematis Combos wanted!! (Follow-Up #22)

posted by: bloomorelse on 07.11.2013 at 12:58 am in Clematis Forum

Gonna see if this works using Photobucket.
A lot of these clems are on a long fence as you'll see in the last pic.

 photo clemsJuly10th2013003-Copy.jpg

 photo clemsJuly10th2013008.jpg

 photo clemsJuly10th2013005-Copy.jpg

 photo clemsJuly10th2013007.jpg

 photo clemsJuly10th2013021.jpg

 photo clemsJuly10th2013016.jpg

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.17.2013 at 10:29 am    last updated on: 07.17.2013 at 10:30 am

RE: climbing golden celebration (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: karenforroses on 06.06.2010 at 08:36 pm in Roses Forum

Pamela, I grow Golden Celebration on a free standing tutour here in Northern Michigan. It doesn't get much taller than 6 feet here because of our winters, so I wrap the canes around the tutour. They bloom better when they are horizontal and it keeps the height at about 5 feet. Here it is on the white tutour.

Photobucket

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.17.2013 at 09:04 am    last updated on: 07.17.2013 at 09:04 am

Help! two shaded beds - North and West side of the house

posted by: mklmkl12842 on 04.09.2013 at 01:32 pm in Gardening in Shade Forum

I have two small beds I need some help on! - 1) One on the back of the house facing NNE, and 2) one on the left side of the house facing WNW. Our house faces SSW.

Deer resistant plants would be wise choices for our garden.

1) on the back of the house facing NNE

This is a very narrow bed (2ft deep I would guess) between concrete walkway and the wall with large window. It gets no direct sunlight, but but doesn't feel too dark maybe because it opens to the sky and light reflects from the white siding. There is a small area where Pachysandra is doing well, to the right of that is AC unit, and to the right of that about 10ft wide. I am a total newbie but the area is fairly damp/wet, so not dry shade. Currently there are only two astillbes there that grew about 1-2ft tall. Foliage was good, but it had only 2-3 flowers per plant. I am dividing them soon to see if that helps - I doubt previous owner did much to it at all.

What else can I plant here? Do I need some foundation plant? It looks awfully empty in the winter so some evergreen + other perennials would be nice I think. But not a lot of space. Also it has large window on that wall, so I rather not plant something that will block the view too much. So something shorter than 3-4 ft ideally. I could plant something taller in the corner where it is just wall.

2) on the left side of the house facing WNW

This bed is on the back NW corner of our house. No direct sunlight in AM at all, but around 2-3pm (depending on the season) it starts getting direct sun but only for a couple of hours. There are no trees between us and the neighbor on that side of the house so it gets direct sun until the sun is blocked by the neighbor's house. The soil is moist.

When we moved in there wasn't anything there (except for the weeds..), and last fall we planted a yew in the corner (where it doesn't get any direct light all day, and a winter gem boxwood mid way of the bed. Both are doing well so far although i haven't seem it go through all seasons yet.

What can I plant here? I have an Azalea bush in the front lawn that possibly needs to be moved, would it do well here? What about Hydrangea? What else can I grow here?

I know some are going to suggest hostas, but I am not sure if it a losing battle with the deer. I am putting in a new fences but won't be high enough to keep them out. We prefer no high maintenance plants since we are a couple working full time with a toddler and another one on the way...

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.15.2013 at 08:48 pm    last updated on: 07.15.2013 at 08:48 pm

110 Clematis Rated Over 6 Years by CBG!

posted by: arbo_retum on 06.04.2012 at 12:16 am in Perennials Forum

Can't tell you how thrilled I was to see this article in July 2012 Fine Gardening- detailing the results of this 6 yr. clematis test run at the Chicago Botanical Garden. Suffice it to say that I have become a cerifiable clematis nut in the last few yrs. It makes sense, right?> we already have the conifers and woodies to grow them over, and we don't have much planting space but boy do we still have VERTICAL space!! Hope this is useful to a bunch of you.
best,
mindy
www.cottonarboretum.com/

** scroll down in the link to print out the Excel or PDF version of the test results

Here is a link that might be useful: clematis 6 yr. trial results from CBG

NOTES:

Chicago Botantical gardens Clemmie Trial
clipped on: 07.15.2013 at 06:34 pm    last updated on: 07.15.2013 at 06:35 pm

RE: Midwestern Japanese Beetles Report Thread (Follow-Up #3)

posted by: wirosarian on 07.07.2013 at 11:38 am in Roses Forum

The first observed JB showed up in my garden this year on July 3rd. Their numbers should be smaller in my area this year because of the hot & dry summer last year that should cause a high mortality in the grubs because of the dried up grassy areas, except if you live in an area where there are large areas of irrigated grass. Using milky spore, nematodes or grubicides on your lawn will keep your grass looking good but will do very little to protect your roses & other plants that adult JB's feed on. Below is some info from a previous post I made about a new insecticide that I tried last summer.

I tried a different insecticide for JB's late last summer that seems to be significantly better than Merit or Sevin which are both contact killers & only gave me about 2 days of limited control. I live 2 blocks from a large irrigated University athletic field so JB's are present in unbelievable numbers in my yard. This new pesticide is called Demand CS & it appears to have both a residual kill & repel affect on the JB's for about 10 days so hoping I only have to spray 3x a month. Below is a link to a rose blog where I found out about this spray.

If you use Demand CS, it is sensitive to the pH of your water so you should use Indicate 5 or something like it.....Indicate 5 is available at rosemania.com.

Here is a link that might be useful: rose blog

This post was edited by wirosarian on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 11:46

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.15.2013 at 08:58 am    last updated on: 07.15.2013 at 08:58 am

RE: Which David Austin would you never plant again/ (Follow-Up #7)

posted by: roseseek on 07.05.2012 at 10:54 am in Antique Roses Forum

Hi Bart, in inland, Southern California climates, which tend to run from savannah to lower, to mid to high desert, they just haven't been selected for, nor very many found suitable for our types of climate issues. Several years ago, I was asked to give a tribute I'd written for Ralph Moore, the rose breeder of Visalia, California who had passed away a few months prior. The event was the Great Rosarians of the World which honored Mr. Austin. Michael Marriott, from the Austin Nursery, was there to accept the award.

One point I made in the tribute was Mr. Moore's admonition to "create a good plant first; it's easy to 'hang a pretty flower' on it later". Mr. Marriott was obviously listening as his response in his presentation was that at Austin's, they used different criteria for selecting seedlings. The first is "the look". The rose must look as an English rose should look. Second was fragrance. It must smell as an English rose must smell. Third was it must have a beautiful flower. He further stated, "of course health is considered. The rose must be 'acceptably healthy', but it is not as high a consideration for us as was stated for Mr. Moore." My experience with many of the Austin roses in coastal, savannah and mid desert climates here in SoCal prove his statement.

I know, no rose is going to be healthy everywhere. I also know many of us revile Hybrid Teas because of their lack of disease resistance, often for very similar reasons. Far too often, cultivars have been selected based up the "pretty face" instead of quality of plant, including disease resistance. Yes, there are exceptions, but the "rule" has been novelty and pretty flower at the expense of health across climates. To a certain level, even though we state health is the important issue, we continue going for the pretty face instead. Knock Out roses have been engineered to resist more strains of black spot across the entire US better than any other rose. You read what many have to say about Knock Outs. Enough said?

Austin roses have been bred and selected to perform in a British climate. Vigorous parents have been used to provide the vigor necessary for his harsher, shorter growing season. That extra vigor is also a great problem when unleashed in milder, longer climates. Most of us here have experienced the "octopus arms" expressed by many of his roses when grown in longer, warmer areas. The 'vigor' necessary to create "mannerly, five foot shrubs" in Britain is what produces fifteen foot climbers in my (and quite a few other) climates.

Of course, being selected in Britain, his roses can't be expected to resist our strains of black spot, but many of them lack the necessary mildew and rust resistance to make them decent plants here without spraying. My climate is often windy. It is often above the 80 degree threshold where most chemical measures become highly phytotoxic. Our greater aridity contributes to the phytotoxic effects of most disease treatments. Even if chemical use was possible and acceptable, they are often contra indicated because of wind, heat and the wide swings in aridity.

Fragrance in roses comes at the expense of petal durability. I've linked an article I wrote some years ago documenting what was known at the time about it. Fragrant roses have very soft, chemically active petals which are very susceptible to sun and heat scorching, with much less life than those with greater petal substance and less scent. That often translates into significantly reduced landscape value in hotter, drier, windier areas...like 99% of the desert south west.

It isn't surprising many Austin roses have been demonstrated to be water hogs. First, they were bred and selected in an environment which provides a high level of rainfall and ground water. They were bred and selected to have large, many petaled flowers, which require many more resources to create. Those large, very full flowers are also much more successfully created and maintained in cooler, more stable climates than mine. Their inbred vigor, necessary to provide suitable vigor in their original colder, shorter season climate, encourages many of them to develop into huge plants in longer, warmer seasons. That vigor also requires much more water and food to produce and maintain. It also makes them more unsuitable for our increasingly decreasing garden sizes. In newer construction in much of our area, most "garden spaces" are against hot house and yard walls, in rather shallow borders. Add mechanically compacted soil to provide mandated seismic stability, and its accompanying elimination of drainage, and these types of plants become gardening nightmares. The hotter climate becomes significantly worse when greater and greater percentages of the available "yard space" is covered in hardscape required to turn the yard into "outdoor living spaces". Reflected and radiated heat cooks plants in general, but is often severe on plants of the Austin rose requirements.

In the worst of these situations, most plants become gardening nightmares, but the lack of heat tolerance; higher water requirements; enthusiasm to develop into overly large plants; generally lower disease resistance (in far too many instances) to rust and mildew; and their often, incredibly prickly character, and you have issues which make them quite unsuitable for many places.

When I grew the ones I found good garden plants in other areas, water, drainage and space weren't issues. Some of the earlier cultivars were truly enjoyable plants in their places and times. Several of those same roses couldn't make the transition from mid desert to savannah climate and had to be adopted out to others who still garden in the hotter, drier areas and can provide them what they need to keep them happy.

I am far more likely to use plants created by breeders who value disease resistance and bushier, more controlled plants higher than Mr. Austin's nursery has. Yes, there have been some very healthy, more recent English roses, but their other requirements and characteristics, their greater water requirements being an important one, make them very undesirable for my goals. Yes, I hope for fragrance, but I demand higher resistance to the major fungal issues; decent heat tolerance; early, fast and as continuous as possible rebloom; as few prickles as possible; on a more controlled, bushy, dwarf plant which should be more suitable for smaller spaces. None of those are goals any Austin rose, of any vintage, is likely to be helpful in achieving. Kim

The photo is my Graham Thomas this morning.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fragrance: Much Ado About Nothing?

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.12.2013 at 10:33 pm    last updated on: 07.12.2013 at 10:33 pm

RE: Need climbing rose suggestions (Follow-Up #9)

posted by: TravisE on 06.03.2013 at 11:41 am in Roses Forum

ill 2nd the rambler as a good choice. i live in zone 6. i have a dorothy perkins rambling rose. i havent had any die back. this is it last year alittle after full bloom. it was covered it bloom.

NOTES:

Chain link roses
clipped on: 07.12.2013 at 07:38 pm    last updated on: 07.12.2013 at 07:38 pm

RE: what's your favorite David Austin / English rose? (Follow-Up #8)

posted by: ianna on 03.15.2007 at 10:27 am in Gardening in Canada Forum

jannabeen,

Your DA likely died because it has it's own roots. It's not hardy for the zone. The hardier root is the key for plant survival in our cold climate. This is the reason why DA's available in Pickering Nursery, for example, are grafted to hardier roots. The DAs are patented plants which means the upper portion comes from the UK where they are bred. You can of course go direct to the source DA's to seek answers as to how they export their plants and how they are grafted and why the fragrance has diminished on some varieties.

As for lavenders - I don't know what varieties you had but I had several in my old garden (zone 5a). Plan to do the same with my new garden. I used munsteads. There are other varieties available here that are not suitable for our climate. Anyway, the ones that survived our cold climate were planted in fast draining soil. I conditioned that bed with plenty of builder's sand (and peat & compost). Lavenders hate being in wet soil. Mine had been a clay bed. I also don't do any hard pruning until well into midspring. this is because the dead twigs protect the plant by catching snow which in turns insulate the plant from harsh winter winds, heaves and thaws.... It also helps if you mulch them.

Hope this helps with your future projects.

Ianna

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.12.2013 at 07:11 pm    last updated on: 07.12.2013 at 07:11 pm

RE: Golden Celebration growing against a wall - advice (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: Strawberryhill on 07.04.2013 at 03:25 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Hi Annalyssa: I forget to answer your original question:
"Right now the thin canes are reaching out toward the sun and droop with the heavy blooms so that they look down and you hardly get to appreciate them. Should I be tying them to stakes?"

I would give it soluble fertilizer low in nitrogen, but high in potassium to make the stem stronger. My Golden Cel. has no weak neck since I use low nitrogen, and high potassium & phosphorus.

I have Eglantyne, an Austin that refused to bloom until I gave it high-potassium fertilizer. Caldonbeck in England posted very short Austins with tons of blooms ... I asked for the secret, and Caldonbeck said to use fertilizer meant for tomatoes: low in nitrogen, but high potassium and phosphorus.

See below link for picture of someone growing Golden Celebration in a pot: short, compact, lots of blooms. The other picture I saw in a pot had even more blooms. My tap water is alkaline, so I put acid (vinegar or used lemons) to help with better root growth and more blooming. Putting sulfur in the pot does the same, but risks burning in hot sun.

Here is a link that might be useful: Golden Celebration in a pot

NOTES:

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clipped on: 07.12.2013 at 06:33 pm    last updated on: 07.12.2013 at 06:34 pm

RE: How to plant own root roses for long lasting success (Follow-Up #4)

posted by: michaelg on 07.10.2013 at 10:17 am in Antique Roses Forum

Modern advice from professional horticulturalists is not to prepare amended holes, but to amend the whole planting area evenly if that is needed. Usually 10" is deep enough. Heavily amended holes interrupt the natural movement of water and roots and can lead to water-logging or dry spots. Excessive use of organic matter leads to shrinkage, as Lyn says above. Also wild roses generally are not particularly adapted to mucky soils.

My advice would be to get a soil test through your county extension agent. Adjust the pH if needed. Avoid adding nutrients that are already abundant in the soil. (Too much of anything is harmful.)

If the soil is very sandy, add 1-2" of clay in the form of plain kitty litter. Unless organic matter is already high, dig in 2" of manure or 3" of compost. If the soil is heavy clay with poor drainage, raise the bed 4-6" above the surrounding grade. Nuggets of expanded clay (Turface) or slate are good for adding volume. To prevent long-lasting compaction, do not work or step on heavy soils when they are wet.

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RE: If You Could Choose Only One Climbing Rose... (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: ingrid_vc on 07.09.2013 at 02:13 pm in Antique Roses Forum

Although I haven't grown it (have baby plant in 1-gallon pot), I've heard so many good things about Annie Laurie McDowell that I look forward to it being my favorite. It has the lilac pink color I love most in roses, is intensely fragrant and thornless, blooms most of the time and has no disease that I know of.

Of the climbers I have grown, Reve d'Or is my favorite, with Lady Hillingdon being a close second. I love the peachy-pink color and bloom formation of Reve d'Or and the fact that it blooms so often in my climate, and it also had no disease. Ditto for Cl. Lady Hillingdon, which I had in a past garden and am now growing again as a young plant.

Ingrid

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RE: What is an old or antique rose? (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: melissa_thefarm on 11.18.2012 at 02:56 am in Antique Roses Forum

I'll add a bit more to what's already been said. As bellegallica wrote, a rose is defined as an old rose according to the class it belongs to, not by the date of its introduction. 'Perle d'Or', bred in 1875 and introduced in 1884 (dates are from HMF), is classified as a modern rose because it's a Polyantha, a class that postdates the creation of the Hybrid Tea class. The Hybrid Perpetual 'Ferdinand Pichard' on the other hand is classed as an old rose because of its class, even though it was raised in 1921.
There have been threads on this forum about what roses we discuss here. The forum is defined as being for old roses as officially defined and English roses (hybridized by David Austin). In addition to these two groups, though, we also talk about Polyanthas, Rugosas, Hybrid Musks, ramblers, species roses and their hybrids, and various other shrub and climbing roses. My own conclusion is that this forum, broadly speaking, is dedicated to the discussion of roses that are grown not only for their flowers, but for their ornamental value as plants. Most are old or older roses, but recent varieties certainly are discussed as well.
Melissa

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RE: What is an old or antique rose? (Follow-Up #2)

posted by: bellegallica_zone9 on 11.17.2012 at 08:41 pm in Antique Roses Forum

It is a rose that belongs to one of the classes that was in existence before 1867. That is the date "La France" was introduced, and La France has been chosen as the first Hybrid Tea, though there may have been earlier ones. So, all the rose classes prior to the Hybrid Tea class.

Those classes are:

Gallica
Damask
Damask Perpetual
Centifolia
Moss
Bourbon
Hybrid Perpetual
China
Tea
Noisette

The old European rose classes usually only bloomed once in the spring and summer. Those were the Gallicas, Centifolias, Damasks. When the repeat blooming Asian roses, the Chinas and Teas, were introduced to the Western world, rose breeders began crossing them with the once bloomers to create the repeat blooming OGR classes: Bourbons, Hybrid perpetuals, Noisettes.

I may be leaving out a class or two. (Species are the oldest of all, of course.) But that's the basic story.

On this forum, though, things are a bit relaxed and people talk about roses that are old, but that don't necessarily fit the technical definition. And Austin roses are discussed here, too. They are modern roses with the old-fashioned look.

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RE: Shade tolerant roses zone 5 (Follow-Up #18)

posted by: Strawberryhill on 02.17.2012 at 12:58 pm in Roses Forum

Thank you, mysteryrose, for the above info. I live in zone 5a, 1 hour west of Chicago, in a shady lot with lots of trees. Thank you, altorama, for posting those gorgeous pictures. HMF needs more full-bush shot like yours.

Hi Jmoyaux: Since Austin roses are from a rainy, less sun climate - some of them tolerate shade really well. Crown Princess Margareta was reported blooming in 2 hours of sun. Of the Austins that I grow, Wise Portia, Golden Celebration, Christopher Marlow, and Lady Emma Hamilton (English Musk) all bloom in 4 hours of sun. Austins are such water-hogs that planting them in partial-shade is actually an advantage.

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RE: Shade tolerant roses zone 5 (Follow-Up #1)

posted by: TNY78 on 02.09.2012 at 12:28 pm in Roses Forum

As a general rule, hybrid musks and albas can tolerate more shades than most other rose classes. You could do a search on Helpmefind.com/roses for those two classes and see if theres anything that you like.

Out of those classes I grow Ballerina, Buff Beauty, Darlow's Enigma (sort of a hybrid musk), Celestial, Armide, Bubble Bath & Felicia.

While I do't grow it, Rogue Valley states that Dr. Robert Korn's is extremely shade tolerant. Their mother plant apparently receives almost no direct sunlight.

~Tammy

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Robert Korns

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Oops (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: dublinbay on 02.09.2012 at 07:38 pm in Roses Forum

Just remembered you asked about roses hardy in Zone 5.
Of the shady ones listed above, these are the ones hardy to Zone 4:

Shropshire Lad, Crocus Rose, Gertrude Jekyll, L.D. Braithwaite, Mary Rose, St. Swithun, Susan Williams-Ellis, The Mayflower, Winchester Cathedral.

David Austin also says "in general" all Austin roses are hardy to at least Zone 5--so there are probably others on my first list that would work in your region also.

Kate

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RE: Shade tolerant roses zone 5 (Follow-Up #5)

posted by: dublinbay on 02.09.2012 at 07:01 pm in Roses Forum

I don't recommend growing roses in too much shade--they should get at least 4-5 hours of sun. As others above noted, they will tend to get more diseases (like blackspot) and not bloom as much as they should.

However, if you want to experiment to see what might work in that much shade, David Austin says the following of his roses can get by in shady places: Shropshire Lad, Denjamin Britten, Bonica, Crocus Rose, Gertrude Jekyll, Golden Celebration, Graham Thomas, Grace, Hyde Hall, James Galway, Jude the Obscure, Kew Gardens, L.D. Braithwaite, Lady of Shalott, Mary Rose, St. Swithun, Susan Williams-Ellis, Tam O'Shanter, Teasing Georgia, Tess of the d'Urbervilles, The Mayflower, Winchester Cathedral, and Mortimer Sackler.

You can find more info. and pics of them at helpmefind.com (see below).

Here is a link that might be useful: helpmefind.com

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RE: It is the time again - your rose orders for 2011? (Follow-Up #6)

posted by: flaurabunda on 11.29.2010 at 09:53 am in Roses Forum

I think I have ordered all I'm going to for next year. I'm a little overwhelmed looking at the list---whew! The only one I intended to order but didn't was Speelwark. I know it's still available, but to get it now I'd have to order more roses with it. I don't want 3 more---only 1 more!

Mini's:
Black Jade
Cinnamon Girl
Daddy Frank
Denver's Dream
Incognito
Irresistible
Jean Kennealley
Rainbow's End

HT's, Floribundas, Grandifloras:
About Face
Bride's Dream
Ebb Tide
Folklore
Garden Director Bartje Miller (Dark Night)
Harlequin
Jude the Obscure
Kanegem
Koko Loco
Memorial Day
Neptune
New Zealand
Over the Moon
Paradise
Paradise Found
Perfect Moment
Rock & Roll
Scentsational
St. Patrick
Table Mountain
Taboo (Barkarole)
Veterans' Honor

---Laura

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